Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:55 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Noel Loveys)
2. 07:10 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Noel Loveys)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Lynn Matteson)
4. 07:28 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Lynn Matteson)
5. 01:59 PM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox (A H)
6. 09:05 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
7. 10:12 PM - Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
I own a Grumman canoe it has been in the water, mostly fresh, but with
several trips on the briny blue. I think it's a '47 or '48. The only mark
on it wis where my father didn't pull it completely out of the water on one
occasion. This canoe built of aircraft grade aluminium has been left in the
woods for years at a time and basically abused but at close to 60 years it
is still nto leaking a drop and I'll put it up against any of the plastic
canoes or other aluminium canoes on the market at this time. In fact it
appears to be better built than some of the newer Grummans. My point is it
takes some doing to corrode aluminium. That being said I've also had to
replace lots of aluminium in planes. Surprisingly most of it was at one
time or the other protected with zinc chromate, Alumiprep or Alodine. The
job I'm not loking lorward to is having to change out the washroom in any
jetliner... that is a known high corrosion area.
If you are going to protect the interior of the spars a two part epoxy zinc
chromate is not necessary because nothing has to stick to it. Sloshing with
a regular zinc chromate will give ample protection to the interior of the
spars. The exterior of the spars is another question. The wing covering
has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two part
epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive. Zinc
chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply it
sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
chromate.
I put out a fire once in the iron ore concentrator plant in Labrador City.
A painter had dropped a rag damp with linseed oil in a garbage can. The
garbage was dumped into a dumpster which was right beside the oil reservoir
in the plant. I happened to notice the smoke as I walked past and before I
could get the extinguisher out and ready to operate flames were coming out
of the dumpster ten to fifteen feet high... inside the plant. I put out the
fire and shortly afterward I had to explain why I had used the extinguisher.
It was a large one on a dolly with fifty feet of hose. When the safety
technicians looked in the dumpster and the blisters on the paint of the oil
reservoir I was considered the hero of the moment.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 10:40 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????
Thanks for the suggestion Noel, that brings a question to mind... Is there
a place in all the joints in the fuselage for oil to flow through ? I
thought that many of them might be closed off with metal. Would I not have
to drill a hole in almost every other tube vertical tube in the fuselage to
get this stuff in there ? I have this stuff from Aircraft Spruce called
Tube Seal that is made for corrosion protection of aircraft tubing. More
expensive than linseed oil, but I'm hoping it will work better.
There will most definitely be times when my plane is out in the weather...
I hope just during cross countries, and rainstorms, but it may turn into
longer than that. Hangers here in Miami cost 650 a month at the small GA
airport, that is after you do the three year wait for one [Evil or Very Mad]
Thanks for the warning on Spontaneous Combustion, that would have really
sucked to burn down my house :( But then again, this new knowledge could
also lead to hours of entertainment [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210288#210288
Message 2
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| Subject: | Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
All cluster joints should be open inside. The strength is in the tube not
the interior. One hole in the frame should give access to the interior of
the whole frame. The only exceptions will be any brackets which may be
welded to the frame.
One thing about any resin or powder coat finish is that if there is ine
little abrasion in the finish then it is possible to have a filliform
corrosion to develop under the finish. This type of corrosion can usually
be repaired by sanding the affected area to remove corrosion and
re-finishing. There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti
corrosion methods. Download a copy and have a read.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 11:47 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????
Having welded on a fuselage frame, I strongly believe that if you drill one
small hole in one portion of the frame for introducing the oil, that tube
and that tube only will be protected. Every tube has it's own welded end,
that is every tube is separated by the joint weld - almost all are butt
welded. The longerons might be continuous on their length but the cross
braces are entirely separate. How do I know? I moved the shoulder harness
attachment points to a position I liked a bit better and if I didn't drill a
hole at the weld point, the heated air within the tube would blow a hole in
the tube near the weld. For my money, especially if the frame is well
coated - epoxy primer, or powder coat - I would leave that part alone.
That said, though, there have been reports in the past of the powder coat
lifting, blistering or light dustings of corrosion on the surface as if
pinpoint defects were in the powder coat. This was years past and I suspect
the factory has addressed this issue with better surface prep before the
powder coating, but, to put it succintly, I wish my new old kit was not
powder coated.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????
> The two part epoxy primer should be ok for the inside of the spars.
> Actually if your plane is kept in a hanger out of rain I doubt you would
> need anything in the spars. Aluminium will form its own oxide coating
> which
> protects it as long as it doesn't get wet. For the weight that is
> involved
> prime it if it makes you feel happier. The nice thing about the two part
> primer is it won't dissolve with the other finishing chemicals.
>
>
>
> As for the fuselage that's a different quintal of fish. I recommend
> drilling one small hole 1/16 " close to the top of the frame on the
> inside.
