---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/01/08: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Michel Verheughe) 2. 04:31 AM - 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL) 3. 04:50 AM - Re: Beta Control (Catz631@aol.com) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Tom Jones) 5. 05:55 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Lynn Matteson) 6. 06:18 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Vic Baker) 7. 07:18 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Weiss Richard) 8. 07:21 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Marco Menezes) 9. 07:27 AM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Marco Menezes) 10. 08:38 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 11. 08:50 AM - cabin heater (vetdrem) 12. 10:23 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL) 13. 10:31 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (corbob13) 14. 10:41 AM - Any Arctic Sparrow users out there? (corbob13) 15. 11:14 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (815TL) 16. 11:50 AM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Guy Buchanan) 17. 12:13 PM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (JetPilot) 18. 12:26 PM - Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Michel Verheughe) 19. 01:06 PM - Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 20. 01:13 PM - Re: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Randy Daughenbaugh) 21. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (john taylor) 22. 03:50 PM - Canada border crossing (fox5flyer) 23. 04:23 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Tom Jones) 24. 04:37 PM - Canada border crossing (fox5flyer) 25. 04:56 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (John W. Hart) 26. 07:21 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Lynn Matteson) 27. 09:13 PM - Re: Canada border crossing (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:07 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Off-topic) Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are a few photos: http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/ Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX Do not archive
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:31:44 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "815TL" Hey all, Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training in it. It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any information on how this setup works, or what it does exactly. It would be nice to know how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it. So far, i have not found any information on the internet about it. If anyone has any info, or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted. The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe, and CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs. I assume that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or something. Any info would be appreciated. Andrew Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217135#217135 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:49 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Beta Control I think we are "Betamax" Dick Maddux P'cola,Fl **************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:04 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight From: "Tom Jones" Michel, do you have the shis on now? Do not archive -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217141#217141 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:51 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight Nice pictures, Michel...I'll bet you stay well clear of that mountain in "iffy" weather, eh? In the first picture, is that a landing strip that I see parallel to the trees? If not, it sure looks like it needs/ wants to be one. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 593hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > (Off-topic) > Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. > Here are a few photos: > > http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/ > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX > > Do not archive > > 

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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:52 AM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right? Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michel Verheughe" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:05 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight > (Off-topic) > Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are > a few photos: > > http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/ > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX > > Do not archive > > 

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________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:18:13 AM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight Michel, Beautiful, (n)ice pictures. Those are just the scenes those of us from Florida like to look at -- on the computer. It looks cold, very cold. Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Dec 1, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > (Off-topic) > Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. > Here are a few photos: > > http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/ > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX > > Do not archive > > 

