Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:02 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Altimeter Question (Noel Loveys)
3. 06:00 AM - Re: Water temperature guage (Noel Loveys)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Water temperature guageWater temperature guage (Perkins, Mike)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Marco Menezes)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Water temperature guage (Bob Brennan)
8. 08:33 AM - Re: Water temperature guage (Bob Brennan)
9. 03:12 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Marco Menezes)
10. 03:24 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (patrick reilly)
11. 03:45 PM - 2-stroke oil (Pat Reilly)
12. 03:49 PM - Re: 582 Oil Reservoir (Bob Brennan)
13. 03:50 PM - Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head (Pat Reilly)
14. 05:28 PM - Re: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head (fox5flyer)
15. 05:28 PM - 2-stroke oil (fox5flyer)
16. 05:42 PM - Gearbox wear (corbob13)
17. 08:04 PM - Re: Gearbox wear (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
18. 08:59 PM - Re: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head (patrick reilly)
19. 11:11 PM - Re: Gearbox wear (Guy Buchanan)
20. 11:33 PM - Re: CHT probe placement (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
> Make sense?
It would make sense at 4 gal/hr and a 32:1 mix, but the model 2 (and 3) with
a 582 is rated at a gas-guzzling 3.7 gph at max cruise of 85 and a more
realistic 2.1 gph at 65; my experience being about 2.5 at 75. And the oil
pump has to be set to deliver a ratio of between 50:1 to 70:1, or it would
be out of spec.
That puts your numbers below Paul at a factor of 3 to 4 times higher than
actual consumption. I would not use that to determine the size of the
plastic tank and I certainly wouldn't rely on a large tank to influence your
C of G Pat - implying that you would go tail-heavy as you run low on oil!
Just my humble and well-intentioned opinion...
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Franz,
P.E.
Sent: 28 September 2008 11:07 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, September 28, 2008 7:51 am, Marco Menezes wrote:
> My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but
it looks to
> be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to use
about a pint an
> hour.
At 4 gal/hr fuel usage a pint an hour would be 32:1 mix. About what one
would estimate.
I would size the oil reservoir so that you could go on a typical long trip
where you
would need to buy fuel to return without having to carry additional oil or
buy it. So
let's say for example you go on a trip someplace that is a half day away of
about 6
hours and before returning you top off your fuel tanks. Total flight time of
12 hours
would use around 45 to 48 gallons of fuel and that would require 1.5 gallons
of oil.
If that is not your typical long range usage model, then size it
accordingly. Another
way would be to start with the fuel capacity. Say it is 15 gallons. Then if
you allow
for 45 minutes reserve, at 4 gal per hour that is 3 gallons reserve and you
have a net
usable of 12 gallons or 3 hours. Topping off the fuel (without adding engine
oil) and
returning home would use another 12 gallons. Total fuel burn of 24 gallons
and the oil
tank would need to have capacity to mix 24 gallons plus 3 reserve gallons or
27 total
fuel. Assuming a 32:1 mix then the oil tank would need to have a 6-3/4 pint
capacity.
So if you size the oil tank much smaller than a gallon, then you'll probably
need to
carry spare oil some of the time.
Make sense?
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 2
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| Subject: | Altimeter Question |
I live at sea level + 20 ft. My GPS will show an altitude here of anywhere
from -2 to +20 meters. Check the barometric pressure at your closest
airport or believe it or not high school and use the to set your altimeter.
I say high school because they often have true mercury barometers in the
physics lab.
If you are in the area of a GPS correction service and subscribe to it then
you can depend on the altitude reading.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete
Christensen
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Altimeter Question
When I fly my Kitfox III with the vents open, I get about a 200' error in
altitude reading compared to my GPS reading. I suppose this is common when
the static pickup is inside the cabin. I set my altimeter to the GPS
reading and forget it. Any problems with this solution?
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
III SN1000
912
Message 3
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| Subject: | Water temperature guage |
Those sensors typically use a coil of nickel alloy to sense temperature.
