Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:36 AM - Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. (dave)
2. 02:37 AM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (dave)
3. 02:41 AM - Re: New Model IV (dave)
4. 04:24 AM - Re: Flaperon Flutter (Southern Skies)
5. 04:39 AM - Re: Flutter of flaperons (Southern Skies)
6. 05:12 AM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Guy Buchanan)
7. 05:33 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II (Lynn Matteson)
8. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: Flaperon Flutter (Lynn Matteson)
9. 06:24 AM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (kr2@bellsouth.net)
10. 06:40 AM - Re: New Model IV (Lowell Fitt)
11. 06:40 AM - Rotax 582 for sale with only 50 hours on it. (WillUribe@aol.com)
12. 06:48 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Bob Brennan)
13. 06:51 AM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Tom Jones)
14. 06:55 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Bob Brennan)
15. 07:22 AM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Bob Brennan)
16. 08:06 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (jdmcbean)
17. 08:13 AM - Re: C Box and IVO props (eskflyer)
18. 08:49 AM - Re: New Model IV (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
19. 08:53 AM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Bob Brennan)
20. 09:10 AM - Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Bob Brennan)
21. 12:06 PM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Jeffrey Dill)
22. 12:49 PM - Re: New Model IV (Lynn Matteson)
23. 12:49 PM - Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Bob Brennan)
24. 12:51 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Lynn Matteson)
25. 01:04 PM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Marco Menezes)
26. 01:37 PM - Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice (Bob Brennan)
27. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Dave)
28. 02:13 PM - Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Tom Jones)
29. 02:25 PM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Noel Loveys)
30. 02:27 PM - Re: New Model IV (Lowell Fitt)
31. 02:31 PM - Re: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
32. 02:38 PM - Re: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Noel Loveys)
33. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Noel Loveys)
34. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Bob Brennan)
35. 02:43 PM - Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Bob Brennan)
36. 02:56 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Sbennett3@aol.com)
37. 03:25 PM - Re: Rudder seems stiff (nick4853)
38. 03:28 PM - Re: New Model IV (patrick reilly)
39. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: C Box and IVO props (Dave)
40. 04:18 PM - Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Tom Jones)
41. 04:44 PM - Re: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
42. 05:03 PM - Re: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 (Roger Standley)
43. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Bob Brennan)
44. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Bob Brennan)
45. 06:49 PM - Re: New Model IV (Lowell Fitt)
46. 07:02 PM - Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Tom Jones)
47. 07:10 PM - Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (Tom Jones)
48. 08:55 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? (James Shumaker)
49. 11:19 PM - Re: New Model IV (patrick reilly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props, now warp prop. |
> I really just want to install the E box with 3.47-1 and the 3 blade medium prop
as it should give me terrific "bite" for take off performance !!!! But if it
is going to tear the engine loose from the motor mounts or induce gear damage,
then I will stick with what the Rotax engineers recommend.
>
>
>
> Gary
> N4276M
>
I have E box - 3 to 1 works great . tried 2.62 set last year -- worse performance
all around. 3.47 I would like to try as well.
IVO medium 3 blade with 3 to 1 and 582 is way too much prop. 2 blade will work best. I have tried 6 or 7 different props all with comparable numbers on the 582. No huge gains to be had. A few % at best. all props do have their own attributes. There are some various prop tests here http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Does your Kitfox fly like this ? short take offs and cruise at 92 with 582 .......
3 to 1 box harmonics might be a issue........ I think it all stemmed from some
IVO UL 3 blade configs loosening off a bit and now that is why witness tape
is used to show movement.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189229#189229
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
on the ground all controls should be free and easy.
elevator should fall with gravity. Rudder should be totally free. IF not something
is binding and that is not good.
In the air all controls will get "stiffer" with speed.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189230#189230
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell, Welcome back and I love you gear. Your cub type gear is awesome. Looks
like a cheaper and light alternative to the grove gear.
Will you be selling it ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189231#189231
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon Flutter |
I replaced the white nylon on the turtledeck with thicker Delrin and made it a
nice, snug fit around the flaperon rod. It surprised me how much difference it
made. Much of the up and down play is gone. I also reinforced the inboard and
outboard hangar ribs.
There is another Kitfox at my airport and when we looked there we found one side
of the nylon also cracked.
I will still replace all the hinge bushings and that should put me back in the
air safely.......
Chris Bowles
KF3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
From: skypics234@aol.com
Sent: Jun 22, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [avid_flyer] Flaperon Flutter
I have two friends with Kitfoxes. One is a Kitfox 2 and the other a Kitfox
3.
They both have counterweights on the flaperons, but both encountered flutter.
Both were corrected by tightening up all the linkage between the stick and
the flaperons and making better and tighter supports where the flaperon
activation rods go through the side of the turtle deck.
In both cases the flutter was intermittent, but showed up mostly when doing
Dutch Rolls.
These are very alarming as you might imagine.
John M
In a message dated 6/22/2008 9:03:13 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
chris@southernskies.net writes:
Hello Listers,
I thought I'll check here too for any input that you might be able to
provide.
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
Rick- yes I am aware of this and have grounded the plane for now. I did look
the plane over again with another A&P and am waiting for a very experienced
Kitfox/Avid owner to come and take a look.
We did find the nylon plates that provide a bearing surface going through
the turtledeck busted and I made up some better, wider Delrin bushings that
have a nice fit.
I also found some areas on the flaperons where the foam is not tight and
will fix that.
Also, I'll replace all the hanger/flaperon spar bushings- they do have a
little play-are those standard size bushings?. Could use some advice on how to
get them out. Drill the rivets out and pull the tube/spar out? Will the foam
cause a problem?
After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not balance on the
hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or do I need to balance
them so they stay in any position?
Thanks for all the help and advice!
Chris Bowles
KF 3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net>
>Sent: Jun 21, 2008 7:46 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>What ever you do fix what you think may be causing the flutter before
>you fly again. You may already know, but flutter is such weak word
>something that can be fatal. What starts out as , well something you can
>hardly feel can develop in seconds to a major structural failure. I
>would say if I were to go up after having experienced flutter and did
>not know for sure I had isolated and fixed the cause I would wear a
>parachute. I am serious.
>
>Rick
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James
>Shumaker
>Sent: 2008-06-20 20:43
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>Chris
>
>If the Ribs move when you wiggle them they are probably broken. 55 is
>slow for flutter to show up. If you have the counter weights this is
>the first we have heard of flutter with proper counterweights. How fast
>was the flutter?
>
>Jim Shumaker
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 5:04:18 AM
>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Much foward stick on climbout
>
><chris@southernskies.net>
>
>This Rotax 582 does have the C Box with 3:1. I will look for the Ivo
>Prop or a 6 lb toolkit ! Great idea!
>In the meantime, I strapped 6 lbs of steel under the engine mount and
>that brought everything into the limits. The W&B was done with the BRS
>installed. There have also been some repairs done to the tailsection
>from the previous groundloop, perhaps adding a little weight.
>
>During yesterdays flight after the CG fix everything went fine with much
>less forward pressure needed however a brief period of aileron flutter
>caught my attention, unrelated to the CG as it has happened once before.
>The first time it was so brief that I thought it was just some
>turbulence that was messing with me but on yesterdays flight it lasted a
>little longer and made me nervous as this was on long final, straight
>and level at 55 knots in smooth air with no or little flaps deployed.
