Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:05 AM - Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Performance mods for 582. (Jose M. Toro)
2. 06:03 AM - 582 Clutch (rawheels)
3. 06:20 AM - Re: Performance mods for 582. (LarryM)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Performance mods for 582. (Bob Brennan)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Performance mods for 582. (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 07:09 AM - Re: 582 Clutch (akflyer)
7. 07:25 AM - More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Perkins, Mike)
8. 07:37 AM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Bob Brennan)
9. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: Performance mods for 582. (Lowell Fitt)
10. 08:25 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] 582 Clutch (Guy Buchanan)
11. 08:25 AM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Guy Buchanan)
12. 11:22 AM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (mikeperkins)
13. 12:14 PM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (akflyer)
14. 01:23 PM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (mikeperkins)
15. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Dave G)
16. 01:59 PM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (akflyer)
17. 02:02 PM - Re: Performance mods for 582. (LarryM)
18. 02:39 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Ron Liebmann)
19. 04:07 PM - Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (akflyer)
20. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Dave G)
21. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Sbennett3@aol.com)
22. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (john taylor)
23. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Lynn Matteson)
24. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Sbennett3@aol.com)
25. 08:28 PM - Re: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 (Lynn Matteson)
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| Subject: | Fund Raiser Lagging Last Year By Over 30%... |
As of the 13th, the Fund Raiser is currently about 30% behind last year in terms
of the number of Contributions. Yet, oddly the number of messages posted per
day is up by 10 to 20% on the average. It costs real money to run these Lists
and they are supported 100% though your Contributions during the Fund Raiser.
Won't you please take a minute right now to make your Contribution to keep
these Lists up and running?
Contribution Page:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Email List Admin.
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
I know this guy, Marcelo Matocq who flew, back in 1998, a 582 powered, sing
le seater-Flighstar from Argentina to Oskosh.- He stayed at my home in
Puerto Rico during his trip.- That historic trip appeared in Ultralight F
lying magazine and EAA Experimeter.- He had no problem with the engine du
ring the trip.- Seems to me like flying "out of the pattern" with a 582 i
s definitely an option.=0A=0AAbout modifying the 582 for performance, I abs
olutely agree with Bradley, that's the last thing I'd want to do.- You wi
ll sacrify reliability for performance.=0A=0AJose=0AEx KF II/582 (never had
a problem with the engine in 10 years)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0AFrom: Bradley Webb bmwebb@cox.net=0A-I don't trust the 582'
s at all. I guess it's ok for very local putzing around,=0Abut I wouldn't g
o anywhere with it.=0A=0AGo where you want, but mod'ing the 582 is the LAST
thing I'd want to do. =0AMy .02=0ABradley=0A=0A-----Original Message-----
=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tjmxer=0ASent: Thursday, November 13, 2
008 7:37 PM=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Per
mxer@hotmail.com>=0A=0ACome on. Is the 582 really that bad? Is the 912 that
much better?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214021#214021=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
========0A=0A=0A
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Where is a good place to purchase a clutch assy for the 582 C-Box? I've seen RK-400's
listed online and a R5000 (whatever that is) at LEAF for around $500.
Wondering which is better, and if they include everything needed to make the
conversion.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214168#214168
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
When is the last time you saw any engine go beyond its TBO without work done to
it? The 582 has a low TBO in part due to the anticipated low usage and associated
problems resulting from that. I know of a guy on the Avid group list who
has over 600 hrs on each of his 582s. They were both running fine when he tore
them down for a look. He did find some main bearing cage wear, and and now
recommends that perhaps between 300 and 600 would be prudent. Even Rotax admits
that the 300hr TBO is conservative. (someone mentioned liability earlier).
How many certified engines go over 500 hrs with no cylinder work, etc? Talk
to the guys who fly their 582's, and know them. For the performance/price/reliability
factors I plan to replace mine with another if/when that time comes.
IMO the problems with the 582 are mostly related to operator or lack of operation.
When I first got my airplane, engine replacement is what was on my mind
for the 1st yr. This was all due to my prejudiced thoughts of poor reliability.
Six years latter I have the same engine with very little work (no failures)
done/needed. (You realize that I've just doomed myself!)
larry
Avid -582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214173#214173
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
I'll jump in for a little doom myself, and hopefully add to the list of real
facts rather than just opinions.
