Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 05:35 AM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (LarryM)
3. 05:45 AM - Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (LarryM)
4. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: A Fun Flight (Guy Buchanan)
5. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Guy Buchanan)
6. 08:56 AM - TruTrak ADI Autopilot II (kitfoxjim)
7. 09:47 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. (Guy Buchanan)
8. 10:16 AM - Re: Windshield fit (darinh)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: Windshield fit (Weiss Richard)
10. 11:41 AM - Re: Windshield fit (darinh)
11. 11:50 AM - Re: A Fun Flight (Tom Jones)
12. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (kerrjohna@comcast.net)
13. 02:40 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
14. 02:42 PM - Re: Re: A Fun Flight (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
15. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: A Fun Flight (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
16. 04:15 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
17. 06:06 PM - Re: Windshield fit (darinh)
18. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: A Fun Flight (Guy Buchanan)
19. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: A Fun Flight (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
20. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (patrick reilly)
21. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: Windshield fit (patrick reilly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. |
Paul,
That is all well and true that another engine can get you to the scene of
the crash if the first one fails but I am reminded of a few occasions when I was
glad to have the others. One was over the pacific when we lost an engine in a
P-3. I knew 3 engines would take us home. Another was when I was a new
engineer for a major and flying a DC10 to London from Houston. We were far over
the
Atlantic and heard a call from a B767 with a full load of passengers that was
diverting to Iceland because of an engine failure. His voice was rather high
pitched as you can imagine. (glad we had 3 and wish I could have given him one)
The worst one was loosing two engines on a DC6 (1 and 3) prior to even
reaching 2000 ft! On that one I was riding in the back. After landing I
congratulated two very pale white pilots on a job well done. I was learning to
fly this
aircraft and asked them if this was standard operation in this
aircraft.(loosing two)
With all of that said, I too leave the throttle alone when I have to fly
over a large body of water with no other way of getting there. (glancing at a
good magazine article also helps)
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Pensacola,Fl
**************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from
blockbuster.com
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. |
>From South Africa where they changed the mandatory overhaul schedule that Rotax
publishes to 600hrs/10yrs, then 300 hrs there after, crank replacement bases
on 60% wear, no time/hr limit. Details see
http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/rotax-2-stroke-exemption-application.pdf
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215121#215121
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sa_582_maintenance_schedule_687.pdf
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. |
Also from SA: Rotax reliability facts:
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215122#215122
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_stats_159.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
At 06:34 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:
>You mention leaning as you climbed. do you have the Arctic Sparrow
>cockpit adjustable needles?
No, I have the HACman system that varies the float bowl
pressure to achieve moderate leaning. I like it a lot.
>Also can you Tell more about the slam dunk method of descending to
>keep the EGT's in line?
With the HACman system you install rich mains, to give you
something to lean off. I run 180's here in San Diego. The mid range
is kept as-is so when you go moderately down hill you end up in the
mid-range jets with the prop pushing the engine and therefore very
lean. The only way to go down hill without getting too lean is to
either go slow, or descend slowly, or pull the throttle way back and
drop like a rock. Usually I do shallow controlled descents, but when
I'm trying to stay with my 912 buddies, or the view is pretty, I
stair-step down, dropping fast near idle, the levelling at cruise
throttle. It drives them crazy!
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. |
At 05:34 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote:
> >From South Africa where they changed the mandatory overhaul
> schedule that Rotax publishes to 600hrs/10yrs, then 300 hrs there
> after, crank replacement bases on 60% wear, no time/hr limit. Details see
This is AMAZING, Larry. I checked their website
(http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/?p=469) and found that the request is
expected to be approved. I loved the letter because of the statistics
in the appendix. It's the best information on 582's I've ever seen.
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 6
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| Subject: | TruTrak ADI Autopilot II |
Read post about ADI autopilot, but does anyone have any drawings or pics on how
to hook up the servos to the flight controls in a Vixen?
