Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:19 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
2. 03:36 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help (Lynn Matteson)
3. 03:42 AM - Re: New Model IV (Lynn Matteson)
4. 04:45 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (kr2@bellsouth.net)
5. 05:18 AM - Motor mount getting hot (nick4853)
6. 05:39 AM - Wing Strut Fairings (Dee Young)
7. 06:15 AM - Re: New Model IV (Catz631@aol.com)
8. 08:10 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Mnflyer)
9. 08:21 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (jdmcbean)
10. 08:56 AM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Southern Skies)
11. 09:16 AM - Re: Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Dee Young)
12. 09:31 AM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Mnflyer)
13. 09:38 AM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Mnflyer)
14. 09:38 AM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Rick)
15. 09:40 AM - Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. (Andrew Lawrence)
16. 10:42 AM - New member with UK-built Model II (Bob Brennan)
17. 10:50 AM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Lynn Matteson)
18. 10:58 AM - Rudder seems stiff (nick4853)
19. 11:09 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Lynn Matteson)
20. 11:17 AM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (kitfoxmike)
21. 11:18 AM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (Lynn Matteson)
22. 11:19 AM - C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (Dave)
23. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Noel Loveys)
24. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Noel Loveys)
25. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Dave)
26. 12:07 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Bob Brennan)
27. 12:14 PM - Re: New Model IV (Noel Loveys)
28. 12:49 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Tom Jones)
29. 01:06 PM - Re: Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Dee Young)
30. 01:14 PM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (nick4853)
31. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Bob Brennan)
32. 01:44 PM - Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. (dcsfoto)
33. 02:15 PM - Re: New Model IV (Lowell Fitt)
34. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. (Andrew Lawrence)
35. 03:25 PM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (Tom Jones)
36. 03:36 PM - Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
37. 05:18 PM - New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Bob Brennan)
38. 05:42 PM - Re: Motor mount getting hot (Guy Buchanan)
39. 05:42 PM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (Guy Buchanan)
40. 05:42 PM - Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (Guy Buchanan)
41. 05:48 PM - Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (Dave)
42. 05:54 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Guy Buchanan)
43. 06:09 PM - Re: Re: New member with UK-built Model II (James Shumaker)
44. 06:18 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Lynn Matteson)
45. 06:26 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Dee Young)
46. 06:34 PM - Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (Gary Glasgow)
47. 06:35 PM - Re: New Model IV (Lynn Matteson)
48. 06:48 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Sbennett3@aol.com)
49. 06:54 PM - Re: New Model IV (Sbennett3@aol.com)
50. 07:19 PM - Re: Motor mount getting hot (nick4853)
51. 07:22 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (A Smith)
52. 09:40 PM - Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Jeffrey Dill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with C
box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur with
the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox IV Performance Numbers Help |
Well, Kyle. there goes that secret......: ) As I recall, it was about
528 miles for me that first day of my trip, so you're right, it would
be pretty central and a nice place for a Kitfox gathering.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
do not archive
On Jun 21, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Kyle wrote:
>
> Lynn,
>
> Yes, that's where I keep my 172.
> Actually the facility at Gilbertsville-Kentucky Dam Airport is a
> pretty neat little secret. It is a State Park with camping
> facilities, cabins for rent, restaurant facilities, a full service
> marina and beach with boat rentals of all sizes including house
> boats, 18 hole golf course, fishing and so forth.
> As a matter of fact there are other restaurants in the area that
> offer shuttle service to and from the airport.
> For camping on the field there is no charge but yes to camp in the
> park campground there is a charge.
> I had thought that this location would be a wonderful place to host
> a Kitfox gathering. It's centrally located to a lot of "listers".
> It's close to the same distance from your area in the north, the
> gulf coast to the south and the east coast.
> Good to meet with you again even if it was on the thread.
>
> Thanks,
>
> --------
> Kyle Dunn
> Eddyville, Kentucky
> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
> 1978 Cessna 172 N
> American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
> Rotorway Exec.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188942#188942
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Hi Lowell-
Nice to hear from you.
It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the
shot, but it seems like there are more structural members within the
fuse of your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you
add some reinforcements?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> To the list:
>
> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
> airplane....
