Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:07 AM - Re: Much foward stick on climbout (Southern Skies)
     2. 06:59 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (n85ae)
     3. 08:14 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (darinh)
     4. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: Much foward stick on climbout (mscotter@comcast.net)
     5. 09:20 AM - Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Kyle)
     6. 10:04 AM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (RAY Gignac)
     7. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (Noel Loveys)
     8. 11:16 AM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Guy Buchanan)
     9. 11:21 AM - Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (n85ae)
    10. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message) (mscotter@comcast.net)
    11. 08:47 PM - Flutter of flaperons (James Shumaker)
    12. 08:48 PM - C Box and IVO props (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
    13. 10:07 PM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Kyle)
    14. 10:14 PM - Re: C Box and IVO props (Gary Glasgow)
 
 
 
Message 1
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Much foward stick on climbout | 
      
      
      This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1.  I will look for the Ivo Prop or a
      6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
      In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and that brought
      everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. There
      have also been some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous groundloop,
      perhaps adding a little weight.
      
      During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much less forward
      pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter caught my attention,
      unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before. The first time it
      was so brief that I thought it was just some turbulence that was messing with
      me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this
      was on long final, straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or
      little flaps deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked
      at the flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving
      up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short.
      I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local A&P
      after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged up just a little
      but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the ailerons can be
      moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at the trailing edge)  before
      the stick moves. There are a lot of joints so that may be normal.
      Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- seemed o.k.too,
      not much axial play- but side to side yes.
      
      Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The external counterweights
      are installed
      on the far outboard side.
      All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of the hangers
      move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and down together
      with the wing. 
      
      Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of a bearing
      surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in my opinion.
      
      
      Any ideas what else I should look at?
      
      Thanks for any advice-
      
      
      Chris Bowles
      KF 3 Rotax 582
      
      >Chris 
      >I think you will find that a medium  ground adjustable 3 blade  Ivo is 
      >pretty close to 12 Lb,   with this prop however, you should run a  "C"  
      >or "E" reduction  unit,  probably with a 3 to 1 ratio  and follow their 
      >install directions .  The A  And  B  reduction boxes are just too light.
      >
      >Gary 4276M
      >582 
      
      
Message 2
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? | 
      
      
      Noel -
      
      Well I'm just making the point that reality is that if you simply do a nice clean
      installation it will work,well. If you screw it up it will not work well. If you
      
      install a nice big ground plane, and fine tune the antenna length, consult
      the RF gods, etc, and do a bunch of incantations, it might possibly make
      a slightly noticeable difference, or not ....
      
      Radio choice makes a big difference as well. I have a Garmin GNC-250XL 
      and a Bendix King KX-155 in mine. The KX-155 definetly is the better
      radio for Comm. Both my antenna's are the same type, and even if I
      switch antenna's the King simply out perform's the Garmin.
      
      The Garmin is a very GOOD Gps/Comm and I would not get rid of it,
      but the KX-155 is a better workhorse radio. 
      
      A friend of mine spent half of last decade trying to get his Microair 760 
      to get good range, but never got where he was happy with it.
      
      Best Regards,
      Jeff
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188750#188750
      
      
Message 3
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? | 
      
      
      
      michaega(at)verizon.net wrote:
      > Darin, 
      >   
      > Did you use the standard antenna mounting plate that Kitfox welded on your model
      7. I have the exact combo as you describe. So you just mounted directly to
      the rectangular antenna mount and made adjustments to the A210??   
      >   
      > George 
      >   
      > 
      >  ---
      
      
      George,
      
      Yes, sort of.  My antenna came with a cork gasket and I didn't want to cut the
      fabric off the plate if I didn't need to.  According to Comant (maker of my antenna),
      the mounting bolts provide the required ground to the airframe.  Mine
      is working great right now and even inside my hangar (steel building) I get great
      reception and transmission so it appears to be working.  I have yet to fly
      the airplane so I don't know if I will how far I can receive from, although I
      can pick up KSLC tower and it is a good 25 miles away (this is also inside my
      hangar).  If you have any issues with your setup, I may be able to help seeing
      how I have spent the last 2 weeks looking at mine.
      
