Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:36 AM - Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? (Lynn Matteson)
2. 05:43 AM - Re: exhaust in cabin (Tom Jones)
3. 09:53 AM - cabin exhaust (charles cook)
4. 09:55 AM - Re: exhaust in cabin (LarryM)
5. 10:00 AM - cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? (charles cook)
6. 11:10 AM - Re: cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? (Bob Brennan)
7. 11:43 AM - Re: exhaust in cabin (nick4853)
8. 11:44 AM - FW: cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? (Bob Brennan)
9. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Noel Loveys)
10. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Lynn Matteson)
11. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Bob Brennan)
12. 03:20 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Lynn Matteson)
13. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Lynn Matteson)
14. 04:42 PM - Re: cabin exhaust (Guy Buchanan)
15. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
16. 10:31 PM - Vertical stabilizer rib question (jlfernan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any ideas ???? |
When I first got started building, I bought one, and every now and
then I just look through it to learn something new.
I couldn't have successfully built my skis without it, for instance.
And for running wires, wires in bundles, wires near liquid
lines....it just goes on and on.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
do not archive
On Oct 27, 2008, at 4:18 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I have a printed copy and one on my PDA and of course one here...
> they all
> get well used. Some guys just won't buy one until they see what's
> in it.
> It is the basis for all aircraft maintenance and it goes into some
> depth as
> to why, not just do it this way.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:58 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Corrosion Protection for Kitfox... Any
> ideas ????
>
>
> Download it hell, buy the book! It's a good "bible" to have on hand
> when you want to know how to build your plane. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster
> Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
> ignition system
> do not archive
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2008, at 10:09 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
>> There is a good section in AC43 on corrosion and anti corrosion
>> methods. Download a copy and have a read.
>>
>>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
[quote="cookflys(at)yahoo.com"]Finished building and statred flying this summer
a mod ll. With the weather turning cooler I flew with the doors closed a couple
of days ago and I am getting an exhaust smell. Could this be comming from the
bungee access area?
Charles Cook
Mod ll 582 Atl
> [b]
On my first flight I had no sealing around the buggees and had exhaust smell in
the cabin. I stuffed foam rubber in the openging and that stopped the smell.
Carbon monoxide is oder less so I have a CO detector too.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210757#210757
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Are you 582 drivers using the stock exhaust? I have read where some put a e
xtension on.
What did you use to deal around bungees?
Charles Cook
N363KF -=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Tom,
I have the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening, as I have a grove
gear, and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe. You can go as
long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it, but this is now about the
4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening the door on a regular
basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed either Cabin air wise.
I am going to try 2 things, 1st - I'm going to baffle the part of the gear that
goes under the fuselage - like a deflector. If that doesn't work, I'll extend
the exhaust into a thin wall tube extending to at least the end of the cockpit
- sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths.
I find the whole deal puzzling, as are cabin is still rather breezy.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#210804
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| Subject: | cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? |
I read in the archives some 582 drivers added a small extension to the exha
ust pipe. Any comments?
How did you seal around bungees?
Charles Cook
N363KF Mod ll- 582=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? |
My 582 model 2 appears to have an exhaust extension, there is an obvious
weld near the cowling. The pipe looks like and auto exhaust with a J bend at
the bottom, and it extends a good 10" down, back, and away from the cowling;
you can just see it in the attached picture.
I have never had any exhaust smell in the cabin and have a CO2 monitor that
I change as prescribed, never a hint of discoloration. In fact the only
problem I have is discoloration of the lower gear strut fairings from the
exhaust, but that wipes off easily enough. The bungee hole is big enough to
slip a hand through and in fact I recently added window vents to add more
ventilation, the scoop kind that can be closed.
The configuration works very well, more details or better pix if anyone
wants.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles cook
Sent: 28 October 2008 12:59 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe?
I read in the archives some 582 drivers added a small extension to the
exhaust pipe. Any comments?
How did you seal around bungees?
Charles Cook
N363KF Mod ll 582
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
I had the same problem in my IV with a 912 ul. I first extended the tail piece.
While this was a little better it didn't solve the problem in fact it created
another problem. After a few hours the muffler developed a crack from the
added unsupported weight. I cut the stock exhaust pipe parrellel with the fuselage
and since then I have no CO issues.
Nick W.
P.s. My bungee holes are not sealed.
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210816#210816
Message 8
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| Subject: | cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe? |
My 582 model 2 appears to have an exhaust extension, there is an obvious
weld near the cowling. The pipe looks like and auto exhaust with a J bend at
the bottom, and it extends a good 10" down, back, and away from the cowling;
you can just see it in the attached picture.