>
> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed
> kit. It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
> available. I am currently working on all the things I learned to
> wish I had on the original. Just finished a cabane attached
> compression spring landing gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under
> the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a wider stance and
> is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod is the
> elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an
> aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the
> stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
>
> Glad to be back and active.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> <Landing Gear 3.jpg>
> <Landing Gear 5.jpg>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Message 5
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| Subject: | Motor mount getting hot |
In my Model IV the starboard lower motor mount is getting cooked. I installed
a low hour used one about 7 hours ago but it shows signs of heat damage already.
I have a new set of bushings for the mount but don't want to put them on till
I can figure out why the starboard one is getting cooked. The only theory
I can come up with is that the air in the starboard side of the cowl is not getting
refreshed, due to the fact that the exhaust on the cowl is on the port
side. The mount castle nut is about a 1/4" above the muffler on both sides but
the port side shows no sign of damage. If anyone else has had this problem
or knows a solution please let me know.
Thank you,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189025#189025
Message 6
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| Subject: | Wing Strut Fairings |
I know this has been discussed a 100 times and I have searched the
archives with no direct answer. I believe I would like to cover my
struts. What is the simplest method of getting this done. I don't see
them listed on John and Debra's web site???
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell,
Good to have you back on the list! Did I tell you that I absolutely love
the elevator trim system you made for me? It's first class all the way! What a
difference in the aircraft!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Hi Dee, I just installed the PVC type about a month ago, they are by far the easiest
and simplest to install but weigh more than the balsa wood type, I started
out going that way but ended up with the PVC ones. I really like the looks
the increase in cruise was 5 to 7 mph.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189060#189060
Message 9
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| Subject: | Wing Strut Fairings |
Dee,
Give us a shout.. we have the PVC streamline strut material in
stock. We are also working on a catalog with a lot more items..
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:38 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Strut Fairings
I know this has been discussed a 100 times and I have searched the archives
with no direct answer. I believe I would like to cover my struts. What is
the simplest method of getting this done. I don't see them listed on John
and Debra's web site???
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did look the
plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very experienced Kitfox/Avid
owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going through the turtledeck
busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin bushings that have a
nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and will fix
that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a little
play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on how to get them
out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out? Will the foam cause
a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on the hinge.
They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to balance them so
they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
>hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
>was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
><chris@southernskies.net>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
>In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
>that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
>installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
>from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
>less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
>caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
>The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
>turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
>little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
>and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
>Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
>and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
>down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
>very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
>A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
>up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
>ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed
>on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
>a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
>my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>>Chris
>>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
>3D=======================
>3D===========
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Good news, thanks GB
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Mnflyer<mailto:gbsb2002@yahoo.com>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 9:07 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Strut Fairings
<gbsb2002@yahoo.com<mailto:gbsb2002@yahoo.com>>
Hi Dee, I just installed the PVC type about a month ago, they are by
far the easiest and simplest to install but weigh more than the balsa
wood type, I started out going that way but ended up with the PVC ones.
I really like the looks the increase in cruise was 5 to 7 mph.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189060#189060<http://forums
matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189060#189060>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
Hi Chris check the entire aileron linkage system any looseness or sloppiness, will
need to be removed, its most likely to be in the control linkage some where.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189072#189072
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Hi Dee I see you have a Model II so the struts are most likely 7/8" like mine the
PVC is designed of 1" what I did was wrap the struts with leading edge tape
(it was 6" wide and heavy duty) about every 24" and the PVC then snapped in place
nicely. If you go that way and want any more tips on installation just e
mail me.
--------
GB
MNFlyer
Flying a HKS Kitfox III
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189074#189074
Message 14
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| Subject: | Flutter of flaperons |
It is my understanding that the flaperons should be neutral balance. If
you don't already have balancers on the flap might consider the. Once on
you can add and remove lead to get a neutral balance. I would check with
the Beans for sure.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern
Skies
Sent: 2008-06-22 08:53
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
--> <chris@southernskies.net>
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did
look the plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very
experienced Kitfox/Avid owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going
through the turtledeck busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin
bushings that have a nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and
will fix that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a
little play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on
how to get them out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out?