What brakets, etc needs to be made? I think I have everything figured out except
controll/servo hookup.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215141#215141
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox Engine - 2 Stroke VS 4 Stroke. |
At 05:34 AM 11/19/2008, you wrote:
> From South Africa where they changed the mandatory overhaul
> schedule that Rotax publishes to 600hrs/10yrs, then 300 hrs there
> after, crank replacement bases on 60% wear, no time/hr limit. Details see
>
>http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/rotax-2-stroke-exemption-application.pdf
Larry,
I have attached a plot of the number of engines in each
group of 100 hours, (i.e. 0-100, 100-200, etc.) These are the hours
582s in South Africa have flown without crank replacement or major
overhaul. I'm trying to figure out the number of hours one can fly
with a 97% chance of no-crank-failure based on this data, but my
statistical mathematics is rusty.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Rick,
Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out great.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215156#215156
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2676_large_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2674_large_466.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Darin,
I looked at the photos and honestly, you did an outstanding job! The
listers ought to take a look at these photos. I'm encouraged. If
mine turn out half as good I'd be pleased.
Thanks,
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Nov 19, 2008, at 1:16 PM, darinh wrote:
>
> Rick,
>
> Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will
> turn out great.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215156#215156
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2676_large_193.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2674_large_466.jpg
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Rick,
Thanks for the compliments...I am pretty please with how the turned out. I had
put this part off for a couple months and went the tape route but with the temps
dropping (and an incident where a peice of tape came loose and gave me quite
a scare) I decided that now was as good as any to make the fairings. Fiberglass
is a great medium to work with...just make sure you protect the area you
are working and make sure you have a good release agent (brown packaging tape
in this instance). Clean up any epoxy drips before it cures also. Have fun.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215168#215168
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
> With the HACman system you install rich mains, to give you
> something to lean off. I run 180's here in San Diego. The mid range
> is kept as-is so when you go moderately down hill you end up in the
> mid-range jets with the prop pushing the engine and therefore very
> lean. The only way to go down hill without getting too lean is to
> either go slow, or descend slowly, or pull the throttle way back and
> drop like a rock. Usually I do shallow controlled descents, but when
> I'm trying to stay with my 912 buddies, or the view is pretty, I
> stair-step down, dropping fast near idle, the levelling at cruise
> throttle. It drives them crazy!
> Guy Buchanan
Thanks for the reply Guy. I have the adjustable "Sparrow needles" and am still
learning how to use them to keep the EGT's under control in a descent with partial
power.
It is easy...for me anyhow...to get confused and forget how many turns on the needle
adjustments I have made then which way to turn the knobs to correct a rough
engine when I get it out of wack.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215170#215170
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Darin, good looking fairings
John Kerr
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
>
> Rick,
>
> Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out
> great.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215156#215156
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2676_large_193.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2674_large_466.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<html><body>
<DIV>Darin, good looking fairings</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John Kerr</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net> <BR><BR>> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "darinh" <GERNS25@NETSCAPE.NET><BR>> <BR>> Rick, <BR>> <BR>> Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out <BR>> great. <BR>> <BR>> -------- <BR>> Darin Hawkes <BR>> Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing) <BR>> 914 Turbo <BR>> Kaysville, Utah <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Read this topic online here: <BR>> <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215156#215156 <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Attachments: <BR>> <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2676_large_193.jpg <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100.jpg <BR>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2674_large_466.jpg <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
; <BR>
more:
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Dean
you did a really nice job of those fairings
Gary Algate
Classic 4 jab 2200
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
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telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
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this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
20/11/2008 04:53 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
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Subject
Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit
Rick,
Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn
out great.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215156#215156
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2676_large_193.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2674_large_466.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
Just for interest sake the IVO In-Flight adjustable prop also gives you
good control over EGT's.
By coarsing up in cruise you can lower the EGT's significantly and also by
going to a fine pitch in descent helps lower EGT's
Gary Algate
Classic4 Jab2200A
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
20/11/2008 06:26 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
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kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Kitfox-List: Re: A Fun Flight
> With the HACman system you install rich mains, to give you
> something to lean off. I run 180's here in San Diego. The mid range
> is kept as-is so when you go moderately down hill you end up in the
> mid-range jets with the prop pushing the engine and therefore very
> lean. The only way to go down hill without getting too lean is to
> either go slow, or descend slowly, or pull the throttle way back and
> drop like a rock. Usually I do shallow controlled descents, but when
> I'm trying to stay with my 912 buddies, or the view is pretty, I
> stair-step down, dropping fast near idle, the levelling at cruise
> throttle. It drives them crazy!
