Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Biennial Flight ReviewBiennial Flight Review (Catz631@AOL.COM)
2. 04:53 AM - Re: Kreem chunks problem (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
3. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Kreem chunks problem (Lynn Matteson)
4. 08:16 AM - Re: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit (Noel Loveys)
5. 08:39 AM - Re: Fuel drain (Noel Loveys)
6. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Kreem chunks problem (Lowell Fitt)
7. 10:03 AM - Re: Fuel drain (Lynn Matteson)
8. 10:26 AM - Throttle springs (Jim Feldmann)
9. 10:40 AM - Re: Mr Funnel for MoGas not airport 100LL (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
10. 11:36 AM - Re: Throttle springs (floran higgins)
11. 11:49 AM - Re: Throttle springs (Lowell Fitt)
12. 12:28 PM - Leading edge (Ed Gray)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Throttle springs (Brian Morissette)
14. 01:56 PM - Re: Another Throttle springs problem (Larry Huntley)
15. 02:08 PM - test (Larry Huntley)
16. 02:53 PM - Re: Fuel drain (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
17. 03:01 PM - Re: Leading edge (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
18. 03:31 PM - Re: Throttle springs (Jim Feldmann)
19. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: Throttle springs (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
20. 05:11 PM - Re: Leading edge (Guy Buchanan)
21. 05:47 PM - Re: Throttle springs (Jim Feldmann)
22. 05:48 PM - Re: Leading edge (Lowell Fitt)
23. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: Throttle springs (Lynn Matteson)
24. 06:32 PM - Re: Leading edge (Michael Gibbs)
25. 07:12 PM - Re: Leading edge (Dee Young)
26. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Throttle springs (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Biennial Flight ReviewBiennial Flight Review |
Bob,
You do not need a gyro in your aircraft for the flight review. It is not
required.You do need the flight review every two years.You would not be legal
to fly and your insurance would most likely not cover you.
You could do it in your Kitfox,Champ,Cub or any other aircraft.
I just gave a review in to a guy who owned a Cirrus last week.(I have no
time in a Cirrus) Make sure you have the time and endorsement marked in your
logbook.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem chunks problem |
On Tue, October 7, 2008 3:10 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
>> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in
>> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
>
> Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
> Kitfoxs.
Lowell - seems like 10 years back or so on this list, I seem to recall more than
a
couple of times where people wanted to slosh the Fiberglas tanks because fuel was
causing separation and leaking. Some just could not get the Kreem to stick well
and
you probably remember all the discussions about repeated sloshing with MEK to remove
the Kreem. Some people thought the particular formulation of the Kreem was old
and the
newer formulations were fine. Some thought it was Ethanol or other oxygenated
additives were causing the problem. In some cases it was thought that the Kreem
wouldn't be successful if the tanks had been used with the offending gasoline long
enough for the fuel to be absorbed somewhat in the Fiberglas. I was left with the
impression that people that were successful sloshing did so on new and unused tanks
with the most recent Kreem formulation. I could be wrong but it seemed to me like
Kreem problems happened more than "two or three" times. Being the expert craftsman
that you are, using Kreem was undoubtedly successful for you.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem chunks problem |
I sloshed my 11-year-old, previously unused tanks in 2005, and to
date have had no problem with using 100LL, with no more than 9
gallons...ever...of auto fuel being used. My exact entry into the
builder's log reads: " 1-11-05 to 1-18-05...Rinsed fuel tanks with
acetone. Sloshed tanks with Kreem. This was with the tanks already in
the wings...WHAT A BITCH!"
(Trying to completely rotate a 12-foot wing inside an 11-foot-10"
ceiling will make you cuss.)
So I think Paul is correct about the application of the Kreem....new
or very carefully cleaned tanks probably are the most successful. I
recall using 3 gallons of acetone...they are still in my shop marked
#1, #2, and #3, and I use the stuff occasionally for cleanup. I had
thought about draining the settled out stuff from the bottom of the
containers, but haven't got around to it yet....just for grins. I had
rinsed with the first gallon, saved it, used the second gallon, saved
it, and then the third gallon came out pretty clean, so I figured I
was finally done rinsing. Maybe if your tanks have already been used,
a 4th or even 5th gallon of rinse is in order. And I left the stuff
in there for hours at a time...then rotate...then more hours, etc.
