Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:59 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
2. 03:32 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
3. 03:36 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
4. 03:45 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
5. 06:19 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Noel Loveys)
7. 06:41 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Noel Loveys)
8. 07:16 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Patrick Best)
9. 07:17 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Roger Lee)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Sbennett3@aol.com)
11. 07:33 AM - Re: Cold weather starting OT (Noel Loveys)
12. 07:50 AM - Re: first flight on skis this year (Noel Loveys)
13. 07:54 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Noel Loveys)
14. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: first flight on skis this year (Noel Loveys)
15. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: first flight on skis this year (Noel Loveys)
16. 08:10 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Lowell Fitt)
17. 08:16 AM - Geese Off topic (Noel Loveys)
18. 08:39 AM - Re: Geese Off topic (Bob Brennan)
19. 08:43 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Pete Christensen)
20. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Liability) (Lowell Fitt)
21. 09:12 AM - Re: first flight on skis this year (Lynn Matteson)
22. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: first flight on skis this year (Lynn Matteson)
23. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: first flight on skis this year (Lynn Matteson)
24. 09:23 AM - Re: Geese Off topic (Lynn Matteson)
25. 09:28 AM - Re: Geese Off topic (Lynn Matteson)
26. 09:28 AM - FREE Rotax 912 seminar (Bob Brennan)
27. 09:31 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
28. 09:46 AM - Re: Geese Off topic (Bob Brennan)
29. 10:31 AM - cold weather starting (bob noffs)
30. 11:07 AM - Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
31. 01:15 PM - Re: cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
32. 01:17 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
33. 01:21 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Lynn Matteson)
34. 01:27 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (patrick reilly)
35. 01:35 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (n85ae)
36. 01:40 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (patrick reilly)
37. 01:49 PM - Dead stick practice (Lynn Matteson)
38. 02:08 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
39. 02:13 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (patrick reilly)
40. 02:32 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (patrick reilly)
41. 02:36 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Michel Verheughe)
42. 02:53 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Sbennett3@aol.com)
43. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
44. 03:27 PM - Re: Geese Off topic (Weiss Richard)
45. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
46. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Lynn Matteson)
47. 03:54 PM - Re: Geese Off topic (Lynn Matteson)
48. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (patrick reilly)
49. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Reply is off topic) (John W. Hart)
50. 04:35 PM - Re: cold weather starting (bob noffs)
51. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Lowell Fitt)
52. 06:22 PM - Re: cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
53. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Lynn Matteson)
54. 07:56 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Noel Loveys)
55. 08:04 PM - Re: first flight on skis this year (Noel Loveys)
56. 08:08 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters ( Not Kitfox related) (Lowell Fitt)
57. 08:16 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Noel Loveys)
58. 08:24 PM - Re: cold weather starting (Noel Loveys)
59. 09:16 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
60. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: incandescent lights as heaters (Guy Buchanan)
61. 09:51 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Liability) (Guy Buchanan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
I made my own Jim from some scrap aluminum - basically I made two x 4"
tubes and riveted them to an aluminum enclosure which I just taped to the
heater using aluminum duct tape.
I used that really light aluminum that you buy in a roll from hardware
stores
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
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?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
"Jim Crowder" <jcrowder@lpbroadband.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
11/12/2008 06:09 PM
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Subject
RE: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Lynn,
What did you use for a splitter?
Jim Crowder
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gary.algate@sandvik.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Lynn
I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter and
some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air into the two
air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket draped over the top of
the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders and then flow down around the
crankcase and out the bottom
I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends.
By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were up to
standard summer temps.
This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank every
time.
That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide Australia, my biggest winter
problem is finding enough ice for my drinks!
Regards
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
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this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
11/12/2008 10:08 AM
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Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil pan,
and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other
temp will see your engine oil at 106=B0, and your heads at about 80-90=B0
before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's
winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98=B0, and hangs
there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but
don't go to full power until it hits 120=B0...all temps are =B0F. Light
bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the
bottom of the cowl.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:
>> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very
>> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that
>> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,
>> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the
>> engine.
>
> YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile
> engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm
> sure.)
>
> Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. ;-)
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
>
> =========
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
It's for heating a small enclosure or cabinet. I got mine at the
Grainger store about 30 miles from here. Here is an direct link with
picture, to the exact heater that I bought.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3HK15
I put a layer of a woven fiberglass (Spruce calls it heat-proof tape,
P/N 09-31500) under the bottom side of the heater so it would send
more heat upwards, and not so much down, because I insert mine
between the oil pan and the oil cooler on my engine, and because the
oil cooler is so thin, I figured that the oil might get too hot there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:38 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?