> Guy Buchanan
Thanks for the reply Guy. I have the adjustable "Sparrow needles" and am
still learning how to use them to keep the EGT's under control in a
descent with partial power.
It is easy...for me anyhow...to get confused and forget how many turns on
the needle adjustments I have made then which way to turn the knobs to
correct a rough engine when I get it out of wack.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215170#215170
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
On Wed, November 19, 2008 8:12 am, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 06:34 PM 11/18/2008, you wrote:
> With the HACman system you install rich mains, to give you
> something to lean off. I run 180's here in San Diego. The mid range
> is kept as-is so when you go moderately down hill you end up in the
> mid-range jets with the prop pushing the engine and therefore very
> lean. The only way to go down hill without getting too lean is to
> either go slow, or descend slowly, or pull the throttle way back and
> drop like a rock. Usually I do shallow controlled descents, but when
> I'm trying to stay with my 912 buddies, or the view is pretty, I
> stair-step down, dropping fast near idle, the levelling at cruise
> throttle. It drives them crazy!
A prop clutch has been mentioned a few times on the list here. Wouldn't that solve
this problem and also make less engine shaking when you shut down too?
With a clutch on the prop it wouldn't drive the engine so lubrication would still
be
maintained correctly.
Just a thought. Id like to know.
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
>
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
On Wed, November 19, 2008 10:16 am, darinh wrote:
> Here are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time, they will turn out
great.
Wow! Super nice work!
How many layers of cloth? What filler did you use? Epoxy?
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Paul,
I use West Systems epoxy for all my layups and the cloth I used for this was 5
or 6 oz. I think. I cut it into 2"-3" strips and layed it up that way because
the compound curves made it a bit difficult for a solid piece of cloth. For
the filler, I used ultra lightweight body filler (lightweight bondo). You could
also use Superfil but it takes much longer to cure and for simply filling in
small amounts, bondo is great and cures in 5 minutes and is ready to sand.
If you are more patient than I am, the correct way to fill the weave is to brush
3 or so coats of thinned epoxy resin over the finished product or make a female
mold. I figured for these small parts, the time to make female molds then
pull the parts would be much longer and much more work than simply filling,
sanding, priming, sanding and topcoat.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215194#215194
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
At 04:01 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote:
>With a clutch on the prop it wouldn't drive the engine so
>lubrication would still be
>maintained correctly.
The clutch is strictly centrifugal. Any time the engine's
above 2700 rpm it's locked solid, regardless of whether the engine's
doing the pushing or the prop. In order to get it to disengage in the
air you have to slow to below about 50 mph, then it will disengage
and you can descend with the engine at idle. I try not to do this
because I worry about the instantaneous heating associated with
re-engagement, when the engine rpm doesn't match the prop rpm very well.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: A Fun Flight |
On Wed, November 19, 2008 5:48 pm, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 04:01 PM 11/19/2008, you wrote:
>>With a clutch on the prop it wouldn't drive the engine so
>>lubrication would still be
>>maintained correctly.
>
> The clutch is strictly centrifugal. Any time the engine's
> above 2700 rpm it's locked solid, regardless of whether the engine's
> doing the pushing or the prop. In order to get it to disengage in the
> air you have to slow to below about 50 mph, then it will disengage
> and you can descend with the engine at idle. I try not to do this
> because I worry about the instantaneous heating associated with
> re-engagement, when the engine rpm doesn't match the prop rpm very well.
I didn't know that. I thought it was a dog and pawl setup. Anyway, it sounds to
me as
long as the rpm difference is less than 2700 rpm then you'd be OK as apparently
that's
what it's designed for. So, as an example, assume you slowed the engine and prop
to
less than 2700 rpm so the clutch would disengage then let the engine go to idle,
then
the resume descent then the prop rpm might go over 2700 rpm but wouldn't go so
fast
that the tips went supersonic. You'd really hear that. You could calculate that
rpm
given the diameter and assume that the speed of sound is 1100 fps.
