Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Noel Loveys)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (patrick reilly)
3. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Guy Buchanan)
4. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (patrick reilly)
5. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: exhaust in cabin (Malcolm Brubaker)
6. 06:27 PM - Emailing: Kitfox Wind Deflector 003, Kitfox Wind Deflector 014 (david yeamans)
7. 07:04 PM - Re: exhaust leak, welding repair (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
8. 07:13 PM - Kudos to Lightspeed (jeff puls)
9. 08:38 PM - Re: Kudos to Lightspeed (Allan Aaron)
10. 09:54 PM - cabin heater (charles cook)
11. 10:16 PM - Re: cabin heater (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Regardless what they are called (I may have been wrong...again ) it is my
experience they work well without increasing back pressure. They are light,
simple to construct and will take care of the CO entering the cabin I'm not
sure if they will also help reduce staining on the bottom of the plane.
The Widgeon is a beautiful plane especially for this neck of the woods.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
My flight instructor has similar devices on his Widgeon, and he calls
them "augmenters."
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 579.1hrs +
Sensenich 62x46
flying again (17 hrs) after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system
On Oct 28, 2008, at 5:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Have a look at a Piper Aztec. Yes I know it's a bit like comparing
> chalk
> and cheese but the exhausts they use on the Aztec are called
> extruders.
> Basically it is an open tube about three times the diameter of the
> exhaust
> pipe. That tube is lined up with the slipstream and the exhaust pipe
> projects a few inches into the tube. The idea is the exhaust, CO
> and noise
> is enveloped in a layer of cold air without causing any back
> pressure. They
> say the Aztec is one of the quietest piston planes around the
> extruders may
> be the reason.
>
> The DHC beaver also uses an extruder it makes a pretty good noise
> but it is
> a radial engine so it's supposed to let you know its working!
>
>
> Noel Loveys
> AME Intern, RPP
> Kitfox III-A,
> Aerocet 1100 floats
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 2:25 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
>
>
> Tom,
>
> I have the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening, as I
> have a
> grove gear, and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe.
> You can
> go as long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it, but this
> is now
> about the 4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening
> the door
> on a regular basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed
> either
> Cabin air wise. I am going to try 2 things, 1st - I'm going to
> baffle the
> part of the gear that goes under the fuselage - like a deflector.
> If that
> doesn't work, I'll extend the exhaust into a thin wall tube
> extending to at
> least the end of the cockpit - sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths.
> I find the whole deal puzzling, as are cabin is still rather breezy.
>
> larry
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#210804
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
Would the tube=2C as described=2C have extractor properties. Seems there wo
uldn't be any extractor properties as long as the large extension tube was
the same diameter for it's entire length=2C thus not creating a venturi eff
ect.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: gary.algate@sandvik.comDate: Wed=2C 29 Oct 2008 11:18:02 +0930Gents b
e careful when modifying the 582 exhaust (especially with extractor type ex
tensions) as they are a timed exhaust system which relies on pressure pulse
s to assist in charging the cylinders with fresh fuel/air mix. If you reduc
e the pressure on the outlet I'm sure that will have an effect on performan
ce. This is not a problem with 4 stroke engines. GaryGary AlgateSMC=2C Expl
orationOffice Phone: +61 8 8276 7655This e-mail is confidential and it is i
ntended only for the addressees. Any review=2C dissemination=2C distributio
n=2C or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the inten
ded recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error=2C k
indly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message f
rom your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omi
ssions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e
-mail transmission.
"Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 29/10/2008 08:23 AM Please
respond tokitfox-list@matronics.com
To
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
RE: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
a look at a Piper Aztec. Yes I know it's a bit like comparing chalkand che
ese but the exhausts they use on the Aztec are called extruders.Basically i
t is an open tube about three times the diameter of the exhaustpipe. That
tube is lined up with the slipstream and the exhaust pipeprojects a few inc
hes into the tube. The idea is the exhaust=2C CO and noiseis enveloped in
a layer of cold air without causing any back pressure. Theysay the Aztec i
s one of the quietest piston planes around the extruders maybe the reason.