>Just started shaking the stick left to right- I looked at the flapperons
>and wing while it was happening and both were visibly moving up and
>down. Made some S turns and it stopped. The whole episode was short. I
>very closely inspected every piece of the linkage together with a local
>A&P after landing and we found a few places that allowed to be snugged
>up just a little but not anything large. Nothing was real floppy but the
>ailerons can be moved up and down a bit (maybe 1/2 inch measuring at!
> the trailing edge) before the stick moves. There are a lot of joints
>so that may be normal.
>Removed the linkage completely and checked the aileron nylon bushings-
>seemed o.k.too, not much axial play- but side to side yes.
>
>Both ailerons have a few dings and a few areas of loose foam. The
>external counterweights are installed
>on the far outboard side.
>All the rib hangers have the thin metal plates installed but a couple of
>the hangers move a little side to side when wiggled and a little up and
>down together with the wing.
>
>Where the aileron rod passes through the turtledeck there is not much of
>a bearing surface. Just some nylon that doesn't provide much support in
>my opinion.
>
>Any ideas what else I should look at?
>
>Thanks for any advice-
>
>
>Chris Bowles
>KF 3 Rotax 582
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter of flaperons |
Yes I had provided that info earlier- the counterbalance weights are installed
and they are tight.
To make the flaperons balance on the hinge I would have to add weight to the trailing
edge.
They fall towards the leading edge when linkage is removed.
Perhpas the foam has deteriorated?
Chris Bowles
KF3 Rotax 582
-----Original Message-----
>From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>Sent: Jun 22, 2008 1:47 PM
>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flutter of flaperons
>
>
>I don't think you answered someone's question about balance
>weights....do you even HAVE balance weights on the flaperons?
>
>Lynn Matteson
>Kitfox IV Speedster
>Jabiru 2200
>Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
>On Jun 22, 2008, at 11:52 AM, Southern Skies wrote:
>> After removing the linkage I found that the flaperons do not
>> balance on the hinge. They flop down one direction- is this o.k. or
>> do I need to balance them so they stay in any position?
>>
>> Thanks for all the help and advice!
>>
>> Chris Bowles
>> KF 3 Rotax 582
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
At 09:36 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. When
>I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add
>drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
>other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary
>question:What flap setting gives the best speed
Well, any trim is drag, the question is, what system generates the
least drag. I have found that the elevator, probably because of its
long arm, generates less drag than using the flaps for trim. I
therefore installed an elevator trim tab. Once I did I then fiddled
both until I had maximum speed in cruise. I found the cruise speed,
though, to be fairly insensitive to configuration.
>What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal
>stab? Am I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my
>stab struts do not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading
>edge by choosing a higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
You're free to experiment, but only if you put adjustment capability
on your struts, or make three pairs of struts. I wouldn't bend
anything. (I think most run their stab LE as "flat" as possible,
(high LE,) which makes for less trim drag and less pitch stability.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II |
Oh, no, never knock on my prop...the splinter might fall off! Then
I'd have to balance it by taking an axe to the other end and
then........
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
do not archive
On Jun 22, 2008, at 9:46 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 6/22/2008 9:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
> (which by the way is not a problem any longer...knock on wood).
> Didn't you mean "knock on prop"? :-)
>
>
> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient
> used cars.
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flaperon Flutter |
I'm curious....how do you plan on replacing "all the hinge bushings?"
Seems to me that the hinge tube, or spar as I've heard it called, is
pretty much permanently fixed in place isn't it?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/530 hrs
do not archive
On Jun 23, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Southern Skies wrote:
> <chris@southernskies.net>
>
> I replaced the white nylon on the turtledeck with thicker Delrin
> and made it a nice, snug fit around the flaperon rod. It surprised
> me how much difference it made. Much of the up and down play is
> gone. I also reinforced the inboard and outboard hangar ribs.
>
> There is another Kitfox at my airport and when we looked there we
> found one side of the nylon also cracked.
>
> I will still replace all the hinge bushings and that should put me
> back in the air safely.......
>
> Chris Bowles
>
> KF3 Rotax 582
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lynn,
I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I worried at
times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a crash and fire.
It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon just came apart. What
I mean is the webbing shredded.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> Lowell-
> I sort of cured that shoulder harness problem by using a 2" wide length
> of belting material (similar to the harness) wrapped around the two
> shoulder belts, and velcroed to itself. In other words, it's a circle of
> belting material that has velcro attached such that it becomes a straight
> section in the middle with a loop on each end. The straight section is
> formed when the ends of the belt are wrapped around the harness and
> pressed together. I'm not explaining it very well..too late in the
> day...but the result is the shoulder straps are held together on your
> shoulders, yet the thing can be removed very easily if needed. I put mine
> behind the down tubes.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/530 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2008, at 4:59 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV.
>> I guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look
>> busy. Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area
>> has been modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind
>> pilot and passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness
>> from dropping off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes
>> the baggage area more accessable.
>>
>> Lowell
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax 582 for sale with only 50 hours on it. |
Greetings,
There is a Rotax 582 blue head engine for sale here at our airport. The
owner is asking $3000 but make him an offer if you are interested. If you have
any questions let me know off list and I will ask the mechanic when I see him.
What brother told me about it is it was driven hard by a rich farmer in
Chihuahua for the first 50 hours causing the crankshaft to brake. The broken
crankshaft made a hole in the crankcase. The farmer replaced the engine with
a
new one and this one was given to the mechanic for services rendered. The
engine was torn down, inspected, the crankshaft was replaced, new rings
installed then was flown on a Rans for 15 hours. The Rans was never registered
so
the engine had to be removed.
Here is the e-mail I received
Rotax 582 has 65 hours since new.
At 50 hours the crankshaft broke through the bottom of the crankcase.
A new crankshaft and rings were installed and the hole on the crankcase was
welded close. After the repairs It was installed on a Rans and flown for 15
hours without a problem.
If you are interested please contact Eduardo Contredas at
_titanicaco@hotmail.com_ (mailto:titanicaco@hotmail.com) . You can view pictures of the engine
at
_http://www.members.aol.com/cesaru/582_
(http://www.members.aol.com/cesaru/582)
The engine is located at the El Paso, TX airport T27 and is being offered
for $3000, the buyer pays for shipping.
do not archive
Regards,
Will Uribe
FireStar II
El Paso, TX
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
Message 12
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Thanks Dee - I assume you mean the site at http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
<blocked::http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/> ? They seem to be a good
possibility for a new spinner but not the other things.
Bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: 22 June 2008 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Kitfox LLC - John and Debra McBean is supporting Kitfox now and carries a
number of different items for the various models.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in p; Features Chat, -->
http://www.matron======================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
RE: Trimming with flaps and EGTs
Jeff, Pulling the flap handle up pitches the nose down. Don't worry about losing
speed with this set up for trimming...it is a kitfox. My Classic 4 cruises
at 75 and needs just 1/2 inch or less of up flap handle to trim the nose down
to level hands off. I can't see any loss of speed on the indicator. I get
on my snowmobile when I want to go really fast.
The carb pistons (slides) should be set even at closed throttle They should both
contact the idle screw stop at the same time as throttle is closed. Then check
to see that they both move up at exactly the same time when throttle is advanced.
They should be just clear of the top of the carb throat at full throttle.