      --------
      Darin Hawkes
      Series 7 (Final Assembly)
      914 Turbo
      Kaysville, Utah
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188761#188761
      
      
Message 4
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Much foward stick on climbout | 
      
      
      Chris, I'm no expert but any play in those hangers mounted on the trailing edge
      would make me real nervous. I'd start there. Also, make sure the counterweights
      are not loose either. 
      
      -Mark Scott, Elkton, Md
      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
      
      To:kitfox-list@matronics.com
      Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
      
      
      
      This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1.  I will look for the Ivo Prop or a
      6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
      In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and that brought
      everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. There
      have also been some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous groundloop,
      perhaps adding a little weight.
      
      During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much less forward
      pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter caught my attention,
      unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before. The first time it
      was so brief that I thought it was just some turbulence that was messing with
      me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this
      was on long final, straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or
      little flaps deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked
      at the flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving
      up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short.
      I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local A&P
      after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged up just a little
      but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the ailerons can be
      moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
        the trailing edge)  before  the stick moves. There are a lot of joints so that
      may be normal.
      Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- seemed o.k.too,
      not much axial play- but side to side yes.
      
      Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The external counterweights
      are installed
      on the far outboard side.
      All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of the hangers
      move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and down together
      with the wing. 
      
      Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of a bearing
      surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in my opinion.
      
      
      Any ideas what else I should look at?
      
      Thanks for any advice-
      
      
      Chris Bowles
      KF 3 Rotax 582
      
      >Chris 
      >I think you will find that a medium  ground adjustable 3 blade  Ivo is 
      >pretty close to 12 Lb,   with this prop however, you should run a  "C"  
      >or "E" reduction  unit,  probably with a 3 to 1 ratio  and follow their 
      >install directions .  The A  And  B  reduction boxes are just too light.
      >
      >Gary 4276M
      >582 
      
      
Message 5
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help | 
      
      
      Hello All,
      
      I recently acquired my Kitfox IV 1200 w/912 UL. I haven't had it in the air yet.
      I needed to synchronize the carburetors and bleed the brakes. That done I'm
      ready to proceed. I'm a private pilot but don't have my TD endorsement yet. I
      didn't receive any performance numbers from the previous owner. Numbers like stall
      speeds, take-off speeds, approach to landing speeds, cruise speeds, take-off
      roll distances, landing roll distances, climb rates or any of the V speeds
      (Vx, Vy etc.).
      I was wondering if anyone could forward some of their numbers so at least I might
      have something just to use as a reference until I can establish my own. I have
      been taxiing up and down the grass strip, slowly building my speed. I've worked
      up to flying the tail and letting it settle back down while maintaining
      good directional control. I've had a Tail Dragger instructor with me some of the
      time but he also would like to at least see some numbers before we go on with
      more training.
      Any help would be appreciated. 
      I understand the numbers would not be specific to my plane, only for reference.
      
      Thanks,
      
      --------
      Kyle Dunn
      Eddyville, Kentucky
      Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax 
      1978 Cessna 172 N
      American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
      Rotorway Exec.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188772#188772
      
      
Message 6
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help | 
      
      
      I don't want to scare you, the Fox is fun to fly but very sensitive on the 
      controls! it is very easy to over correct.  Stall around 38, cruise depends
       90 to 95 is best but you will se 100 to 115, my approach speed were at 60 
      no flaps, never use them.  I lift off at 45, I find wheel landins work best
      .
      
      Ray> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help> From: kylehd
      unn@bellsouth.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:18:03 -0700> To: kitfox-list@m
      uth.net>> > Hello All,> > I recently acquired my Kitfox IV 1200 w/912 UL. I
       haven't had it in the air yet. I needed to synchronize the carburetors and
       bleed the brakes. That done I'm ready to proceed. I'm a private pilot but 
      don't have my TD endorsement yet. I didn't receive any performance numbers 
      from the previous owner. Numbers like stall speeds, take-off speeds, approa
      ch to landing speeds, cruise speeds, take-off roll distances, landing roll 
      distances, climb rates or any of the V speeds (Vx, Vy etc.).> I was wonderi
      ng if anyone could forward some of their numbers so at least I might have s
      omething just to use as a reference until I can establish my own. I have be
      en taxiing up and down the grass strip, slowly building my speed. I've work
      ed up to flying the tail and letting it settle back down while maintaining 
      good directional control. I've had a Tail Dragger instructor with me some o
      f the time but he also would like to at least see some numbers before we go
       on with more training.> Any help would be appreciated. > I understand the 
      numbers would not be specific to my plane, only for reference.> > Thanks,> 
      > --------> Kyle Dunn> Eddyville, Kentucky> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax > 1978
       Cessna 172 N> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax> Rotorway Exec.> > > > 
      > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php
      ===========> > > 
      _________________________________________________________________
      The i=92m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.- For now, give amongst yourselves.
      http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst
      
Message 7
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? | 
      
      
      I don't know about consulting the RF gods but Amen to what you said  LOL!
      