I have never had any exhaust smell in the cabin and have a CO2 monitor that
I change as prescribed, never a hint of discoloration. In fact the only
problem I have is discoloration of the lower gear strut fairings from the
exhaust, but that wipes off easily enough. The bungee hole is big enough to
slip a hand through and in fact I recently added window vents to add more
ventilation, the scoop kind that can be closed.
The configuration works very well, more details or better pix if anyone
wants.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles cook
Sent: 28 October 2008 12:59 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: cabin exhaust/ extension to exhaust pipe?
I read in the archives some 582 drivers added a small extension to the
exhaust pipe. Any comments?
How did you seal around bungees?
Charles Cook
N363KF Mod ll 582
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
D========================
=========
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Have a look at a Piper Aztec. Yes I know it's a bit like comparing chalk
and cheese but the exhausts they use on the Aztec are called extruders.
Basically it is an open tube about three times the diameter of the exhaust
pipe. That tube is lined up with the slipstream and the exhaust pipe
projects a few inches into the tube. The idea is the exhaust, CO and noise
is enveloped in a layer of cold air without causing any back pressure. They
say the Aztec is one of the quietest piston planes around the extruders may
be the reason.
The DHC beaver also uses an extruder it makes a pretty good noise but it is
a radial engine so it's supposed to let you know its working!
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A,
Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
Tom,
I have the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening, as I have a
grove gear, and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe. You can
go as long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it, but this is now
about the 4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening the door
on a regular basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed either
Cabin air wise. I am going to try 2 things, 1st - I'm going to baffle the
part of the gear that goes under the fuselage - like a deflector. If that
doesn't work, I'll extend the exhaust into a thin wall tube extending to at
least the end of the cockpit - sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths.
I find the whole deal puzzling, as are cabin is still rather breezy.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#210804
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
I always love the topic of "unsupported tailpipes" because it gives
me a chance to display what did, and imagine what could have, happen
(ed) if you leave your pipes unsupported, especially if you extend
them to any degree. I was dumb enough to do both, and got lucky when
it didn't progress any further than what is pictured. You can see
that the (then) open exhaust licked at the firesleeve-covered fuel
line and the motormount, and got behind the flange of the battery
box...the black item at the left of the picture. Three weeks later,
the battery gave out, and I investigated and found the battery had
melted from the heat. Here's a shameless plug for Odyssey
batteries...took a lickin' and kept on tickin'
The last picture is of a stainless steel heat deflector that I built,
just in case the problem should ever occur again, and it also shows
how I supported the tail pipes.
This is a Jabiru installation, but a similar deflector/support method
could be used on other engines.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs +
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 28, 2008, at 2:33 PM, nick4853 wrote:
>
> I had the same problem in my IV with a 912 ul. I first extended
> the tail piece. While this was a little better it didn't solve the
> problem in fact it created another problem. After a few hours the
> muffler developed a crack from the added unsupported weight. I cut
> the stock exhaust pipe parrellel with the fuselage and since then I
> have no CO issues.
> Nick W.
> P.s. My bungee holes are not sealed.
>
> --------
> kitfox !V-1200
> Rotax 912ul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210816#210816
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Unsupported long tailpipes can indeed be a problem. Mine has extra springs,
safety wired just in case, and it is *always* part of my pre-flight to grab
my extra-long tailpipe and give it a good shake. ;-)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 28 October 2008 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
I always love the topic of "unsupported tailpipes" because it gives
me a chance to display what did, and imagine what could have, happen
(ed) if you leave your pipes unsupported, especially if you extend
them to any degree. I was dumb enough to do both, and got lucky when
it didn't progress any further than what is pictured. You can see
that the (then) open exhaust licked at the firesleeve-covered fuel
line and the motormount, and got behind the flange of the battery
box...the black item at the left of the picture. Three weeks later,
the battery gave out, and I investigated and found the battery had
melted from the heat. Here's a shameless plug for Odyssey
batteries...took a lickin' and kept on tickin'
The last picture is of a stainless steel heat deflector that I built,
just in case the problem should ever occur again, and it also shows
how I supported the tail pipes.
This is a Jabiru installation, but a similar deflector/support method
could be used on other engines.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs +
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
My flight instructor has similar devices on his Widgeon, and he calls
them "augmenters."
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs +
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Have a look at a Piper Aztec. Yes I know it's a bit like comparing
> chalk
> and cheese but the exhausts they use on the Aztec are called
> extruders.
> Basically it is an open tube about three times the diameter of the
> exhaust
> pipe. That tube is lined up with the slipstream and the exhaust pipe
> projects a few inches into the tube. The idea is the exhaust, CO
> and noise
> is enveloped in a layer of cold air without causing any back
> pressure. They
> say the Aztec is one of the quietest piston planes around the
> extruders may
> be the reason.
