Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 AM - (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Michel Verheughe)
2. 04:31 AM - 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL)
3. 04:50 AM - Re: Beta Control (Catz631@aol.com)
4. 05:50 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Tom Jones)
5. 05:55 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Lynn Matteson)
6. 06:18 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Vic Baker)
7. 07:18 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Weiss Richard)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Marco Menezes)
9. 07:27 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Marco Menezes)
10. 08:38 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
11. 08:50 AM - cabin heater (vetdrem)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL)
13. 10:31 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (corbob13)
14. 10:41 AM - Any Arctic Sparrow users out there? (corbob13)
15. 11:14 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL)
16. 11:50 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Guy Buchanan)
17. 12:13 PM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (JetPilot)
18. 12:26 PM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Michel Verheughe)
19. 01:06 PM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
20. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Randy Daughenbaugh)
21. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (john taylor)
22. 03:50 PM - Canada border crossing (fox5flyer)
23. 04:23 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Tom Jones)
24. 04:37 PM - Canada border crossing (fox5flyer)
25. 04:56 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (John W. Hart)
26. 07:21 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Lynn Matteson)
27. 09:13 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
Message 1
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| Subject: | (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
(Off-topic)
Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are a few
photos:
http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
Do not archive
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| Subject: | 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
Hey all,
Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training in
it. It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any information
on how this setup works, or what it does exactly. It would be nice to know
how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it. So far, i have
not found any information on the internet about it. If anyone has any info,
or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted.
The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe, and
CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs. I assume
that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or something.
Any info would be appreciated.
Andrew
Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217135#217135
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| Subject: | Re: Beta Control |
I think we are "Betamax"
Dick Maddux
P'cola,Fl
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Michel, do you have the shis on now? Do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217141#217141
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Nice pictures, Michel...I'll bet you stay well clear of that mountain
in "iffy" weather, eh? In the first picture, is that a landing strip
that I see parallel to the trees? If not, it sure looks like it needs/
wants to be one.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> (Off-topic)
> Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway.
> Here are a few photos:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold
outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right?
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp
Phase 1 flight testing
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michel Verheughe" <michel@online.no>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight
> (Off-topic)
> Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are
> a few photos:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Michel,
Beautiful, (n)ice pictures. Those are just the scenes those of us
from Florida like to look at -- on the computer. It looks cold, very
cold.
Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> (Off-topic)
> Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway.
> Here are a few photos:
>
> http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
>
> Do not archive
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> </a>
> </a>
> </a>
> </b></font></pre>
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
Hi Andrew.
-
Sounds like you're describing the HAC Man system by GreenSky Adventures. Ch
eck their website for all you want to know
-
Operationally, set the knob at full rich (right) for start-up and take off.
After that, lean to keep EGT's at optimal levels (1100-1150 degrees). It's
simple and it works!
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 12/1/08, 815TL <lawrenceaw@corning.com> wrote:
From: 815TL <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control?
<lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Hey all,
Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training
in
it. It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any
information on how this setup works, or what it does exactly. It would be
nice
to know how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it. So f
ar, i
have not found any information on the internet about it. If anyone has any
info, or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted.
The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe,
and
CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs. I a
ssume
that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or somethin
g.
Any info would be appreciated.
Andrew
Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217135#217135
=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic?
-
It's Winter in Michigan now too. 8 inches fell last night and I'm now off t
o move it out of the driveway.
-
do not archive
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Mon, 12/1/08, Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no> wrote:
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight
(Off-topic)
Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are a
few
photos:
http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000"
face="courier new,courier">
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution</a>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com</a>
</b></font></pre>=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
On Mon, December 1, 2008 4:31 am, 815TL wrote:
> Any info would be appreciated.
Make sure you completely understand the operator's manual for your engine!
<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d04085.pdf>
When you get that mastered, all of the rest of the manuals, everything from service
and overhaul to maintenance procedures can also be downloaded.
<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/a_searchdoc.aspx>
You might have the one I've seen advertised in EAA publications made by Green Sky
Adventures in Florida. Here's a link to a couple of articles about using their
system:
<http://www.greenskyadventures.com/bing/articleLeadIn.htm>
If that looks like the one you have, you should get their operator's manual too.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
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When I bought my kitfox, it came with a box labeled "582 cabin heater kit". It
contains everything that you would expect to install the heater in the kitfox,
except the "EASY-TO-FOLLOW DIRECTIONS".
My plane has a 912, but I think that it should work the same. It is pretty easy
to figure out most of it, but I'm sure that there are one or two "gotchas" in
there that are sure to bite me.
Does anyone have the directions that would have been supplied with this kit? If
so, I would sure appreciate a copy.