Maybe that's why it took me a week to get the job done.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Tue, October 7, 2008 3:10 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
>>> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has
>>> separated in
>>> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
>>
>> Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
>> Kitfoxs.
>
> Lowell - seems like 10 years back or so on this list, I seem to
> recall more than a
> couple of times where people wanted to slosh the Fiberglas tanks
> because fuel was
> causing separation and leaking. Some just could not get the Kreem
> to stick well and
> you probably remember all the discussions about repeated sloshing
> with MEK to remove
> the Kreem. Some people thought the particular formulation of the
> Kreem was old and the
> newer formulations were fine. Some thought it was Ethanol or other
> oxygenated
> additives were causing the problem. In some cases it was thought
> that the Kreem
> wouldn't be successful if the tanks had been used with the
> offending gasoline long
> enough for the fuel to be absorbed somewhat in the Fiberglas. I was
> left with the
> impression that people that were successful sloshing did so on new
> and unused tanks
> with the most recent Kreem formulation. I could be wrong but it
> seemed to me like
> Kreem problems happened more than "two or three" times. Being the
> expert craftsman
> that you are, using Kreem was undoubtedly successful for you.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit |
Lowell:
I expect it was a gasoline additive that caused the Kreeme to separate...
Which additive? With MOGAS there is no way to know. The recipe for gas, in
this area where we have around six months of winter and six months of hard
sledding, changes almost every week. Most of us may never know whatever it
was that caused the Kreeme to separate. Of course it is also possible that
the application of the Kreeme was faulty. BTW my tanks were not sloshed
when I bought the plane.
I am surprised that you found a piece of rubber in one of your tanks as you
use a Mr. Funnel. I use a regular funnel with a felt liner to remove water.
The finger strainers are there and my gascolator has a screen across the top
of it so any dirt will stay in the bowl. That screen is fine enough that
once a blue moon it does catch the occasional hair from the felt. I check
my carb bowls on regular intervals and have never found so much as a hair in
either of them.
Unfortunately, because you may be trapped into using higher concentrations
of ethanol in your fuel, the primary job of the gascolator separating water
from the fuel, will not be done by that piece of equipment. So I can
certainly see why carrying the weight and extra complexity of having a
gascolator is not warranted in that case. However, if you run 100LL, then
at least the gascolator will give you a low point to drip your fuel system.
As for fuel filters... some like 'em, some not. If you have them keep them
clean and change them at regular intervals. If you don't have them make
sure you do at least have screens in the fuel system.
As you can guess some of the comments above are not directed at you Lowell
but to other readers of the thread. I know you have enough experience to
make good decisions for your locale but I do enjoy the discussion.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in
> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
Kitfoxs. I is interesting what folks will do after an incident or two. One
of the threads after the Kreem separation and the clogging of the finger
strainers, was whether or not to remove the finger strainers - and some did
exactly that. I repeat, it is interesting what folks do after hearing of an
incident. For what it's worth, my old Model IV had Kreem, finger strainers,
filters down stream of the wing tanks, wing tank drains, and a gascollator.
The only place I found anything during a preflight was in the wing tanks,
and finger strainers at anual. One significant wing tank find at annual
after removing the finger strainers was a chunk of rubber, consistant with a
piece broken off a fuel line presumably from a 100ll pump - during pump
maintenance? Every drop of gas from the gas station went through a Mr.
Funnel. The chunk of rubber was exactly the size it would take to enter the
fuel line and lodge itself right at a connector. My new Model IV, exactly
the same minus the gascollator, most likely.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
> Mine came in the plane. I expect you can get them through Aviall ,
> Leavens
> (in Canada), Wicks Or even ACS. The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in
> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 11:50 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
>
>
> Noel - "finger strainers"? Where does one get those? I had to throw out
> what
> I think you are talking about on the outlet of my wing tank - I foolishly
> sloshed with it in and the Kreem did a great job of sealing the whole
> thing
> water-tight. Live and learn.
>
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
> Sent: 06 October 2008 6:57 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
>
> You remove the fuel drain to measure it. The size refers to the part that
> screws into the bottom of your tank.
