Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: epoxys (bob noffs)
2. 06:34 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson)
3. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: epoxys (paul wilson)
4. 06:51 AM - Re: epoxys (Tom Jones)
5. 07:28 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Michel Verheughe)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Lowell Fitt)
7. 08:25 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Noel Loveys)
8. 10:06 AM - Re: Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh (Rexinator)
9. 10:23 AM - Re: (Off-topic) Cardiac arrest (Rexinator)
10. 12:10 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Lowell Fitt)
11. 12:33 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Guy Buchanan)
12. 12:33 PM - Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards (Guy Buchanan)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Jose M. Toro)
14. 01:50 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Marco Menezes)
15. 01:55 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (dave)
16. 02:00 PM - Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards (steve shinabery)
17. 02:05 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (steve shinabery)
18. 03:56 PM - Re: varnish before or after? (jlfernan)
19. 05:45 PM - Landing and engine pictures (Lynn Matteson)
20. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: epoxys (Lynn Matteson)
21. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson)
22. 06:46 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson)
23. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: varnish before or after? (Randy Daughenbaugh)
24. 08:30 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
25. 08:36 PM - Re: Landing and engine pictures (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
26. 09:06 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Rupert Tinker)
27. 09:13 PM - Re: Landing and engine pictures (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are used to
stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the mix and should
not be used in a structural application. bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "paul wilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys
>
> Back when we were using the West epoxy system the stuff came with detailed
> instructions which said add the flox or other filler until you arrive at
> the consistency of peanut butter and could spread it on with a pop stick.
> Thicker is better for vertical surfaces to keep the epoxy from flowing.
> Chopped Fiberglas or strands of Fiberglas are used for stronger final
> product. Glass beads and ground up powder are also used just to make the
> stuff thick like flox.
>
> I bet you could get on line and get Hysols detailed instructions for their
> product.
> Paul
> ===============
>
>
>>>
>>>I've got a new Supersport kit and included with the kit was two part
>>>Hysol. How much flox is used when the ratio of the Hysol is 1:1?
>>>
>>>--------
>>>Jorge Fernandez
>>>Supersport
>>>Waiting on delivery
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Gary, Jim and Jim...
At this stage, I'm just going to the hangar and getting to pull the
engine. The wider valve train gears were probably designed to
withstand more pressure, and if my guess are correct, that's where it
failed. With both valve train and dist's not turning, the cam-to-
crank gearing is the first connection and most likely suspect in my
mind...a few hours from now I should know.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Glad you and the plane are OK - I seem to recall at some stage Jab
> went to wider cam and valve train gears - don't know if this might
> be a contributing factor?
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _-
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 3
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Correct. For structural purpose the strongest additives would be
chopped or strands of Fiberglas then cotton flox. Much of the other
fillers are just thickeners and definitely weaken the resin.The
question is do you want to use epoxy resin for structural purposes?.
Its pretty substandard for anything structural.
In the case of our rib to spar epoxy joint the epoxy just holds the
rib in place. Works fine if one uses a generous filet. That is not a
good place for a small amount of epoxy. At that location plain powder
filler or beads work just fine. Just use a syringe and a caulking
gun, then use a pop stick to reach the places where the caulk gun
does not reach.
Lots of good books out there to get up to speed on the use of epoxy
and Fiberglas composites.
Paul
==========
At 06:00 AM 8/4/2008, you wrote:
>
>as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are
>used to stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the
>mix and should not be used in a structural application. bob noffs
>----- Original Message ----- From: "paul wilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Message 4
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Jorge,
I have used both the 3M epoxy and the Hysol. I did not put flox in the 3M on the
wing ribs I installed and had to push it back into place about every 30 minutes
until it set up enough to not sag.
I built another complete wing using Hysol and found that it did not sag, stays
in place well, and needed no flox.
Flox can be added to Hysol to make it cure very hard. It is useful this way to
coat the foam used to make flaperon tips and such. Mix up some Hysol with flox
added, spread it on the foam wing flaperon tips and rasp, file, and sand to
shape and smooth when cured. Hard as a rock!
I also used Hysol with flox to fill and shape PVC wing strut fairing where they
are trimed on the trailing edge to provide clearance to fold the wings. The
aluminum fairing cuff was riveted right into the harded flox/hysol mix.