Resistance increases with temperature. If the seal on the probe is leaking
fluid into the coil it will go off scale. Check the probe by checking its
resistance with a good VOM while immersing it into a container of cold
water... As you heat the water the resistance should increase.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Hi all - my water temperature gauge is suddenly swinging full scale on a
cold engine.
Two things recently that could affect it:
1. I had the dash off to replace the lord mounts, so 1st thing to check
was open wires - nope.
2. On most recent flight the gauge went well into the red after taxi and
was erratic. Thinking "better check coolant level" I did, when cold, and it
was full to the top as well as a few inches in the overflow.
The gauge has a good ground, a good 12+vdc, and 6.87vdc on the sensor lead
on a cold engine and 60f day.
I guess what I need to know is: should 6.87v pin the needle(hard!) on full
scale? ie does anyone know what is the normal voltage range of the sensor,
as in - does 6.87vdc = 60f?
There are no manufacturer's markings on the gauge or sensor that I can find.
Thanks in advance for any info or where to look.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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| Subject: | Re: Water temperature guageWater temperature guage |
Bob, I'm out of town until Thursday evening. I can get back to you
Friday with the numbers, but it might be easier to discuss details via
phone. Here's my email address if you want to give me your number:
flybyewire@gmail.com. - Mike
Message 5
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
I don't know that mine's set up any differently. I adjusted it per the book
. At 140 hrs, it runs great and the plugs look like just-they're supposed
to. I'm interested in how you get a 582 to average a 2.5 g/hr fuel burn. N
ow that's atypical.
-
A 582-90 is the "gray head." The "blue head" is a 582-99.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Ok, getting empirical<g> (in the UK-it was called "anally retentive")...
-
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
-
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I shou
ld go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on-my 1
qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5 hour
s and I recall topping it up-when it reached-the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
-
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's
a "582-90"?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles ar
e black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables-more precisely and get back to you.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is proba
bly every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off =
1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
-
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
-
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but i
t looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems t
o use about a pint an hour.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward com
plete. There is a round-steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight tub
e.-The tank-looks as if-it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question i
s, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big
-of an oil reservoir tank?
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
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Message 6
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
It certainly sounds atypical from all the posts I have seen here, but it is
spot on to what it says in the Owners Manual.
Here's some facts:
The engine was purchased in 1989 so I assume that is a "gray head"
It went for about 600 hours before a complete rebuild
It is now a little over 200 hours since the rebuild
I have the optional ground-adjustable GSC props and I think the "B"
reduction gearbox
My weight-and-balance shows an empty weight of 525 lbs
With me and typical fuel = 732 lbs
When I am solo I rarely go WOT, 6000 rpm has more than enough power, max rpm
is posted as 6300
I typically cruise at 5000-5500, descend at 4000, idle at 3000
I *never* use flaperons for trim, I have a horiz stab tab that works great.
I know one time I did a short-field takeoff and cruised for a while at 1
notch of flaps, I had a *lot* of trouble maintaining cruise and was no doubt
burning a lot. Personally I think my model 2 is light, fairly clean (no
added fairings no), and trim. Now if only I could say the same for myself!
Personally I was a bit worried I was running a bit lean, especially with
water temps high recently. But since the burn rate is exactly on spec and
the temp gauge/sensor has actually failed I am not as worried.
Spot anything there that might make the difference?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I don't know that mine's set up any differently. I adjusted it per the book.
At 140 hrs, it runs great and the plugs look like just they're supposed to.
I'm interested in how you get a 582 to average a 2.5 g/hr fuel burn. Now
that's atypical.
A 582-90 is the "gray head." The "blue head" is a 582-99.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Ok, getting empirical<g> (in the UK it was called "anally retentive")...
