Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Lowell Fitt)
2. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Lowell Fitt)
3. 01:05 PM - How to secure threaded EGT probes? (darinh)
4. 01:19 PM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Noel Loveys)
5. 01:20 PM - BrightLine Bags Pilot Flight Bag (BrightLine)
6. 02:24 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Noel Loveys)
7. 02:33 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a (Noel Loveys)
8. 02:37 PM - Re: Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a (Noel Loveys)
9. 02:56 PM - Re: How to secure threaded EGT probes? (Rick)
10. 03:12 PM - Re: How to secure threaded EGT probes? (Noel Loveys)
11. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
12. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate (Noel Loveys)
13. 06:30 PM - exhaust in cabin (charles cook)
14. 10:10 PM - Re: exhaust in cabin (Marco Menezes)
15. 10:37 PM - Re: exhaust in cabin (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
Paul,
In reading these pages in ACS, I had always assumed that the Zinc Chromate
primer offered was a solvent based primer as it is available in spray cans
and the Epoxy primer was of a different formulation for it's corrosion
resistance.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Clip clip
>
>> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two
>> part
>> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.
>> Zinc
>> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply
>> it
>> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
>> chromate.
>
> Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or
> primer in the
> last few years?
>
> I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and
> Rustoleum
> made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort
> to get the
> MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the
> 5 I looked
> up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't
> researched
> this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the
> quality of
> life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
>
> An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it
> that were at
> least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8
> minutes and have
> been using it.
>
> I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well.
> Certainly seems
> like some research into this could be useful.
>
> clip clip clip
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
There is an interesting discussion group that google found with some
questions and responses that are pertinent to this question. They call it
the "Home Page of the Finishing Industry. Go to:
http://www.finishing.com/0600-0799/702.shtml
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Clip clip
>
>> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two
>> part
>> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.
>> Zinc
>> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply
>> it
>> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
>> chromate.
>
> Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or
> primer in the
> last few years?
>
> I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and
> Rustoleum
> made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort
> to get the
> MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the
> 5 I looked
> up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't
> researched
> this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the
> quality of
> life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
>
> An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it
> that were at
> least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8
> minutes and have
> been using it.
>
> I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well.
> Certainly seems
> like some research into this could be useful.
>
> clip clip clip
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | How to secure threaded EGT probes? |
Ok guys, nobody seems to know the answer to this...at least nobody I have asked
yet. That is why I am asking it here which is probably where I should have started.
I have the Grand Rapids EIS and have the 4 EGT probes installed (threaded type
no the band-clamp type for 912/914). The problem is they keep loosening up.
I have them safety wired in so they will not come out completely but I would like
to secure them so the don't loosen. I assume the loosening is partially due
to vibration and heat expansion of the pipes/probes during running.
I have thought about threadlocker (I have found one that will hold up to 2200 degrees
F but it is $$$$ for a tiny bottle). GRT doesn't have a specific torque
setting they know that will prevent loosening. What have you guys done? Or
does anyone have any ideas?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210575#210575
Message 4
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| Subject: | Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
I have a printed copy and one on my PDA and of course one here... they all
get well used. Some guys just won't buy one until they see what's in it.
It is the basis for all aircraft maintenance and it goes into some depth as
to why, not just do it this way.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ????
Download it hell, buy the book! It's a good "bible" to have on hand
when you want to know how to build your plane. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
do not archive
On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti corrosion
> methods. Download a copy and have a read.
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | BrightLine Bags Pilot Flight Bag |
Hello Everyone,
My name is Bryan Smith and I am with a company called BrightLine Bags. I do not want to offend anybody by posting on this list, so I apologize in advance if I have. I am a student pilot as well. I posted on the Commander list with the help of a Commander owner and received wonderful response from quite a few Commander owners. We make a brand new type of Pilot Flight Bag. It is like nothing you have seen or used before. If you use a flight bag, I am quite certain that if you go to our website at www.brightlinebags.com and click on the demo video, you will be impressed. Thank you everyone for this forum. We will be at the AOPA conterence in November if anybody is going. Please stop by and say hi. If you have any questions, you can contact me directly at bryan@brightlinebags.com. Thanks again.
