Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (darinh)
2. 03:41 AM - Re: Much foward stick on climbout (Southern Skies)
3. 06:28 AM - Re: Re: Much foward stick on climbout (Noel Loveys)
4. 07:49 AM - Re: Much foward stick on climbout (Tom Jones)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (mikeperkins)
6. 08:07 AM - Brake Problems (SkySteve)
7. 08:48 AM - Re: Model II Cabin Vents (Don McIntosh)
8. 08:56 AM - Re: Brake Problems (Lynn Matteson)
9. 09:59 AM - Re: Brake Problems (Guy Buchanan)
10. 10:27 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (n85ae)
11. 10:56 AM - Re: Brake Problems (jdmcbean)
12. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Much foward stick on climbout (Gary Glasgow)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (SUE MICHAELS)
14. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (Noel Loveys)
15. 01:20 PM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (n85ae)
16. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (Noel Loveys)
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
Well, you all hit it on the head. It was a squelch issue with the radio. This
will show how much of a novice I am but I didn't even realize the radio had an
internal squelch setting...I knew my intercom did but not the radio. I busted
out my manual and found the squelch setting menu - it was set at 0 so I turned
it one increment at a time and by the time I hit 3 the static was only intermittent...by
5 it was completely gone. Made a radio check and all is working
great.
Guy, my thinking is that the airframe acts as a large ground plane also.
Well, problem fixed...on to the next one whatever it might be. Thanks guys!
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Final Assembly)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188568#188568
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| Subject: | Re: Much foward stick on climbout |
Did the weight and balance, found the CG to be at 14.97 inches empty and 15.29
inches loaded. That seems too far aft. A little computation showed that adding
6 lbs up front will bring everything 1 inch forward. The 2 blade wood prop only
weighs 6 lbs so I was hoping to find a heavier (3 blade) prop that weighs a
total of 12 lbs. Anybody have ideas on a "heavy" prop (GSC, Warp, Ivo?)
Chris Bowles
KF 3 N727PD
Rotax 582
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Much foward stick on climbout |
You want to be careful installing a heavy prop. Make sure it is inside the weights
and moment of rotation allowed for your PSRU.
Maybe a small tool kit installed under the engine would be the cats *$$.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern Skies
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
Did the weight and balance, found the CG to be at 14.97 inches empty and 15.29
inches loaded. That seems too far aft. A little computation showed that adding
6 lbs up front will bring everything 1 inch forward. The 2 blade wood prop only
weighs 6 lbs so I was hoping to find a heavier (3 blade) prop that weighs a
total of 12 lbs. Anybody have ideas on a "heavy" prop (GSC, Warp, Ivo?)
Chris Bowles
KF 3 N727PD
Rotax 582
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| Subject: | Re: Much foward stick on climbout |
chris(at)southernskies.ne wrote:
> Did the weight and balance, found the CG to be at 14.97 inches empty and 15.29
inches loaded. That seems too far aft. A little computation showed that adding
6 lbs up front will bring everything 1 inch forward. The 2 blade wood prop
only weighs 6 lbs so I was hoping to find a heavier (3 blade) prop that weighs
a total of 12 lbs. Anybody have ideas on a "heavy" prop (GSC, Warp, Ivo?)
> Chris Bowles
> KF 3 N727PD
> Rotax 582
Chris, my spread sheet weight and balance program shows the model 3 aft CG limit
to be 14.28 inches. Does this match your information? My spread sheet may
be wrong on that. The flight characteristics you describe in your first post
are consistent with this however. I think you should do some more investigating.
A kitfox built even close to the book should not have a CG problem. Did you do
the calculation for the loaded CG without the BRS? I am just wondering if there
is some more hidden weight in the tail somewhere.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188591#188591
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
Glad your problem was fixed with squelch. You folks are good. I've read some of
the other posts and would like to I'll reply to the ground plane issue. I've
done some RF design and antenna design in my professional life, and have also
installed antennas on airplanes, including a couple of Kitfoxes.
A ground plane is definitely necessary. It should be a metal plate where the diameter
is at least as wide as the antenna is long. The antenna should be mounted
very close to the center of the plate, no matter what size it is.
The ground plane is the "RF signal ground reference." It's not like a DC power
ground such as aircraft ground. Aircraft antennas are designed specifically to
be fastened to a metal plate. So the frame tubing does not make a good ground.
It's not because it's a "bad" ground, but because the antenna is simply not
designed to work with it.