>
>
> I don't use any "filters" on my fuel supply they are too easy to block. I
> use finger strainers in the tanks ( no sloshing compound to come free) and
> a
> gascolator with a fuel screen.. I drip my gascolator before every flight
> and clean it every 25 hr. 50 hr. Would be ok. My father had a much
> larger
> engine in his C170B/LA-4 and they only got cleaned on the annual.
>
>
> The other little reservoir is for the water pump/rotary valve shaft. If
> you
> haven't noticed it going down then all is well. If the oil in it turns
> milky your RV shaft seal is toast. There are specific instructions for
> bleeding the injector pump and the RV shaft in the Rotax Manuals available
> from http://www.rotax-owner.com/ Check the tabs for engine manuals and
> download your manual in pdf format for your engine.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:22 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain, fuel filter, and a whatsit
>
>
> Ok - showing my ignorance here...
>
>
> The first picture is of the fuel drain for the wing tank which tends to
> leak
> and needs replacing. I got as far as
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/safair.php but the CAV-110,
> 160, 170, and 180 all look a lot like it. I know what an NPT thread is but
> where is the 1/4" or 1/8" measurement taken? Or the other measurements?
>
>
> Second picture is my fuel filter. Any suggestions on a replacement?
> Advance
> Auto Parts or Manny Moe &Jack ok?
>
>
> Third picture is the whats-it. Obviously a reservoir with some sort of
> lubricant which hasn't gone down since I have owned the plane. Obviously
> something I need to know about and service.
>
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
> "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
Message 5
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Lynn:
I print my lists on the confuser. Generally I will use a spreadsheet
program. Then I laminate them with clear binding tape... the 1.5-2 in
stuff. I apply the tape on both sides of each sheet to make it water proof.
A good idea for float planes. The binding tape can be marked on with normal
water based markers and wiped clear with a damp cloth. I figure the average
small roll of tape available at the local drug store will do about a million
sheets of paper... Ok that's a slight exaggeration. I did the same thing
with my W&B sheet. We're supposed to carry one with us. I did out a W&B
sheet for my plane with the regular data printed in. The blanks that I have
to fill in I have some 3M magic tape over the binding tape. I can write on
the "Magic" tape with a pencil and erase it several times before peeling off
the "magic" tape and applying fresh. I do the same thing on my dead
reckoning computer. The screen that you are supposed to draw you vector
line on I put a small piece of tape with a tab for easy removal. Then I
draw my line on the tape. That allows me to use a ball point if nothing
else is around.
One other thing I try to print the sheets a size that will easily clip to my
knee board.
Like yourself my check sheets last until the next time I find something I
think should be on it.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel drain
Pre-flight check list? Absolutely! All of mine are on one sheet of
paper. I just re-wrote it to include the "fuel pump ON" notation at
'engine start' and 'before takeoff' sections. And of course, I've had
to up the allowable CHT temps after the recent probe location change,
which resulted in reported temps higher than what Jabiru reported
(because they didn't do it right, I like to think : ) ). One of
these days I'll have it encased in plastic, but I never seem to be
absolutely sure that I'm done writing it. I'll pencil in stuff of
importance as I think of it/them, then print up a new one, then start
to pencil in new stuff on that one. Just like building the plane,
building the checklist is an ongoing process for me. I used one
checklist until it finally became two pieces....worn in half due to
the constant handling and folding.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kreem chunks problem |
Hi Paul,
Noel mentioned that the reason he hasn't Kreemed the wing tanks was because
of the issue of Kreem coming loose and blocking the finger strainers. I can
recall only one instance that I am aware of when that happened. Granted
there are tons of Kitfoxes out there without list affiliation, but I doubt
there were many instances of Kreem problems, because back then, the factory
was very keen on posting Service Bulletins if it determined there were
issues. There is one Service Bulletin regarding an unnamed sloshing
compound coming loose in an aluminum header tank. In the search list it is
erroneosly dated 1999 covering the general time span of the LV Howell
instance, but the date on the Denney bulletin is 1991. The LV Howell
instance was on one of the early Alaska adventures.
http://www.sportflight.com/alaska/KingEpilogMain.htm Check day eleven.
There may have been others where flaking occurred, but I am not aware of
other total blockages from loose Kreem or other instances where large pieces
came out - 8X8". I mentioned two or three to be a tad liberal. As Lynn
suggested, it may have been due to poorly prepared internal surfaces.
