Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Guy Buchanan)
2. 04:36 AM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson)
3. 04:41 AM - GTA in flight adjustable propeller (Ken Potter)
4. 05:04 AM - Kifox parts (Stan Tew)
5. 05:35 AM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Bradley Webb)
6. 08:23 AM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson)
7. 08:51 AM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Dennis Golden)
8. 02:59 PM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (JetPilot)
9. 03:07 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (JetPilot)
10. 03:40 PM - Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? (jlfernan)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: 582 Overhaul Results (815TL)
12. 07:04 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Bradley Webb)
13. 08:51 PM - Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? (darinh)
14. 11:19 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lowell Fitt)
15. 11:33 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (WurlyBird)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
At 04:23 PM 12/5/2008, you wrote:
>Right now I am thinking that it should not be too hard besides
>having to work partially through the fuel cap opening and ensuring
>no debris remains in the tank. Am I completely wrong?
James,
Congratulations and welcome! I don't think you'll have to
get out your ship-in-a-bottle tools. I installed tank vents inboard
after-the-fact by first getting access through the butt rib. I then
used my Dremel to sand a 1 1/2" diameter area down to the glass. I
left it rough because I then epoxied a 1 1/4" diameter 1/4" thick
G-10 plate to the tank. I could then drill and tap this plate for a
1/8 NPT to barb fitting to which I attached my valve. You could do
the same top and bottom for the level ports. (Of course you have to
flush the tanks well after doing so.) You won't get your ports right
up against the top and bottom of the tank. To do that would require
you to lay-up your own reinforcements so they go around the corner; a
much harder job.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
A bigger "worse case" in my mind is whether you will be drilling into
an area that has not been sufficiently thickened with fiberglas so as
to provide a boss into which more than just a couple of threads can
be tapped. If those tanks weren't designed...at that particular
area...for the installation of the threaded nipples, you won't have
any holding power. Of course, you can always build up the area with
fiberglas and resin first.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 5, 2008, at 11:11 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
>
>> Has anyone ever installed or seen/heard of an installation of a
>> sight glass or sight tube type fuel gauge after the plane was
>> assembled? Right now I am thinking that it should not be too hard
>> besides having to work partially through the fuel cap opening and
>> ensuring no debris remains in the tank. Am I completely wrong? Is
>> there a good kit or specific sealant for something like this? Any
>> information will be a great help. Thanks
>>
>> James
>
>
> James, you are correct. The worst case is you will have to drill
> and tap the two holes to install the site gage. The main Issue
> will be getting all the debris out of the tank. A trick is to
> grease the drill bit so the debris stick to it. An adapter on a
> shop vac would probably work but you may get the "Big Bang" from
> fuel fumes.
>
> Quarter inch polyurathane fuel line and brass fittings (pipe thread
> to hose barb). Seal with a fuel proof non harding sealer.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217869#217869
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | GTA in flight adjustable propeller |
Hi Folks;
Does anyone have any experience with the GTA mechanical in flight adjustable propeller
on a Kitfox??
http://www.hoverhawk.com/gtaprop.html
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
G-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217893#217893
Message 4
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To all of you who responded when I posted about parting my kitfox: "THANKS". When
I posted in September I really did not expect the insurance to pay me. However,
they did after all these weeks. During that time I was contacted by a guy
who is buying the complete aircraft. Therefore I will not be selling any parts.
I apologize for any false hopes or inconvenience this may have caused any
of you.
Do not archive.
STAN 2
Message 5
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| Subject: | sight glass fuel indicator? |
James,
There's no need to thread anything into the fiberglass. Drill holes at the
very top and bottom, and epoxy in short aluminum tubes to which you will
attach the clear tubing. Threads suck in this application most of the time,
and they leak, get cross threaded easily, and will strip out about the third
time you pull the tubing off of them.
You can also get some float fuel senders and install them in the root
surface of the tank. Then, there are about a 100 fuel level gauges available
to hook them up to. My EFIS takes the fuel level and readings from the fuel
flow sender, and gives me a rough calculation of the airplanes range and
time to empty at that speed. It's only an estimate, but it's useful for
planning. You can get a similar instrument for about $250. Or a couple of
fuel level gauges for $50.
Whatever you do, be aware that gasoline is about the hardest stuff
imaginable to seal against, as 95% of the sealants available are not
compatible. ProSeal is very compatible, but is prohibitively expensive. JB
Weld is good, as is the "clay" type tank repair epoxy available at auto
parts stores. Most all RTV type sealants are not usable for gasoline.
My option would be to drill close tolerance holes, press in 1/4 inch tubes
with JB Weld, and thoroughly flush the tanks with 1000 gallons of water.