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I
should go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on my
1qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5
hours and I recall topping it up when it reached the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's a
"582-90"?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles are
black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables more precisely and get back to you.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is
probably every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off
= 1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but it
looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to
use about a pint an hour.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward
complete. There is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight
tube. The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is,
isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big of
an oil reservoir tank?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Water temperature guage |
Excellent suggestion Noel, I will try that. I think I saw somewhere that the
range on those sensors is 20-200 ohms, but a decent data sheet on either the
Westach gauge or the sensor could speed things up considerably.
Mike Perkins has promised to make some measurements on his similar setup
this week and I will try to contact Westach as well.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 29 September 2008 8:59 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Those sensors typically use a coil of nickel alloy to sense temperature.
Resistance increases with temperature. If the seal on the probe is leaking
fluid into the coil it will go off scale. Check the probe by checking its
resistance with a good VOM while immersing it into a container of cold
water... As you heat the water the resistance should increase.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Hi all - my water temperature gauge is suddenly swinging full scale on a
cold engine.
Two things recently that could affect it:
1. I had the dash off to replace the lord mounts, so 1st thing to check
was open wires - nope.
2. On most recent flight the gauge went well into the red after taxi and
was erratic. Thinking "better check coolant level" I did, when cold, and it
was full to the top as well as a few inches in the overflow.
The gauge has a good ground, a good 12+vdc, and 6.87vdc on the sensor lead
on a cold engine and 60f day.
I guess what I need to know is: should 6.87v pin the needle(hard!) on full
scale? ie does anyone know what is the normal voltage range of the sensor,
as in - does 6.87vdc = 60f?
There are no manufacturer's markings on the gauge or sensor that I can find.
Thanks in advance for any info or where to look.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Water temperature guage |
>From Westach (*really* fast reply!):
You need to check with an Ohm meter ~ disconnect the sender from the gauge ~
here are the resistance values for the temp sender:
50 deg. F = 5,970 ohms
60 deg. F = 4,600 ohms
70 deg. F = 3570 ohms
80 deg. F = 2,780 ohms
90 deg. F = 2, 190ohms
100 deg. F = 1740 ohms
210 deg. F = 210 ohms ~ boiling water
212 deg. F = 212 ohms
Also check to make sure you have a good ground and that it didn't become
disconnected ( this cause gauges to go full scalle)
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: 29 September 2008 10:59 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Excellent suggestion Noel, I will try that. I think I saw somewhere that the
range on those sensors is 20-200 ohms, but a decent data sheet on either the
Westach gauge or the sensor could speed things up considerably.
Mike Perkins has promised to make some measurements on his similar setup
this week and I will try to contact Westach as well.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 29 September 2008 8:59 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Those sensors typically use a coil of nickel alloy to sense temperature.
Resistance increases with temperature. If the seal on the probe is leaking
fluid into the coil it will go off scale. Check the probe by checking its
resistance with a good VOM while immersing it into a container of cold
water... As you heat the water the resistance should increase.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Water temperature guage
Hi all - my water temperature gauge is suddenly swinging full scale on a
cold engine.
Two things recently that could affect it:
1. I had the dash off to replace the lord mounts, so 1st thing to check
was open wires - nope.
2. On most recent flight the gauge went well into the red after taxi and
was erratic. Thinking "better check coolant level" I did, when cold, and it
was full to the top as well as a few inches in the overflow.
The gauge has a good ground, a good 12+vdc, and 6.87vdc on the sensor lead
on a cold engine and 60f day.
I guess what I need to know is: should 6.87v pin the needle(hard!) on full
scale? ie does anyone know what is the normal voltage range of the sensor,
as in - does 6.87vdc = 60f?
There are no manufacturer's markings on the gauge or sensor that I can find.
Thanks in advance for any info or where to look.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
If the cylinder head is natural metal colored (gray) it's the model 90. If
the head is blue it's the 99.
