Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:08 AM - Just A Few More Days... (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:58 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (patrick reilly)
2. 08:07 AM - What a ride (fluff) (fox5flyer)
3. 08:11 AM - Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
4. 08:17 AM - Re: What a ride (fluff) (Bob Brennan)
5. 08:36 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Bob Brennan)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: What a ride (fluff) (Rick)
7. 09:42 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (JetPilot)
8. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22 (Noel Loveys)
9. 10:09 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE (Roger Cornwell)
11. 10:27 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Bob Brennan)
12. 10:31 AM - Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE (JetPilot)
13. 10:40 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (Lowell Fitt)
14. 11:05 AM - Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE (raya)
15. 11:11 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (jdmcbean)
16. 11:25 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (fox5flyer)
17. 11:32 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (Clint Bazzill)
18. 12:02 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (Bob Brennan)
19. 12:02 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michel Verheughe)
20. 12:07 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Bob Brennan)
21. 12:44 PM - Re: Rotax 912UL no start (rcsfca)
22. 12:50 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
23. 01:07 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
24. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (jdmcbean)
25. 01:34 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (Lynn Matteson)
26. 02:04 PM - New Skis - Was Elevator Trim (Marco Menezes)
27. 02:05 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (fox5flyer)
28. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Trim (patrick reilly)
29. 04:12 PM - Re: New Skis - Was Elevator Trim (Lynn Matteson)
30. 04:16 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
31. 04:34 PM - Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE (n61kf)
32. 05:32 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michael Gibbs)
33. 05:34 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
34. 07:00 PM - Re: Elevator Trim (JetPilot)
35. 07:26 PM - Re: Re: Rotax 912UL no start (Noel Loveys)
36. 07:47 PM - Kitrfox Crash (Jim Crowder)
37. 08:01 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
38. 08:16 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
39. 10:26 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
40. 10:32 PM - Elevator Trim question (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
41. 11:48 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michel Verheughe)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days... |
Dear Listers,
There are just a few more days left in this year's List Fund Raiser. There are
some great gifts available when you make a qualifying Contribution and there's
plenty still available. Don't forget that its *your* Contribution that keeps
the computers running, the electricity turned on, and the computer room AC cooling!
If you look forward to reading your List email each day, won't you please take
a minute right now to make your personal Contribution?
Credit Card or Paypal:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Personal Check:
Matronics / Matt Dralle
PO Box 347
Livermore, CA 94550
Thank you for your support!
Matt Dralle
Message 1
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Lowell=2C Your catelog listing includes installation of trim. Are you going
to offer the parts in a kit for us do-it-yourselfers=2C if so when will it
be available?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim> Date: Tue=2C 25 Nov 2008 15:29:19 -080
>> > To the list.> > Mark and I are finally able to offer the elevator trim
tab retrofit for > Model IV and earlier model Kitrfoxes. What we do is a d
erivative of what > Rans provides for elevator trim - retaining the flat el
evator and covering > the servo with a custom made fiberglass bubble cover.
Nothing is visible > from the top of the elavator=2C except=2C of course t
he trim tab. See: > http://highwingllc.com/elevatortrim.html for details.>
> Lowell Fitt> Cameron Park=2C CA> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL> Currently focusi
ng on the Left Wing=2C Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing Gear > Fairing and
===> > >
Message 2
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| Subject: | What a ride (fluff) |
Since things are pretty slow and auto engine conversions have been the
topic...
I was sent this by someone suggesting that I need this Subaru engine in
my S5. Pretty impressive. Click link below.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
do not archive
http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_i
d 4&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0
Message 3
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
problem, and what kind of engine?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | What a ride (fluff) |
530 hp in a Kitfox... now we're talkin!!
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: 26 November 2008 11:07 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: What a ride (fluff)
Since things are pretty slow and auto engine conversions have been the
topic...
I was sent this by someone suggesting that I need this Subaru engine in my
S5. Pretty impressive. Click link below.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
do not archive
<http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id
204&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0>
http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_id=2
04&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0
Message 5
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
"The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop the plane
before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser said.
From
http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-boulder-m
unicipal-airport/
Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-the-floor
and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
problem, and what kind of engine?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | What a ride (fluff) |
Yep, seen that before. Of course you would need a six blade prop with
cords wider than two hands, and a rudder as big as a wing. But hey that
would be a fun toy to have in the corner of the hanger. Looks like that
might have been shot at the old Tustin LTA air base.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: 2008-11-26 08:17
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: What a ride (fluff)
530 hp in a Kitfox... now we're talkin!!
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: 26 November 2008 11:07 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: What a ride (fluff)
Since things are pretty slow and auto engine conversions have been the
topic...
I was sent this by someone suggesting that I need this Subaru engine in
my S5. Pretty impressive. Click link below.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
do not archive
<http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor
_id 4&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0>
http://video.kenblockracing.com/flash/small_player/preloader.swf?vendor_
id 4&media_id=9183&bgcolor=FFFFFF&autoplay=0
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
The parts is what I would be interested in. That is obviously a business venture
for them and I would be very happy to pay a fair price for the parts together
and them making the fiberglass fairing and make a profit.
Most of us work on our own planes, it just makes no sense to pay shipping to send
in the entire elevator, pay shipping for return, and pay for work that we could
do ourselves. I really like what they have done, but it seems they are
trying to make more money doing the work than selling the parts.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216401#216401
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22 |
You have to admit there are a lot of them flying though... Subies, Mazda
Wankels and even Suzuki/Geo engines. I think I draw the line when I see B&S
engines but they are being tried too.