My KFII has been flying since 1991 with the same 582, with over 800
accumulated hours. I am the 5th owner and have flown it for nearly 100 hours
myself, with nearly 2 years of "down time" due to problems importing it from
the UK and the FAA. The 582 had a complete rebuild at a little under 600
hours and had 125 hours on it when I bought it. The logbooks do not have a
single instance of repair needed since new (other than maintenance items of
course), and the Brits are pretty strict about recording anything and
everything.
I have recently obtained my LSA Repairman's Certificate and between that new
knowledge and this list I am checking into everything I can on both the
engine and airframe, both for safety sake and with my new certificate
because I *can*, legally ;-)
I have found/repaired very little other than brakes, door lifter tubes,
crazed Lexan windscreen, and some paintwork that the FAA insisted on; all
fixed with the amazing help of the Kitfoxers on this list. Nothing to do
with the 582 as yet other than concerns over ethanol in the mogas I use.
Not to be long-winded (too late!), my opinion and facts, my 2 pence - my 582
is reliable and efficient and if anything a bit over-powered for my very
light model II. But hey, you can't have too much money, or sex, or thrust
right?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: 14 November 2008 9:20 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Performance mods for 582.
When is the last time you saw any engine go beyond its TBO without work done
to it? The 582 has a low TBO in part due to the anticipated low usage and
associated problems resulting from that. I know of a guy on the Avid group
list who has over 600 hrs on each of his 582s. They were both running fine
when he tore them down for a look. He did find some main bearing cage wear,
and and now recommends that perhaps between 300 and 600 would be prudent.
Even Rotax admits that the 300hr TBO is conservative. (someone mentioned
liability earlier). How many certified engines go over 500 hrs with no
cylinder work, etc? Talk to the guys who fly their 582's, and know them.
For the performance/price/reliability factors I plan to replace mine with
another if/when that time comes. IMO the problems with the 582 are mostly
related to operator or lack of operation. When I first got my airplane,
engine replacement is what was on my mind for the 1st yr. This was all due
to my prejudic!
ed thoughts of poor reliability. Six years latter I have the same engine
with very little work (no failures) done/needed. (You realize that I've
just doomed myself!)
larry
Avid -582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214173#214173
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
Gary and Leonard
Thank you for the info on the 582's. I thought both you guys did a great
job on the pro's and cons. I have a great interest in engines and had a two
stroke in my 1962 SAAB a while back(a long while !) I loved that car and stupid
me
I traded it for a Renault Dauphine (which I soon got rid of ) I added a quart
of oil at each gas fill to the SAAB.Super car and I sure would like to have
another one
I have a 912UL in my Fox 4 and it runs great and I think I have the minor
bugs worked out but I still do not like flying over any water with it ! (ie:
Mobile Bay last weekend) Would I fly it to my cabin in NC about 450 miles away
-no. I guess it is just a gut feeling (after three engine failures in other
aircraft-one going straight up at 200ft agl) Any way ,I digress.
I have toyed with another project but have always disregarded the two
strokes as unreliable. Now I am not so sure. Lockwood has a good two stroke school
.
Maybe I will go just to learn more about them. Thanks guys!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Get movies delivered to your mailbox. One month free from
blockbuster.com
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I have an RK 400 I think it was 525 or something like that. comes with all you
need to bolt it on. It only takes about an hour to do the swap if you are mechanically
inclined and can read simple directions.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214186#214186
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| Subject: | More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
I have a paper copy of a report from Denmark published in 1991
concerning 2-cycle aircraft engine reliability, including the 503, 532,
and 582. The report was a summary of a study done by Denmark's
equivalent of our FAA and contained plain clear facts, not that usual
whitewashed stuff we're used to getting from our FAA. The study was
initiated because of the high number of 2-cycle-related U/L accidents in
Denmark. In the next few days, I'll scan it. Anyone wishing a copy of
this report can request an electronic copy by sending an email to
flybyewire@gmail.com .
Mike Perkins
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| Subject: | More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
I'll take a copy please Mike, and thanks for doing this. Presumably there
have been mods to the 582 since the report was published and the models in
question pre-dated 1991 by several years, so we should take the results in
light of any improvements(?) It should be an interesting read regardless.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perkins, Mike
Sent: 14 November 2008 10:25 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for
582
I have a paper copy of a report from Denmark published in 1991 concerning
2-cycle aircraft engine reliability, including the 503, 532, and 582. The
report was a summary of a study done by Denmark's equivalent of our FAA and
contained plain clear facts, not that usual whitewashed stuff we're used to
getting from our FAA. The study was initiated because of the high number of
2-cycle-related U/L accidents in Denmark. In the next few days, I'll scan
it. Anyone wishing a copy of this report can request an electronic copy by
sending an email to flybyewire@gmail.com .
