Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 AM - Kitfox mishap in Colorado (fox5flyer)
2. 05:36 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 06:01 AM - Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE (raya)
4. 06:06 AM - Re: Elevator Trim question (Catz631@aol.com)
5. 06:36 AM - Re: looking for E style pedals (nick4853)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: Elevator Trim question (patrick reilly)
7. 07:16 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Rick)
8. 07:30 AM - Re: Elevator Trim (patrick reilly)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: Performance mods for 582. (Beemer)
10. 09:13 AM - CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Cudnohufsky's)
11. 10:05 AM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michael Gibbs)
12. 10:10 AM - Re: Elevator Trim question (Michael Gibbs)
13. 10:31 AM - Re: Elevator Trim question (JetPilot)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Elevator Trim question (JetPilot)
15. 10:51 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Trim question (Lynn Matteson)
16. 11:12 AM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Clint Bazzill)
17. 12:47 PM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (eric)
18. 01:08 PM - Humidity when painting (Dan Billingsley)
19. 01:25 PM - Re: Elevator Trim question (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
20. 01:46 PM - Re: Humidity when painting (Lynn Matteson)
21. 01:52 PM - Re: Humidity when painting (Dan Billingsley)
22. 02:08 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
23. 02:10 PM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michael Gibbs)
24. 02:14 PM - Re: Elevator Trim question (Michael Gibbs)
25. 02:19 PM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Clint Bazzill)
26. 02:21 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Michael Gibbs)
27. 02:40 PM - Re: Humidity when painting (Lynn Matteson)
28. 02:50 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
29. 03:14 PM - Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox mishap in Colorado (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
30. 03:59 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Weiss Richard)
31. 04:37 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lynn Matteson)
32. 04:37 PM - Kitfox mishap in Colorado (fox5flyer)
33. 07:04 PM - Re: Humidity when painting (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
34. 07:16 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
35. 07:41 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
36. 08:24 PM - Rudder cable length (jlfernan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Good question, Lynn. You're correct, but unless the prop has a pitch
indicator--most NSI units don't-- one sets it by a simple process prior to
takeoff, but sometimes it needs a bit of a tweak during the takeoff process
to get the correct takeoff rpm. Not a big deal at all, but for someone who
hadn't used one previously, it could be. Again, it's just speculation. I
have no idea what actually happened. As for the prop going into reverse, I
doubt it. That prop has built in interlocks so that it cannot go into beta
above a certain rpm. I think it's about 1200 prop rpm to be exact, but I'd
have to check.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop during
> takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then change it to
> cruise when you get there....no?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Nov 26, 2008, at 5:04 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>>
>> In-Flight adjustable props are really no big deal, but it is one more
>> control function that is added to the normal mix of things that have to
>> paid attention to during critical phases of flight, especially during
>> takeoff. Take an inexperienced pilot, in an unfamiliar airplane, at an
>> unfamiliar airport, possibly having never used a cockpit adj prop
>> before, you have a recipe for a situation that can quickly get out of
>> control. But, not having all the facts in this case, we're just
>> speculating and arm chair quarter backing. The fortunate thing here is
>> that he walked away from it and there was no property or people damage,
>> nor much left of that airplane!
>> Deke Morisse
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim |
Well, Mike, It made a lot of sense to me to send the elevator in to have the
work done as I did it. The elevator on Lowells web site is mine. I had the
stab trim mode done and now I have a new aircraft! I would do it again in a
heartbeat! The turn around time was great. All I had to do was paint the elevator
and install the kit. Lowell has put a lot of thought and engineering into it
and it works great. Not everyone on this list built their Kitfox. I did not
build mine. I don't have the honed skills that Lowell does. I can weld, fabric
cover,etc but I would rather pay Lowell to have it done right! He fills a void
for products that are not available elsewhere. I have his shutters and throttle
link also installed in my aircraft. I also have items that I bought from Merle
Williams that are also first class. These people are absolutely entitled to
any profits they get (which isn't much) They did the development work and
produced the product!
Dick Maddux
Fox4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Re: IVO PROP FOR SALE |
keith
i will call you after thanks giving
roger
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216517#216517
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
Paul, Lowell made that "nifty cover" for the trim servo. As mentioned earlier
I have one of his first systems and have installed the trim button on the
stick. It is similar to the T-28's I used to fly and sure makes it nice on
approach. It was easy to string the wires. I used model airplane servo connectors
to
connect the wires which worked out well. Here is a picture of the elevator
after painting prior to installation.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Re: looking for E style pedals |
The best way I can describe it is the "C" style looks like a backwards C if taken
off. The bottom of the C is the pivot. The "E" style looks like a backward
E where as the center of the E is the pivot and the bottom of the "E" style rests
on the vertical tube. I believe the C style was an earlier style that was
discontinued. The problem I have with my C style is that my big feet tend to
touch the top of the Pedal hence applying brake at times that I don't want to.
It appears to me that the E style would allow me to rest my foot on a bigger
surface and allow me to do the opposite of applying the brakes. I thought
I would throw it out to the list to see if some one had an extra set. Not sure
if the Model 5 will crossover to the 4. I hope this clears it up.
Thanks
Nick W.
