Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - Re: Re: Flying in the rain (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: corrosion proofing wing spars questions (Lynn Matteson)
3. 09:33 AM - Belly Stringer ()
4. 11:11 AM - Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? (steve eccles)
5. 11:12 AM - Re: Belly Stringer (Lowell Fitt)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? (Lynn Matteson)
7. 01:17 PM - Re: Flying in the rain (Michel Verheughe)
8. 01:46 PM - Re: Flying in the rain (n85ae)
9. 02:26 PM - Re: Re: Flying in the rain (Lynn Matteson)
10. 02:30 PM - Re: Flying in the rain (Michel Verheughe)
11. 03:13 PM - Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? (kirk hull)
12. 06:26 PM - Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? (Lynn Matteson)
13. 08:01 PM - Re: Flying in the rain (JetPilot)
14. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: Flying in the rain (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Flying in the rain |
Michel:
Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate and can
become loose. As we all fly at some altitude where it's colder it's my
guess that the best thing to do is to torque the bolts when everything is
around 20 C.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 7:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Flying in the rain
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> Your bolts may not have moved, but how is the torque on them?
I check that at each annual, Lynn. Here is what I figure: I installed my
engine during the Norwegian winter. My annual is also coming in February. It
is better to test the torque when the climatic conditions are the same. Does
it make sense?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: corrosion proofing wing spars questions |
There is also a product called "Invisible Gloves #1211" that can be
rubbed on your hands. The label on my container is almost worn out,
but I can still almost make out "Sun Magic International..." There
is a NSN #6850-01-416-8443 on the container. I got it with some model
airplane stuff from Stits a few years back. In the video that I
followed for covering my models, it said to rub the Invisible Gloves
on your hands and "you can almost wash your hands in MEK without
concern." This video went ot great lengths to warn against breathing
the stuff (MEK), so to say you could almost wash in MEK is giving
this Glove stuff" a pretty good report.
Thanks to this thread, I just looked for and found my can of the
stuff, and because I'm touching up some hangar rash on my 'fox, I'll
be using it again.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 12:00 AM, n85ae wrote:
> The smell is mostly MEK and a
> few other solvents, and they won't kill you if you don't concentrate
> the stuff and breathe it.
>
> I prep aluminum parts for riveting with it all the time with a brush,
> you just do it in a well ventilated area and keep it off your skin.
> No big
> deal.
>
> Of course I was out in the garage acetylene welding in a tee shirt,
> shorts
> and a pair of crocs the other night without gloves, so maybe I'm not
> the best advisor... :)
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
>> I'm getting the quickbuild wings. Any suggestion on how to "slosh"
>> zinc chromate around without damaging the wings or killing yourself?
>>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194660#194660
>
>
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Iv'e already talked to Lynn off list about this, but would like to hear from
someone to confirm his or my opnion on this. The instructions say to epoxy the
front end, then safety wire the stringer where it crosses the bottom tubes
of the fuselage except the last one at the tow bar cross tube. I did this, but
there is a tube below the elevator push/pull tube carry thru bearing that does
not tough the stinger and I was wondering if it should be pulled up and safety
wired,or left alone to make a straight line down the belly? Leon Morris/Classic
4/want a Jab/65%/ Flower Mound,Tx
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| Subject: | Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? |
I wish I was ...Brodhead is always a good time
Steve Eccles
Kitfox 5
0-200
N642SE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:04 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
Is anyone going to Brodhead, WI, on their way to Osh? A couple of
local fliers are heading there on Thursday, and I'm altering my trip
to include that fly-in, if all goes well.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Belly Stringer |
Leon,
I just looked at mine. I inherited it from a previous builder and he sucked
it up and safety wired it there. I am going to leave it. As I recall
looking at lots of Model IVs, that part of the fueseage is sort of wasp
waisted there due to the stringer being safety wired to that tube. Keep in
mind that after shrinking the fabric, the stringer won't be going anywhere
and safety wire is simply to hold everything in place until that time. My
concern in not tightening it down (up) would be that after shrinking, the
fabric won't have a solid base in that area if the stringer is not backed by
the tube.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: <l.morris@tx.rr.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Belly Stringer
>
> Iv'e already talked to Lynn off list about this, but would like to hear
> from someone to confirm his or my opnion on this. The instructions say to
> epoxy the front end, then safety wire the stringer where it crosses the
> bottom tubes of the fuselage except the last one at the tow bar cross
> tube. I did this, but there is a tube below the elevator push/pull tube
> carry thru bearing that does not tough the stinger and I was wondering if
> it should be pulled up and safety wired,or left alone to make a straight
> line down the belly? Leon Morris/Classic 4/want a Jab/65%/ Flower
> Mound,Tx
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? |
I got good reports of their doings, so I thought I'd swing out of my
way and go there...besides, going that way I'm not tempted to do the
"o'r the water" flight. : )
Thanks for the response, Steve.
I just sprayed a few "ouches" on my plane, including a flaperon tip
that I dinged even before the airworthiness inspector put his seal of
approval on the plane.