Thanks,
Louie
Altus, AR and Houghton Lake, MI
model III 912UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217173#217173
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
That sounds like it! Mine is the manual version, I had seen the automatic version
before, but did not know that they made a manual version of it.
Thanks guys! I will check with them and see if they can point me towards the manual.
I have been getting up to speed on the motor and stuff, this was one of the few
things I could not find any info on.
Paul, thanks for the advice. I have wonloaded, printed and bound all those manuals
for the Rotax 582, and have been through them all a couple of times. I want
to know what I am flying behind. :)
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217189#217189
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
Andrew,
Is there a cable routed into the top of each carburetor? If so it could be an
Arctic Sparrow setup. That's the setup that came on my aircraft. In general
it works okay, but I have some issues that I'll be posting shortly in another
thread. If you do have the Arctic Sparrow mixture control you vary the height
of the mixture needle with the two knobs sticking out of somewhere in the panel,
one knob per carb. Adjusting the carb in this way is similar to changing
the jet or needle on the fly. Can you post some photos so we can help you verify
which system you have?
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217190#217190
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| Subject: | Any Arctic Sparrow users out there? |
Is anyone really familiar with the Arctic Sparrow mixture control that can provide
some guidance? Before I tear apart the carbs on my 582 I want to know what
I'm up against.
My problem is that it seems the needles on my carburetors are not ideal. As I
run through the rpm range on the aircraft I'm constantly turning the knobs to
get my mixture control right. At cruise (~5000 RPM) I can have the mixture set
so my EGTs are right around 1100-1150 degrees, but if I adjust the throttle
at all, in either direction, the EGTs start falling. Additionally I'd like the
ability to run a bit leaner at a lower RPM, while taxiing for instance since
the mixture is way to rich and the engine runs very rough. Can the mixture
needle be changed when the Arctic Sparrow is used? would I be better off changing
the main jet and sanding the needle down a bit in the area where it's most
lean?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
--------
Cory
N903DB
Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217193#217193
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
I believe that there is a line connected to the top of the carb, but I thought
this was for the choke.
After looking at the article on greensky, it is definatley that manual system.
I am not sure if the knob says HACman on it or not, but it is identical, and
the brass tube connectors are identical.
This has only one knob that controls both, the Artic Sparrow sounds nice in that
you can adjust each one. Looks like 2 diffrent methods to acomplish the same
thing.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217197#217197
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote:
>The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I
>believe, and CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are
>routed to the carbs. I assume that by adjusting it, it changes the
>pressure in the float bowl or something.
You've got it Andrew. The HACman system varies the pressure
in the float bowls. It's good for about 80F of EGT. It is generally
coupled with 180 main jets, but these will vary depending on your
locale. (180s are three steps richer than the stock 165 mains.) If
you look under the hood you'll see the hoses go to the carbs and air
cleaner. The hoses are connected to the manual needle valve on your
panel. When you open the needle valve the intake manifold pressure is
progressively vented to the float bowl, thereby decreasing the
differential between the bowl and manifold and decreasing fuel flow.
Therefore you've got the actuation backwards, CCW to lean, (open the
needle,) and CW to close and richen.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Really beautiful pictures Michael. More people should post their flying pictures
and videos here. This list should be fun, not just all work and solving problems
with airplanes. Pictures and videos also serves as inspiration and motivation
for those in the building process !!!
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217204#217204
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| Subject: | RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
> From: Tom Jones [nahsikhs@elltel.net]
> Michel, do you have the shis on now?
Not yet Tom. It will be up to my son if he has time to fly this winter. Here, near
the coast, there is very little snow right now.
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> In the first picture, is that a landing strip that I see parallel to the trees?
No idea what it is, Lynn. That's why we took the photo. A riding school, perhaps.
> From: Vic Baker [vr_baker@nvbell.net]
> Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold
> outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right?
The two last photos were taken with the camera of my cell phone, Vic, and with
the door closed. The others were taken by my son with his ... big semi-professional
camera and the door open. I don't know what make it is but his tele-lense
is nearly as long as the cockpit!
> From: Weiss Richard [MDKitfox@aol.com]
> Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur.
Thank you Richard. Flying with my son is better than any chauffeur. Any man's dream
is to share his hobby with his son, isn't it? I am a lucky man.
> From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com]
> Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic?
No volcanic mountains in Norway, Marco. This one is called Gaustatoppen at 1,880
meter AMSL, the highest top in south Norway. Actually you can see the mountain
in the Holywood movie "The Heroes of Telemark" of 1965 that relates the sabotage
of the heavy water during World War II. The village of Rjukan, at the foot
of the mountain, is where it happened and it is the place of birth of my wife.