--------
kitfox !V-1200
Rotax 912ul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216522#216522
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| Subject: | Elevator Trim question |
Dick=2C Thanks for the picture. Got to have one!
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Thu=2C 27 Nov 2008 09:05:53 -0500Subject: Re: Ki
tfox-List: Elevator Trim questionTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Paul=2C Lowell made that "nifty cover" for the trim servo. As mentioned ear
lier I have one of his first systems and have installed the trim button on
the stick. It is similar to the T-28's I used to fly and sure makes it nice
on approach. It was easy to string the wires. I used model airplane servo
connectors to connect the wires which worked out well. Here is a picture of
the elevator after painting prior to installation.
Dick Maddux
Pensacola=2CFl
Finally=2C one site has it all: your friends=2C your email=2C your favorite
cid=emlcntaolcom00000006">Try The NEW AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
To extract maximum take off performance without the constant speed
feature I sometimes found it necessary or desirable to pitch the prop
flatter for maximum RPM and manifold pressure. Once on the roll, usually
just a few hundred feet off the ground, forward speed has increased to
the point the prop unloads and RPMs increase beyond what is wanted. One
must then either reduce power or pitch the prop more course. In a normal
take off scenario it really is not necessary to have to make a major
adjustment immediately after lift off. It was nice thought to be able to
go from a great climb prop to a great cruise prop at the touch of a
toggle.
On a subject not addressed, but one that was really nice, is the short
field landing or emergency short stop requirement. By putting the prop
in beta, reverse you could do some really cool approaches and short
stops. Not that one would do this on a regular basis when a good side
slip will do. Oh and should you ever need to slow down really fast in
the air, there is nothing more exciting than going beta for a few
seconds at full power. Only did that once with plenty of altitude. What
a rush being pulled forward in your harness. Only once. That was enough
for me.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A.
Franz, P.E.
Sent: 2008-11-26 17:34
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
--> <paul@eucleides.com>
On Wed, November 26, 2008 4:16 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
> during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
> change it to cruise when you get there....no?
These props aren't constant speed props that you probably used in your
certified experience. So, you don't control them the same way.
With a cockpit adjustable (not-constant speed) prop, at run-up, you set
the prop to maximum horsepower rpm, WOT. As soon as you begin to roll,
you're going to either have to increase the pitch or pull back the power
to control the rpm. Best practice is normally to keep adding pitch as
required until until you reach best angle or best rate speed. When you
reach traffic pattern altitude then you reduce power as you would in a
fixed pitch propeller configuration. At this point you might need to
adjust the pitch again for best economy.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 8
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Mike & Kitfoxers=2C Amen to what Dick has said. I prefer to do as much of t
he work as possible myself. Some times I copy a design and fabricate the pa
rts if it isn't difficult and I have the right tools. Like Dick=2C I have d
one business with both Murle and Lowell and would recommend both of them in
a heartbeat. Finding people like them is akin to discovering the motherlod
e. Both produce=2C stand behind=2C and charge a fair price for their produc
ts and services and have put in more hours developing and marketing Kitfox
mods than I would.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2CIL
From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Thu=2C 27 Nov 2008 08:35:48 -0500Subject: Re: Ki
tfox-List: Elevator TrimTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Well=2C Mike=2C It made a lot of sense to me to send the elevator in to hav
e the work done as I did it. The elevator on Lowells web site is mine. I ha
d the stab trim mode done and now I have a new aircraft! I would do it agai
n in a heartbeat! The turn around time was great. All I had to do was paint
the elevator and install the kit. Lowell has put a lot of thought and engi
neering into it and it works great. Not everyone on this list built their K
itfox. I did not build mine. I don't have the honed skills that Lowell does
. I can weld=2C fabric cover=2Cetc but I would rather pay Lowell to have it
done right! He fills a void for products that are not available elsewhere.
I have his shutters and throttle link also installed in my aircraft. I als
o have items that I bought from Merle Williams that are also first class. T
hese people are absolutely entitled to any profits they get (which isn't mu
ch) They did the development work and produced the product!
Dick Maddux
Fox4-1200
Pensacola=2CFl
Finally=2C one site has it all: your friends=2C your emai=aolcom40vanity&
ncid=emlcntaolcom00000006">Try The NEW AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Re: Performance mods for 582. |
>
> OK. Well. It looks like someone will have to weigh in on
> behalf of the poor old 582. I've been running one for the past 312
> hours, with little problem. I've been on numerous cross country
> trips, including Oregon and Texas from SoCal. I personally think that
> given a good installation, regular maintenance, and a good EGT
> monitor it offers good service. I'll lay out some pro's and con's,
> but for a really good analysis get the CPS catalogue. In there is an
> excellent life-cycle cost breakdown.
I'll try to provide some of my reasoning for going with the G10 over the 582 in
my case.
>
> Pro
>
> 1. It's cheap to buy. (About $7k these days.)
My G10 install initially cost about the same. By the time I bought 2 or 3 items
to find one that worked, I wasted some cash. Knowing what I know now, I could
realistically do this for a bit less than $5K all up.
>
> 2. It has a very good power/weight ratio. It has very good thrust,
> especially with the higher ratio gearboxes.
No argument here. The biggest advantage of the 582 is it's power-to-weight ratio.