If you do find you need to thicken up some hysol, go slow adding the flox. By
volume start with about 1/8th the volume of the total hysol mixed up. Mix it
in well, then mix in a 1/2 a teaspoon or teaspoon at a time until it is the consistency
of peanut butter and holds its shape when you make a peak like whipped
cream with it.
I use a set of cooking measuring spoons and eyeball the volumes when mixing.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196396#196396
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> I had to put the 'fox
> down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...
Gosh, I don't know what to say, Lynn. I always felt that if you could fly the Fox+Jab,
I was safe too. Please keep me informed of your findings regarding the
cause of the engine stop. Good thing you found a nice field to put the plane
down, though. Good for you mate!
Incidentally, I checked today about my pilot license and ... they are not sure.
Apparently it is up to my doctor to make the decision if I can or can't fly anymore.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
260 hours on the engine and awaiting medical clearance
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: ASI's at what speed do they start |
I made up a spreadsheet for calibratintg the ASI - attached. The numbers on
the spreadsheet are from my old Model IV. You can see by checking the
numbers that my ASI was spot on somewhere between 75 and 80 mph and gave
relative bragging rights near stall and at cruise settings.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" <thesupe@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start
I just googled testing an airspeed indicator and the second site listed
describes how to test the ASI like the kitplanes article did. Jim Chuk
From: thesupe@hotmail.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE:
Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startDate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 02:48:03
+0000
There was an article in Kitplanes (I think) a couple of years ago on how to
test an ASI with a water column. A certain number of inches of water
preasure should cause the ASI to read a certain amount. When I check my
ASI, I hook a long 1/4" plastic line to the pitot tube and pinch off and
then fold the tube up. That will presureize the ASI gently and the speed
goes up about 10 or 20 MPH with each fold. The long line lets me watch the
ASI as I'm doing it. I don't like the idea of no ASI on takeoff either.
Jim Chuk, Kitfox 4 building, Avid MK IV flying, Mn
Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comI
just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed indicator
start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway got the tail off
the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on the ASI , when I blow
on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I feel that it works. When does
it start indicating? I just don't feel comfortable going for that first take
off with out a ASI working. Anyone know about this or have suggestions?
Thanks Jerry
Jerry Evans 96% done 582
Magalia Calif.
N582'er'
kitfox 555
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here.
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Lynn:
You have just become living evidence that practice and training and a bit
more practice works. Congratulations on a successful forced approach!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st
Gary, Jim and Jim...
At this stage, I'm just going to the hangar and getting to pull the
engine. The wider valve train gears were probably designed to
withstand more pressure, and if my guess are correct, that's where it
failed. With both valve train and dist's not turning, the cam-to-
crank gearing is the first connection and most likely suspect in my
mind...a few hours from now I should know.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Glad you and the plane are OK - I seem to recall at some stage Jab
> went to wider cam and valve train gears - don't know if this might
> be a contributing factor?
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _-
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _-
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===========================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh |
Very nice! I got similar imagery using the movie feature of my digital
still camera.
do not archive
--
Rex Hefferan
SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs
kirk hull wrote:
> Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) Cardiac arrest |
Dear Micheal,
Wow! I just got back from Airventure and am catching up on email. I
share everyones thoughts for your return to flying and that you are
still with us to have the chance.
Rex
Colorado
Michel Verheughe wrote:
>Dear friends, I am overwhelmed by all your kind words and best wishes.
>I am now back to the hospital of my home town, with a defibrillator/pacemaker
implant. It was tested this morning and I must say that it is very strange to
see a doctor in front of a computer, regulating my heartbeat at distance!
>
>Yes, I will continue to fly because ... it is the best thing I have done in my
life and I could the days to be back in the sky. But it will probably be with
my son as PIC. Because, although I have only the Norwegian ultralight (equivalent
to Sport Pilot) license, I am pretty sure that I will be facing a quarantaine
before I can fly alone. My driving license is already withdrawn for a year.
You see, while many have heart attacks, few have it followed by a cardiac arrest
as I did. In fact, I was heart dead for about five minutes. If such thing
repeats itself on the road or in the air, I am a danger for third parties.
>Apparently my cardiac arrest was triggered by a very mild heart attack but it
doesn't explain why it ceased to beat. The doctors think of a birth defect but
are not certain, hence the 'portable' defibrillator they want me to wear now.