I leave outta here at first light tomorrow, headed for Brodhead. Hope
to see a bunch of 'foxers at OSH.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, steve eccles wrote:
> <eccles@chartermi.net>
>
> I wish I was ...Brodhead is always a good time
> Steve Eccles
> Kitfox 5
> 0-200
> N642SE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:04 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
>
>
> Is anyone going to Brodhead, WI, on their way to Osh? A couple of
> local fliers are heading there on Thursday, and I'm altering my trip
> to include that fly-in, if all goes well.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/550+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: Flying in the rain |
> From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca]
> Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate and can
> become loose.
Gosh, Noel and Lynn, are you trying to make scare the hell out of me? :-)
Okay, I know that wood, metal and ... some parts of my body are longer when it
is warm ... but what can I do?
Should I check the prop bolts at each pre-flight? When I test the bolts, should
I first unscrew them, then tight them to the right torque? Because they are either
too tight or not enough. If they are too tight, then the only way to fix
it is to slack them first, right?
Now, I haven't been flying a lot but I sailed a lot. I know that when I start a
new long distance sailing, whatever I have screwed need to be checked. So, I
do that ... for a week. Anything that withstand the constant motion of the vessel
more than a week is going to remain tight until the end of time (22 Dec 2012,
if you believe the latest doomsday prophety :-)
Anyway, my bolts haven't moved since I installed the engine and apart from checking
the torque one a year ... I don't feel very much like fixing something that
seems to work ... or, should I?
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
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| Subject: | Re: Flying in the rain |
I retorque mine every 50 hours, or when we get a major seasonal change
for example where it has been very humid for a while, then becomes very
dry, or the other. Actually after the wood settles down over a couple years
I think it stays pretty tight. Mostly when the wood initially compresses
you get some looseness.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194765#194765
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Flying in the rain |
Ya got me there, Michel. When I worked as a driver/mechanic for
Chrysler Corp., we would always check torque in the tightening
direction. If it checked out at at least the approved torque, we'd
leave it alone. But working with wood, and given the fear that they
strike into our hearts with the "too loose is a problem" and "too
tight is a problem" I check in the tightening direction, and if too
tight (prop is filled with water...just kidding) I loosen and re-
tighten to the torque specs (120-140 inch-pounds over on this side of
the big pond) If too loose, I just torque to the above specs.
I personally feel that each flight is too often. I would have to
remove the spinner from mine before checking, and that would take a
few minutes. The humidity here stays pretty even for long periods, so
my routine of every 60 hours or so, suits me just fine.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 4:14 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca]
>> Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate
>> and can
>> become loose.
>
> Gosh, Noel and Lynn, are you trying to make scare the hell out of
> me? :-)
> Okay, I know that wood, metal and ... some parts of my body are
> longer when it is warm ... but what can I do?
> Should I check the prop bolts at each pre-flight? When I test the
> bolts, should I first unscrew them, then tight them to the right
> torque? Because they are either too tight or not enough. If they
> are too tight, then the only way to fix it is to slack them first,
> right?
>
> Now, I haven't been flying a lot but I sailed a lot. I know that
> when I start a new long distance sailing, whatever I have screwed
> need to be checked. So, I do that ... for a week. Anything that
> withstand the constant motion of the vessel more than a week is
> going to remain tight until the end of time (22 Dec 2012, if you
> believe the latest doomsday prophety :-)
>
> Anyway, my bolts haven't moved since I installed the engine and
> apart from checking the torque one a year ... I don't feel very
> much like fixing something that seems to work ... or, should I?
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
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| Subject: | Re: Flying in the rain |
> From: n85ae [n85ae@yahoo.com]
> I retorque mine every 50 hours
When you do that, Jeff, do you loosen first the bolt or do you just check with
the torque wrench as we do for the cylinder head bolts?
Another thing I wanted to ask about rain: How are you, guys, handling it? I mean,
say that the WX is for rain showers. Do you take a chance to fly then if you
meet a shower, you fly around it? What kind of rain intensity makes you do
a 180 and go home? Apart from loosing sight, what can rain be a problem for? How
does it affect an air-cooled engine like the Jabiru? Is there any danger for
the thin lexan windscreen?
The reason I ask is that, lately, I have cancelled a few trips because the weather
was uncertain. Now, I'd like to know if I should be a bit bolder in my fly
/ no-fly decisions.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? |
I have been to Brodhead for the last few years and plan to go again this
year. I will be there sat afternoon. If you go be sure to get you ticket
got the dinner as they will definitely sell out. You can camp on the field
or there is a couple of bed and breakfasts in town as well as a camp ground.
Go-inn Home Bed & Breakfast
608.897.8138
Earth Rider, Inc.
608.897.8300
Crazy Horse Campground
N3201 Crazy Horse Lane
Brodhead, WI 53520
608.214.3350
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
I got good reports of their doings, so I thought I'd swing out of my
way and go there...besides, going that way I'm not tempted to do the
"o'r the water" flight. : )
Thanks for the response, Steve.