-
I don't have elevator trim so I use the flaperons instead. I realize this m
akes an already draggy-airplane draggier still but it's simple and I have
no complaints about the flight characteristics or engine performance other
than the relatively high fuel consumption (and low TBO) which is typical o
f two strokes. Someday I might install a trim tab if it will save fuel at c
ruise.
-
WOT my 582-yields about 5800 rpm on the same prop you're swinging, so you
r'e pitched a little finer. My empty wt is 535, with me and typical fuel (1
0 gal), TOW is about 750. Climbs out at 1000-1100 fpm (WOT) with egt's at 1
050-1100 degrees.
-
What are your egt's running? How do your plugs look?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
-
-
-
-
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
It certainly sounds atypical from all the posts I have seen here, but it is
spot on to what it says in the Owners Manual.
-
Here's some facts:
The engine was purchased in 1989 so I assume that is a "gray head"
It went for about 600 hours before a complete rebuild
It is now a little over 200 hours since the rebuild
I have the optional ground-adjustable GSC props and I think the "B" reducti
on gearbox
My weight-and-balance shows an empty weight of 525 lbs
With me and-typical fuel = 732 lbs
When I am solo I rarely go WOT, 6000 rpm has more than enough power, max rp
m is posted as 6300
I typically cruise at 5000-5500, descend at 4000, idle at 3000
-
I *never* use flaperons for trim, I have a horiz stab tab that works great.
I know one time I did a short-field takeoff and cruised for a while at 1 n
otch of flaps, I had a *lot* of trouble maintaining cruise and was no doubt
burning a lot. Personally I think my model 2 is light, fairly clean (no ad
ded fairings no),-and trim. Now if only I could say the same for myself!
-
Personally I was a bit worried I was running a bit lean, especially with wa
ter temps high recently. But since the burn rate is exactly on spec and the
temp gauge/sensor has actually failed I am not as worried.
-
Spot anything there that might make the difference?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I don't know that mine's set up any differently. I adjusted it per the book
. At 140 hrs, it runs great and the plugs look like just-they're supposed
to. I'm interested in how you get a 582 to average a 2.5 g/hr fuel burn. N
ow that's atypical.
-
A 582-90 is the "gray head." The "blue head" is a 582-99.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Ok, getting empirical<g> (in the UK-it was called "anally retentive")...
-
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
-
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I shou
ld go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on-my 1
qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5 hour
s and I recall topping it up-when it reached-the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
-
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's
a "582-90"?
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles ar
e black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables-more precisely and get back to you.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is proba
bly every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off =
1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
-
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
-
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa--
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
-
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but i
t looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems t
o use about a pint an hour.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward com
plete. There is a round-steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight tub
e.-The tank-looks as if-it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question i
s, isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big
-of an oil reservoir tank?
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
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Message 10
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
Bob=2C Thanks for the advice. I guess I could go tail heavy if I let the le
vel get low and should use a perment fix if my weight and balance need it.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: matronics@bob.brennan.name> To: kitfox-list@matronics
.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir> Date: Mon=2C 29 Sep 2008
ics@bob.brennan.name>> > > Make sense?> > It would make sense at 4 gal/hr a
nd a 32:1 mix=2C but the model 2 (and 3) with> a 582 is rated at a gas-guzz
ling 3.7 gph at max cruise of 85 and a more> realistic 2.1 gph at 65=3B my
experience being about 2.5 at 75. And the oil> pump has to be set to delive
r a ratio of between 50:1 to 70:1=2C or it would> be out of spec.> > That p
uts your numbers below Paul at a factor of 3 to 4 times higher than> actual
consumption. I would not use that to determine the size of the> plastic ta
nk and I certainly wouldn't rely on a large tank to influence your> C of G
Pat - implying that you would go tail-heavy as you run low on oil!> > Just
my humble and well-intentioned opinion...> > Bob Brennan - N717GB> 1991 UK
Model 2 ELSA Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> Wrightsville Pa > > -----
Original Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailt
o:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Franz=2C> P.