>
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
> > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:31:22 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Another reason to run a 200 watt enclosure heater under your oil
> pan,
> > and a blanket over the cowl, so that temps in the teens or any other
> > temp will see your engine oil at 106, and your heads at about
> 80-90
> > before you're out of bed. I do this whenever the calendar says it's
> > winter. When I start my engine, the oil drops to about 98, and
> hangs
> > there for awhile, then starts to climb. I taxi at this temp, but
> > don't go to full power until it hits 120...all temps are F. Light
> > bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the
> > bottom of the cowl.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 10, 2008, at 2:07 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote:
> >
> > > At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:
> > >> He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very
> > >> tight fit compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that
> > >> even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps,
> > >> you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the
> > >> engine.
> > >
> > > YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile
> > > engine! It doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm
> > > sure.)
> > >
> > > Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. ;-)
> > >
> > > Happy Holidays,
> > >
> > > Guy Buchanan
> > > San Diego, CA
> > > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
> > >
> > > ==================================
> >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Sounds like flashing material for roof work.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 3:55 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> I made my own Jim from some scrap aluminum - basically I made two x
> 4" tubes and riveted them to an aluminum enclosure which I just
> taped to the heater using aluminum duct tape.
>
> I used that really light aluminum that you buy in a roll from
> hardware stores
>
> Gary
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Ok, Steve, bend over....I would think that starting fluid just gets
the engine started, without giving any warmth to the oil and the rest
of the engine. I'm sure that even the most greedy of the engine
dealers...no names, please...would suggest that you warm the engine
to allow for free oil flow and less scraping/friction/damage when it
does start. I'm thinking that if you NEED starting fluid, something
isn't right...too much friction, too much drag on the starter,
bringing the battery down, cold fuel, etc.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> My engine heater is a can of start fluid on those cold mornings...
> (30 to 35f) I've been spanked on this group before so have at it.
> Steve Bennett NC USA 4/1200 912ul
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> patreilly43@hotmail.com writes:
> Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?
>
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Pete,
I have the same problem here in Florida. A block of ice on the engine will
usually get the engine cold enough so you don't over heat it! Sure hate to see
Christmas go by. I know the ground hog will bring us another hot,muggy summer
shortly there after!
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. The NEW
Message 6
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
His advice sounds more than reasonable... The very worst thing you can do
to an engine is start it. That being true, when you do start it you want
to make the start as smooth and easy as possible. It's easy to remove metal
form the inside of your engine... neigh on impossible to put it back!
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
912 almost installed
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we really
need to heat everything - not just heads or oil or cylinders but EVERYTHING!
- when we fire up the engine in cold weather. He singled out the Rotax 900
series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or
Lycomings. He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F or
lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of the
engine.
I have never worried about this. If it is not windy, I fly without regard
to the temperatures. Am I destroying my 912S by starting it cold?
Randy - flew yesterday in teens and low 20's F - over Mount Rushmore
Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
It was said the weight was increased so the pilot would never be written up
for overweight. Nothing was said about modifications.
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
912 almost installed
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lowflyer
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:48 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
Has anyone ever thought that maybe the builder of this aircraft has
engineered the aircraft to accepted the increase in load? Maybe additional
cross members on the frame, heavy duty gear, larger struts, etc, etc...
I understand as a builder of a kit you have the freedom to change things.
The manufacturer of the kit has set some guidelines as to what specs they
have tested the kit to. If you want to go beyond these limits you can but
you need to understand the implications associated with the increases. If
you account for the increase in weight appropriately with additional
modifications then you should be okay.
No one really knows why the increase was there and if it was accounted for
by additional engineering and modifications.
Just a thought.
Chris Budd
N53RJ
Model IV Speedster
76hp 2180 VW, 230hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218673#218673
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-pilot pioneers!
For those of you who don't know what that is....
When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in northern Canada,
the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to drain the oil from the engine into
a large metal bucket and bring it indoors over night. The next morning, in
temperatures as low as -60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud
the engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the buckets
for a couple of hours. Then it would be poured back into the engine for the
flight.
I read it in this FASCINATING book. I would completely recommend it. It's about
1930's era Junkers with skis. Crashes and flying without reliable maps. Good
pictures too.
The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies around still.
http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Just a thought here guys before you jump.
The factory usually has the gross weight limits that they have tested on prototypes.
If you add an artificially heavy weight that would be discoverable by an
investigation especially if you injured someone in your plane you will be hanging
in the wind in court and by the FAA. If you sold the plane that way and someone
loaded more weight than the factory testing and you had it registered 500
or more lbs overweight you may be opening yourself up for a gross negligence
law suit if someone gets hurt. You knowing and artificially over grossed the
limits and never tested the new limits. A lawyer would eat you alive and if you
have insurance they may baulk at paying for something you knew was artificial.
Better to stay at least close to a factory tested weight unless you can show
in the building plans where you added more structure to support additional
weight. I have sat in many courtrooms and I can hear the lawyer now. Just protect
yourself. Overly inflating the GVW could have consequences.
Doesn't even have to be the person you hurt a disgruntled family member could come
and get you.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218888#218888
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
I never try to start my 912 when temps are under 30 F. I'm sure I know the
problem, When I take the air cleaner off and cup the opening of the carb it
fires rt up. I have a sticky choke cable. I guess a couple quick squirts of
the
start fluid is easy and I don't have to remove the air cleaner. My hangar i
s
not heated, It also doesn't have electricity so cold starting is my only
option. I will get the choke cable replaced soon.
