---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/18/08: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:20 AM - What Members Are Saying... (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:24 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (JetPilot) 2. 03:25 AM - Re: 582 Clutch (rawheels) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: electrionic problems (Catz631@aol.com) 4. 05:23 AM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Catz631@AOL.COM) 5. 05:51 AM - RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Michel Verheughe) 6. 06:31 AM - VG tape (Catz631@aol.com) 7. 07:17 AM - Re: Windshield fit (Jack L Bell) 8. 09:24 AM - Re: Windshield fit (darinh) 9. 09:32 AM - Series 7 - Known V-Speeds? (darinh) 10. 09:44 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 11. 09:58 AM - Re: electrionic problems (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 12. 10:03 AM - Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Lynn Matteson) 13. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (Lynn Matteson) 14. 10:13 AM - Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Michael Gibbs) 15. 10:15 AM - RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Michel Verheughe) 16. 10:19 AM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 17. 10:19 AM - Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (JetPilot) 18. 10:26 AM - Re: Windshield fit (JetPilot) 19. 10:28 AM - Re: Windshield fit (JetPilot) 20. 10:32 AM - Re: VG tape (JetPilot) 21. 10:37 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Lynn Matteson) 22. 10:38 AM - Re: electrionic problems (JetPilot) 23. 10:39 AM - Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Lynn Matteson) 24. 10:41 AM - Re: Windshield fit (darinh) 25. 10:47 AM - Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Lynn Matteson) 26. 11:00 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (patrick reilly) 27. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (patrick reilly) 28. 11:31 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (patrick reilly) 29. 11:36 AM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 30. 12:03 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 31. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (Marco Menezes) 32. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (Rueb, Duane) 33. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (Lynn Matteson) 34. 02:46 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (akflyer) 35. 02:47 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 36. 02:55 PM - 100 mph tape - was Windshield fit (Marco Menezes) 37. 03:00 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Lynn Matteson) 38. 03:09 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (patrick reilly) 39. 03:33 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Lynn Matteson) 40. 03:45 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Lynn Matteson) 41. 03:58 PM - A Fun Flight (Guy Buchanan) 42. 04:32 PM - Re: Mod 3 Rebuild (Guy Buchanan) 43. 04:44 PM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (LarryM) 44. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Guy Buchanan) 45. 06:35 PM - Re: A Fun Flight (Tom Jones) 46. 06:48 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Lynn Matteson) 47. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Lynn Matteson) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:00 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: What Members Are Saying... Dear Listers, November is the Annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are supported solely through your generous Contributions during this time. Please make your Contribution today and pick up a really nice free gift at this same time: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Listers have been including some really nice comments regarding what the Lists mean to them along with their Contributions this year. I've included a few of them below. Please read them over and see if some perhaps echo your feelings as well. Thank you for your support this year! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Best bargain in the entire industry!! -Owen B Every year your lists are better, sure #1 in e-mail list in the world. -Gary G Thank you for an awesome site! -Ashley M Your lists are important to me and well worth paying for. -Calvin A Thank you for providing such and informative and ad free environment to learn by. -Myron H As always, a valuable and extremely useful resource. Stephen T As always, a great service. -Reade G Very much appreciate this site and the communications it has enabled between builders. -Larry M This service is worth every penny. -Robert S Great site! Thanks a ton for its functionality! -Peter B The RV-10 list feels like my community. -Dave S The lists are fantastic, a great source! -Jimmy Y I've learned a lot from the List. -Gabriel F A wonderful resource. -Gerald G Well done. -Richard N Years of good service. -William M Valuable service. -Keith H The site is quite helpful. -Jon M Very interesting List that I read form the beginning. -Alain L A well managed site. -Carl B Great service. -Svein Kare J Still the most useful program on the computer. -Fergus K Great contribution to my project! -Robert K Thanks for keeping a great list. -Dt G The List continues to provide excellent information. -Tony C This is a wonderful resource that has easily saved me a bunch on my build-time. -Ralph C Thank you for providing a great service. The Zenith builder's community would be in sad shape without the Zenith-List's. -Terrence P I really do get pleasure out of reading the List every day. -Bill V Great source of information. -Arthur V Thanks for a great service. Very enjoyable. -Louis B You know we all could not do without your support!! -James S Great resource! -Douglas D Thanks for the great service. -John B ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:42 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod 3 Rebuild From: "JetPilot" I like the colors, same colors I am going to use ! Why did you have to rebuild the plane ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214928#214928 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:25:16 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Clutch From: "rawheels" Here is the reply from LEAF about the R5000, FYI: > Thank you for your inquiry. There is no difference - they are exactly the same. R5000 is our part number for the RK-400 clutch. If you require additional information, please feel free to contact our office. Thank you. > > Pam Armes > Customer Service Supervisor > Leading Edge Air Foils, LLC -------- Ryan Wheeler Kitfox IV-1200 Indianapolis, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214929#214929 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:36 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: electrionic problems Same thing happened to me about a month ago. Mine would quit on the left mag during the mag check. After hunting it down for a month ( p leads, ignition switch,etc) it also ended up being a break in the red power wire to the module. It was located about two inches from the connection at the module in a perfectly flat run. I found it using a scribe as a probe to punch thru the wire sheathing and an ohmmeter working my way down the wire. It certainly wasn't obvious. Dick Maddux Fox 4, 912UL Pensacola, Fl **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:25 AM PST US From: Catz631@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. Mike, I don't want to go across a large body of water in a Kitfox with either engine ! More engines are better. Dick Maddux Fox 4 912UL Pensacola,Fl **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:07 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. > From: Catz631@aol.com > I don't want to go across a large body of water in a Kitfox with either > engine ! More engines are better. But then, what is a large body of water? More than a glide to the nearest shore? If I was to do that, I wouldn't be able to leave Scandinavia. What I do (did?) when I cross a body of water is to set the engine at a nice cruise RPM and ... don't touch the throttle until I am on the other side. Maybe it is silly but I feel that not much can happen to the engine when it is nicely reeving at a constant RPM and flying at a constant speed at level. ... Am I fooling myself? Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:45 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: VG tape I have decided to put VG's on my horizontal stab and my wing. I know that their use on my 4 will probably be dubious but I have run out of projects and have some on hand so why not. I like the looks of a "prickly pear" and besides they worked great on my Pacer. (which I know has no bearing on the Kitfox) Anyway, I would like to use tape vs glue to fasten them. Someone mentioned 3 M tape awhile back but I don't remember which it was. I would assume it is one of their VHB (very high bond) tapes. Any ideas? Thanks! Dick Maddux Fox 4-1200 Pensacola,Fl **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:57 AM PST US From: Jack L Bell Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot) A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then.. OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas. .... I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't) and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door- even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold. Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff. Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off, or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already lined up with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final destination. checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned back for home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again. -Jack >Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward. I >think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape >covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but I >too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it >yet. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:02 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit From: "darinh" Rick, I just completed my fairing (fiberglass) and they are much better than the metal fairings. I used the brown packaging tape (comes off very easily and doesn't leave the adhesive behind) and oil-based modeling clay to gt a good form. the glass is simply layed up over the tape and clay. Once it is cured, it can be removed easily using a rubber scraper under the corners. The clay will somewhat adhere to the epoxy but you can scrape most off using a spoon or butter knife and then clean the rest off with mineral spirits or wax remover. The exterior will need a few light coats of filler (unless you are a professional clay sculptor) to smooth it out and fill any pinholes...then a coat or two of primer and topcoat. I also used some thin rubber U-channel from Aircraftspruce and 1/16" neoprene tape to seal the edges. I will get some pics if I remember next time I am at the hanger. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214985#214985 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:32:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Series 7 - Known V-Speeds? From: "darinh" I am basically done with my phase 1 testing and am updating my Dynon with my V-Speeds. Does anyone know what the set V-speeds for the series 7 are...the ones based on the structure not on the actual flight testing? Va -? Vfe -? Vno -? I know Vne is 140 mph -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214986#214986 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Mon, November 17, 2008 8:20 pm, patrick reilly wrote: > > Kitfoxers, Finally learned how to attach pictures. Here's my rebuild project after > painting fuselage. Very nice design. I like it! Looks like it was about to snow in that outside photo, at least you're getting some streaking that makes it look pretty cold out. Did you make any mistakes? I'd sure like to hear some points on avoiding problems. Looks like a lot of masking had to be done. You probably have developed some techniques. Especially masking in a curved pattern on a plane. > > Pat reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: electrionic problems From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Tue, November 18, 2008 5:11 am, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > I found it using a scribe as a probe to punch thru the wire > sheathing and an ohmmeter working my way down the wire. It certainly wasn't obvious. What is the proper fix for this problem? Different type wire, or relocating components to reduce vibration loads? I have a 914 which I'm mounting now. -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:11 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. In a word....YES! In several words, any engine, at any time, can scatter itself or at the least start bogging down and lose power no matter what manipulations to the throttle setting you are doing or not doing. In short, "when it's time, it's time." Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 8:49 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >> From: Catz631@aol.com >> I don't want to go across a large body of water in a Kitfox with >> either >> engine ! More engines are better. > > But then, what is a large body of water? More than a glide to the > nearest shore? If I was to do that, I wouldn't be able to leave > Scandinavia. > > What I do (did?) when I cross a body of water is to set the engine > at a nice cruise RPM and ... don't touch the throttle until I am on > the other side. Maybe it is silly but I feel that not much can > happen to the engine when it is nicely reeving at a constant RPM > and flying at a constant speed at level. > ... Am I fooling myself? > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded > > > 

>
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________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm not kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until Spring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep people from calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard time getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it is tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is, whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony Stewart orange which almost matches my plane's orange...close enough for most purposes. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote: > > > This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox > Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot) > > A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then.. > OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas. > > .... > I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't) > and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door- > even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold. > Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater > was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the > air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff. > > Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A > piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in > the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber > for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still > running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off, > or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already > lined up > with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final > destination. > checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally > isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin > through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned > back for > home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again. > > -Jack > >> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more >> forward. I >> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape >> covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, >> but I >> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it >> yet. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:35 AM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. I'm sure you are right, Lynn, but I feel the same psychological effect that Michel describes: it seems the engine is less likely to fail if I'm not messing with it! :-) Mike G. N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster Phoenix, AZ On Nov 18, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > In a word....YES! > > In several words, any engine, at any time, can scatter itself or at > the least start bogging down and lose power no matter what > manipulations to the throttle setting you are doing or not doing. In > short, "when it's time, it's time." > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, 591hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition > system > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 8:49 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > >>> From: Catz631@aol.com >>> I don't want to go across a large body of water in a Kitfox with >>> either >>> engine ! More engines are better. >> >> But then, what is a large body of water? More than a glide to the >> nearest shore? If I was to do that, I wouldn't be able to leave >> Scandinavia. >> >> What I do (did?) when I cross a body of water is to set the engine >> at a nice cruise RPM and ... don't touch the throttle until I am on >> the other side. Maybe it is silly but I feel that not much can >> happen to the engine when it is nicely reeving at a constant RPM >> and flying at a constant speed at level. >> ... Am I fooling myself? >> >> Cheers, >> Michel Verheughe >> Norway >> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded >> >> >> 

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> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:01 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > In short, "when it's time, it's time." ... and what if, at the same time, I hold my breath, cross my fingers, touch my lucky four-leave clover, ... Okay, I get the idea, Lynn. But you will surely agree that when flying over a long stretch of open water, it is probably best to leave the throttle in peace, right? Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Tue, November 18, 2008 5:21 am, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > ....More engines are better. You know the old answer to the the question; 'Why two engines?' - The second one is to get you to the scene of the accident. I just read an NTSB accident report where a twin Comanche lost power just after take-off and the pilot put it down in the trees. A hundred hour had just been completed and all the spark plugs were changed. Wrong plugs and burned a bunch of pistons as a result in both engines. I've heard it said that having two engines makes it twice as likely to have an engine failure! Personally, I think multi-engine aircraft are chosen because of their higher useful loads and higher cruise speeds. If there is a perceived or real safety difference, that's icing on the cake. You certainly have your hands full with an engine out on a twin, especially in IMC and that is aggrevated if you're above the single engine service ceiling. -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:19:40 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. From: "JetPilot" I'm with you on that one, if I am flying over unlandable terrain, I set the throttle where the engine seems stable and happiest, and don't touch a thing until safely on the other side. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215004#215004 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:36 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit From: "JetPilot" darinh wrote: > Rick, > > I just completed my fairings (fiberglass) and they are much better than the metal fairings. I used the brown packaging tape (comes off very easily and doesn't leave the adhesive behind) and oil-based modeling clay to get a good form. the glass is simply layed up over the tape and clay. Once it is cured, it can be removed easily using a rubber scraper under the corners. The clay will somewhat adhere to the epoxy but you can scrape most off using a spoon or butter knife and then clean the rest off with mineral spirits or wax remover. The exterior will need a few light coats of filler (unless you are a professional clay sculptor) to smooth it out and fill any pinholes...then a coat or two of primer, wet sand, and topcoat. I also used some thin rubber U-channel from Aircraftspruce and 1/16" neoprene tape to seal the edges. I will get some pics if I remember next time I am at the hanger. Darin, I am not clear on how you laid up the fiberglass, did you put it directly into the clay, or over the top ( Female or Male mold ? ) Since you formed fiberglass directly over the clay, what was the brown tape for ??? Did you form the clay over the windshield to get the mold shape ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215007#215007 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:15 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit From: "JetPilot" BTW, if it was me, I would get a heat gun, practice on some scraps of that window material, and then melt that window to fit the plane correctly. Yes it is a risk, but I would want a perfect fitting window, and just buy another one if things go horribly wrong. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215008#215008 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:46 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VG tape From: "JetPilot" Dick, I "Temporarily" mounted VG's to my Kolb over a year ago with 3M automobile trim tape, and have not lost a one. The VG's did miracles for my Kolb, the difference was nothing short of incredible, so they are staying just like they are, tape and all. Mike sure you get the angles and positioning perfect, its critical to get optimum results out of VG's. I have no idea how well VG's will work on a Kitfox, but I will be finding out one day :) Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215010#215010 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:59 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild When doing curved patterns, I used 1/8" wide plastic tape from an auto paint supply. They also have it in a thinner, less "curveable" tape, which won't work as good, but it is better for making straight lines. Don't pull and therefore stretch the plastic tape, as it will lift off the surface, especially in a curve. After you've laid the 1/8" tape in the pattern you desire, go back and lay a wider tape over it, letting the narrower tape be the guide tape for your pattern, and the wider tape do the job of masking, and holding down the paper which you also get at the paint store...don't use newspaper, as it has fine holes which will bleed paint through. Wherever you tape over a fabric finishing tape, or any other "edge", be sure to use a fingernail to press down on the tape, otherwise paint will find its way under the tape, and you'll have little tiny streaks of paint that you (and others) will see every time you get close enough to "sniff" the paint job. : ) I did one wing without paying attention to pressing down the tape real well, and I see the results every time I get up close and personal with the plane. If you are not doing very tight curves, you could get away with 3/16" or maybe 1/4" tapes, but remember that the sharper the curve, the narrower the tape has to be. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote: > > > > On Mon, November 17, 2008 8:20 pm, patrick reilly wrote: >> >> Kitfoxers, Finally learned how to attach pictures. Here's my >> rebuild project after >> painting fuselage. > > Very nice design. I like it! > > Looks like it was about to snow in that outside photo, at least > you're getting some > streaking that makes it look pretty cold out. > > Did you make any mistakes? I'd sure like to hear some points on > avoiding problems. > Looks like a lot of masking had to be done. You probably have > developed some > techniques. Especially masking in a curved pattern on a plane. > > >> >> Pat reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL > > > -- > Paul A. Franz, P.E. > PAF Consulting Engineers > Office 425.440.9505 > Cell 425.241.1618 > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:38 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: electrionic problems From: "JetPilot" Thanks for the report Floran, I will be checking the wires on my 912 !!! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215012#215012 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:53 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. Now if we could only get the engine to lay on the couch and have those same "psychological effects" they'd never blow up. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote: > > > I'm sure you are right, Lynn, but I feel the same psychological > effect that Michel describes: it seems the engine is less likely to > fail if I'm not messing with it! :-) > > Mike G. > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster > Phoenix, AZ > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > >> >> In a word....YES! >> >> In several words, any engine, at any time, can scatter itself or >> at the least start bogging down and lose power no matter what >> manipulations to the throttle setting you are doing or not doing. >> In short, "when it's time, it's time." >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, 591hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire >> ignition system >> >> >> >> On Nov 18, 2008, at 8:49 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >> >>>> From: Catz631@aol.com >>>> I don't want to go across a large body of water in a Kitfox >>>> with either >>>> engine ! More engines are better. >>> >>> But then, what is a large body of water? More than a glide to the >>> nearest shore? If I was to do that, I wouldn't be able to leave >>> Scandinavia. >>> >>> What I do (did?) when I cross a body of water is to set the >>> engine at a nice cruise RPM and ... don't touch the throttle >>> until I am on the other side. Maybe it is silly but I feel that >>> not much can happen to the engine when it is nicely reeving at a >>> constant RPM and flying at a constant speed at level. >>> ... Am I fooling myself? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Michel Verheughe >>> Norway >>> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded >>> >>> >>> 

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>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:12 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit From: "darinh" JetPilot wrote: > > > I am not clear on how you laid up the fiberglass, did you put it directly into the clay, or over the top ( Female or Male mold ? ) Since you formed fiberglass directly over the clay, what was the brown tape for ??? Did you form the clay over the windshield to get the mold shape ? This would have been a male mold process. The Brown tape was simply to protect the window and provide a "release" mechanism for the fiberglass after it cured. The clay was used only in the "hole" created when the windshield was trimmed. I sculpted the clay to provide a smooth transition from windshield to wing as simply laying tape over the hole and glassing over it would have resulted in a less than pleasing shape to the fairing. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing) 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215015#215015 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:34 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. Probably so, Michel, but as my flight instructor says: "You're retired right?...so go around the lake (talking about skirting Chicago to the west, on my way to Oshkosh, instead of flying along the shoreline of Lake Michigan)....it'll cost you a half-hour more, but you'll have more options for landing other than water and a beach." Of course I understand your situation, Michel, with all the beautiful mountains and lakes that you need to traverse any time you leave the pattern. Some days you just have to say, screw it, this is where I'm going and this is the only way to get there....and go. That's why God gave us a sphincter....so we could clench it and fly! : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 1:14 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: >> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] >> In short, "when it's time, it's time." > > ... and what if, at the same time, I hold my breath, cross my > fingers, touch my lucky four-leave clover, ... > Okay, I get the idea, Lynn. But you will surely agree that when > flying over a long stretch of open water, it is probably best to > leave the throttle in peace, right? > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... grounded > > > 

