Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:16 AM - Re: KitFox 7 Elevator for sale (Dorsal)
2. 07:52 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL (Chuck Popenoe)
3. 08:25 AM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL (Keith C.)
4. 08:48 AM - Re: Coolant tank paint (Guy Buchanan)
5. 09:49 AM - 582 vs 503 (Jeffrey Dill)
6. 10:29 AM - Re: 582 vs 503 (aerobatics@AOL.COM)
7. 10:36 AM - Re: 582 vs 503 (Tom Jones)
8. 10:50 AM - pictures of full lotus rigging (wingman)
9. 12:22 PM - Re: TCP use - Mixing Additives was Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL (jdmcbean)
10. 12:55 PM - Re: pictures of full lotus rigging (akflyer)
11. 02:05 PM - Altimeter Question (Pete Christensen)
12. 02:08 PM - Water temperature guage (Bob Brennan)
13. 02:10 PM - model 7 Fabric at butt rib to fuselage question? (SUE MICHAELS)
14. 02:34 PM - Re: Altimeter Question (Michel Verheughe)
15. 03:12 PM - Re: Altimeter Question (paul wilson)
16. 04:05 PM - Re: Coolant tank paint (patrick reilly)
17. 04:05 PM - Re: Altimeter Question (Tom Jones)
18. 04:32 PM - Water temperature guage (Bob Brennan)
19. 05:02 PM - Re: KitFox 7 Elevator for sale (Dale Orth)
20. 05:15 PM - Re: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
21. 05:59 PM - Re: Re: Altimeter Question (Pete Christensen)
22. 07:56 PM - Swap Meet (Keithc)
23. 08:11 PM - Series 4 1200 project For Sale (Keithc)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: KitFox 7 Elevator for sale |
Dale,
Is this a result of changing trim systems?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6081#206081
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL |
Trying again for the hyperlink re NTSB and MMO, which got screwed up:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC0
2LA181&
akey=1"http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&ntsbn
o=NYC02
LA181&akey=1
Pops
Checked by AVG.
9/25/2008
7:05 AM
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| Subject: | Re: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL |
Pops,
Thanks for the info. I sold my Fox and the new owner is flying it home.
That was one of the items he took along for the trip. He also took
Decalin from the McBeans. I will let him know the info.
Thanks,
Keith C.
Saving to build.
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Popenoe
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL
Keith-
The recommended ratio for Marvel Mystery Oil is 100:1. However,
before deciding to use MMO in your avgas, be sure to read the following
NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC02
LA181&akey=1
Good luck!
Pops
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
Message 4
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| Subject: | Coolant tank paint |
At 05:41 PM 9/24/2008, you wrote:
>Guy, I didn't want to spend that much time. But, My buffing wheel
>could use a work out. Where can I get Sterling gloss, what type of paint is it?
Pat,
Really, any LP or urethane clear will do, but I've had
excellent results with Sterling and it's easy to get in San Diego,
being as it's used heavily in the yachting industry.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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Excuse the pun, I am weighing the idea of downsizing form a 582 to a 503 on my
model 2. the main reason is weight savings to stay within 950 loaded with 2 adults.
Rotax actually advertises a heavier weight for the 503, which is 71 lbs
versus 65 lbs for a 582. I have to assume that those numbers do not include the
weight of radiator and water, etc. The one I saw was absent the oil tank as
well using premixed fuel. Does anybody know the actual weight difference between
the installation of one versus the other?
--------
Jeff Dill
Model 2
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6129#206129
Message 6
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while I don't know the answer.... I will chime in by saying both are
good choices. I have exp with both.... there are model differences
the 503 I used was twin carb oil injected and over 3 years and ablout
250 it was perfect Very simple light and pwerful. A cjouple years
ago at OSH I saw a mdl 4 on a 503 and it flew well. But the 582 blue
head is significantly more powerfull at a small increase ase in
burn. If climb and short field is important to you its hard to beat the
582 lots of good choices.... if fuel burn is important concide HKS on
a mdl 2 )
Message 7
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Jeffrey Dill wrote:
> Excuse the pun, I am weighing the idea of downsizing form a 582 to a 503 on my
model 2. the main reason is weight savings to stay within 950 loaded with 2
adults. Rotax actually advertises a heavier weight for the 503, which is 71 lbs
versus 65 lbs for a 582. I have to assume that those numbers do not include
the weight of radiator and water, etc. The one I saw was absent the oil tank as
well using premixed fuel. Does anybody know the actual weight difference between
the installation of one versus the other?