With ground planes, size DOES matter, but for a Comm antenna, you can get away
with a plate that's about a foot in diameter. Bigger is better, up to three feet
in diameter, but mine is 10" and works fine. However, it should be as thick
as practical, though, up to 1/8" thick. (Yes, thickness matters, too. Aluminum
foil is too thin, but 1/16" thick sheet stock works fine. Aluminum or steel
window screen isn't as good as 1/16" stock, but it will work if you need to get
around corners, but it's not my first choice.) The ground plane can be square,
but go ahead and trim the corners to somewhat of an octagon shape because the
excess beyond a circle is just extra weight and none of us like sharp edges.
It is not necessary to connect the ground plane to the aircraft ground. In fact
don't even bother because it has a better chance of hurting signal strength rather
than helping. The ground plane is connected to the radio through the antenna
and the co-ax cable, so just let it "float."
Between the antenna base and the mounting location, make sure there's no paint
or primer. You might even do a little cleaning of both the antenna base and the
sheet stock to get good metal-to-metal contact, not oxide to oxide. Don't put
a gasket between the antenna base and the sheet - if you need weather-proofing,
put sealant around the antenna base. They tell you also not to paint the antenna.
That's because the RF signal doesn't get through many of the pigments
(acts like shielding) and can also actually "short out" the RF signal to the airframe.
I put my ELT antenna inside my Kitfox airframe, just hanging upside-down from a
6" diameter plate right behind the seat. It works quite well (it's been accidentally
tested by satellites). My Comm antenna is mounted outside, hanging down
from the fuselage with a 10" diameter plate for a ground plane. It works fine,
too. I cut a hole in the fabric for the antennal base so it could directly
contact the metal ground plane.
As an aside, I've made my own transponder antenna for about $3 per Jim Weir's write-up.
I've also made fiberglass-and-copper antennas for $5 according to his
articles and they work great. Some don't require ground planes, either. His articles
are a great do-it-yourself antenna resource.
- Mike Perkins
Kitfox N175KF
Havana, Illinois
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188595#188595
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I am having some brake problems. I have new Grove 6" wheels, new Grove disc brakes,
new Matco individual brake cylinders on all 4 pedals (pilot & passenger
sides have brakes) , a master cylinder and new steel braided brake lines.
When I apply brakes to turn (or make a correction to stay going straight), I have
to apply pressure with my feet to both brake pedals to get brake pressure.
then press harder on the brake I want to engage while lessening the pressure
on the opposite brake. In other words, to apply the right brake I have to apply
pressure to both brake pedals. Then, while applying additional pressure to
the right brake pedal I release an equal amount of pressure from the left brake
pedal.
Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal to turn right
and push on the left pedal to turn left. Is this situation common? Or do I
have a screwed up mess?
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 134 - 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188596#188596
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| Subject: | Re: Model II Cabin Vents |
If the Model II air vents you are talking about are NACA style vents, then check
vansaircraft.com (the RV site). They have vent systems and parts there that
should work great.
--------
Don McIntosh
Kitfox Series 7 under construction
Jabiru 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188602#188602
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Problems |
Must be screwed up somewhere. I followed the routing diagram when
hooking mine up (Matco wheel cyls, and Cleveland masters) and have no
such problems. You should check with Matco, I would think, to get
their input on the correct routing of the lines, being as how their
masters are involved. The type of wheel cylinders shouldn't make any
difference, unless the masters and the wheel cyls are incompatible
due to size. I'm guessing the "goes-intas" and "goes-outtas" are
mixed up somehow. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 19, 2008, at 11:04 AM, SkySteve wrote:
>
> I am having some brake problems. I have new Grove 6" wheels, new
> Grove disc brakes, new Matco individual brake cylinders on all 4
> pedals (pilot & passenger sides have brakes) , a master cylinder
> and new steel braided brake lines.
>
> When I apply brakes to turn (or make a correction to stay going
> straight), I have to apply pressure with my feet to both brake
> pedals to get brake pressure. then press harder on the brake I
> want to engage while lessening the pressure on the opposite brake.
> In other words, to apply the right brake I have to apply pressure
> to both brake pedals. Then, while applying additional pressure to
> the right brake pedal I release an equal amount of pressure from
> the left brake pedal.
>
> Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal
> to turn right and push on the left pedal to turn left. Is this
> situation common? Or do I have a screwed up mess?
