Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: CHT probe placement (fox5flyer)
2. 05:50 AM - Re: CHT probe placement (Lynn Matteson)
3. 07:52 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Marco Menezes)
4. 07:58 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (steve shinabery)
5. 08:23 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
6. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: model 7 Fabric at butt rib to fuselage question? (SUE MICHAELS)
7. 11:59 AM - Model 2 & 582 blue head (Stan Tew)
8. 02:56 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Marco Menezes)
9. 03:52 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (akflyer)
10. 04:07 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
11. 05:56 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (akflyer)
12. 06:19 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Guy Buchanan)
13. 06:38 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (patrick reilly)
14. 06:53 PM - Re: Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
15. 07:17 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (patrick reilly)
16. 08:07 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Just one comment, Lynn. KUDOs!
What you are doing is true experimenting and that is what these airplanes
are all about. Have you spoken to any of the Jab reps about what you're
doing? I'm sure they're aware of it and probably watching very closely.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
>
> When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time to
> make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the dreaded spark
> plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't like the idea of
> putting the probe under a head bolt as some have done, fearing the idea
> of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper terminal, so I followed another
> poster's idea and drilled and tapped a hole in the head between, and
> slightly below, the spark plug locations. Now I find that the temperature
> readings are quite a bit above the reported 10 degrees or so difference
> (from the spark plug locations) that I have read about for the head bolt
> locations. I have looked into this and have decided that the spark plug
> probes (mine anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment
> point...the point where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if
> you will, (and it is NOT the area that actually touches the
> head)...one-half inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow
> that goes past this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further
> insulated by having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even
> further from the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe
> this 1/2" of separation from the head is enough to place the "business
> end" of the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
> CHT's of an average of about 275 F, while I now see my CHT's read about
> 350-360 F, and up to about 385 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @ 80 F
> ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling down period
> after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My thermocouple attachment
> point...the business end...is now closer to the head, and tucked between
> the head and a fin instead of sticking up into the airflow, so I can
> accept the higher readings, especially when the engine is running so
> strong now and climbing better than I recall it doing before the engine
> breakdown. I might add that each flight sees lower CHT's as the engine
> breaks in.
> Any comments?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Thanks, Deke.
Talk about experimenting....I just added a second Odyssey PC 680
battery to try to isolate the ignition system while I and Electroair
try to solve some ignition-related gremlins, and until I order the
correct battery box, I just taped it to the console (orange tape, of
course), and wrote on the tape: "Chill out, Inspector, it's only
temporary!"
Regarding the placement of the t'couple probe....someone over in OZ
had already done this, using a hole that was already there (for no
apparent reason), and called the factory to see if it was ok to use
it for that purpose, and they said yes, that's what we used it
for...for a while. Now why they don't still use it is anybody's
guess. Sometimes I think they've got too many engineers working over
there and not enough real mechanics. I've tried to email Jabiru in
OZ, and got no reply...this was regarding my broken crank gear....I'm
sure lawyers monitor the phones, emails, maybe even the air they
breathe.
In the meantime, I'm dealing with some occasionally erratic readings
from the Grand Rapids EIS (not to be confused with the Electroair
Ignition System [EIS] ) in which the readings sometimes go to 5
digits for rpm, CHT, and EGT. If I push "next" then "previous" the
readings read correctly. I suspect that it's something to do with the
proximity of the ignition modules to the GR EIS wires, but that's
what I'm trying to sort out.
Also, in the meantime, I'm flying it and starting to learn to fly
almost over again after 8 weeks (today) of being grounded....for
instance, I learned just the other day that when you make a radio
announcement, the signal goes a lot further and can be heard by more
folks if the radio is actually turned on. : )
Fog's lifting...gotta go....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
On Sep 28, 2008, at 7:31 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> Just one comment, Lynn. KUDOs!
