---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/04/08: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: epoxys (bob noffs) 2. 06:34 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson) 3. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: epoxys (paul wilson) 4. 06:51 AM - Re: epoxys (Tom Jones) 5. 07:28 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Michel Verheughe) 6. 07:30 AM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Lowell Fitt) 7. 08:25 AM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Noel Loveys) 8. 10:06 AM - Re: Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh (Rexinator) 9. 10:23 AM - Re: (Off-topic) Cardiac arrest (Rexinator) 10. 12:10 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Lowell Fitt) 11. 12:33 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Guy Buchanan) 12. 12:33 PM - Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards (Guy Buchanan) 13. 12:41 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Jose M. Toro) 14. 01:50 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Marco Menezes) 15. 01:55 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (dave) 16. 02:00 PM - Re: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards (steve shinabery) 17. 02:05 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (steve shinabery) 18. 03:56 PM - Re: varnish before or after? (jlfernan) 19. 05:45 PM - Landing and engine pictures (Lynn Matteson) 20. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: epoxys (Lynn Matteson) 21. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson) 22. 06:46 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (Lynn Matteson) 23. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: varnish before or after? (Randy Daughenbaugh) 24. 08:30 PM - Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 25. 08:36 PM - Re: Landing and engine pictures (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 26. 09:06 PM - Re: ASI's at what speed do they start (Rupert Tinker) 27. 09:13 PM - Re: Landing and engine pictures (Guy Buchanan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:16 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are used to stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the mix and should not be used in a structural application. bob noffs ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul wilson" Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys > > Back when we were using the West epoxy system the stuff came with detailed > instructions which said add the flox or other filler until you arrive at > the consistency of peanut butter and could spread it on with a pop stick. > Thicker is better for vertical surfaces to keep the epoxy from flowing. > Chopped Fiberglas or strands of Fiberglas are used for stronger final > product. Glass beads and ground up powder are also used just to make the > stuff thick like flox. > > I bet you could get on line and get Hysols detailed instructions for their > product. > Paul > =============== > > >>> >>>I've got a new Supersport kit and included with the kit was two part >>>Hysol. How much flox is used when the ratio of the Hysol is 1:1? >>> >>>-------- >>>Jorge Fernandez >>>Supersport >>>Waiting on delivery > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:40 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Gary, Jim and Jim... At this stage, I'm just going to the hangar and getting to pull the engine. The wider valve train gears were probably designed to withstand more pressure, and if my guess are correct, that's where it failed. With both valve train and dist's not turning, the cam-to- crank gearing is the first connection and most likely suspect in my mind...a few hours from now I should know. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > Glad you and the plane are OK - I seem to recall at some stage Jab > went to wider cam and valve train gears - don't know if this might > be a contributing factor? > > Regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > SMC, Exploration > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:40 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys Correct. For structural purpose the strongest additives would be chopped or strands of Fiberglas then cotton flox. Much of the other fillers are just thickeners and definitely weaken the resin.The question is do you want to use epoxy resin for structural purposes?. Its pretty substandard for anything structural. In the case of our rib to spar epoxy joint the epoxy just holds the rib in place. Works fine if one uses a generous filet. That is not a good place for a small amount of epoxy. At that location plain powder filler or beads work just fine. Just use a syringe and a caulking gun, then use a pop stick to reach the places where the caulk gun does not reach. Lots of good books out there to get up to speed on the use of epoxy and Fiberglas composites. Paul ========== At 06:00 AM 8/4/2008, you wrote: > >as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are >used to stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the >mix and should not be used in a structural application. bob noffs >----- Original Message ----- From: "paul wilson" ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:51 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys From: "Tom Jones" Jorge, I have used both the 3M epoxy and the Hysol. I did not put flox in the 3M on the wing ribs I installed and had to push it back into place about every 30 minutes until it set up enough to not sag. I built another complete wing using Hysol and found that it did not sag, stays in place well, and needed no flox. Flox can be added to Hysol to make it cure very hard. It is useful this way to coat the foam used to make flaperon tips and such. Mix up some Hysol with flox added, spread it on the foam wing flaperon tips and rasp, file, and sand to shape and smooth when cured. Hard as a rock! I also used Hysol with flox to fill and shape PVC wing strut fairing where they are trimed on the trailing edge to provide clearance to fold the wings. The aluminum fairing cuff was riveted right into the harded flox/hysol mix. If you do find you need to thicken up some hysol, go slow adding the flox. By volume start with about 1/8th the volume of the total hysol mixed up. Mix it in well, then mix in a 1/2 a teaspoon or teaspoon at a time until it is the consistency of peanut butter and holds its shape when you make a peak like whipped cream with it. I use a set of cooking measuring spoons and eyeball the volumes when mixing. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196396#196396 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:38 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > I had to put the 'fox > down into a freshly harvested wheat field today... Gosh, I don't know what to say, Lynn. I always felt that if you could fly the Fox+Jab, I was safe too. Please keep me informed of your findings regarding the cause of the engine stop. Good thing you found a nice field to put the plane down, though. Good for you mate! Incidentally, I checked today about my pilot license and ... they are not sure. Apparently it is up to my doctor to make the decision if I can or can't fly anymore. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 260 hours on the engine and awaiting medical clearance
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:36 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start I made up a spreadsheet for calibratintg the ASI - attached. The numbers on the spreadsheet are from my old Model IV. You can see by checking the numbers that my ASI was spot on somewhere between 75 and 80 mph and gave relative bragging rights near stall and at cruise settings. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:08 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start I just googled testing an airspeed indicator and the second site listed describes how to test the ASI like the kitplanes article did. Jim Chuk From: thesupe@hotmail.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startDate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 02:48:03 +0000 There was an article in Kitplanes (I think) a couple of years ago on how to test an ASI with a water column. A certain number of inches of water preasure should cause the ASI to read a certain amount. When I check my ASI, I hook a long 1/4" plastic line to the pitot tube and pinch off and then fold the tube up. That will presureize the ASI gently and the speed goes up about 10 or 20 MPH with each fold. The long line lets me watch the ASI as I'm doing it. I don't like the idea of no ASI on takeoff either. Jim Chuk, Kitfox 4 building, Avid MK IV flying, Mn Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comI just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed indicator start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway got the tail off the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on the ASI , when I blow on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I feel that it works. When does it start indicating? I just don't feel comfortable going for that first take off with out a ASI working. Anyone know about this or have suggestions? Thanks Jerry Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. N582'er' kitfox 555 target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. _________________________________________________________________ Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:46 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Lynn: You have just become living evidence that practice and training and a bit more practice works. Congratulations on a successful forced approach! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Gary, Jim and Jim... At this stage, I'm just going to the hangar and getting to pull the engine. The wider valve train gears were probably designed to withstand more pressure, and if my guess are correct, that's where it failed. With both valve train and dist's not turning, the cam-to- crank gearing is the first connection and most likely suspect in my mind...a few hours from now I should know. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs On Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > Glad you and the plane are OK - I seem to recall at some stage Jab > went to wider cam and valve train gears - don't know if this might > be a contributing factor? > > Regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > SMC, Exploration > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh From: Rexinator Very nice! I got similar imagery using the movie feature of my digital still camera. do not archive -- Rex Hefferan SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs kirk hull wrote: > Just 2 of the pics I took in Oshkosh > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:23:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) Cardiac arrest From: Rexinator Dear Micheal, Wow! I just got back from Airventure and am catching up on email. I share everyones thoughts for your return to flying and that you are still with us to have the chance. Rex Colorado Michel Verheughe wrote: >Dear friends, I am overwhelmed by all your kind words and best wishes. >I am now back to the hospital of my home town, with a defibrillator/pacemaker implant. It was tested this morning and I must say that it is very strange to see a doctor in front of a computer, regulating my heartbeat at distance! > >Yes, I will continue to fly because ... it is the best thing I have done in my life and I could the days to be back in the sky. But it will probably be with my son as PIC. Because, although I have only the Norwegian ultralight (equivalent to Sport Pilot) license, I am pretty sure that I will be facing a quarantaine before I can fly alone. My driving license is already withdrawn for a year. You see, while many have heart attacks, few have it followed by a cardiac arrest as I did. In fact, I was heart dead for about five minutes. If such thing repeats itself on the road or in the air, I am a danger for third parties. >Apparently my cardiac arrest was triggered by a very mild heart attack but it doesn't explain why it ceased to beat. The doctors think of a birth defect but are not certain, hence the 'portable' defibrillator they want me to wear now. > >Again, thank you for all your kind words and I'll fly again ... but I need to sort out a few things first. > >Best regards, >Michel Verheughe >Norway >Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 200 >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:31 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start I am trying this again. The data input (delta inches was protected in the file I sent). If you want to use this spreadsheet, do the measurements and then plug them into the spreadsheet and you will get the theoretical airspeed based on the pitot tube pressure. A manometer is easy to make using transparent tubing and an eyedropper. Form a close loop and attach one end to the pitot tube. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 7:25 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start >I made up a spreadsheet for calibratintg the ASI - attached. The numbers >on > the spreadsheet are from my old Model IV. You can see by checking the > numbers that my ASI was spot on somewhere between 75 and 80 mph and gave > relative bragging rights near stall and at cruise settings. > > Lowell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim_and_Lucy Chuk" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 9:08 PM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start > > > I just googled testing an airspeed indicator and the second site listed > describes how to test the ASI like the kitplanes article did. Jim Chuk > > From: thesupe@hotmail.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: > Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startDate: Mon, 4 Aug 2008 > 02:48:03 > +0000 > > > There was an article in Kitplanes (I think) a couple of years ago on how > to > test an ASI with a water column. A certain number of inches of water > preasure should cause the ASI to read a certain amount. When I check my > ASI, I hook a long 1/4" plastic line to the pitot tube and pinch off and > then fold the tube up. That will presureize the ASI gently and the speed > goes up about 10 or 20 MPH with each fold. The long line lets me watch > the > ASI as I'm doing it. I don't like the idea of no ASI on takeoff either. > Jim Chuk, Kitfox 4 building, Avid MK IV flying, Mn > > Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 17:29:22 -0700From: kitfox555@sbcglobal.netSubject: > Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they startTo: > kitfox-list@matronics.comI > just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed indicator > start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway got the tail > off > the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on the ASI , when I blow > on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I feel that it works. When > does > it start indicating? I just don't feel comfortable going for that first > take > off with out a ASI working. Anyone know about this or have suggestions? > Thanks Jerry > Jerry Evans 96% done 582 > Magalia Calif. > N582'er' > kitfox 555 > > target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > =_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > Get Windows Live and get whatever you need, wherever you are. Start here. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Reveal your inner athlete and share it with friends on Windows Live. > http://revealyourinnerathlete.windowslive.com?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WLYIA_whichathlete_us > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:19 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start At 05:29 PM 8/3/2008, you wrote: >When does the airspeed indicator start indicating ? At whatever lowest speed is on the dial. Mine starts at 20, and yes I've had it indicate at rest. If you don't have an avionics tech friend, pull the ASI and take it for a ride in your car. (Make sure the static is routed to the car interior.) However, it sounds like you've got a big leak in the pitot side. (The blow test is not very useful. It's very easy to get big numbers blowing on a pitot.) Let me know if you want some simplified testing methods. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:19 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards At 06:35 PM 8/3/2008, Kevin Cozik wrote: >Thanks, this is the first I've heard of it. Every Kitfox I saw at >Oshkosh was worthy of this award. I wasn't there but I'm going to say that you must be guilty of felony modesty. Good job. Thanks for making us proud. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:21 PM PST US From: "Jose M. Toro" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Lynn:=0AI'm glad you and the plane are ok.- I have a Jab 2200 since Jan 2 005 that have not flown yet.- After your story and John M's, I wonder why should I trust this engine.- Have you posted on the Jabiruengines list? - They may provide valuable information.=0ABest Regards!=0AJose=0AN369JT (another 369)=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, August 4, 2 008 9:28:35 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landin jps.net>=0A=0AGary, Jim and Jim...=0A=0AAt this stage, I'm just going to th e hangar and getting to pull the- =0Aengine. The wider valve train gears were probably designed to- =0Awithstand more pressure, and if my guess ar e correct, that's where it- =0Afailed. With both valve train and dist's n ot turning, the cam-to- =0Acrank gearing is the first connection and most l ikely suspect in my- =0Amind...a few hours from now I should know.=0A=0AL ynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster=0AJabiru 2200=0AStatus: flying...oops... holding short at 561.8 hrs=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Aug 4, 2008, at 12:04 AM, ga ry.algate@sandvik.com wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> Glad you and the plane are OK - I s eem to recall at some stage Jab- =0A> went to wider cam and valve train g ears - don't know if this might- =0A> be a contributing factor?