E.> Sent: 28 September 2008 11:07 pm> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subjec
"Paul A. Franz=2C P.E."> <paul@eucleides.com>> > > On Sun=2C September 28
=2C 2008 7:51 am=2C Marco Menezes wrote:> > > My Model 2 came with a plast
ic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but> it looks to> > be well under
1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to use> about a pint an>
> hour.> > At 4 gal/hr fuel usage a pint an hour would be 32:1 mix. About w
hat one> would estimate.> > I would size the oil reservoir so that you coul
d go on a typical long trip> where you> would need to buy fuel to return wi
thout having to carry additional oil or> buy it. So> let's say for example
you go on a trip someplace that is a half day away of> about 6> hours and b
efore returning you top off your fuel tanks. Total flight time of> 12 hours
> would use around 45 to 48 gallons of fuel and that would require 1.5 gall
ons> of oil.> If that is not your typical long range usage model=2C then si
ze it> accordingly. Another> way would be to start with the fuel capacity.
Say it is 15 gallons. Then if> you allow> for 45 minutes reserve=2C at 4 ga
l per hour that is 3 gallons reserve and you> have a net> usable of 12 gall
ons or 3 hours. Topping off the fuel (without adding engine> oil) and> retu
rning home would use another 12 gallons. Total fuel burn of 24 gallons> and
the oil> tank would need to have capacity to mix 24 gallons plus 3 reserve
gallons or> 27 total> fuel. Assuming a 32:1 mix then the oil tank would ne
ed to have a 6-3/4 pint> capacity.> > So if you size the oil tank much smal
ler than a gallon=2C then you'll probably> need to> carry spare oil some of
the time.> > Make sense?> > -- > Paul A. Franz=2C P.E.> PAF Consulting Eng
> > >
Message 11
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Kitfoxers, I know the archives are full of opinoins on oils. The 582
grey head I purchased used was sold to me with 100 hrs as time on it. I
pulled the exhaust off, looked in the ports and can't believe the cross
hatch pattern in the bore. To me it looks as if the engine was never
even broken in. The previous owner was in California anfd said he used
AV2 oil. Over the last 30 years I have used AMS Oil in every type of 2
stroke engine application you can name. I swear by it. (Dave I know that
the petro based oils give better corrosion resistance in humid
conditions and I am a little afraid of the synthetic in for my plane as
I know my hanger is not heated and condensationis a big problem. Now,
after looking at my pristene bores after 100 hrs with AV2 I think I
would be remiss not to use AV2. What do you guys think of AV2?
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 12
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| Subject: | 582 Oil Reservoir |
The cylinder head is gray, so it's a model 90. I believe the "blue head"
didn't come out until 1991-92 and mine was flying by then.
Hard to believe that using flaperons for trim would increase drag that much,
although I know as soon as I pull on the flap lever the nose tips down a
*lot* (the difference between seeing the runway and flying blind) and I have
to add power. I can also reset the trim tab for neutral stick - only with
full flap does it not trim out but at that setting it's like having air
brakes.
How much flap do you need to add for trim? How does it fly with no "flaps" -
nose up or nose down? Maybe it's basically tail-heavy and you need to add
flap (ie drag) to fly level? As you add speed the nose tends to pitch up, so
you add flap(drag) to counteract? Sorry so many questions but I have never
used the flaps for trim so don't know. The PFA (oversight for UK KF builds)
issues a build document that basically says using flaps for trim is bad, and
describes the elevator trim installation instead.
I don't have EGT gauges but should probably look into that, I feel left out.
I changed the plugs and wires not too long ago and haven't checked since,
should be about due. I had to change them for a different type because the
plug wires had a tendency to get loose. I will inspect the plugs after
fixing the water temp gauge and reserve warning sensor light problems are
fixed. What's the ratio on these things - 15 minutes of repair per hour
used? ;-) Almost as bad as a chainsaw!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 6:11 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
If the cylinder head is natural metal colored (gray) it's the model 90. If
the head is blue it's the 99.