The reason for my post is pretty much as you mention. It caused a real
firestorm, so to speak. Many seemed to become Kreem phobic and took great
lengths to either reslosh or remove it. Others just added it to their
prefight and went on flying. I have been on flights of ten with friends to
the Idaho back country. None of these guys are on the list, and none with
Kreem issues and none concerned with Kreem. And most of them with Kitfoxes
from the Kreem issue era. I just wonder how many of the resloshers actually
had issues with the Kreem.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 4:53 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kreem chunks problem
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Tue, October 7, 2008 3:10 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>>
>> Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
>>> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated
>>> in
>>> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
>>
>> Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
>> Kitfoxs.
>
> Lowell - seems like 10 years back or so on this list, I seem to recall
> more than a
> couple of times where people wanted to slosh the Fiberglas tanks because
> fuel was
> causing separation and leaking. Some just could not get the Kreem to stick
> well and
> you probably remember all the discussions about repeated sloshing with MEK
> to remove
> the Kreem. Some people thought the particular formulation of the Kreem was
> old and the
> newer formulations were fine. Some thought it was Ethanol or other
> oxygenated
> additives were causing the problem. In some cases it was thought that the
> Kreem
> wouldn't be successful if the tanks had been used with the offending
> gasoline long
> enough for the fuel to be absorbed somewhat in the Fiberglas. I was left
> with the
> impression that people that were successful sloshing did so on new and
> unused tanks
> with the most recent Kreem formulation. I could be wrong but it seemed to
> me like
> Kreem problems happened more than "two or three" times. Being the expert
> craftsman
> that you are, using Kreem was undoubtedly successful for you.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
>
Message 7
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I use the "confuser" printer too, printing on a half-sheet of 8.5 x
11. I hadn't thought of using wide tape for the lamination
process...thanks for the tip...saves me a trip to the lamination store.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
On Oct 8, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Lynn:
>
>
> I print my lists on the confuser. Generally I will use a
> spreadsheet program. Then I laminate them with clear binding
> tape... the 1.5-2 in stuff.
>
> Noel Loveys
>
> Campbellton, NL, Canada
>
> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
>
> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
>
> Aerocet 1100 floats
>
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Message 8
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| Subject: | Throttle springs |
Hi:
I'm new here, having just purchased a Kitfox IV Speedster with a Rotax 912UL.
The throttle springs are set to open the throttle in the event of a linkage failure.
OK, but the springs are so strong that they pull the cable right past the
ratchet in a vernier throttle. I'm using a collet type throttle, but as soon
as I loosen the collet, the springs try to pull the throttle out of my hand.
Is there a lighter spring available? What have you done and where did you get
the springs?
Jim Feldmann
Kitfox IV Speedster
912UL N629JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7923#207923
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mr Funnel for MoGas not airport 100LL |
On Wed, October 8, 2008 8:16 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> I am surprised that you found a piece of rubber in one of your tanks as you
> use a Mr. Funnel.
The way I intyerpret what he said is; he uses that funnel every single time he
puts in
MoGas from, I presume, gas cans. He doesn't use the filter funnel at airports when
filling with 100LL so that's how he knows he got the piece of gasket or O-ring
from an
airport filling, not from using MoGas.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
I bought lighter springs from the local Ace Hardware store.
Floran Higgins
Helena, Mt
Speedster
912 ULS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 11:25 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Throttle springs
> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi:
>
> I'm new here, having just purchased a Kitfox IV Speedster with a Rotax
> 912UL.
>
> The throttle springs are set to open the throttle in the event of a
> linkage failure. OK, but the springs are so strong that they pull the
> cable right past the ratchet in a vernier throttle. I'm using a collet
> type throttle, but as soon as I loosen the collet, the springs try to pull
> the throttle out of my hand.
>
> Is there a lighter spring available? What have you done and where did you
> get the springs?
>
> Jim Feldmann
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> 912UL N629JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7923#207923
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
Jim,
The way I did mine in order not to overide the safety issue, is to put a
counter acting spring between the bellcrand behind the panel and the panel.
I experimented with springs until I found one that almost perfectly matched
the throttle springs. Others have used softer springs on the carbs. I
think most were hardware store variety springs.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:25 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Throttle springs
> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi:
>
> I'm new here, having just purchased a Kitfox IV Speedster with a Rotax
> 912UL.