Steve Bennett 4/1200 912ul North Carolina.
In a message dated 12/11/2008 9:40:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
noelloveys@yahoo.ca writes:
His advice sounds more than reasonable... The very worst thing you can do
to an engine is start it. That being true, when you do start it you want
to
make the start as smooth and easy as possible. It=99s easy to remove
metal
form the inside of your engine... neigh on impossible to put it back!
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
912 almost installed
Aerocet 1100 floats
_noelloveys@yahoo.ca_ (mip://04c62d28/noelloveys@yahoo.ca)
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Daughenb
augh
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we really
need to heat everything =93 not just heads or oil or cylinders but EV
ERYTHING! =93
when we fire up the engine in cold weather. He singled out the Rotax 900
series engines because of their very tight fit compared to Continentals or
Lycomings. He said that even if you turn the engine over by hand at 10 F o
r
lower temps, you will be scraping some metal off and starting the end of th
e
engine.
I have never worried about this. If it is not windy, I fly without regard
to the temperatures. Am I destroying my 912S by starting it cold?
Randy - flew yesterday in teens and low 20=99s F =93 over Moun
t Rushmore
Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting OT |
Guy:
Anyone who lives in sno-mo country will tell you the same thing... Starting
a two stroke is the easy part... Keeping them going is the hard part. They
say that because some of the older machines really need the crank seals
replaced.
With the maintenance generally done on the aircraft 582 that should not be a
problem. So we end up with an engine that is easy to start and run.
Anyone who owns a Chevy in the far north will tell you it's best to plug it
in. I've lived in areas where even the shopping centres have plugins for
shoppers. I've also driven cars in temps so low the brakes literally froze
to the extent that I had to use both feet on the brake pedal and then wait
five minutes for the brakes to release again (an old Mustang). Automatic
transmissions used to have the bands stretch and manual shift was great as
long as you didn't have to change gears in the first half hour. Gear oiil
in the differentials also changed to the consistency of toothpaste so four
wheel drive was really draggy for the first hour or so of operation. The
surprising part is the amount of traction you have is snow at those
temperatures. We used to get warnings when the temperature climbed to
within ten degrees F of freezing. I'm sure a lot of those things have been
fixed since I lived in the north.
Do not archive
Sigtaturea
Noel Loveys
Campbellton, NL, Canada
CDN AME intern, PP-Rec
C-FINB, Kitfox III-A
912 almost installed
Aerocet 1100 floats
noelloveys@yahoo.ca
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
At 08:11 AM 12/10/2008, you wrote:
He singled out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very tight fit
compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that even if you turn the
engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps, you will be scraping some metal
off and starting the end of the engine.
YES! Yet another reason to run the mighty 582: It's a snowmobile engine! It
doesn't care HOW cold it is. (Well, up to a point, I'm sure.)
Sorry, I always get a little delirious around the Holidays. ;-)
Happy Holidays,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 12
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| Subject: | first flight on skis this year |
I'm with you on the redundancy! This is a case where more is better.
The plate I was talking about is more of an install plate than a sliding
plate. The first skis I ever installed were manual hydraulic sliding
plates. The skis were mounted on springs that allowed the ski to be
displaced an inch or so as the plate was actuated in flight. It was
reasonable complex and added weight but gave a lot more flotation to the
skis for use in powder snow. The guy who flew the plane said he only ever
closed the plate when he expected deep powder.
As with most things there is the element of compromise. Your light plane
doesn't need the flotation that an overloaded Super Cub in ten feet of
powder snow would need.
Don't forget to post a few pictures of the new skis once they are
christened.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: first flight on skis this year
Hi Noel-
The proposed design for the skis I'm building has a 6" wide section
of ski running parallel to the wheel for the full length of the
ski...about 60"...but not right behind the ski. So yes, there is ski
to the rear of the wheel, just not right BEHIND the wheel. It is just
like the Federal.Wipair hydraulic-repositional wheel-penetration ski
that I saw at Oshkosh. And of course I have not only one, but two
1/8" safety cables(redundancy)......that prevent the ski from tipping
up beyond 5 at the front of the ski, per the ski rigging
instructions at the rear of 43.13-2A (Advisory Circular) which I'm
sure you are all familiar with. These safety cables also prevent the
ski from tipping up too far during flight. I have thought of the
plate that slips under the wheel, but this is not a good safety
measure if you consider needing to land at a dry paved strip under
emergency conditions. And around here with the lakes not frozen over
yet, that type of emergency landing (the frozen river or pond) is out
of the question at this point. I feel that I need the wheel to be
operational at all times for the conditions that I fly in. That type
of operation...the sliding plate...is only safe if you are flying in
totally frozen conditions.