> What you are doing is true experimenting and that is what these
> airplanes are all about. Have you spoken to any of the Jab reps
> about what you're doing? I'm sure they're aware of it and probably
> watching very closely.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <jabiruengine-list@matronics.com>;
> <jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com>; <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 8:03 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
>
>
>>
>> When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was
>> time to make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid
>> the dreaded spark plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I
>> didn't like the idea of putting the probe under a head bolt as
>> some have done, fearing the idea of putting 24 lbs of torque on a
>> copper terminal, so I followed another poster's idea and drilled
>> and tapped a hole in the head between, and slightly below, the
>> spark plug locations. Now I find that the temperature readings
>> are quite a bit above the reported 10 degrees or so difference
>> (from the spark plug locations) that I have read about for the
>> head bolt locations. I have looked into this and have decided
>> that the spark plug probes (mine anyway) position the
>> thermocouple wire attachment point...the point where the actual
>> reading is made, the "business end" if you will, (and it is NOT
>> the area that actually touches the head)...one-half inch above
>> the head surface, and well into the airflow that goes past this
>> area. This spark plug thermocouple is further insulated by having
>> it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even further from the
>> cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe this 1/2"
>> of separation from the head is enough to place the "business end"
>> of the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to
>> see CHT's of an average of about 275 F, while I now see my CHT's
>> read about 350-360 F, and up to about 385 F in climb, at 1500'
>> MSL, @ 80 F ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute
>> settling down period after climbout will see the 350's I
>> mentioned. My thermocouple attachment point...the business
>> end...is now closer to the head, and tucked between the head and
>> a fin instead of sticking up into the airflow, so I can accept
>> the higher readings, especially when the engine is running so
>> strong now and climbing better than I recall it doing before the
>> engine breakdown. I might add that each flight sees lower CHT's
>> as the engine breaks in.
>> Any comments?
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster
>> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
Pat,
-
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but i
t looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems t
o use about a pint an hour.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward com
plete. There is a round-steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight tub
e.-The tank-looks as if-it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question i
s, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big
-of an oil reservoir tank?
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
> I used to have a Kitfox 3 project with 582 that I never did fix up
> like I thought I would. It had a plastic oil bottle that
> held probably 3 quarts. I ended up with two of those bottles and let
> only one go with the plane when I sold it.
> I just ran out to the garage and measured it and it is 7 3/4" X 5
> 3/4" X 2 3/4" I snapped a few pics also. It looks kind
> of dirty in the photo. I think it was the standard Kitfox 3 tank.
> Let me know if you are interested in it.
> Jim Chuk Kitfox 4 building Mn
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: patreilly43@hotmail.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:15:38 -0500
>
>
> Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall
> forward complete. There is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a
> plastic sight tube. The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon
> capacity. My question is, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you
> 582 drivers carrying that big of an oil reservoir tank?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
> *http://forums.matronics.c//www.matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/================ <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>*
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> See how Windows connects the people, information, and fun that are
> part/direct/01/' target='_new'>See Now
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>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
I have a 1992 KITFOX 2 ,,I all so have the same tank in my KF as this
one.works great..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2,,Home to the 2009 Great
Lakes Area Kitfox Fly In
Message 5
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is
probably every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off
= 1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but it
looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to
use about a pint an hour.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward
complete. There is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight
tube. The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is,
isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big of
an oil reservoir tank?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
D========================
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| Subject: | Re: model 7 Fabric at butt rib to fuselage question? |
Thanks for all the good ideas!
George
do not archive
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| Subject: | Model 2 & 582 blue head |
Jeff and others interested,
Yes the FAA asked for all my paperwork including the weight & balance. When I installed
the 582 blue head I re-weighed the aircraft and recalculated the w &
b and printed a new sheet. There was not even a ripple in the water about this.
The FAA has asked me to confirm the diagnosis of debris in the fuel inlet of the
carb. I did this yesterday and as I expected the engine ran quite well, thank
you. I had inserted a shutoff valve in the line to the front carb. In a very
short time after shutting off fuel to that cylinder the engine lost power but
continued to run, never stopping completely which is exactly what happened on
the day of the crash.
STAN 2
Message 8
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles ar
e black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables-more precisely and get back to you.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is proba
bly every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off =
1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
-
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
-
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but i
t looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems t
o use about a pint an hour.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward com
plete. There is a round-steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight tub
e.-The tank-looks as if-it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question i
s, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big
-of an oil reservoir tank?
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
[quote="matronics(at)bob.brennan."]A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate?
