Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Re: multiple postings (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 06:04 AM - Model 4 wing rigging (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 06:09 AM - Re: setting flaperon hanger bracket questions (on Kitfox 4) (Lynn Matteson)
4. 07:41 AM - Re: Model 4 wing rigging (Tom Jones)
5. 08:20 AM - Re: multiple postings (Noel Loveys)
6. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: Dacron life (Noel Loveys)
7. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Noel Loveys)
8. 09:02 AM - Re: Dacron life (Michel Verheughe)
9. 09:33 AM - Re: Model 4 wing rigging (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
10. 09:36 AM - Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (JetPilot)
11. 09:47 AM - Re: Dacron life (JetPilot)
12. 09:53 AM - Re: malware in e-mail (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
13. 10:16 AM - Re: Wiring and panel questions (Noel Loveys)
14. 10:31 AM - Inspiration.... (darinh)
15. 10:35 AM - Re: Inspiration.... (SkySteve)
16. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (fox5flyer)
17. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Model 4 wing rigging (Lynn Matteson)
18. 10:42 AM - Re: Re: Dacron life (Noel Loveys)
19. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Noel Loveys)
20. 10:50 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Lynn Matteson)
21. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Lynn Matteson)
22. 11:10 AM - Re: Inspiration.... (darinh)
23. 11:43 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (fox5flyer)
24. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
25. 12:07 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
26. 12:09 PM - Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (JetPilot)
27. 12:25 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (darinh)
28. 12:28 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
29. 12:30 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (JetPilot)
30. 12:37 PM - Re: 100 LL in Briggs and Stratton (way off topic) (n85ae)
31. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Dave)
32. 12:49 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (fox5flyer)
33. 12:59 PM - Re: multiple postings (Dwight Purdy)
34. 01:09 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (Lynn Matteson)
35. 01:17 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Lynn Matteson)
36. 02:31 PM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 09/12/08 (Ed Gray)
37. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
38. 04:19 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
39. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
40. 04:33 PM - propellers (bob noffs)
41. 04:33 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (fox5flyer)
42. 04:46 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (Dee Young)
43. 05:41 PM - Looking for Kitfox Webpages !!! (JetPilot)
44. 06:31 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (Lynn Matteson)
45. 06:51 PM - Re: multiple postings (patrick reilly)
46. 07:07 PM - Fw: Re: gsc three blade prop (jerry evans)
47. 07:08 PM - Re: multiple postings (jerry evans)
48. 07:18 PM - Re: Inspiration.... (darinh)
49. 08:19 PM - Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (rudderdancer)
50. 08:31 PM - Re: 100 LL in Briggs and Stratton (way off topic) (rudderdancer)
51. 10:08 PM - Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (JetPilot)
52. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight (william Mills)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: multiple postings |
I too on occasion get multiple postings and will get 1/2 of all messages in
nothing but x's and o's
Dick Maddux
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Model 4 wing rigging |
Ever since I bought my airplane last year I have noticed it sits on the
ground with the left wing quite low as compared to the right. I had thought it
to
be a weak bungee on that side or possible gear alignment.
Yesterday I measured and it is not the fuselage that is crooked it is the
wing dihedral.
I looked throughout my plans and can find nothing on aircraft assembly or
wing rigging.
Today I will run a string across the top of the wing behind the leading edge
to see how far I am off by measuring each wing at the root.
The aircraft will fly hands off when wind conditions allow but siting on the
ramp "one wing low" is starting to bug me. It is easily a foot or lower than
the other wing.
Anyone have any instructions on properly setting the wing? I know I had
instructions on how to do it for my Piper Pacer in the manual I used to have but
I sure can"t find it in the Kitfox books
Thanks !