Will the foam cause a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on
the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to
balance them so they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you
>can hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How
>fast was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
><chris@southernskies.net>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea! In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs
>of steel under the engine mount and that brought everything into the
>limits. The W&B was done with the BRS installed. There have also been
>some repairs done to the tailsection from the previous groundloop,
>perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with
>much less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron
>flutter caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened
>once before. The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just
>some turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it
>lasted a little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final,
>straight and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps
>deployed. Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the
>flapperons and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving
>up and down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was
>short. I very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together
>with a local A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed
>to be snugged up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real
>floppy but the ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch
>measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of
joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple
of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much
>of a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support
>in my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>>Chris
>>I think you will find that a medium ground adjustable 3 blade Ivo is
>>pretty close to 12 Lb, with this prop however,
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
>3D======================
>
>3D===========
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
Hi Guys,
I signed up here quite a while ago, but never posted. I have been looking for
a plane for about a year now, and had 2 partners bail out on me. So I am looking
for something inexpensive for myself, to use as a trainer. I missed out on
a deal yesterday on Ebay. I tired to use Esnipe to put in my bid at the last
second, and it failed completely. Had I bid manually I would have won. It
was a Kitfox 1 with 2 wings, and went for $7900.
So that is what I am looking for, a Kitfox 2 or a 1 with 2 wings, I would like
the 950 gross if possible. Does anyone know of one in decent shape, Rotax motor
OK as long as it is low to mid time, under $9K, and within 500 miles of Elmira,
NY? There is a nice Kitfox 1 on Barnstomers for $10K with trailer, which
would be great, except it is 2600 miles away in Oregon. Someone must have one
between here and there. :)
Thanks,
Andrew
Message 16
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II |
I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been monitoring it
for several days and am impressed with the wealth of knowledge and helpful
Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit about me - I got my PPL in the US
many years ago, training on a Tomahawk and doing business flying in
Cherokees mostly. I moved to the UK for a while and recently got the urge to
fly again - bought my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a
PPL) to rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I bought it,
with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100 hours since a rebuild
on the 582.
I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a 20ft
container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several questions that will
hopefully put it back into top shape first.
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a
steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad
repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is
loose and slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during
taking the wings off and putting them back on. After a run-up &taxi and a
post-flight inspection I discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was
extended into the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
goodness it was only a run-up!
My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the flaperon
be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal possibly epoxied in
place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if not how should it be secured?
What's the proper repair given that the end of the flaperon is now open?
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
I don't think you answered someone's question about balance
weights....do you even HAVE balance weights on the flaperons?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Southern Skies wrote:
> After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not
> balance on the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or
> do I need to balance them so they stay in any position?
>
> Thanks for all the help and advice!
>
> Chris Bowles
> KF 3 Rotax 582
Message 18
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| Subject: | Rudder seems stiff |
I bought my kitfox at the end of April. The plane had low times and was finished
back 1996 so it sat more than flew. I decided to replace the fuel lines firewall
forward new carb boots. I replaced the gsc with a warp drive. A friend
of mine who owns a model IV flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't
have my license yet. Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder
is really stiff at cruising speed. The rudder and stabilizer is not the airfoil
style and is not gap sealed. My friend who's plane has the speedster tail
said his rudder is alot easier than mine.
It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much pressure as these
are the older style that have not been gusseted. What is the best remedy? I
would like to make the rudder input easier. Or should I just deal with as this
is normal. I really appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.
Thanks again,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189084#189084
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
It sounds like the steel rod is an attempt to balance the flaperon?
Or is it actually a steel tube? A steel tube is used within the
flaperon...they call it the flaperon spar...and the flaperon hinges
pivot on it. But you say it is a rod, so my guess is an attempt to
balance the flaperon...got any pictures?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been
> monitoring it for several days and am impressed with the wealth of
> knowledge and helpful Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit
> about me - I got my PPL in the US many years ago, training on a
> Tomahawk and doing business flying in Cherokees mostly. I moved to
> the UK for a while and recently got the urge to fly again - bought
> my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a PPL) to
> rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
> model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I
> bought it, with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100
> hours since a rebuild on the 582.
>
> I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a
> 20ft container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several
> questions that will hopefully put it back into top shape first.
