Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Brian Morissette)
2. 03:12 AM - Re: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? (Michel Verheughe)
3. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic Lock (Lowell Fitt)
5. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock (Lowell Fitt)
6. 07:21 AM - Wanted Terra Transponder tray (bigboyzt0yz)
7. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock (Clint Bazzill)
8. 08:45 AM - Throttle Cables (Kyle)
9. 11:44 AM - FS: Poly-Fiber Materials (darinh)
10. 12:49 PM - Re: FS: Poly-Fiber Materials (Dan Billingsley)
11. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? ()
12. 07:09 PM - Re: Throttle Cables (pperrynas)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
Hi
I have just installed a 912 and haven't experienced the hydraulic lock yet.
I have been following some of this thread and was wondering if anyone has
given any thought to installing a check valve in the hose from the crank
case bottom. This would stop the return flow of oil from the reservoir to
the crank case.
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: July 13, 2008 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
Pete,
I have thought a lot about this over the years and even made a device that
would minimize back flow but never installed it because it would have meant
cutting the oil pick-up tube in the tank and I never could get myself to do
that. The thought did occur to me as I read your post, that my oil pressure
would routinely rise to operating pressure during cranking. I used the
method devised by Clint Bazzill where I would crank for several seconds with
the ignition off then crank with the ignition on for a quick start. If a
pilot was disciplined enough to carefully monitor the oil pressure during
initial cranking, forgetting to open a valve would not be an issue as it
would be immediately obvious.
Then with most runways a distanced away from the start area, I suspect there
would never be a chance to take to the air with no oil flow. I suspect for
the most part the preflight valve check would be engine saving rather than
bacon saving.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:44 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
> <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I had my first taste of hydraulic lock today. I was away for 2 weeks and
> this am I went to turn over my 912 and the prop would not budge. Someone
> suggested putting a shut off valve in the oil line to prevent the drain
> down. What if 2 valves were put in line parallel and one was electrically
> operated to open when you start your engine and the other was a manual
> valve that you would open by hand before flight. That would prevent
> taking off with the oil shut off. Anyone know it this would be feasable?
>
> Pete
> Kitfox III 912ul
> Hell Paso, TX
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? |
> From: mdkitfox@aol.com
> Multi engine airplanes are different animals than singles.
Thanks Rick and Noel.
I read that the PIC was 62 years old and the instructor. I was simply wondering
how such a training flight could end up so bad. Certainly the instructor was
aware of the flight characteristic of that aircraft and aware of icing, if ever
it was. The Norwegian sea is warmed by the Gulfstream and the 0-isotherm is
seldom under FL 100 in the summer but ... who knows.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock |
Lowell,
I am going on another trip for a few weeks and my model 4 will be idle. I
tried your method of letting the oil cool prior to burping the tank so that the
siphoning would occur at a slower rate.It does help. It drops about 3/8 inch
a day on the dipstick. In a two week period it will be off the bottom of the
dipstick. My question is," Can it drop so far as to induce air into the system
?" If the oil goes below the end of the oil pickup line I think it could
happen. Not a good thing.
I haven't had a hydraulic lock yet but expect it at some time.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
912UL
Pensacola,Fl
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hydraulic Lock |
Brian,
The problem with a check valve is that the oil flow direction during the
siphoning is in the same direction as the oil flow during operation - from
the tank through the pick up tube, past the oil pump and into the crank
case. The oil return line is above the oil level in the tank and won't
reverse flow.
Regarding hydraulic lock. I never experienced it in nine years of flying my
Model IV. I have no idea why some do and some don't.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Morissette" <brianm@snolab.ca>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 2:43 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
>
> Hi
>
> I have just installed a 912 and haven't experienced the hydraulic lock
> yet.
> I have been following some of this thread and was wondering if anyone has
> given any thought to installing a check valve in the hose from the crank
> case bottom. This would stop the return flow of oil from the reservoir to
> the crank case.
> Brian
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
> Sent: July 13, 2008 10:23 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
>
>
> Pete,
>
> I have thought a lot about this over the years and even made a device that
> would minimize back flow but never installed it because it would have
> meant
> cutting the oil pick-up tube in the tank and I never could get myself to
> do
> that. The thought did occur to me as I read your post, that my oil
> pressure
> would routinely rise to operating pressure during cranking. I used the
> method devised by Clint Bazzill where I would crank for several seconds
> with
> the ignition off then crank with the ignition on for a quick start. If a
> pilot was disciplined enough to carefully monitor the oil pressure during
> initial cranking, forgetting to open a valve would not be an issue as it
> would be immediately obvious.