The G10 is very close, but I'll admit the overall performance suffers from
the extra weight.
>
> 3. It's quiet. (At least mine is.)
My G10 is loud inside, but I made no attempt to quiet it down. Others have muffled
theirs down, and can't hear it over the prop. Mufflers add weight, however.
One advantage to a four-stroke is the greater flexibility for the exhaust, and
not having to have an expansion chamber.
>
> 4. It's simple to operate. (Particularly with the RK400 clutch.) It's
> much like flying with a snowmobile. Starting and stopping are so
> trivial that if I'm asked to hold short, I shut down.
I'll submit the G10 is even simpler to operate. I don't overheat holding short
on a 90F day (good rad install-much research). No choke and no mixture (EFI).
My only operational concern is the oil temps on full power climbs, and I have
a solution I have not implemented yet. Simply reducing MAP to 24" stabilizes the
temps quite well. My goal, however, is no operational limitations to throttle
position in any phase of flight. I'm close, with the oil temps the only issue
left to work on.
>
> 5. It's simple to maintain. You can even do the rebuilds yourself.
> Parts are readily available and not outrageously priced. (The engine
> is so light you can lift it off the engine mounts yourself.)
The G10 is simple, as well, all parts came from the local auto parts store (or
mail order). Parts cost no more than any you'd buy for your car. Equivalent parts
for the Suzi cost about 1/3 that of the Rotax. Probably more discussion required
here...
>
> 6. Mine seems to be at least as reliable as all the 912's at the
> field. The old days of ruined rotary shaft seals, melted pistons,
> stuck rings, broken cranks, and leaky seals seem to be in the past.
> One nice thing about having a motor that's been around for a while -
> all the bugs have been worked out.
I'll submit the G10 reliability falls somewhere between the 582 and the 912. I
don't expect a 1500hr TBO, but it should be far greater than 300 hrs. Some others
have over 500hrs, and a couple are approaching 1000. There is not enough of
the G10s in aircraft to build a good reliability argument, however.
>
> Con
>
> 1. It's TBO is so low that its life-cycle cost exceeds that of the
> 912. (300 hours.) (See the CPS catalogue for verification.)
If you add normal operating costs (mainly fuel), and the cost associated with fixes/rebuilds,
I believe the G10 is far lower in life-cycle costs than either
engine.
>
> 2. You have to feed it oil, and not just any oil. This means that for
> long cross countries you have to carry a lot of oil with you, pretty
> seriously degrading the otherwise excellent power/weight ratio.
For cross-country's, the G10 requires nothing additional to be carried (as does
the 912). You can burn 100LL, but not all the time due to the O2 sensor ($11
each). Additionally, at 2gph, either carry 1/2 the fuel, or go a LONG way on full
tanks.
>
> 3. It uses more fuel that a four stroke would; about the same as a 912s.
G10: 4.4 gph on takeoff, high cruise 2.2 gph, economy cruise @60mph 1.1 gph, measured
with a fuel flow sender (i.e. not guessing).
>
> 4. The torque band is not that wide, so you must watch your RPM. Low
> RPM = low power.
If you look at charts, the G10 power output exceeds the 582 power at anything below
5200 rpm. Torque is nearly double below 4500 rpm (quoting from memory here).
That's just a function of a two-stroke that needs pipes. Charts are not reality,
but the G10 flies more akin to an aircraft engine in this respect. Just
put the throttle where you want it.
>
> 5. You MUST watch your EGTs. It's still true that you can turn your
> 2-stroke into a lump of slag if you're not careful. However the new
> instrumentation, and the HACman manual mixture controls make this
> much less likely.
I have no EGT's (not needed), and the mixture is fully compensated via the EFI
system. Water and oil temps are the limiting factor in operation.
>
> 6. It doesn't like high temperatures. With a maximum water temp of
> 180F you have troubles when the air temp gets into the 100s.
On the G10, and like all water cooled conversion engines, the temp range is critical.
Below 180F, the ECU is in open loop mode (not reading the O2 sensor). You
can run it up to about 220F safely, but I don't do that. 212F is my limit.
In flight on an 85F day, my water temp in cruise runs about 195F, and oil at 208F.
The 180F limit is one of the biggest factors I don't like about the 582.
Another usable 20F would be very good. This has less to do with a particular engine,
as it does with a sound radiator installation. I went through a great deal
of experimenting and research to find what works. Mine does.
>
> 7. It's actually a pretty big engine, by the time you stuff in the
> air cleaner and exhaust system.
The G10 is taller and heavier. I'm sure that's no surprise. But it does fit in
the Kitfox round cowl, both height and length wise. The TBI manifold sticks out
the top a bit, but I decided not to change it. The engine weighs about 130lbs,
no fluids or radiator. My install ended up adding 70 lbs to the empty weight,
but I carry that much less fuel around. Flying weight remains the same.
> Now as to your question on mods. The sky is quite literally
> the limit, if you've got the cojones. These engines are radically
> modified in the snowmobile and watersports world and many of the mods
> could easily be adapted to the 582. I have only found one "aircraft"
> modification and that is the exhausts offered by
> http://www.paraflite.net/muffler.htm. These pipes prove to be quite
> simple: the more fuel you throw at the engine, and the narrower you
> make the power-band, (see Con #4, above,) the more horsepower you
> get. His 80hp comes at something like 10gph! The BSFC is almost
> identical to the stock engine.