Jeffrey, I have looked at this question quite a bit too. On Kodiak's website http://www.kodiakbs.com/ you can find the weights for both engines and accessories. Added up the 582 installed weight is still 2.2 pounds lighter than the 503. The only thing not included as near as I can tell is the coolant and maybe the coolant hoses and clamps.
I came to the conclusion that the only way to save some significant weight is to
get rid of all electronic accessories and install a rope starter. The battery
being the big weight item. Still I think I figured I could lose only a little
over 12 pounds. I have a small battery already though.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6142#206142
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| Subject: | pictures of full lotus rigging |
Hello fellow aviators
I am in the process of rigging full lotus floats 1260
to my Kitfox IV 1200 with a Rotax 912S.
Of course many questions arises during the process even though i have the manuals
and have searched the net and saved all pictures of interest.
However if some of you have some pictures to share it would be highly appreciated.
Closeups is extra good.
I am planning on designing my own amphib solution so any amphib pictures would
also be a treat.
Wingman 5507
--------
Kitfox IV 1200
Rotax 912 ULS
Rigging full lotus floats at the moment
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6143#206143
Message 9
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| Subject: | TCP use - Mixing Additives was Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL |
IMPORTANT !!
There are different TCP products. The Decalin product we sell uses a
different carrying agent then the other brand. That is also why ours
shipped in the mail. To mix this with another additive is not a good
idea.
Fact is: mixing any different additives is not good judgment and should
not
be done.
While on this subject=85 when using our TCP product is calls for =BD oz
per 10
gallons and is easily applied. This is not a =93more is better=94
product=85 if
you were to put 17 gallons (shy of 20) of 100LL it is not better to put
a
full 1oz of TCP in.
Any questions please feel free to give me a shout.
Fly Safe !!
John & Debra McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith C.
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL
Pops,
Thanks for the info. I sold my Fox and the new owner is flying it home.
That was one of the items he took along for the trip. He also took
Decalin
from the McBeans. I will let him know the info.
Thanks,
Keith C.
Saving to build.
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck Popenoe <mailto:cpops@verizon.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL
Keith-
The recommended ratio for Marvel Mystery Oil is 100:1. However, before
deciding to use MMO in your avgas, be sure to read the following NTSB
report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610
<http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 020916X01610&ntsbno=NYC0
2LA181&
akey=1> &ntsbno=NYC02LA181&akey=1
Good luck!
Pops
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
Checked by AVG.
9/24/2008 6:29 AM
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matron
href
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: pictures of full lotus rigging |
Good luck.
Here is what I have found... The 1260 or 1220 do not have enough flotation on the
forward half of the float to allow you to put the step far enough back to be
able to get on step at gross weight. With the 912 I think you will be OK but
with the 582, you just cant push the nose over at gross. If you do move the
floats back to get the step 6" behind the CG then you will take water over the
nose of the floats if you pull back on the power to fast.
I am going to order a set of 1450's for mine this winter. The have the same length
tails as the 1220's but are 15" longer in the nose. This solves the problem
and works GREAT.
I also played with the angle of incidence alot to get best performance. I think
i settled on 3 degrees, but don't quote me on that till I get back home and
check it.
I can get install pics next week when I get back home if it will help you.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6164#206164
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| Subject: | Altimeter Question |
When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get about a 200' error
in altitude reading compared to my GPS reading. I suppose this is
common when the static pickup is inside the cabin. I set my altimeter
to the GPS reading and forget it. Any problems with this solution?
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
III SN1000
912
Message 12
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| Subject: | Water temperature guage |
Hi all - my water temperature gauge is suddenly swinging full scale on a
cold engine.
Two things recently that could affect it:
1. I had the dash off to replace the lord mounts, so 1st thing to check
was open wires - nope.
2. On most recent flight the gauge went well into the red after taxi and
was erratic. Thinking "better check coolant level" I did, when cold, and it
was full to the top as well as a few inches in the overflow.
The gauge has a good ground, a good 12+vdc, and 6.87vdc on the sensor lead
on a cold engine and 60f day.
I guess what I need to know is: should 6.87v pin the needle(hard!) on full
scale? ie does anyone know what is the normal voltage range of the sensor,
as in - does 6.87vdc = 60f?