All aircraft engines are to an extent derated. That is why you get less
than 500 hp from a 500ci turbocharged engine. If I was going to use a Subie
I'd derate it by a good percentage and limit the rpm to no more than 5000.
You are right on the fact the engines are designed to be used in cars but
that particular application has to be just about the most punishing
application going. As you no doubt know highway driving is a lot easier on
a car than around town. To me is comes down to this what do I like better
1920's design and engineering... not to mention in some cases rebuilt parts
or Millenium engineering and production... except for the redundancy aspect
that's a no brainer. For the type of fluying most people do I think the
latter is not only sufficient but a good choice. However if you are the
pilot who ventures deep into the boonies then the redundancy of earlier
engines is the way to go.
That's why I could never suggest the use of automotive engines in certified
planes.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Engine choice- O-200 or EJ 22
It makes absolutely no difference if the Subaru was originally designed as
an airplane engine 50 year ago or not. The reality is now that the Subuaru
that the poster is thinking about using in his Kitfox is a CAR engine,
designed and built to run in a car, not an airplane. Even IF it were true
that some engines started life in aviation 50 years ago, the aviation
engineering that were put into the engine would have long ago been taken out
by an auto manufacturer. The modern Subaru engine parts were designed to
be run in a car at around 20 % power for long periods, not at the long 100 %
climbs and 70 % cruise power used in an airplane.
Bottom line, the history of the engine does not mean anything, the modern
design is for a car, and you will have to do a lot of engineering to make it
work at all in a plane, and chances are it will still probably never be
reliable. Many people with a lot more talent and engineering resources than
you have tried to make these engines reliable for aviation use and failed.
It would be best to learn from their experiences.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216225#216225
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with
this poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it
must've been a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : )
Hell, if it had been a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> "The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop
> the plane
> before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser said.
>
> From
> http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-
> boulder-m
> unicipal-airport/
>
> Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-
> the-floor
> and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
> Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
> They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
> down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
> problem, and what kind of engine?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE |
Hello Keith
>
> Can you tell me the exact designation of the Ivoprop you have decided?
> to sell? Something like UR368+E?
>
>> Does the prop come with the electric motor, spinner and all other
> parts needed for installation? Are the leading edges stainless steel
> option? What is the complete weight of all the parts?
>
>
> Thanks, I am looking for an in flight adjustable prop for my Mk 4 with
> speedster wings
roger
Message 11
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Not that I have nothing better to do... But I like doing research in cases
like this. The best I can tell is that the pilot is from Guatamala, had just
bought the airplane and was flying it for the first time to another airport
where he was going to put it on a trailer and take it home. So no info as to
the registered owner or N number. There was only one Classic IV Kitfox
registered in that county and it is listed as Engine Type: reciprocating,
Make and Model: Rotax(all), whatever that means! Also apparently the pilot
left the scene very quickly with no comment, refusing treatment.
Again, no offense to the poor guy and his mishap, but I'm guessing it had
nothing to do with the airplane or the engine. Just my opinion[smirk] on a
day when I should be doing something more productive...[smirk again]
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 26 November 2008 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with
this poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it
must've been a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : )
Hell, if it had been a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> "The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop
> the plane
> before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser said.
>
> From
> http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-
> boulder-m
> unicipal-airport/
>
> Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-
> the-floor
> and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
> Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
> They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
> down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
> problem, and what kind of engine?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE |
clint_bazzill(at)hotmail. wrote:
> Keep your prop. Regs say ground adjustable C doesn't say mechanical or electrical.
Put the switch in the engine compartment. Do not put CAP or inflight adjustable
in your log book. Put in ground adjustable electric.
>
Thats what I would do ! Of course sooner or later that switch would find its way
into my cockpit [Wink]
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216415#216415
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
Good question, Patrick. Our initial idea was that most owners won't have
the jigging and welding capability. We have three out there as presented.
The parts kit is a good idea and I we will work on that. As for timing,
maybe a week or so to figure costs as this week will include Thanksgiving in
Kansas City.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:57 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim
Lowell, Your catelog listing includes installation of trim. Are you going to
offer the parts in a kit for us do-it-yourselfers, if so when will it be
available?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:29:19 -0800>
To the list.> > Mark and I are finally able to offer the elevator trim tab
retrofit for > Model IV and earlier model Kitrfoxes. What we do is a
derivative of what > Rans provides for elevator trim - retaining the flat
elevator and covering > the servo with a custom made fiberglass bubble
cover. Nothing is visible > from the top of the elavator, except, of course
the trim tab. See: > http://highwingllc.com/elevatortrim.html for details.>
> Lowell Fitt> Cameron Park, CA> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL> Currently focusing
on the Left Wing, Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing Gear > Fairing and===> >
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE |
keith
what is your phone number re the ivo prop?
i am interested, but thought that Ivo recomended 68 inch for a 912 speedster wings
They gave me a number of UR368+E ?
thanks
roger MK 4 912 with speedster wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216421#216421
Message 15
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
NSI with a CAP 140
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with this
poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it must've been
a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : ) Hell, if it had been
a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> "The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop the
> plane before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser
> said.