> Two other non-performance related accessories are the HACman
> manual mixture control and RK400 clutch. The mixture control helps
> keep the EGTs in line, making jetting much less critical. The RK400
> clutch disengages the prop below 2600 rpm, making starting, stopping,
> and idling a breeze. (No more floaty landings, too.)
I have several mods added to the G10. I have a mild street cam grind, with a little
more lift and duration. I ported my intake manifold a little, basically just
cleaned it up. I also have a crank scraper installed to help control the oil
around the crank.
You could do a lot to the motor, pretty much anything you could do to any street
motor for more power, such as carbs, cam grinds, turbos, etc. But they all decrease
reliability, and are generally not recommeded for airplane applications.
>
> That's probably enough for now. There's still a few of us here
> happily running 582s.
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
As long as you're happy with your engine, go for it. I'm not selling the G10 here.
I just wanted to explain why I chose this over a replacement 582. I'm pleased
with it so far.
--------
Beemer
KF2 (and now an M3!)
Middle Georgia
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216532#216532
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
All,
With all the talk about cockpit adjustable propellers I would be interested
in hearing how those of you who are flying behind them in your Kitfox have
them set up, how you fly them and what your reasoning is behind your
decisions. Also what experiences / mishaps you have encountered. The reason
I ask is that I have purchased one from John McBean for my 5 and will one
day be learning to use it.
PS. After reading the info from the last posts about prop adjustments and
the braking effect, is it possible the fellow in Colorado had his prop set
for max climb at take off and reached max rev quickly after takeoff and then
attempted to adjust the prop and went the wrong way, possibly flattening it
out even more causing the aircraft to brake in air which might explain the
pancake landing observed, and at that point did not have enough time or
altitude to recover? Yes, TOTAL speculation.
Thanks,
Lloyd C
Model 5 912 IVO IFA
Michigan
Checked by AVG.
9:02 AM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Lloyd sez:
>...is it possible the fellow in Colorado had his prop set for max
>climb at take off and reached max rev quickly after takeoff and then
>attempted to adjust the prop and went the wrong way, possibly
>flattening it out even more causing the aircraft to brake in air
>which might explain the pancake landing observed, and at that point
>did not have enough time or altitude to recover?
I can speak only for the Ivo medium prop on my Model IV. As long as
the engine is developing takeoff power you cannot flatten the pitch
enough to produce engine braking (unless, perhaps, you were pointed
nearly straight down). Braking happens when you have the prop in a
flat pitch and pull the throttle back, and can be quite significant.
In the scenario you describe, I'd expect that flattening the prop
further would just cause the RPM to go up, possibly beyond red line,
which would not reduce thrust (unless the engine suddenly became very
unhappy with you).
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
Paul asks:
>If you build in elevator trim such as Lowell's that is installed in
>the left or right half of the elevator, does this induce yaw or roll?
Not in any way that's noticeable. This basic design is common on
many light aircraft, including many single engine Cessnas, and is
very effective. Piper went with a stabilator trim tab on the
Cherokee line that is centered on the surface, but I have never been
able to notice any difference in flying either one.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
paul(at)eucleides.com wrote:
>
> If you build in elevator trim such as Lowell's that is installed in the left
or right
> half of the elevator, does this induce yaw or roll?
>
>
There will be no roll or yaw induced with this trim system. Most airplanes have
a trim tab on one half of the elevator only, they fly great with no strange
habits due to this.
I have flown with the Ray Allen electric trim system for both elevator and Rudder
on a Skyboy, and it works great. You just push the button on the stick for
the way you want trim, it will make a new airplane out of your Kitfox ! Ray
Allen also sells trim motors with LED position indicators that you can put on
your panel, so the Gage always tells you where your trim is for takeoff, etc...
The old trim systems with cables are horrible, never precise, a pain in the neck
to adjust, and just plain clunky. The failure mode of a cable is even worse,
if the cable gets some slack with age, and a trim tab is allowed some play,
the tab is very likely to flutter, which will cause flutter of the elevator which
can cause loss of the entire elevator. Many trim cable systems on experimentals
are an accident waiting to happen. There have been many accidents like
this in many makes of aircraft. Trim tabs are great, but as with anything in
aviation, you must use great care to engineer and install it correctly.
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216546#216546
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
P.S.
I don't know what Aircraft Spruce charges for the trim components, but many times
they are very expensive, many times not... Last time I bought from them I
paid twice what I could have gotten the same item from another source.
Here is the Ray allen Website, they carry everything they make:
http://www.rayallencompany.com/index.html
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216547#216547
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
Just for comparison sake....I bought 2 axle nuts (castle type,
1-1/4"x16...MIL specs) for my new skis from Spruce for $10.95 each,
and the very same nut from Grove is $15.50 each. I think that Spruce
sets their price based on how many they sell...pick an odd-ball size
of almost anything, and you'll pay more. At least that's the way I'm
seeing the trend.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 27, 2008, at 1:37 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> P.S.