> Use a small syringe to inject about a cup or two of double boiled linseed
> oil into the frame. Put a small screw into the hole and then rotate the
> frame in every possible direction for about a week. (change the rotation
> daily) Then drain the linseed oil out the same hole into a can. (Turn the
> frame upside down). Replace the screw with a little epoxy around it to
> seal
> the hole. There are a few things to know about linseed oil. One is it
> will
> never dry until it comes in contact with air. The driest it will get
> inside
> your frame is the consistency of a gel so you don't need to re inhibit
> your
> frame at a later date.
>
>
>
> Linseed oil likes to migrate... it will on its own wick into every nook
> and
> cranny of the frame from the inside and inhibit any corrosion that can
> form
> in there. The biggest thing to remember about using linseed oil is it
> will
> spontaneously combust if you allow it to drip on a floor and then wipe it
> up
> with a rag. It usually takes about fifteen minutes to break into fire
> (from
> a wet/damp rag) and I can guarantee you it will produce a lot of white
> smoke. If you have to wipe up any drips put the rag outside in a fire
> proof rag bin. Funny thing is in a dish or can it will not spontaneously
> combust. It needs the larger surface area a cloth gives.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sigtaturea
>
>
>
> Noel Loveys
>
> Campbellton, NL, Canada
>
> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
>
> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
>
> 582 B box, Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
>
> noelloveys@yahoo.ca
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 3:40 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am building a Kitfox SS, I am located in Miami so I need to do
> everything
> possible to protect from corrosion. First I will be sloshing the inside
> and
> painting the outside of the wing spars with a 2 part epoxy primer as
> recommended by some. What is the best Epoxy primer to use for this ???? I
> will be covering with Poly Fiber system, is the epoxy primer sold by Poly
> Fiber the best I can use ?
>
>
>
> My fuselage is powder coated at the factory. I have heard about using Tube
> Seal inside the tubing, but am not sure if I am more likely to cause
> problems drilling holes in the fuselage tubes to get the tube seal in ??
> If
> the tubes are sealed on the ends where the welds are, than I think I would
> be better off not doing anything.
>
>
>
> Is there anything I am missing here, anything else I could do to protect
> against corrosion before I build ?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> --------
>
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
> could have !!!
>
>
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210258#210258
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
Now that you mention it, I've heard that too. In that application,
the reason is to keep track of any cracks that might appear due to
stress, and he sure puts 'em under stress, but I was wondering if any
of the "common folk" airplanes...those that are tube frames, get the
"drill and weld" procedure to insure oil flow throughout. To be more
to the point of this Kitfox list, I wonder if Kitfoxes are done this
way. John?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 26, 2008, at 12:50 AM, James Shumaker wrote:
> Lynn
>
> I understand that Sean D Tucker (acro pilot) has all the tubes (in
> the Oracle Challenger) drilled at the intesection and then the
> inhibitors are introduced and then nitrogen under pressure is
> introduced. Then a pressure gauge in installed. Any loss of
> pressure is a cause for concern. So yes it is done.
>
> Jim Shumaker
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 8:48:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any
> ideas ????
>
>
> I wonder if any thought has been given to drilling a small hole into
> the main tube right where the "to-be-added" tube will intersect it?
> This would insure that the flow of the rust/corrosion inhibiter would
> be able to flow freely throughout the entire airframe. Maybe this is
> standard practice, I don't know...if not, why not?
>
> Lynn Matteson
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
Download it hell, buy the book! It's a good "bible" to have on hand
when you want to know how to build your plane. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
do not archive
On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti corrosion
> methods. Download a copy and have a read.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | RE: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox |
If you were going to do some corrosion protection I would do just the botto
m longerons. Primarily because they see the most abuse from sticks=2C ston
es=2C and whatever else may hit the lower tube=2C plus the stress of the ta
il wheel attach points and bottom of the rudder post. I would not worry ab
out the other tubes unless a hole was drilled into it. Some of the older K
itfox's had a hole drilled in the square tube forward door frame for a pin
to hold the door closed. This is where moisture can get in and start the c
orrosion process.
Andy
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
Clip clip
> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two part
> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive. Zinc
> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply it
> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
> chromate.
Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or primer in
the
last few years?
I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and Rustoleum
made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort to get
the
MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the 5 I
looked
up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't researched
this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the quality
of
life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it that were
at
least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8 minutes and
have
been using it.
I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well. Certainly seems
like some research into this could be useful.
clip clip clip
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 7
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a |
Well well, I guess Zinc Chromate primer is available, just not in retail stores
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ptizincchromateprimer.php>
I could only find a scanned version of AC 43-4a.
<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/a7ffc0f8b6216a43862569b5005081ed/$FILE/AC%2043-4a%20.pdf>
Certainly the FAA should have an original someplace because I found the section
on
corrosion pertaining to Avionics in parts 1 and 2:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/BE991FB487CD318586256CE100677049?OpenDocument>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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