>
>Again, thank you for all your kind words and I'll fly again ... but I need to
sort out a few things first.
>
>Best regards,
>Michel Verheughe
>Norway
>Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 200
>do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ASI's at what speed do they start |
I am trying this again. The data input (delta inches was protected in the
file I sent). If you want to use this spreadsheet, do the measurements and
then plug them into the spreadsheet and you will get the theoretical
airspeed based on the pitot tube pressure. A manometer is easy to make
using transparent tubing and an eyedropper. Form a close loop and attach
one end to the pitot tube.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start
>I made up a spreadsheet for calibratintg the ASI - attached. The numbers
>on
> the spreadsheet are from my old Model IV. You can see by checking the
> numbers that my ASI was spot on somewhere between 75 and 80 mph and gave
> relative bragging rights near stall and at cruise settings.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" <thesupe@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:08 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start
>
>
> I just googled testing an airspeed indicator and the second site listed
> describes how to test the ASI like the kitplanes article did. Jim Chuk
>
> From: thesupe@hotmail.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE:
> Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startDate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008
> 02:48:03
> +0000
>
>
> There was an article in Kitplanes (I think) a couple of years ago on how
> to
> test an ASI with a water column. A certain number of inches of water
> preasure should cause the ASI to read a certain amount. When I check my
> ASI, I hook a long 1/4" plastic line to the pitot tube and pinch off and
> then fold the tube up. That will presureize the ASI gently and the speed
> goes up about 10 or 20 MPH with each fold. The long line lets me watch
> the
> ASI as I'm doing it. I don't like the idea of no ASI on takeoff either.
> Jim Chuk, Kitfox 4 building, Avid MK IV flying, Mn
>
> Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:29:22 -0700From: kitfox555@sbcglobal.netSubject:
> Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startTo:
> kitfox-list@matronics.comI
> just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed indicator
> start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway got the tail
> off
> the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on the ASI , when I blow
> on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I feel that it works. When
> does
> it start indicating? I just don't feel comfortable going for that first
> take
> off with out a ASI working. Anyone know about this or have suggestions?
> Thanks Jerry
> Jerry Evans 96% done 582
> Magalia Calif.
> N582'er'
> kitfox 555
>
> target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live.
> http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: ASI's at what speed do they start |
At 05:29 PM 8/3/2008, you wrote:
>When does the airspeed indicator start indicating ?
At whatever lowest speed is on the dial. Mine starts at 20,
and yes I've had it indicate at rest. If you don't have an avionics
tech friend, pull the ASI and take it for a ride in your car. (Make
sure the static is routed to the car interior.) However, it sounds
like you've got a big leak in the pitot side. (The blow test is not
very useful. It's very easy to get big numbers blowing on a pitot.)
Let me know if you want some simplified testing methods.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards |
At 06:35 PM 8/3/2008, Kevin Cozik wrote:
>Thanks, this is the first I've heard of it. Every Kitfox I saw at
>Oshkosh was worthy of this award.
I wasn't there but I'm going to say that you must be guilty
of felony modesty. Good job. Thanks for making us proud.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Lynn:=0AI'm glad you and the plane are ok.- I have a Jab 2200 since Jan 2
005 that have not flown yet.- After your story and John M's, I wonder why
should I trust this engine.- Have you posted on the Jabiruengines list?
- They may provide valuable information.=0ABest Regards!=0AJose=0AN369JT
(another 369)=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson <ly
nnmatt@jps.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 4, 2
008 9:28:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landin
jps.net>=0A=0AGary, Jim and Jim...=0A=0AAt this stage, I'm just going to th
e hangar and getting to pull the- =0Aengine. The wider valve train gears
were probably designed to- =0Awithstand more pressure, and if my guess ar
e correct, that's where it- =0Afailed. With both valve train and dist's n
ot turning, the cam-to- =0Acrank gearing is the first connection and most l
ikely suspect in my- =0Amind...a few hours from now I should know.=0A=0AL
ynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster=0AJabiru 2200=0AStatus: flying...oops...
