Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Lynn Matteson)
2. 06:10 AM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (kirk hull)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? (Noel Loveys)
4. 06:54 AM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Kyle)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: C Box and IVO props (eskflyer)
6. 09:46 AM - Off Topic: Space Station----truly awesome pictures (Marco Menezes)
7. 10:15 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Lynn Matteson)
8. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Lynn Matteson)
9. 12:39 PM - New Model IV (Lowell Fitt)
10. 01:04 PM - Re: New Model IV (william Mills)
11. 01:54 PM - Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Kyle)
12. 04:50 PM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Rick)
13. 05:24 PM - Re: New Model IV (Randy Daughenbaugh)
14. 05:40 PM - Re: New Model IV (Danny)
15. 09:11 PM - Re: New Model IV (Maurice)
16. 09:44 PM - Re: New Model IV (mdkitfox@aol.com)
17. 10:16 PM - Re: New Model IV (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Your controls WILL be considerably more sensitive than the 172. My
instructor used to tell me that all that money that I spent on flight
training in a 172 just made my feet lazy, and now it was time to wake
them up! He calls the Kitfox a "thoroughbred."
I have a Speedster, so mine is probably a bit more sensitive than
yours, but even so, be ready for quickness as a result of control input.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:04 AM, Kyle wrote:
>
> Hello again, :)
>
> Thank you very much for the numbers. With these I feel a lot more
> comfortable going forth.
> And thanks for the advice on the sensitivity of the control inputs.
> From what I had read in the past, I figured the controls were
> considerably more sensitive than my 172.
> By the way my plane is not the speedster version.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188859#188859
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Something else you might want to do is get a copy of "kitfox pilot guide"
by Edward S Downs
This book has aprox info for the # you are wanting as well as a lot of other
good info.
I believe you can get it through Kitfox inc. If you don't have their #
you can just EMAIL john Mcbean on this list
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAY Gignac
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help
I don't want to scare you, the Fox is fun to fly but very sensitive on the
controls! it is very easy to over correct. Stall around 38, cruise depends
90 to 95 is best but you will se 100 to 115, my approach speed were at 60 no
flaps, never use them. I lift off at 45, I find wheel landins work best.
Ray
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help
> From: kylehdunn@bellsouth.net
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:18:03 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I recently acquired my Kitfox IV 1200 w/912 UL. I haven't had it in the
air yet. I needed to synchronize the carburetors and bleed the brakes. That
done I'm ready to proceed. I'm a private pilot but don't have my TD
endorsement yet. I didn't receive any performance numbers from the previous
owner. Numbers like stall speeds, take-off speeds, approach to landing
speeds, cruise speeds, take-off roll distances, landing roll distances,
climb rates or any of the V speeds (Vx, Vy etc.).
> I was wondering if anyone could forward some of their numbers so at least
I might have something just to use as a reference until I can establish my
own. I have been taxiing up and down the grass strip, slowly building my
speed. I've worked up to flying the tail and letting it settle back down
while maintaining good directional control. I've had a Tail Dragger
instructor with me some of the time but he also would like to at least see
some numbers before we go on with more training.
> Any help would be appreciated.
> I understand the numbers would not be specific to my plane, only for
reference.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188772#188772
>
>
>
>
>
>
&===================
>
>
>
_____
The i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves. Learn
More <http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size? |
As a ham radio operator I am, in theory at least, always trying to get the
ultimate out on my radios. This is not necessary in small planes. That is
the reason I totally agree with you on the necessity of a ground plane.
I've even used handhelds inside the 'Fox on a duck with decent results.
As an AME (Aircraft Maintenance Engineer) intern (Canada) I really
appreciate a nice clean installation and a nice clean interconnect diagram
for the scarce occasion that things go west J. Of course with only an
antenna connection there isn't a diagram needed.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Comm Antenna Plane - Size?
Noel -
Ok, so we agree - The main things would be good clean installation, and
muttered incantations (very important)? :)
Consulting the RF gods, and ground plane mods - Can be considered
optional?
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188804#188804
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Hey Lynn,
We meet again. I don't know if you remember or not but we met at Gilbertsville-Kentucky
Dam Airport when you were on your way to Hondo.
I was admiring your Kitfox when you came back to the airport to get some supplies
for the evening. We just talked briefly, you were in a hurry because your ride
was waiting.
Kirk,
Thanks for the suggestion. I have already ordered that Pilot's Guide.
It should be here today or the first of next week.
Thanks,
--------
Kyle Dunn
Eddyville, Kentucky
Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
1978 Cessna 172 N
American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
Rotorway Exec.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188884#188884
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can be used
with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on it and use the
2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems
, with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
Message 6
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| Subject: | Off Topic: Space Station----truly awesome pictures |
Wow!
After you open the link be sure and hit the F11 button, makes the pictures
high def.!
Some of these picture will take your breath away...
They are the best I have seen.
These are just in from the current (just landed) space mission. These pixs
are so good that it makes one feel as if you are there taking the pictures.
Maximize your viewing area by hitting the F11 button and enjoy.....
-http://www.texasjim.com/NASApix/NASA%20pix.htm
-
-
-
=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Hi Kyle-
I didn't remember your name, but I sure remember meeting you....that
was a real coincidence running into a "lister" there from the Kitfox
group. As I recall you were keeping a Cessna, I think it was, at the
Dam airport, right? Sorry I couldn't have stayed and talked more, but
I didn't want to inconvenience the shuttle driver who was kind enough
to bring me back to the plane for another load of camping necessities
from my plane. Man, that sure is a nice facility they have
there....free shuttle service whenever you need it (within their
hours of operation), a nice campground, and friendly folks. As luck
would have it, when they drove me around to look at prospective
campsites, I saw one that looked just fine and it was close to the
general store, and it turned out to be site number......(drum
roll)....3! Ta Da....