She remembers the filming with Kirk Douglas in the main role. As you probably
know, heavy water is used to enrich uranium needed to build an atomic bomb.
The nazi were thinking to produce one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vemork
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
Do not archive
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</b></font></pre></body></html>
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| Subject: | Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? |
On Mon, December 1, 2008 11:46 am, Guy Buchanan wrote:
>
> At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote:
> The HACman system varies the pressure in the float bowls. It's good for about
80F
> of EGT.
Guy, that doesn't seem like it is effective enough. I would think that you'd need
an
adjustment range of 150F or so. On a 4 stroke engine, peak EGT corresponds to a
fuel
air ratio of 0.068 which is very close to stoichiometric but richening it a little
say
100F down from peak gives best power and that corresponds to a fuel air ratio of
about 0.080.
Would this not apply in principal to a 2 stroke too, except that you might want
it
even richer under some conditions? I would presume that it is never approved to
look
for peak EGT on a two stroke since it just gets hotter when leaning down from
stoichiometric fuel-air mix.
Are you disparaging the use of this kind of setup? Is it a good one or not?
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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| Subject: | RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
Thanks Michel!
And it is NOT off topic!
I think it is pretty around here too. I will try to post some pictures.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel
Verheughe
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:25 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight
> From: Tom Jones [nahsikhs@elltel.net]
> Michel, do you have the shis on now?
Not yet Tom. It will be up to my son if he has time to fly this winter.
Here, near the coast, there is very little snow right now.
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> In the first picture, is that a landing strip that I see parallel to the
trees?
No idea what it is, Lynn. That's why we took the photo. A riding school,
perhaps.
> From: Vic Baker [vr_baker@nvbell.net]
> Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold
> outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right?
The two last photos were taken with the camera of my cell phone, Vic, and
with the door closed. The others were taken by my son with his ... big
semi-professional camera and the door open. I don't know what make it is but
his tele-lense is nearly as long as the cockpit!
> From: Weiss Richard [MDKitfox@aol.com]
> Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur.
Thank you Richard. Flying with my son is better than any chauffeur. Any
man's dream is to share his hobby with his son, isn't it? I am a lucky man.
> From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com]
> Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic?
No volcanic mountains in Norway, Marco. This one is called Gaustatoppen at
1,880 meter AMSL, the highest top in south Norway. Actually you can see the
mountain in the Holywood movie "The Heroes of Telemark" of 1965 that relates
the sabotage of the heavy water during World War II. The village of Rjukan,
at the foot of the mountain, is where it happened and it is the place of
birth of my wife. She remembers the filming with Kirk Douglas in the main
role. As you probably know, heavy water is used to enrich uranium needed to
build an atomic bomb. The nazi were thinking to produce one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vemork
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
Do not archive
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight |
right on, mike!! the pics are the best inspiration i find. hope to see more
.. tnx again michael. john bowman, south la- avid + bldg.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____
____________________________=0AFrom: JetPilot <orcabonita@hotmail.com>=0ATo
: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, December 1, 2008 2:11:36 PM=0AS
ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight
>=0A=0AReally beautiful pictures Michael.- More people should post their
flying pictures and videos here.- This list should be fun, not just all w
ork and solving problems with airplanes.- Pictures and videos also serves
as inspiration and motivation for those in the building process !!!=0A=0AM
ike=0A=0A--------=0A"NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did no
t go as fast as you could have !!!=0A=0AKolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.
==================0A=0A=0A
Message 22
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| Subject: | Canada border crossing |
I'm planning on driving from Michigan to Rochester NY through the Port
Huron, MI border crossing. This takes me through Canada along 402
through Niagara Falls, back into US and on to Rochester NY where I'll be
picking up an engine and prop to bring back. I don't see any problems
getting there, but getting back with my load has me somewhat concerned,
especially after crossing through Canada and back into US at Port Huron
where I'll be faced with the US border crossing agents. Since I'm
bringing the engine from Rochester and traveling through Canada and back
into US, is there anything I need to be aware of, like customs or
anything like that? What am I likely to encounter? I searched the Port
Huron border crossing site, but couldn't find anything that helped.
I can avoid this by going south from Rochester and down around Cleveland
then back up through Toledo and northbound, but it adds a lot of hours
to the trip and I'd rather go back the way I came. Much shorter.
Anybody out there who has experience with this sort of thing? What sort
of paper work would I need?
Thanks,
Deke
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Canada border crossing |
Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul. The repair
facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after it arrived
I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for inspection of the engine
when it crossed the border in a UPS truck.
I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the authority to
charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among the Countries in
North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal for Derringer to charge
me because they have a contract with the US to inspect cargo traveling into
the US in "Commercial Vehicles".