>
> From
> http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-
> boulder-m
> unicipal-airport/
>
> Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-
> the-floor and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
> Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
> They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
> down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
> problem, and what kind of engine?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
...or a soobie :-)
D
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with
> this poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it
> must've been a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : )
> Hell, if it had been a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
Message 17
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Lowell=2C I think a kit would be great. The Model 1=2C 2=2C and 3's would
probably benefit greatly. I just put the large elevator for the 4 on mine
=2C have about 25 hours on it now. The shipping for my elevator was about
$90=2C that isn't that far as I live near San Fransisco. So round trip far
e for an elevator would be over $200=2C that would pay for a lot of welding
. My 2 cents worth=2C P.S. lookis like a nce setup for elevator with no ri
bs.
Clint
Model IV=2C 912S with 1400 hours.
> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: K
itfox-List: Elevator Trim> Date: Wed=2C 26 Nov 2008 10:37:04 -0800> > --> K
itfox-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>> > Good
question=2C Patrick. Our initial idea was that most owners won't have > the
jigging and welding capability. We have three out there as presented. > Th
e parts kit is a good idea and I we will work on that. As for timing=2C > m
aybe a week or so to figure costs as this week will include Thanksgiving in
> Kansas City.> > Lowell> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "patrick
reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>> To: "kitfox matronics" <kitfox-list@matr
onics.com>> Sent: Wednesday=2C November 26=2C 2008 7:57 AM> Subject: RE: Ki
tfox-List: Elevator Trim> > > > Lowell=2C Your catelog listing includes ins
tallation of trim. Are you going to > offer the parts in a kit for us do-it
-yourselfers=2C if so when will it be > available?> > Pat Reilly> Mod 3 582
Rebuild> Rockford=2C IL> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matro
nics.com> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim> Date: Tue=2C 25 Nov 2008 1
@sbcglobal.net>> > > To the list.> > Mark and I are finally able to offer t
he elevator trim tab > retrofit for > Model IV and earlier model Kitrfoxes.
What we do is a > derivative of what > Rans provides for elevator trim - r
etaining the flat > elevator and covering > the servo with a custom made fi
berglass bubble > cover. Nothing is visible > from the top of the elavator
=2C except=2C of course > the trim tab. See: > http://highwingllc.com/eleva
tortrim.html for details.> > > Lowell Fitt> Cameron Park=2C CA> Model IV-12
00 R-912 UL> Currently focusing > on the Left Wing=2C Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs
========================> _
=========> > >
Message 18
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The UK Kitfoxes have a nearly identical setup as part of the build, although
Lowell's tab appears to be just a bit bigger which is a good idea. The UK
setup uses a simple cable with friction-wheel up front, less to go wrong.
Personally I can't see flying a Kitfox without a trim tab - it frees up the
flaps to be flaps and puts horizontal trim where it belongs - way out on the
pitch axis rather than just behind the C of G where it's way too much drag.
Once installed you'll wonder how you ever flew without it. Great work
Lowell.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: 26 November 2008 2:31 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim
Lowell, I think a kit would be great. The Model 1, 2, and 3's would
probably benefit greatly. I just put the large elevator for the 4 on mine,
have about 25 hours on it now. The shipping for my elevator was about $90,
that isn't that far as I live near San Fransisco. So round trip fare for an
elevator would be over $200, that would pay for a lot of welding. My 2
cents worth, P.S. lookis like a nce setup for elevator with no ribs.
Clint
Model IV, 912S with 1400 hours.
> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim
> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 10:37:04 -0800
>
>
> Good question, Patrick. Our initial idea was that most owners won't have
> the jigging and welding capability. We have three out there as presented.
> The parts kit is a good idea and I we will work on that. As for timing,
> maybe a week or so to figure costs as this week will include Thanksgiving
in
> Kansas City.
>
> Lowell
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrick reilly" <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
> To: "kitfox matronics" <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:57 AM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim
>
>
>
> Lowell, Your catelog listing includes installation of trim. Are you going
to
> offer the parts in a kit for us do-it-yourselfers, if so when will it be
> available?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL> From: lcfitt@sbcglobal.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:29:19
-0800>
>
> To the list.> > Mark and I are finally able to offer the elevator trim tab
> retrofit for > Model IV and earlier model Kitrfoxes. What we do is a
> derivative of what > Rans provides for elevator trim - retaining the flat
> elevator and covering > the servo with a custom made fiberglass bubble
> cover. Nothing is visible > from the top of the elavator, except, of
course
> the trim tab. See: > http://highwingllc.com/elevatortrim.html for
details.>
> > Lowell Fitt> Cameron Park, CA> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL> Currently
focusing
> on the Left Wing, Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing Gear > Fairing and===>
>
> >
>=====================
>==
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
> From: Bob Brennan [matronics@bob.brennan.name]
> Propeller went in reverse??
When I got my heart attack in July and lost my pilot license, I was preparing my
big annual trip to Belgium planned for the 6th of Sept. Then a Finnish friend
told me he would come and pick me up with his homebuilt Europa plane. As September
can close and I didn't hear from him; knowing he was already on an European
tour, the news came in:
His propeller went into reverse as he took off from an Austrian airfield and crashed
at the end of the runway. His plane bursted in flames and he made it but
... suffered severe third degree burns and lost an eye.
So yes, apparently those things can happen with in-flight pitch adjustable props.
... and no, Lynn, it was surely not a Jabiru engine; we can't have variable pitch
props.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 - flying sometimes as a PAX
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
CAP stands for "Cockpit Adjustable Propeller" for those like me who have to
look it up.