Sounds like a thick mix to me, or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds
a quart, and I fill it when it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?)
which is probably every third or fourth top-off of the main tank
(5 gals per top-off = 1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I, for
one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
[quote][b]
I think it depends on what kind of flying you are doing. Remember that the oil
pump mixes between 50:1 at WOT to about 100:1 at an idle. Depending on the cruise
RPM, prop load, throttle position etc, you may use more or less oil than
others, depending on your flying style hour for hour. At a strict 50:1 it would
be 1 quart for ever 12 gallons. I bet I burn about 1 quart for every 15 gallons
averaged out. This is with the pump set up just as instructed in the manual
with the marks lining up at idle.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6630#206630
Message 10
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Ok, getting empirical<g> (in the UK it was called "anally retentive")...
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I
should go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on my
1qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5
hours and I recall topping it up when it reached the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's a
"582-90"?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles are
black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables more precisely and get back to you.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is
probably every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off
= 1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but it
looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to
use about a pint an hour.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward
complete. There is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight
tube. The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is,
isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big of
an oil reservoir tank?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
582-90 is the mod 90 or the grey head, not the newer mod 99 blue head.
What RPM do you cruise at? I cruise around 57-5800 and figure a 5.5 gallon an
hour burn. On floats this gives me about a 75 mph cruise. I can bring it back
to 5600 and at 70 mph burn around 4.5 hr.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6657#206657
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
At 06:15 PM 9/27/2008, you wrote:
>The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is,
>isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that
>big of an oil reservoir tank?
Pat,
That's an awful lot of oil, which may not be a bad thing. If
you can live with the extra 9 pounds when full, and the location, I'd
use it. I have the 2 liter Nalgene bottle that Skystar supplied and
identical to what Jim pictured and it's theoretically good for about
5 hours endurance at my usual cruise of 4.7 gph fuel and ~0.7 pph
oil. The problem with a 2-stroke is that, generally speaking, you
have to carry oil for the entire trip wherever you go. When I go on
long cross-countries I'll carry as many as 24 pints of oil when I
leave. It would be nice to have your 1 1/2 gallon "range" in the
tank. I know it's semantics, to some extent, but there will be trips
you'll make without adding oil that I have to carry and pour my
little pint bottles.
By the way my burn numbers were calculated during long
duration cross countries. (~30 hr.) I find I use less oil (~0.5 pph)
putting around Ramona, because I spend a lot more time on the ground
at idle, percentage-wise.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 13
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Jim & Lucy=2C I'll take the bottle. Send it to Pat Reilly=2C 6910 Woodcrest
Pkwy=2C Rockford=2C IL 61109. Tell me how much I owe you and your address.
I'll send you a check. If I could have figured out your e-mail address I'd
havecontacted you off line.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL > Date: Sun=2C 28 Sep 2008 10:59:40 -0400> From: shinco@brig
ht.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Re
t.net>> > Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:> > I used to have a Kitfox 3 project wit
h 582 that I never did fix up > > like I thought I would. It had a plastic
oil bottle that> > held probably 3 quarts. I ended up with two of those bot
tles and let > > only one go with the plane when I sold it. > > I just ran
out to the garage and measured it and it is 7 3/4" X 5 > > 3/4" X 2 3/4" I
snapped a few pics also. It looks kind> > of dirty in the photo. I think it
was the standard Kitfox 3 tank. > > Let me know if you are interested in i
t. > > Jim Chuk Kitfox 4 building Mn> >> >> > -----------------------------
-------------------------------------------> >> > From: patreilly43@hotmail
.com> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Rese
rvoir> > Date: Sat=2C 27 Sep 2008 20:15:38 -0500> >> >> > Kitfoxers=2C I am
ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall > > forward complete. Ther
e is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a > > plastic sight tube. The ta
nk looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon > > capacity. My question is=2C isn't
that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you > > 582 drivers carrying that big of an
oil reservoir tank?> > > > Pat Reilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C
IL > > *http://forums.matronics.c//www.matronics.com/contribution" target
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/=============
=== <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>*> >> > <http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>> > --------------------------------
----------------------------------------> > See how Windows connects the pe
ople=2C information=2C and fun that are > > part/direct/01/' target='_new
'>See Now > > <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List>> > ---------
---------------------------------------------------------------> >> >> > --
----------------------------------------------------------------------> >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------>
>> >> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> > > I have a 1992 KITFOX
2 =2C=2CI all so have the same tank in my KF as this > one.works great..Ste
ve Shinabery N554KF KF2=2C=2CHome to the 2009 Great > Lakes Area Kitfox Fly
=======> > >
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
Hi Len - I cruise at about 5500 rpm and 75 mph, although it's very easy to
slip off that "plane" if I don't hold it trim. When the ASI goes to 65 mph
it goes into mush mode.