>
> I don't know what Aircraft Spruce charges for the trim components,
> but many times they are very expensive, many times not... Last
> time I bought from them I paid twice what I could have gotten the
> same item from another source.
>
> Here is the Ray allen Website, they carry everything they make:
>
> http://www.rayallencompany.com/index.html
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216547#216547
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
I will put my little information in here. I first flew behind a IVO in Mar
ch of 1994. Mark from Thunder Gull Fame was at Oceano airport (Pismo Beach
=2C Ca) amd had an IVO on his 2 place ultra light trainer. Got about 20 mi
nutes of dual and played with prop. During those years little was know and
got some bad information from a friend in Watsonville=2C later corrected.
I have been flying behind an IVO since my first flight in 1997=2C 1400 hou
rs. Have had several changes over the years for different reasons but I lo
ve the prop. It was neat when I joined the Desert Fox Squadron in 1998 as
most of them were using IVO props. At the present time I have a 72 inch Ze
ro Plus UL on my 912ULS. Have the newer prop pitch assembly=2C sold the ol
d one one Ebay and it was still working great. Thats the sales pitch.
I fly out of Half Moon Bay=2C Calif and the air here is thick. Air temp is
usually around 55 to 59 degress F. I adjust prop pitch on Take off to 4000
RPM's runup at 23 inches MP and that will yield about 5500 on Take Off. Th
at setting works very well up to about 3000 feet at which the air is thinne
r and enangine RPM.s start to increase. A couple taps on pitch control and
whalla engine speed drops. I fly with 5000 RPM's 24 inches MP below 5000
feet=2C above that use about 5200 to 5300 with throttle pulled back about a
nd inch. Gives me TAS about 100 Kts with a fuel burn of 4.3 GPH.
The weight of the prop is under 10 lbs and I love it. Have has some issues
in past but all problems were resolved=2C don't want to get into that now
=2C would be willing to talk if you call me. (650) 712-1802 anytime.
One note=2C on preflight check prop position by running pitch=2C you can he
ar the motor unload near zero pitch change. Nice thing about the prop=2C n
o matter what happens with motor or whatever=2C it will bring you home.
Clint Bazzill
N9666T 1400 Hours Model IV with a ton of mods. Non I would remove
> From: 7suds@Chartermi.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: CAP -
IFA Props was Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado> Date: Thu=2C 27 Nov
7suds@chartermi.net>> > All=2C> With all the talk about cockpit adjustable
propellers I would be interested> in hearing how those of you who are flyin
g behind them in your Kitfox have> them set up=2C how you fly them and what
your reasoning is behind your> decisions. Also what experiences / mishaps
you have encountered. The reason> I ask is that I have purchased one from J
ohn McBean for my 5 and will one> day be learning to use it. > > PS. After
reading the info from the last posts about prop adjustments and> the brakin
g effect=2C is it possible the fellow in Colorado had his prop set> for max
climb at take off and reached max rev quickly after takeoff and then> atte
mpted to adjust the prop and went the wrong way=2C possibly flattening it>
out even more causing the aircraft to brake in air which might explain the>
pancake landing observed=2C and at that point did not have enough time or>
altitude to recover? Yes=2C TOTAL speculation.> > Thanks=2C> Lloyd C> Mode
==========> > >
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
I bought a constant speed electronic gizmo for my IFA IVO. Haven't
installed it yet. Is anyone using one of those and how do you like it?
Eric N58EW Speedster mod IV
Message 18
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| Subject: | Humidity when painting |
Can someone tell me what the highest humidity percentage would be to still paint
the Polly products? We are at 68% right now and I have blush retarder on hand...Just
didn't want to spin my wheels.
Thanks,
Dan B
Mesa, AZ
KF-912s
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
On Thu, November 27, 2008 6:05 am, Catz631@aol.com wrote:
> Paul, Lowell made that "nifty cover" for the trim servo. As mentioned earlier
> I have one of his first systems and have installed the trim button on the
> stick. It is similar to the T-28's I used to fly and sure makes it nice on
> approach. It was easy to string the wires. I used model airplane servo connectors
to
> connect the wires which worked out well. Here is a picture of the elevator
> after painting prior to installation.
How thick is the servo? I think I can get one possibly almost completely under
the
fabric on my elevator. I'll have to cut the trailing tube in one section of my
elevator then weld one back in with the hinges for the trim tab.
I'd be interested in having Lowell make the actual trim tab. I'd rather buy the
tools
than pay the shipping of my elevator both ways.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Humidity when painting |
70%, according to my "Polly" manual.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
> <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
> Can someone tell me what the highest humidity percentage would be
> to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right now and I
> have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to spin my wheels.
> Thanks,
> Dan B
> Mesa, AZ
> KF-912s
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Humidity when painting |
Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an indication not to spray
in high humidity. Anyone else actually spray paint when this humid? The temp
is a nice 66 degrees.
Dan
--- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Humidity when painting
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 2:46 PM
> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> 70%, according to my "Polly" manual.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
> ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
>
>
> > <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
> >
> > Can someone tell me what the highest humidity
> percentage would be
> > to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right
> now and I
> > have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to
> spin my wheels.