Mike Perkins
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
I have never owned a 582, but the group I flew with for five years had one
582 in the flight of 6. These flights were to the back country of Idaho
with incursions into Montana to the east and Washingrton west and once into
Canada - oops. In other words there was nothing off limits. The goal was
to land at as many remote airstrips as possible over the years.
These are my observations: Every fuel stop the cowl was off. Presumably to
check the oil level. When possible, we flew along highways and the 582 guy
didn't cut the corners as we sometimes did. Often we were over extremely
rugged terrain and the 912 guys could outclimb the 582 and we would often
watch him catch the ridge lifts and guide him as he climbed through the
canyons. Coyote Creek, Moos Creek, Fish Lake, Smiley Creek (7100 ft.),
Stanley, Dixie Town, Sulfur Creek, Elk River, Cavanaugh Bay, Sullivan Lake,
Westfork, and ten more and this was the 2002 trip. The 582 performed
flawlessly. In my opinion, it is a fine engine. My understanding is that
it takes a bit more care and attention, but if a person is willing to do
that, I don't see a problem.
I have good friends who won't fly in light planes, a family member that
won't fly in any airplane, Period - she won't cook with a microwave oven
either. There is something scary about both, so someone who won't fly behind
a 582 is not unusual in my experience. To each his own, I guess.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Build
Currently focusing on the Left Wing, Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing Gear
Fairing
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryM" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:19 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Performance mods for 582.
>
> When is the last time you saw any engine go beyond its TBO without work
> done to it? The 582 has a low TBO in part due to the anticipated low
> usage and associated problems resulting from that. I know of a guy on the
> Avid group list who has over 600 hrs on each of his 582s. They were both
> running fine when he tore them down for a look. He did find some main
> bearing cage wear, and and now recommends that perhaps between 300 and 600
> would be prudent. Even Rotax admits that the 300hr TBO is conservative.
> (someone mentioned liability earlier). How many certified engines go over
> 500 hrs with no cylinder work, etc? Talk to the guys who fly their 582's,
> and know them. For the performance/price/reliability factors I plan to
> replace mine with another if/when that time comes. IMO the problems with
> the 582 are mostly related to operator or lack of operation. When I first
> got my airplane, engine replacement is what was on my mind for the 1st yr.
> This was all due to my prejudic!
> ed thoughts of poor reliability. Six years latter I have the same engine
> with very little work (no failures) done/needed. (You realize that I've
> just doomed myself!)
>
> larry
> Avid -582
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214173#214173
>
>
>
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At 06:02 AM 11/14/2008, you wrote:
>Where is a good place to purchase a clutch assy for the 582
>C-Box? I've seen RK-400's listed online and a R5000 (whatever that
>is) at LEAF for around $500. Wondering which is better, and if they
>include everything needed to make the conversion.
Ryan,
I've never heard of an R5000. Is it new? The RK400 is,
I believe, made by these guys: www.air-techinc.com. There you will
find it and parts and some support. The only problem I have with it,
is that no-one, including the manufacturer, with whom I've spoken,
seems to know the TBO. And there is no way to observe a wear limit
other than to occasionally disassemble the clutch. It's something I'm
still working on.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
At 07:24 AM 11/14/2008, you wrote:
>I have a paper copy of a report from Denmark published in 1991
>concerning 2-cycle aircraft engine reliability, including the 503,
>532, and 582. The report was a summary of a study done by Denmark's
>equivalent of our FAA and contained plain clear facts, not that
>usual whitewashed stuff we're used to getting from our FAA. The
>study was initiated because of the high number of 2-cycle-related
>U/L accidents in Denmark.
Yes, a lot has changed since 1991. For the 582, the ignition
system, charge system, crankshaft, pin end bearings, and cooling
system were upgraded. It became understood that you couldn't run the
water temp over 180F, and EGT's over 1200. Digital engine monitors
came on line to help assure you stay within limits. They discovered
that if silicate-free coolant was used the rotary valve seal would
last to TBO. Finally, the community migrated from the devil-may-care
days of ultra-lighting to more conservative use in larger aircraft.