Be sure the throttle handle hits it's stop at full throttle so the force
is not on the cables.
The carb main jet controls fuel and thus EGT at full throttle. Different EGT between
cylinders is not unusual. It can easily be a temp gage error. Switch
the probes in the exhaust manifold Y to trouble shoot it. If it is in spec (I
think 45 degrees F difference) and runs good and smooth, don't worry about it.
It is mostly a base line reading to monitor for changes anyhow. Check the
spark plug color for the final decision.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189281#189281
Message 14
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have recommendations on the
springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
composite?
Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting points
and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume) make
stainless look attractive.
Any experience / opinions on these choices?
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: 22 June 2008 8:51 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
At 05:15 PM 6/22/2008, you wrote:
>Springs for the exhaust on a 582
www.800-airwolf.com
http://www.geocities.com/chinooktips/ROTAX.html
http://www.leadingedge-airfoils.com/index.htm
http://www.lockwood-aviation.com/
>Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
www.aircraftspruce.com
>Gas struts for the doors
http://www.guden.com/dampers.asp
Message 15
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| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
Message 16
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Bob,
We can help with most if not all the items for the Kitfox line
of aircraft. We are working on a more comprehensive catalog.. What size
spinner ?
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Thanks Dee - I assume you mean the site at http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
<blocked::http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/> ? They seem to be a good
possibility for a new spinner but not the other things.
Bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: 22 June 2008 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Kitfox LLC - John and Debra McBean is supporting Kitfox now and carries a
number of different items for the various models.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in p; Features Chat, -->
http://www.matron======================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1 box and
it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable maker of aircraft
engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous combination or that somewhere
I would not come across a service advisory. I've done a few searches using various
wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear to be anything out there. Not
on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up with Google. I'm starting
to think this is a bit of a tale.
Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get a honest
opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out from the
source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it with 3:1 ratio
. Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so u can do anything
u want to but experience speaks for itself .
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189314#189314
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my shoulders,
I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no "scissor" action
as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered behind the seats.
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Thanks to all for the welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I
> guess with a bright sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy.
> Actually, though, from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been
> modified to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and
> passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping
> off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
> more accessable.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Matteson"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 3:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
>
> >
> > Hi Lowell-
> >
> > Nice to hear from you.
> > It may just be all the shadows or the angle at which you took the shot,
> > but it seems like there are more structural members within the fuse of
> > your plane than normal. Is that just an illusion, or did you add some
> > reinforcements?
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster
> > Jabiru 2200
> > Status: flying w/530 hrs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> >
> >> To the list:
> >>
> >> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again since
> >> flying superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
> >> airplane....
> >>
> >> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially completed kit.
> >> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are available.
> >> I am currently working on all the things I learned to wish I had on the
> >> original. Just finished a cabane attached compression spring landing
> >> gear. It comes in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like
> >> that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
> >> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs,
> >> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading edge
> >> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin working on the
> >> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
> >>
> >> Glad to be back and active.
> >>
> >> Lowell Fitt
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my shoulders,
I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no "scissor"
action as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered behind
the seats.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Lowell Fitt"
<lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted
by: "Lowell Fitt" <LCFITT@SBCGLOBAL.NET><BR>> <BR>> Thanks to all for the
welcome. To Lynn, this is the typical Model IV. I <BR>> guess with a bright
sunny day and lots of contrast it makes it look busy. <BR>> Actually, though,
from the advice of friends, the turtle deck area has been <BR>> modified
to allow the shoulder straps to attach directly behind pilot and <BR>>
passenger. I always struggled keeping the shoulder harness from dropping <BR>>
off my shoulder. Repositioning the center lug also makes the baggage area
<BR>> more accessable. <BR>> <BR>> Lowell <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: "Lynn Matteson" <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>>
To: <KITFOX-LIST@MATRONICS.COM><BR>> Sent: Sunday,
June
22, 2008 3:40 AM <BR>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <LYNNMATT@JPS.NET><BR>>
> <BR>> > Hi Lowell- <BR>> > <BR>> > Nice
to hear from you. <BR>> > It may just be all the shadows or the angle
at which you took the shot, <BR>> > but it seems like there are more structural
members within the fuse of <BR>> > your plane than normal. Is
that just an illusion, or did you add some <BR>> > reinforcements? <BR>>
> <BR>> > Lynn Matteson <BR>> > Kitfox IV Speedster <BR>>
> Jabiru 2200 <BR>> > Status: flying w/530 hrs <BR>> > <BR>>
> <BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 3:33 PM,
Lowell Fitt wrote: <BR>> > <BR>> >> To the list: <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it
again since <BR>> >> flying superceded the b
uild e
xperience, but then when there is no <BR>> >> airplane.... <BR>> >>
<BR>> >> Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially
completed kit. <BR>> >> It was outfitted for the 582, so I have some
parts that are available. <BR>> >> I am currently working on all the
things I learned to wish I had on the <BR>> >> original. Just finished
a cabane attached compression spring landing <BR>> >> gear. It comes
in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I like <BR>> >>
that. It has a wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear. <BR>>
>> The other major mod is the elimination of the upper false ribs, <BR>>
>> replacing them with an aluminum leading edge from the PVC leading
edge <BR>> >> aft to the stringer. I hope to someday actually begin
working on the <BR>> >> airplane. Pictures of the landing gear attached.
<BR>> >> <BR>> >> Glad to be
back a
e - <B
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 19
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Hi John or Debra,
I have attached a picture of my current spinner/prop, please tell me what
dimensions to measure and send, Also - is there anything else on my list
below I can get from you? I prefer dealing with one source if possible,
especially a Kitfox-specific source :-)
Thanks, Bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: 23 June 2008 11:03 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Bob,
We can help with most if not all the items for the Kitfox line
of aircraft. We are working on a more comprehensive catalog.. What size
spinner ?
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 7:46 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Thanks Dee - I assume you mean the site at http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/
<blocked::http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/> ? They seem to be a good
possibility for a new spinner but not the other things.
Bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young
Sent: 22 June 2008 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
Kitfox LLC - John and Debra McBean is supporting Kitfox now and carries a
number of different items for the various models.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 6:15 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Hi - I have a Kitfox that I brought with me from the UK and I need to
replace a few parts before flying it again. Can anyone recommend a good
source of parts, preferably online? Specifically I need:
Springs for the exhaust on a 582
Aluminum spinner for a 3-blade prop on the 582
Gas struts for the doors
Prop tape to seal a crack in the windshield
And I'm sure I'll find a few more things that could use updating, so just a
reliable US aviation supplier.
Thanks in p; Features Chat, -->
http://www.matron======================
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Release Date: 6/22/2008 7:52 AM
Message 20
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| Subject: | Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
Hi all,
I have moved recently from the UK and brought my Kitfox Model 2 with me. In
2003 it changed classification in the UK from GA to Microlight, which
allowed me more privileges than restrictions. I have registered it with a
proper "N" number here but there was no request for a classification, GA or
Experimental, or Light Sport that I could find. The FAA are less than
helpful (surprise, surprise) about anything to do with the Light Sport
category. I have full PPL licenses in both the US and EU if that matters.
My questions:
1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional
what is the best?
2. How do I make it officially that type?
3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own servicing
- how about in the US?
4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but
doesn't the thoroughness follow the type?