Bradley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:24 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?
>
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> I am happy to announce that I have finally purchased a Kitfox III that
> will be waiting for me when I get home from Afghanistan. My buddy that
> did the test flight and inspection for me indicated that there were no
> fuel gauges on the wing tanks, 6 gal variety. John McB has told me to
> check if there were holes that were covered because he thinks there might
> have been some on that style fuel tank but he had never seen an install
> done after assembly. For right now I am guessing worst case and assuming
> there is not. Has anyone ever installed or seen/heard of an installation
> of a sight glass or sight tube type fuel gauge after the plane was
> assembled? Right now I am thinking that it should not be too hard besides
> having to work partially through the fuel cap opening and ensuring no
> debris remains in the tank. Am I completely wrong? Is there a good kit
> or specific sealant for something like this? Any information will be a
> great help. Thanks
>
> James
>
> --------
> Prospective Kitfox buyer
> Here for information on airframes and engines
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217836#217836
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
Regarding thread stripping....if you drill and thread to 1/4" NPT,
and install 1/4 NPT-to-1/8 NPT reducing bushings, you'll only have to
install into the tank one time. I'd prefer this method to tubing
which is epoxied in place...too little mechanical grip with this
method, but that's just me.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 6, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:
>
> James,
> There's no need to thread anything into the fiberglass. Drill holes
> at the
> very top and bottom, and epoxy in short aluminum tubes to which you
> will
> attach the clear tubing. Threads suck in this application most of
> the time,
> and they leak, get cross threaded easily, and will strip out about
> the third
> time you pull the tubing off of them.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
WurlyBird wrote:
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> I am happy to announce that I have finally purchased a Kitfox III
> that will be waiting for me when I get home from Afghanistan. My
> buddy that did the test flight and inspection for me indicated that
> there were no fuel gauges on the wing tanks, 6 gal variety. John McB
> has told me to check if there were holes that were covered because he
> thinks there might have been some on that style fuel tank but he had
> never seen an install done after assembly. For right now I am
> guessing worst case and assuming there is not. Has anyone ever
> installed or seen/heard of an installation of a sight glass or sight
> tube type fuel gauge after the plane was assembled? Right now I am
> thinking that it should not be too hard besides having to work
> partially through the fuel cap opening and ensuring no debris remains
> in the tank. Am I completely wrong? Is there a good kit or specific
> sealant for something like this? Any information will be a great
> help. Thanks
>
> James
James,
When I bought my Speedster kit, I also got the mechanical fuel gauge
kit. It installs entirely from the outside of the tank. You might check
with John McB to see if they are still available. If not, you can get
the gauge from Aircraft Spruce and I have the instructions.
Dennis
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Guy is correct, being an experimental airplane, the builder can make the gross
weight anything we wants....
I am going to have a gross weight of 2000 pounds on my Kitfox, just so that no
one can ever ever accuse me of flying overweight should something happen :)
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217956#217956
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
I would not drill into the tank, it seems you are asking for trouble. I would
go with the fuel indicator in the reserve tank.. If you had to have a fuel indicator,
then I would get an electronic one so that you wont have problems with
leaks, etc...
Seems like a lot of trouble and problems just to have sight tubes on the tank.
You will never be able to drill into a plastic tank and keep all the debris out,
I know that from experience. Even after having the tank out, sloshing, rinsing,
sloshing with gasoline several times, I still get bits of plastic in the
gascolator in my other airplane. Think real hard before you start drilling
!!!
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217957#217957
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? |
How much space do you need between the VS fairing and the rudder fairing so the
they don't rub after covering?
--------
Jorge Fernandez
Supersport
Fuselage/Forward Controls
http://websites.expercraft.com/jlfernan/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217960#217960
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Overhaul Results |
Larry,
Thanks for letting us know. Mine is at 235 right now. I may go to at least 350
before doing mine.
What type of oil are you using?
Andrew
Kitfox II, 815TL, Rotax 582-C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217966#217966
Message 12
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| Subject: | sight glass fuel indicator? |
Lynn,
The idea of using the threaded reducer is a very good one. One could epoxy
that in place so it's would stay permanently. The only small issue I could
see is that the port will not be at the very bottom of the tank.
Bradley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:21 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?
>
>
> Regarding thread stripping....if you drill and thread to 1/4" NPT,
> and install 1/4 NPT-to-1/8 NPT reducing bushings, you'll only have to
> install into the tank one time. I'd prefer this method to tubing
> which is epoxied in place...too little mechanical grip with this
> method, but that's just me.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:
>
> >
> > James,
> > There's no need to thread anything into the fiberglass. Drill holes
> > at the
> > very top and bottom, and epoxy in short aluminum tubes to which you
> > will
> > attach the clear tubing. Threads suck in this application most of
> > the time,
> > and they leak, get cross threaded easily, and will strip out about
> > the third
> > time you pull the tubing off of them.