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________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:30 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild Paul=2C Did I make any mistakes! If you paint an airplane or car=2C you mak e mistakes. You just hope they are not that noticeable. Masking isn't that hard. It is time consuming but the more you do it the faster it gets. The d esign I used isn't very complicated. I have painted a couple of cars but it is so infrequent that I am learning again from the beginning and by the ti me the project is done=2C I have finally relearned how to paint again. The major mistake I made was not having the right lighting. I used 5@ 500 watt halogen lights and 2@ 300 watt incandesant. It would have been much better to have flourescents. If you are going to paint a plane or car=2C you have to have enough of the right kind of light positioned correctly to always be looking into the glare of the light on the paint. I was finally doing it b y the end of the job but because the lighting wasn't optimum I had to do ev erything but stand on my head to "look into the light". As far as masking =2C lay a line of narrow enough tape=2C most of my lines were done with 1/2 " masking tape=2C to allow curveing the line=2C then site down the line fro m the end to make sure it curves evenly. Determine reference points to take measurements from=2C transfer the pattern to the other side. Lay your tape to those lines. Site down the tape and adjust to have even smooth curves l ike you did on the 1st side. I painted yellow over a coat of white. Yellow needs white under it or you n eed many many many coats to cover=2C red requires the same white under coat . I then taped the pattern for the black and masked the yellow off and shot a coat of yellow along the tape lines. This coat of the base color (yellow ) along the tape line is needed to seal the tape so no black seeps under th e tape. This results in crisp lines. I used Poly Fibre system and recommend you get "Poly Fibre How to Cover an Aircraft Using the Poly-Fiber System" book by Jin Goldenbaum. The EAA "How to Paint Your Own Airplane" by Ron Alexander is also a reference book I rea d an reread. What ever you do follow the directions to the letter for what ever paint system you use. If you think you can short cut or substitue some other product than the one specified=2C Good Luck! It might cost a little more $ than a less expensive substitute product. But time is also a cost an d correcting an error due to non compatabile products is extremely costly =2C both $ and time. Oh=2C yes it was starting to snow when the picture was taken. Pat Reilly Mod # 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL > Date: Tue=2C 18 Nov 2008 09:44:29 -0800> Subject: Re: K itfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild> From: paul@eucleides.com> To: kitfox-list@matron @eucleides.com>> > > On Mon=2C November 17=2C 2008 8:20 pm=2C patrick reill y wrote:> >> > Kitfoxers=2C Finally learned how to attach pictures. Here's my rebuild project after> > painting fuselage.> > Very nice design. I like it!> > Looks like it was about to snow in that outside photo=2C at least yo u're getting some> streaking that makes it look pretty cold out.> > Did you make any mistakes? I'd sure like to hear some points on avoiding problems. > Looks like a lot of masking had to be done. You probably have developed s ome> techniques. Especially masking in a curved pattern on a plane.> > > >> > Pat reilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> > > -- > Paul A. Fran z=2C P.E.> PAF Consulting Engineers> Office 425.440.9505> Cell 425.241.1618 ===============> > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:22 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod 3 Rebuild Mike=2C My plane was originally built in 1996 in OK=2C flew by original bui lder for 3 years=2C sold and continued to fly for 3 or so years then was on a trailer which was hit while on the road=2C tearing out the landing gear. The engine and panel were stripped and sold. The plane was then sold to a fellow in KC area. He stripped the fuselage=2C replaced one bent tube under seat ready to recpver. He had some physical problems that kept him from fi nishing the project. I saw it on Barnstormers=2C bought it=2C and started l ooking for a 912 engine=2C that is what it was originally set up with. I sa w a 100 hour 582 FWF in CA that I couldn't pass up. A 912 would have cost 4 times as much and I didn't think a 90mph cruise plane justified the extra cost. do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod 3 Rebuild> From: orcabonita@h otmail.com> Date: Tue=2C 18 Nov 2008 02:24:14 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matron l.com>> > I like the colors=2C same colors I am going to use ! Why did you have to rebuild the plane ?> > Mike> > --------> "=3BNO FEAR"=3B - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!> > Kolb MK -III Xtra=2C 912-S> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.m ========================> _ ========================> _ =========> > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:19 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild Lynn=2C Most of my curves were gentle enough to use 1/2" paper tape. I had some 3M special plastic tape(expersive). I couldn't get it to stick very we ll and went back to regular paper masking tape. I could pull and strech th e tape to conform to any curve I was making. I did have to go to 1/4" paper tape on the smaller curve on the vert stab. and cowling. Also=2C shooting the tape line with the base color before shooting the trim color will seal the tape. Any bleed under the tape will be in base color=2C not visable=2C and avoid the trim color run under the tape=2C resulting in crisp lines. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Re build> Date: Tue=2C 18 Nov 2008 13:38:11 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.c > When doing curved patterns=2C I used 1/8" wide plastic tape from an > aut o paint supply. They also have it in a thinner=2C less "curveable" > tape =2C which won't work as good=2C but it is better for making straight > line s. Don't pull and therefore stretch the plastic tape=2C as it will > lift o ff the surface=2C especially in a curve. After you've laid the > 1/8" tape in the pattern you desire=2C go back and lay a wider tape > over it=2C lett ing the narrower tape be the guide tape for your > pattern=2C and the wider tape do the job of masking=2C and holding down > the paper which you also get at the paint store...don't use > newspaper=2C as it has fine holes whic h will bleed paint through. > Wherever you tape over a fabric finishing tap e=2C or any other "edge"=2C > be sure to use a fingernail to press down on the tape=2C otherwise > paint will find its way under the tape=2C and you'l l have little tiny > streaks of paint that you (and others) will see every time you get > close enough to "sniff" the paint job. : )> I did one wing w ithout paying attention to pressing down the tape > real well=2C and I see the results every time I get up close and > personal with the plane.> If yo u are not doing very tight curves=2C you could get away with 3/16" > or may be 1/4" tapes=2C but remember that the sharper the curve=2C the > narrower the tape has to be.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> J abiru 2200=2C 591hrs> Sensenich 62x46> flying again after rebuild=2C and ne w Electroair direct-fire ignition > system> > > > On Nov 18=2C 2008=2C at 1 2:44 PM=2C Paul A. Franz=2C P.E. wrote:> > > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz=2C P.E." > > > >> >> > On Mon=2C No vember 17=2C 2008 8:20 pm=2C patrick reilly wrote:> >>> >> Kitfoxers=2C Fin ally learned how to attach pictures. Here's my > >> rebuild project after> >> painting fuselage.> >> > Very nice design. I like it!> >> > Looks like i t was about to snow in that outside photo=2C at least > > you're getting so me> > streaking that makes it look pretty cold out.> >> > Did you make any mistakes? I'd sure like to hear some points on > > avoiding problems.> > Lo oks like a lot of masking had to be done. You probably have > > developed s ome> > techniques. Especially masking in a curved pattern on a plane.> >> > > >>> >> Pat reilly> >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild> >> Rockford=2C IL> >> >> > -- > > Paul A. Franz=2C P.E.> > PAF Consulting Engineers> > Office 425.440.9505> ========================> _ ===> > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Tue, November 18, 2008 10:38 am, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > When doing curved patterns, I used 1/8" wide plastic tape from an > auto paint supply. They also have it in a thinner, less "curveable" > tape, which won't work as good, but it is better for making straight > lines. I don't understand. Why is "thinner" less curveable? > Don't pull and therefore stretch the plastic tape, as it will > lift off the surface, especially in a curve. If you put a section down that isn't quite in the right position, can you adjust it or do you have to replace the piece that you want to move? > After you've laid the > 1/8" tape in the pattern you desire, go back and lay a wider tape > over it, letting the narrower tape be the guide tape for your > pattern, and the wider tape do the job of masking, and holding down > the paper which you also get at the paint store...don't use > newspaper, as it has fine holes which will bleed paint through. I've been using the kind that is folded plastic about 4 inches wide on the roll that is preattached on one side to the tape. Stick it down, then unfold the plastic to 16" wide if needed. My problem has been if it don't stick it down perfectly and have to move it, I get a resulting ragged edge when I peel the masking off. I haven't been able to get perfect lines at the edges of the masking. I don't know when to take the masking off either. Should it be done while the new paint is still a bit soft? I was told that you have to spray a coat of clear over all the edges to get them real smooth. I was also told to try to feather the clear. I have tried that and where it is thin it gets a sort of dry dull look. Maybe I don't understand what "feathering" means exactly. > Wherever you tape over a fabric finishing tape, or any other "edge", > be sure to use a fingernail to press down on the tape, otherwise > paint will find its way under the tape, and you'll have little tiny > streaks of paint that you (and others) will see every time you get > close enough to "sniff" the paint job. : ) Thanks for that tip. I haven't crossed a finishing tape yet with masking. Still practicing on bare metal. > I did one wing without paying attention to pressing down the tape > real well, and I see the results every time I get up close and > personal with the plane. > If you are not doing very tight curves, you could get away with 3/16" > or maybe 1/4" tapes, but remember that the sharper the curve, the > narrower the tape has to be. How did you lay out long straight lines? Some kind of chalk line? Did you mark the surface at all as a guide? When I've asked about how to make the lines really nice looking, I've been frequently told that if I'm going to be so picky about them, then I need to use vinyl tape. I don't know if that works over polyfiber though. It also occurred to me that a lot of really nice pin striping is done on cars and has been done for a long time before vinyl cutting was available. Also, if the vinyl panels are pretty big then weight might be a consideration. Maybe I need to hire an