5. How about insurance?
A more general question - since it was a US kit built to UK requirements
where can I find minimum requirements here, such as harnesses, headsets,
lights, radio, ELT, parachute, etc, etc. It's a tough question to ask -
"Please tell me what I don't know..."
Thanks in advance,
Bob
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
That has been my experience too, that flap position does not seem to affect my
cruise speed, but no controlled study so far. I am finding that trimming for high
speed is more flap than I would want on final.
I have not bothered to put notches in my flap handle. I can set an infinite range
without stops to prevent too far forward or two far aft, using the leather
washer design to hold the handle where I put it. I have paid the price for having
this configuration and am trying to at least mark the safe limits. Up to
at least three stories to tell on that one, the last one resulted in quite an
air-show at the controlled field. I believe I experienced the lack of roll authority
you referenced in the flare, even though the flaps were at a setting that
still gave full authority to the ailerons. I swear another factor, as I was
trying to get that right wing to go down, was adverse yaw pulling the left one
backwards.
I am still getting a little skip at mid range from the engine. It has been since
last September that I played with the mixture screw. That is when I put #45
idle jets in it. It idles better but still some four cycling, but much better.
I have to read up again to remember what I can achieve by adjusting the mixture
screws.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189375#189375
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
John-
That's a good idea...I'll have to look and see if I can still do that
move now that the plane is covered. I recall that one of the belts is
pretty hard to access with covering on, but I think that was the lap
belt on the outside of the plane.
Lowell-
Shredded? Wow, that must have been some hit. Did you sew the red
webbing, or velcro it? With the velcro, it should have just popped
the velcro loose, I would think.
The more I think about how I did mine, the less sure I am about the
safety issue....I might just get turned sideways and slip through the
shoulder harness and get up close and personal with the panel....time
to revisit this situation, I think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I
worried at times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a
crash and fire. It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon
just came apart. What I mean is the webbing shredded.
On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:46 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
> Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
>
> A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my
> shoulders, I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There
> is no "scissor" action as the angle is only slightly greater than
> if centered behind the seats.
>
> John Kerr
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
Thanks Matt - I've been a member of the EAA for many years. I'm an American
that lived in the UK for 14 years.
All of the documents at the EAA or FAA websites define requirements and
limitations of Light Sport and Experimental aircraft, but don't explain
specifics and whether they are inclusive or exclusive. It appears that the
Light Sport category is tailored to the new Sport Pilot license, but I have
a full PPL. In the UK my Kitfox was clearly (and voluntarily) classified as
"microlight" and I held an NPPLM (National Private Pilot's Licence for
Microlights) and there was a clear distinction. Here there isn't much
distinction between "Experimental" and "Light Sport" other than weight
limitations and who can fly them when and where. It seems to be more of a
distinction on the pilot rather than the aircraft, or am I missing
something?
BTW I went to 2 FAA offices and no one there was clear on the situation
either, they called it "too new"!
Bob
_____
From: Matt Magdic
Sent: 23 June 2008 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both?
Bob, I'm normally just a reader here, but your best bet is to call the EAA.
They are there to help and more than willing....
Welcome to the U.S. !
Matt
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
I've got a fiberglas spinner and no problems in 538 hours, and when I
need to change the springs on my Jabiru exhaust pipes, I use ordinary
cad-plated springs from the local hardware store. I get the 12" long
springs and cut to the proper length, and re-form the ends.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have
> recommendations on the
> springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
> composite?
>
> Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting
> points
> and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
> replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume)
> make
> stainless look attractive.
>
> Any experience / opinions on these choices?
>
> Bob
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
Don't-overanalyize-it Jeff. It works. Pull up the flap lever in flight
and the nose comes down. From my experience in a M2, that's about all the f
laps are really good for. Lemme guess, your forward cylinder EGT runs 50-10
0 degrees-cooler than the aft, right?
-
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Mod 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 6/23/08, Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily@comcast.net> wrote:
From: Jeffrey Dill <1dillfamily@comcast.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
<1dillfamily@comcast.net>
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some
formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the fas
ter
of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch t
he
flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without stallin
g? I
guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes, but I fly fin
al at
least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed with any flap set
ting.
You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to trim the airplane, but
something about that doesn't square well. The faster you go, the more the
nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal stability. To trim nose
down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by putting flaps down
further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have this straight. Wh
en I
get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure, or I add drag. Putting
flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the other because it is g
oing
to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap setting gives the best s
peed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I
free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do not
have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a higher
angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even wit
h
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing
some difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up th
e
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
============0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | New member with UK-built Model II needs parts advice |
Define "need to change the springs" please Lynn - does that mean "broken" or
"rusted" or "change interval is due"? Mine are rusted and one is broken and
hanging on by the safety wire. If stainless is as strong and do their
"spring" thing as well why use anything else?
I agree with the fiberglass spinner - especially in front of a Jabiru
cowling which is good-looking to begin with. Let me guess - white spinner
and white cowl with fancy colored lettering? My M2 has J3 cub yellow with
black go-faster stripes and the big radial cowling. With a 3-blade wood prop
and gloss black spinner I think mine is darned good looking too :-) Except
for the cracks in the spinner....
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 23 June 2008 3:49 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New member with UK-built Model II needs parts
advice
I've got a fiberglas spinner and no problems in 538 hours, and when I
need to change the springs on my Jabiru exhaust pipes, I use ordinary
cad-plated springs from the local hardware store. I get the 12" long
springs and cut to the proper length, and re-form the ends.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/538 hrs
On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Thanks Guy for the excellent links, does anyone have
> recommendations on the
> springs - stainless vs standard, and the prop spinner - aluminum vs
> composite?
>
> Since my current aluminum spinner has stress cracks on ALL fitting
> points
> and several missing pieces I am naturally leaning towards a composite
> replacement. And my rusty and weak exhaust springs (steel I assume)
> make
> stainless look attractive.
>
> Any experience / opinions on these choices?
>
> Bob
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
Geee, I bet they're closed on Sunday. I could certainly call TODAY if I
suspected for one minute there was a huge issue out there with Warp props on
these boxes. I don't think there is, I think when Warp says any Rotax box,
they mean it. I already posted that IVO has an issue with one series of
props on several installations, I don't use an IVO. Did you miss your
morning coffee or something? I'll spell it out for you, it's an IVO problem,
not a gearbox problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "eskflyer" <eskflyer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
> Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get
> a honest opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out
> from the source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it
> with 3:1 ratio . Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so
> u can do anything u want to but experience speaks for itself .
>
> --------
> FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
> John Perry
> Kitfox 2 N718PD
> 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
> 1220 Full Lotus
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
> 1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional what
is the best?
> 2. How do I make it officially that type?
> 3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own servicing
- how about in the US?
> 4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but doesn't
the thoroughness follow the type?
> 5. How about insurance?
Bob, I'll try to keep from confusing you further by putting this in common terms.
Probably all US built KItfoxes are registered as "Experimental Amateur Built".
There, so far, is no such thing as a Kitfox "Experimental Light sport aircraft".
I do not know the rules for registering, servicing or working on an imported Kitfox.
I do know that if a Model 2 Kitfox does not have an in-flight adjustable propeller
it meets the definition of a Light Sport Aircraft so you can fly it under
Sport Pilot rules with your PPL and a state drivers license.
You do not need a current medical certificate but if you ever fail a FAA medical
exam you must get that resolved before you can fly under sport pilot rules again.