Fortunately guys like Mike Stratman at CPS documented their
ultra-light experience extensively, making it much simpler now to
operate and diagnose any Rotax 2-stroke. For the 582 the hard work
has been done, work that Lynn and others are presently doing for the
Jabiru, and which to some extent is still going on for the 912. (Note
that I'm not slamming either engine, just making an observation. I
will probably be switching to the 912 eventually, because I want more
climb in the hot / high / and heavy conditions in which I frequently fly.)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
When you take a look at the report, you may be able to judge for yourself if Rotax
addressed any of the issue. A person might determine that many of the accidents
and incidents could be traced to engine installation, engine maintenance,
and engine/pilot procedures. In my mind, there is an interesting correlation
between the high stoppage/accident rates and fact that Rotax manuals didn't
specify engine use procedures, i.e. warm-up requirements, and they didn't specify
explicit maintenance procedures, i.e. mandatory engine tear-down and inspection
after an engine seizure for any reason. There was also a Finnish report
in 1992 (of significantly less depth than the Danish report) and there was some
reporting also done by Kitplanes in 1991-2. Notice that the two countries that
produced reports have rather chilly climates throughout their entire countries,
if that's any sort of a clue. As a technical counselor I've given presentations
to EAA groups about Rotax engines. So of course I've drawn my own conclusions
(based on the reported data and other sources), but I'd like to hear your
conclusions after you read the report. - Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214232#214232
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
I would like to see the report also.
I would have to say that you are not entirely accurate on the manufacture not giving
specific instructions on tear down or maintenance schedule. If a person
does not have the intellect to determine that the jug needs to be pulled when
they squeak a piston, then they do not have the required decision making skill
necessary to keep them alive in the cockpit. I say those need to be weeded
out and given a Darwin award...
The rotax installation, maintenance, operation and rebuild manuals give you all
the information you need to keep it alive and happy. Should you choose not to
read the manuals, or perform required maintenance or checks then a Darwin award
in probably in your near future.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214241#214241
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
Leonard,
It sounds like you are already be an expert in caring for a 2-cycle. But I imagine
there may be a number of people who aren't. A pilot of a type-certificated
aircraft can get engine help and advice at nearly any FBO. But the same isn't
true of aircraft with 2-cycle engines. Please feel free to hand out Darwin awards
if you wish. In the meantime, I'm interested in helping others who wish to
learn more about their engines.
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214247#214247
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
The same can be said of the 912 and to some extent the Jabiru. While it
would be silly to argue the succes of the 912, most FBO's do not regard it
as a mainline aircraft engine and cannot offer any advice. The 582 has an
enviable record of reliability when operated properly. It takes a little
education, but then again so did flying.
I think those who sneer at two strokes need to remember that in the eyes of
the general aviation community, Kitfoxes are mere toys, not aircraft. You
feel that's not true or fair I expect. So perhaps for those flying 912's it
might be better to accept that the 582 is just another engine and lay off.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "mikeperkins" <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods
for 582
> <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
>
> Leonard,
> It sounds like you are already be an expert in caring for a 2-cycle. But I
> imagine there may be a number of people who aren't. A pilot of a
> type-certificated aircraft can get engine help and advice at nearly any
> FBO. But the same isn't true of aircraft with 2-cycle engines. Please feel
> free to hand out Darwin awards if you wish. In the meantime, I'm
> interested in helping others who wish to learn more about their engines.
> Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214247#214247
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
http://www.800-airwolf.com/articles.htm
Here you will find dang near everything you need to know about the rotax 2 strokes.
My point made above is that the information is out there, rotax has manuals for
the motors that take you from installation, to running to maintenance, to re-building
and all points in between. This info is readily available for downloading
or for a few bucks you can buy it. For 500 bucks you can go to the repairmans
course and get your hands dirty. With all these resources available, if
a person chooses to ignore them and strike out on his own without learning his
motor inside and out, and how to keep it alive, then he or she runs a high
risk of earning the not so coveted Darwin award.
You point out that the "typical" driver can get help at any FBO for a "normal"
engine. Your right, but if you are flying something unique like a 2 stoke, it
is your duty to know all you can about your engine and not have to rely on others
just as it is your duty to know about the airport you are planning to fly
into.
Articles written in the late 80's or early 90's or data compiled from that time
frame should not be taken as gospel. Rotax knew they had issues hence the mod
99 582. Allot of the 2 strokes have gotten a bad wrap from the early pioneers
who would make a hardware store run, come home with conduit and bolt something
resembling an ultralight together then go find a salvage snowmachine and bolt
that POS engine in the nose and hope for the best. Some were lucky some were
not so lucky.