>
> --------
> Steve Wilson
> Huntsville, UT
> Kitfox Model 134 - 85DD
> 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
> Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188596#188596
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Brake Problems |
At 08:04 AM 6/19/2008, you wrote:
>Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal
>to turn right and push on the left pedal to turn left. Is this
>situation common? Or do I have a screwed up mess?
You have a screwed up mess. ;-) What happens when you push just one?
(It sounds a little like they're cross-connected.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
Providing you do a good installation, with good grounds, etc. the airframe
is plenty good all by itself as a ground plane. I had a friendly controller at
our airport who I did a series of radio checks with and he was still reading
me loud and clear at 100 miles out. I have a KX-155 with a RA Miller
comm antenna (I think it's a 529)
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188626#188626
Message 11
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Steve,
Give us a shout...
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SkySteve
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 9:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake Problems
I am having some brake problems. I have new Grove 6" wheels, new Grove disc
brakes, new Matco individual brake cylinders on all 4 pedals (pilot &
passenger sides have brakes) , a master cylinder and new steel braided brake
lines.
When I apply brakes to turn (or make a correction to stay going straight), I
have to apply pressure with my feet to both brake pedals to get brake
pressure. then press harder on the brake I want to engage while lessening
the pressure on the opposite brake. In other words, to apply the right
brake I have to apply pressure to both brake pedals. Then, while applying
additional pressure to the right brake pedal I release an equal amount of
pressure from the left brake pedal.
Of course, I would like to be able to just push on the right pedal to turn
right and push on the left pedal to turn left. Is this situation common?
Or do I have a screwed up mess?
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 134 - 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188596#188596
Checked by AVG.
8:00 AM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Much foward stick on climbout |
Chris
I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however, you should run a "C"
or "E" reduction unit, probably with a 3 to 1 ratio and follow their
install directions . The A And B reduction boxes are just too light.
Gary 4276M
582
----- Original Message -----
From: Southern Skies
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:37 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
<chris@southernskies.net>
Did the weight and balance, found the CG to be at 14.97 inches empty
and 15.29 inches loaded. That seems too far aft. A little computation
showed that adding 6 lbs up front will bring everything 1 inch forward.
The 2 blade wood prop only weighs 6 lbs so I was hoping to find a
heavier (3 blade) prop that weighs a total of 12 lbs. Anybody have ideas
on a "heavy" prop (GSC, Warp, Ivo?)
Chris Bowles
KF 3 N727PD
Rotax 582
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
Darin,=0A-=0ADid you use the standard antenna mounting plate that Kitfox
welded on your model 7.-I have the exact combo as you describe. So you ju
st mounted directly to the rectangular antenna mount and made adjustments t
o the A210??--=0A-=0AGeorge=0A-=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -
---=0AFrom: darinh <gerns25@netscape.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 3:04:27 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Comm A
s25@netscape.net>=0A=0AHere is a question for the masses.- I have my radi
o and antenna (ICOM A210 and Comant CI-121) installed and working wonderful
ly (transmission and reception is clear as a bell) except that when I am no
t receiving or transmitting, I have consistent static...remember transmissi
on and reception is clear.- When I disconnect the coax to the antenna and
it goes away.=0A=0ASo, I called and spoke with Comant tech department and
they said I need a ground plane (metal plate) that is 3' x 3' to reduce RF
static.- This seems huge to me what do you guys think?- I thought it mi
ght be an electrical ground issue but he said that the mounting screws to t
he metal airframe provide the electrical ground.- Any thoughts??- Has a
nyone put this large a grounding plane on their airframe?=0A=0A--------=0AD
arin Hawkes=0ASeries 7 (Final Assembly)=0A914 Turbo=0AKaysville, Utah=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view
===================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
Right on Mike:
I did the calculation (300/Center Freq)/4 = the normal length of the
antenna (23 in convert from meters)
Optimal minimum size of the ground plane should be around 46in. Which I'm
the first to admit is overkill. Com antennas are vertically polarized which
gives good Omni directional coverage. Having a good ground plane will help
you get the best possible signal, Rx and TX.
My advice has always been to use foil under the skin as a ground plane but
one poster here mentioned fly screen which is a lot more durable just make
sure you don't use nylon screen :-).
As I'm sure you know most problems with Com radios can be traced back to
corrosion if the antenna installation... A word to the wise, keep it clean.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mikeperkins
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 12:27 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size?
<michael.perkins@rauland.com>
Glad your problem was fixed with squelch. You folks are good. I've read some
of the other posts and would like to I'll reply to the ground plane issue.
I've done some RF design and antenna design in my professional life, and
have also installed antennas on airplanes, including a couple of Kitfoxes.