I will also utilize two restraint cables and two bungies at the
front...redundancy again (and to please my mentor/flight
instructor)...including crust-cutters so that the bungies don't get
within 8-12" of the nose of the ski, as pointed out in 43.13. I
already have these features installed on my present skis.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 10, 2008, at 12:42 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn I think you will have to have some floatation behind the wheel
> and a
> lanyard to stop the ski tips form coming up too far on landing.
>
> Have you considered letting a bit of air out of your tires and
> putting a
> sheet of aluminium under the wheel and then pumping the tire up
> again to
> hold the plate in place... That will increase your floatation in
> snow. You
> only have to land on a pond or river to remove the plates before
> landing on
> a paved runway again.
>
> If you have ever seen a set of hydraulic convertible skis that is
> the same
> thing without the expense... or convenience.
>
> Noel
>
>
> Noel Loveys
> AME Intern, RPP
> Kitfox III-A,
> Aerocet 1100 floats
> Newfoundland, Canada
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:04 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: first flight on skis this year
>
>
> Hey, Jim, what size are your skis? The ones I'm building are going to
> be about 600 sq. inches for each ski, unless somebody talks me out of
> that large a size. My present skis are about 470 sq. inches. I'm
> building these so that the wheel doesn't penetrate so far and cause
> so much drag. I'm also making them so that no lifting of the plane is
> necessary to install, and no ski area right behind the wheel so no
> "cheese slicer" action will take place. I'm hoping this design will
> allow for less drag, and more staying on top of the snow, instead of
> submarining below it. Mine will be 4130 tubing with plywood bottoms
> and nylon-ish wear bars. Eventually I'm going to make some fiberglass
> tops to enclose the tubing and provide a smooth upper surface so the
> snow won't accumulate there. That will be a vacuum bagging operation,
> which I'm also going to build and learn on.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2008, at 5:55 PM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
>
>> Hi all, well I put new skis on the plane yesterday, finished the
>> bungees for them today. We have about 6" of snow on the ground
>> with more on the way so I taxied a bit, and then poured the coals
>> to it and commited aviation. I love flying in the winter! Landed
>> at a local lake, couldn't tell when I was on the ground (lake) it
>> was so smooooooth. Of course no one there to see it! Had to get
>> back to help the wife start supper as she wasn't feeling very good
>> so had just a 40 minute flight, but it was nice. Temps were about
>> +8 F but the heater helped and I was fine. Take care all, Jim
>> Chuk Avid MK IV Jabiru northern Mn
>> Send e-mail anywhere. No map, no compass. Get your HotmailR account
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
<snip>
Light bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the
bottom of the cowl.
Lynn Matteson
You ain't just whistling Dixie to that!
Noel
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
Gary:
The guy I bought my plane from only flew it on skis... No one has flown the
bird on wheels yet J . He built a set of back up points that slid under the
skis and were held in place with bungee chords. He used to tow the plane to
a bog behind his snowmobile for takeoff. Only thing he mentioned to me was
to be extremely careful to remove the reverse tips before taking off.
If you want I'll dig them out and take a couple of pictures.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gary.algate@sandvik.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: first flight on skis this year
Good point Pat - on my first set of skis the trailing edge of the ski was
parallel with the main ski body. Whenever I tried to pull my plane backwards
that son of a b- - - - would just tip down and dig in. My next set had a
graceful curve at the rear and I could spin the plane or pull it back with
no problems
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any
review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons
or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or
e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept
liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which
may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
"This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to <http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/australia.html>
UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".
patrick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
11/12/2008 09:41 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox matronics <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
RE: Kitfox-List: Re: first flight on skis this year
Lynn, What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to the front
of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: first flight on skis this year
> Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:50:01 -0500
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Other than the expense of the hydraulic system, the "repositionable"
> aspect of those skis is supposedly against the Sport Pilot
> regulations. I'm sure that if I felt that was an option, I'd say
> screw the rules and go that way, but I think the wheel only
> penetrating by about 1/2" (new design), I'll be fine. It should be
> far better than the 1-1/2" to 2" penetration that I employ now.What
> you point out, Gary, is exactly the method that those Federal/
> Wipair's that I saw at Oshkosh use.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:35 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Lynn'
> > if you really want to get fancy take a look at the wheel skis that
> > the Canadian Challenger dealers are offering for the Challengers.
> > They have a small electric/hydraulic cylinder that moves the ski
> > back and forward. This allows the wheel to actually rid up on top
> > of the ski when landing on snow and then when the skis moved back
> > it drops down to penetrate the ski.
> >
> > Drop down is really the wrong term as it just basically compresses
> > the tire as it moves back and forward.
> >
> > Neat set up, and the little electric pump is actually integral in
> > each cylinder
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > "This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 11/12/2008 05:14 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Kitfox-List: Re: first flight on skis this year
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That's my thinking too, Leonard. And if we get enough ski hanging out
> > there it might just add some lift, if it was shaped aerodynamically
> > enough. Of course, if we get TOO much area, it might convert to
> > friction on the snow, and that would not be good. It sounds like from
> > what I've found so far that there's a happy medium. I'm presently
> > looking for an article by a Canadian gent, and or the National
> > Research Council of Canada, who wrote a paper or book or something
> > about 'the effect of snow on aircraft skis'. I googled the subject,
> > and Amazon.com is looking for that info after I queried them.