The DHC beaver also uses an extruder it makes a pretty good noise but it is
a radial engine so it's supposed to let you know its working!Noel LoveysAME
Intern=2C RPPKitfox III-A=2C Aerocet 1100 floats-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serve
r@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMSent: Tuesday=2C October 28=2C 2008 2:2
5 PMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
ave the same problem. I sealed up my old bungee opening=2C as I have agrov
e gear=2C and it didn't help. I then extended the exhaust pipe. You cango
as long as you want - post muffler. That reduced it=2C but this is nowab
out the 4 or 5 th winter I'm fighting this. We had been opening the dooron
a regular basis to get fresh air. We are not very well sealed eitherCabin
air wise. I am going to try 2 things=2C 1st - I'm going to baffle thepart
of the gear that goes under the fuselage - like a deflector. If thatdoesn
't work=2C I'll extend the exhaust into a thin wall tube extending to atlea
st the end of the cockpit - sort of like the Canadian Tiger Moths. I find t
he whole deal puzzling=2C as are cabin is still rather breezy.larryRead thi
s topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210804#21
0804-- -Matt Dralle=2C List Admin.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
At 07:59 AM 10/29/2008, you wrote:
>Would the tube, as described, have extractor properties. Seems there
>wouldn't be any extractor properties as long as the large extension
>tube was the same diameter for it's entire length, thus not creating
>a venturi effect.
The tubes I've seen on large aircraft serve two purposes: 1)
to decrease noise; and 2) to entrain engine cooling air in the cowl
and encourage it's exhaust, thus increasing the delta-p across the
cylinders and thereby increasing cooling, or reducing inlet size
requirements and thereby reducing drag. (See Speed With Economy by Kent Paser.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
After thinking about it=2C the large pipe opening is obstructed be the smal
ler exhaust pipe so the exhaust end of the large pipe would be significantl
y bigger than the opening. Would this create a venturi effect=2C act as an
extractor and reduce back pressure enough to detrimentally affect cylinder
loading? Anybody try it yet with the 582=2C because the concept sounds good
to me to reduce noise and possible exhaust gas entry to cabin.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
nn@nethere.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabinAt 07:59 AM 10/
29/2008=2C you wrote:
Would the tube=2C as described=2C have extractor properties. Seems there wo
uldn't be any extractor properties as long as the large extension tube was
the same diameter for it's entire length=2C thus not creating a venturi eff
ect. The tubes I've seen on large aircraft serve two purposes: 1) to
decrease noise=3B and 2) to entrain engine cooling air in the cowl and enc
ourage it's exhaust=2C thus increasing the delta-p across the cylinders and
thereby increasing cooling=2C or reducing inlet size requirements and ther
eby reducing drag. (See Speed With Economy by Kent Paser.)
Guy BuchananSan Diego=2C CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done=2C thanks m
ostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: exhaust in cabin |
my exaust leeks at the joint it was cut to fit the cowling (582)- I put
- little trim piece under the cowling to help draw the- fumes out by lo
w pressure vacuum- is works very well. -- is there anyone there that
can re cut and weld a new elbow for- me??
--- On Wed, 10/29/08, patrick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: patrick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
#yiv1487376370 .hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;padding:0px;}
#yiv1487376370 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}
After thinking about it, the large pipe opening is obstructed be the smalle
r exhaust pipe so the exhaust end of the large pipe would be significantly
bigger than the opening.-Would this create-a venturi effect, act as an
extractor and reduce back pressure enough to detrimentally affect cylinder
loading? Anybody try it yet with the 582, because the concept sounds good t
o me to reduce noise and possible-exhaust gas entry to cabin.
-
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL-
From: bnn@nethere.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: exhaust in cabin
At 07:59 AM 10/29/2008, you wrote:
Would the tube, as described, have extractor properties. Seems there wouldn
't be any extractor properties as long as the large extension tube was the
same diameter for it's entire length, thus not creating a venturi effect.
--------The tubes I've seen on large aircraft serve two pur
poses: 1) to decrease noise; and 2) to entrain engine cooling air in the co
wl and encourage it's exhaust, thus increasing the delta-p across the cylin
ders and thereby increasing cooling, or reducing inlet size requirements an
d thereby reducing drag. (See Speed With Economy by Kent Paser.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Emailing: Kitfox Wind Deflector 003, Kitfox Wind Deflector |
014
HERE IS A WIND DEFLECTOR I MADE UP AND INSTALLED IN FRONT
OF MY BUNGEE CORDS THAT STOPPED THE WIND FROM COMING UP
INTO THE COCKPIT COMPLETELY AND
KEPT THE EXHAUST FUMES OUT ALSO. MAKE SURE THE FIREWALL
IS SEALED AND AND THE SIDE PANELS INSIDE ARE SEALED ALSO.