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,
plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: setting flaperon hanger bracket questions (on Kitfox |
4)
I learned right on this list that that dimension isn't all that
critical...only that all hinge brackets are the same dimension. I
found out like you did that that area is going to get real tight
after covering. I cheated on the dimension a bit...can't recall how
much right now, and it all came out just fine.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
waiting for new ignition system
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Sep 14, 2008, at 6:12 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
> Hi all. Well things are moveing along on my project, not to far
> from being ready to cover. I am finishing up the last things on
> the wings and am now trying to temporairly mount the flaperon
> hanger brackets. In the manual it says to drill the holes before
> covering to keep the debris out of the finished wing. On page W-
> D-5 of the Sept 24 92 manual edition it shows a picture of how far
> back to mount the bracket. 0.194 from the trailing edge of the
> wing to the front of the upper bolt that holds the flaperon hinge
> to the brackets. I made a tool to gauge that dimention (see
> picture) and that forces the brackets up the wing to the point
> that they start to spread open. (see picture) If it is too tight
> now what will it be like after the layers of fabric and finishing
> tape are in place? How critical is that 0.194 dimention or will
> it make any real difference if the flaperon is somewhat farther
> back so that one isn't bending the brackets to get them to close up
> on the bottom of the rib? If you bend/distort them very much then
> the hole spaceing will change and the flaperon hinges wont fit.
> When I rivited the brackets togeather I used one of the hinges to
> space the holes the right distence apart as I drilled the rivet
> hole. Hopefully I was able to put my question on paper in a way
> that makes sence. Thanks Jim Chuk Kiffox 4 building Mn
> >
> >
> >=============
> >
> >
> >
>
> Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile ph93185mrt/
> direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
> <Kitfox 4 build pics 033.jpg>
> <Kitfox 4 build pics 031.jpg>
> <Kitfox 4 build pics 032.jpg>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 wing rigging |
Dick, if you did find the wing rigging instructions in your manual you would go
nuts following them and chasing the rigging. A service letter came out after
I had already gone nuts with the manual instructions. Here it is
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_letters/sl25b.htm
It is fairly easy to do before the wings are covered but I think you can use these
instructions to get the idea on how to check the dihedral to compare your
wings to each other with the covering on.
A smart level will make comparing the wings with each other real easy but you will
need to use a bubble level to check against factory specs.
Once the bottom attach hole and strut attach bracket holes are drilled in the spar
only minor wing rigging adjustments can be made.
The wings will fly level even if the dihedral is different between wings. The
fuselage will just be hanging at an angle under the wings.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4373#204373
Message 5
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| Subject: | multiple postings |
I wouldn't worry about a virus by just reading an E-Mail.../ Viruses live in
the attachments or on websites you go to through links
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: multiple postings
Got 4 or 5 of this one Guy.
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Guy Buchanan <mailto:bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: multiple postings
At 07:56 AM 9/14/2008, you wrote:
Is anyone else having this problem? I am getting sometimes up to nine of the
same postings. This has been going on for about a week. Only from the kitfox
list. I have recently started using Outlook Express. Each posting has a
different time on the received tab.
I haven't seen anything either. Are you still getting them?
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 6
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Several certified aircraft require their coverings to be tested around every
five years with the recommendation to replace skins after 15 yr. That was
the recommendation with Egyptian cotton. Newer Dacron cloths do deteriorate
with UV light. However on most planes they are finished with UV blocker and
I have seen twenty year old jobs that look perfect. The sails used on most
UL are not finished and do not have the UV blocker. I think the
recommendation with those is to replace then every five years... every
second year if the plane is left outside.
If you have unfinished Dacron, it's the same stuff as Ceconite, then I would
get someone who has flown that material for several years to have a look at
it.
As for the 45 deg N., remember that the ozone levels are thinnest at the
poles, make that circles, (arctic) and you're more than halfway there. Our
summer days are also a lot longer so a plane left out is actually subjected
to a lot more UV than one in, say Florida.
Michel's sails don't often get to any altitude where UV light levels are
higher and worst case scenario he would just put up another sail or heave to
and sew the one he was using.... You can't do that at 1000 ft. J
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Dacron life
> From: James Shumaker [jimshumaker@sbcglobal.net]
> Unprotected dacron will deteriorate very quickly.
Well ... if Dacron is Dacron and the same as what we use to make sails, it
looks quite resistant to me. I've had sails for at least 20 years. What goes
first are the seams, though. It looks like the thread used to sew them is
less UV resistant.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as a PAX.