holding short at 561.8 hrs=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, ga
ry.algate@sandvik.com wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> Glad you and the plane are OK - I s
eem to recall at some stage Jab- =0A> went to wider cam and valve train g
ears - don't know if this might- =0A> be a contributing factor?=0A>=0A> R
egards=0A>=0A> Gary=0A>=0A> Gary Algate=0A> SMC, Exploration=0A> Office Pho
ne: +61 8 8276 7655=0A>=0A>=0A> This e-mail is confidential and it is inten
ded only for the- =0A> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distributio
n, or copying of- =0A> this message by persons or entities other than the
intended- =0A> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error,- =0A> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and
delete the- =0A> message from your system. The sender does not accept lia
bility for- =0A> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message
which may- =0A> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- =0A> www
.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- =0A> www.matronics.com/contribution
_- =0A> ======================
==================0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Well, so much for the invitation I was gonna make you to fly formation from
Ludington to OSH next year. :-) I'm just thankful to hear that you were ab
le to find a suitable place to make the proverbial "great" landing.
-
Keep us posted on the diagnosis and treatment, Lynn. We're all curious to h
ear what the Jabiru people will have to say about this blot on their reputa
tion for reliability.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box
--- On Sun, 8/3/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st
Well, my resume' is getting more complete....I had to put the 'fox
down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...engine problem.
After getting the plane back on a trailer and bringing it home, the
preliminary finding is no cam action on either the valves, or via the
camshaft, the distributor shafts. So I'll need to pull the engine and
get into the rear cover, under which lurks the cam/crank gear. I
think the recent rear main seal seepage might have been a clue. You'd
have to know the Jabiru engine to know why I think this is possible.
Anybody think this incident will make me MORE willing to cross "the
big water?"
I was at about 1500' agl when it happened, and had plenty of time to
look for a suitable field, found it and circled around CCW from a
heading of 043=B0 to a heading of 090=B0 and landed with the grain with a
very slight right-hand crosswind...wind was from 150=B0. A guy was
walking along the road and noticed a very quiet plane coming in over
his head and called his son to come over with a "quadrunner" and we
all went to his house. We left shortly for the airshow at Caro
airport (my destination), where we met up with Deke, filled him in on
the shenanigans, then went back to the scene and towed the plane out
of the field, while Brian, my flight instructor brought my trailer up
the 140+ miles to help me out. Got it all loaded up (remember a week
or so ago when I said I didn't like towing my plane and the next time
I did it, it would be because I needed to?.....well, guess what?)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Good work Lynn on the forced approach. !!!
Just goes to show any engine can die. MY 582 is at 500 hours now and not been
apart since New in 2006 June. I am going to put a new engine in this week. Cost
will be about 4000$ for a brand new long block - not bad for over 500 hours
. This is my third engine in this Kitfox. I will post what I find inside this
engine soon. Likely not much I think.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
Flying Videos and Kitfox Info
http://www.cfisher.com/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196478#196478
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards |
Kevin Cozik wrote:
>
> Thanks, this is the first I've heard of it. Every Kitfox I saw at
> Oshkosh was worthy of this award.
> Kevin Cozik
> Kitfox 7
> Rotax 914
> Czech floats
> Lansing Michigan
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "dholly" <oue191@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:48 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards
>
>
>>
>> The 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards from Oshkosh are in!
>>
>> SEAPLANE AWARDS
>>
>> Plaques - Outstanding Workmanship
>> Kevin Cozik, 2007 Kitfox 7, N262SC
>>
>> Congratulations Kevin on one great looking seaplane!
>>
>> --------
>> Airdale Avid+ project | Jab2200 | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196280#196280
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 5:30 PM
>
>
Way To Go Kevin,,From Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Yeah, the fields were plentiful today, and thanks to a nice glide
> ratio, I got to pick a nice short-cropped yellow one from all the tall
> green ones. Unless a miracle happens, I'm on the disabled list for
> this weekend, Steve...bummer.
>
> It's funny that I noticed a slight seepage from the rear main seal
> while at Oshkosh, and about 8 hrs later this happens. I'll pull the
> engine tomorrow, so I should know very soon what let go. The main seal
> leaking was surely a clue, because the surface that the rear seal
> rides on is the crankshaft gear, not the crankshaft itself in a
> Jabiru, strange as that sounds. It could be minimal, but I figure at
> least some bent valves when they stopped and the pistons kept moving.
> There's gotta be some metal throughout the engine, as the prop
> continued to turn until slow on final.