      Noel
      
      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
      [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
      Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:27 AM
      Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size?
      
      
      Noel -
      
      Well I'm just making the point that reality is that if you simply do a nice
      clean
      installation it will work,well. If you screw it up it will not work well. If
      you 
      install a nice big ground plane, and fine tune the antenna length, consult
      the RF gods, etc, and do a bunch of incantations, it might possibly make
      a slightly noticeable difference, or not ....
      
      Radio choice makes a big difference as well. I have a Garmin GNC-250XL 
      and a Bendix King KX-155 in mine. The KX-155 definetly is the better
      radio for Comm. Both my antenna's are the same type, and even if I
      switch antenna's the King simply out perform's the Garmin.
      
      The Garmin is a very GOOD Gps/Comm and I would not get rid of it,
      but the KX-155 is a better workhorse radio. 
      
      A friend of mine spent half of last decade trying to get his Microair 760 
      to get good range, but never got where he was happy with it.
      
      Best Regards,
      Jeff
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188750#188750
      
      
Message 8
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help | 
      
      
      At 09:18 AM 6/20/2008, you wrote:
      >Numbers like stall speeds, take-off speeds, approach to landing 
      >speeds, cruise speeds, take-off roll distances, landing roll 
      >distances, climb rates or any of the V speeds (Vx, Vy etc.).
      
      SPEEDS (MIAS)
      Vr              45
      Vx              53
      Vy              57
      Vs1             45
      1.2 Vs1 54
      Vs0             41
      1.2 Vs0 49
      Vfe             70
      Va              85
      Vno             99
      Vne             125
      Vglide          55 (600'/NM)
      
      These numbers are all at gross = 1200#. Subtract 5 mph from the stall 
      speeds for my typical flying weight of 925#. I flight plan for 80 mph 
      cruise, you'll see more like 105 - 115 mph. I rarely use flaps to 
      land and approach at no more than 50. (Otherwise I float a lot.) Take 
      off is 500'. (You should see closer to 200'.) Landing is anywhere 
      from 150' to 800', depending on how good you are. ;-)
      
      
      Guy Buchanan
      San Diego, CA
      K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 
      
      
Message 9
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? | 
      
      
      Noel -
      
      Ok, so we agree - The main things would be good clean installation, and
      muttered incantations (very important)? :)
      
      Consulting the RF gods, and ground plane mods - Can be considered
      optional?
      
      Regards,
      Jeff
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188804#188804
      
      
Message 10
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Kitfox Suber EA81 (2nd message) | 
      
      
      Kirk, you've prob. mentioned this before, but what is your empty weight with the
      stratus?
      What prop are you running with it?  Thanks,
      
      Mark Scott, Elkton, MD 
      
       -------------- Original message ----------------------
      From: "kirk hull" <kirkhull@kc.rr.com>
      > 
      > Ok here is a testimonial for Subaru.  It is a great engine. It is a little
      > heaver then a rotax but it is also much more reliable and cheaper.  I have a
      > 100hp stratus conversion on a classic 4 with over 150 trouble free hours on
      > it now.  We did have 1 small issue caused by a 3rd party shop in the first
      > 10 hours but stratus fixed the issue right away and we have had no issues
      > since.  205AK has gone from Kansas city to Oshkosh and all over Kansas
      > almost to Colorado and climbed to 10000 ft with no problems.  It starts on
      > the first bump even in the winter and with a heater core in the cabin AK was
      > one of the few airplanes flying all year (even night flights in January at 0
      > deg).  Pictures of the engine can be found on my EAA website at 
      > WWW.roosterville612.org on the member projects page /al and kirks Kitfox.
      > Best of all it sounds like an airplane engine not a lawn mower like the
      > rotax
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
Message 11
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Flutter of flaperons | 
      