> > Thanks,
> > Dan B
> > Mesa, AZ
> > KF-912s
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
I was just watching the "House" marathon on TBS, and they mentioned
the word "beta", but I didn't see or hear anything about
propellors....seriously though, what does "beta" mean in the world of
propellors? All I know about Beta is that is was a superior video
tape format that the stupid masses voted down in favor of the longer
running-time VHS.
I really am serious about the question, though....what does beta mean
in respect to props? (the dictionary exp. doesn't give me a clue)
(Maybe if I got the additional 20 hours of flight training, I'd know
this but I didn't and I don't.) : )
Lynn Matteson (educationally challenged Sport Pilot)
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 27, 2008, at 7:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
(snip)
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
> That prop has built in interlocks so that it cannot go into beta
> above a certain rpm. I think it's about 1200 prop rpm to be exact,
> but I'd have to check.
> Deke Morisse
<paul@eucleides.com>
(snip)
There is no danger of putting in reverse Beta in a constant speed prop.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Eric sez:
>I bought a constant speed electronic gizmo for my IFA IVO. Haven't
>installed it yet. Is anyone using one of those and how do you like
>it?
I got one for mine, too, but never had a chance to install it. I was
really looking forward to it.
I think some care may be necessary when flying it because the Ivo
pitch motor is relatively slow compared to what you may be used to in
more traditional engine oil-operated constant speed governors. It
may take it quite a few seconds to catch up to anything more than
minor throttle changes.
I still like the idea and I'm likely to add one to my new 'fox.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim question |
Paul asks:
>How thick is the servo? I think I can get one possibly almost
>completely under the fabric on my elevator.
I'm not familiar with the unit that Lowell is selling but I got one
from Murle Williams and it fit completely inside the tubing and
fabric. It just had a small protrusion where the rod came out of the
servo assembly.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 25
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
I have heard from Jim Chapman that it works to hard.
check with him and he will fill you in.
Clint> Date: Thu=2C 27 Nov 2008 15:10:17 -0700> To: kitfox-list@matronics.c
om> From: MichaelGibbs@cox.net> Subject: Re: CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox-Lis
Gibbs <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>> > Eric sez:> > >I bought a constant speed ele
ctronic gizmo for my IFA IVO. Haven't > >installed it yet. Is anyone using
one of those and how do you like > >it?> > I got one for mine=2C too=2C but
never had a chance to install it. I was > really looking forward to it.> >
I think some care may be necessary when flying it because the Ivo > pitch
motor is relatively slow compared to what you may be used to in > more trad
itional engine oil-operated constant speed governors. It > may take it quit
e a few seconds to catch up to anything more than > minor throttle changes.
> > I still like the idea and I'm likely to add one to my new 'fox.> > Mike
========================> _
=========> > >
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Lynn asks:
>...what does beta mean in respect to props?
Beta means the prop pitch can be reversed. Very handy for float
planes that need to maneuver to and from a dock without the pilot
having to get out and use a paddle.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Humidity when painting |
Dan-
I just looked for at least one of my two manuals, but couldn't find
either...one is at the hangar...I'm almost absolutely positive that
the figure is 70%. I seem to recall that it says something to the
effect that "if it's over 70% humidity, find something else to do".
I know that when I painted my plane, I measured humidity and avoided
anything over 70%, and when I absolutely needed to finish a coat or
whatever, I'd bring in the dehumidifier....my paint "booth" was about
8' x 8' x 24', so it didn't take long to bring it down. On the other
hand, I sometimes needed to wet the floor to bring it up to avoid
static electricity. I hung a length of copper braid from the metal
parts down to the floor to ground out any static build-up. You may
laugh, but I actually stuck a length of copper braid inside my sock,
and out onto the floor so I didn't get a poke when I walked around
and touched the metal parts. Such is painting in Michigan in the
Spring.
You could also use a blush retarder...Poly Fiber BR-8600....which
says on the can to "slow down the drying time." I seem to recall that
if the paint dries to fast, the humidity in the air will cause the
paint to "blush", which is the humidity showing up on the paint
surface. I can't recall all this from memory, and always look it up
just before I actually paint.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:52 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
> <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>
> Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an
> indication not to spray in high humidity. Anyone else actually
> spray paint when this humid? The temp is a nice 66 degrees.
> Dan
>
>
> --- On Thu, 11/27/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Humidity when painting
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Thursday, November 27, 2008, 2:46 PM
>> <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>>
>> 70%, according to my "Polly" manual.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
>> ignition
>> system;
>> also building a new pair of snow skis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> <dan@azshowersolutions.com>
>>>
>>> Can someone tell me what the highest humidity
>> percentage would be
>>> to still paint the Polly products? We are at 68% right
>> now and I
>>> have blush retarder on hand...Just didn't want to
>> spin my wheels.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dan B
>>> Mesa, AZ
>>> KF-912s
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Thanks, Mike....now as a person who needs to know how words came
about, I just have to know how do I tie the word "beta" into prop
pitch reversing? The dictionary says (for one example) "the second
item in a series of classification", so I guess the first is going
forward, and the second is "beta" or reversing, eh? Sorry to be a
pain in the butt, but "I gots to know!"
I just can't stand it when they throw a word at something without a
reasonable explanation for it.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 27, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
> <MichaelGibbs@cox.net>
>
> Lynn asks:
>
>> ...what does beta mean in respect to props?