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Series 7 Vertical Stab glass trailing edge question? |
Jorge,
Wow, this is an old thread! I ended up adjusting mine after covering and paint.
I don't know the exact measurement off hand but 1/4" should be about right.
You could probably get away with less than this but you have 3 tapes at the
top of the vert. stab that overlap and a bunch at the bottom. You can always
adjust it after your done.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7 (Phase 1 - Flight Testing)
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217986#217986
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
For what it's worth, the reducer is a long time practice with Kitfox for the
finger strainers which are, or should be, removed periodically for
inspection. Thinking of the finger strainers, I don't think with these in
place and the usual down line fuel filters, I would hesitate drilling for
sight gauges. I think there are methods to remove most drill debris and
methods to reduce it.
I think, what I would do is make a boss out of fiberglass, drill and tap the
boss, then glue it in the desired place with Hysol. Then take a #30 or so
drill and drill down the center of the threaded boss. This way you don't
have to put a drilled plug in the tubing to dampen surges in the sight
gauge. The sight gauges are standard on the Model IV and up so they have
tons of long term use. I think the leakage issues of time past have been
resolved with different fittings and lots of home brew methods for nice
looking and quite accurate gauges - mine - I could estimate within a gallon
or so. Personally, I would much rather look at my fuel than a needle if
fuel was a critical issue at any time.
I talked to a guy recently that mistook a vertical needle as half full, when
it actually was on flat out empty. Then we can all recall stories of folks
that suffered engine outs with lots of fuel still showing on the gauge. Not
much chance of error with a puddle of gas in a plastic tube.
If you haven't worked much with fiberglass, cover the desired areas top and
bottom with clear packing tape and then lay on a couple of layers of
fiberglass. When it cures, pop the glass off and using that as a bases, lay
up enough additional layers for sufficient threads to hold the fitting.
Drill and tap and trim to a reasonable shape and size and after roughing
both mating surfaces glue it in place with Hysol or some other structural
adhesive. Drill the tiny hole and put the fittings and tubing together.
With this method, the only clearance issues would be fitting issues and it
could be placed pretty close to the top and bottom of the tank. Any debris
from the drilling would be minimal and easily trapped in the fiters.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Currently focusing on the Left Wing, Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing Gear
Fairing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bradley Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:03 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?
>
> Lynn,
>
> The idea of using the threaded reducer is a very good one. One could epoxy
> that in place so it's would stay permanently. The only small issue I could
> see is that the port will not be at the very bottom of the tank.
>
> Bradley
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
>> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 11:21 AM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?
>>
>>
>> Regarding thread stripping....if you drill and thread to 1/4" NPT,
>> and install 1/4 NPT-to-1/8 NPT reducing bushings, you'll only have to
>> install into the tank one time. I'd prefer this method to tubing
>> which is epoxied in place...too little mechanical grip with this
>> method, but that's just me.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
>> system;
>> also building a new pair of snow skis
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 6, 2008, at 8:26 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > James,
>> > There's no need to thread anything into the fiberglass. Drill holes
>> > at the
>> > very top and bottom, and epoxy in short aluminum tubes to which you
>> > will
>> > attach the clear tubing. Threads suck in this application most of
>> > the time,
>> > and they leak, get cross threaded easily, and will strip out about
>> > the third
>> > time you pull the tubing off of them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: sight glass fuel indicator? |
JetPilot wrote:
> I would go with the fuel indicator in the reserve tank.. If you had to have
a fuel indicator...
>
> Seems like a lot of trouble and problems just to have sight tubes on the tank.
> Mike
I can appreciate that this is a task that has to be handled carefully for many
reasons, my favorite of which to think about is the exploding vacuum. The guy
I bought the plane from was simply calculating 4 gph burn and assuming full tanks
at take off as his method. I know that the point of sport flying is having
fun and relaxing but my nature and training prohibit me from relaxing while
waiting for the fuel to get low in order for me to have any idea how much I actually
have. Not to mention with only a 1050 gross I may have to calculate how
much fuel I can take if I have a heavy load. I will feel much better being
able to look at the tubes and see how much fuel is in each tank. So to me it
is worth the trouble, and of course worth the trouble to do it right the first
time.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I now feel that it is definitely more simple then
some of the worse case scenarios I had in my head. I will look into it more
once I get home. By the way, is Proseal one of the best compounds for gluing
in a fuel covered environment?
--------
Prospective Kitfox buyer
Here for information on airframes and engines
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217990#217990
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