>
> Then with most runways a distanced away from the start area, I suspect
> there
> would never be a chance to take to the air with no oil flow. I suspect
> for
> the most part the preflight valve check would be engine saving rather than
> bacon saving.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pete Christensen" <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 4:44 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic Lock
>
>
>> <apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> I had my first taste of hydraulic lock today. I was away for 2 weeks and
>> this am I went to turn over my 912 and the prop would not budge. Someone
>> suggested putting a shut off valve in the oil line to prevent the drain
>> down. What if 2 valves were put in line parallel and one was
>> electrically
>
>> operated to open when you start your engine and the other was a manual
>> valve that you would open by hand before flight. That would prevent
>> taking off with the oil shut off. Anyone know it this would be feasable?
>>
>> Pete
>> Kitfox III 912ul
>> Hell Paso, TX
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock |
Dick,
That is in interesting question that I have never considered. I have flown
lots of times after having burped the crank case after not seeing oil on the
dipstick. After the engine tightened up and it had less bypass passed the
rings, it would take over a hundred blades to get the burp. For some
reason, I never worried about air in the system, even though I was well
aware of Rotax's recommendation on "venting" after an oil change.
I don't have a any idea if it is a problem, but it is certainly conceivable
to introduce air at least into the pick up tube.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <Catz631@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock
> Lowell,
> I am going on another trip for a few weeks and my model 4 will be idle. I
> tried your method of letting the oil cool prior to burping the tank so
> that the
> siphoning would occur at a slower rate.It does help. It drops about 3/8
> inch
> a day on the dipstick. In a two week period it will be off the bottom of
> the
> dipstick. My question is," Can it drop so far as to induce air into the
> system
> ?" If the oil goes below the end of the oil pickup line I think it could
> happen. Not a good thing.
> I haven't had a hydraulic lock yet but expect it at some time.
>
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4-1200
> 912UL
> Pensacola,Fl
>
>
> **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live
> music
> scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
> (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Wanted Terra Transponder tray |
I am looking for a transponder SS tray and the wiring for my used Transopnder.
Does any one have one thaey want to sell ?
--------
Lee Fritz in owings Mills Md. 2002 KitFox-IV Classic/912UL/Warp drive prop/100%
Complete (just adding the Extras now) /71 hours time on plane since Aug 07 "Have
your feet on the Pedals and keep reaching for the sky".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192650#192650
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock |
It would be nice to have a air fitting on the crankcase and just put in a l
ittle compressed air.
About the turning the engine by hand=2C over one hundred for me also. It s
eems if you can turn it by hand=2C why not check to make sure no oil is in
the cylinders and crank engine with ignition off. Same effect only a hundr
ed times easier and a lot faster.
Clint> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject:
Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock> Date: Mon=2C 14 Jul 2008
@sbcglobal.net>> > Dick=2C> > That is in interesting question that I have n
ever considered. I have flown > lots of times after having burped the crank
case after not seeing oil on the > dipstick. After the engine tightened up
and it had less bypass passed the > rings=2C it would take over a hundred
blades to get the burp. For some > reason=2C I never worried about air in t
he system=2C even though I was well > aware of Rotax's recommendation on "v
enting" after an oil change.> > I don't have a any idea if it is a problem
=2C but it is certainly conceivable > to introduce air at least into the pi
ck up tube.> > Lowell> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Catz631@aol.
com>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>> Sent: Monday=2C July 14=2C 2008 4:57
AM> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Hydraulic LockHydraulic Lock> > > > Lowe
ll=2C> > I am going on another trip for a few weeks and my model 4 will be
idle. I> > tried your method of letting the oil cool prior to burping the t
ank so > > that the> > siphoning would occur at a slower rate.It does help.