Sounds like the first-time pilot may have adjusted the prop too flat for
takeoff? Can those props be feathered?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: 26 November 2008 2:11 pm
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
NSI with a CAP 140
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with this
poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it must've been
a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : ) Hell, if it had been
a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> "The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop the
> plane before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser
> said.
>
> From
> http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-
> boulder-m
> unicipal-airport/
>
> Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-
> the-floor and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
> Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
> They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
> down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
> problem, and what kind of engine?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912UL no start |
Even though several months have passed since you heard about the problem, it was
not actually solved until 10 days ago. We tried each of the numerous suggestions
that were offered but in the end, I had to have a technician from California
Power Systems, the western U.S. distributor for Rotax, come out to my hangar
(at Concord, CA (CCR) ) and go through the problem.
Up to that point, I put a lot of attention on the battery (new Odyssey plus an
aviation-designed trickle charger from VDC) and the fuel. Neither changed the
no-start although the cranking was top-notch!
When the tech came out, he took about an hour, with instruments to determine that
both of the Ducati ignition modules were not working, but for different reasons.
One of them was completely out of service and had to be replaced. The other
had corrosion on several of the leads buried in that wiring stack that sits
next to the modules. The corrosion was cleaned up, and guess what happened?
It started immediately (and continues to start immediately), within seconds of
cranking. We re-balanced the carbs and the work was done. The Ducati unit was
$800 and the labor (welcome to California) was $400.
In a way, I wish the problem had been something that you Kitfox detectives cleverly
knew about and could have been fixed without the tech (and without the $1200
parts and labor) but the plane is 15 years old now and, well, you know how
it goes. At least we don't have to haul our planes out of the water every year
and scrape barnacles off the bottom...
Thanks again,
Rich Cunningham
Model IV-1200 912UL
SF East Bay (CCR)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216436#216436
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Good thing us "minorities" have thick skins, eh, D? : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:25 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> ...or a soobie :-)
>
> D
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
>> Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun
>> (with this poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the
>> conclusion that it must've been a Rotax because none of you guys
>> are mentioning it. : ) Hell, if it had been a "J" engine, you
>> guys would be all over it. : )
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
>> ignition system;
>> also building a new pair of snow skis
>> do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Of all the repots that were posted in all the newspapers, there was
no mention of engines (other than "it failed") or of propellors...in-
flight adjustable or otherwise. Sounds like JD probably has the best
answer, as I would bet that the press has kept his phone busy trying
to find out all the "dirty laundry" on this incident, although all
the reports that Google came up with sound like a rehash of the same
old, same old....
Speaking of adjustable propellors....maybe the FAA made a good
decision barring us Sport Pilots from adjusting props, at least while
in the air, or even allowing us to have "automatic shift" props. I
can just hear their arguments: "Give 'em a twisted piece of wood, and
that's all they get! Those low-hour trainees will have all they can
do to wiggle the stick."
Wait a minute, Michel.....Sensenich now makes a ground-adjustable
prop for the Jabiru AND the Rotax. It's been out for a couple of
years now, so Sensenich tells me, although their website says (as of
August 2008) that this new prop is "in flight testing." I pointed
this out to a guy at their booth at Oshkosh, and he was slightly
chagrined at this news....he's in charge of the website. It
apparently uses composite blades that are centrifugally cast, if I
recall the blurb correctly.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 26, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Bob Brennan [matronics@bob.brennan.name]
>> Propeller went in reverse??
>
> When I got my heart attack in July and lost my pilot license, I was
> preparing my big annual trip to Belgium planned for the 6th of
> Sept. Then a Finnish friend told me he would come and pick me up
> with his homebuilt Europa plane. As September can close and I
> didn't hear from him; knowing he was already on an European tour,
> the news came in:
> His propeller went into reverse as he took off from an Austrian
> airfield and crashed at the end of the runway. His plane bursted in
> flames and he made it but ... suffered severe third degree burns
> and lost an eye.
> So yes, apparently those things can happen with in-flight pitch
> adjustable props.
> ... and no, Lynn, it was surely not a Jabiru engine; we can't have
> variable pitch props.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 - flying sometimes as a PAX
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Maybe I should elaborate a little..
Talked with the FAA yesterday.. It was a NSI with a CAP 140 IFA (In Flight
Adjustable) Prop.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Of all the repots that were posted in all the newspapers, there was no
mention of engines (other than "it failed") or of propellors...in- flight
adjustable or otherwise. Sounds like JD probably has the best answer, as I
would bet that the press has kept his phone busy trying to find out all the
"dirty laundry" on this incident, although all the reports that Google came
up with sound like a rehash of the same old, same old....
Speaking of adjustable propellors....maybe the FAA made a good decision
barring us Sport Pilots from adjusting props, at least while
in the air, or even allowing us to have "automatic shift" props. I
can just hear their arguments: "Give 'em a twisted piece of wood, and that's
all they get! Those low-hour trainees will have all they can do to wiggle
the stick."
Wait a minute, Michel.....Sensenich now makes a ground-adjustable prop for
the Jabiru AND the Rotax. It's been out for a couple of years now, so
Sensenich tells me, although their website says (as of August 2008) that
this new prop is "in flight testing." I pointed this out to a guy at their
booth at Oshkosh, and he was slightly chagrined at this news....he's in
charge of the website. It apparently uses composite blades that are
centrifugally cast, if I recall the blurb correctly.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 26, 2008, at 3:01 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Bob Brennan [matronics@bob.brennan.name]
>> Propeller went in reverse??