Insurance is not required but is available if you want/need it.
Don't try to find any logic in the above. Logic was not a consideration in establishing
these rules.
Here's what I do.
I fly my kitfox with a PPL under sport pilot rules. I have not taken an FAA medical
exam since mine expired six years ago.
Anyone can service or work on my Kitfox. The only signature required ever for
anything in the aircraft log book is for the annual condition inspection. That
must be signed by the original builder with a repairman's certificate (me) or
a minimum A&P mechanic.
I am a low time tail wheel pilot insured through AIG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189422#189422
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| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
Manitoba used to have laws against riding on the running boards of any
vehicle (Harley owners loved that one) but I don't know of any law
restricting putting your foot on the wheel... how about hang gliders where
the feet are the wheels?? I think You're legal.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Lynn,
The strap had velcro on each end with a small "D" ring for grabbing in an
emergency. Picture of what was left attached. Yes it was a hit.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
>
> John-
> That's a good idea...I'll have to look and see if I can still do that
> move now that the plane is covered. I recall that one of the belts is
> pretty hard to access with covering on, but I think that was the lap belt
> on the outside of the plane.
>
> Lowell-
>
> Shredded? Wow, that must have been some hit. Did you sew the red webbing,
> or velcro it? With the velcro, it should have just popped the velcro
> loose, I would think.
> The more I think about how I did mine, the less sure I am about the
> safety issue....I might just get turned sideways and slip through the
> shoulder harness and get up close and personal with the panel....time to
> revisit this situation, I think.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/538 hrs
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2008, at 9:36 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> I did exactly the same thing, but with 1" red nylon webbing. I worried
> at times if it would be hard to get out of in the event of a crash and
> fire. It is interesting that in our hard landing, the nylon just came
> apart. What I mean is the webbing shredded.
>
>
> On Jun 23, 2008, at 11:46 AM, kerrjohna@comcast.net wrote:
>
>> Lowell, they world is back on its proper axis with you building again.
>>
>> A comment on the shoulder straps: Tired of having them slip off my
>> shoulders, I swapped the ends so that they cross behind me. There is no
>> "scissor" action as the angle is only slightly greater than if centered
>> behind the seats.
>>
>> John Kerr
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
The skip at midrange you mention sounds like your midrange mixture is to ri
ch. The idle circut will not have much effect at midrange, that is control
led by the jet needle and needle jet. If the EGTs are low and the sparkplu
gs are black in color, I would raise the clip one notch on the jet needle.
Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a f
lap handle? Model 2> From: 1dillfamily@comcast.net> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008
12:03:09 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message po
sted by: "Jeffrey Dill" <1dillfamily@comcast.net>> > That has been my exper
ience too, that flap position does not seem to affect my cruise speed, but
no controlled study so far. I am finding that trimming for high speed is mo
re flap than I would want on final.> > I have not bothered to put notches i
n my flap handle. I can set an infinite range without stops to prevent too
far forward or two far aft, using the leather washer design to hold the han
dle where I put it. I have paid the price for having this configuration and
am trying to at least mark the safe limits. Up to at least three stories t
o tell on that one, the last one resulted in quite an air-show at the contr
olled field. I believe I experienced the lack of roll authority you referen
ced in the flare, even though the flaps were at a setting that still gave f
ull authority to the ailerons. I swear another factor, as I was trying to g
et that right wing to go down, was adverse yaw pulling the left one backwar
ds.> > I am still getting a little skip at mid range from the engine. It ha
s been since last September that I played with the mixture screw. That is w
hen I put #45 idle jets in it. It idles better but still some four cycling,
but much better. I have to read up again to remember what I can achieve by
adjusting the mixture screws.> > --------> Jeff Dill> Model 2, 767JD> > >
> > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p
=============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I was given a little trick to setting up the idle screws on the Bing 54
carbs. First thing was to remove the carbs from the plane and back the
idle
screws to a point where the slides bottom right out. Then lift the
slide
withyour finger and let it drop you will hear a sound as it bottoms.
Turn
the idle screw in a fraction of a turn and do the same thing again until
the
sound of the bottoming dulls. This is the point where the idle screw
first
makes contact with the slide. Do this to both carbs. Turn in the idle
screw on both carbs exactly the same number of turns. This part I=92m
a bit
fuzzy on. I think it=92s around 1 =BD turns. Either way when you
adjust one
carb adjust the other the exact same amount.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:19 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
RE: Trimming with flaps and EGTs
Jeff, Pulling the flap handle up pitches the nose down. Don't worry
about
losing speed with this set up for trimming...it is a kitfox. My
Classic 4
cruises at 75 and needs just 1/2 inch or less of up flap handle to trim
the
nose down to level hands off. I can't see any loss of speed on the
indicator. I get on my snowmobile when I want to go really fast.
The carb pistons (slides) should be set even at closed throttle They
should
both contact the idle screw stop at the same time as throttle is closed.
Then check to see that they both move up at exactly the same time when
throttle is advanced. They should be just clear of the top of the carb
throat at full throttle. Be sure the throttle handle hits it's stop at
full
throttle so the force is not on the cables.
The carb main jet controls fuel and thus EGT at full throttle.
Different
EGT between cylinders is not unusual. It can easily be a temp gage
error.
Switch the probes in the exhaust manifold Y to trouble shoot it. If it
is
in spec (I think 45 degrees F difference) and runs good and smooth,
don't
worry about it. It is mostly a base line reading to monitor for changes
anyhow. Check the spark plug color for the final decision.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189281#189281
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
As an added enticement, while talking to the prop folks you may come across
some related infl that they may be able to help with... Today phone calls
are cheap enough.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of eskflyer
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
I got that from the various opinions offered. But Rotax offers the 3:1 box
and it is very popular. I can't help but think that a reputable maker of
aircraft engines would NOT continue to offer a dangerous combination or that
somewhere I would not come across a service advisory. I've done a few
searches using various wording around 3.0:1 and there doesn't appear to be
anything out there. Not on Warp's website, nor Rotax's, nothing comes up
with Google. I'm starting to think this is a bit of a tale.
Geee did you think to actually call the manufacturer of the props, To get a
honest opinion. If you hear something do you just believe it or find out
from the source itself. Call IVO and ask him he will say no do not use it
with 3:1 ratio . Of course these are experimental aircraft and engines so u
can do anything u want to but experience speaks for itself .
--------
FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW
John Perry
Kitfox 2 N718PD
582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA
1220 Full Lotus
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189314#189314
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot, which
allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you say
that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook entry,
but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
the Type and Model which are recorded as
Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local FAA
Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
before returning to the air.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 5:11 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
> 1. What is the classification for a Model 2 with a 582? If it's optional
what is the best?
> 2. How do I make it officially that type?
> 3. I am not the original builder but in the UK I did all of my own
servicing - how about in the US?
> 4. Does it require an Airworthiness Certificate? I assume "of course!" but
doesn't the thoroughness follow the type?
> 5. How about insurance?
Bob, I'll try to keep from confusing you further by putting this in common
terms.
Probably all US built KItfoxes are registered as "Experimental Amateur
Built". There, so far, is no such thing as a Kitfox "Experimental Light
sport aircraft".
I do not know the rules for registering, servicing or working on an imported
Kitfox.