>
> The throttle springs are set to open the throttle in the event of a
> linkage failure. OK, but the springs are so strong that they pull the
> cable right past the ratchet in a vernier throttle. I'm using a collet
> type throttle, but as soon as I loosen the collet, the springs try to pull
> the throttle out of my hand.
>
> Is there a lighter spring available? What have you done and where did you
> get the springs?
>
> Jim Feldmann
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> 912UL N629JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7923#207923
>
>
>
Message 12
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Needing advice or input about leading edge.
Now building KF II and about to cover wings. I have installed the new
plastic leading edge cuff and intend to cover the upper leading wing surface
with aluminum over the upper false ribs. The alum. Is 12 inches wide and
will butt against the leading edge cuff, epoxied and riveted to the ribs and
spar, and covered with ceconite. My concern is the potential of oil-canning
or ripples due to wing flexing. The purpose is to smooth the leading edge.
The weight penalty is six pounds (maybe less since less finish will be
needed). I plan on segmenting the aluminum material at alternate ribs to
avoid oil-canning. Either cut the material completely or slit it from 2
inches behind leading edge through the trailing edge with a saw kerf.
So, all you engineers (pro or otherwise), please think this over and post
your input or advice. Also, my fuel system plan is each six gallon wing
tank routed to the alum. 1.1 gallon header tank mounted behind the right
seat, which feeds into a facet pump under right seat then to the supplied
cutoff valve below the throttle cable, then to the gascolater on the lower
right front side of firewall, then up to the impulse pump on the firewall
and out to the bing carbs on the 582. Vapor return line from the alum
header back to the right wing tank. The left tank will have a fuel valve on
the headrack, so I can isolate the two tanks and only fuel the right side
for short flights. Plan to use the Facet on takeoff and steep climb, per
Lynn Mattesen. Anyone see problems with my plan? Thanks for advice. Do
not archive.
Ed Gray, Dallas, KFII No. 705, 582 grayhead, GSC 3 blade
PS I have a backpack emergency chute to wear while I test the plane. I have
jumped before, but does anybody know someone who has bailed out of a Kitfox,
ie. Any problem getting the door open or clearing the lift strut?
egraylaw@swbell.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | Throttle springs |
Hi
I added a spring the same way as Lowell and it is working fine. When the
throttle lock is depressed there is a very slight opening of the throttle
but nothing like before.
Purchased the spring at a local hardware store
Brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: October 8, 2008 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Throttle springs
Jim,
The way I did mine in order not to overide the safety issue, is to put a
counter acting spring between the bellcrand behind the panel and the panel.
I experimented with springs until I found one that almost perfectly matched
the throttle springs. Others have used softer springs on the carbs. I
think most were hardware store variety springs.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 10:25 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Throttle springs
> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
>
> Hi:
>
> I'm new here, having just purchased a Kitfox IV Speedster with a Rotax
> 912UL.
>
> The throttle springs are set to open the throttle in the event of a
> linkage failure. OK, but the springs are so strong that they pull the
> cable right past the ratchet in a vernier throttle. I'm using a collet
> type throttle, but as soon as I loosen the collet, the springs try to pull
> the throttle out of my hand.
>
> Is there a lighter spring available? What have you done and where did you
> get the springs?
>
> Jim Feldmann
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> 912UL N629JB
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7923#207923
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Another Throttle springs problem |
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=======AVGMAIL-48ED21610000=======--
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Thanks John - I'll give the viton a try
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jabiru 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
On Wed, October 8, 2008 12:25 pm, Ed Gray wrote:
> Needing advice or input about leading edge.
> Now building KF II and about to cover wings. I have installed the new
> plastic leading edge cuff and intend to cover the upper leading wing surface
> with aluminum over the upper false ribs. The alum. Is 12 inches wide and
> will butt against the leading edge cuff, epoxied and riveted to the ribs and
> spar, and covered with ceconite.
Ceconite? Really? Not using Poly-Fiber? It's been a while since I compared them
but
what's recorded in my head is not more than my conclusion and that was that Poly-Fiber
a better choice.
<http://www.polyfiber.com/stits/index.htm>
It's lighter, won't support combustion and is more easily repairable.
As to the Aluminum idea, customizations can look very nice but every ounce you
can
save in weight is one that you'll wish you had more of when you get to flying.