I don't have elevator trim so I use the flaperons instead. I realize this
makes an already draggy airplane draggier still but it's simple and I have
no complaints about the flight characteristics or engine performance other
than the relatively high fuel consumption (and low TBO) which is typical of
two strokes. Someday I might install a trim tab if it will save fuel at
cruise.
WOT my 582 yields about 5800 rpm on the same prop you're swinging, so your'e
pitched a little finer. My empty wt is 535, with me and typical fuel (10
gal), TOW is about 750. Climbs out at 1000-1100 fpm (WOT) with egt's at
1050-1100 degrees.
What are your egt's running? How do your plugs look?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
It certainly sounds atypical from all the posts I have seen here, but it is
spot on to what it says in the Owners Manual.
Here's some facts:
The engine was purchased in 1989 so I assume that is a "gray head"
It went for about 600 hours before a complete rebuild
It is now a little over 200 hours since the rebuild
I have the optional ground-adjustable GSC props and I think the "B"
reduction gearbox
My weight-and-balance shows an empty weight of 525 lbs
With me and typical fuel = 732 lbs
When I am solo I rarely go WOT, 6000 rpm has more than enough power, max rpm
is posted as 6300
I typically cruise at 5000-5500, descend at 4000, idle at 3000
I *never* use flaperons for trim, I have a horiz stab tab that works great.
I know one time I did a short-field takeoff and cruised for a while at 1
notch of flaps, I had a *lot* of trouble maintaining cruise and was no doubt
burning a lot. Personally I think my model 2 is light, fairly clean (no
added fairings no), and trim. Now if only I could say the same for myself!
Personally I was a bit worried I was running a bit lean, especially with
water temps high recently. But since the burn rate is exactly on spec and
the temp gauge/sensor has actually failed I am not as worried.
Spot anything there that might make the difference?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 29 September 2008 9:57 am
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
I don't know that mine's set up any differently. I adjusted it per the book.
At 140 hrs, it runs great and the plugs look like just they're supposed to.
I'm interested in how you get a 582 to average a 2.5 g/hr fuel burn. Now
that's atypical.
A 582-90 is the "gray head." The "blue head" is a 582-99.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Ok, getting empirical<g> (in the UK it was called "anally retentive")...
According to my operators manual the Model II with a 582LC gets 2.1 gph at
65 mph cruise, and 3.7 at 85. I recon I burn about 2.5/hr at my usual 75mph
which is in line with the specs but I should verify that.
The "Care and Feeding of Your Rotax" manual says the injection pump should
deliver between 50:1 and 70:1; which at 2.5 gph (10 quarts/hr) means I
should go between 5 hours (50 qts gas to 1 qt oil) and 7 hours (70:1) on my
1qt reservoir bottle-full. My recent Airworthiness Cert test time was 5
hours and I recall topping it up when it reached the half-way mark twice in
6 hours, so that's 60:1, right on the money.
So that sounds about right on my setup - what's different on yours? What's a
"582-90"?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 5:56 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Nothing at all empirical about this Bob. I burn "about" 4.5 g/hr in my 582.
After a flight lasting "about" an hour, it seems to take "about" 1/2 of a
quart to top off the oil tank. Hard to tell exactly as those oil bottles are
black and opaque. Next time I fly I'll try to remember to quantify those
variables more precisely and get back to you.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sun, 9/28/08, Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name> wrote:
From: Bob Brennan <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
A pint an hour Marco?! At what gal/hr rate? Sounds like a thick mix to me,
or is mine mixing too thin? My container holds a quart, and I fill it when
it gets 1/2 empty (or is that 1/2 full? optimist/pessimist?) which is
probably every third or fourth top-off of the main tank (5 gals per top-off
= 1 20L gerry can). I get 2 fills out of a quart of oil.