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:41 PM, akflyer wrote:
> >
> > <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Mine are 13.5 X 60... 810 squares. In deep powder you want all you
> > > can get!
> > >
> > > I got mine installed a few days ago, but 40 mph winds and heavy
> > > freezing fog kept me grounded for the last few days. Now it is off
> > > to work so it will be a couple weeks before I get to try them out.
> > >
> > > --------
> > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > > Leonard Perry
> > > Soldotna AK
> > > Avid "C" / Mk IV
> > > 582 IVO IFA
> > > Full Lotus 1260
> > > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis
> > > takes over.
> > >
> > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218585#218585
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ==================================
>
>
> >
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
Lynn:
Do you use a tail ski? A lot of the bush pilots I've talked to say the use
of a tail ski only throws off the balance of a light plane. Heavier planes
like the DHC-3 Otter really need a tail ski. I seem to remember seeing
pictures of a DC-3 on skis with a tail ski.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: first flight on skis this year
That's a good idea, Pat. I hadn't thought about doing that since I
decided to just eliminate the portion of ski right behind the wheel.
Doing this serves two purposes....it eliminates the cheese cutter,
and eliminates the area that tends to collect snow...two birds, one
stone. : )
I saw a picture of a skiplane that had the rear of the ski bent up,
and I was able to do that mod on mine (like Gary said), but didn't
really think of the area right behind the wheel at that time. Even
now, I have to hook up the winch to drag mine back into the hangar
after first shoveling the snow from behind it. My new skis will have
the rear portion bent up a bit more.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:59 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, What about curving the edge behind the wheel up similar to
> the front of the ski to eliminate the "cheese cutter effect?
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 rebuild
> Rockford, IL
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Chris,
I think you bring up an interesting point. For sure we don't know what
exactly went in to the decision to increase the max gross wt. But I think
it is interesting that in almost every case of this happening, the builder
has opted for an engine that is much heavier than the engines the airframe
was designed for. I have yet to see a Kitfox with a R-582 or 912 increase
the gross wt, with the one exception - the increase allowable with floats.
Regarding beefing up struts, landing gear, cross members in the frame etc.,
in my forced landing, the beefed up landing gear survived the crash
virtually unscathed. It was sold intact by the salvage company. I sort of
wish that the landing gear would have absorbed more of the energy of the
crash and maybe the airframe (and my back) wouldn't have taken all the
grief.
I mention this because most engineered structures are engineered as a unit.
Increasing any one component without reengineering the whole unit can focus
stress at unintended points and rather than the whole structure absorbing
stresses, the stresses can be focused at a single point and the structure
can fail at below originally engineered stress levels. I can't imagine that
adding a cross member between two half inch .035 wall thickness longerons
would increase the longeron strength.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "lowflyer" <buddcr@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> Has anyone ever thought that maybe the builder of this aircraft has
> engineered the aircraft to accepted the increase in load? Maybe additional
> cross members on the frame, heavy duty gear, larger struts, etc, etc...
>
> I understand as a builder of a kit you have the freedom to change things.
> The manufacturer of the kit has set some guidelines as to what specs they
> have tested the kit to. If you want to go beyond these limits you can but
> you need to understand the implications associated with the increases. If
> you account for the increase in weight appropriately with additional
> modifications then you should be okay.
>
> No one really knows why the increase was there and if it was accounted for
> by additional engineering and modifications.
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Chris Budd
> N53RJ
> Model IV Speedster
> 76hp 2180 VW, 230hrs
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218673#218673
>
>
>
Message 17
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Lynn:
I think there is two things going on with the geese. First of all they move
together form a pretty broad area in the north so if a goose approached the
flight from the left it will join the left side of the wing... approaching
from the right it will join the right side of the wing. If you have more
geese joining from the east the left wing will be longer.
Geese fly to amazing altitudes and to get there they must fly in clear
undisturbed air. That is why they do not follow directly behind one and
other or disorganized flocks like smaller birds. The want to fly close to
th4e bird in front but not in its wake. I don't know if the lead bird
changes position in the middle of a leg of the migration but I guess he is
probably the first one going that direction.
On the other hand your instructor is right... Doh!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
I could chop some ice and send it to you, Gary...: )
Strange sight here today....a circular hole about 50 feet across in
an otherwise frozen lake near here, and surrounded by ducks, geese,
and maybe a swan or two...like they were having a tribal meeting or
something.
Another oddity...my flight instructor called me outside his hangar
(where I was working) to see a HUGE flock of geese flying over. He
asked if I knew why the one line of geese was longer than the
other...I didn't....he said that's because there were more geese in
that line....DUH!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:52 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn
>
> I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter
> and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air
> into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket
> draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders
> and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom
>
> I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends.