      Chris=0AIf the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken.- 
      55 is slow for flutter to show up.- If you have the counter weights this 
      is the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights.- How fa
      st was the flutter?=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFr
      om: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.co
      m=0ASent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much
      Skies <chris@southernskies.net>=0A=0AThis Rotax 582 does have the C Box wit
      h 3:1.- I will look for the Ivo Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!=0AIn
       the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and that br
      ought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. 
      There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous
       groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.=0A=0ADuring yesterdays flight 
      after the CG fix everything went fine with much less forward pressure neede
      d however a brief period of aileron flutter caught my attention, unrelated 
      to the CG as it has happened once before. The first time it was so brief th
      at I thought it was just some turbulence that was messing with me but on ye
      sterdays flight it lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this was o
      n long final, straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or littl
      e flaps deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at
       the flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly movin
      g up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was shor
      t. I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a loca
      l A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged up
       just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the aile
      rons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe
       1/2 inch measuring at!=0A- the trailing edge)- before- the stick mov
      es. There are a lot of joints so that may be normal.=0ARemoved the linkage 
      completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- seemed o.k.too, not much
       axial play- but side to side yes.=0A=0ABoth ailerons have a few dings and 
      a few areas of loose foam. The external counterweights are installed=0Aon t
      he far outboard side.=0AAll the rib hangers have the thin metal plates inst
      alled but a couple of the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled a
      nd a little up and down together with the wing. =0A=0AWhere the aileron rod
       passes through the turtledeck there is not much of a bearing surface. Just
       some nylon that doesn't provide much support in my opinion. =0A=0AAny idea
      s what else I should look at?=0A=0AThanks for any advice-=0A=0A=0AChris Bow
      les=0AKF 3 Rotax 582=0A=0A>Chris =0A>I think you will find that a medium-
       ground adjustable 3 blade- Ivo is =0A>pretty close to 12 Lb,- with thi
      s prop however, you should run a- "C"- =0A>or "E" reduction- unit,-
       probably with a 3 to 1 ratio- and follow their =0A>install directions .
      - The A- And- B- reduction boxes are just too light.=0A>=0A>Gary 42
      -========================
      
Message 12
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | C Box and IVO props | 
      
      FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive. 
      The 3:1 ratio causes harmonic vibration with the three bladed prop 
      damaging the electric motor and gears. (I went thru this personally) 
      
      I ended up going to the IVO IFA 2 bladed medium prop as recommended by IVO 
      (which is probably going to give you the weight you need) .
      
      That combination worked great, gave me great performance and the sound of 
      that prop was like a lycombing.
      
      For what it's worth
      
      Gary
      
      Gary Algate
      Classic 4 Jab2200
      Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
      
      
      This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. 
      Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by 
      persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If 
      you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by 
      telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender 
      does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of 
      this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
      
      
      Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
      Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
      20/06/2008 09:47 PM
      Please respond to
      kitfox-list@matronics.com
      
      To
      kitfox-list@matronics.com
      cc
      
      Subject
      Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
      
      
      <chris@southernskies.net>
      
      This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1.  I will look for the Ivo Prop 
      or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
      In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and that 
      brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS 
      installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection from 
      the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
      
      During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much 
      less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter 
      caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before. 
      The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some turbulence 
      that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a little 
      longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight and level 
      at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed. Just started 
      shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons and wing while 
      it was happening and both were visibly moving up and down. Made some S 
      turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I very closely 
      inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local A&P after 
      landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged up just a 
      little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the ailerons 
      can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
        the trailing edge)  before  the stick moves. There are a lot of joints 
      so that may be normal.
      Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- 
      seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
      
      Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The external 
      counterweights are installed
      on the far outboard side.
      All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of 
      the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and 
      down together with the wing. 
      
      Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of a 
      bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in my 
      opinion. 
      
      Any ideas what else I should look at?
      
      Thanks for any advice-
      
      
      Chris Bowles
      KF 3 Rotax 582
      
      >Chris 
      >I think you will find that a medium  ground adjustable 3 blade  Ivo is 
      >pretty close to 12 Lb,   with this prop however, you should run a  "C" 
      >or "E" reduction  unit,  probably with a 3 to 1 ratio  and follow their 
      >install directions .  The A  And  B  reduction boxes are just too light.
      >
      >Gary 4276M
      >582 
      
      
Message 13
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help | 
      
      
      Hello again,    :) 
      
      Thank you very much for the numbers. With these I feel a lot more comfortable going
      forth. 
      And thanks for the advice on the sensitivity of the control inputs. From what I
      had read in the past, I figured the controls were considerably more sensitive
      than my 172.
      By the way my plane is not the speedster version. 
      