Sounds like another subject that needs some empirical measurements, and I,
for one, shouldn't take for granted(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 28 September 2008 10:51 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Pat,
My Model 2 came with a plastic tank. I haven't measured it's capacity but it
looks to be well under 1 gal. I'd guess maybe 1/2 gal. The engine seems to
use about a pint an hour.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Sat, 9/27/08, Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Pat Reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Oil Reservoir
Kitfoxers, I am ready to mount my 582 that I purchased firewall forward
complete. There is a round steel oil reservoir tank with a plastic sight
tube. The tank looks as if it has a 1 1/2 gallon capacity. My question is,
isn't that an awlfull lot of oil. Are you 582 drivers carrying that big of
an oil reservoir tank?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head |
Kitfoxers, Should I change out the reed valves and seals on my grey head
while I'm rebuilding the plane. And can I do it with the engine in the
plane?
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 582 uses a rotary valve. No reeds.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head
Kitfoxers, Should I change out the reed valves and seals on my grey
head while I'm rebuilding the plane. And can I do it with the engine in
the plane?
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 15
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Pat, the AV2 might be good stuff, but don't be too eager to use the
cross hatching as an indicator of the oil quality. I used Pennzoil
premium air cooled oil and mine looked the same after 400 hours.
Generally the rings wear much faster than the bore.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Reilly
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:45 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: 2-stroke oil
Kitfoxers, I know the archives are full of opinoins on oils. The 582
grey head I purchased used was sold to me with 100 hrs as time on it. I
pulled the exhaust off, looked in the ports and can't believe the cross
hatch pattern in the bore. To me it looks as if the engine was never
even broken in. The previous owner was in California anfd said he used
AV2 oil. Over the last 30 years I have used AMS Oil in every type of 2
stroke engine application you can name. I swear by it. (Dave I know that
the petro based oils give better corrosion resistance in humid
conditions and I am a little afraid of the synthetic in for my plane as
I know my hanger is not heated and condensationis a big problem. Now,
after looking at my pristene bores after 100 hrs with AV2 I think I
would be remiss not to use AV2. What do you guys think of AV2?
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 16
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Guys (especially Dave),
My plane's in for annual and my A&P is hesitating to sing the book because of an
issue with the gearbox. When he drained the lube he noticed a lot of very fine
metal particles in it. He's also worried about the amount of backlash in
the gears. I thought the backlash was a little much but since I've only got
a few hours on my engine from an overhaul I've ignored it. He compared the amount
of backlash to other planes on the field with similar setups and found the
others to have little to no backlash in the gear sets.
I spoke to LEAF, who did the overhaul, and they said it was normal, both the metal
and the backlash. I asked at what level the backlash should be a concern,
but they said there was no limit.
What kind of experiences have other had with their gearboxes? Do you see any amount
of metal particles in the gear oil? How about backlash? I have a 582 model
90 with a "B" box.
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6841#206841
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox wear |
On Mon, September 29, 2008 5:42 pm, corbob13 wrote:
>
> Guys (especially Dave),
> My plane's in for annual and my A&P is hesitating to sing the book because of
an issue
> with the gearbox. When he drained the lube he noticed a lot of very fine metal
> particles in it. He's also worried about the amount of backlash in the gears.
I
> thought the backlash was a little much but since I've only got a few hours on
my
> engine from an overhaul I've ignored it. He compared the amount of backlash
to other
> planes on the field with similar setups and found the others to have little to
no
> backlash in the gear sets.
>
> I spoke to LEAF, who did the overhaul, and they said it was normal, both the
metal and
> the backlash. I asked at what level the backlash should be a concern, but they
said
> there was no limit.