I do know that if a Model 2 Kitfox does not have an in-flight adjustable
propeller it meets the definition of a Light Sport Aircraft so you can fly
it under Sport Pilot rules with your PPL and a state drivers license.
You do not need a current medical certificate but if you ever fail a FAA
medical exam you must get that resolved before you can fly under sport pilot
rules again.
Insurance is not required but is available if you want/need it.
Don't try to find any logic in the above. Logic was not a consideration in
establishing these rules.
Here's what I do.
I fly my kitfox with a PPL under sport pilot rules. I have not taken an FAA
medical exam since mine expired six years ago.
Anyone can service or work on my Kitfox. The only signature required ever
for anything in the aircraft log book is for the annual condition
inspection. That must be signed by the original builder with a repairman's
certificate (me) or a minimum A&P mechanic.
I am a low time tail wheel pilot insured through AIG.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189422#189422
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| Subject: | Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
And the wind on my toes is SOOO refreshing...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 23 June 2008 5:24 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
Manitoba used to have laws against riding on the running boards of any
vehicle (Harley owners loved that one) but I don't know of any law
restricting putting your foot on the wheel... how about hang gliders where
the feet are the wheels?? I think You're legal.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
I also have a model 2 with a 582, and am finding new uses for the flaps all
the time. According to the Kitfox pilot's manual the first notch adds mostly
lift and a little drag, the second notch adds lots of drag and a little
lift.
I'm not sure how many Kitfox pilots use it as a STOL aircraft but that was
the emphasis of the original designs, and the flaperons were the major part
of that. My Kitfox is hangered in my barn and will be flown into and out of
wherever I can, hence my choice of a good STOL aircraft. In fact I trained
at a very short grass farm strip with mostly trikes and large obstacles no
matter which way you land.
I use no flaps when flying alone with light fuel load on takeoff, notch one
if I have a passenger and/or fuel load. Landing at a "normal" airport I
would not use flaps, but dropping in to a short grass field over a 50ft+
tree I use 1 notch after turning to final which noses down and floats so I
can accurately plan phase 2, then put on notch 2 just over the obstacle so a
steep descent doesn't increase airspeed and I can flare in the shortest
possible distance. I also use 2 notches under any conditions if I am light
and don't want to float forever on the flare ;-)
A word of caution though, also from personal experience, don't use flaps on
landing in anything other than straight flight. On a model 2 you can
seriously run out of control authority with flaps, low airspeed, and a steep
turn. My instructor called it "falling off the wing" with a wing low and the
stick full over to the other side and the airplane heading sideways towards
the ground. Dumping flaps is too late at that point, so I learned to just
never do it!
Oh and one more use for flaps - 1 notch on a clear summer's day, throttle
back, fling open the doors, diddle the stick up, and enjoy the view! (Using
the wheel as a footrest can be fun too, but possibly not legal...)
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Dill
Sent: 23 June 2008 12:37 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2
I was sick for about six months, but got my medical back and am back to
learning about this model 2 I rebuilt. I had a great day on Saturday. Flew
some formation against a Thorpe Scooter, whose owner was delighted to be the
faster of the two airplanes.
With about 20 hours in the airplane, I have gotten so that I never touch
the flap handle. What is it there for? To be able to fly slower without
stalling? I guess I can go back and check how much difference that makes,
but I fly final at least at 55 regardless, which is plenty above stall speed
with any flap setting. You guys tell me that the flap handle is there to
trim the airplane, but something about that doesn't square well. The faster
you go, the more the nose wants to rotate up; that is basic longitudinal
stability. To trim nose down, you must shift the center of lift backwards by
putting flaps down further. Flaps are drag, right? Now, let me see if I have
this straight. When I get to going fast, I either hold the stick pressure,
or I add drag. Putting flaps down is going to fix the problem one way or the
other because it is going to kill all the speed!Corollary question:What flap
setting gives the best speed
What are the three bolt holes at the leading edge of my horizontal stab? Am
I free to experiment with using any of the three? Since my stab struts do
not have turnbuckles, I would be warping the leading edge by choosing a
higher angle of incidence. Any problem with that?
One more thing regarding my 582. I have the carbs adjusted exactly even with
each other with open throttle, I can't get them any closer. I am seeing some
difference in EGT between cylinders at high power. Should I open up the
cooler one a few turns?
Wa-Hoo!, I am loving it.
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2, 767JD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189219#189219
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
A private pilot can fly a lsa airplane. A sport pilot can fly ANYTHING that
meets the guidelines for a light sport plane. I can only think of one
advantage in certifying EAB. That would be in flight adj prop. It would have to
be
removed before a sport pilot could legally fly it. Am I on the right page
here? I don't think it really matters how it's certified. Steve Bennett
Classic 4 1200 912ul.
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder seems stiff |
I raised the tail today seems pretty free. Took off the rudder pedals to gusset
them. I guess this is just due to to the non airfoil vertical fin? Both kitfox
IV's I flew in had the airfoil and seemed like less effort than this one.
I'll tape the gap and see if that doesn't make a difference. No I'm not pushing
both pedals but I agree that would be stupid.
thanks,
Nick
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189441#189441
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Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I will also say welcome back. By
the looks of the gear you built, you are an irreplaceable asset to a site l
ike this. You say your building again. I tell people I will be trying to ge
t out of the coffin to build something, anything. Do you happen to have blu
eprints of the gear you built? Even rough skeches with dimensions and mater
ial sizes?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> S
ubject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:44 -0700> >
To the list:> > I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it aga
in since flying > superceded the build experience, but then when there is n
o airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially c
ompleted kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
available. I am > currently working on all the things I learned to wish I
had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attached compression spring l
anding gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I
like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear
. The other major mod > is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replaci
ng them with an aluminum > leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to th
e stringer. I hope to > someday actually begin working on the airplane. Pic
tures of the landing > gear attached.> > Glad to be back and active.> > Low
ell Fitt
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| Subject: | Re: C Box and IVO props |
The call would be free if I chose to make it. I don't think there's an
issue. There is only one service bulletin I could find and it affects only
the ultralight IVO prop.
Read it yourself. http://www.ivoprop.com/servicebul2.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel Loveys
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: C Box and IVO props
As an added enticement, while talking to the prop folks you may come across
some related infl that they may be able to help with... Today phone calls
are cheap enough.
Noel
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot, which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked at
the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will only confuse
you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to "Certificate"
the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to US
from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk to my
local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that was imported
from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I have used my flaps in the reflex position and found that I can gain a
couple of extra miles per hr in cruise - I also have to use a little
forward pressure to counter the nose up trim.
Being a model 4, I don't have the serious reduction in aileron movement
when using flap so I experiment a lot with it.
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 / Jab2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
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| Subject: | Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Model 2 |
I concur, Gary. During Phase I, I experimented with flaps in reflex an
d found a few knots. I have the HS in the lowest position and a trim t
ab on the elevator. =0A=0ARoger=0AKF4-1200, 912UL=0A ----
- Original Message ----- =0A From: gary.algate@sandvik.com<mailto:
gary.algate@sandvik.com> =0A To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:
kitfox-list@matronics.com> =0A Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 4:39 PM
=0A Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Why do I have a flap handle? Mod
el 2=0A=0A=0A=0A I have used my flaps in the reflex posit
ion and found that I can gain a couple of extra miles per hr in cruise
- I also have to use a little forward pressure to counter the nose up
trim. =0A=0A Being a model 4, I don't have the serious reduc
tion in aileron movement when using flap so I experiment a lot with it
=0A=0A regards =0A=0A Gary=0A=0A Gary Algate
=0A Classic 4 / Jab2200=0A Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655=0A
=0A=0A This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of th
is message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is
prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify
us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your
system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissi
ons in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the
=======================
=======================
gator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
=======================
===============0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Tell me about the word "imported" and the FAA!! I didn't fly at all last
year because it took me the better part of a year to convince the FAA I
hadn't bought the Kitfox from the UK and imported it, but that I *owned* it
in the UK and moved here with it. They said they didn't have a form for
that, that they needed a bill of sale! They *finally* agreed to the CAA
de-registration original form and a notarized affidavit from me stating that
I owned the aircraft *before* I brought it here.