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution</a>
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
If the prop, torqued on to spec, changes pitch in operation than either the
hub or the blade roots are damaged... Either way this can result in a blade
departure. A blade departure can sure put a big dent in your day. The
excessive vibrations caused by a blade departure have been known to rip the
engine from the plane putting the Balance part of W&B out the window...
There is no recovery. Several guys have put a cable around their engines to
keep them in approximately the right position in the event of a departure.
You may want to consider doing this if you intend to continue flying on a
potentially dangerous prop.
I'd take that prop and mount it in my den. Then get something else to fly
on.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nick4853
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight
Be careful I believe this prop has been Known to separate in flight creating
a severe out of balance situation which could tear the engine off its mount
which would then lead to a severe aft cg issue. I think GSC recommends a 5
year 500 hour TBO. There should be a gap between hub halves the lack of gap
could indicate an over torque situation which could mean the prop roots are
crushed. When I bought my model IV it had the 68" GSC 3 blade from 1994 and
there was no gap at the hub I decided to replace the whole assembly with a
Warp drive 70" taper tip that did not have the limitations the GSC had.
Hope this helps if nothing else encourages you to investigate the gsc more.
Nick W.
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4263#204263
Message 8
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> From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys@yahoo.ca]
> Michel's sails don't often get to any altitude where UV light levels are
> higher
Hum, that's right, Noel. My mast is high but not that high! :-)
Michel
do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 wing rigging |
a couple of thoughts. Check the inflation on the tires:-)
Level the frame left right and longitudinally.
Check dihedral of each wing. If you can't locate a smart level try a Craftsman
needle level resting on a bubble level across the ribs at the front spar location
and the same distance outboard on each wing.
Some adjustment can be made to the strut rod ends without tweaking the jury struts,
but replacing them would be relatively inexpensive if necessary.
I adjusted the strut rod ends several times over the first year to get hands off
straight and level. The turn coordinator/dihedral etc are not independent.....
John Kerr
Classic IV, 912ul, 778 hours
Logan UT
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Catz631@aol.com
Ever since I bought my airplane last year I have noticed it sits on the ground
with the left wing quite low as compared to the right. I had thought it to be
a weak bungee on that side or possible gear alignment.
Yesterday I measured and it is not the fuselage that is crooked it is the wing
dihedral.
I looked throughout my plans and can find nothing on aircraft assembly or wing
rigging.
Today I will run a string across the top of the wing behind the leading edge to
see how far I am off by measuring each wing at the root.
The aircraft will fly hands off when wind conditions allow but siting on the ramp
"one wing low" is starting to bug me. It is easily a foot or lower than the
other wing.
Anyone have any instructions on properly setting the wing? I know I had instructions
on how to do it for my Piper Pacer in the manual I used to have but I
sure can"t find it in the Kitfox books
Thanks !
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall
trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.