>
> Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon
> has a steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty,
> no doubt a bad repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of
> the flaperon, it is loose and slides easily, and the putty must
> have loosened sometime during taking the wings off and putting them
> back on. After a run-up &taxi and a post-flight inspection I
> discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was extended into
> the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
> goodness it was only a run-up!
>
> My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the
> flaperon be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal
> possibly epoxied in place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if
> not how should it be secured? What's the proper repair given that
> the end of the flaperon is now open?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
You can gap seal just like the elevator. 2" tape stuck on top of each other then
put along one side, slide into the gap and then stuck on the other side, make
sure the rudder is pulled to one side before doing the final stick. Closing
the gap will ease up the force applied to the peddles.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189087#189087
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
Are the rudder pedals stiff when operating on the ground with the
tailwheel off the ground? You might look for stiff bearings at the
rudder hinge, or misaligned rudder bearings...if the rudder bearings
don't all line up with each other, that condition will require high
input force. Also, make sure that the rudder pedal bushings are
free...you can lube them up nicely when you have them out for
installation of the gussets. You ARE going to gusset them, aren't you?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:55 PM, nick4853 wrote:
>
> I bought my kitfox at the end of April. The plane had low times
> and was finished back 1996 so it sat more than flew. I decided to
> replace the fuel lines firewall forward new carb boots. I replaced
> the gsc with a warp drive. A friend of mine who owns a model IV
> flew the five hours off on the new prop as I don't have my license
> yet. Yesterday was my 1st flight it and seems that the rudder is
> really stiff at cruising speed. The rudder and stabilizer is not
> the airfoil style and is not gap sealed. My friend who's plane has
> the speedster tail said his rudder is alot easier than mine.
> It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much
> pressure as these are the older style that have not been gusseted.
> What is the best remedy? I would like to make the rudder input
> easier. Or should I just deal with as this is normal. I really
> appreciate this forum and your guys expertise.
> Thanks again,
> Nick
>
> --------
> kitfox !V-1200
> Rotax 912ul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189084#189084
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with
C box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur
with the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
>From what I understand none of the composite prop manufacturers like to hear
of their props being used on either direct drive or any PSRU with an even
reduction number..i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 4. Something to do with normal TV
(Torsional Vibration) harmonics always occurring in exactly the same places
for each prop rotation causing cracking at the prop roots.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can be
used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on it and
use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1 ratio with no
problems , with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Exactly Lynn.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
Interesting....is this because of the harmonics that would be set up
using a 3-blade with a 3:1 ratio? That is, the same blade hitting the
same cylinder every third time around? I seem to recall gear-trains
being set up with an odd number of teeth...called a "hunting tooth"
to keep the same tooth from hitting a particular spot every time
around. Is this the principle?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1
box and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable
maker of aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous
combination or that somewhere I would not come across a service
advisory. I've done a few searches using various wording around 3.0:1
and there doesn't appear to be anything out there. Not on Warp's
website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up with Google. I'm starting to
think this is a bit of a tale.
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
From what I understand none of the composite prop manufacturers like
to hear of their props being used on either direct drive or any PSRU
with an even reduction number..i.e. 1, 2, 3 or 4. Something to do with
normal TV (Torsional Vibration) harmonics always occurring in exactly
the same places for each prop rotation causing cracking at the prop
roots.
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 1:23 PM
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
FYI you cannot use the IVO ultralight 3 blade IFA prop on the 582 C
drive.
This is not true at all . It cannot be used with the 3-1 ratio but can
be used with any other ratio . I am using one with over 700 hours now on
it and use the 2:62 - 1 . You can also use the 3:47-1 or the 4.00-1
ratio with no problems , with the ivo
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=188902#188902
to browse
Un/Subscription,
Browse, Chat, FAQ,
more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Web Forums!
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Checked by AVG.
22/06/2008 7:52 AM
Message 26
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II |
Hi Lynn - thanks for the quick response.
I have taken and attached 2 pix for you, being new to the list I hope it
works. The steel rod (PIC1) is about 3/8" solid steel and is 1/2 the length
of the flaperon, In the picture I laid it on top for you to see. PIC2 shows
it protruding from the leading edge where it should be inside and secured.