>
> I was surprised at how quickly I got through the "this can't be
> happening" phase, and into the "where the hell's that landing field"
> phase. I was just 7 minutes from Caro's field and knew I couldn't make
> that, so that's when a quick scan of available airports/strips on the
> GPS took place, and all were too far away. This field was made to
> order. I got it turned to downwind, tried to start it...dumb move with
> the prop still turning....then shut off the fuel, the ignition, the
> master, and made a pretty damn good landing, if I do say so myself. I
> couldn't have got that tail down any further unless I got out and dug
> a trench....no practicing wheel landings under those circumstances,
> for sure.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200
> Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2008, at 10:31 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Lynn, I'm glad Michigan is blessed with many fields as i'm sure
>> you are also :-) I guess this means you wont be meeting me at KLAF
>> this weekend :-( Keep us informed of what the diagnosis is... I
>> have 918 on the hobbs on my plane (different motor) but i'm sure the
>> same may happen to me one day. Steve Bennett kf4/912
>>
>> In a message dated 8/3/2008 10:13:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
>>
>> Well, my resume' is getting more complete....I had to put the 'fox
>> down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...engine problem.
>> After getting the plane back on a trailer and bringing it home, the
>> preliminary finding is no cam action on either the valves, or via the
>> camshaft, the distributor shafts. So I'll need to pull the engine and
>> get into the rear cover, under which lurks the cam/crank gear. I
>> think the recent rear main seal seepage might have been a clue. You'd
>> have to know the Jabiru engine to know why I think this is possible.
>>
>> Anybody think this incident will make me MORE willing to cross "the
>> big water?"
>>
>> I was at about 1500' agl when it happened, and had plenty of time to
>> look for a suitable field, found it and circled around CCW from a
>> heading of 043 to a heading of 090 and landed with the grain with a
>> very slight right-hand crosswind...wind was from 150. A guy was
>> walking along the road and noticed a very quiet plane coming in over
>> his head and called his son to come over with a "quadrunner" and we
>> all went to his house. We left shortly for the airshow at Caro
>> airport (my destination), where we met up with Deke, filled him in on
>> the shenanigans, then went back to the scene and towed the plane out
>> of the field, while Brian, my flight instructor brought my trailer up
>> the 140+ miles to help me out. Got it all loaded up (remember a week
>> or so ago when I said I didn't like towing my plane and the next time
>> I did it, it would be because I needed to?.....well, guess what?)
>>
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200
>> Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 he es y
>> --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List
>> Contribution Web Site ;
>> ========================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
>> reviews on AOL Autos.
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
>> _-www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 5:30 PM
>
>
Great landing Lynn,,, ;-) and you are safe and sound :-) and did not get
hurt ,or hurt your plane :-P STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: varnish before or after? |
Now, what about on the HS and elevators? Some of the ribs butt up against cross
members, and if you glue them first, than you can't do the area next to the
cross member? Should I varnish them and then scuff them before gluing?
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Just starting!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196502#196502
Message 19
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| Subject: | Landing and engine pictures |
Here's a couple of shots of this weekend's fun and relaxation in the
aviation hobby. : )
These guys were johnny-on-the-spot to help me get her towed back to
civilization...the shade of that big ol' tree in the b'ground near
the farm...and took me into town so I could get a battery charger for
my cellphone, and thus make arrangements for the tow home.
\
Here's the tale of the engine stoppage...as I suspected, the timing
gear on the crank destroyed itself (actually I didn't guess the crank
gear specifically, rather one or the other), but the end result is
the same. I've got one head off and slight contact between the valve
and piston shows, but I don't think new parts on that one cylinder is
required, but I've got 3 more to look at tomorrow. In any case, I'll
probably do a complete o'haul as long as I have it this far down.
The crank gear looks like some hockey players I've come up
against...about 9 teeth missing. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
Message 20
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In models, we used the glass beads (Microballoons) to allow the epoxy
to be sanded more readily. The milled fiberglass (chopped fiberglass)
really adds strength.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:00 AM, bob noffs wrote:
>
> as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are
> used to stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the
> mix and should not be used in a structural application. bob noffs
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul wilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:13 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys
>
>
>>
>> Back when we were using the West epoxy system the stuff came with
>> detailed instructions which said add the flox or other filler
>> until you arrive at the consistency of peanut butter and could
>> spread it on with a pop stick. Thicker is better for vertical
>> surfaces to keep the epoxy from flowing. Chopped Fiberglas or
>> strands of Fiberglas are used for stronger final product. Glass
>> beads and ground up powder are also used just to make the stuff
>> thick like flox.
