---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/10/08: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:03 AM - S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (darinh) 2. 05:59 AM - Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (Tom Jones) 3. 06:08 AM - Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (Vic Baker) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: Re: GSC prop pitch angle (Noel Loveys) 5. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: GSC prop pitch angle (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk) 6. 09:23 AM - Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (darinh) 7. 10:09 AM - Info and mounting Amphibs to Series 5 (A H) 8. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (Noel Loveys) 9. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (fox5flyer) 10. 06:19 PM - Re: Hard Baggage System (Guy Buchanan) 11. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Cargo area? (Guy Buchanan) 12. 06:39 PM - Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? (C David Estapa) 13. 10:04 PM - Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? (JetPilot) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:25 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? From: "darinh" Well, I have the DAR scheduled for Monday morning at 9 am. Did the W&B tonight and came up with 855 lb empty (includes oil and coolant). I did have a question though for those that have a Series 5 thru 7. The manual shows the datum (leading edge of wing at the root) to be just in front of the mains (center of axle). My datum ended up opposite and just behind the main axles by 2 3/8" when she is level (the gear are in the correct orientation). What have others found? Also, when in level attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 lbs. Looking at the example in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see the tailwheel showing like 165 lbs or something in that range. Are these values in the example table simply arbitrary numbers that were pulled out of the air when Skystar wrote the manual? What do others have (actual weights) for their mains and tailwheels? Just want to check if my scales were reading correctly. As a side note, I am happy with the weight as I was estimating closer to 875 lbs. just on the gut feel. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Final Assembly) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192090#192090 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? From: "Tom Jones" > Also, when in level attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 lbs. Looking at the example in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see the tailwheel showing like 165 lbs or something in that range. Are these values in the example table simply arbitrary numbers that were pulled out of the air when Skystar wrote the manual? Darihn, I don't have a 5 or 7 but can say for sure the 165 pound tail wheel weight is a mistake. That would be closer to being the tail wheel arm in inches. My Classic 4 tail wheel weighs 35 pounds when the fuselage is level. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192110#192110 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:51 AM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? Darinh, My manual, section M page 86, indicates Nose/Tailwheel at 195 lbs. Given the indicated arm of -35.4 I conclude that is for the nosewheel. My 7, as I believe is also yours, is conventional gear (with tailwheel). My weight came in at 827 lbs. The arm (level position) at -2.38 on the main axles. My weight on the tail wheel is 71 lbs. (seems a little heavy, don't know what that is all about....) Your numbers look fine to me. Hope this helps. Vic Vic Baker S7 912S Warp 100% Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "darinh" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:00 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? > > Well, I have the DAR scheduled for Monday morning at 9 am. Did the W&B > tonight and came up with 855 lb empty (includes oil and coolant). I did > have a question though for those that have a Series 5 thru 7. > > The manual shows the datum (leading edge of wing at the root) to be just > in front of the mains (center of axle). My datum ended up opposite and > just behind the main axles by 2 3/8" when she is level (the gear are in > the correct orientation). What have others found? Also, when in level > attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 lbs. Looking at the example > in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see the tailwheel showing like 165 lbs > or something in that range. Are these values in the example table simply > arbitrary numbers that were pulled out of the air when Skystar wrote the > manual? What do others have (actual weights) for their mains and > tailwheels? Just want to check if my scales were reading correctly. > > As a side note, I am happy with the weight as I was estimating closer to > 875 lbs. just on the gut feel. > > -------- > Darin Hawkes > Series 7 (Final Assembly) > 914 Turbo > Kaysville, Utah > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192090#192090 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:47 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle Jim I recently got a digital inclinometer. It is supposed to be accurate to 1/10 of a degree. Cost was less than $30.CDN. I have made other inclinometers using basic grade 8 math and a plumb bob. Accuracy was better than .2 of a degree. Only problem with that is any draft at all will throw off the readings. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 12:21 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle A few years ago when I had a GSC prop, I made a jig that fit on the prop blade and held a small lazer on the jig. It would shine a beam of lazer light accross the hangar and make a spot on the wall, I would mark the spot and then use the jig on each blade in turn to get them all exactly the same. You could get the spot to move 1/4" at about 20 feet just by tightening the bolts different. The jig was made so it fit exactly the same on each blade and I know the prop ran very smooth. I also used it on a Powerfin prop. Jim Chuk Avids, Kitfox 4 Mn > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle > Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:54:14 -0230 > > > I levelled my plane and made a jig to level each prop in it's rotation. The > problem I had is as the prop bolts were tightened the angle on the blades > would shift. I found out the prop was only about fifteen years out of time > so I bought an Ivo IFA. Now I'm in the throes of installing a 912 and a two > blade warp came with it. Oh my... more fun!! > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 5:42 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle > > > Sorry about that. I should have included that critical measurement. The > pitch angle measurements were all taken on the back of the prop blade at > 25.5" from the prop hub center. > > Thanks, > > -------- > Kyle Dunn > Eddyville, Kentucky > Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax > 1978 Cessna 172 N > American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax > Rotorway Exec. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192013#192013 > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > > > _____ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get started. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:35 AM PST US From: Jim_and_Lucy Chuk Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle Noel=2C I was just out to the hangar=2C I was going to take a picture of t he lazer adjuster I made. I couldn't find it. Basicly=2C it was made from a 1"X4"X about 16" long. It had 5 pins that made contact with the sides o f the blade=2C one at the tip=2C and 2 across from each other near the tip and 2 more about 1' down the blade. They would all fit just snug against t he blade so there was no movement sideways. 4 round head screw also touche d the face of the prop blade=2C screwed in to the 1X4 different amounts to match the twist in the blade. It was held on the blade with two large rubb er bands=2C and the lazer which is about the size of a tape measure was mou nted on the back side of the 1X4. I would pull the sparkplugs so the engin e would turn over easy and not move the plane at all=2C set it on the first blade and make a mark on the wall where the lazer hit=2C usually about 20' away=2C then move it to the next blade=2C adjust that blade to hit the sam e spot=2C then the third blade the same way. It really worked good to get a ll the blades exactly the same=2C although it didn't tell you what angle th ey were at. Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Re: GSC prop pitch angleDate: Thu=2C 10 Jul 2008 11:04:10 -0230 Jim I recently got a digital inclinometer. It is supposed to be accurate t o 1/10 of a degree. Cost was less than $30.CDN. I have made other inclino meters using basic grade 8 math and a plumb bob. Accuracy was better than .2 of a degree. Only problem with that is any draft at all will throw off the readings. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim_and_Lucy ChukSent: Thursday=2C July 10 =2C 2008 12:21 AMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle A few years ago when I had a GSC prop=2C I made a jig that fit on the prop blade and held a small lazer on the jig. It would shine a beam of lazer li ght accross the hangar and make a spot on the wall=2C I would mark the spot and then use the jig on each blade in turn to get them all exactly the sam e. You could get the spot to move 1/4" at about 20 feet just by tightening the bolts different. The jig was made so it fit exactly the same on each blade and I know the prop ran very smooth. I also used it on a Powerfin pr op. Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca> To: kitf ox-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle> : "Noel Loveys" > > I levelled my plane and made a jig to level each prop in it's rotation. The> problem I had is as the prop bol ts were tightened the angle on the blades> would shift. I found out the pro p was only about fifteen years out of time> so I bought an Ivo IFA. Now I'm in the throes of installing a 912 and a two> blade warp came with it. Oh m y... more fun!!> > Noel> > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-l ist-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] O n Behalf Of Kyle> Sent: Wednesday=2C July 09=2C 2008 5:42 PM> To: kitfox-li st@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: GSC prop pitch angle> > --> Kit fox-List message posted by: "Kyle" > > Sorry about that. I should have included that critical measurement. The> pitch angle m easurements were all taken on the back of the prop blade at> 25.5" from the prop hub center.> > Thanks=2C> > --------> Kyle Dunn> Eddyville=2C Kentuck y> Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax > 1978 Cessna 172 N> American Aero Phoenix II w /582 Rotax> Rotorway Exec.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http:// forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192013#192013> > > > > > > > > > > ============> > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Ge t started. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.ma tronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________________________ Need to know now? Get instant answers with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_messenger_072008 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? From: "darinh" Vic, My mains came out the same -2.38" (forward of Datum). Tom, Don't I look like an idiot! I didn't even notice the arm in the example...just assumed it was a tailwheel example because that is what I am building. Makes much more sense as a nosewheel. Thanks guys for the replies...Airworthiness here we come! -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Done - Waiting on Airworthiness) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192154#192154 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:39 AM PST US From: A H Subject: Kitfox-List: Info and mounting Amphibs to Series 5 Anyone have guidelines for mounting floats/amphibs to a Kitfox? I have a se t of Murphy 1650 amphibs that I will be mounting to a Series 5. Any info w ould be appreciated. Andy _________________________________________________________________ The i=92m Talkaton. Can 30-days of conversation change the world? http://www.imtalkathon.com/?source=EML_WLH_Talkathon_ChangeWorld ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:48 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? 165lb. sounds like it may be the weight on the tail wheel with the wings folded. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:26 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? > Also, when in level attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 lbs. Looking at the example in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see the tailwheel showing like 165 lbs or something in that range. Are these values in the example table simply arbitrary numbers that were pulled out of the air when Skystar wrote the manual? Darihn, I don't have a 5 or 7 but can say for sure the 165 pound tail wheel weight is a mistake. That would be closer to being the tail wheel arm in inches. My Classic 4 tail wheel weighs 35 pounds when the fuselage is level. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192110#192110 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:53 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? Even that seems a bit high. Deke do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:37 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? > > 165lb. sounds like it may be the weight on the tail wheel with the wings > folded. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 10:26 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? > > > >> Also, when in level attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 lbs. > Looking at the example in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see the > tailwheel > showing like 165 lbs or something in that range. Are these values in the > example table simply arbitrary numbers that were pulled out of the air > when > Skystar wrote the manual? > > > Darihn, I don't have a 5 or 7 but can say for sure the 165 pound tail > wheel > weight is a mistake. That would be closer to being the tail wheel arm in > inches. My Classic 4 tail wheel weighs 35 pounds when the fuselage is > level. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192110#192110 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:28 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Hard Baggage System At 10:21 AM 7/9/2008, you wrote: >I remember when you posted the info and pictures of your hard >baggage system last year. I thought I could go back to it when I got >ready. WRONG!!! I've looked and looked and looked and I still can't >find that post. >If you could post the information and pictures again I sure would >appreciate it and I'm sure Chris would appreciate it too. Kyle, I've got to talk to Matt. I found the message, but no pictures. I didn't think the archive system stripped them out. Major bummer. I'll re-send the previous message so you and Chris can get the pictures. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:22 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Cargo area? >I was wondering as well how you gain acess to that area do I need ot >make a trap door in the side. Mine is accessed from the slope behind and above the seats. The opening is small, probably 18 x 18, which limits what you can put in. You certainly won't be putting in any folding bicycles! You can, however, get camping gear in, as long as it's separated. (You can't get a full size backpack in.) I've attached three pictures. One shows the baggage opening behind the seat. One shows half the baggage opening with the baggage structure, but no side panels, and one good shot of the baggage structure without the panels. Unfortunately I don't presently have any shots with panels, but the panels are honeycomb glass on the bottom and corrugated plastic on the sides. The baggage structure is the silver aluminum angles. The white tubes are fuselage structure and the silver tubes are fuel lines. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: S7-914 Empty Weight...and questions? From: C David Estapa I have the 912 ULS in a Series 5. Weights are Left Main 390 lbs, Right Main 376 Lbs, Tail wheel 67 lbs for a total of 833 lbs. C. David Estapa Woodstock, Georgia N97DE S5 TD 912ULS On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 01:00:26 -0700 "darinh" writes: > > Well, I have the DAR scheduled for Monday morning at 9 am. Did the > W&B tonight and came up with 855 lb empty (includes oil and > coolant). I did have a question though for those that have a Series > 5 thru 7. > > The manual shows the datum (leading edge of wing at the root) to be > just in front of the mains (center of axle). My datum ended up > opposite and just behind the main axles by 2 3/8" when she is level > (the gear are in the correct orientation). What have others found? > Also, when in level attitude, the weight on the tailwheel was 53 > lbs. Looking at the example in the manual (Section M pg. 86) I see > the tailwheel showing like 165 lbs or something in that range. Are > these values in the example table simply arbitrary numbers that were > pulled out of the air when Skystar wrote the manual? What do others > have (actual weights) for their mains and tailwheels? Just want to > check if my scales were reading correctly. > > As a side note, I am happy with the weight as I was estimating > closer to 875 lbs. just on the gut feel. > > -------- > Darin Hawkes > Series 7 (Final Assembly) > 914 Turbo > Kaysville, Utah > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192090#192090 > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ Fabulous Spa Getaway! Enter for your chance to WIN great beauty prizes everyday! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7VOAuq7lpSZnvUurlFuzLSuvKYGU10FZBnsWVtPAj4xTXDl/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:45 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? From: "JetPilot" I am trying to get an idea of the capabilities of the Kitfox, and am wondering how this plane does when one pushes the envelope a bit. Is the Kitfox docile enough in a spin that anyone does it in a regular basis ? I used to spin my Cessna 150 Aerobat all the time, and could pretty much exit the spin on whatever heading I wanted. Does the Kitfox compare to a Cessna in a Spin ? I also saw this video on the Kitfox website of a Kitfox doing aerobatics. Anyone do loops and rolls on a regular basis ? I am not looking to do any crazy, or extreme aerobatics, or even near the ground, I'm to chicken for that ! I would like to do the occasional Loop and Roll once in a while... Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192229#192229 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.