<html><body>
<DIV>a couple of thoughts. Check the inflation on the tires:-)</DIV>
<DIV>Level the frame left right and longitudinally.</DIV>
<DIV>Check dihedral of each wing. If you can't locate a smart level try a
Craftsman needle level resting on a bubble level across the ribs at the front
spar location and the same distance outboard on each wing. </DIV>
<DIV>Some adjustment can be made to the strut rod ends without tweaking the jury
struts, but replacing them would be relatively inexpensive if necessary.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I adjusted the strut rod ends several times over the first year to get
hands off straight and level. The turn coordinator/dihedral etc are not
independent.....</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV>Classic IV, 912ul, 778 hours</DIV>
<DIV>Logan UT</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px
solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: Catz631@aol.com
<BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16705" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV>Ever since I bought my airplane last year I have noticed it sits on the ground
with the left wing quite low as compared to the right. I had thought it to
be a weak bungee on that side or possible gear alignment.</DIV>
<DIV> Yesterday I measured and it is not the fuselage that is crooked it is
the wing dihedral. </DIV>
<DIV> I looked throughout my plans and can find nothing on aircraft assembly
or wing rigging.</DIV>
<DIV> Today I will run a string across the top of the wing behind the leading
edge to see how far I am off by measuring each wing at the root.</DIV>
<DIV> The aircraft will fly hands off when wind conditions allow but siting
on the ramp "one wing low" is starting to bug me. It is easily a foot or
lower than the other wing.</DIV>
<DIV> Anyone have any instructions on properly setting the wing? I know I
had instructions on how to do it for my Piper Pacer in the manual I used
to have but I sure can"t find it in the Kitfox books </DIV>
<DIV>
Thanks
!</DIV>
<DIV>
Dick
Maddux</DIV>
<DIV>
Fox
4-1200</DIV>
<DIV>
Pensacola,Fl</DIV><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT style="FONT: 10pt ARIAL, SAN-SERIF; COLOR: black">
<HR style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px">
Psssst...Have you heard the news? <A title=http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014 href="http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014" target=_blank>There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com</A>.</FONT></DIV><PRE><B><FONT face="courier new,courier" size=2 color000000?>
</B></FONT></PRE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
Your best solution to this problem would be to get a Warp Drive, Powerfin, or other
composite propeller . GSC props have bad history of losing entire blades
resulting in crashes. I did a lot of research on this subject, the cases are
well documented on the net. In the end I chose to buy a Warp drive prop. I'm
sure there will be some guys out there that will be offended by me pointing
out the bad history of their favorite props, but this is the reality and well
documented. Good and accurate advice is far more important that trying to make
everyone happy all the time. I will be happy to start a thread post a bunch
links to the GSC prop problems if need be...
As everyone here says, the loss of a prop blade is very likely fatal. The engine
is ripped off the airplane in a fraction of a second ( Don't think you will
have time to shut it off, its not humanly possible ), and the airplane is left
uncontrollable due to the extreme tail heavy condition ( Down elevator wont
be enough to keep it flying ). Do yourself a favor, spend whatever it takes to
fix or replace your prop.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4392#204392
Message 11
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Unprotected Dacron wing coverings go bad very quickly in sunlight... You can put
a clear UV protectant on them that will help, but its effectiveness is limited
and they will still go bad very quickly if left outside. The reason these
slip on coverings are used is ease of installation. Many " Ultralight " guys
are intimidated by covering... I was at first, did not want any part of it
!! I have learned a lot since then :)
Unprotected Poly Fiber will lose 85 % of its strength in ONE YEAR according to
the company. When covering your airplane, make sure you do a good job with the
UV blocking coats, or you will have the pleasure of recovering your plane again
very quickly [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4396#204396
Message 12
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| Subject: | RE: malware in e-mail |
On Mon, September 15, 2008 8:20 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> I wouldn't worry about a virus by just reading an E-Mail.../ Viruses live in
> the attachments or on websites you go to through links
> Noel
For the most part that is true. However, when the e-mail is composed with SHTML,
XML,
HTML or a mix such as the one you posted it contains links that are automatically
executed. An example that you commonly see is embedded photos in e-mails - those
display commonly depending on both the mail server (MTA) that delivers the mail
and
your mail reader. If someone is running for example a Windows XP system and using
Office Outlook or Outlook Express as a mail client and neither have been upgraded
through Service Pack 2, then embedded links with ACtive Server Pages (ASP) execture
automatically. These can deliver a malware payload containing worms, virii or spyware
bots. ESpecially vulnerable are those people that haven't kept up with security
updates. I used to be very adamant about running mail lists that contain no html
content and this is one of the reasons.
If you keep current with security updates which are free from MS, you're in good
shape.
<http://v4.windowsupdate.microsoft.com/>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 13
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| Subject: | Wiring and panel questions |
My PTT was just wired by dropping the wire down inside the stick and then
under the floor and up the back of the fire wall. From there the wire with
a 1/8 in jack exits the panel next to where I clip the A24.
As for the gauges if you want to take advantage of the panel options you
will have to install senders in the tamks.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jlfernan
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 11:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wiring and panel questions
I'm just thinking ahead, but how are people running the wiring for the PTT
thru the their sticks? And for those using "glass" panels, I've noticed most
MFD's have fuel level indicators. Since the Kitfox has sight tubes, what do
you do about the guages on the MFD, just run with them indicating empty?