>
> When I got my heart attack in July and lost my pilot license, I was
> preparing my big annual trip to Belgium planned for the 6th of
> Sept. Then a Finnish friend told me he would come and pick me up
> with his homebuilt Europa plane. As September can close and I
> didn't hear from him; knowing he was already on an European tour,
> the news came in:
> His propeller went into reverse as he took off from an Austrian
> airfield and crashed at the end of the runway. His plane bursted in
> flames and he made it but ... suffered severe third degree burns
> and lost an eye.
> So yes, apparently those things can happen with in-flight pitch
> adjustable props.
> ... and no, Lynn, it was surely not a Jabiru engine; we can't have
> variable pitch props.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 - flying sometimes as a PAX
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
Now Lowell, that you're all done engineering the elevator trim, how
'bout working on a rudder trim that can be slid under the skin of a
completed and painted plane, such that the installer doesn't have to
weld anything, and the subsequent "damage" to the fabric consists of
nothing more than maybe taping over a slit in the fabric...with
orange tape, of course. If that sounds a little too selfish, I'd
allow for any other color tape to be used. (This will give you
something to dream about while recovering from the intake of too much
tryptophan in Kansas City tomorrow....Happy Thanksgiving, everybody)
And it will free up my time to work on my new skis. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> Lowell, I think a kit would be great. The Model 1, 2, and 3's
> would probably benefit greatly. I just put the large elevator for
> the 4 on mine, have about 25 hours on it now. The shipping for my
> elevator was about $90, that isn't that far as I live near San
> Fransisco. So round trip fare for an elevator would be over $200,
> that would pay for a lot of welding. My 2 cents worth, P.S. lookis
> like a nce setup for elevator with no ribs.
>
> Clint
>
> Model IV, 912S with 1400 hours.
Message 26
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| Subject: | New Skis - Was Elevator Trim |
What's wrong with your old Skis Lynn? Seems like I recall you just modified
them last winter with longer tips to jump snow piles. ;-)
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
not flying, no heat, no skis :-(
-
do not archive
--- On Wed, 11/26/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Trim
Now Lowell, that you're all done engineering the elevator trim, how
'bout working on a rudder trim that can be slid under the skin of a
completed and painted plane, such that the installer doesn't have to weld
anything, and the subsequent "damage" to the fabric consists of
nothing more than maybe taping over a slit in the fabric...with orange tape
, of
course. If that sounds a little too selfish, I'd allow for any other color
tape to be used. (This will give you something to dream about while recover
ing
from the intake of too much tryptophan in Kansas City tomorrow....Happy
Thanksgiving, everybody) And it will free up my time to work on my new skis
. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 2:30 PM, Clint Bazzill wrote:
> Lowell, I think a kit would be great. The Model 1, 2, and 3's would
probably benefit greatly. I just put the large elevator for the 4 on mine,
have
about 25 hours on it now. The shipping for my elevator was about $90, that
isn't that far as I live near San Fransisco. So round trip fare for an
elevator would be over $200, that would pay for a lot of welding. My 2 cen
ts
worth, P.S. lookis like a nce setup for elevator with no ribs.
>
> Clint
>
> Model IV, 912S with 1400 hours.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
In-Flight adjustable props are really no big deal, but it is one more
control function that is added to the normal mix of things that have to paid
attention to during critical phases of flight, especially during takeoff.
Take an inexperienced pilot, in an unfamiliar airplane, at an unfamiliar
airport, possibly having never used a cockpit adj prop before, you have a
recipe for a situation that can quickly get out of control. But, not
having all the facts in this case, we're just speculating and arm chair
quarter backing. The fortunate thing here is that he walked away from it
and there was no property or people damage, nor much left of that airplane!
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 3:06 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> CAP stands for "Cockpit Adjustable Propeller" for those like me who have
> to
> look it up.
>
> Sounds like the first-time pilot may have adjusted the prop too flat for
> takeoff? Can those props be feathered?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
> Sent: 26 November 2008 2:11 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> <jdmcbean@kitfoxaircraft.com>
>
> NSI with a CAP 140
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:10 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> Well, being that nobody was hurt, and we can have a little fun (with this
> poor guy's mishap), I've already come to the conclusion that it must've
> been
> a Rotax because none of you guys are mentioning it. : ) Hell, if it had
> been
> a "J" engine, you guys would be all over it. : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2008, at 11:29 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>>
>> "The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop the
>> plane before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser
>> said.
>>
>> From
>> http://www.coloradodaily.com/news/2008/nov/24/plane-crash-reported-
>> boulder-m
>> unicipal-airport/
>>
>> Propeller went in reverse?? Maybe he used a car engine with 4-on-
>> the-floor and shifted wrong... [kidding of course]
>>
>> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>> Wrightsville Pa
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: 26 November 2008 11:12 am
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>>
>>
>> Nobody seems to have mentioned the Kitfox that crash-landed in
>> Boulder, Colorado. I got the alert from Google a couple of days ago.
>> They said it was an engine problem that caused the pilot to put it
>> down...he wasn't hurt. Anybody near there know what kind of engine
>> problem, and what kind of engine?