Bryan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210589#210589
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/brightline_pilot_flight_bag_858.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
The last time I saw two part epoxy zinc chromate was a while ago... I would
try one of the suppliers for certified aircraft. Aviall, Wicks and Leavens
in Canada come to mind.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Franz,
P.E.
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
Clip clip
> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two
part
> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.
Zinc
> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply
it
> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
> chromate.
Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or primer
in the
last few years?
I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and
Rustoleum
made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort to
get the
MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the 5
I looked
up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't
researched
this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the
quality of
life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it
that were at
least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8 minutes
and have
been using it.
I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well.
Certainly seems
like some research into this could be useful.
clip clip clip
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 7
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a |
You need to find -1A/2B. It is also available for perusing in print form,
although I'm not sure what the cost is. I got mine when I was in school
studying aircraft maintenance and I'll certainolly echoLynns thoughts that
it is a great basis to have in the print form.
Well worth the $$ even if it is over $100 now which I doubt.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Franz,
P.E.
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:42 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a
<paul@eucleides.com>
Well well, I guess Zinc Chromate primer is available, just not in retail
stores
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ptizincchromateprimer.php>
I could only find a scanned version of AC 43-4a.
<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0
/a7ffc0f8b6216a43862569b5005081ed/$FILE/AC%2043-4a%20.pdf>
Certainly the FAA should have an original someplace because I found the
section on
corrosion pertaining to Avionics in parts 1 and 2:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/
BE991FB487CD318586256CE100677049?OpenDocument>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 8
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| Subject: | Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a |
Try
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/
99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument
And then
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/
11E144125D63FE548625740A00731B4A?OpenDocument
That should give you what you need. (PDF format)
I always called the circular AC43 but it is AC43.13-1b/2a
Looking things up in the book is generally faster even with the inks in the
pdf files.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Franz,
P.E.
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 2:42 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Zinc Chromate Paint / AC 43-4a
<paul@eucleides.com>
Well well, I guess Zinc Chromate primer is available, just not in retail
stores
<http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ptizincchromateprimer.php>
I could only find a scanned version of AC 43-4a.
<http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0
/a7ffc0f8b6216a43862569b5005081ed/$FILE/AC%2043-4a%20.pdf>
Certainly the FAA should have an original someplace because I found the
section on
corrosion pertaining to Avionics in parts 1 and 2:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/
BE991FB487CD318586256CE100677049?OpenDocument>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 9
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| Subject: | How to secure threaded EGT probes? |
I would just keep them safety wired. Some day they will need replacing
and you know what that means.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: 2008-10-27 13:05
Subject: Kitfox-List: How to secure threaded EGT probes?
Ok guys, nobody seems to know the answer to this...at least nobody I
have asked yet. That is why I am asking it here which is probably where
I should have started.
I have the Grand Rapids EIS and have the 4 EGT probes installed
(threaded type no the band-clamp type for 912/914). The problem is they
keep loosening up. I have them safety wired in so they will not come
out completely but I would like to secure them so the don't loosen. I
assume the loosening is partially due to vibration and heat expansion of
the pipes/probes during running.
I have thought about threadlocker (I have found one that will hold up to
2200 degrees F but it is $$$$ for a tiny bottle). GRT doesn't have a
specific torque setting they know that will prevent loosening. What
have you guys done? Or does anyone have any ideas?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210575#210575
Message 10
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| Subject: | How to secure threaded EGT probes? |
Try AC 43.13-1b pp. 7-24.
You may have to drill a hole through two adjacent flats on the nut to put
the wire through.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 5:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: How to secure threaded EGT probes?
Ok guys, nobody seems to know the answer to this...at least nobody I have
asked yet. That is why I am asking it here which is probably where I should
have started.
I have the Grand Rapids EIS and have the 4 EGT probes installed (threaded
type no the band-clamp type for 912/914). The problem is they keep
loosening up. I have them safety wired in so they will not come out
completely but I would like to secure them so the don't loosen. I assume
the loosening is partially due to vibration and heat expansion of the
pipes/probes during running.
I have thought about threadlocker (I have found one that will hold up to
2200 degrees F but it is $$$$ for a tiny bottle). GRT doesn't have a
specific torque setting they know that will prevent loosening. What have
you guys done? Or does anyone have any ideas?