>
> By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were
> up to standard summer temps.
>
> This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank
> every time.
>
> That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide Australia, my biggest
> winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks!
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
Message 18
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To further spoil a classic joke, as engineers(myself especially) are known
to do, my version is:
Q: Have you ever noticed those V-shaped flocks of geese, how one line is
always longer than the other? Do you know why that is?
A: More geese...!
Now the engineer's answer - geese are well know to pair off permanently and
early in life. If you form pairs into a V with one at the lead you will
always have one line longer than the other. Simple.
I can spoil the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" conundrum too...
DO NOT ARCHIVE - WAY off topic!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: 11 December 2008 11:16 am
Subject: Kitfox-List: Geese Off topic
Lynn:
I think there is two things going on with the geese. First of all they move
together form a pretty broad area in the north so if a goose approached the
flight from the left it will join the left side of the wing... approaching
from the right it will join the right side of the wing. If you have more
geese joining from the east the left wing will be longer.
Geese fly to amazing altitudes and to get there they must fly in clear
undisturbed air. That is why they do not follow directly behind one and
other or disorganized flocks like smaller birds. The want to fly close to
th4e bird in front but not in its wake. I don't know if the lead bird
changes position in the middle of a leg of the migration but I guess he is
probably the first one going that direction.
On the other hand your instructor is right... Doh!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
I could chop some ice and send it to you, Gary...: )
Strange sight here today....a circular hole about 50 feet across in
an otherwise frozen lake near here, and surrounded by ducks, geese,
and maybe a swan or two...like they were having a tribal meeting or
something.
Another oddity...my flight instructor called me outside his hangar
(where I was working) to see a HUGE flock of geese flying over. He
asked if I knew why the one line of geese was longer than the
other...I didn't....he said that's because there were more geese in
that line....DUH!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 10, 2008, at 6:52 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn
>
> I used a small electric forced air space heater - I used a splitter
> and some of the cheap aluminum clothes dryer ducting to feed air
> into the two air inlets at the front of the cowl and a blanket
> draped over the top of the cowl. The air would warm the cylinders
> and then flow down around the crankcase and out the bottom
>
> I had this on a timer that came on at about 7.00am on weekends.
>
> By the time I got to the field all of my temps (CHT and Oil) were
> up to standard summer temps.
>
> This worked down to -20 degC and my Jab 2200 started first crank
> every time.
>
> That was in N.Ontario - now in Adelaide Australia, my biggest
> winter problem is finding enough ice for my drinks!
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Yea Dick, and I've been thinking of getting skis so I can land on the
sand at White Sands National Monument.
Pete
Hell Paso, TX
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:18 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Pete,
I have the same problem here in Florida. A block of ice on the engine
will usually get the engine cold enough so you don't over heat it! Sure
hate to see Christmas go by. I know the ground hog will bring us another
hot,muggy summer shortly there after!
Dick Maddux
Pensacola,Fl
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Liability) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado
>
> Just a thought here guys before you jump.
> (snip)
>> Doesn't even have to be the person you hurt a disgruntled family member
>> could come and get you.
It gets even worse than this. One of the main reasons we have cancelled all
fluture
Cameron Park Kitfox Fly-in's - Unless a miracle happens - is because an
injured persons medical insurance will go after anyone they think they can
recoup medical costs from. It happened to me once because of a minor injury
at one of our fly-ins and on one other occasion where a family member was
involved. One other thought, if you think $100,000 liability coverage
protects you in any way, consider that my wife's emergency room bill was
$39,000 and all they did is give her a tetanus shot and clean out a puncture
wound to her leg.
I am seriously considering leaving my right seat permanently empty for this
exact reason. As an old retired guy, what I have accumulated in life is all
I will ever have.
Lowell
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
Will do, Noel.
Every time I look at pictures of skis, I get another idea...I just
looked again at the Wipaire skis, and noticed they bend the outer
edges of the ski up a slight amount, like a spray rail on a boat, I'd
imagine. I'm back to the drawing board.......: )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I'm with you on the redundancy! This is a case where more is better.
>
> The plate I was talking about is more of an install plate than a
> sliding
> plate. The first skis I ever installed were manual hydraulic sliding
> plates. The skis were mounted on springs that allowed the ski to be
> displaced an inch or so as the plate was actuated in flight. It was
> reasonable complex and added weight but gave a lot more flotation
> to the
> skis for use in powder snow. The guy who flew the plane said he
> only ever
> closed the plate when he expected deep powder.
>
> As with most things there is the element of compromise. Your light
> plane
> doesn't need the flotation that an overloaded Super Cub in ten feet of
> powder snow would need.
>
> Don't forget to post a few pictures of the new skis once they are
> christened.
>
> Noel
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
Please do, Noel...for Gary AND me.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:57 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Gary:
>
> The guy I bought my plane from only flew it on skis... No one has
> flown the bird on wheels yet J . He built a set of back up points
> that slid under the skis and were held in place with bungee
> chords. He used to tow the plane to a bog behind his snowmobile
> for takeoff. Only thing he mentioned to me was to be extremely
> careful to remove the reverse tips before taking off.