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
>> system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
Mike=2C I don't know what you have purchased from Lowell=2C but in my coupl
e of purchases he has bent over backward to be of service and willing to he
lp me save $. If I had designed the trim assembly=2C was in a bind for inco
me=2C and had plenty of demand to install=2C I might not spend the time to
service guys like me that want to install their own. But=2C I'm willing to
bet you Lowell makes the kit available for guys like you and me first chanc
e he gets.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Trim> From: orcabonita@
hotmail.com> Date: Wed=2C 26 Nov 2008 09:42:25 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matro
il.com>> > The parts is what I would be interested in. That is obviously a
business venture for them and I would be very happy to pay a fair price for
the parts together and them making the fiberglass fairing and make a profi
t. > > Most of us work on our own planes=2C it just makes no sense to pay s
hipping to send in the entire elevator=2C pay shipping for return=2C and pa
y for work that we could do ourselves. I really like what they have done=2C
but it seems they are trying to make more money doing the work than sellin
g the parts.> > Mike> > --------> "=3BNO FEAR"=3B - If you have no
fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!> > Kolb MK-III Xtra=2C 91
2-S> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vi
====> > >
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: New Skis - Was Elevator Trim |
That modification was just a brace so that I could blast through
those pesky ice/snow piles without altering the shape of the skis on
the fly. :)
I've wanted to make a pair of skis that would have no ski right
behind the wheel, so any snow that the tire kicked up would have no
ski to land on. As it was, the ski right behind the tire acted like a
"cheese slicer", scooping up snow. And I think that the 1 3/4" or so
of wheel penetration is too much..at least according to some other
skis I've seen. When I almost got stuck in 9" of snow last year, I
decided I needed to make some changes. I'm also changing the
mounting, so that the ski will install without having to raise the
plane.
Geez, I just had to buy some socket-head cap screws, airplane grade,
and they were over $3 each...stinkin' 1/4" bolts, 2'' long...sheesh!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 26, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Marco Menezes wrote:
> What's wrong with your old Skis Lynn? Seems like I recall you just
> modified them last winter with longer tips to jump snow piles. ;-)
>
> Marco Menezes N99KX
> Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
> not flying, no heat, no skis :-(
>
> do not archive
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
change it to cruise when you get there....no?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 26, 2008, at 5:04 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> In-Flight adjustable props are really no big deal, but it is one
> more control function that is added to the normal mix of things
> that have to paid attention to during critical phases of flight,
> especially during takeoff. Take an inexperienced pilot, in an
> unfamiliar airplane, at an unfamiliar airport, possibly having
> never used a cockpit adj prop before, you have a recipe for a
> situation that can quickly get out of control. But, not having
> all the facts in this case, we're just speculating and arm chair
> quarter backing. The fortunate thing here is that he walked away
> from it and there was no property or people damage, nor much left
> of that airplane!
> Deke Morisse
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE |
The propeller is model number UR370+PE. It is complete, with electric hub, blades,
with stainless leading edge protection, wiring harness with switch and breaker.
Ivo skull cap spinner + 9"UHS fiberglass spinner, which has been fitted
to the prop. and the internal prop control conversion.
The prop hub and blades weigh 9 lbs. The UHS spinner weighs 1 lb. and the wiring
harness, with switch and breaker + the internal prop control weigh 1 lb.
All these items were purchased through Murle Williams Aviation, and I followed
his recommendations on sizing.
I can be reached at 513-897-4311
--------
Keith
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216472#216472
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Lynn sez:
>I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
>during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
>change it to cruise when you get there....no?
I had a Rotax 912S with an Ivo medium in-flight adjustable prop on my
model IV, Lynn. With no prop pitch indication you can't precisely
set the pitch for best takeoff power beforehand. If I ran it all the
way flat then added full power, the RPM would go too high, so I knew
I had to pull the pitch in a little bit from that point. After a
while you could get pretty close with cranking it all the way flat
then pressing the switch the other way and counting, "One thousand
one, one thousand two..."
That said, it wasn't unusual for me to be rolling (even though the
ground roll was very short) and tapping the switch up or down a
little to get takeoff RPM after fully opening the throttle. As your
speed picks up the RPM tends to go up a bit also, so I'd often tap it
back down to redline after establishing my initial climb.
The Ivo mechanism has stops that limit both the fine and coarse pitch
settings so it can't reverse or feather. Even if you had it all the
way flat or all the way coarse, with full throttle you'd still have a
significant amount of thrust happening. The NSI CAP hub had an
option for full reversing intended to simplify float-plane
maneuvering on the water. It had several mechanical and electrical
interlocks to prevent inadvertent reversing in flight but I suppose
if you were having a really, really bad day...
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
On Wed, November 26, 2008 4:16 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
> during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
> change it to cruise when you get there....no?
These props aren't constant speed props that you probably used in your certified
experience. So, you don't control them the same way.
With a cockpit adjustable (not-constant speed) prop, at run-up, you set the prop
to
maximum horsepower rpm, WOT. As soon as you begin to roll, you're going to either
have
to increase the pitch or pull back the power to control the rpm. Best practice
is
normally to keep adding pitch as required until until you reach best angle or best
rate speed. When you reach traffic pattern altitude then you reduce power as you
would
in a fixed pitch propeller configuration. At this point you might need to adjust
the
pitch again for best economy.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> The UK Kitfoxes have a nearly identical setup as part of the build, although
Lowell's tab appears to be just a bit bigger which is a good idea. The UK setup
uses a simple cable with friction-wheel up front, less to go wrong.
I have to disagree there, a long cable run from to the panel to the tail is way
harder to install and maintain in good mechanical condition than a simple switch
and wires running back to an electric servo. The electric servo by the Ray
Allen company that I think Lowell is using is a very good, reliable piece of
equipment that has been around for years.