A ground plane is definitely necessary. It should be a metal plate where the
diameter is at least as wide as the antenna is long. The antenna should be
mounted very close to the center of the plate, no matter what size it is.
The ground plane is the "RF signal ground reference." It's not like a DC
power ground such as aircraft ground. Aircraft antennas are designed
specifically to be fastened to a metal plate. So the frame tubing does not
make a good ground. It's not because it's a "bad" ground, but because the
antenna is simply not designed to work with it.
With ground planes, size DOES matter, but for a Comm antenna, you can get
away with a plate that's about a foot in diameter. Bigger is better, up to
three feet in diameter, but mine is 10" and works fine. However, it should
be as thick as practical, though, up to 1/8" thick. (Yes, thickness matters,
too. Aluminum foil is too thin, but 1/16" thick sheet stock works fine.
Aluminum or steel window screen isn't as good as 1/16" stock, but it will
work if you need to get around corners, but it's not my first choice.) The
ground plane can be square, but go ahead and trim the corners to somewhat of
an octagon shape because the excess beyond a circle is just extra weight and
none of us like sharp edges.
It is not necessary to connect the ground plane to the aircraft ground. In
fact don't even bother because it has a better chance of hurting signal
strength rather than helping. The ground plane is connected to the radio
through the antenna and the co-ax cable, so just let it "float."
Between the antenna base and the mounting location, make sure there's no
paint or primer. You might even do a little cleaning of both the antenna
base and the sheet stock to get good metal-to-metal contact, not oxide to
oxide. Don't put a gasket between the antenna base and the sheet - if you
need weather-proofing, put sealant around the antenna base. They tell you
also not to paint the antenna. That's because the RF signal doesn't get
through many of the pigments (acts like shielding) and can also actually
"short out" the RF signal to the airframe.
I put my ELT antenna inside my Kitfox airframe, just hanging upside-down
from a 6" diameter plate right behind the seat. It works quite well (it's
been accidentally tested by satellites). My Comm antenna is mounted outside,
hanging down from the fuselage with a 10" diameter plate for a ground plane.
It works fine, too. I cut a hole in the fabric for the antennal base so it
could directly contact the metal ground plane.
As an aside, I've made my own transponder antenna for about $3 per Jim
Weir's write-up. I've also made fiberglass-and-copper antennas for $5
according to his articles and they work great. Some don't require ground
planes, either. His articles are a great do-it-yourself antenna resource.
- Mike Perkins
Kitfox N175KF
Havana, Illinois
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188595#188595
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
The ground plane does not need to be a plate, the tubing itself works fine.
Think about a simple dipole antenna, which could be made from splitting
the coax and point the center conductor ~21" in one direction and the
shield in the other. This is a really basic antenna, but it would work
plenty fine for Comm. If you attach to the airframe and aren't getting
good reception - 99.99% of the time it can be traced back to a poor
connection OR a piece of bad equipment. Seriously you'll simply not
find a case where the airframe ALONE as a ground plane causes any
problems.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188660#188660
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
First of all what you say will work... I've done it many times on many
different bands...BUT Coax is unbalanced line so to get the most out of it
you should use a balun (Balanced-unbalanced) which is similar to a
transformer. One thing you have missed is on the dipole the two radiators
are 180deg to each other. With the vertical antenna the ground plane is 90
degrees to the radiator. The better the ground plane the better the signal.
This is not to say that you can't get reasonable use out of the frame of the
plane but at a hundred miles out you will probably find the reception better
in one direction than the other. The ground plane will help ensure optimal
operation in all directions.
I agree with you that over 90% of the time com problems are easily traced to
corrosion (bad grounds) unfortunately these problems can compound
themselves and end up over heating the final RF amplifiers in the
transmitter section of your radio. Except for that I'd say close to 100% of
problems can be traced to corrosion somewhere in the antenna circuit.
0.01%of the time faults can be caused by vibration and faulty power supply.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 5:47 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size?
The ground plane does not need to be a plate, the tubing itself works fine.
Think about a simple dipole antenna, which could be made from splitting
the coax and point the center conductor ~21" in one direction and the
shield in the other. This is a really basic antenna, but it would work
plenty fine for Comm. If you attach to the airframe and aren't getting
good reception - 99.99% of the time it can be traced back to a poor
connection OR a piece of bad equipment. Seriously you'll simply not
find a case where the airframe ALONE as a ground plane causes any
problems.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188660#188660
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