The flaperons do not have the counter-weights to stop vibration as I have
seen on other older models, however part of the UK annual airworthiness test
requires the airplane to be flown at Vne (100mph for my model 2) and there
was no hint of vibration or anything other than perfect operation of the
flaperons.
BTW that wasn't your Jabiru 2200 Speedster at the Cub Haven fly-in 2 days
ago was it?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 22 June 2008 2:07 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II
It sounds like the steel rod is an attempt to balance the flaperon?
Or is it actually a steel tube? A steel tube is used within the
flaperon...they call it the flaperon spar...and the flaperon hinges
pivot on it. But you say it is a rod, so my guess is an attempt to
balance the flaperon...got any pictures?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 1:39 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> I would like to introduce myself to this group, I have been
> monitoring it for several days and am impressed with the wealth of
> knowledge and helpful Kitfox owners out there. First a tiny bit
> about me - I got my PPL in the US many years ago, training on a
> Tomahawk and doing business flying in Cherokees mostly. I moved to
> the UK for a while and recently got the urge to fly again - bought
> my Kitfox and trained for a full NPPL (EU equivalent of a PPL) to
> rebuilt my skills and make the full transition to the Kitfox. My
> model 2 was built in the UK in 1991 and was in good shape when I
> bought it, with about 800 hours on the airframe and less than 100
> hours since a rebuild on the 582.
>
> I moved back to the US a while ago and brought my Kitfox over in a
> 20ft container. I haven't flown it here yet and have several
> questions that will hopefully put it back into top shape first.
>
> Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon
> has a steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty,
> no doubt a bad repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of
> the flaperon, it is loose and slides easily, and the putty must
> have loosened sometime during taking the wings off and putting them
> back on. After a run-up &taxi and a post-flight inspection I
> discovered the putty had fallen out and the rod was extended into
> the flaperon linkage potentially locking the controls. Thank
> goodness it was only a run-up!
>
> My question(s) - is this a known problem? How should the end of the
> flaperon be sealed - it appears the port one has bent-over metal
> possibly epoxied in place? Should that steel rod be loose, and if
> not how should it be secured? What's the proper repair given that
> the end of the flaperon is now open?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bob
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 27
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Welcome home!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
To the list:
I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since flying
superceded the build experience, but then when there is no airplane....
Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit. It
was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available. I am
currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the original.
Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like that. It has a
wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. The other major mod
is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing them with an aluminum
leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the stringer. I hope to
someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pictures of the landing
gear attached.
Glad to be back and active.
Lowell Fitt
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a steel
rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad repair.
The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is loose and
slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during taking the wings
off and putting them back on.
> [b]
Bob, the steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it. Here is
a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other information
about your flaperon system.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb9.htm
You can find all the Kitfox service letters and bulletins on the Kitfox factory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc click on technical questions.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#189101
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Good idea thanks.
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Wing Strut Fairings> From: gbsb2002@yahoo.com>
Kitfox-List message posted by: "Mnflyer" <gbsb2002@yahoo.com>> > Hi Dee I
see you have a Model II so the struts are most likely 7/8" like mine the PV
C is designed of 1" what I did was wrap the struts with leading edge tape (
it was 6" wide and heavy duty) about every 24" and the PVC then snapped in
place nicely. If you go that way and want any more tips on installation jus
t e mail me.> > --------> GB > MNFlyer> Flying a HKS Kitfox III> > > > > Re
ad this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p
===========> > >
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
I haven't raised the tail and tried it, I'll try tomorrow. It taxis with less
effort than at cruise. It has 103 hrs on it with no sign of fatigue But yes
I am going to gusset the post and cable attachment.
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189107#189107
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
Thanks Tom, that explains the steel rods (I checked, there is one in the
port wing as well) and the wing patches on all 10 hangers for the aluminum
reinforcement brackets. It will also allow me to answer the inevitable "you
don't have the counter-weights installed(!!??)" that I get every time
another Kitfox owner sees my plane.
I can't however find an installation document for the UK fix and am not sure
how to re-secure the loose rod and seal the end it is coming out of, and
ensure the other one doesn't come loose in flight.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 22 June 2008 3:46 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Model II
[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]
Most important question - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a
steel rod that appears to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad
repair. The problem is that the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is
loose and slides easily, and the putty must have loosened sometime during
taking the wings off and putting them back on.