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
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Message 14
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Here is some inspiration for you guys that are still slaving away in the shop.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4409#204409
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |
Hey, Darin,
She looks great! Where were you? Salt Flats?
John Oakley and I plan to go to Wings & Wheels in Wendover next Sat (9/20/2008).
Wanna go? A flight of three Kitfoxes?
--------
Steve Wilson
Huntsville, UT
Kitfox Model 134 - 85DD
912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive
Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
Mike, I know of only one blade departure on a GSC prop, but there may be
others. It was a person right here on this list. The closeup photos of it
indicated that it had a lot of wood rot inside the hub supposedly from being
left outside for extended periods. I'm not defending GSC nor do I own one,
but to satisfy my curiosity I'd appreciate it if you would produce some of
those cases that are so well documented. I couldn't find much.
As I recall, IVO went through some very bad times and nearly closed the
doors after some of their props shed blades. There were lots of stories
being circulated and IVO took a real beating from the feeding frenzy that
was spawned on the web. Fortunately, they recovered and they are now doing
well, or at least they appear to.
Thanks,
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight
>
> Your best solution to this problem would be to get a Warp Drive, Powerfin,
> or other composite propeller . GSC props have bad history of losing
> entire blades resulting in crashes. I did a lot of research on this
> subject, the cases are well documented on the net. In the end I chose to
> buy a Warp drive prop. I'm sure there will be some guys out there that
> will be offended by me pointing out the bad history of their favorite
> props, but this is the reality and well documented. Good and accurate
> advice is far more important that trying to make everyone happy all the
> time. I will be happy to start a thread post a bunch links to the GSC
> prop problems if need be...
>
> As everyone here says, the loss of a prop blade is very likely fatal. The
> engine is ripped off the airplane in a fraction of a second ( Don't think
> you will have time to shut it off, its not humanly possible ), and the
> airplane is left uncontrollable due to the extreme tail heavy condition
> ( Down elevator wont be enough to keep it flying ). Do yourself a favor,
> spend whatever it takes to fix or replace your prop.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4392#204392
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Model 4 wing rigging |
Just for kicks the other day, I placed my Smart Level on top of a 4-
ft bubble level, and was amazed to see that a 1/10th of a degree can
easily be seen in the bubble placement within the lines of the
bubble level...2/10ths of a degree is way off.....I know, I know, I
need to get my plane back in the air and quit doing these things, but
an idle mind, etc, etc.....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
waiting for new ignition system
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Sep 15, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
> A smart level will make comparing the wings with each other real
> easy but you will need to use a bubble level to check against
> factory specs.
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4373#204373
>
>
Message 18
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If you, like I, fly on floats it's a good idea to make sure your whole
airplane is treated with a good black out blocker.
Poly spray is a good one but for those experimenting with house paint,
black should work. Just don't leave the wings/ upper surfaces black because
they will heat up with the sun and cause the fabric to sag... not good
either on or off the ground. This is why all the planes with composite
wings generally have then white or off white colouration.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:17 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Dacron life
Unprotected Dacron wing coverings go bad very quickly in sunlight... You
can put a clear UV protectant on them that will help, but its effectiveness
is limited and they will still go bad very quickly if left outside. The
reason these slip on coverings are used is ease of installation. Many "
Ultralight " guys are intimidated by covering... I was at first, did not
want any part of it !! I have learned a lot since then :)
Unprotected Poly Fiber will lose 85 % of its strength in ONE YEAR according
to the company. When covering your airplane, make sure you do a good job
with the UV blocking coats, or you will have the pleasure of recovering your
plane again very quickly [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4396#204396
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
I don't think the GSC props are that bad....BUT they do have a time expiry
on them and if there is any damage or issues with any prop give it the deep
six, put a clock in it or put two notches in it and call it an ashtray.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight
Your best solution to this problem would be to get a Warp Drive, Powerfin,
or other composite propeller . GSC props have bad history of losing entire
blades resulting in crashes. I did a lot of research on this subject, the
cases are well documented on the net. In the end I chose to buy a Warp
drive prop. I'm sure there will be some guys out there that will be
offended by me pointing out the bad history of their favorite props, but
this is the reality and well documented. Good and accurate advice is far
more important that trying to make everyone happy all the time. I will be
happy to start a thread post a bunch links to the GSC prop problems if need
be...