Supersonic RPM = (1100 FPS * 60 Sec/Min) / (Dia [FT] * PI)
then say you had a 68" dia prop,
Supersonic RPM = (1100 * 60) / ((68/12) * 3.14159)
= 3707 RPM
So, it would seem to me that as soon as you hit the throttle, the engine would
not
engage the clutch until something just below 2700 rpm and the prop would not be
going
more than 1000 rpm or so faster than that. You'd know for sure it was supersonic
by
the really loud beating noise that happens when the prop tips go supersonic. You'd
be
safe since you know the rpm difference can be 2700 as that is what you have when
you
start the engine to begin with. Prop is going zero rpm and the engine gets close
to
2700 rpm when the centrifugal clutch engages and that's apparently the design so
I
don't think you'd have to worry about re-engaging the clutch when the rpm difference
is that low, albeit in this case the prop is going faster than the engine rather
than
the engine going faster than the prop as in the case of start up. (Whew, long
sentence, should break it up)
My point is, that if you release the clutch in flight then re-engage, the load
on the
clutch isn't going to be nearly as high as it is at start-up.
It would bother me to have the prop disengaged from the engine in flight because
then
you're depending on the starter to work in case the engine dies and the windmilling
prop would be no assistance what-so-ever.
So, if you don't do your technique of descending in steps, what is the maximum
descent
rate you can have to stay within recommended EGT and Cyl Hd temperatures at some
low
power setting such as 25%? I could live with 1000 fpm descent fine and even 500
fpm
would be workable given the relatively low ground speed.
Some time back, actually many years ago, there was a debate about using pre-mix
vs
auto oil injection. I thought that the auto oil injection was rpm dependent vs
air
flow so that this effect would be automatically compensated for. Apparently not
because the EGT still is rising too high and the only way to control that is by
adding
excess fuel. But maybe, when the engine isn't under load, the allowable EGT can
be a
little higher. You're probably saying "not with my pistons!"
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Darin=2C How did you get cloth to stay up on underside of wing? Did you go
beyond area needed and tape it up before applying resin?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Windshield fit> From: gerns25@nets
cape.net> Date: Wed=2C 19 Nov 2008 18:06:16 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronic
> > Paul=2C> > I use West Systems epoxy for all my layups and the cloth I u
sed for this was 5 or 6 oz. I think. I cut it into 2"-3" strips and layed i
t up that way because the compound curves made it a bit difficult for a sol
id piece of cloth. For the filler=2C I used ultra lightweight body filler (
lightweight bondo). You could also use Superfil but it takes much longer to
cure and for simply filling in small amounts=2C bondo is great and cures i
n 5 minutes and is ready to sand. If you are more patient than I am=2C the
correct way to fill the weave is to brush 3 or so coats of thinned epoxy re
sin over the finished product or make a female mold. I figured for these sm
all parts=2C the time to make female molds then pull the parts would be muc
h longer and much more work than simply filling=2C sanding=2C priming=2C sa
nding and topcoat.> > --------> Darin Hawkes> Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Te
sting)> 914 Turbo> Kaysville=2C Utah> > > > > Read this topic online here:>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215194#215194> > > > > > >
===============> > >
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit |
Darin=2C I have fooled around with fiberglass building canoes and Corvette
bodywork=2C you have done an outstanting job on those farings. You have to
remove them to fold wing=2C correct?
Pat Reilly
From: MDKitfox@aol.comTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Re
: Windshield fitDate: Wed=2C 19 Nov 2008 14:20:33 -0500Darin=2C
I looked at the photos and honestly=2C you did an outstanding job! The lis
ters ought to take a look at these photos. I'm encouraged. If mine turn o
ut half as good I'd be pleased.
Thanks=2C
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster=2C 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange=2C FL
On Nov 19=2C 2008=2C at 1:16 PM=2C darinh wrote:
re are some pics of my fairings. If you take your time=2C they will turn o
ut great.--------Darin HawkesSeries 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)914 TurboKa
ysville=2C UtahRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/view
topic.php?p=215156#215156Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/
dscf2676_large_193.jpghttp://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2675_large_100
.jpghttp://forumsp=3B (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!)<brsp=3B
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