It's
extra work, extra cost, extra weight and doing so is bound to extend the time before
you start flying. Even with your ideas for preventing "oil canning", you can't
be
certain of that without some pretty complex modeling or field trials. Also you're
bound to introduce bending stress concentrations at the relief joints where the
design
was intended for a uniformly distrubuted load.
> PS I have a backpack emergency chute to wear while I test the plane. I have
> jumped before, but does anybody know someone who has bailed out of a Kitfox,
> ie. Any problem getting the door open or clearing the lift strut?
> egraylaw@swbell.net
If you're able to escape and you're high enough above ground, then that would work.
But you'd surely lose your aircraft. Using a BRS ballistic parachute, achieves
nearly
instantaneous deployment and would likely save you and the plane.
Some history
<http://www.brsparachutes.com/About+BRS/BRS+History/default.aspx>
contact them to find the current cost and the weight.
<http://www.brsparachutes.com/Contact+Us/default.aspx>
Then tell us what you have decided. I'm going to put one in my Merlin GT because
I'm
just not at all certain about what will happen when being pulled by a Rotax 914.
That's more engine than has been used on any I know, although using a 912 is common.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
Just got back from the hanger and I took a picture of the linkage I am talking
about. It seems like that is an awful lot of spring just to open the throttle
in case of a linkage failure. Not sure I would like to see what happens if the
linkage only fails on one side either.
The main problems though are the difficulty in holding a specific throttle setting
during approach, and the fact that the throttle creeps open during cruise.
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7968#207968
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf1265_171.jpg
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
Sorry to be picky=2C but it looks like the choke cable could use some atten
tion also. Jim Chuk Kitfox 4 building Avid MK IV flying Mn> Subject: Ki
tfox-List: Re: Throttle springs> From: feldesign@earthlink.net> Date: Wed
=2C 8 Oct 2008 15:31:09 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-
List message posted by: "Jim Feldmann" <feldesign@earthlink.net>> > Just go
t back from the hanger and I took a picture of the linkage I am talking abo
ut. It seems like that is an awful lot of spring just to open the throttle
in case of a linkage failure. Not sure I would like to see what happens if
the linkage only fails on one side either.> > The main problems though are
the difficulty in holding a specific throttle setting during approach=2C an
d the fact that the throttle creeps open during cruise.> > Jim> > > > > Rea
d this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=
207968#207968> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/
==============> > >
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part
of your life.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
At 12:25 PM 10/8/2008, you wrote:
>I have installed the new plastic leading edge cuff and intend to
>cover the upper leading wing surface with aluminum over the upper false ribs.
Do you mean you have installed the PVC leading edge from a IV onto a
II? Or is there some other leading edge treatment for a II I am not
aware of? (I thought they used the aluminum tube as the leading edge.)
>The alum. Is 12 inches wide and will butt against the leading edge
>cuff, epoxied and riveted to the ribs and spar, and covered with
>ceconite. My concern is the potential of oil-canning or ripples due
>to wing flexing.
A reasonable concern, considering how much flex I see when I fly. If
I were you I would definitely hang the plane by the tips before
covering and jump up and down on the fuselage while observing the top
skin. It should be pretty obvious if there's going to be a problem.
>then to the gascolater on the lower right front side of firewall,
Well the gascolator won't do much, and certainly won't pick up any
water, since the height of the valve precludes any water reaching it
from the tanks. You also didn't mention filters, which are a good
idea and a topic of much previous discussion, (hint, hint,) here. I
have been flying a similar configuration 300 hours without any aux
pump, and with a race car filter. I do, however, rebuild the fuel
pump every year.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
No, no... picky is good. :D
What did you see about the choke linkage that bothers you?
Jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7987#207987
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
Hi Ed
I am currently doing just as you propose. First, regarding the leading
edge, I had someone come into my hangar as I was working on the first wing,
and mentioned that he had spoken to Harry Riblet about the Kitfox wing. I
can't recall who it was, unfortunately. Mr. Riblet said that the biggest
problem with the Kitfox design was that the most critical portion of the
airfoil was the initial 10% of chord on the upper surface. That is the
first five inches on our wing. That is where the fabric on the typical
Kitfox wing dips down behind the forward spar between the ribs and false
ribs. In talking to others, I suppose the major performance benefit, if
there is in fact such a thing, would be near stall where flow separation
starts - maybe reducing stall speed. Cruise, don't know, but laminar flow
should be improved.