They also sell a stick grip with buttons on it so you don't have to reach to the
panel to trim. The same stick has yaw buttons and with another servo can be
used for rudder trim as well. This system is way better than any mechanical
trim with cables would be.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216485#216485
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912UL no start |
True Rich... I pull mine out of the water after every flight and never get
the barnacles :-) The pond i launch form has an altitude measured in single
digit feet.
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
912 almost installed
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rcsfca
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 5:14 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rotax 912UL no start
Even though several months have passed since you heard about the problem, it
was not actually solved until 10 days ago. We tried each of the numerous
suggestions that were offered but in the end, I had to have a technician
from California Power Systems, the western U.S. distributor for Rotax, come
out to my hangar (at Concord, CA (CCR) ) and go through the problem.
Up to that point, I put a lot of attention on the battery (new Odyssey plus
an aviation-designed trickle charger from VDC) and the fuel. Neither changed
the no-start although the cranking was top-notch!
When the tech came out, he took about an hour, with instruments to determine
that both of the Ducati ignition modules were not working, but for different
reasons. One of them was completely out of service and had to be replaced.
The other had corrosion on several of the leads buried in that wiring stack
that sits next to the modules. The corrosion was cleaned up, and guess what
happened? It started immediately (and continues to start immediately),
within seconds of cranking. We re-balanced the carbs and the work was done.
The Ducati unit was $800 and the labor (welcome to California) was $400.
In a way, I wish the problem had been something that you Kitfox detectives
cleverly knew about and could have been fixed without the tech (and without
the $1200 parts and labor) but the plane is 15 years old now and, well, you
know how it goes. At least we don't have to haul our planes out of the water
every year and scrape barnacles off the bottom...
Thanks again,
Rich Cunningham
Model IV-1200 912UL
SF East Bay (CCR)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216436#216436
Message 36
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Here is the story--actually two stories. I believe the second one. The
first one tells you how valid eye witnesses are with airplane crashes.
Jim Crowder
do not archive
It was like a scene out of a James Bond movie.
Pilot takes off, notices trouble with the engine, banks hard, clips wing,
and leaps from the plane seconds before the aircraft slams into the ground,
bursts into flames and sets a field on fire.
Pilot walks away - apparently unharmed.
That, according to friends Ulrich and Joan Hauser, is what happened to Jason
Patton as he was taking off from Boulder Municipal Airport Monday, while
giving his newly purchased Kitfox Classic 4 experimental plane a tryout on a
brilliant, blue-sky day.
Or there's the version of the story in which Patton, 37, crash-lands his
$20,000 home-built kit plane near 57th Street and Woodbourne Hollow Road
northeast of the airport, catches a wing on a post, spins the aircraft
around and steps out of the plane after it comes to a rest in a field. It
then bursts into flames.
Cmdr. Phil West, of the Boulder County Sheriff's Office, said that's the
story Patton told one of his investigators after the 1 p.m. accident.
Whichever version is closer to the truth, there's little doubt that it was a
hair-raising day for Patton, a resident of Albert Lea, Minn., who lives with
his wife and children in Guatemala and works there as a Christian
missionary.
Ulrich Hauser said Patton noticed that his engine didn't sound right as he
took off east from Runway 8 and that the aircraft wasn't gaining the proper
speed.
"The propeller went in reverse, and he realized he couldn't stop the plane
before it went beyond the boundaries of the airport," Hauser said.
Patton, who refused to be taken to a hospital, got into a minivan shortly
after the crash and declined to talk to a reporter.
Hauser said Patton was planning to fly his plane to Minnesota and then drive
it from there down to Guatemala.
Firefighters sprayed down about an acre of charred grass just beyond the
airport's northern boundary early Monday afternoon, as the ruins of the
Kitfox Classic 4 smoldered inside the burn zone. One wheel lay 20 feet away
from the aircraft while the other had rolled downhill into Jim Kozlowski's
gravel driveway.
"It's a little nerve-wracking to see something like that," said Kozlowski,
who has two young children who weren't home at the time of the collision.
Grant Von Letkemann, who has lived at the northeast edge of the Boulder
Municipal Airport in the Rustic Knolls neighborhood for 40 years, said he
was in his backyard talking with someone when he heard what sounded like a
struggling plane engine.
"I made a comment to the guy who was with me that the pilot better do
something or he's in trouble," Von Letkemann said. "He just lost altitude
before he pancaked into the field."
He said he called 911 and told the operator to contact nearby Boulder Rural
Fire Department out on the Diagonal Highway. After a few minutes, when he
didn't hear any sirens approaching, he called 911 again and found out that
they had dispatched Boulder Fire Department to the scene.
"It was surprising, because Boulder Rural is quick," Von Letkemann said.
The confusion over jurisdiction may have been due to the fact that the plane
crashed just north of the airport boundary on a patch of private land in
unincorporated Boulder County, right along the city line.
Von Letkemann said despite the fact that he's seen "several" plane crashes
at the east end of the airport over the years, he's not worried about one
crashing into his living room any time soon.
"I just figure it will hit one of the other homes first," he said with a
laugh.
The FAA is investigating the crash.