>
> The DHC beaver also uses an extruder it makes a pretty good noise
> but it is
> a radial engine so it's supposed to let you know its working!
>
>
> Noel Loveys
> AME Intern, RPP
> Kitfox III-A,
> Aerocet 1100 floats
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:25 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening, as I
> have a
> grove gear, and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe.
> You can
> go as long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it, but this
> is now
> about the 4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening
> the door
> on a regular basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed
> either
> Cabin air wise. I am going to try 2 things, 1st - I'm going to
> baffle the
> part of the gear that goes under the fuselage - like a deflector.
> If that
> doesn't work, I'll extend the exhaust into a thin wall tube
> extending to at
> least the end of the cockpit - sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths.
> I find the whole deal puzzling, as are cabin is still rather breezy.
>
> larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#210804
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Sounds like a good plan, Bob.
Just for the record, I saw an even better method of supporting a
tailpipe when I was at Oshkosh this past summer. This idea came from
an award-winning (I believe) Hatz biplane.
There are two of these hangers on each pipe...you can just barely see
the mounting bracket for the second one. His is way better than the
"rubber strap" hangar like I used on mine, and someday I'll change
them out for this type of hanger....completely fireproof. It's just a
length of SS cable, a nicopress sleeve, a hose clamp, and a short
length of SS tubing...simplicity itself! I just got to thinking that
you could even leave off the SS tubing, and use another nicopress
sleeve for the two loops of SS cable to run through, and clamp that
to the pipe. That would bring the two hangers a bit closer together,
but it might work in some circumstances.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 28, 2008, at 6:14 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Unsupported long tailpipes can indeed be a problem. Mine has extra
> springs,
> safety wired just in case, and it is *always* part of my pre-flight
> to grab
> my extra-long tailpipe and give it a good shake. ;-)
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: cabin exhaust |
At 09:52 AM 10/28/2008, you wrote:
>Are you 582 drivers using the stock exhaust?
Stock as in Skystar stock? I added the 1 1/2" lost in the
elbow trying to get some more horsepower, to no effect. Otherwise
it's stock. I also noticed exhaust ingestion on climb and for a while
ran an extension on the tip. It didn't change the horsepower and did
improve the cabin smog. My exhaust, however, always leaks at the
elbow joints. When Skystar butchered the elbow to get the exhaust to
fit they warped both ball joints. I've worked them with files, paper,
and lapping compound as much as I'm willing, but they still leak,
especially after a cleaning, before the carbon build-up closes the
joint. I have to, therefore, make sure my firewall is absolutely
air-tight, so all that exhaust goes out the cowl exit.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Gents
be careful when modifying the 582 exhaust (especially with extractor type
extensions) as they are a timed exhaust system which relies on pressure
pulses to assist in charging the cylinders with fresh fuel/air mix. If you
reduce the pressure on the outlet I'm sure that will have an effect on
performance. This is not a problem with 4 stroke engines.
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
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telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
29/10/2008 08:23 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
RE: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
Have a look at a Piper Aztec. Yes I know it's a bit like comparing chalk
and cheese but the exhausts they use on the Aztec are called extruders.
Basically it is an open tube about three times the diameter of the exhaust
pipe. That tube is lined up with the slipstream and the exhaust pipe
projects a few inches into the tube. The idea is the exhaust, CO and
noise
is enveloped in a layer of cold air without causing any back pressure.
They
say the Aztec is one of the quietest piston planes around the extruders
may
be the reason.
The DHC beaver also uses an extruder it makes a pretty good noise but it
is
a radial engine so it's supposed to let you know its working!
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A,
Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
Tom,
I have the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening, as I have a
grove gear, and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe. You
can
go as long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it, but this is now
about the 4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening the
door
on a regular basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed either
Cabin air wise. I am going to try 2 things, 1st - I'm going to baffle the
part of the gear that goes under the fuselage - like a deflector. If that
doesn't work, I'll extend the exhaust into a thin wall tube extending to
at
least the end of the cockpit - sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths.
I find the whole deal puzzling, as are cabin is still rather breezy.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#210804
Message 16
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| Subject: | Vertical stabilizer rib question |
While fitting the ribs to the VS, the bottom two don't match the drawings in the
manual. The second from the bottom is short, although looking ahead in the book,
I don't really see what it does except support the fiberglass trailing edge.
The bottom one also seemed short when it started fitting it. The drawings
show it running even with the side bottom tubes of the fuse, but mine as you can
see, is narrow near the front. Also, should the rear half fit around the small
tube sticking up? Anyone have a photo of what theirs looks like? Thanks.
(http://imageshack.us)
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210914#210914
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