Nice reminiscing with ya, Kyle.
If any of you traveling folks want a nice place to fly into and stay,
this place has tent sites, as well as rooms and maybe cabins...not
sure of the cabins, though. My tent site was $18 for the night, and
no tie-down fee, either. The campground is about a mile or so away
from the airport, so the noise isn't much of a factor. And when it
came tim for me to leave, a call brought a shuttle right to my site,
even before they were officially open for business....wait....maybe
they were just glad to get rid of me. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 9:51 AM, Kyle wrote:
>
> Hey Lynn,
>
> We meet again. I don't know if you remember or not but we met at
> Gilbertsville-Kentucky Dam Airport when you were on your way to Hondo.
> I was admiring your Kitfox when you came back to the airport to get
> some supplies for the evening. We just talked briefly, you were in
> a hurry because your ride was waiting.
>
> Kirk,
> Thanks for the suggestion. I have already ordered that Pilot's Guide.
> It should be here today or the first of next week.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Interesting....is this because of the harmonics that would be set up
using a 3-blade with a 3:1 ratio? That is, the same blade hitting the
same cylinder every third time around? I seem to recall gear-trains
being set up with an odd number of teeth...called a "hunting tooth"
to keep the same tooth from hitting a particular spot every time
around. Is this the principle?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 11:53 AM, eskflyer wrote:
>
> FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C
> drive.
>
>
> This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but
> can be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700
> hours now on it and use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1
> or the 4.00-1 ratio with no problems , with the ivo
>
> --------
> FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
> 1220 Full Lotus
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
>
>
Message 9
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To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Hello again Lowell -
I cannot say how heart-warming it is to hear this. Also - nice gear!
Best regards to you and Kay -
Bill Mills - Castro Valley
Chinook/912 in progress at LVK
Still lurking after all these years
On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
> superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
> was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
> currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
> Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
> in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
> wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
> is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
> leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
> someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
> gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Lynn,
Yes, that's where I keep my 172.
Actually the facility at Gilbertsville-Kentucky Dam Airport is a pretty neat little
secret. It is a State Park with camping facilities, cabins for rent, restaurant
facilities, a full service marina and beach with boat rentals of all sizes
including house boats, 18 hole golf course, fishing and so forth.
As a matter of fact there are other restaurants in the area that offer shuttle
service to and from the airport.
For camping on the field there is no charge but yes to camp in the park campground
there is a charge.
I had thought that this location would be a wonderful place to host a Kitfox gathering.
It's centrally located to a lot of "listers". It's close to the same
distance from your area in the north, the gulf coast to the south and the east
coast.
Good to meet with you again even if it was on the thread.
Thanks,
--------
Kyle Dunn
Eddyville, Kentucky
Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
1978 Cessna 172 N
American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
Rotorway Exec.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188942#188942
Message 12
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| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
parachute. I am serious.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
Shumaker
Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
Chris
If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
was the flutter?
Jim Shumaker
----- Original Message ----
From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
<chris@southernskies.net>
This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
so that may be normal.
Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
external counterweights are installed
on the far outboard side.
All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
down together with the wing.
Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
my opinion.
Any ideas what else I should look at?
Thanks for any advice-
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
>Chris
>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
3D=======================
3D===========
Message 13
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Good news Lowell!
I like the looks of your gear. And the dimensions. And the weight. I can
assure you though that the Grove gear is tough!
Randy
Randy Daughenbaugh, N10NH
Black Hills of South Dakota, - Near Mount Rushmore
Home Strip, Grass Room in Hangar for visitors
Series 5/7 (7 Firewall Forward) 912S, Warp Drive Taper Tip
Gross Weight 1320 lbs, Flying since November 2004
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Hi lowell,
Evern though it's been a few years since we sold our Kitfox I still lurk on the
list so as to keep tabs?on the folks I came to know through it. ?It's good to
hear you have a project going again that will some day become an airplane to
fly. I'm a firm believer that one should never go too long without an airplane
project. The landing geaar look cool
Danny Melnik
F1 N14ZM
Rocket Factory
Melbourne, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Welcome back Lowell. You have been missed.
Maurice Fitzgerald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:33 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
> superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
> was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
> currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
> original.
> Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
> in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
> wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major
> mod
> is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an
> aluminum
> leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
> someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
> gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell,
Welcome back to the list.? It's great to hear you've returned to building.
Rick Weiss
Series V, still building, but there is light at the end of the tunnel!
-----Original Message-----
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 3:33 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:?
?
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying superceded
the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....?
?
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It was outfitted
for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am currently
working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original. Just finished
a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs
under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a wider stance and is a
bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod is the elimination of the
upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading
edge aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.?
?
Glad to be back and active.?
?
Lowell Fitt
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Welcome Back Lowell.- Always great to hear from you.=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A
=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 12:33:44 P
M=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV=0A=0ATo the list:=0A=0AI am back bul
ding again.- I never thought I would do it again since flying =0Asuperced
ed the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....=0A=0AThanks
to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.- It =0Aw
as outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.- I am
=0Acurrently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the origi
nal. =0AJust finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear.-
It comes =0Ain at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that.
- It has a =0Awider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.-
- The other major mod =0Ais the elimination of the upper false ribs, repl
acing them with an aluminum =0Aleading edge from the PVC leading edge aft t
o the stringer.- I hope to =0Asomeday actually begin working on the airpl
ane.- Pictures of the landing =0Agear attached.=0A=0AGlad to be back and
active.=0A=0ALowell Fitt =0A
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