He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the engine in
the back of my private pickup there would have been no inspection charge for me
bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle.
I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found that
Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among NAFTA Countries.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245
Message 24
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| Subject: | Canada border crossing |
Good answer, Tom! Thank you. Actually, I'm bringing it from the US
(Rochester NY) through Canada (via Niagara Falls, southern Ontario to Port
Huron, MI) to the US so I have both Canada and US crossings to deal with.
I was told that the one I might have the most trouble with would be US, but
your last two statements makes me feel much better.
Anybody else have any experience with this sort of thing?
Yes, I know. I need to have my passport. Ink is barely dry, but I've got
it.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Canada border crossing
>
> Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul.
> The repair facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after
> it arrived I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for
> inspection of the engine when it crossed the border in a UPS truck.
>
> I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the
> authority to charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among
> the Countries in North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal
> for Derringer to charge me because they have a contract with the US to
> inspect cargo traveling into the US in "Commercial Vehicles".
>
> He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the
> engine in the back of my private pickup there would have been no
> inspection charge for me bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle.
>
> I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found
> that Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among
> NAFTA Countries.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Canada border crossing |
Deke,
For a definitive answer, I suggest calling the US Customs and the Canadian
customs folks at BOTH border crossings and ask them. I have had a bit of a
hassle with the Canadian side on the Washington State border in the past.
US Customs can be just as difficult at times.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:37 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing
Good answer, Tom! Thank you. Actually, I'm bringing it from the US
(Rochester NY) through Canada (via Niagara Falls, southern Ontario to Port
Huron, MI) to the US so I have both Canada and US crossings to deal with.
I was told that the one I might have the most trouble with would be US, but
your last two statements makes me feel much better.
Anybody else have any experience with this sort of thing?
Yes, I know. I need to have my passport. Ink is barely dry, but I've got
it.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Canada border crossing
>
> Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul.
> The repair facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after
> it arrived I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for
> inspection of the engine when it crossed the border in a UPS truck.
>
> I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the
> authority to charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among
> the Countries in North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal
> for Derringer to charge me because they have a contract with the US to
> inspect cargo traveling into the US in "Commercial Vehicles".
>
> He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the
> engine in the back of my private pickup there would have been no
> inspection charge for me bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle.
>
> I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found
> that Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among
> NAFTA Countries.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Canada border crossing |
Deke-
This sounds a lot like the "cross Lake Michigan versus go around
Chicago" (to Oshkosh) argument. One way is taking a chance, and the
other is longer but scenic(?)Things to consider: have you ever seen
the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of fame?(Cleveland) Pro Football Hall of Fame
(Canton, OH). How important is it that you get back with no time
wasted? How badly do you want to get back quickly....enough to take
the chance that some aggressive customs agent WON'T mess with you?
You could stop near Toledo and go through the Prince Propellor
facility, if you'd like.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:50 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
> I'm planning on driving from Michigan to Rochester NY through the
> Port Huron, MI border crossing. This takes me through Canada along
> 402 through Niagara Falls, back into US and on to Rochester NY
> where I'll be picking up an engine and prop to bring back. I don't
> see any problems getting there, but getting back with my load has
> me somewhat concerned, especially after crossing through Canada and
> back into US at Port Huron where I'll be faced with the US border
> crossing agents. Since I'm bringing the engine from Rochester and
> traveling through Canada and back into US, is there anything I need
> to be aware of, like customs or anything like that? What am I
> likely to encounter? I searched the Port Huron border crossing
> site, but couldn't find anything that helped.
>
> I can avoid this by going south from Rochester and down around
> Cleveland then back up through Toledo and northbound, but it adds a
> lot of hours to the trip and I'd rather go back the way I came.
> Much shorter. Anybody out there who has experience with this sort
> of thing? What sort of paper work would I need?
> Thanks,
> Deke
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Canada border crossing |
On Mon, December 1, 2008 7:21 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
> Things to consider: have you ever seen
> the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of fame?(Cleveland) Pro Football Hall of Fame
> (Canton, OH). How important is it that you get back with no time
> wasted? How badly do you want to get back quickly....enough to take
> the chance that some aggressive customs agent WON'T mess with you?
> You could stop near Toledo and go through the Prince Propellor
> facility, if you'd like.
You've got the right idea. Why face a possible hassle when you can have a real
fun
trip? The long way is 10 hours vs short way 8 hours. Go the long way, take two
days
and have some fun! To me the more scenic route is within Canada since I-80/I-90
is a
pretty boring. I've made that trip both routes perhaps a hundred times in a Pete
379.
I know those roads well.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
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