>>
>> I bet you could get on line and get Hysols detailed instructions
>> for their product.
>> Paul
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Michel, Jose, Steve, Dave and Marco-
Thanks for the encouraging words guys....yeah, I guess even a blind
squirrel finds a nut now and then. : )
I had to laugh today when Keith C. called me with an offer to send me
a new pair of shorts. I told him I was too dumb to be scared.
I've got 3 more cyl heads to pull tomorrow and the oil pan, and then
I'll know better just what will have to be replaced...reports as they
become available.
Keep after that doc, Michel, and I hope he's up to date as to how
calming and laid back flying can be at our level of involvement.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
>> I had to put the 'fox
>> down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...
>
> Gosh, I don't know what to say, Lynn. I always felt that if you
> could fly the Fox+Jab, I was safe too. Please keep me informed of
> your findings regarding the cause of the engine stop. Good thing
> you found a nice field to put the plane down, though. Good for you
> mate!
>
> Incidentally, I checked today about my pilot license and ... they
> are not sure. Apparently it is up to my doctor to make the decision
> if I can or can't fly anymore.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200
> 260 hours on the engine and awaiting medical clearance
>
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Jose-
It was really strange that I was thinking about John M's 577-hr
problems, and thinking that until I got past that magic number, I'd
be concerned. Came up 15 hours shy....damn! : )
I haven't posted on Jab yet....I was waiting until I could total all
the stuff that will require replacing or repairing.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200
Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs
On Aug 4, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote:
> Lynn:
>
> I'm glad you and the plane are ok. I have a Jab 2200 since Jan
> 2005 that have not flown yet. After your story and John M's, I
> wonder why should I trust this engine. Have you posted on the
> Jabiruengines list? They may provide valuable information.
>
> Best Regards!
>
> Jose
> N369JT (another 369)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: varnish before or after? |
Jorge,
I glued first and then varnished them in place. I think that that is the
best way.
Randy
Series 5/7
912S 200 hours.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jlfernan
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:54 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: varnish before or after?
Now, what about on the HS and elevators? Some of the ribs butt up against
cross members, and if you glue them first, than you can't do the area next
to the cross member? Should I varnish them and then scuff them before
gluing?
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Just starting!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196502#196502
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st |
Guys I think we need to keep this in perspective - Now that I've returned
to Australia I've learned that there are hundreds of these engines being
used in most Recreational training aircrafts in Australia and they are
also rapidly gaining respect throughout Europe and N.America.
I am not saying this because I have a Jab also, as have flown behind 912's
and 582's and also respect them highly.
Unfortunately anything mechanical can fail but it will be very interesting
to see what Lynn finds when he takes a look "inside".
I don't believe that there have been many reported Jab2200A failures
Best regards,
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200A
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
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| Subject: | Re: Landing and engine pictures |
Lynn
I am going to run these photos past the local Jab technician here in
Adelaide as he is a wealth of info on the Jab engines and is in fact in
charge of mtce training here in Aus.
I'll let you know what he says.
(He has converted his 2200 to Fuel injection and develops about another
20Hp!
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
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| Subject: | Re: ASI's at what speed do they start |
Hi Jerry: The Paradise EAA Chapter 735 has an manometer for checking
ASI's and leaks in the tubing to the ASI. Right now it is in the back
of my hanger at the Paradise Airport. You are welcome to use it
anytime.
Rupert Tinker
Kitfox II, 582, still under construction
Paradise, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: jerry evans
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:29 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start
I just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed
indicator start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway
got the tail off the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on
the ASI , when I blow on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I
feel that it works. When does it start indicating? I just don't feel
comfortable going for that first take off with out a ASI working.
Anyone know about this or have suggestions? Thanks Jerry
Jerry Evans
96% done 582
Magalia Calif.
N582'er'
kitfox 555
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Landing and engine pictures |
At 05:38 PM 8/4/2008, you wrote:
>Here's a couple of shots of this weekend's fun and relaxation in the
>aviation hobby. : )
I'm sorry to say that, from an engineering perspective, that's a very
sorry looking gear. I'm also wondering what the heck the little flat
gear is for. I sure hope they redesigned this area at some point.
(The picture in the field looks great, however!)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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