>
> Beta means the prop pitch can be reversed. Very handy for float
> planes that need to maneuver to and from a dock without the pilot
> having to get out and use a paddle.
>
> Mike G.
> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
> Phoenix, AZ
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Hi Loyd,
As I said previously I had IVO IFA Props on my previous plane (582) so
here's what I found.
Initially I had the 3 blade ultralight IVO prop. I found that due to
harmonic vibrations between the C Box and the three bladed prop the
electric motor and gearbox would fail after about 50 Hrs. I persevered for
about 150 hrs and then with recommendations from Ron at IVO I switched to
a 2 bladed Medium. (IVO gave me a full credit on the Ultralight prop
against the purchase of the medium prop.)
Basically the system is very simple to operate and with the Fuel flow
meter I had you were able to dial up the very best performance and fuel
consumption for a given cruise speed.
I could also dial up max RPM for take off on floats and then readjust for
optimum cruise RPM. The difference between 6800 rpm and 6300 rpm on floats
is pretty amazing and most of my buddies had to compromise with a 6200 to
6300 max static to prevent over revving and high EGT's in cruise.
Only problem I found with IVO system is that it requires a fairly high
rate of maintenance on the electric motor and gear box (100Hrs) but the
again even if it stopped working (as it did a few times) as long as you
stayed within the recommended parameters you were always able to continue
on as a fixed pitch system.
With the Jabiru engines IFA props are not allowed - if they were, I would
have one again in a heartbeat!
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab2200
New Prop - cruise at 108mph!
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Subject
CAP - IFA Props was Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
All,
With all the talk about cockpit adjustable propellers I would be
interested
in hearing how those of you who are flying behind them in your Kitfox have
them set up, how you fly them and what your reasoning is behind your
decisions. Also what experiences / mishaps you have encountered. The
reason
I ask is that I have purchased one from John McBean for my 5 and will one
day be learning to use it.
PS. After reading the info from the last posts about prop adjustments and
the braking effect, is it possible the fellow in Colorado had his prop set
for max climb at take off and reached max rev quickly after takeoff and
then
attempted to adjust the prop and went the wrong way, possibly flattening
it
out even more causing the aircraft to brake in air which might explain the
pancake landing observed, and at that point did not have enough time or
altitude to recover? Yes, TOTAL speculation.
Thanks,
Lloyd C
Model 5 912 IVO IFA
Michigan
Checked by AVG.
9:02 AM
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Lynn,
Here's a simple definition of Beta as provided by Hatrzell. I figure
they may know a little about props.
(I through in the feathering definition at no extra charge.)
What is beta? What does feathering mean?
Beta Range/Reverse
Some constant speed propellers are equipped for beta/reverse
operation. Beta Range is any blade angle below flight idle (Hydraulic
low pitch stop). Reverse is any blade angle less than zero degrees.
This blade angle produces thrust in a direction opposite to that of
normal thrust. Such propellers are typically installed on aircraft
with turbine engines and are used for to reduce landing roll.
Feathering
Some constant speed propellers, primarily installed on twin engine
aircraft, are equipped to reposition the blades until they are nearly
aligned with the relative wind. This position, termed feathering, is
used to minimize drag, thus increasing single engine performance
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Nov 27, 2008, at 5:51 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mike....now as a person who needs to know how words came
> about, I just have to know how do I tie the word "beta" into prop
> pitch reversing? The dictionary says (for one example) "the second
> item in a series of classification", so I guess the first is going
> forward, and the second is "beta" or reversing, eh? Sorry to be a
> pain in the butt, but "I gots to know!"
> I just can't stand it when they throw a word at something without a
> reasonable explanation for it.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Nov 27, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Michael Gibbs wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Lynn asks:
>>
>>> ...what does beta mean in respect to props?
>>
>> Beta means the prop pitch can be reversed. Very handy for float
>> planes that need to maneuver to and from a dock without the pilot
>> having to get out and use a paddle.
>>
>> Mike G.
>> N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
>> Phoenix, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Thanks, Rick....the feathering I knew about, and the description of
beta I will accept, but the choice of that particular word for that
particular function still leaves me scratching my head, but I'll drop
the line of questioning at that.
And regarding Hartzell...yeah, I figure they know a LOT about props,
as a friend of mine and I stopped by there on the way home from
Dayton, Ohio, early one morning, and were taken on about hour's tour
of the place....we saw everything from the raw stock, to balancing,
to finished props ready for shipping...really nice folks there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Nov 27, 2008, at 6:58 PM, Weiss Richard wrote:
> Lynn,
>
> Here's a simple definition of Beta as provided by Hatrzell. I
> figure they may know a little about props.
> (I through in the feathering definition at no extra charge.)
>
> What is beta? What does feathering mean?
> Beta Range/Reverse
> Some constant speed propellers are equipped for beta/reverse
> operation. Beta Range is any blade angle below flight idle
> (Hydraulic low pitch stop). Reverse is any blade angle less than
> zero degrees. This blade angle produces thrust in a direction
> opposite to that of normal thrust. Such propellers are typically
> installed on aircraft with turbine engines and are used for to
> reduce landing roll.