experienced car painter to help me some. I'm learning this on my own without the benefit of an experienced painter so far. -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:34 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Tue, November 18, 2008 10:58 am, patrick reilly wrote: > > Paul, Did I make any mistakes! If you paint an airplane or car, you make mistakes. You > just hope they are not that noticeable. Masking isn't that hard. It is time consuming > but the more you do it the faster it gets. The design I used isn't very complicated. It sure is impressive looking to me! > I > have painted a couple of cars but it is so infrequent that I am learning again from > the beginning and by the time the project is done, I have finally relearned how to > paint again. The major mistake I made was not having the right lighting. I used 5@ 500 > watt halogen lights and 2@ 300 watt incandesant. It would have been much better to > have flourescents. All that heat from those lights might have helped though. Is the idea that using fluorescent lighting is going to mean you don't have to reposition the lights as much? > If you are going to paint a plane or car, you have to have enough > of the right kind of light positioned correctly to always be looking into the glare of > the light on the paint. I was finally doing it by the end of the job but because the > lighting wasn't optimum I had to do everything but stand on my head to "look into the > light". OK, you're making me a believer on that. In my test painting, it's been on a real job but just not as critical. I have been repairing corrosion damage and blistered paint on a truck frame and doing a lot of masking of wires, bolt heads, decals and rubber parts. I have spent many hours with rubber gloves, using various wire brushes and some powered and naval jelly to remove the rust. Some parts didn't need to be repainted since there was no damage by blistering under the Imron paint from corrosion. My mistakes were often due to poor lighting and the other problem was not being able to position the paint gun the best distance because stuff was in the way. If I accidentally got a run, I just wiped it all off immediately in the area and shot it again. Some places I put on too light of a coat simply because the lighting was not bright enough. I think your trick of sighting into the glare is something I didn't know and will adopt as standard practice. > As far as masking, lay a line of narrow enough tape, most of my lines were > done with 1/2" masking tape, to allow curveing the line, then site down the line from > the end to make sure it curves evenly. Determine reference points to take measurements > from, transfer the pattern to the other side. what do you make your transfer marks with? Or do you just start the masking as measured points without a mark? > Lay your tape to those lines. Site down > the tape and adjust to have even smooth curves like you did on the 1st side. > I painted yellow over a coat of white. Yellow needs white under it or you need many > many many coats to cover, red requires the same white under coat. I then taped the > pattern for the black and masked the yellow off and shot a coat of yellow along the > tape lines. This coat of the base color (yellow) along the tape line is needed to seal > the tape so no black seeps under the tape. This results in crisp lines. Oh, I see, that's clever. Do you pull the masking when the paint is still wet? How to you keep from getting tiny little fracture lines in the paint when you pull the masking off? > I used Poly Fibre system and recommend you get "Poly Fibre How to Cover an Aircraft > Using the Poly-Fiber System" book by Jin Goldenbaum. I've got that one. > The EAA "How to Paint Your Own > Airplane" by Ron Alexander is also a reference book I read an reread. OK, thanks for that tip. I'll get that one too. > What ever you do > follow the directions to the letter for what ever paint system you use. If you think > you can short cut or substitue some other product than the one specified, Good Luck! > It might cost a little more $ than a less expensive substitute product. Sometimes, I've found that some of the more expensive products are horribly marked up though. I will pay a little more locally to give them the business for the service I get though. > But time is > also a cost and correcting an error due to non compatabile products is extremely > costly, both $ and time. I'm a believer in that. I'm using only the polyfiber products on my airplane. > Oh, yes it was starting to snow when the picture was taken. Sure is more fun working on the airplane than doing the yard work and house repairs. Thanks for the coaching. -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:38 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call his "100 mile an hour tape." :-) - do not archive - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Lynn Matteson wrote: From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm not kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until Spring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep people from calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard ti me getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it i s tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is, whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony Stewart orange which almost matc hes my plane's orange...close enough for most purposes. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote: > > > > This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox > Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot) > > A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then.. > OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas. > > .... > I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't) > and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door- > even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold. > Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater > was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the > air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff. > > Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A > piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in > the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber > for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still > running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off, > or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already lined up > with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final destination. > checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally > isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin > through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned back for > home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again. > > -Jack > >> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward. I >> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape >> covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but I >> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it >> yet. > > > > =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:23 PM PST US From: "Rueb, Duane" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit Marco How old was your flight instructor. I just used some of that tape on Sund ay, but fortunately not on a critical spot. It was 100mph tape, but needed to be 125mph tape. Duane Rueb, ex, CFI, N24ZM, model 5 IO-240 From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call his "100 mile an hour tape." :-) do not archive Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Lynn Matteson wrote: From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit Jack, it sounds like you needed a better brand of duct tape...I'm not kidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on when it's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don't take it off until Spring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that'll keep people from calling your plane a "hangar queen." If you can't get regular duct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard ti me getting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spring...it i s tenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is, whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony Stewart orange which almost matc hes my plane's orange...close enough for most purposes. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote: > > > > This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox > Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot) > > A cross-country trip in December. Oddly- it was cold then.. > OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas. > > .... > I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't) > and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door- > even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold. > Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater > was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the > air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff. > > Along about Lampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape. A > piece of it separated at the wing root, and began flapping in > the wind, turning the cabin of the plane into a sounding chamber > for a tuba. First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still > running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off, > or the prop had thrown a blade. This was LOUD! I was already lined up > with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my final destination. > checked temps.. fine. power.. fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally > isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin > through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and turned back for > home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again. > > -Jack > >> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward. I >> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape >> covering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, but I >> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around to it >> yet. > > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:37 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit We used to call it 200 mph tape in my drag racing days...so in effect, I had a 37mph safety margin. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system do not archive On Nov 18, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call > his "100 mile an hour tape." > :-) > > do not archive > > Marco Menezes N99KX > Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:04 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mod 3 Rebuild From: "akflyer" For doing the straight lines and most masking, I used the blue scotch painters tape, medium hold and used a plastic spreader to make sure the tape was stuck down good along the line to be painted. I taped the actual masking paper to that tape. For curved lines I used 1/4" blue line tape from the auto store. It is spendy but nothing I have used will lay down the way that stuff does. On the fuse and cowling, as soon as I was done spraying, I went to the side I shot first and started pulling the tapes and masking. All lines were crisp and clean. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215053#215053 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild From: gary.algate@sandvik.com I did the same as you Lynn - the tape I used was 3/16" and is called "Fine line Tape" available from most Autopro shops. Ended up with really sharp detail and no seepage Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. Lynn Matteson Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 19/11/2008 05:15 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild When doing curved patterns, I used 1/8" wide plastic tape from an auto paint supply. They also have it in a thinner, less "curveable" tape, which won't work as good, but it is better for making straight lines. Don't pull and therefore stretch the plastic tape, as it will lift off the surface, especially in a curve. After you've laid the 1/8" tape in the pattern you desire, go back and lay a wider tape over it, letting the narrower tape be the guide tape for your pattern, and the wider tape do the job of masking, and holding down the paper which you also get at the paint store...don't use newspaper, as it has fine holes which will bleed paint through. Wherever you tape over a fabric finishing tape, or any other "edge", be sure to use a fingernail to press down on the tape, otherwise paint will find its way under the tape, and you'll have little tiny streaks of paint that you (and others) will see every time you get close enough to "sniff" the paint job. : ) I did one wing without paying attention to pressing down the tape real well, and I see the results every time I get up close and personal with the plane. If you are not doing very tight curves, you could get away with 3/16" or maybe 1/4" tapes, but remember that the sharper the curve, the narrower the tape has to be. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 12:44 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote: > > > > On Mon, November 17, 2008 8:20 pm, patrick reilly wrote: >> >> Kitfoxers, Finally learned how to attach pictures. Here's my >> rebuild project after >> painting fuselage. > > Very nice design. I like it! > > Looks like it was about to snow in that outside photo, at least > you're getting some > streaking that makes it look pretty cold out. > > Did you make any mistakes? I'd sure like to hear some points on > avoiding problems. > Looks like a lot of masking had to be done. You probably have > developed some > techniques. Especially masking in a curved pattern on a plane. > > >> >> Pat reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL > > > -- > Paul A. Franz, P.E. > PAF Consulting Engineers > Office 425.440.9505 > Cell 425.241.1618 > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:57 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Kitfox-List: 100 mph tape - was Windshield fit Duane, - He was 83 when he soloed me. When he started flying, all aircraft engines w ere unreliable [not just 2-strokes ;-) ]. So he taught me to be constantly aware of wind direction and whether I had enough altitude to land safely in "that farmer's field . . . over there!" Also, always-carry a roll of 100 mph tape to fix the holes corn stalks-make. 100 mph was plenty fast enou gh then and, as it turns out,-fast enough today for my kind of flying. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 - - do not archive --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Rueb, Duane wrote: From: Rueb, Duane Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit -Marco - How old was your flight instructor.-- I just used some of that tape on Sunday, but fortunately not on a critical spot.- It was 100mph tape, but needed to be 125mph tape.- - Duane Rueb, ex, CFI, N24ZM, model 5 IO-240 - From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit - That must be the same stuff my old flight instructor used to call his "100 mile an hour tape." :-) - do not archive - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 --- On Tue, 11/18/08, Lynn Matteson wrote: From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit Lynn Matteson -Jack, it sounds like you needed a bett er brand of duct tape...I'm notkidding. I've had mine hold at -6 degrees F. at altitude. Put it on whenit's warm (tape and plane) if you can, and don' t take it off untilSpring. You might pull a little paint with it, but that' ll keep people fromcalling your plane a "hangar queen."- If you can't get regularduct tape to hold, try some Gorilla Tape, but be prepared to have a hard timegetting that stuff off the ROLL, let alone off the plane next spr ing...it istenacious! Or get a brand called "racer's tape" I believe it is, whcih comes in many colors. I found a Tony Stewart orange which almost matc hesmy plane's orange...close enough for most purposes. -Lynn MattesonKitf ox IV Speedster, taildraggerJabiru 2200, 591hrsSensenich 62x46flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system - - -On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Jack L Bell wrote: -> --> Kitfox-List m essage posted by: Jack L Bell > > > > This reminded me of my first in-flight emergency. Kitfox> Model 1, 582 (gray head, both engine and pilot)> > A cross-country trip in December.- Oddly- it was cold then ..> OAT ~28F, Cold enough, in Central Texas.> > ....> I cranked the heater up (I felt lucky to have it- most don't)> and discovered that I didn't want my leg to touch the door-> even through 2 layers of long handles, I could feel the cold.> Since I'd expected it to be cold, and since I knew that the heater> was, at best, wishful thinking, I spent time taping up some of the > air gaps into the cabin with duct tape prior to takeoff.> > Along about L ampasas, I was cold.. and so was the tape.- A> piece of it separated at t he wing root, and began flapping in> the wind, turning the cabin of the pla ne into a sounding chamber> for a tuba.- First in-flight emergency.. The engine was still> running, even if it did sound as though the muffler had fallen off,> or the prop had thrown a blade.- This was LOUD!- I was already lined up> with the runway at Lampasas, although that was not my fi nal destination.> checked temps.. fine.- power..- fine.. WHAT WAS THAT NOISE?? I Finally> isolated it to a flapping piece of duct tape (sticking a fountain pin> through the hole changed the pitch.. and intensity).. and tu rned back for> home. Where I removed all duct tape.. never again.> > -Jack> >> Rick, I have the same problem, but my windshield extends more forward.I >> think my kit was the 128th series 5. Right now I have red duct tape>> co vering the gap. It works! I have played with the aluminum cuffs, butI>> too see Fiberglas as the only answer. I just haven't got around toit>> yet.> > > > - - - - - - -http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Na vigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:47 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild The "thinner" tape I refer to is a light green in color, and is less curveable because of the makeup of the material....and also I think it is wider than the vinyl/plastic. This is why it is better to use it for straight lines...it doesn't give when tugged straight, therefore it maintains a straight line, unlike the plastic/vinyl tape which stretches, then when pressed down, will shrink back to its original length. And if you've used it for a curved line, the curve naturally gets shorter, and the only way it can do this is to lift off the surface. I used the blue or red vinyl (sorry for calling it plastic earlier...I don't have any here at home now or I'd give you the mfr. name...probably 3M though) on curved lines, and the light green translucent stuff for straight lines. I usually lay down a line, make sure that it's in the right position, then press it down. I have,however, had to move a line on occasion, and it can be lifted and moved at least once. I tried the "attached masking" type of stuff you refer to, and didn't like it much. I didn't like being able to see through it, and also, the paint didn't stick very well to it, and when pulling off that material, the stuff flexes enough that the paint that ended up on it would flake off and land on the freshly-painted surface....not good. I haven't tried the clear coat over the edge of the masking tape, nor have I tried the base color over the edge of the masking tape. If you haven't crossed over a finishing tape yet, you soon will, and believe me, you're gonna do it a lot. Oh, one thing to be aware of...if you can do your design such that you don't run along a finishing tape...pinked tape....edge for very long. You'll see that the line that you wish to paint will cause you to wear out your fingernails pressing the tape down over each and every one of those little pointy edges...unless of course, you do the clear or base color spraying first. (I wish I had heard of that method when I sprayed my plane.) I laid out my long lines by marking on the white base coat, which by the way is almost a must, at least as far as I can tell. I was told that to spray the orange color that I used over the Polyspray would take a lot of paint to cover and look good. Much better to spray the whole thing white, and then you have a uniform color to spray darker coats over. Of course, this was told to me by a paint salesman, so take that advice with a grain of salt. : ) If you're going to paint it a darker (than the Polyspray) color, I think I'd skip the all- white base coat...somebody else might have an idea on the wiseness of this move. I would never use a vinyl panel on an airplane due to the weight, and besides, it looks like crap in my not-so-humble opinion...too hard to make compound curves, I would think. I feel the same way about using vinyl tape for pin-striping. To me, it shows a bit of less-than- quality workmanship. I'd rather have my painted-on accent lines come out a little less than perfect, than have taped accent lines any day...and so will the judges. Not that I've ever won anything with my plane...it gets used too much to win prizes. : ) (At least that's my excuse.) By all means, go to a body shop and ask questions...those guys are a wealth of knowledge. I've got a body shop just 275 paces up the road from me, and they enjoy my coming up and asking questions and especially dropping off a six-pack as a reward. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 2:35 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote: > > > > On Tue, November 18, 2008 10:38 am, Lynn Matteson wrote: >> >> When doing curved patterns, I used 1/8" wide plastic tape from an >> auto paint supply. They also have it in a thinner, less "curveable" >> tape, which won't work as good, but it is better for making straight >> lines. > > I don't understand. Why is "thinner" less curveable? > >> Don't pull and therefore stretch the plastic tape, as it will >> lift off the surface, especially in a curve. > > If you put a section down that isn't quite in the right position, > can you adjust it or > do you have to replace the piece that you want to move? > >> After you've laid the >> 1/8" tape in the pattern you desire, go back and lay a wider tape >> over it, letting the narrower tape be the guide tape for your >> pattern, and the wider tape do the job of masking, and holding down >> the paper which you also get at the paint store...don't use >> newspaper, as it has fine holes which will bleed paint through. > > I've been using the kind that is folded plastic about 4 inches wide > on the roll that > is preattached on one side to the tape. Stick it down, then unfold > the plastic to 16" > wide if needed. My problem has been if it don't stick it down > perfectly and have to > move it, I get a resulting ragged edge when I peel the masking off. > > I haven't been able to get perfect lines at the edges of the > masking. I don't know > when to take the masking off either. Should it be done while the > new paint is still a > bit soft? > > I was told that you have to spray a coat of clear over all the > edges to get them real > smooth. I was also told to try to feather the clear. I have tried > that and where it is > thin it gets a sort of dry dull look. Maybe I don't understand what > "feathering" means > exactly. > >> Wherever you tape over a fabric finishing tape, or any other "edge", >> be sure to use a fingernail to press down on the tape, otherwise >> paint will find its way under the tape, and you'll have little tiny >> streaks of paint that you (and others) will see every time you get >> close enough to "sniff" the paint job. : ) > > Thanks for that tip. I haven't crossed a finishing tape yet with > masking. Still > practicing on bare metal. > >> I did one wing without paying attention to pressing down the tape >> real well, and I see the results every time I get up close and >> personal with the plane. >> If you are not doing very tight curves, you could get away with 3/16" >> or maybe 1/4" tapes, but remember that the sharper the curve, the >> narrower the tape has to be. > > How did you lay out long straight lines? Some kind of chalk line? > Did you mark the > surface at all as a guide? > > When I've asked about how to make the lines really nice looking, > I've been frequently > told that if I'm going to be so picky about them, then I need to > use vinyl tape. I > don't know if that works over polyfiber though. It also occurred to > me that a lot of > really nice pin striping is done on cars and has been done for a > long time before > vinyl cutting was available. Also, if the vinyl panels are pretty > big then weight > might be a consideration. Maybe I need to hire an experienced car > painter to help me > some. I'm learning this on my own without the benefit of an > experienced painter so > far. > > > -- > Paul A. Franz, P.E. > PAF Consulting Engineers > Office 425.440.9505 > Cell 425.241.1618 > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:51 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild Paul=2C The halogens were hot. Too hot. It was summer and I didn't need ext ra heat. Halogen lights tend to spot light the light. Flouresents give a fl ood light light that is better. less heat and much less power to operate. S et them up properly and use enough of them so you don't have to reposition the lights. Yes=2C you have to look into the glare on the paint to see how wet it is=2C how much paint you have or don't have on the surface. I just used a lead pencil to mark every couple of feet where I wanted my li nes. Don't use a marker. It is easier to see but will bleed through the pai nt. I pulled the tape before completely dry. That Poly Fibre book tells you whe n to pull tape. Build yourself a fresh air system with a shop vac that you can reverse the air flow. I bought a new one for $35 at Farm and Fleet as a clean dedicated air supply unit. Get a Tyvek hood for $35 and coveralls from Cole Parmer o n the internet. And run the air in with a garden hose. It was hot and the s hop vac heats the air also=2C so I bought a wash tub=2C coiled up 20' of sw imming pool vac hose in the tub=2C dumped 20# of ice in the tub and had coo l dry air to the hood. Do it even if you are using a non-carcinogenic paint . Mine worked great. You can buy a fresh air system from Hobby Air=2C but I think they are about $400+. Good Luck Pat Reilly > Date: Tue=2C 18 Nov 2008 12:03:01 -0800> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild> From: paul@eucleides.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> K itfox-List message posted by: "Paul A. Franz=2C P.E." > > > On Tue=2C November 18=2C 2008 10:58 am=2C patrick reilly wrote:> >> > Paul=2C Did I make any mistakes! If you paint an airplane or car=2C you mak e mistakes. You> > just hope they are not that noticeable. Masking isn't th at hard. It is time consuming> > but the more you do it the faster it gets. The design I used isn't very complicated.> > It sure is impressive looking to me!> > > I> > have painted a couple of cars but it is so infrequent tha t I am learning again from> > the beginning and by the time the project is done=2C I have finally relearned how to> > paint again. The major mistake I made was not having the right lighting. I used 5@ 500> > watt halogen ligh ts and 2@ 300 watt incandesant. It would have been much better to> > have f lourescents.> > All that heat from those lights might have helped though. I s the idea that using> fluorescent lighting is going to mean you don't have to reposition the lights as much?> > > If you are going to paint a plane o r car=2C you have to have enough> > of the right kind of light positioned c orrectly to always be looking into the glare of> > the light on the paint. I was finally doing it by the end of the job but because the> > lighting wa sn't optimum I had to do everything but stand on my head to "look into the> > light".> > OK=2C you're making me a believer on that. In my test paintin g=2C it's been on a real job> but just not as critical. I have been repairi ng corrosion damage and blistered paint> on a truck frame and doing a lot o f masking of wires=2C bolt heads=2C decals and rubber> parts. I have spent many hours with rubber gloves=2C using various wire brushes and some> power ed and naval jelly to remove the rust. Some parts didn't need to be repaint ed> since there was no damage by blistering under the Imron paint from corr osion. My> mistakes were often due to poor lighting and the other problem w as not being able to> position the paint gun the best distance because stuf f was in the way. If I> accidentally got a run=2C I just wiped it all off i mmediately in the area and shot it> again. Some places I put on too light o f a coat simply because the lighting was not> bright enough. I think your t rick of sighting into the glare is something I didn't> know and will adopt as standard practice.> > > As far as masking=2C lay a line of narrow enough tape=2C most of my lines were> > done with 1/2" masking tape=2C to allow c urveing the line=2C then site down the line from> > the end to make sure it curves evenly. Determine reference points to take measurements> > from=2C transfer the pattern to the other side.> > what do you make your transfer m arks with? Or do you just start the masking as> measured points without a m ark?> > > Lay your tape to those lines. Site down> > the tape and adjust to have even smooth curves like you did on the 1st side.> > I painted yellow over a coat of white. Yellow needs white under it or you need many> > many many coats to cover=2C red requires the same white under coat. I then taped the> > pattern for the black and masked the yellow off and shot a coat of yellow along the> > tape lines. This coat of the base color (yellow) along the tape line is needed to seal> > the tape so no black seeps under the tap e. This results in crisp lines.> > Oh=2C I see=2C that's clever. Do you pul l the masking when the paint is still wet? How to> you keep from getting ti ny little fracture lines in the paint when you pull the> masking off?> > > I used Poly Fibre system and recommend you get "Poly Fibre How to Cover an Aircraft> > Using the Poly-Fiber System" book by Jin Goldenbaum.> > I've go t that one.> > > The EAA "How to Paint Your Own> > Airplane" by Ron Alexand er is also a reference book I read an reread.