>
> If you want Ill dig them out and take a couple of pictures.
>
> Noel
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
I was thinking of using one, but I'm not committed to it yet. That
was one of the things that I thought might help with the "getting (un)
stuck in 9" of snow" problem that I had last year.
So far I've been ok without one, but......
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn:
>
> Do you use a tail ski? A lot of the bush pilots I've talked to say
> the use
> of a tail ski only throws off the balance of a light plane.
> Heavier planes
> like the DHC-3 Otter really need a tail ski. I seem to remember
> seeing
> pictures of a DC-3 on skis with a tail ski.
>
> Noel
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Geese Off topic |
There were more "righties" than "lefties" in both of the "V's" that
flew over yesterday.
I thought the flying out of the wake thing was to allow more cooling
air into the radiator a la Nascar. :)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:15 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn:
>
> I think there is two things going on with the geese. First of all
> they move
> together form a pretty broad area in the north so if a goose
> approached the
> flight from the left it will join the left side of the wing...
> approaching
> from the right it will join the right side of the wing. If you
> have more
> geese joining from the east the left wing will be longer.
>
> Geese fly to amazing altitudes and to get there they must fly in clear
> undisturbed air. That is why they do not follow directly behind
> one and
> other or disorganized flocks like smaller birds. The want to fly
> close to
> th4e bird in front but not in its wake. I don't know if the lead bird
> changes position in the middle of a leg of the migration but I
> guess he is
> probably the first one going that direction.
>
> On the other hand your instructor is right... Doh!
>
> Noel
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Geese Off topic |
Well, you had me fooled, Bob (about being an engineer, that is) : )
(that's a joke...no harm intended)
A guy I knew used as part of his email signature: "You can always
tell an engineer.....but you can't tell him much!"
Well, what about the chicken and the egg? Don't leave us hanging....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> To further spoil a classic joke, as engineers(myself especially)
> are known
> to do, my version is:
>
> Q: Have you ever noticed those V-shaped flocks of geese, how one
> line is
> always longer than the other? Do you know why that is?
> A: More geese...!
>
> Now the engineer's answer - geese are well know to pair off
> permanently and
> early in life. If you form pairs into a V with one at the lead you
> will
> always have one line longer than the other. Simple.
>
> I can spoil the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
> conundrum too...
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE - WAY off topic!
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
Message 26
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| Subject: | FREE Rotax 912 seminar |
ROTAX 912 SEMINAR IN LAKELAND
A free seminar covering the operation and maintenance of the Rotax
912-series engines, hosted at the FAA's Lakeland, Florida, studio, will take
on January 3, 2009. Speakers Phil Lockwood, Jay Kurtz, and Ben Coleman will
address topics of interest to pilots and mechanics, including the
qualifications and training required to legally perform non-owner
maintenance on S-LSA, oil choices, mishap prevention strategies, and
compliance with light-sport regulations. For more information or to reserve
your seat visit www.faasafety.gov or contact Terri Kurtz at 863-602-1032.
Nothing to do with me, this announcement was in my EAA e-Hotline newsletter
and I am posting it here for those who may not have seen it. If it was for a
582 I might add "see you there!"
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
You guys are killing me! I gotta go hang a prop on my plane in a 14
hangar....and those are real degrees...F's, not those wimpy-ass C
things. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Pete Christensen wrote:
> Yea Dick, and I've been thinking of getting skis so I can land on
> the sand at White Sands National Monument.
>
> Pete
> Hell Paso, TX
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Catz631@aol.com
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
>
> Pete,
> I have the same problem here in Florida. A block of ice on the
> engine will usually get the engine cold enough so you don't over
> heat it! Sure hate to see Christmas go by. I know the ground hog
> will bring us another hot,muggy summer shortly there after!
> Dick Maddux
> Pensacola,Fl
>
>
Message 28
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|
I'm a software engineer actually, the worst kind of engineer! I've been told
"pedantic" is not a strong enough word as applied to myself. ;-)
I like your engineer quote, have you heard my favorite pilot one:
Q: How can you tell if there is a pilot at a party?
A: He'll tell you.
<boring>The egg came first. There are many animals that lay eggs but no
chickens that give birth other than by laying eggs. Therefore chickens, and
most other egg-layers, evolved from a common egg-laying ancestor who(which?)
was not a chicken, therefore eggs existed before chickens.</end boring>
Or there's the other, less polite answer: "Who cares who came first, what I
want to know is what was a chicken doing bonking an egg!?"
DO NOT ARCHIVE - way WAY off topic!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 11 December 2008 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Geese Off topic
Well, you had me fooled, Bob (about being an engineer, that is) : )
(that's a joke...no harm intended)
A guy I knew used as part of his email signature: "You can always
tell an engineer.....but you can't tell him much!"