Visible metal would sure concern me. Here's a suggestion. Phone
Green Sky Adventures, Inc. of North Central Florida
Toll free 888 887-5625 Cell 352 318-5625 or Email gsastaff@orwell.net
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 18
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| Subject: | Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head |
Deke=2C Ooops=2C I haven't had it apart yet=2C but you are right. I miss sp
oke. All of the motorcycles I have owned had a reed valve. Entrenched conce
pts take time to change.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: fox5flyer@idealwifi.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Re: Kitf
ox-List: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue headDate: Mon=2C 29 Sep 2008 20:27:0
7 -0400
Correct me if I'm wrong=2C but the 582 uses a rotary valve. No reeds.
Deke MorisseMikado MichiganS5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT"The aim of an argument or
discussion should not be victory=2C but progress."- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Reilly
Sent: Monday=2C September 29=2C 2008 6:49 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Grey head 582 upgrade to blue head
Kitfoxers=2C Should I change out the reed valves and seals on my grey head
while I'm rebuilding the plane. And can I do it with the engine in the pla
ne?
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Gearbox wear |
At 05:42 PM 9/29/2008, you wrote:
>What kind of experiences have other had with their gearboxes? Do
>you see any amount of metal particles in the gear oil? How about
>backlash? I have a 582 model 90 with a "B" box.
Cory,
Backlash and metal in the oil go together. That's a bad
sign. You may be chewing your gears. I'd pull it apart since it's
almost trivial to do so. I notice, however, that the B has a spring
actuated dog system between the drive gear and prop hub, so I can
understand LEAFs telling you that metal particulate was normal. It
may be that it's the dog that's worn and causing the backlash, and
not the gear, or the spring has failed or is otherwise not providing
sufficient pressure.
How many hours total on the gearbox? I doubt LEAF did
anything at all to the gearbox during the rebuild, so you're probably
operating on the original time.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: CHT probe placement |
Lynn
I have my CHT probe directly under the Spark Plug but I don't remove the
plug gasket so it is sandwiched under the gasket directly on the head.
This is the way most of the Aussies have their CHT probes set up. I never
have any signs of leak either.
My CHT's read as we discussed earlier 275 - 295 Cruise and now as it is
getting warmer here I am seeing up to 330 in climb.
I recently modified my lower cowl again to get more air out.
I will get some comments from the factory about t=your findings
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
28/09/2008 09:43 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
jabiruengine-list@matronics.com, jabiruengines@yahoogroups.com,
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cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: CHT probe placement
When I recently rebuilt my Jabiru 2200 engine, I decided it was time
to make the CHT probe move to a better location, and avoid the
dreaded spark plug gasket removal and replacement problem. I didn't
like the idea of putting the probe under a head bolt as some have
done, fearing the idea of putting 24 lbs of torque on a copper
terminal, so I followed another poster's idea and drilled and tapped
a hole in the head between, and slightly below, the spark plug
locations. Now I find that the temperature readings are quite a bit
above the reported 10 degrees or so difference (from the spark plug
locations) that I have read about for the head bolt locations. I have
looked into this and have decided that the spark plug probes (mine
anyway) position the thermocouple wire attachment point...the point
where the actual reading is made, the "business end" if you will,
(and it is NOT the area that actually touches the head)...one-half
inch above the head surface, and well into the airflow that goes past
this area. This spark plug thermocouple is further insulated by
having it *above* the spark plug gasket, making it even further from
the cylinder head, albeit by a very small amount. I believe this 1/2"
of separation from the head is enough to place the "business end" of
the t'couple in the relatively cool air passing by. I used to see
CHT's of an average of about 275=B0 F, while I now see my CHT's read
about 350-360=B0 F, and up to about 385=B0 F in climb, at 1500' MSL, @
80=B0 F ambient. Straight and level flight after a 5 minute settling
down period after climbout will see the 350's I mentioned. My
thermocouple attachment point...the business end...is now closer to
the head, and tucked between the head and a fin instead of sticking
up into the airflow, so I can accept the higher readings, especially
when the engine is running so strong now and climbing better than I
recall it doing before the engine breakdown. I might add that each
flight sees lower CHT's as the engine breaks in.
Any comments?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are go.
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