I have seen allot of guys pull partial power and start a long decent. This is
a sure fire way to get the EGTs to shoot through the roof and make slag out of
your pistons. This is also addressed in the Rotax manual. I see guys asking
about jetting... this is addressed in the manual as well. When do you need to
change jets, well look at the temp chart. check outside temps, cross reference
the chart and jet away. Most places, you can get by with 2 sets of jets due
to temps.
It is not my intention to belittle anyone as I am well aware not everyone grew
up running 2 strokes, but I see alot of guys giving opinions, not facts about
2 strokes that are not warranted and often lead others to make bad choices.
Just for giggles, how many service bulletins have come out on the 912 from Rotax.
This highly coveted engine is not immune to issues that will also leave you
in a tight spot so the direct answer is not to just say 2 strokes are the only
engines prone to failure, there for, bolt a 4 stroke in the nose and you will
never have to worry about a dead stick again. I bet Lowell could shed some
light on that one......
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214249#214249
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
Any, any mechanical thing [u]will, fail, it's just of matter or when or where
you are at the time. I always fly prepared for when it fail, whether it be 2
stroke, or 4, or jet engine - they will all fail.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214254#214254
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
Seems to me that Mr. Perry is a true know-it-all. But, then again he may be
a newby to the 582/aircraft use time. I can say 100% that when I got my 582
in August of 1990, it came with NO manuals, no warnings, nada! I had been
flying for 32 years behind Continentals, Lycombings and Franklins without
even a burp. So, you have branded me and all the very early Kitfox owners as
deserving the Darwin Award. How generous of you, Mr. Perry. I have a strong
feeling that you have passed out many of these awards in your lifetime. When
one is 100% up to speed on aircraft 4 strokes and then purchases a 582,
there are things to learn. Back in the 80's & early 90's we learned on our
own. When I called Rotax in Canada about a problem I was having, I was told
by them to find a repair guy somewhere in the states and ask them my
questions.
I suggest that Mr. Perry learn some diplomacy if he wishes to earn any
respect on this list.
DO NOT ARCHIVE Sign me "offended" Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 2:14 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods
for 582
>
> I would like to see the report also.
>
> I would have to say that you are not entirely accurate on the manufacture
> not giving specific instructions on tear down or maintenance schedule. If
> a person does not have the intellect to determine that the jug needs to be
> pulled when they squeak a piston, then they do not have the required
> decision making skill necessary to keep them alive in the cockpit. I say
> those need to be weeded out and given a Darwin award...
>
> The rotax installation, maintenance, operation and rebuild manuals give
> you all the information you need to keep it alive and happy. Should you
> choose not to read the manuals, or perform required maintenance or checks
> then a Darwin award in probably in your near future.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214241#214241
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582 |
Sorry to have offended you. I don't pretend to "know it all" about 2 strokes,
but I do know where to look for information. I have seen countless times people
replying to a question with "do a search on the list as this has been hashed
over many times" ( and it pi$$es me off as someone was just asking a question).
I simply stated that all this information is out there and is readily available
through a simple google search or by using any other search engine, I
even provided a link to help one out) and that if you choose not to learn what
is available, then perhaps the light bulb is not burning at full rated intensity.
Rotax now has manuals out, and they can be downloaded from MANY online sites.
I myself should have been handed a darwin award many times, I am not exempt from
this dubious catagory.
Again, sorry to have offended anyone without a sense of humor. It was not my intention.
I will keep my mouth shut and fingers off the key board on this subject from now
on.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214281#214281
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods
for 582
>
> I will keep my mouth shut and fingers off the key board on this subject
> from now on.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Please don't. I don't always agree with everything I see here but the 582
discussion interests me greatly. There is a vast difference between a
posting that happens to offend and one that sets out to and it's generally
obvious. If someone chooses to be offended when it was not intended, it
usually shows. I enjoy and am very interested in the experiences of people
who actually fly 582's.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
I love my 912. I changed the oil and antifreeze today. It took me 45
minutes. When I change the oil I always crack the safety off the gascolator and
check for sed... 980 hrs on the hobbs... I had a flat tire last week, so I bolted
that up today also. Hey guys, 90% of us fly our little birds with rotax
engines... Can't we all play on the same team???
Steve Bennett classic4/1200 NC do not archive
In a message dated 11/14/2008 7:40:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
occom@ns.sympatico.ca writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Dave G" <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:06 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods
for 582
>
> I will keep my mouth shut and fingers off the key board on this subject
> from now on.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Please don't. I don't always agree with everything I see here but the 582
discussion interests me greatly. There is a vast difference between a
posting that happens to offend and one that sets out to and it's generally
obvious. If someone chooses to be offended when it was not intended, it
usually shows. I enjoy and am very interested in the experiences of people
who actually fly 582's.