As everyone here says, the loss of a prop blade is very likely fatal. The
engine is ripped off the airplane in a fraction of a second ( Don't think
you will have time to shut it off, its not humanly possible ), and the
airplane is left uncontrollable due to the extreme tail heavy condition (
Down elevator wont be enough to keep it flying ). Do yourself a favor,
spend whatever it takes to fix or replace your prop.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4392#204392
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
Do yourself another favor and wrap a cable around the engine, through
the firewall, around the tubing, and connect the ends of the cable
together. I'm hoping that the loss of a prop blade will at least keep
the engine somewhat attached to the airframe and allow for a somewhat
balanced landing. If not, I've just spent less than $10 for some
piece of mind.
All this talk of losing prop blades makes me think that there is
something to be said for fixed pitch, one-piece props, even though
these can come undone under the right/wrong circumstances, too.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
waiting for new ignition system
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
On Sep 15, 2008, at 12:36 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> Your best solution to this problem would be to get a Warp Drive,
> Powerfin, or other composite propeller . GSC props have bad
> history of losing entire blades resulting in crashes. I did a lot
> of research on this subject, the cases are well documented on the
> net. In the end I chose to buy a Warp drive prop. I'm sure there
> will be some guys out there that will be offended by me pointing
> out the bad history of their favorite props, but this is the
> reality and well documented. Good and accurate advice is far more
> important that trying to make everyone happy all the time. I will
> be happy to start a thread post a bunch links to the GSC prop
> problems if need be...
>
> As everyone here says, the loss of a prop blade is very likely
> fatal. The engine is ripped off the airplane in a fraction of a
> second ( Don't think you will have time to shut it off, its not
> humanly possible ), and the airplane is left uncontrollable due to
> the extreme tail heavy condition ( Down elevator wont be enough to
> keep it flying ). Do yourself a favor, spend whatever it takes to
> fix or replace your prop.
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4392#204392
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
If Gary Algate sees this, tell 'em about your lost prop incident,
Gary...that was a hairy ride, I'll bet.
It might be that Deke is referring to Gary....eh, Deke?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane;
waiting for new ignition system
Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
do not archive
On Sep 15, 2008, at 1:40 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> Mike, I know of only one blade departure on a GSC prop, but there
> may be others. It was a person right here on this list. The
> closeup photos of it indicated that it had a lot of wood rot inside
> the hub supposedly from being left outside for extended periods.
> I'm not defending GSC nor do I own one, but to satisfy my curiosity
> I'd appreciate it if you would produce some of those cases that are
> so well documented. I couldn't find much.
> As I recall, IVO went through some very bad times and nearly closed
> the doors after some of their props shed blades. There were lots
> of stories being circulated and IVO took a real beating from the
> feeding frenzy that was spawned on the web. Fortunately, they
> recovered and they are now doing well, or at least they appear to.
> Thanks,
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |
Steve,
That is just West of ATK. I would love to go but my limitation won't let me go
any farther west than Promontory Point until the 40 hrs are off.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4425#204425
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
No, Gary was swinging an NSI CAP with Warp blades, not a GSC. See how
these things evolve? The Warp blade that departed stuck through his float
so he was able to land and recover it for inspection. Lots of damage, but
the engine remained attached by the various wiring and throttle cables, etc.
He's lucky to have survived.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2008 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight
>
> If Gary Algate sees this, tell 'em about your lost prop incident,
> Gary...that was a hairy ride, I'll bet.