There are no manufacturer's markings on the gauge or sensor that I can find.
Thanks in advance for any info or where to look.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
Message 13
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| Subject: | model 7 Fabric at butt rib to fuselage question? |
My 1994 fabric manual shows bending a couple very small aluminum plates at
each end of the butt rib and-place fabric around them and the butt rib.
-Has any one come up with something different. A couple pictures would be
great since I'm stuck in the imagination department.=0A=0AGeorge=0A=0Ado n
ot archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Altimeter Question |
> From: Pete Christensen [apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net]
> When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get about a 200' error in altitude
> reading compared to my GPS reading.
Oops! First, yes Pete, the pressure inside the cockpit varies a lot. A static port
going aft of the fuselage is best. Secondly, the GPS altitude reading is seldom
accurate to 200 ft. If you think of the geometry of the GPS satellites;
the angle between them and then their relatively low altitude (angle) in relation
to you, you understand that the Y axis (altitude) is less accurate than the
X,Z (latitude, longitude) axis. I contribute to PocketFMS, a GPS based moving
map and flight planner software and e.g. an ILS function is out of question:
a glide slope to some accuracy can't be assessed.
Incidentally, when I installed a Jabiru, instead of the old 582 on my model 3,
I saw such a lower pressure in the cockpit that I was forced to install a static
port. I am not sure why but it looks like the vacuum chamber I created under
the cowling was affecting the cockpit too.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as a PAX
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Altimeter Question |
Not really. The best air speed would result from a properly designed
piton- static device. The only disadvantage is one has to run two
lines to the panel. Anybody who still had the wings uncovered should
give this method strong consideration. Error on a pitot static is the
lowest of any compared to any other method.
Not as sensitive to yaw or pitch within reason.
Paul
===================
At 03:31 PM 9/25/2008, you wrote:
> > From: Pete Christensen [apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net]
> > When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get about a 200'
> error in altitude
> > reading compared to my GPS reading.
>
>Oops! First, yes Pete, the pressure inside the cockpit varies a lot.
>A static port going aft of the fuselage is best. Secondly, the GPS
>altitude reading is seldom accurate to 200 ft. If you think of the
>geometry of the GPS satellites; the angle between them and then
>their relatively low altitude (angle) in relation to you, you
>understand that the Y axis (altitude) is less accurate than the X,Z
>(latitude, longitude) axis. I contribute to PocketFMS, a GPS based
>moving map and flight planner software and e.g. an ILS function is
>out of question: a glide slope to some accuracy can't be assessed.
>Incidentally, when I installed a Jabiru, instead of the old 582 on
>my model 3, I saw such a lower pressure in the cockpit that I was
>forced to install a static port. I am not sure why but it looks like
>the vacuum chamber I created under the cowling was affecting the cockpit too.
>
>Cheers,
>Michel Verheughe
>Norway
>Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as a PAX
>
>
><pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
>href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
>
></b></font></pre>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Coolant tank paint |
Guy=2C OK=2C Thanks for the info. I took the old flat black off of the tan
k and it has been welded and soldered on to the point it would never look g
ood polished. I put flat black back on it.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> Date: Thu=2C 25 Sep 2008 08:39:58 -0700> To: kitfox-list@ma
tronics.com> From: bnn@nethere.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Coolant tank
> At 05:41 PM 9/24/2008=2C you wrote:> >Guy=2C I didn't want to spend that
much time. But=2C My buffing wheel > >could use a work out. Where can I ge
t Sterling gloss=2C what type of paint is it?> > Pat=2C> Really=2C any LP o
r urethane clear will do=2C but I've had > excellent results with Sterling
and it's easy to get in San Diego=2C > being as it's used heavily in the ya
chting industry.> > > Guy Buchanan> San Diego=2C CA> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Wa
========================> _
======================> > >
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Question |
[quote="peteohms"]When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get about a
200' error in altitude reading compared to my GPS reading. I suppose this is
common when the static pickup is inside the cabin. I set my altimeter to the
GPS reading and forget it. Any problems with this solution?
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
III SN1000
912
> [b]
Pete, Pete, Pete
Sec. 91.121 - Altimeter settings.