Jim Crowder
S5/3300 Jabiru (Engine swap in process)
North Front Range of Colorado
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Thanks, Mike and Paul-
The closest I ever got to having to deal with a prop was 3+ hours one
day in a 180 Cessna, during my catch-as-catch-can flight
training....good thing too, as what you both describe sounds like it
*could* ruin your day, and did for the Colorado guy, if that's what
really happened. Glad I don't have to do anything like adjusting a
prop on takeoff. Maybe the FAA/EAA were right in excluding this
operation for Sport Pilots, time will tell.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:33 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
>
> These props aren't constant speed props that you probably used in
> your certified
> experience. So, you don't control them the same way.
On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:29 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Lynn sez:
>
>> I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
>> during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
>> change it to cruise when you get there....no?
>
> I had a Rotax 912S with an Ivo medium in-flight adjustable prop on
> my model IV, Lynn. With no prop pitch indication you can't
> precisely set the pitch for best takeoff power beforehand. If I
> ran it all the way flat then added full power, the RPM would go too
> high, so I knew I had to pull the pitch in a little bit from that
> point. After a while you could get pretty close with cranking it
> all the way flat then pressing the switch the other way and
> counting, "One thousand one, one thousand two..."
>
> That said, it wasn't unusual for me to be rolling (even though the
> ground roll was very short) and tapping the switch up or down a
> little to get takeoff RPM after fully opening the throttle. As
> your speed picks up the RPM tends to go up a bit also, so I'd often
> tap it back down to redline after establishing my initial climb.
>
> The Ivo mechanism has stops that limit both the fine and coarse
> pitch settings so it can't reverse or feather. Even if you had it
> all the way flat or all the way coarse, with full throttle you'd
> still have a significant amount of thrust happening. The NSI CAP
> hub had an option for full reversing intended to simplify float-
> plane maneuvering on the water. It had several mechanical and
> electrical interlocks to prevent inadvertent reversing in flight
> but I suppose if you were having a really, really bad day...
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
You are right Lynn,
On my IFA IVO prop I would actually trim for take off when on final
approach. Then it was always set for the next take off and also prepared
should you have to make a go-around. On take off I would establish the
climb out and then trim for cruise.
With my 70" two bladed medium prop and a 582 to this basically meant trim
for 6500 on take off and approach and then trim for about 6100 WOT for
cruise.
When you become more familiar with it there are plenty of other smaller
changes that you can make during the flight envelope ie) Trim for improved
EGT / Trim for improved coolant temps / trim for higher rpm take offs with
floats etc.
Gary
Gary Algate
Kitfox Classic / Jab 2200
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
27/11/2008 10:53 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
change it to cruise when you get there....no?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 26, 2008, at 5:04 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> In-Flight adjustable props are really no big deal, but it is one
> more control function that is added to the normal mix of things
> that have to paid attention to during critical phases of flight,
> especially during takeoff. Take an inexperienced pilot, in an
> unfamiliar airplane, at an unfamiliar airport, possibly having
> never used a cockpit adj prop before, you have a recipe for a
> situation that can quickly get out of control. But, not having
> all the facts in this case, we're just speculating and arm chair
> quarter backing. The fortunate thing here is that he walked away
> from it and there was no property or people damage, nor much left
> of that airplane!
> Deke Morisse
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
On Wed, November 26, 2008 8:01 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mike and Paul-
>
> The closest I ever got to having to deal with a prop was 3+ hours one
> day in a 180 Cessna, during my catch-as-catch-can flight
> training....good thing too, as what you both describe sounds like it
> *could* ruin your day, and did for the Colorado guy, if that's what
> really happened. Glad I don't have to do anything like adjusting a
> prop on takeoff. Maybe the FAA/EAA were right in excluding this
> operation for Sport Pilots, time will tell.
Most of my flying time has been in aircraft with fold up feet and a constant speed
prop so I feel really short changed with a cockpit adjustable.
There is no danger of putting in reverse Beta in a constant speed prop. You just
set
it to the rpm you want. On take-off you set it at 2700 and the engine won't go
any
faster than that. And it'll only go slower if you've set part throttle. The only
danger you have is lugging the engine if you pull the prop back before you reduce
power or the converse, say you're cruising at 2250 rpm at say 23" Hg manifold pressure
then you need to advance the rpm before you add power. The rule to remember is
the
prop control sets rpm and the throttle sets power with a constant speed prop setup.
A constant speed prop is ideal but the governor mechanism is more complex than
simple
cockpit adjustable and hence more expensive.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 40
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| Subject: | Elevator Trim question |
If you build in elevator trim such as Lowell's that is installed in the left or
right
half of the elevator, does this induce yaw or roll?
I've planned on doing this since the beginning of the project. I just didn't know
about the clever servo available from Ray Allen. I have a big clumsy cable that
came
with the kit as an option that looks like a throttle cable and mounts facing forward
under the left seat. Running a couple of wires would be a lot lighter. I see Aircraft
Spruce sells the three models of the servo and the indicator and control but where
do
you get that nifty cover?
Merlin rigged the throttle so you can have it left, center or right or any combination
on my kit. Since I learned with a yoke and center throttle/mixture/propeller controls,
I'll just rig the center location only. It is real easy to add another throttle
handle
even after the covering and panel are complete.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> Wait a minute, Michel.....Sensenich now makes a ground-adjustable
> prop for the Jabiru AND the Rotax.
Yes Lynn, but I still prefer my Jabiru propeller, made in one piece from the finest
Australian wood, hand-carved by a master Aboriginal boomerang craftsman.
... what? They are made out of wooden banana crates, by Chinese children in a
sweatshop of Kuala Lumpur? ... Man! No wonder now why mine attracts so many insects!
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 --- flying as PAX
Do not archive
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