> > OK=2C thanks for that tip. I'll get that one too.> > > What ever you do> > follow the directions to t he letter for what ever paint system you use. If you think> > you can short cut or substitue some other product than the one specified=2C Good Luck!> > It might cost a little more $ than a less expensive substitute product.> > Sometimes=2C I've found that some of the more expensive products are horr ibly marked up> though. I will pay a little more locally to give them the b usiness for the service I> get though.> > > But time is> > also a cost and correcting an error due to non compatabile products is extremely> > costly =2C both $ and time.> > I'm a believer in that. I'm using only the polyfibe r products on my airplane.> > > Oh=2C yes it was starting to snow when the picture was taken.> > Sure is more fun working on the airplane than doing t he yard work and house repairs.> > Thanks for the coaching.> > -- > Paul A. Franz=2C P.E.> PAF Consulting Engineers> Office 425.440.9505> Cell 425.241 =================> > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:26 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild Looking back at some pics I shot, I might not have used 1/8"....probably 1/4" or even 3/8" judging from the comparison with my finishing tapes over the false ribs. Man, that was 3 1/2 years ago! How quickly we forget. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 5:47 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > I did the same as you Lynn - the tape I used was 3/16" and is > called "Fine line Tape" available from most Autopro shops. > > Ended up with really sharp detail and no seepage > > Gary > > Gary Algate > Classic 4 Jab2200 > > -- ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:28 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild It seems like I read that the regular masking tape...crepe tape...is too "wrinkeley" to use for fine edging, although the type of paint used might have something to do with that...thin, runny paint would tend to seep under a not-well-pressed-down tape edge. All this talk of doing a perfect paint job reminds me of an old photography professor (talking about making very crisp, sharply focussed prints) who said "are you going to stand back and admire the picture, or get your nose two inches away and sniff the damn thing?" Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system On Nov 18, 2008, at 2:29 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, Most of my curves were gentle enough to use 1/2" paper tape. > I had some 3M special plastic tape(expersive). I couldn't get it to > stick very well and went back to regular paper masking tape. I > could pull and strech the tape to conform to any curve I was > making. I did have to go to 1/4" paper tape on the smaller curve on > the vert stab. and cowling. Also, shooting the tape line with the > base color before shooting the trim color will seal the tape. Any > bleed under the tape will be in base color, not visable, and avoid > the trim color run under the tape, resulting in crisp lines. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:38 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: A Fun Flight All, We've been having the usually dreaded Santa Ana winds the last two days, with winds out of the east (offshore) blowing about 20-40mph. While it makes great weather for burning mobile homes, it also, the day after, leaves us with 50 - 100 mile visibility under clear skies and calm winds. The visibility is a particular treat, since we normally have 5-10 mile visibility in haze due to the warm marine weather that makes San Diego so popular. Departing Ramona with no particular destination in mind I headed north to visit the east LA basin. When the smog's blown out after a Santa Ana it's a beautiful area, ringed by mountains, 11k' to the north and 10k' to the east. I decided I'd go to Hemet to check the restaurant that fairly recently re-opened. Traffic was non-existent, but I flew at 4500' since I was flying alone. Despite the warm weather I had a cup of chili and lemonade for lunch, served by a singing waitress. (Bengals - "All Over the Place") It cost all of $5, the cheapest flying lunch I've ever had. (Lessee, $5 + 1.5h @ $67/hr = $105.50. Perfect!) Departing Hemet I thought, just for grins, I might see if there were any climbers on 10.8k' San Jacinto: full throttle, hold it at 6200 rpm, lean with altitude, look for thermals and ridge lift, and the little beezer 582 climbed right up to 11k'. Sure enough there was one hiker on the peak who offered a friendly wave. From my vantage at 11k' I could see all the way from Yuma to Edwards AFB to the ocean. Magnificent. It was so nice I flew all the way back to Ramona at 10.5k' enjoying the iPod in perfectly smooth, 60 degree, air. As is typical with the 582, I slam-dunked the descent to keep the EGT's in line. I learned a new trick, too. The Garmin Pilot III gps gives the vertical speed to the waypoint. I found I could maintain a perfect glide-slope if I kept the vertical speed constant. (Easier said than done.) No I didn't take any pictures. The problem is that they never come out as good as Michel's. Maybe next time. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:12 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mod 3 Rebuild At 03:09 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote: >Paul, The halogens were hot. Too hot. It was summer and I didn't >need extra heat. Halogen lights tend to spot light the light. >Flouresents give a flood light light that is better. less heat and >much less power to operate. Set them up properly and use enough of >them so you don't have to reposition the lights. I suggest hanging 4' flourescents vertically. It works wonders. Don't paint them, though. ;-) > I just used a lead pencil to mark every couple of feet where I > wanted my lines. Don't use a marker. It is easier to see but will > bleed through the paint. I just had great success doing some straight lines with a construction laser. It works even over curved surfaces if you orient the laser correctly. I've also had success getting straight lines on small curved parts using the sun's shadow off a straight-edge to locate the line. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:06 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. From: "LarryM" Ultralight crashes By Black Press - Surrey North Delta Leader Published: November 18, 2008 2:00 PM Updated: November 18, 2008 2:47 PM A Surrey man suffered severe bruising to one hand in a noon-hour ultralight crash Sunday at a King George Highway airpark. Airflow Ultralight Aviation's Fred Glasbergen said the crash occurred after the Australian-made Jabiru's engine failed on approach to landing. "Just wasn't quite enough altitude to make the runway," Glasbergen said. The ultralight "landed really hard," he said. The pilot, believed in his 60s, walked away. The craft, however, was seriously damaged. Surrey RCMP Sgt. Roger Morrow said police attended, but the crash is not a police matter. Glasbergen said a report will be provided to the Transportation Safety Board. newsroom@surreyleader.com I think that he really had a 582 in it, but threw the Jab in the wreckage to protect the Rotax reputation. larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215079#215079 ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:00 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. At 04:43 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote: >I think that he really had a 582 in it, but threw the Jab in the >wreckage to protect the Rotax reputation. ROFLOL! It's a darn good thing those 582's are light! Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: A Fun Flight From: "Tom Jones" Guy, that sounds like a fun time. You mention leaning as you climbed. do you have the Arctic Sparrow cockpit adjustable needles? Also can you Tell more about the slam dunk method of descending to keep the EGT's in line? -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215089#215089 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:15 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. Uh............ok...........I think.......... What? Is it April 1st already? I must've overslept......damn, I missed the inauguration........ Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system do not archive On Nov 18, 2008, at 7:43 PM, LarryM wrote: > > Ultralight crashes > > By Black Press - Surrey North Delta Leader > > Published: November 18, 2008 2:00 PM > Updated: November 18, 2008 2:47 PM > > A Surrey man suffered severe bruising to one hand in a noon-hour > ultralight crash Sunday at a King George Highway airpark. > > Airflow Ultralight Aviation's Fred Glasbergen said the crash > occurred after the Australian-made Jabiru's engine failed on > approach to landing. > > "Just wasn't quite enough altitude to make the runway," Glasbergen > said. > > The ultralight "landed really hard," he said. > > The pilot, believed in his 60s, walked away. The craft, however, > was seriously damaged. > > Surrey RCMP Sgt. Roger Morrow said police attended, but the crash > is not a police matter. Glasbergen said a report will be provided > to the Transportation Safety Board. > > newsroom@surreyleader.com > > I think that he really had a 582 in it, but threw the Jab in the > wreckage to protect the Rotax reputation. > > larry > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215079#215079 > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:40 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. The 582's are light?.....hell, he had the Jab in his hip pocket! Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 591hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system do not archive On Nov 18, 2008, at 8:24 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 04:43 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote: >> I think that he really had a 582 in it, but threw the Jab in the >> wreckage to protect the Rotax reputation. > > ROFLOL! It's a darn good thing those 582's are light! > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. > > Do not archive > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.