Hence why I am reluctant to contact the FAA as to the nature of the
now-valid registration, ie Experimental or Light Sport or what.
A search of the word "Certificate" on the FAA website only returns
"Registration Certificate", which I have, and "Airworthiness Certificate",
which I'm not sure that I need, for an actual aircraft. Other certificates
are Airman, A&P, Medical, etc, but not a single occurrence of the word
"certificate" as a verb.
I've been to the Harrisburg FSDO several times - no one there knows of can
find out. Also spoke to the CMO (Certificate Management Office) in Colorado,
again no real answers.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 7:15 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot,
which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you
say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook
entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local
FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked
at the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will
only confuse you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to
"Certificate" the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to
US from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk
to my local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that
was imported from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
apply.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: 23 June 2008 7:15 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or
both?
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Thanks Tom - but to carry the topic a bit further...
>
> According to kitfoxaircraft.com (http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/FAQ.htm#2)
> the Kitfox "qualifies for Light Sport Aircraft" but as you say the only
> reason to call it Light Sport seems to be to fly it as a Sport Pilot,
which
> allows you to skip a medical. I have a full PPL and continue to keep my
> medical certificate up-to-date, so I suppose Experimental is the proper
> designation for my Kitfox, although that choice wasn't available when I
> applied for my N-number registration. According to the online FAA database
> for my Kitfox it says "Type Registration = Individual".
>
> In the Airworthiness Certificate data field it says "none", which is true
> because I have not had that done and don't know if I need to. Below you
say
> that Experimentals only need an "annual condition inspection" logbook
entry,
> but the FAA doesn't know my aircraft is Experimental unless that goes with
> the Type and Model which are recorded as
> Model DENNEY KITFOX MK2
> Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine
>
> Should I be looking for an A&P mechanic to sign my logbook or the local
FAA
> Airworthiness inspector? Either way it's good to have a second opinion
> before returning to the air.
> --
Bob, I avoided the status of the imported kitfox on purpose because I looked
at the FAA website concering that and got overwelmed in a hurry. I will
only confuse you further trying to interpret FAA mumbo jumbo.
Here's what I think not what I know and is only my opinion.
I think what you have now is an N number registration. You also need to
"Certificate" the airplane.
I did some web searching and ran accross several articles about importing to
US from Canada but no specifics about importing from the UK. I would talk
to my local FSDO and explain that you want to "Certificate" a kitfox that
was imported from the UK.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189447#189447
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| Subject: | Re: New Model IV |
Pat,
I would be happy to help. I have a meeting to go to tonight and can give
some dimensions tomorrow. I'll tell give you a brief discription how I did
it. A friend gave me some basic measurements - height above the ground -
forward end of the forward mounting boltto the ground and the and track. I
then fixed the fuselage on a sawhorse level at that height and secured it.
I removed the tires and using the bare axles, I dropped a plumb line and
marked the floor exactly below the ends of the old tube gear. A line was
drawn through those line to give a fix on the wheel contact line in a fore
and aft direction. Then a plumb line down from the center of the fuselage
to give a center point on the wheel contact line. The total track was then
marked on that line to give the relative position of the ends of the axles.
I then used two lengths of 1X1X1/8" angle extending beyond the widest marks
on the line and welded a length of angle between them about 10" long. I now
had two parallel rails that were fixed to the floor with bondo with the line
between them. The plan is to use the rails to make fixtures on trollys that
fix the angle and location of the axles. Of angle iron and wood, I made
spacers about 1.3" high that rode on the rails essentially extending the
rail height that 1/3 inch. Then using tubing that exactly fit over the
axles, I welded up fixtures of angle iron that rode on the spacers to fix
the angle and location of the axle.
After the fixtures were finished. I removed the old landing gear, tapped out
the axles and using the fixtures without the spacers and mounted at the
appropriate distance on the rails positioned the axles at the desired
location for the new landing gear. The rest amounted to using the axles
mounted to the fixtures on the rails and the fuselage as a jig and cutting
and welding everything in place. Of course tack welding and then removing
to bench top height made the welding easier. I found that starting at the
axle and then working to the pivot points on the tops of the legs gave a
more accureate reslult given the warpage typical with welding.
The cabane strut was made pretty much the same way. I will send some detail
photos. For the spring strut, I used 3/4" .049 tubing and it wasn't until
after finishing the struts that I learned that the spring strut made for my
friend was 7/8 .049 tubing. These struts are commercially made and are
designed for airplanes heavier than the Model IV. I will stick with what I
have, but may go to the larger tubing if I make another set. The springs
themselves are available from Aircraft Spruce in their catalog. They are
heavy puppies and cost abour $90 per set.
I'll take a couple of photos of the jigs and track and send them also. Also
when welding up the final gear legs, I drilled and tapped holes in the jigs
through and into the tracks and placed bolts in them so nothing would move.
Questions - just ask. I doubt all this makes sense at first.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: New Model IV
Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I will also say welcome back. By
the looks of the gear you built, you are an irreplaceable asset to a site
like this. You say your building again. I tell people I will be trying to
get out of the coffin to build something, anything. Do you happen to have
blueprints of the gear you built? Even rough skeches with dimensions and
material sizes?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:44 -0700> >
To the list:> > I am back bulding again. I never thought I would do it again
since flying > superceded the build experience, but then when there is no
airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a 1992 partially
completed kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have some parts that are
available. I am > currently working on all the things I learned to wish I
had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attached compression spring
landing gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under the grove gear weight and I
like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit taller than the grove gear.
The other major mod > is the elimination of the upper false ribs, replacing
them with an aluminum > leading edge from the PVC leading edge aft to the
stringer. I hope to > someday actually begin working on the airplane.
Pictures of the landing > gear attached.> > Glad to be back and active.> >
Lowell Fitt
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
> Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
> or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
> apply.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Bob, attached is part of a document explaining importing aircraft I copied off
the AOPA web site. If I understand what I read, your kitfox may be eligible for
US Experimental amateur built airwortheness certificate based on it having
previously been issued a certificate in the UK. You will need to havre it inspected
by the FAA or a DAR (Designated Airworthness Representitive).
Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may be a good idea.
They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US Government.
I found early on in my career that the only way to get results from bureaucrats
is what the military calls completed staff work. You have to know what needs
doing and do most of it yourself and give them the finished paperwork for
approval, or at least tell them what forms need to be filled out and where they
can find them. In other words, you have to know more about the subject than
they do.
Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of a DAR that
is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189479#189479
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/establishing_airworthiness_for_non_168.doc
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both? |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> This http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8130-6d.pdf appears to be the
> Airworthiness Certificate form that allows type designation as Experimental
> or Light Sport, although I haven't completed one yet or decided how to
> apply.