It drops about 3/8 > > inch> > a day on the dipstick. In a two week period
it will be off the bottom of > > the> > dipstick. My question is=2C" Can i
t drop so far as to induce air into the > > system> > ?" If the oil goes be
low the end of the oil pickup line I think it could> > happen. Not a good t
hing.> > I haven't had a hydraulic lock yet but expect it at some time.> >>
> Dick Maddux> > Fox 4-1200> > 912UL> > Pensacola=2CFl> >> >> >> > *******
*******Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live > > music>
> scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!> > (http://www.tourtracke
====================> > >
Message 8
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On my recently acquired Kitfox IV-1200 w/912UL the throttle cables were replaced
and not adjusted before I bought it. I have adjusted the cables and synchronized
the carbs. The throttle cables from the bell crank to the carburetor are
stranded cables, not solid wire. Is this what it's suppose to have? It looks like
there is a possibility of the cables flexing instead of being rigid enough
to be able to push the carburetor arms forward.
Thanks,
--------
Kyle Dunn
Eddyville, Kentucky
Kitfox IV 1200 912 Rotax
1978 Cessna 172 N
American Aero Phoenix II w/582 Rotax
Rotorway Exec.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192662#192662
Message 9
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| Subject: | FS: Poly-Fiber Materials |
I have an unopened gallon of Poly-Spray, 2 guarts of R65-75 reducer and 2 quarts
of Poly-Brush (again, all unopened) that I don't need. I ordered this in May
to finish of my 7 so it is still fresh. $115 shipped UPS ground in the US.
Email if you want it.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Airworthiness in Hand - building courage for Maiden flight)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192694#192694
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: FS: Poly-Fiber Materials |
Exciting times Darin, Did you get your temperature questions answered?
Dan
darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
I have an unopened gallon of Poly-Spray, 2 guarts of R65-75 reducer and 2 quarts
of Poly-Brush (again, all unopened) that I don't need. I ordered this in May
to finish of my 7 so it is still fresh. $115 shipped UPS ground in the US. Email
if you want it.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Airworthiness in Hand - building courage for Maiden flight)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192694#192694
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ??? |
I don't think most people that flew the Metro considered it to be all that
powerful. In fact the early models were so bad that they had a Jado bottle in
the tail just in case you lost an engine on takeoff to give you afew seconds to
get altitude and hopefully stay airborne. Also I think the horizonal stab on
the Metro was half way up the tail like the Jetstream 31, in which case may have
had the same problem with tail plane stall under certain configurations.The
Jetstream also had a caution on tail plane icing that if it was allowed to build
the tail plane could stall before the wing. Leon Morris/Classic 4/ 65%/
Flower Mound, TX
---- Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
> Michel:
>
> My best guess, and that's all it is, would be icing. Everything seems to
> fit for that. A large body of salt water, twin engine with lots of power
> and IFR. I lost a friend many years ago for what we guess was the same
> reason. He was flying a Grumman Widgeon... They eventually found his
> leather flight jacket... inside out.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
> Verheughe
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:57 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Anyone Do Spins or Aerobatics in a Kitfox ???
>
> > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> > I just started to do some 90 bank, 180 turns in my IV
>
> ... Holy cow! I feel sick simply by reading your emails, guys!
> What I don't understand is that, a few weeks ago a Norwegian Coast Guard
> twin engine plane (Swearingen SA-226T Merlin III) went down in the sea,
> killing the three people on board. The weather was not good but they were
> out on an IFR training.
> Now, I hear that the first report based on the analysis of the wreck says:
> They went in a stall at about 6,000 ft.
> ... how can you dive to death doing a stall that hight? A flat spin? I don't
> get it.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color=000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.c
> om/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
> bution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle Cables |
Kyle, I too have recently purchased a KF IV 1200 with the 80hp Rotax and that is
the same throttle cable wire I have. I have read several of the threads regarding
the throttle springs (which are fairly forceful) and have concluded the
following. The throttle springs assist in moving the throttle forward(open) and
act as a safety feature in case the cable breaks, then they would move to full
open. It has taken me some time to get use to the system and the required use
and constant adjustment of the friction lock depending on whether I'm taking
off/cruise/ or landing modes..but have found it is doable. I think I would
like a vernier setup, but I'm not sure how to set that up (parts needed etc) for
a system with dual carbs. Hope this helps, although I'm sure someone with
more mechanical/technical knowledge and skills will probably answer your question
more thoroughly. By the way, I fly into KY Dam airport frequently so maybe
I'll run (figurative) into you sometime. Paul Perry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192766#192766
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