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________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:06 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? Hi Andrew. - Sounds like you're describing the HAC Man system by GreenSky Adventures. Ch eck their website for all you want to know - Operationally, set the knob at full rich (right) for start-up and take off. After that, lean to keep EGT's at optimal levels (1100-1150 degrees). It's simple and it works! - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 --- On Mon, 12/1/08, 815TL wrote: From: 815TL Subject: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? Hey all, Still trying to learn things about my plane before I start serious training in it. It has a mixture control setup on it, but I can't seem to find any information on how this setup works, or what it does exactly. It would be nice to know how it works, and what it is actually doing when I adjust it. So f ar, i have not found any information on the internet about it. If anyone has any info, or can point me to a location with info, it would be appreciacted. The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I believe, and CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are routed to the carbs. I a ssume that by adjusting it, it changes the pressure in the float bowl or somethin g. Any info would be appreciated. Andrew Kitfox II, Rotax 582, 815TL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217135#217135 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:43 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic? - It's Winter in Michigan now too. 8 inches fell last night and I'm now off t o move it out of the driveway. - do not archive - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 --- On Mon, 12/1/08, Michel Verheughe wrote: From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight (Off-topic) Yesterday, with my son as PIC, we went flying in wintery Norway. Here are a few photos: http://home.online.no/~michel/Lifjell/ Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX Do not archive 


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=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Mon, December 1, 2008 4:31 am, 815TL wrote: > Any info would be appreciated. Make sure you completely understand the operator's manual for your engine! When you get that mastered, all of the rest of the manuals, everything from service and overhaul to maintenance procedures can also be downloaded. You might have the one I've seen advertised in EAA publications made by Green Sky Adventures in Florida. Here's a link to a couple of articles about using their system: If that looks like the one you have, you should get their operator's manual too. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: cabin heater From: "vetdrem" When I bought my kitfox, it came with a box labeled "582 cabin heater kit". It contains everything that you would expect to install the heater in the kitfox, except the "EASY-TO-FOLLOW DIRECTIONS". My plane has a 912, but I think that it should work the same. It is pretty easy to figure out most of it, but I'm sure that there are one or two "gotchas" in there that are sure to bite me. Does anyone have the directions that would have been supplied with this kit? If so, I would sure appreciate a copy. Thanks, Louie Altus, AR and Houghton Lake, MI model III 912UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217173#217173 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "815TL" That sounds like it! Mine is the manual version, I had seen the automatic version before, but did not know that they made a manual version of it. Thanks guys! I will check with them and see if they can point me towards the manual. I have been getting up to speed on the motor and stuff, this was one of the few things I could not find any info on. Paul, thanks for the advice. I have wonloaded, printed and bound all those manuals for the Rotax 582, and have been through them all a couple of times. I want to know what I am flying behind. :) Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217189#217189 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:53 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "corbob13" Andrew, Is there a cable routed into the top of each carburetor? If so it could be an Arctic Sparrow setup. That's the setup that came on my aircraft. In general it works okay, but I have some issues that I'll be posting shortly in another thread. If you do have the Arctic Sparrow mixture control you vary the height of the mixture needle with the two knobs sticking out of somewhere in the panel, one knob per carb. Adjusting the carb in this way is similar to changing the jet or needle on the fly. Can you post some photos so we can help you verify which system you have? -------- Cory N903DB Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217190#217190 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:41 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Any Arctic Sparrow users out there? From: "corbob13" Is anyone really familiar with the Arctic Sparrow mixture control that can provide some guidance? Before I tear apart the carbs on my 582 I want to know what I'm up against. My problem is that it seems the needles on my carburetors are not ideal. As I run through the rpm range on the aircraft I'm constantly turning the knobs to get my mixture control right. At cruise (~5000 RPM) I can have the mixture set so my EGTs are right around 1100-1150 degrees, but if I adjust the throttle at all, in either direction, the EGTs start falling. Additionally I'd like the ability to run a bit leaner at a lower RPM, while taxiing for instance since the mixture is way to rich and the engine runs very rough. Can the mixture needle be changed when the Arctic Sparrow is used? would I be better off changing the main jet and sanding the needle down a bit in the area where it's most lean? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -------- Cory N903DB Kitfox Model II, Rotax 582 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217193#217193 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:27 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "815TL" I believe that there is a line connected to the top of the carb, but I thought this was for the choke. After looking at the article on greensky, it is definatley that manual system. I am not sure if the knob says HACman on it or not, but it is identical, and the brass tube connectors are identical. This has only one knob that controls both, the Artic Sparrow sounds nice in that you can adjust each one. Looks like 2 diffrent methods to acomplish the same thing. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217197#217197 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:52 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote: >The mixture control is a single knob, turn it clockwise to lean I >believe, and CCW to richen. It has a couple of hoses that are >routed to the carbs. I assume that by adjusting it, it changes the >pressure in the float bowl or something. You've got it Andrew. The HACman system varies the pressure in the float bowls. It's good for about 80F of EGT. It is generally coupled with 180 main jets, but these will vary depending on your locale. (180s are three steps richer than the stock 165 mains.) If you look under the hood you'll see the hoses go to the carbs and air cleaner. The hoses are connected to the manual needle valve on your panel. When you open the needle valve the intake manifold pressure is progressively vented to the float bowl, thereby decreasing the differential between the bowl and manifold and decreasing fuel flow. Therefore you've got the actuation backwards, CCW to lean, (open the needle,) and CW to close and richen. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:16 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight From: "JetPilot" Really beautiful pictures Michael. More people should post their flying pictures and videos here. This list should be fun, not just all work and solving problems with airplanes. Pictures and videos also serves as inspiration and motivation for those in the building process !!! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217204#217204 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:53 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight > From: Tom Jones [nahsikhs@elltel.net] > Michel, do you have the shis on now? Not yet Tom. It will be up to my son if he has time to fly this winter. Here, near the coast, there is very little snow right now. > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > In the first picture, is that a landing strip that I see parallel to the trees? No idea what it is, Lynn. That's why we took the photo. A riding school, perhaps. > From: Vic Baker [vr_baker@nvbell.net] > Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold > outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right? The two last photos were taken with the camera of my cell phone, Vic, and with the door closed. The others were taken by my son with his ... big semi-professional camera and the door open. I don't know what make it is but his tele-lense is nearly as long as the cockpit! > From: Weiss Richard [MDKitfox@aol.com] > Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur. Thank you Richard. Flying with my son is better than any chauffeur. Any man's dream is to share his hobby with his son, isn't it? I am a lucky man. > From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com] > Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic? No volcanic mountains in Norway, Marco. This one is called Gaustatoppen at 1,880 meter AMSL, the highest top in south Norway. Actually you can see the mountain in the Holywood movie "The Heroes of Telemark" of 1965 that relates the sabotage of the heavy water during World War II. The village of Rjukan, at the foot of the mountain, is where it happened and it is the place of birth of my wife. She remembers the filming with Kirk Douglas in the main role. As you probably know, heavy water is used to enrich uranium needed to build an atomic bomb. The nazi were thinking to produce one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vemork Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX Do not archive
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582/Bing 54 mixture control? From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Mon, December 1, 2008 11:46 am, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > At 04:31 AM 12/1/2008, you wrote: > The HACman system varies the pressure in the float bowls. It's good for about 80F > of EGT. Guy, that doesn't seem like it is effective enough. I would think that you'd need an adjustment range of 150F or so. On a 4 stroke engine, peak EGT corresponds to a fuel air ratio of 0.068 which is very close to stoichiometric but richening it a little say 100F down from peak gives best power and that corresponds to a fuel air ratio of about 0.080. Would this not apply in principal to a 2 stroke too, except that you might want it even richer under some conditions? I would presume that it is never approved to look for peak EGT on a two stroke since it just gets hotter when leaning down from stoichiometric fuel-air mix. Are you disparaging the use of this kind of setup? Is it a good one or not? -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. PAF Consulting Engineers Office 425.440.9505 Cell 425.241.1618 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:14 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight Thanks Michel! And it is NOT off topic! I think it is pretty around here too. I will try to post some pictures. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 1:25 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight > From: Tom Jones [nahsikhs@elltel.net] > Michel, do you have the shis on now? Not yet Tom. It will be up to my son if he has time to fly this winter. Here, near the coast, there is very little snow right now. > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net] > In the first picture, is that a landing strip that I see parallel to the trees? No idea what it is, Lynn. That's why we took the photo. A riding school, perhaps. > From: Vic Baker [vr_baker@nvbell.net] > Nice pictures Michel, what camera are you using? Also, looks cold > outside, you are shooting with doors closed - right? The two last photos were taken with the camera of my cell phone, Vic, and with the door closed. The others were taken by my son with his ... big semi-professional camera and the door open. I don't know what make it is but his tele-lense is nearly as long as the cockpit! > From: Weiss Richard [MDKitfox@aol.com] > Glad to see you are airborne, even if it's with a chauffeur. Thank you Richard. Flying with my son is better than any chauffeur. Any man's dream is to share his hobby with his son, isn't it? I am a lucky man. > From: Marco Menezes [msm_9949@yahoo.com] > Beautiful Michel! Is the peak in 3rd picture volcanic? No volcanic mountains in Norway, Marco. This one is called Gaustatoppen at 1,880 meter AMSL, the highest top in south Norway. Actually you can see the mountain in the Holywood movie "The Heroes of Telemark" of 1965 that relates the sabotage of the heavy water during World War II. The village of Rjukan, at the foot of the mountain, is where it happened and it is the place of birth of my wife. She remembers the filming with Kirk Douglas in the main role. As you probably know, heavy water is used to enrich uranium needed to build an atomic bomb. The nazi were thinking to produce one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vemork Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX Do not archive 


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________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:57 PM PST US From: john taylor Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight right on, mike!! the pics are the best inspiration i find. hope to see more .. tnx again michael. john bowman, south la- avid + bldg.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____ ____________________________=0AFrom: JetPilot =0ATo : kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, December 1, 2008 2:11:36 PM=0AS ubject: Kitfox-List: Re: (Off-topic) A few photos from yesterday's flight >=0A=0AReally beautiful pictures Michael.- More people should post their flying pictures and videos here.- This list should be fun, not just all w ork and solving problems with airplanes.- Pictures and videos also serves as inspiration and motivation for those in the building process !!!=0A=0AM ike=0A=0A--------=0A"NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did no t go as fast as you could have !!!=0A=0AKolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A=0A=0A=0A =0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic. ==================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:27 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing I'm planning on driving from Michigan to Rochester NY through the Port Huron, MI border crossing. This takes me through Canada along 402 through Niagara Falls, back into US and on to Rochester NY where I'll be picking up an engine and prop to bring back. I don't see any problems getting there, but getting back with my load has me somewhat concerned, especially after crossing through Canada and back into US at Port Huron where I'll be faced with the US border crossing agents. Since I'm bringing the engine from Rochester and traveling through Canada and back into US, is there anything I need to be aware of, like customs or anything like that? What am I likely to encounter? I searched the Port Huron border crossing site, but couldn't find anything that helped. I can avoid this by going south from Rochester and down around Cleveland then back up through Toledo and northbound, but it adds a lot of hours to the trip and I'd rather go back the way I came. Much shorter. Anybody out there who has experience with this sort of thing? What sort of paper work would I need? Thanks, Deke ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:10 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Canada border crossing From: "Tom Jones" Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul. The repair facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after it arrived I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for inspection of the engine when it crossed the border in a UPS truck. I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the authority to charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among the Countries in North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal for Derringer to charge me because they have a contract with the US to inspect cargo traveling into the US in "Commercial Vehicles". He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the engine in the back of my private pickup there would have been no inspection charge for me bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle. I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found that Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among NAFTA Countries. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:07 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing Good answer, Tom! Thank you. Actually, I'm bringing it from the US (Rochester NY) through Canada (via Niagara Falls, southern Ontario to Port Huron, MI) to the US so I have both Canada and US crossings to deal with. I was told that the one I might have the most trouble with would be US, but your last two statements makes me feel much better. Anybody else have any experience with this sort of thing? Yes, I know. I need to have my passport. Ink is barely dry, but I've got it. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Canada border crossing > > Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul. > The repair facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after > it arrived I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for > inspection of the engine when it crossed the border in a UPS truck. > > I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the > authority to charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among > the Countries in North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal > for Derringer to charge me because they have a contract with the US to > inspect cargo traveling into the US in "Commercial Vehicles". > > He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the > engine in the back of my private pickup there would have been no > inspection charge for me bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle. > > I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found > that Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among > NAFTA Countries. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:52 PM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing Deke, For a definitive answer, I suggest calling the US Customs and the Canadian customs folks at BOTH border crossings and ask them. I have had a bit of a hassle with the Canadian side on the Washington State border in the past. US Customs can be just as difficult at times. John Hart KF IV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing Good answer, Tom! Thank you. Actually, I'm bringing it from the US (Rochester NY) through Canada (via Niagara Falls, southern Ontario to Port Huron, MI) to the US so I have both Canada and US crossings to deal with. I was told that the one I might have the most trouble with would be US, but your last two statements makes me feel much better. Anybody else have any experience with this sort of thing? Yes, I know. I need to have my passport. Ink is barely dry, but I've got it. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jones" Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 7:22 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Canada border crossing > > Deke, A few years ago I shipped my kitfox engine to Canada for overhaul. > The repair facility in Canada shipped it back to me. About a week after > it arrived I received a $80 bill from a company called Derringer for > inspection of the engine when it crossed the border in a UPS truck. > > I called US customs and pitched a fit about this. I questioned the > authority to charge me being that NAFTA is a free trade agreement among > the Countries in North America. The Customs guy said the bill was legal > for Derringer to charge me because they have a contract with the US to > inspect cargo traveling into the US in "Commercial Vehicles". > > He then said if I would have driven from Canada into the US with the > engine in the back of my private pickup there would have been no > inspection charge for me bringing it across in my "Private" vehicle. > > I also remember doing some research before I shipped the engine and found > that Aircraft parts are specifically exempt from a duty or tariff among > NAFTA Countries. > > -------- > Tom Jones > Classic IV > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp > Ellensburg, WA > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217245#217245 > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:43 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing Deke- This sounds a lot like the "cross Lake Michigan versus go around Chicago" (to Oshkosh) argument. One way is taking a chance, and the other is longer but scenic(?)Things to consider: have you ever seen the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of fame?(Cleveland) Pro Football Hall of Fame (Canton, OH). How important is it that you get back with no time wasted? How badly do you want to get back quickly....enough to take the chance that some aggressive customs agent WON'T mess with you? You could stop near Toledo and go through the Prince Propellor facility, if you'd like. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, 593hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 1, 2008, at 6:50 PM, fox5flyer wrote: > I'm planning on driving from Michigan to Rochester NY through the > Port Huron, MI border crossing. This takes me through Canada along > 402 through Niagara Falls, back into US and on to Rochester NY > where I'll be picking up an engine and prop to bring back. I don't > see any problems getting there, but getting back with my load has > me somewhat concerned, especially after crossing through Canada and > back into US at Port Huron where I'll be faced with the US border > crossing agents. Since I'm bringing the engine from Rochester and > traveling through Canada and back into US, is there anything I need > to be aware of, like customs or anything like that? What am I > likely to encounter? I searched the Port Huron border crossing > site, but couldn't find anything that helped. > > I can avoid this by going south from Rochester and down around > Cleveland then back up through Toledo and northbound, but it adds a > lot of hours to the trip and I'd rather go back the way I came. > Much shorter. Anybody out there who has experience with this sort > of thing? What sort of paper work would I need? > Thanks, > Deke > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Canada border crossing From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Mon, December 1, 2008 7:21 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote: > Things to consider: have you ever seen > the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of fame?(Cleveland) Pro Football Hall of Fame > (Canton, OH). How important is it that you get back with no time > wasted? How badly do you want to get back quickly....enough to take > the chance that some aggressive customs agent WON'T mess with you? > You could stop near Toledo and go through the Prince Propellor > facility, if you'd like. You've got the right idea. Why face a possible hassle when you can have a real fun trip? The long way is 10 hours vs short way 8 hours. Go the long way, take two days and have some fun! To me the more scenic route is within Canada since I-80/I-90 is a pretty boring. I've made that trip both routes perhaps a hundred times in a Pete 379. I know those roads well. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.