>
> Bob Brennan
> 1991 Model 2 Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Bob, attached is part of a document explaining importing aircraft I copied off
the AOPA web site. If I understand what I read, your kitfox may be eligible for
US Experimental amateur built airwortheness certificate based on it having
previously been issued a certificate in the UK. You will need to havre it inspected
by the FAA or a DAR (Designated Airworthness Representitive).
Do you have access to a list of DARs near you? Contacting one may be a good idea.
They may know how to jump through the hoops already.
For what its worth. I am retired from working 30+ years for the US Government.
I found early on in my career that the only way to get results from bureaucrats
is what the military calls completed staff work. You have to know what needs
doing and do most of it yourself and give them the finished paperwork for
approval, or at least tell them what forms need to be filled out and where they
can find them. In other words, you have to know more about the subject than
they do.
Look this document over and chew on it for awhile then get ahold of a DAR that
is ready to tackle it. Good Luck!
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189484#189484
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/establishing_airworthiness_for_non_168.doc
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or |
both?
Steve=0AEach of your three staements is incomplete and best and blatently f
alse if taken as a true false test.=0AA private pilot can NOT fly a Trike o
r a Powered Parachute without instruction and signoff.- One of our lister
s died trying so I am a bit serious about- this being understood.=0ALikew
ise, a sport pilot can Not fly the whole range of light sport without check
outs in each type.=0AOnce any aircraft has had an adjustable prop on it, th
ere is no changing the registration to a Light sport,- thus a sport pilot
would not be legal to fly it.=0ASorry to be so picky but the Light Sport l
icense gives flying privedges for less training and less physical (medical)
but it is not so simple.- There are more extremely different types of ai
rcraft in the light sport catagory than there are in the general aviation c
atagory.- The control inputs for a Trike are the opposite of that for a s
tick and rudder plane and a powered parachute has a whole different set of
control inputs than either.=0ASo deciding how to register an aircraft requi
res may considerations that are specific to the aircraft its history, confo
rmance and potential and then the same has to be asked of the pilot; histor
y, conformance and potential.- The EAA had an article that listed the pro
cess for making the decision.- =0AJim Shumaker=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original
Message ----=0AFrom: "Sbennett3@aol.com" <Sbennett3@aol.com>=0ATo: kitfox-l
ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:53:19 PM=0ASubject: Re: K
itfox-List: Re: Kitfox Model II - Light Sport or Experimental or both?=0A
=0AA private pilot can fly a lsa airplane. A sport pilot can fly ANYTHING t
hat meets the guidelines for a light sport plane. I can only think of one a
dvantage in certifying EAB. That would be in flight adj prop. It would have
to be removed before a sport pilot could legally fly it.- Am I on the ri
ght page here?- I don't think it really matters how it's certified.- St
eve Bennett- Classic 4 1200 912ul. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________
_________=0AGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficien
-========================
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Lowell, Thanks for the quick detailed reply. I could follow the explainatio
n. Did you make jigs that allow you to produce the gear? It seems that with
the cost of Grove gear there would be a demand for your gear. Kits and com
plete gear sets might sell. I will wait for the remainding info. Where are
you located? Will you attend Oshkosh this year?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Su
bject: Re: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 18:43:58 -0700
> > Pat,> > I would be happy to help. I have a meeting to go to tonight and
can give > some dimensions tomorrow. I'll tell give you a brief discriptio
n how I did > it. A friend gave me some basic measurements - height above t
he ground - > forward end of the forward mounting boltto the ground and the
and track. I > then fixed the fuselage on a sawhorse level at that height
and secured it. > I removed the tires and using the bare axles, I dropped a
plumb line and > marked the floor exactly below the ends of the old tube g
ear. A line was > drawn through those line to give a fix on the wheel conta
ct line in a fore > and aft direction. Then a plumb line down from the cent
er of the fuselage > to give a center point on the wheel contact line. The
total track was then > marked on that line to give the relative position of
the ends of the axles.> > I then used two lengths of 1X1X1/8" angle extend
ing beyond the widest marks > on the line and welded a length of angle betw
een them about 10" long. I now > had two parallel rails that were fixed to
the floor with bondo with the line > between them. The plan is to use the r
ails to make fixtures on trollys that > fix the angle and location of the a
xles. Of angle iron and wood, I made > spacers about 1.3" high that rode on
the rails essentially extending the > rail height that 1/3 inch. Then usin
g tubing that exactly fit over the > axles, I welded up fixtures of angle i
ron that rode on the spacers to fix > the angle and location of the axle.>
> After the fixtures were finished. I removed the old landing gear, tapped
out > the axles and using the fixtures without the spacers and mounted at t
he > appropriate distance on the rails positioned the axles at the desired
> location for the new landing gear. The rest amounted to using the axles >
mounted to the fixtures on the rails and the fuselage as a jig and cutting
> and welding everything in place. Of course tack welding and then removin
g > to bench top height made the welding easier. I found that starting at t
he > axle and then working to the pivot points on the tops of the legs gave
a > more accureate reslult given the warpage typical with welding.> > The
cabane strut was made pretty much the same way. I will send some detail > p
hotos. For the spring strut, I used 3/4" .049 tubing and it wasn't until >
after finishing the struts that I learned that the spring strut made for my
> friend was 7/8 .049 tubing. These struts are commercially made and are >
designed for airplanes heavier than the Model IV. I will stick with what I
> have, but may go to the larger tubing if I make another set. The springs
> themselves are available from Aircraft Spruce in their catalog. They are
> heavy puppies and cost abour $90 per set.> > I'll take a couple of photo
s of the jigs and track and send them also. Also > when welding up the fina
l gear legs, I drilled and tapped holes in the jigs > through and into the
tracks and placed bolts in them so nothing would move.> > Questions - just
ask. I doubt all this makes sense at first.> > Lowell> > ----- Original Mes
sage ----- > From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>> To: <kitfox-
list@matronics.com>> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:25 PM> Subject: RE: Kitf
ox-List: New Model IV> > > > Lowell, I'm fairly new to this list. But, I wi
ll also say welcome back. By > the looks of the gear you built, you are an
irreplaceable asset to a site > like this. You say your building again. I t
ell people I will be trying to > get out of the coffin to build something,
anything. Do you happen to have > blueprints of the gear you built? Even ro
ugh skeches with dimensions and > material sizes?> > Pat Reilly> Mod 3 582
Rebuild> Rockford, IL > From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matroni
cs.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: New Model IV> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 12:33:
44 -0700> > > To the list:> > I am back bulding again. I never thought I wo
uld do it again > since flying > superceded the build experience, but then
when there is no > airplane....> > Thanks to the local grapevine, I found a
1992 partially > completed kit. It > was outfitted for the 582, so I have
some parts that are > available. I am > currently working on all the things
I learned to wish I > had on the original. > Just finished a cabane attach
ed compression spring > landing gear. It comes > in at about 8 lbs under th
e grove gear weight and I > like that. It has a > wider stance and is a bit
taller than the grove gear. > The other major mod > is the elimination of
the upper false ribs, replacing > them with an aluminum > leading edge from
the PVC leading edge aft to the > stringer. I hope to > someday actually b
egin working on the airplane. > Pictures of the landing > gear attached.> >
=================> > >
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