---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/04/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Re: Kitfox Suber EA 81 (fox5flyer) 2. 03:51 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (fox5flyer) 3. 05:00 AM - Re: BACK IN THE AIR (Dacha) 4. 05:52 AM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (K&MCozik) 5. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (John W. Hart) 6. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 7. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Stored and crashed (michael paton) 8. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (Guy Buchanan) 9. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas (lkc@juno.com) 10. 11:35 AM - Re: Kitfox Suber EA 81 (mic thiessen) 11. 01:30 PM - Re: BACK IN THE AIR (Lynn Matteson) 12. 05:35 PM - Re: Re: Ethanol? (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:44 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Suber EA 81 Not enough info yet, but the small plastic bottle is probably not a factory product, although some install one to keep the breather condensation from making a mess on the bottom of the airplane. Generally, oil coming out the breather is a sign of too much oil in the tank or too much pressure pushing it out of the tank. Check your compression to see what it reads. Is yours "normally aspirated" or turbo? How many hours did you put on it before putting it away for the winter? Did you do any engine maintenance on it over the winter? Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 375+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: Barrie Hussey To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Suber EA 81 Purchased my first Fox last Oct and was just getting comfortable when an early winter put it in the hanger. Summer's back so time for oil change. I checked it first and noted the small plastic bottle over the end of the breather tube was approx. half full. (3 oz) I emptied it and ck the oil which was down but pleanty to warm it up before draining. After startup (first this year) the oil pressure was holding only 20psi not in the green. A full power run up was not done but when the temp reached 180 it was shut down and moved back in to change the oil. The cowls were off and noticible oil on the rad and sprayed all over from the prop wash. Oil was also noted where I had started up ( 6' sq patch). Again the bottle on the breather was just about full. The NSI manual states in trouble shooting to change the oil if the pressure is low and top up, which I'm going to do, however the bottle on the breather has me puzzled. Seems like putting an umberella over your sundial. If air is alllowed to go both ways and the bottle was over half full it would draw the crap into the tank/engine. So far the oil has been drained ( approx 3 liters)(some sludge in drain tube when first opened) and I'm going to pick up another filter wrench and continue. I'm new at this and would appreciate any advice or link referals so I get this done right. Barrie Hussey (Mira Fox in Nova Scotia) bj.hussey@ns.sympatico.cam ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:35 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas Check out that gross weight! Deke do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "rcsfca" Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:35 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas > > The plane was for sale, as noted above. > > Here's the link to the ad in MyPlane.com: > > http://www.myplane.com/ad/1072#%20self > > > Rich Cunningham > Model IV - 1200 - 912 > SF East Bay > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186159#186159 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:53 AM PST US From: "Dacha" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BACK IN THE AIR Lynn, Yes we do get wing sprints or outlaws here too. Just had the off road truck races here last weekend, two days of them. Had a big crowd. Forgot to mention that I do have my own strip. Two runways, one 9-27 1200 with no obstacles, 6-24 is 1450 no obstacles. Smoothest grass runway around. LeRoy ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:12 AM PST US From: K&MCozik Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? Yeah, we do have E85 around here and that is what I was thinking. Kevin C Series 6-7 Rotax 914 Czech floats Laingsburg MI On Tue Jun 3 23:34 , Jim_and_Lucy Chuk sent: > > >Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible that that is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn > >> From: kcozik@cablespeed.com >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? >> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 -0400 >> >> >> >> I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They >> were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get >> them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. >> >> Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it >> doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of >> additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers. >> >> Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I >> helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger >> since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all. >> >> Kevin C >> Series 6-7 >> Rotax 914 >> Czech floats >> Laingsburg MI >> >> On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' sent: >> >> > >> >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox >> alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks >> have not fallen apart yet. >> >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com >> > >> >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem >> quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of >> planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the >> sky yet nor have the tanks melted. >> > >> > GO FIGURE !!!!!!! >> > >> > >> >Dave >> > >> >-------- >> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada >> >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info >> >http://www.cfisher.com/ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Read this topic online here: >> > >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127 >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other groups to join you on Windows Live Messenger. Add them now! > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:22 AM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? If you replace "o" rings made from buna or nitrile compounds with "o" rings made from Viton, they will not deteriorate as quickly in auto fuel. John Hart KF IV Wilburton, OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 1:14 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? > From: K&MCozik [kcozik@cablespeed.com] > Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. Kevin, for information, I had to change both o-rings on my drains on my model 3 from 1993 and I have never used fuel with ethanol. At the time of the leakage, the tanks had only been used for two-stroke oil-gas mixture. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 


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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:26 AM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? If you get a sample of the fuel and do the 9-1 mixture with fuel/water, it should show up real easy as being mostly alcohol. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn> From: kcozik@cablespeed.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject : RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol?> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 08:49:18 -0400> > -- we do have E85 around here and that is what I was thinking.> > Kevin C> Ser ies 6-7> Rotax 914> Czech floats> Laingsburg MI> > > On Tue Jun 3 23:34 , J im_and_Lucy Chuk sent:> > >> >> >> >> >> >Do you have E-85 fuel (85% alcohol) in your area? If so, is it possible that that > is what you have in your tank? Just a thought. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn> >> >> From: kcozik@cablespeed.com> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol?> >> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:38:22 eed.com>> >> > >> > >> I removed the tank drain today so I could take a clo ser look and to clean. They > >> were covered with sticky resin and were al most impossible to push. When I did get > >> them to open, they wouldn't cl ose. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. > >> > >> Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it > >> doesn't se em to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level > of > >> additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers.> >> > >> Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 sh ipped around 1993. I > >> helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger > >> since. When I checked the tank this m orning, no sign of damage at all.> >> > >> Kevin C> >> Series 6-7> >> Rotax 914> >> Czech floats> >> Laingsburg MI> >> > >> On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave ve" dave@cfisher.com>> >> >> >> >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox > >> alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks > >> have not fallen apart yet . > >> >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com> > > >> >> >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as i t does seem > >> quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering st age. I have dozens of > >> planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta > the > >> sky yet nor have the tanks melted . > >> >> >> > GO FIGURE !!!!!!!> >> >> >> >> >> >Dave> >> >> >> >--------> >> >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada> >> >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info> >> >h ttp://www.cfisher.com/> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >Read this topic online here:> >> >> >> >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#1861 27> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > > > > >> > > >> > >> > >Now you can invite friends from Facebook and other gr oups to join you on Windows > Live=99 Messenger. Add them now!> >> >> >> >> ===> > > _________________________________________________________________ Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback. http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=s rchpaysyouback ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:21 AM PST US From: michael paton Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Stored and crashed Hi all, I am in Zambia ,africa and had not used my S5 for a few months that I was in France, then I came home for a week in October last year and was looking forward to my flying. I cannot remember anything about return or crash , but aparrently I had been air born about 30-40 minuted before the engine stopped and I went down ,aparently because tanks where empty there must have been a moisture buld up , but if I had seen anything in pre flight check I would not have flown, does anybody have any Ideas to cause ? K&MCozik wrote: I removed the tank drain today so I could take a closer look and to clean. They were covered with sticky resin and were almost impossible to push. When I did get them to open, they wouldn't close. Both rubber "o" rings were melted as well. Like others have said before, this seems to be a very isolated case where it doesn't seem to add up. Thanks to Tom I have a procedure for checking the level of additives which I'll do sometime this week. Hopefully we'll