> [b]
Bob, the steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it. Here
is a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other
information about your flaperon system.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_bulletins/sb9.htm
You can find all the Kitfox service letters and bulletins on the Kitfox
factory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc click on technical questions.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#189101
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
got a Model 3 with a 400 hr 912 for $15,000
David
Model 3 and 7
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189113#189113
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I
guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy.
Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been
modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and
passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping
off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
more accessable.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> Hi Lowell-
>
> Nice to hear from you.
> It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the shot,
> but it seems like there are more structural members within the fuse of
> your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you add some
> reinforcements?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>> To the list:
>>
>> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
>> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
>> airplane....
>>
>> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.
>> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.
>> I am currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
>> original. Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing
>> gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like
>> that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
>> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs,
>> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge
>> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
>> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
>>
>> Glad to be back and active.
>>
>> Lowell Fitt
>> <Landing Gear 3.jpg>
>> <Landing Gear 5.jpg>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer. |
David,
Thanks for the offer. I will keep it in mind. Right now I think that it is a
little out of my price range. If I had the money I would jump at it.
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
>From: dcsfoto <david@kelm.com>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 4:42 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox 1 or 2 for sale cheap? Looking for trainer.
>
>
>got a Model 3 with a 400 hr 912 for $15,000
>
>David
>
>Model 3 and 7
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189113#189113
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
nick4853 wrote:
> I haven't raised the tail and tried it, I'll try tomorrow. It taxis with less
effort than at cruise. It has 103 hrs on it with no sign of fatigue But yes
I am going to gusset the post and cable attachment.
Nick, another point to check is the tail wheel linkage attach holes of the rudder
horn. It seems I can remember some people modified the rudder horn looking
for better control while taxiing. Some drilled tail wheel spring attach holes
inboard of the originals on the rudder horn, I think. The original tail wheel
spring attach holes on the rudder horn are six inches center to center. Anything
less will increase amount of pedal pressure required.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189148#189148
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any noticeable
vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration sensor also
never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of people in Canada
running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade props without problems.
It would still pay to check with prop supplier
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Dave" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
23/06/2008 03:58 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with C
box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur with
the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com
">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Motor mount getting hot |
At 05:16 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>If anyone else has had this problem or knows a solution please let me know.
Three solutions:
1. Wrap the exhaust locally using heat shield available from ACS.
2. Wrap the mount using heat shield from ACS.
3. Build a metal heat shield and attach it to the pipe. (Sort of like
1/4 of a heater muff.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
At 10:55 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>It seems that the rudder pedals would fatigue with this much
>pressure as these are the older style that have not been
>gusseted. What is the best remedy? I would like to make the rudder
>input easier. Or should I just deal with as this is normal.
Doesn't sound like it's normal, according to the other guy. Try:
1. Gusset the rudder pedals. It's a known problem and the rudder
pedals take a hell of a load. (Not from the rudder, but from the brakes.)
2. Try the rudder with the tail lifted. Is it very free? It should
be. If not, find out why.
3. Are the rudder tillers too long? Do you have too much rudder
throw? +/-30 degrees should be enough.
4. If you gap seal the rudder, you'll get a lot more effect around
zero, a lot more "sensitivity".
5. Stupid question time. Are you pushing on both pedals when you use
rudder? (Don't laugh, I've caught myself doing this innumerable
times. Why? I don't know. Maybe I'm trying to be precise.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
At 11:16 AM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
>combination? Is there an advisory about it?
I too have never seen, nor heard anything against a 3-blade Warp on a
3:1 Rotax C box. Not from Rotax, Warp, or anyone service center. I
hope someone comes up with some authoritative info.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
I think I found the source of the story on the IVO web site. It's a
service bulletin and has very little to do with 3:1 gearboxes, although
they are mentioned. I think it's been heavily expanded upon by people
repeating the story. The short story is that one series of IVO has a
service bulletin when used on 3:1 box, or direct drive, or three
cylinder engines.