I find my Model 2 is *very* susceptible to thermals and often find myself
gaining or losing altitude depending on what's above or below me. Clouds,
fields, lakes, towns, sometime I think even pigeon sh*ts affect the trim.
Ok, I exaggerate a bit... But it's definitely a plane you have to fly *all*
the time!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: 28 September 2008 8:55 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Oil Reservoir
582-90 is the mod 90 or the grey head, not the newer mod 99 blue head.
What RPM do you cruise at? I cruise around 57-5800 and figure a 5.5 gallon
an hour burn. On floats this gives me about a 75 mph cruise. I can bring
it back to 5600 and at 70 mph burn around 4.5 hr.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
95% complete
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6657#206657
Message 15
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Guy=2C Thanks for the advice. I will use the lighter plastic bottle. I can'
t envision taking a trip that would use that much oil and I don't mind carr
ying a qt or so to add. That said=2C converting from 912 to 582=2C if I run
into a weight and balance problem of too light in the nose the additional
oil capacity might be the answer=2C but I hope not.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
nn@nethere.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil ReservoirAt 06:15 PM 9/27/2
008=2C you wrote:
The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is=2C isn'
t that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big of an o
il reservoir tank?Pat=2C That's an awful lot of oil=2C which may not
be a bad thing. If you can live with the extra 9 pounds when full=2C and t
he location=2C I'd use it. I have the 2 liter Nalgene bottle that Skystar s
upplied and identical to what Jim pictured and it's theoretically good for
about 5 hours endurance at my usual cruise of 4.7 gph fuel and ~0.7 pph oil
. The problem with a 2-stroke is that=2C generally speaking=2C you have to
carry oil for the entire trip wherever you go. When I go on long cross-coun
tries I'll carry as many as 24 pints of oil when I leave. It would be nice
to have your 1 1/2 gallon "range" in the tank. I know it's semantics=2C to
some extent=2C but there will be trips you'll make without adding oil that
I have to carry and pour my little pint bottles. By the way my burn
numbers were calculated during long duration cross countries. (~30 hr.) I f
ind I use less oil (~0.5 pph) putting around Ramona=2C because I spend a lo
t more time on the ground at idle=2C percentage-wise.
Guy BuchananSan Diego=2C CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done=2C thanks m
ostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Oil Reservoir |
On Sun, September 28, 2008 7:51 am, Marco Menezes wrote:
> My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but it
looks to
> be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to use about a
pint an
> hour.
At 4 gal/hr fuel usage a pint an hour would be 32:1 mix. About what one would estimate.
I would size the oil reservoir so that you could go on a typical long trip where
you
would need to buy fuel to return without having to carry additional oil or buy
it. So
let's say for example you go on a trip someplace that is a half day away of about
6
hours and before returning you top off your fuel tanks. Total flight time of 12
hours
would use around 45 to 48 gallons of fuel and that would require 1.5 gallons of
oil.
If that is not your typical long range usage model, then size it accordingly. Another
way would be to start with the fuel capacity. Say it is 15 gallons. Then if you
allow
for 45 minutes reserve, at 4 gal per hour that is 3 gallons reserve and you have
a net
usable of 12 gallons or 3 hours. Topping off the fuel (without adding engine oil)
and
returning home would use another 12 gallons. Total fuel burn of 24 gallons and
the oil
tank would need to have capacity to mix 24 gallons plus 3 reserve gallons or 27
total
fuel. Assuming a 32:1 mix then the oil tank would need to have a 6-3/4 pint capacity.
So if you size the oil tank much smaller than a gallon, then you'll probably need
to
carry spare oil some of the time.
Make sense?
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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