(a) Each person operating an aircraft shall maintain the cruising altitude or flight
level of that aircraft, as the case may be, by reference to an altimeter
that is set, when operating --
(1) Below 18,000 feet MSL, to --
(i) The current reported altimeter setting of a station along the route and within
100 nautical miles of the aircraft;
(ii) If there is no station within the area prescribed in paragraph (a)(1)(i) of
this section, the current reported altimeter setting of an appropriate available
station; or
(iii) In the case of an aircraft not equipped with a radio, the elevation of the
departure airport or an appropriate altimeter setting available before departure;
or
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6198#206198
Message 18
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| Subject: | Water temperature guage |
Hi all - my water temperature gauge is suddenly swinging full scale on a
cold engine.
Two things recently that could affect it:
1. I had the dash off to replace the lord mounts, so 1st thing to check
was open wires - nope.
2. On most recent flight the gauge went well into the red after taxi and
was erratic. Thinking "better check coolant level" I did, when cold, and it
was full to the top as well as a few inches in the overflow.
The gauge has a good ground, a good 12+vdc, and 6.87vdc on the sensor lead
on a cold engine and 60f day.
I guess what I need to know is: should 6.87v pin the needle(hard!) on full
scale? ie does anyone know what is the normal voltage range of the sensor,
as in - does 6.87vdc = 60f?
There are no manufacturer's markings on the gauge or sensor that I can find.
Thanks in advance for any info or where to look.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: KitFox 7 Elevator for sale |
The previous owner installed the Elevator with manual trim but decided to buy the
Elevator with Electric trim and never installed it. It is new with hardware.
--------
Dale
KitFox 7
Las Vegas, Nv
daleorth@embarqmail.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6208#206208
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| Subject: | Marvel Mystery Oil-100LL |
On Wed, September 24, 2008 10:58 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Did you notice the compression ratios of the cylinders??? 5/80 is down into
> turbine territory... without the turbine J
>
>
> Stoddard solvent and lard!! No thanks.
My sentiments exactly! Stoddard solvent smells like kerosene and used to be the
predominant dry cleaner's solvent.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit>
People have good intentions when it comes to taking care of their airplanes but
they
can be victimized by ridiculous claims for miracle concoctions. I can see no reason
for using a mix of motor oil, drean cleaning fluid and lard in your 4 stroke certified
aircraft engine that specifically does not approve fuel additives.
It would appear to me from reading the NTSB report that the poor engine was killed
by
detonation caused by a relatively high concentration of MMO.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Question |
Tom,
It'll soon be winter and I can keep the vents closed and have an accurate
altimeter. Never let it be said that I fly in violation of Sec. 91.121 -
Altimeter settings out in the middle of the desert SW.
Pete
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 5:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Altimeter Question
>
> [quote="peteohms"]When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get
> about a 200' error in altitude reading compared to my GPS reading. I
> suppose this is common when the static pickup is inside the cabin. I set
> my altimeter to the GPS reading and forget it. Any problems with this
> solution?
>
> Pete
> Hell Paso, TX
> III SN1000
> 912
>
>> [b]
>
>
> Pete, Pete, Pete
>
> Sec. 91.121 - Altimeter settings.
>
> (a) Each person operating an aircraft shall maintain the cruising altitude
> or flight level of that aircraft, as the case may be, by reference to an
> altimeter that is set, when operating --
>
> (1) Below 18,000 feet MSL, to --
>
> (i) The current reported altimeter setting of a station along the route
> and within 100 nautical miles of the aircraft;
>
> (ii) If there is no station within the area prescribed in paragraph
> (a)(1)(i) of this section, the current reported altimeter setting of an
> appropriate available station; or
>
> (iii) In the case of an aircraft not equipped with a radio, the elevation
> of the departure airport or an appropriate altimeter setting available
> before departure; or
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
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Message 22
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Any one interested there will be a swap meet at the Waterloo Regional Airport (CYKF)this
weekend, Saturday Sept 27 Gates open at 8:00 AM till 4:00PM. Bring your
stuff and a table or just a shopping list and some money. $2.00 entry fee
for buyers or vendors. Gate 20 on the south end of the field.
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6233#206233
Message 23
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| Subject: | Series 4 1200 project For Sale |
I will be putting my Series 4 1200 project up for sale. It will be viewable at
the RAA Swap meet this weekend and if still around it will be advertised shortly
after . I will promote it here first ... to the hard core Kitfox fans.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6236#206236
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