I have done one wing and there are some tricks. Some I solved and others I
guessed at with proof after flight. Regarding oil canning, a possibility, I
suppose, but there are lots of airplanes out there with aluminum leading
edge - Rans for example.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 12:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Leading edge
> Needing advice or input about leading edge.
>
>
> Now building KF II and about to cover wings. I have installed the new
> plastic leading edge cuff and intend to cover the upper leading wing
> surface
> with aluminum over the upper false ribs. The alum. Is 12 inches wide and
> will butt against the leading edge cuff, epoxied and riveted to the ribs
> and
> spar, and covered with ceconite. My concern is the potential of
> oil-canning
> or ripples due to wing flexing. The purpose is to smooth the leading
> edge.
> The weight penalty is six pounds (maybe less since less finish will be
> needed). I plan on segmenting the aluminum material at alternate ribs to
> avoid oil-canning. Either cut the material completely or slit it from 2
> inches behind leading edge through the trailing edge with a saw kerf.
>
>
> So, all you engineers (pro or otherwise), please think this over and post
> your input or advice. Also, my fuel system plan is each six gallon wing
> tank routed to the alum. 1.1 gallon header tank mounted behind the right
> seat, which feeds into a facet pump under right seat then to the supplied
> cutoff valve below the throttle cable, then to the gascolater on the lower
> right front side of firewall, then up to the impulse pump on the firewall
> and out to the bing carbs on the 582. Vapor return line from the alum
> header back to the right wing tank. The left tank will have a fuel valve
> on
> the headrack, so I can isolate the two tanks and only fuel the right side
> for short flights. Plan to use the Facet on takeoff and steep climb, per
> Lynn Mattesen. Anyone see problems with my plan? Thanks for advice. Do
> not archive.
>
>
> Ed Gray, Dallas, KFII No. 705, 582 grayhead, GSC 3 blade
>
>
> PS I have a backpack emergency chute to wear while I test the plane. I
> have
> jumped before, but does anybody know someone who has bailed out of a
> Kitfox,
> ie. Any problem getting the door open or clearing the lift strut?
> egraylaw@swbell.net
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
Oops.....another reason that one carb is maybe a better way to go in
engines. I hadn't thought about you guys with the two carbs, and a
runaway bank of cylinders. That sure changes the "get her home"
tactic of controlling rpm with the key switch. Does anybody out there
run Aerocarbs on Rotax's? That has no bearing on the topic, but I'm
curious.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
On Oct 8, 2008, at 6:31 PM, Jim Feldmann wrote:
> Not sure I would like to see what happens if the linkage only fails
> on one side either.
>
> The main problems though are the difficulty in holding a specific
> throttle setting during approach, and the fact that the throttle
> creeps open during cruise.
>
> Jim
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
On Oct 8, 2008, at 12:25 PM, "Ed Gray" <egraylaw@swbell.net> wrote:
> Needing advice or input about leading edge.
>
I'm really intrigued by this new composite leading edge John McBean
announced the other day. I'd be inclined to wait and see how that
works out and what they end up charging for it.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Leading edge |
John showed the new leading edge material on my visit yesterday, It
looks like it should work just fine. If I were in the build process I
would opt for the new product rather than metal.
Dee Young
Model II
N345DY
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Gibbs<mailto:MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com<mailto:kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Leading edge
On Oct 8, 2008, at 12:25 PM, "Ed Gray"
<egraylaw@swbell.net<mailto:egraylaw@swbell.net>> wrote:
Needing advice or input about leading edge.
I'm really intrigued by this new composite leading edge John McBean
announced the other day. I'd be inclined to wait and see how that works
out and what they end up charging for it.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Kitfox-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle springs |
Looked to me like some of the strands on the choke cable were broke off whe
re the screw holds the cabel to the choke lever. Take care=2C Jim Chuk
Kitfox 4 building Mn> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Throttle springs> From: fe
ldesign@earthlink.net> Date: Wed=2C 8 Oct 2008 17:47:21 -0700> To: kitfox-l
design@earthlink.net>> > No=2C no... picky is good. :D > > What did you see
about the choke linkage that bothers you?> > Jim> > > > > Read this topic
online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7987#207987
==========> > >
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