=0A>=0A> R egards=0A>=0A> Gary=0A>=0A> Gary Algate=0A> SMC, Exploration=0A> Office Pho ne: +61 8 8276 7655=0A>=0A>=0A> This e-mail is confidential and it is inten ded only for the- =0A> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distributio n, or copying of- =0A> this message by persons or entities other than the intended- =0A> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,- =0A> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the- =0A> message from your system. The sender does not accept lia bility for- =0A> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may- =0A> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- =0A> www .matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- =0A> www.matronics.com/contribution _- =0A> ====================== ==================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:02 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Well, so much for the invitation I was gonna make you to fly formation from Ludington to OSH next year. :-) I'm just thankful to hear that you were ab le to find a suitable place to make the proverbial "great" landing. - Keep us posted on the diagnosis and treatment, Lynn. We're all curious to h ear what the Jabiru people will have to say about this blot on their reputa tion for reliability. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box --- On Sun, 8/3/08, Lynn Matteson wrote: From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Well, my resume' is getting more complete....I had to put the 'fox down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...engine problem. After getting the plane back on a trailer and bringing it home, the preliminary finding is no cam action on either the valves, or via the camshaft, the distributor shafts. So I'll need to pull the engine and get into the rear cover, under which lurks the cam/crank gear. I think the recent rear main seal seepage might have been a clue. You'd have to know the Jabiru engine to know why I think this is possible. Anybody think this incident will make me MORE willing to cross "the big water?" I was at about 1500' agl when it happened, and had plenty of time to look for a suitable field, found it and circled around CCW from a heading of 043=B0 to a heading of 090=B0 and landed with the grain with a very slight right-hand crosswind...wind was from 150=B0. A guy was walking along the road and noticed a very quiet plane coming in over his head and called his son to come over with a "quadrunner" and we all went to his house. We left shortly for the airshow at Caro airport (my destination), where we met up with Deke, filled him in on the shenanigans, then went back to the scene and towed the plane out of the field, while Brian, my flight instructor brought my trailer up the 140+ miles to help me out. Got it all loaded up (remember a week or so ago when I said I didn't like towing my plane and the next time I did it, it would be because I needed to?.....well, guess what?) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:35 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st From: "dave" Good work Lynn on the forced approach. !!! Just goes to show any engine can die. MY 582 is at 500 hours now and not been apart since New in 2006 June. I am going to put a new engine in this week. Cost will be about 4000$ for a brand new long block - not bad for over 500 hours . This is my third engine in this Kitfox. I will post what I find inside this engine soon. Likely not much I think. Dave -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada Flying Videos and Kitfox Info http://www.cfisher.com/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196478#196478 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:15 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards Kevin Cozik wrote: > > Thanks, this is the first I've heard of it. Every Kitfox I saw at > Oshkosh was worthy of this award. > Kevin Cozik > Kitfox 7 > Rotax 914 > Czech floats > Lansing Michigan > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "dholly" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:48 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards > > >> >> The 2008 EAA Airventure Aircraft Awards from Oshkosh are in! >> >> SEAPLANE AWARDS >> >> Plaques - Outstanding Workmanship >> Kevin Cozik, 2007 Kitfox 7, N262SC >> >> Congratulations Kevin on one great looking seaplane! >> >> -------- >> Airdale Avid+ project | Jab2200 | Aerocet 1100 Amphibs >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196280#196280 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 5:30 PM > > Way To Go Kevin,,From Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:57 PM PST US From: steve shinabery Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Lynn Matteson wrote: > > Yeah, the fields were plentiful today, and thanks to a nice glide > ratio, I got to pick a nice short-cropped yellow one from all the tall > green ones. Unless a miracle happens, I'm on the disabled list for > this weekend, Steve...bummer. > > It's funny that I noticed a slight seepage from the rear main seal > while at Oshkosh, and about 8 hrs later this happens. I'll pull the > engine tomorrow, so I should know very soon what let go. The main seal > leaking was surely a clue, because the surface that the rear seal > rides on is the crankshaft gear, not the crankshaft itself in a > Jabiru, strange as that sounds. It could be minimal, but I figure at > least some bent valves when they stopped and the pistons kept moving. > There's gotta be some metal throughout the engine, as the prop > continued to turn until slow on final. > > I was surprised at how quickly I got through the "this can't be > happening" phase, and into the "where the hell's that landing field" > phase. I was just 7 minutes from Caro's field and knew I couldn't make > that, so that's when a quick scan of available airports/strips on the > GPS took place, and all were too far away. This field was made to > order. I got it turned to downwind, tried to start it...dumb move with > the prop still turning....then shut off the fuel, the ignition, the > master, and made a pretty damn good landing, if I do say so myself. I > couldn't have got that tail down any further unless I got out and dug > a trench....no practicing wheel landings under those circumstances, > for sure. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster > Jabiru 2200 > Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs > > > On Aug 3, 2008, at 10:31 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote: > >> Lynn, I'm glad Michigan is blessed with many fields as i'm sure >> you are also :-) I guess this means you wont be meeting me at KLAF >> this weekend :-( Keep us informed of what the diagnosis is... I >> have 918 on the hobbs on my plane (different motor) but i'm sure the >> same may happen to me one day. Steve Bennett kf4/912 >> >> In a message dated 8/3/2008 10:13:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> lynnmatt@jps.net writes: >> >> Well, my resume' is getting more complete....I had to put the 'fox >> down into a freshly harvested wheat field today...engine problem. >> After getting the plane back on a trailer and bringing it home, the >> preliminary finding is no cam action on either the valves, or via the >> camshaft, the distributor shafts. So I'll need to pull the engine and >> get into the rear cover, under which lurks the cam/crank gear. I >> think the recent rear main seal seepage might have been a clue. You'd >> have to know the Jabiru engine to know why I think this is possible. >> >> Anybody think this incident will make me MORE willing to cross "the >> big water?" >> >> I was at about 1500' agl when it happened, and had plenty of time to >> look for a suitable field, found it and circled around CCW from a >> heading of 043 to a heading of 090 and landed with the grain with a >> very slight right-hand crosswind...wind was from 150. A guy was >> walking along the road and noticed a very quiet plane coming in over >> his head and called his son to come over with a "quadrunner" and we >> all went to his house. We left shortly for the airshow at Caro >> airport (my destination), where we met up with Deke, filled him in on >> the shenanigans, then went back to the scene and towed the plane out >> of the field, while Brian, my flight instructor brought my trailer up >> the 140+ miles to help me out. Got it all loaded up (remember a week >> or so ago when I said I didn't like towing my plane and the next time >> I did it, it would be because I needed to?.....well, guess what?) >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster >> Jabiru 2200 >> Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 he es y >> --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List >> Contribution Web Site ; >> ======================== >> >> >> >> >> >> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read >> reviews on AOL Autos. >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List >> _-www.matronics.com/contribution > > > 270.5.10/1587 - Release Date: 8/2/2008 5:30 PM > > Great landing Lynn,,, ;-) and you are safe and sound :-) and did not get hurt ,or hurt your plane :-P STEVE SHINABERY N554KF KF2 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:56:45 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: varnish before or after? From: "jlfernan" Now, what about on the HS and elevators? Some of the ribs butt up against cross members, and if you glue them first, than you can't do the area next to the cross member? Should I varnish them and then scuff them before gluing? -------- Jorge Fernandez Supersport Just starting! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196502#196502 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:26 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing and engine pictures Here's a couple of shots of this weekend's fun and relaxation in the aviation hobby. : ) These guys were johnny-on-the-spot to help me get her towed back to civilization...the shade of that big ol' tree in the b'ground near the farm...and took me into town so I could get a battery charger for my cellphone, and thus make arrangements for the tow home. \ Here's the tale of the engine stoppage...as I suspected, the timing gear on the crank destroyed itself (actually I didn't guess the crank gear specifically, rather one or the other), but the end result is the same. I've got one head off and slight contact between the valve and piston shows, but I don't think new parts on that one cylinder is required, but I've got 3 more to look at tomorrow. In any case, I'll probably do a complete o'haul as long as I have it this far down. The crank gear looks like some hockey players I've come up against...about 9 teeth missing. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:26 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys In models, we used the glass beads (Microballoons) to allow the epoxy to be sanded more readily. The milled fiberglass (chopped fiberglass) really adds strength. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:00 AM, bob noffs wrote: > > as i understand it glass beads are not just like flox. beads are > used to stiffen the mix , say to use as filler, but they weaken the > mix and should not be used in a structural application. bob noffs > ----- Original Message ----- From: "paul wilson" > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: epoxys > > >> >> Back when we were using the West epoxy system the stuff came with >> detailed instructions which said add the flox or other filler >> until you arrive at the consistency of peanut butter and could >> spread it on with a pop stick. Thicker is better for vertical >> surfaces to keep the epoxy from flowing. Chopped Fiberglas or >> strands of Fiberglas are used for stronger final product. Glass >> beads and ground up powder are also used just to make the stuff >> thick like flox. >> >> I bet you could get on line and get Hysols detailed instructions >> for their product. >> Paul ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:08 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Michel, Jose, Steve, Dave and Marco- Thanks for the encouraging words guys....yeah, I guess even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. : ) I had to laugh today when Keith C. called me with an offer to send me a new pair of shorts. I told him I was too dumb to be scared. I've got 3 more cyl heads to pull tomorrow and the oil pan, and then I'll know better just what will have to be replaced...reports as they become available. Keep after that doc, Michel, and I hope he's up to date as to how calming and laid back flying can be at our level of involvement. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] >> I had to put the 'fox >> down into a freshly harvested wheat field today... > > Gosh, I don't know what to say, Lynn. I always felt that if you > could fly the Fox+Jab, I was safe too. Please keep me informed of > your findings regarding the cause of the engine stop. Good thing > you found a nice field to put the plane down, though. Good for you > mate! > > Incidentally, I checked today about my pilot license and ... they > are not sure. Apparently it is up to my doctor to make the decision > if I can or can't fly anymore. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > 260 hours on the engine and awaiting medical clearance > > > 

>
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________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:08 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st Jose- It was really strange that I was thinking about John M's 577-hr problems, and thinking that until I got past that magic number, I'd be concerned. Came up 15 hours shy....damn! : ) I haven't posted on Jab yet....I was waiting until I could total all the stuff that will require replacing or repairing. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200 Status: flying...oops...holding short at 561.8 hrs On Aug 4, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Jose M. Toro wrote: > Lynn: > > I'm glad you and the plane are ok. I have a Jab 2200 since Jan > 2005 that have not flown yet. After your story and John M's, I > wonder why should I trust this engine. Have you posted on the > Jabiruengines list? They may provide valuable information. > > Best Regards! > > Jose > N369JT (another 369) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:21 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: varnish before or after? Jorge, I glued first and then varnished them in place. I think that that is the best way. Randy Series 5/7 912S 200 hours. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jlfernan Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 4:54 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: varnish before or after? Now, what about on the HS and elevators? Some of the ribs butt up against cross members, and if you glue them first, than you can't do the area next to the cross member? Should I varnish them and then scuff them before gluing? -------- Jorge Fernandez Supersport Just starting! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196502#196502 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox survives emergency landing...my 1st From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Guys I think we need to keep this in perspective - Now that I've returned to Australia I've learned that there are hundreds of these engines being used in most Recreational training aircrafts in Australia and they are also rapidly gaining respect throughout Europe and N.America. I am not saying this because I have a Jab also, as have flown behind 912's and 582's and also respect them highly. Unfortunately anything mechanical can fail but it will be very interesting to see what Lynn finds when he takes a look "inside". I don't believe that there have been many reported Jab2200A failures Best regards, Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200A Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Landing and engine pictures From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Lynn I am going to run these photos past the local Jab technician here in Adelaide as he is a wealth of info on the Jab engines and is in fact in charge of mtce training here in Aus. I'll let you know what he says. (He has converted his 2200 to Fuel injection and develops about another 20Hp! regards Gary Gary Algate SMC, Exploration Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:44 PM PST US From: "Rupert Tinker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start Hi Jerry: The Paradise EAA Chapter 735 has an manometer for checking ASI's and leaks in the tubing to the ASI. Right now it is in the back of my hanger at the Paradise Airport. You are welcome to use it anytime. Rupert Tinker Kitfox II, 582, still under construction Paradise, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: jerry evans To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 5:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: ASI's at what speed do they start I just went out for my first test run today When does the airspeed indicator start indicating ? I have made several runs down the runway got the tail off the ground, all went well, but I have no airspeed on the ASI , when I blow on it, gently I get 30 - 50 -70 Indicated so I feel that it works. When does it start indicating? I just don't feel comfortable going for that first take off with out a ASI working. Anyone know about this or have suggestions? Thanks Jerry Jerry Evans 96% done 582 Magalia Calif. N582'er' kitfox 555 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:50 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Landing and engine pictures At 05:38 PM 8/4/2008, you wrote: >Here's a couple of shots of this weekend's fun and relaxation in the >aviation hobby. : ) I'm sorry to say that, from an engineering perspective, that's a very sorry looking gear. I'm also wondering what the heck the little flat gear is for. I sure hope they redesigned this area at some point. (The picture in the field looks great, however!) Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. 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