I just sprayed a few "ouches" on my plane, including a flaperon tip
that I dinged even before the airworthiness inspector put his seal of
approval on the plane.
I leave outta here at first light tomorrow, headed for Brodhead. Hope
to see a bunch of 'foxers at OSH.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, steve eccles wrote:
> <eccles@chartermi.net>
>
> I wish I was ...Brodhead is always a good time
> Steve Eccles
> Kitfox 5
> 0-200
> N642SE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:04 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
>
>
> Is anyone going to Brodhead, WI, on their way to Osh? A couple of
> local fliers are heading there on Thursday, and I'm altering my trip
> to include that fly-in, if all goes well.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/550+ hrs
> do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH? |
Thanks for the heads up on the dinner. I'll be camping....nine hours
'til lift-off........
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying w/550+ hrs
On Jul 24, 2008, at 6:11 PM, kirk hull wrote:
>
> I have been to Brodhead for the last few years and plan to go again
> this
> year. I will be there sat afternoon. If you go be sure to get you
> ticket
> got the dinner as they will definitely sell out. You can camp on
> the field
> or there is a couple of bed and breakfasts in town as well as a
> camp ground.
> Go-inn Home Bed & Breakfast
> 608.897.8138
>
> Earth Rider, Inc.
> 608.897.8300
>
> Crazy Horse Campground
> N3201 Crazy Horse Lane
> Brodhead, WI 53520
> 608.214.3350
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:41 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
>
>
> I got good reports of their doings, so I thought I'd swing out of my
> way and go there...besides, going that way I'm not tempted to do the
> "o'r the water" flight. : )
> Thanks for the response, Steve.
>
> I just sprayed a few "ouches" on my plane, including a flaperon tip
> that I dinged even before the airworthiness inspector put his seal of
> approval on the plane.
>
> I leave outta here at first light tomorrow, headed for Brodhead. Hope
> to see a bunch of 'foxers at OSH.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying w/550+ hrs
>
>
> On Jul 24, 2008, at 2:08 PM, steve eccles wrote:
>
>> <eccles@chartermi.net>
>>
>> I wish I was ...Brodhead is always a good time
>> Steve Eccles
>> Kitfox 5
>> 0-200
>> N642SE
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:04 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Anybody for Brodhead on the way to OSH?
>>
>>
>> Is anyone going to Brodhead, WI, on their way to Osh? A couple of
>> local fliers are heading there on Thursday, and I'm altering my trip
>> to include that fly-in, if all goes well.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200
>> Status: flying w/550+ hrs
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Flying in the rain |
Weather is something I have lots of experience in, none in a Kitfox, but lots of
weather experience in both light and heavy aircraft and everything in between.
I will do my best to answer your questions as they would apply to light airplane
like a Cessna 152.
If the rain is so heavy that you cannot see through it, stay out. This indicates
a thunderstorm most of the time, the good part is that it usually is pretty
easy to get around a thunderstorm, unless they are in a frontal system, at which
point you should be on the ground. Never risk getting into a thunderstorm,
even if you do manage to keep control of the plane in such a storm, the turbulence
can easily be enough to rip a small aircraft apart ! Thunderstorms form
and change very rapidly, if you make your 180 to late, what had been clear behind
you may be closed off. You should have the highest respect for thunderstorms,
they are deadly.
The rain wont hurt the window at all, or even the airframe. The concern with the
engine is that if the rain is very heavy, it can get your air filter wet and
actually drown the engine if you do not have alternate air. I don't know how
the intake / air filter is setup on the Jabiru, so I can not tell you if it
would be a problem to your installation or not. In an experimental aircraft,
I would worry about the ignition system getting wet in very heavy rain until
I had it well tested by actually flying in heavy rain.
I fly a warp drive prop with nickel leading edges, I could fly that prop through
a hurricane and it would not damage it a bit :)
Be cautious with the weather, if you are not comfortable with it, you should just
wait. There is nothing worse to be in weather wishing you were on the ground.
Don't risk going IFR, there are so many cases where guys get in above their
heads and accidentally enter IFR, not ready for it, and end up dead...
If you do start exploring the weather, make sure you have an artificial horizon
and that you can fly by it well, in turbulence. Summer time clouds are very
rough, you need to be able to do a 180 if you accidentally get into something,
and it will most likely be very rough.
Thats about it, be careful, because playing with weather is life and death, I would
rather turn back 100 times rather than go once into something that would
be beyond my skill level or my aircrafts limits.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194817#194817
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Flying in the rain |
At 02:26 PM 7/24/2008, you wrote:
>Do you take a chance to fly then if you meet a shower, you fly
>around it? What kind of rain intensity makes you do a 180 and go
>home? Apart from loosing sight, what can rain be a problem for? How
>does it affect an air-cooled engine like the Jabiru? Is there any
>danger for the thin lexan windscreen?
1. I try to fly around.
2. If it looks VERY NARROW I'll fly through. I'm very careful,
though, to make sure the clouds are broken in the area because I
can't handle IFR. (No instrumentation.)
3. If I got blocked in, I would do an emergency landing. (No IFR.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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