have some answers. Just for the record, My hangar mate has a model 4 1200 shipped around 1993. I helped him pour a can of auto fuel in it 2 weeks ago and it has sat in the hanger since. When I checked the tank this morning, no sign of damage at all. Kevin C Series 6-7 Rotax 914 Czech floats Laingsburg MI On Tue Jun 3 21:43 , 'dave' sent: > >If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks have not fallen apart yet. >If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com > >Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the sky yet nor have the tanks melted. > > GO FIGURE !!!!!!! > > >Dave > >-------- >Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada >Flying Videos and Kitfox Info >http://www.cfisher.com/ > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php\?p=186127#186127 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:03 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas At 03:46 AM 6/4/2008, you wrote: >Check out that gross weight! >Deke Check out that empty weight! That's got to be a record! Let's see, full tanks + 2x175# FAA occupants = 1534#. Big engine = forward CG. I wonder what his stall speed was? Ouch! Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:37 AM PST US From: "lkc@juno.com" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Crash in Texas I checked on that plane a very long time ago and from what I remember fr om talking with the 80 yr old owner it had previously sustained damage f rom a hard landing which was repaired and then had longer wing struts in stalled with different attach points on the wing. The owner boasted tha t it had two of everything and that he had registered it with a 1700lb g ross. I don't know how he kept the CG within limits without putting the two batteries way in the back which would cause additional stress on th e frame. Layne S5 EA81 ____________________________________________________________ Click for free info on college degrees. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieX4q8Xo3WG6jp8fTLJgnp fOhONKh3MDOmU9Ns0Nwgn4uDuT/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:55 AM PST US From: mic thiessen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Suber EA 81 Hi Barrie can you contact me off list please thanks mic wannaflyfox4@hotmail.com do not archive From: bj.hussey@ns.sympatico.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox -List: Kitfox Suber EA 81Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 22:24:44 -0300 Purchased my first Fox last Oct and was just getting comfortable when an ea rly winter put it in the hanger. Summer's back so time for oil change. I checked it first and noted the small plastic bottle over the end of the br eather tube was approx. half full. (3 oz) I emptied it and ck the oil whi ch was down but pleanty to warm it up before draining. After startup (firs t this year) the oil pressure was holding only 20psi not in the green. A f ull power run up was not done but when the temp reached 180 it was shut dow n and moved back in to change the oil. The cowls were off and noticible oi l on the rad and sprayed all over from the prop wash. Oil was also noted where I had started up ( 6' sq patch). Again the bottle on the breather wa s just about full. The NSI manual states in trouble shooting to change th e oil if the pressure is low and top up, which I'm going to do, however the bottle on the breather has me puzzled. Seems like putting an umberella ov er your sundial. If air is alllowed to go both ways and the bottle was ove r half full it would draw the crap into the tank/engine. So far the oil ha s been drained ( approx 3 liters)(some sludge in drain tube when first open ed) and I'm going to pick up another filter wrench and continue. I'm new a t this and would appreciate any advice or link referals so I get this done right. Barrie Hussey (Mira Fox in Nova Scotia) bj.hussey@ns.sympatico.cam _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:18 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: BACK IN THE AIR Thanks for the runway info (Guy will appreciate that we are finally talking airplanes, too : ) ) I do have to get Missouri on my list of states that I have flown into, so maybe a flying/racing trip is in the future for me. I land on my 1700 strip with plenty of room to spare, so yours will be no sweat....I think. Lynn p.s. My planned trip to Eldora didn't work out due to foul weather here (100' ceiling) for most of the day. On Jun 4, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Dacha wrote: > > Lynn, > Yes we do get wing sprints or outlaws here too. Just had the off > road truck > races here last weekend, two days of them. Had a big crowd. > Forgot to mention that I do have my own strip. Two runways, one > 9-27 1200 > with no obstacles, 6-24 is 1450 no obstacles. Smoothest grass > runway around. > LeRoy > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:45 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? Gotta be that Ontario, Canajun gas!!! :-) noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:14 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Ethanol? If you missed my last post I use well over 1000 gallons a year in my 582 Kitfox alone in the wingtanks. We have had ethanol in our gas for 2 years. My tanks have not fallen apart yet. If and when they do I will order new ones here www.wingtanks.com Kevin had an incident and I am sure there is an answer for it as it does seem quite isolated. I see it as still in the fear mongering stage. I have dozens of planes in my strip weekly and they all use auto gas and none have fallen outta the sky yet nor have the tanks melted. GO FIGURE !!!!!!! Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186127#186127 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.