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
come on, guys; dont stop over a lil disagreement. i've read-many posts fr
om both of u & have found u to be very, experienced, knowledgeable, & passi
onate about aviating in-these homebuilts. for me, who-still has to make
a decision on an engine for my avid+ (airdale), ur posts are invaluable. t
hanks for taking the time & effort to share with us. lookin forward to more
from u all, john bowman, prairieville, la.--=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________
_____________________=0AFrom: Dave G <occom@ns.sympatico.ca>=0ATo: kitfox-l
ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, November 14, 2008 6:38:39 PM=0ASubject: R
e: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for 582
=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.c
om>=0ATo: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:0
6 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance
mods for 582=0A=0A=0A> =0A> I will keep my mouth shut and fingers off the
key board on this subject from now on.=0A> =0A> --------=0A> DO NOT ARCHIVE
=0A=0APlease don't. I don't always agree with everything I see here but the
582 discussion interests me greatly. There is a vast difference between-
a posting that happens to offend and one that sets out to and it's general
ly obvious. If someone chooses to be offended when it was not intended, it
usually shows. I enjoy and am very interested in the experiences of people
===========0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
And if you can't get along with fellow Rotax drivers, come on over to
the Jabiru camp. We don't have the numbers...yet...but we've got all
4-strokes, so no gripes in that department.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
do not archive
On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> I love my 912. I changed the oil and antifreeze today. It took me
> 45 minutes. When I change the oil I always crack the safety off the
> gascolator and check for sed... 980 hrs on the hobbs... I had a
> flat tire last week, so I bolted that up today also. Hey guys, 90%
> of us fly our little birds with rotax engines... Can't we all play
> on the same team???
> Steve Bennett classic4/1200 NC do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
Come on Lynn... I remember a forced landing and rebuild just a couple months
back so don't let us rotax guys aim our guns at you... :-) Steve Bennett
Do not archive
In a message dated 11/14/2008 9:35:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
And if you can't get along with fellow Rotax drivers, come on over to
the Jabiru camp. We don't have the numbers...yet...but we've got all
4-strokes, so no gripes in that department.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
do not archive
On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> I love my 912. I changed the oil and antifreeze today. It took me
> 45 minutes. When I change the oil I always crack the safety off the
> gascolator and check for sed... 980 hrs on the hobbs... I had a
> flat tire last week, so I bolted that up today also. Hey guys, 90%
> of us fly our little birds with rotax engines... Can't we all play
> on the same team???
> Steve Bennett classic4/1200 NC do not archive
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: More on 2-cyle reliability - - Performance mods for |
582
I'm not saying that didn't happen....just that honestly prevails (at
least in my section of the camp), and it seems like when we are
sticking up for "our brand" sometimes we overlook the failures and
brag about the victories. Hell, for several weeks there, after the
"engine out", you couldn't get me to mention my brand, let alone brag
about it. But failures do happen, and if we're gonna fly, we'd better
learn to live with that fact. Now if I have a second outage, I may
have to rethink my choice, but it will never be a 2-stroke, and never
be a high-revving engine. I just don't like the high revs.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system
do not archive
On Nov 14, 2008, at 9:51 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> Come on Lynn... I remember a forced landing and rebuild just a
> couple months back so don't let us rotax guys aim our guns at
> you... :-) Steve Bennett
> Do not archive
>
> In a message dated 11/14/2008 9:35:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
>
> And if you can't get along with fellow Rotax drivers, come on over to
> the Jabiru camp. We don't have the numbers...yet...but we've got all
> 4-strokes, so no gripes in that department.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 587hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system
> do not archive
>
>
> On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:39 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
>
> > I love my 912. I changed the oil and antifreeze today. It took me
> > 45 minutes. When I change the oil I always crack the safety off the
> > gascolator and check for sed... 980 hrs on the hobbs... I had a
> > flat tire last week, so I bolted that up today also. Hey guys, 90%
> > of us fly our little birds with rotax engines... Can't we all play
> > on the same team???
> > Steve Bennett classic4/1200 NC do not sp; (And Get
> Some AWESOME FREE find you for -Matt Dralle,
> List he es y - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS
> ========================
>
>
> Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!
> ===========================================================
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