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210575#210575
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
On Mon, October 27, 2008 6:05 am, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> In reading these pages in ACS, I had always assumed that the Zinc Chromate
> primer offered was a solvent based primer as it is available in spray cans
> and the Epoxy primer was of a different formulation for it's corrosion
> resistance.
You have a lot more expertise than I do, but I think that if you're going to paint
over the primer, in some circumstances the Zinc Chromate would be better for one
thing
it is flat and has a better tooth. The solvent base must be considered for the
type of
stuff you're going to apply to it. I'd sure check with PolyFiber if that's going
on
over it. I'm pretty certain that the Epoxy you speak of is compatible with Poly
Fiber,
but not being certain, I'd check with them first before buying.
After doing some research, it turns out Boeing has adopted a new anti-corrosion
paint
that has less environmental risk. I found the part number for it, but not the content
yet. Found one reference that said it was pricey in small quantities.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:04 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
>
>
>> <paul@eucleides.com>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
>> Clip clip
>>
>>> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two
>>> part
>>> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.
>>> Zinc
>>> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply
>>> it
>>> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
>>> chromate.
>>
>> Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or
>> primer in the
>> last few years?
>>
>> I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and
>> Rustoleum
>> made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort
>> to get the
>> MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the
>> 5 I looked
>> up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't
>> researched
>> this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the
>> quality of
>> life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
>>
>> An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it
>> that were at
>> least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8
>> minutes and have
>> been using it.
>>
>> I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well.
>> Certainly seems
>> like some research into this could be useful.
>>
>> clip clip clip
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
>> PAF Consulting Engineers
>> Office 425.440.9505
>> Cell 425.241.1618
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate |
Now that's a great find Lowell. Thanks i have it bookmarked now.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
There is an interesting discussion group that google found with some
questions and responses that are pertinent to this question. They call it
the "Home Page of the Finishing Industry. Go to:
http://www.finishing.com/0600-0799/702.shtml
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 8:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Corrosion Protection/Zinc chromate
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Sun, October 26, 2008 5:54 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Clip clip
>
>> has to be able to have a strong bond with the spars. This means a two
>> part
>> epoxy is required because it is not dissolved by the fabric adhesive.
>> Zinc
>> chromate will actually protect the aluminium at a molecular level. Apply
>> it
>> sparingly and be sure to wear rubber gloves when working with any zinc
>> chromate.
>
> Noel, Have you been successful obtaining Zinc Chromate based paint or
> primer in the
> last few years?
>
> I ran out and went searching for some and paint brands such as DeRusto and
> Rustoleum
> made no claim of containing it (they used to) so I took the extra effort
> to get the
> MSDS for each of the products that claimed corrosion protection and of the
> 5 I looked
> up, two had zinc phosphate but none had Zinc Chromate in them. I haven't
> researched
> this but it is likely that somebody found that it was detrimental to the
> quality of
> life of laboratory mice or was a runner up in the global warming debacle.
>
> An A&P friend of mine gave me 2 quarts of "Boeing Green" as he called it
> that were at
> least 15 years old. I put the two cans in a Lowes paint shaker for 8
> minutes and have
> been using it.
>
> I wonder if these new blends with zinc phosphate will work as well.
> Certainly seems
> like some research into this could be useful.
>
> clip clip clip
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | exhaust in cabin |
Finished building and statred flying this summer a mod ll. With the weather
turning cooler I flew with the doors closed a couple of days ago and I am
getting an exhaust smell. Could this be comming from the-bungee access ar
ea?
Charles Cook
Mod ll 582- Atl-=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Could be. Or from around cowling/firewall seal. Get a CO detector if you do
n't have one already. Cheap insurance.
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 10/27/08, charles cook <cookflys@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: charles cook <cookflys@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: exhaust in cabin
Finished building and statred flying this summer a mod ll. With the weather
turning cooler I flew with the doors closed a couple of days ago and I am
getting an exhaust smell. Could this be comming from the-bungee access ar
ea?
Charles Cook
Mod ll 582- Atl-
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
At 06:29 PM 10/27/2008, you wrote:
>Could this be comming from the bungee access area?
I would think so. I have mine sealed.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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