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any
noticeable vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration
sensor also never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of
people in Canada running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade
props without problems. It would still pay to check with prop supplier
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
At 05:15 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Springs for the exhaust on a 582
www.800-airwolf.com
http://www.geocities.com/chinooktips/ROTAX.html
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/
>Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
www.aircraftspruce.com
>Gas struts for the doors
http://www.guden.com/dampers.asp
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
Bob=0AThe UK fix is not a factory fix and the securing of the rods is froug
ht with problems.- The counter weights as supplied by the factory will be
more secure and lighter.- Will also save you having to answer those ques
tions about why you don't have them. ;-)=0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Or
iginal Message ----=0AFrom: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>=0ATo:
kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 1:25:30 PM=0ASubjec
t: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Model II=0A=0A--> Kitfox-L
ist message posted by: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>=0A=0AThan
ks Tom, that explains the steel rods (I checked, there is one in the=0Aport
wing as well) and the wing patches on all 10 hangers for the aluminum=0Are
inforcement brackets. It will also allow me to answer the inevitable "you
=0Adon't have the counter-weights installed(!!??)" that I get every time=0A
another Kitfox owner sees my plane.=0A=0AI can't however find an installati
on document for the UK fix and am not sure=0Ahow to re-secure the loose rod
and seal the end it is coming out of, and=0Aensure the other one doesn't c
ome loose in flight.=0A=0ABob=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner
-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matron
ics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones=0ASent: 22 June 2008 3:46 pm=0ATo: kitfox-l
ist@matronics.com=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: New member with UK-built Mode
et>=0A=0A[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]- =0AMost important- ques
tion - the inboard leading edge of the flaperon has a=0Asteel rod that appe
ars- to have been held in with some putty, no doubt a bad=0Arepair. The p
roblem is that- the rod is the length of the flaperon, it is=0Aloose and
slides easily, and the- putty must have loosened sometime during=0Ataking
the wings off and- putting them back on.- - =0A> [b]=0A=0A=0ABob, th
e steel rod in the Flaperon is a UK modification to balance it.- Here=0Ai
s a link to a service letter that describes it along with some other=0Ainfo
rmation about your flaperon system.=0Ahttp://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support
/service_bulletins/sb9.htm=0A=0AYou can find all the Kitfox service letters
and bulletins on the Kitfox=0Afactory web site www.Kitfoxaircraftllc- cl
ick on technical questions.=0A=0A--------=0ATom Jones=0AClassic IV=0A503 Ro
tax, 72 inch Two blade Warp=0AEllensburg, WA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic
online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189101#1891
=========================0A
=============
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
That has almost got to be an early attempt to balance the flaperon,
but there are others who may know for sure.
Nope, that wasn't mine. I was originally going to fly to Lock Haven
with a group of guys from Ohio and lower Michigan, but I opted for a
trip to Virginia instead, and that got washed out by my recent prop
problem, (which by the way is not a problem any longer...knock on wood).
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> Hi Lynn - thanks for the quick response.
>
> I have taken and attached 2 pix for you, being new to the list I
> hope it
> works. The steel rod (PIC1) is about 3/8" solid steel and is 1/2
> the length
> of the flaperon, In the picture I laid it on top for you to see.
> PIC2 shows
> it protruding from the leading edge where it should be inside and
> secured.
>
> The flaperons do not have the counter-weights to stop vibration as
> I have
> seen on other older models, however part of the UK annual
> airworthiness test
> requires the airplane to be flown at Vne (100mph for my model 2)
> and there
> was no hint of vibration or anything other than perfect operation
> of the
> flaperons.
>
> BTW that wasn't your Jabiru 2200 Speedster at the Cub Haven fly-in
> 2 days
> ago was it?
>
> Bob
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Kitfox LLC - John and Debra McBean is supporting Kitfox now and carries
a number of different items for the various models.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan<mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
<matronics@bob.brennan.name<mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>>
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a
good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so
just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in advance,
Bob
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
Gary & the others following this thread, or just lurking----
Somewhere I got the idea that the C and E box units, by having the
stronger gear sets were supposed to help take care of the Harmonic/
vibration problems with the gears .
When I decided to go with an Ivo- I called and told them that I had a C
box currently with a gsc and-- the new power would be ( a blue head
with an a 3.47 box E box,) Ivo did not recommend the ultralight 3
blade when I called, but did recommend the medium .. They sent a 3
blade medium ground adjustable, as I indicated that I wanted maximum
STOL performance and did not care about top speed.