IT WORKED GREAT.
DAVID YEAMANS
Kitfox 4 1200
Rotax 912 UL
Message 7
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| Subject: | RE: exhaust leak, welding repair |
On Wed, October 29, 2008 4:38 pm, Malcolm Brubaker wrote:
> my exaust leeks at the joint it was cut to fit the cowling (582) I put little
trim
> piece under the cowling to help draw the fumes out by low pressure vacuum is
works
> very well. is there anyone there that can re cut and weld a new elbow for me??
If you lived around here, it could be done for you probably for free. There is
a
welder that works at Dan Fast Muffler and Brake repair here that has done some
excellent welding for me in both aluminum and stainless and he did the jobs so
quickly
he declined to charge me. I had a cracked cast aluminum gear case cover that I
was
certain would fail by cracking or warping but he welded it and did it by putting
it
concave side down in about a half inch of water and welded the split in the middle
with a beautiful weld and it did not warp. He has also welded some thinwall 4130
tubing for me using mig and I was really impressed with the quality of those tiny
and
perfect welds. I've had him weld some SS and I was impressed that he even knew
the
correct gas mix for the job besides being able to identify the alloy and selecting
the
correct welding wire.
You might find a muffler shop near you that has a similarly skilled welder with
the
proper equipment to do this job with quality too.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 8
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| Subject: | Kudos to Lightspeed |
Went to the airport to fly my Fox. I have 2 Lightspeed 20XL noise
canceling headsets. They are about five years old. I went to put one of
my headsets on and it came apart in my hand (Adjustment band broke). I
contacted the factory and sent them my headset. It cost me $17.00 to
ship it with $400 insurance. This happened on Thursday. Got my headset
back in four days like brand new. They repaired it and did a diagnostic.
They shipped it UPS Orange. What service!!! Out $17.00, what a deal.
Lightspeed in my opinion is a pretty good company, Jeff KTZR Classic IV
Message 9
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| Subject: | Kudos to Lightspeed |
Unfortunately, I didn't have quite as good an experience with
lightspeed. I have two of them which I bought in about 2003/4. I only
fly about 40 hours per year and my plane (and headsets) are always
hangared. My headsets are both deteriorating badly in terms of the
vinyl or plastic backing applied to the foam head protection and ear
cups. When I asked them about this via email and again at Oshkosh this
year they said it was because of sweat from my head (I am folliclely
challenged). They were happy to sell me new foam parts for about $40+
per headset. Given relatively low usage, good storage conditions and a
not totally unique lack of hair, I believe this is a design fault.
Noting lightspeed's good general reputation, I was disappointed at their
response. I cant be bothered spending the money to repair them right now
and have peeled away as much of the loose coating as I can. Next time
I'll buy an "in the ear" set instead. Tried them at Osh and was really
impressed.
Allan
________________________________
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jeff puls
Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2008 1:12 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kudos to Lightspeed
Went to the airport to fly my Fox. I have 2 Lightspeed 20XL noise
canceling headsets. They are about five years old. I went to put one of
my headsets on and it came apart in my hand (Adjustment band broke). I
contacted the factory and sent them my headset. It cost me $17.00 to
ship it with $400 insurance. This happened on Thursday. Got my headset
back in four days like brand new. They repaired it and did a diagnostic.
They shipped it UPS Orange. What service!!! Out $17.00, what a deal.
Lightspeed in my opinion is a pretty good company, Jeff KTZR Classic IV
Message 10
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My kit came with a small heater core with a computer fan attached to it. Is
it worth the weight? Does it work okay?- The hookups use brass fittings
that weigh a ton. Other safe options?
Charles Cook
N363KF -582
ATL=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cabin heater |
On Wed, October 29, 2008 8:53 pm, charles cook wrote:
> My kit came with a small heater core with a computer fan attached to it. Is it
worth
> the weight? Does it work okay? The hookups use brass fittings that weigh a ton.
Other
> safe options?
A few years ago Lowell posted some pictures of the baffles he made on his oil cooler
and IIRC used scat tube to duct heat in. He's got so much skill making stuff, it
might
be hard to duplicate what he did but it sure looks nicely done. Those photos might
still be in the archives.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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