>
> It might be that Deke is referring to Gary....eh, Deke?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs...engine assembled and back in the plane; waiting
> for new ignition system
> Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink
> Floyd..."Learning to Fly")
> do not archive
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2008, at 1:40 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>>
>> Mike, I know of only one blade departure on a GSC prop, but there may be
>> others. It was a person right here on this list. The closeup photos of
>> it indicated that it had a lot of wood rot inside the hub supposedly
>> from being left outside for extended periods. I'm not defending GSC nor
>> do I own one, but to satisfy my curiosity I'd appreciate it if you would
>> produce some of those cases that are so well documented. I couldn't
>> find much.
>> As I recall, IVO went through some very bad times and nearly closed the
>> doors after some of their props shed blades. There were lots of stories
>> being circulated and IVO took a real beating from the feeding frenzy
>> that was spawned on the web. Fortunately, they recovered and they are
>> now doing well, or at least they appear to.
>> Thanks,
>> Deke Morisse
>> Mikado Michigan
>> S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
>> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
>> progress."
>> - Joseph Joubert
>>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
On Mon, September 15, 2008 10:40 am, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> Mike, I know of only one blade departure on a GSC prop, but there may be
> others. It was a person right here on this list. The closeup photos of it
> indicated that it had a lot of wood rot inside the hub supposedly from being
> left outside for extended periods. I'm not defending GSC nor do I own one,
> but to satisfy my curiosity I'd appreciate it if you would produce some of
> those cases that are so well documented. I couldn't find much.
Here's one documented and some factory comments about maintenance.
<http://www.ultralightnews.com/safety_bulletins/gsc_servicebulletin.htm>
Here's another due to blade strike during flight. GSC states 500 Hour TBO and posts
a
link to the maintenance procedures.
<http://www.ultralightnews.ca/advisories1/propadvisory.htm>
Here's a 2006 posting from this list. Don't shim, buy new blades.
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=86857&sid=336a7f8b7126385eb6eb3d9c86e2c280>
Here's a 1999 Service bulletin from GSC regarding 500 hour TBO
<http://www.auf.asn.au/airworthiness/gscactualsb.doc>
Here's another article on a GSC failure from this list
<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=67085>
Looks to me that finding a catastrophic failure that wasn't due to corrosion and
rot
is not easily found. Quite a few hearsay claims but actually none that I could
find.
Looks to me that what's consistent is:
1) exposure to water (rain) is something to be avoided due to corrosion and wood
rot,
both of which lead to progressive failure.
2) don't exceed the 100 in-lb torque
3) TBO is 500 Hrs
4) Great factory support including telephone support.
Seems like a sound company and product to me. You've got to observe the limitations
of
installation and usage. If you can't/won't then other options may be better suited
for
you.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |
On Mon, September 15, 2008 10:30 am, darinh wrote:
>
> Here is some inspiration for you guys that are still slaving away in the shop.
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2604_large_536.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2603_large_130.jpg
Looks like Bonneville Salt Flats. Any restrictions on landing there?
Good looking plane, nice workmanship is apparent.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: gsc props changing pitch in flight |
I researched propeller blade separations because I have a Kiev Hot Prop that has
rave reviews for being quiet and efficient. The prop did run very nice, but
the lightness and thin diameter of the adapter always made me nervous. I
never did find any history of blade separations or hub failures on Kiev Hot props,
but I constantly came across GSC blade separations in my research.
When an airline maintenance inspector saw my prop and made made the comment that
the hub looked to " Lightly Built " to resist fatigue over time, I bit the bullet
and changed out the Kiev prop for a Warp drive.
The Cable around the engine is a great idea for the Kitfox I am building, it would
not help my Kolb much where the engine coming lose would probably cause the
prop to slice the tail boom right off [Shocked]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4431#204431
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |
This isn't as far west as Bonneville Salt Flats. I am sure there are restrictions
in areas such as the Bear River Bird Refuge and other such places but we have
literally endless acres of this type of landscape that you can land on here
in Utah and Eastern Nevada.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4436#204436
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |
Darin, I love it.
John
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
>
> Here is some inspiration for you guys that are still slaving away in the shop.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4409#204409
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2604_large_536.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2603_large_130.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Darin, I love it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
Email
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Inspiration.... |