Since then I became aware of the Service bulletin #17 and according
to it, I can't use anything other than a 3-1 ratio with the side rail
engine mount.
SO I assume, they had never heard about the bulletin and probably
would have told me to get a different set of gears --i.e. 3-1 ratio for
the E box.
I haven't called Ivo back yet , but from the gist of all the emails,
it is looking more and more like I should mount the old 3-1 C box on the
new engine and convert the prop to a 2 blade with Ivo's different
spacers. Does this sound like a good idea to you ?
Any of you folks out there with any bits of knowledge you have on this
subject feel free to chime in, as I am really starting to get just
a little confused :>)
I really just want to install the E box with 3.47-1 and the 3 blade
medium prop as it should give me terrific "bite" for take off
performance !!!! But if it is going to tear the engine loose from the
motor mounts or induce gear damage, then I will stick with what the
Rotax engineers recommend.
Gary
N4276M
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
With my IVO IFA Ultralight 3 blade and 3:1 C Box the only problem i
experienced was with the drive gear system. there was never any
noticeable vibration and the small SS tape that is used as a vibration
sensor also never showed signs of vibration/ I know of a number of
people in Canada running the IVO (without IFA) and warp three blade
props without problems. It would still pay to check with prop supplier
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
"Dave" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
23/06/2008 03:58 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject Kitfox-List: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop.
I have a warp drive three blade on a 3:1 C box. Is this also a bad
combination? Is there an advisory about it?
----- Original Message -----
From: gary.algate@sandvik.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
You are totally right John - I was responding to an earlier email with
C box and 3:1 ratio. The harmonic by it's very nature will only occur
with the 3:1 ratio and the 3 bladed prop.
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us
immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions
in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
e-mail transmission.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-
-
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell-
I sort of cured that shoulder harness problem by using a 2" wide
length of belting material (similar to the harness) wrapped around
the two shoulder belts, and velcroed to itself. In other words, it's
a circle of belting material that has velcro attached such that it
becomes a straight section in the middle with a loop on each end. The
straight section is formed when the ends of the belt are wrapped
around the harness and pressed together. I'm not explaining it very
well..too late in the day...but the result is the shoulder straps are
held together on your shoulders, yet the thing can be removed very
easily if needed. I put mine behind the down tubes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
On Jun 22, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model
> IV. I guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes
> it look busy. Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the
> turtle deck area has been modified to allow the shoulder straps to
> attach directly behind pilot and passenger. I always struggled
> keeping the shoulder harness from dropping off my shoulder.
> Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area more
> accessable.
>
> Lowell
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
In a message dated 6/22/2008 9:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
(which by the way is not a problem any longer...knock on wood).
Didn't you mean "knock on prop"? :-)
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
I have hooker harnesses on my 4 When I do cross countries and use the small
cargo area, Me and my passenger just loop our shoulder harnesses on the
outside only. Belts only on the inside. Steve Bennett Rebel...
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Motor mount getting hot |
Thanks Guy for the input with the heat shield. I guess I'm wondering why this
occurring to me and not others with the same installation. Like I said before,
the port side bushing shows no sign of heat problems I'm thinking the heat shielding
will cure the problem and is probably an easy fix. Although there's
not a whole lot of room in there. Ill try to post a pic tomorrow.
Thanks
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189201#189201
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Had to replace the gas struts a few years ago on my Mod. 5. Can not remember
exactly where, but it was a camper supply online. They were the exact ones
that came with the kit. $12. and some change.
Albert Smith
MudLake, Id
Mod 5 TD
NSI T Cap
Message 52
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| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to learning
about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew some formation
against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the faster of the
two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch the flap
handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without stalling? I
guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes, but I fly final
at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed with any flap setting.
You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to trim the airplane, but
something about that doesn't square well. The faster you go, the more the nose
wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal stability. To trim nose down,
you must shift the center of lift backwards by putting flaps down further. Flaps
are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. When I get to going
fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add drag. Putting flaps down
is going to fix the problem one way or the other because it is going to kill
all the speed!Corollary question:What flap setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am I free
to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do not have
turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a higher angle
of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with each
other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some difference
in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the cooler one
a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
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