      Thanks again,
      
      --------
      Kyle Dunn
      Eddyville, Kentucky
      Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax 
      1978 Cessna 172 N
      American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
      Rotorway Exec.
      
      
      Read this topic online here:
      
      http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188859#188859
      
      
Message 14
| 					INDEX |  Back to Main INDEX |  
| 				PREVIOUS |  Skip to PREVIOUS Message |  
| 					NEXT |  Skip to NEXT Message |  
| 	LIST |  Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |  
| 		SENDER |  Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |  
  | 
      
      
| Subject:  | Re: C Box and IVO props | 
      
      While Ivo has lots of info on their site  ---which is  
      http://www.ivoprop.com/       It is always best to just call them and 
      get the info from them directly as to which prop they will recommend for 
      each individual . 
      
      They steered me away from the ultralight model when I called.
      
      Seems funny that the 3 blade ultralight  prop on a C box is a no no  
      --and a medium  is OK ?
      
      Gary A,----  I'm glad you brought this up,   as I had forgot about the 
      ultralight model,  and a friend has a new 
      In flight adjustable ultralight prop  on his plane which is still in the 
      testing stages ( only a couple of hours flight time so far)   Need to 
      call him and have him confer with Ivo before. he has a problem.  
      
      On mine,  I use a 72 inch 3 blade medium on a 3 to one gear box, and 
      would like to use it with my  3.47-1 E drive , however,  a service 
      bulletin #17 forbids that  with the side rail motor mounts  I use. 
        Rotax engineers recommend the side rail mount only for the c box at a 
      3-1 ratio.  
       Haven't found out why yet.  
      
      Gary 
      N4276M
        ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: gary.algate@sandvik.com 
        To: kitfox-list@matronics.com 
        Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:45 PM
        Subject: Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props
      
      
        FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C 
      drive. The 3:1 ratio causes harmonic vibration with the three bladed 
      prop damaging the electric motor and gears. (I went thru this 
      personally) 
      
        I ended up going to the IVO IFA 2 bladed medium prop as recommended by 
      IVO (which is probably going to give you the weight you need) . 
      
        That combination worked great, gave me great performance and the sound 
      of that prop was like a lycombing. 
      
        For what it's worth 
      
        Gary
      
        Gary Algate
        Classic 4 Jab2200
        Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
      
      
        This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the 
      addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this 
      message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is 
      prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us 
      immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your 
      system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions 
      in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the 
      e-mail transmission. 
      
      
              Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net> 
              Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 
              20/06/2008 09:47 PM 
              Please respond to
              kitfox-list@matronics.com 
             To kitfox-list@matronics.com  
                    cc  
                    Subject Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout 
      
                    
      
             
      
      
      <chris@southernskies.net>
      
        This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1.  I will look for the Ivo 
      Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
        In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and 
      that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS 
      installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection 
      from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
      
        During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with 
      much less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron 
      flutter caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once 
      before. The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some 
      turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a 
      little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight 
      and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed. 
      Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons 
      and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and 
      down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I 
      very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local 
      A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged 
      up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the 
      ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
         the trailing edge)  before  the stick moves. There are a lot of 
      joints so that may be normal.
        Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings- 
      seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
      
        Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The 
      external counterweights are installed
        on the far outboard side.
        All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple 
      of the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up 
      and down together with the wing. 
      
        Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much 
      of a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support 
      in my opinion. 
      
        Any ideas what else I should look at?
      
        Thanks for any advice-
      
      
        Chris Bowles
        KF 3 Rotax 582
      
        >Chris 
        >I think you will find that a medium  ground adjustable 3 blade  Ivo 
      is 
        >pretty close to 12 Lb,   with this prop however, you should run a  
      "C"  
        >or "E" reduction  unit,  probably with a 3 to 1 ratio  and follow 
      their 
        >install directions .  The A  And  B  reduction boxes are just too 
      light.
        >
        >Gary 4276M
        >582 
      
      
        -
        -
                 -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
      
      
 
Other Matronics Email List Services
 
 
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
 
 
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
  
 |