>
> Feathering
> Some constant speed propellers, primarily installed on twin engine
> aircraft, are equipped to reposition the blades until they are
> nearly aligned with the relative wind. This position, termed
> feathering, is used to minimize drag, thus increasing single engine
> performance
>
>
> Rick Weiss
> N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
> SkyStar S/N 1
> Port Orange, FL
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Just curious, Rick. My NSI prop has mechanical interlocks to keep it from
going into beta with anything more than 1200 prop rpm. Did you remove your
interlocks? If not, how were you able to do it?
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <wingsdown@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> To extract maximum take off performance without the constant speed
> feature I sometimes found it necessary or desirable to pitch the prop
> flatter for maximum RPM and manifold pressure. Once on the roll, usually
> just a few hundred feet off the ground, forward speed has increased to
> the point the prop unloads and RPMs increase beyond what is wanted. One
> must then either reduce power or pitch the prop more course. In a normal
> take off scenario it really is not necessary to have to make a major
> adjustment immediately after lift off. It was nice thought to be able to
> go from a great climb prop to a great cruise prop at the touch of a
> toggle.
> On a subject not addressed, but one that was really nice, is the short
> field landing or emergency short stop requirement. By putting the prop
> in beta, reverse you could do some really cool approaches and short
> stops. Not that one would do this on a regular basis when a good side
> slip will do. Oh and should you ever need to slow down really fast in
> the air, there is nothing more exciting than going beta for a few
> seconds at full power. Only did that once with plenty of altitude. What
> a rush being pulled forward in your harness. Only once. That was enough
> for me.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A.
> Franz, P.E.
> Sent: 2008-11-26 17:34
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
>
> --> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Wed, November 26, 2008 4:16 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>> I'm a rookie...why would you have to adjust the pitch of the prop
>> during takeoff? Seems like you'd set it for takeoff and go, then
>> change it to cruise when you get there....no?
>
> These props aren't constant speed props that you probably used in your
> certified experience. So, you don't control them the same way.
>
> With a cockpit adjustable (not-constant speed) prop, at run-up, you set
> the prop to maximum horsepower rpm, WOT. As soon as you begin to roll,
> you're going to either have to increase the pitch or pull back the power
> to control the rpm. Best practice is normally to keep adding pitch as
> required until until you reach best angle or best rate speed. When you
> reach traffic pattern altitude then you reduce power as you would in a
> fixed pitch propeller configuration. At this point you might need to
> adjust the pitch again for best economy.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
> PAF Consulting Engineers
> Office 425.440.9505
> Cell 425.241.1618
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Humidity when painting |
On Thu, November 27, 2008 1:52 pm, Dan Billingsley wrote:
>
> Thanks Lynn, I couldn't find a percentage...I just found an indication not to
spray in
> high humidity. Anyone else actually spray paint when this humid? The temp is
a nice 66
> degrees.
The relative humidity will drop considerably in your paint boot with all the lights
as
the temperature will be warmer but there is the same amount of absolute humidity
but
the relative humidity will drop with increasing temperature.
Since you're in the allowable range now, warming the air will make it better.
There is some variation for the type of painting you're doing too, that is, airless,
HVLP, or air pot. Double check the manuals that came with your paint gun.
The reason you are concerned at all with humidity is that when the compressed air
expands and some of the solvent evaporates, both cool the spray. If the spray
temperature is below the dew point of the surrounding air, then you get orange
peel
effect on the painted surface. So if you're using a compressed air type application
be
sure you have a drier in the air supply too.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
On Thu, November 27, 2008 2:08 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> I really am serious about the question, though....what does beta mean
> in respect to props? (the dictionary exp. doesn't give me a clue)
> (Maybe if I got the additional 20 hours of flight training, I'd know
> this but I didn't and I don't.) : )
Propeller pitch can be specified in two different, but equivalent, ways. The first
is
the blade angle, and the second is the pitch. The two are related as follows:
beta = atan( pitch / (2*pi*0.75*d/2) )
where beta is the blade angle, pi is 3.14159, and d is the propeller diameter.
Note
that the pitch and diameter must be specified in the same units.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
On Thu, November 27, 2008 2:51 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mike....now as a person who needs to know how words came
> about, I just have to know how do I tie the word "beta" into prop
> pitch reversing? The dictionary says (for one example) "the second
> item in a series of classification", so I guess the first is going
> forward, and the second is "beta" or reversing, eh?
Well, that is not true. Beta is the angle of the propeller at 3/4 radius. A negative
Beta would result in reverse thrust.
Propeller pitch can be specified in two different, but equivalent, ways. The first
is
the blade angle, and the second is the pitch. The two are related as follows:
beta = atan( pitch / (2*pi*0.75*d/2) )
where beta is the blade angle, pi is 3.14159, and d is the propeller diameter.
Note
that the pitch and diameter must be specified in the same units.
Colloquial usage might be somewhat confusing the facts. Beta, in itself does not
imply
reverse thrust. A negative Beta (negative propeller angle measured at the 3/4 radius)
would imply reverse thrust.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 36
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| Subject: | Rudder cable length |
I'm building a Supersport with adjustable rudder pedals. I'm learning they don't
give you much extra material with this kit and am wondering how long I should
cut the rudder cables so I don't make them too short?
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216598#216598
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