Well, what about the chicken and the egg? Don't leave us hanging....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> To further spoil a classic joke, as engineers(myself especially)
> are known
> to do, my version is:
>
> Q: Have you ever noticed those V-shaped flocks of geese, how one
> line is
> always longer than the other? Do you know why that is?
> A: More geese...!
>
> Now the engineer's answer - geese are well know to pair off
> permanently and
> early in life. If you form pairs into a V with one at the lead you
> will
> always have one line longer than the other. Simple.
>
> I can spoil the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
> conundrum too...
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE - WAY off topic!
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
Message 29
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| Subject: | cold weather starting |
so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into. devices are
available that will turn on an electric appliance with a call to a
landline phone. safe aviation preheat systems are available. fleet farm
also carries 150 watt oil pan heaters similiar to the aviation stuff.
use your imagination on this............ a phone call to your hangar
turns on your preheat or a call turns it off. life would be perfect if a
unit worked with a cell phone!
bob noffs
Message 30
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
> Light bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the
> bottom of the cowl.
Incandescent bulbs can't be purchased in the US anymore anyhow. I certainly agree
about being dangerous. A single drop of water will break one and if there is fuel
residue, then you have a fire.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather starting |
.....and a wrong number call to your hangar in the middle of the
night, cutting off your warming and thus delays your attempt at a new
worlds record for...(insert your own dream)
(this must be the silly season) please do not archive
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:28 PM, bob noffs wrote:
> so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into.
> devices are available that will turn on an electric appliance with
> a call to a landline phone. safe aviation preheat systems are
> available. fleet farm also carries 150 watt oil pan heaters
> similiar to the aviation stuff. use your imagination on
> this............ a phone call to your hangar turns on your preheat
> or a call turns it off. life would be perfect if a unit worked with
> a cell phone!
> bob noffs
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
That's what it was called!
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
11/12/2008 10:13 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Sounds like flashing material for roof work.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 3:55 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> I made my own Jim from some scrap aluminum - basically I made two x
> 4" tubes and riveted them to an aluminum enclosure which I just
> taped to the heater using aluminum duct tape.
>
> I used that really light aluminum that you buy in a roll from
> hardware stores
>
> Gary
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=5F-
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=5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
=5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
W...H...A...T...? They can't be purchased? That's news to me...I
could have sworn....well, I just verified that at my local hardware I
can still buy incandescent bulbs, but they don't know for how many
more years. That may be a west coast thing, Paul?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 2:05 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>> Light bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate
>> from the
>> bottom of the cowl.
>
> Incandescent bulbs can't be purchased in the US anymore anyhow. I
> certainly agree
> about being dangerous. A single drop of water will break one and if
> there is fuel
> residue, then you have a fire.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
Lynn=2C The guy lives in NC. He thinks cold is 50 degrees F=2C and skis wer
e invented to use on water.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold wea
ther starting> Date: Thu=2C 11 Dec 2008 06:43:30 -0500> To: kitfox-list@mat
s.net>> > Ok=2C Steve=2C bend over....I would think that starting fluid jus
t gets > the engine started=2C without giving any warmth to the oil and the
rest > of the engine. I'm sure that even the most greedy of the engine > d
ealers...no names=2C please...would suggest that you warm the engine > to a
llow for free oil flow and less scraping/friction/damage when it > does sta
rt. I'm thinking that if you NEED starting fluid=2C something > isn't right
...too much friction=2C too much drag on the starter=2C > bringing the batt
ery down=2C cold fuel=2C etc.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C tail
dragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 593hrs> Sensenich 62x46> flying again afte
r rebuild=2C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition > system=3B> also buil
ding a new pair of snow skis> > > > > On Dec 10=2C 2008=2C at 9:52 PM=2C Sb
ennett3@aol.com wrote:> > > My engine heater is a can of start fluid on tho
se cold mornings... > > (30 to 35f) I've been spanked on this group before
so have at it. > > Steve Bennett NC USA 4/1200 912ul> >> > In a message dat
ed 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time=2C > > patreilly43@hotmail
.com writes:> > Lynn=2C What is an "enclosure heater"?> >> >> > Pat Reilly>
======> > >
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
I have a Reiff pre-heat system on my engine as well, but prefer the
el-cheapo space heater system. It simply heats the entire engine and engine
compartment to a nice cozy temp quite easily.
Jeff
icubob(at)newnorth.net wrote:
> so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into. devices are available
that will turn on an electric appliance with a call to a landline phone.
safe aviation preheat systems are available. fleet farm also carries 150 watt
oil pan heaters similiar to the aviation stuff. use your imagination on this............
a phone call to your hangar turns on your preheat or a call turns
it off. life would be perfect if a unit worked with a cell phone!
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218963#218963
Message 36
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
Lynn=2C I think I read WA and CA were trying to secede from the union. Mayb
e they already have. CA has a German governor and some thing about the peop
le on the west coast aren't white=2C black=2C yellow or brown anymore=2C so
mething about they were turning green. I think this light bulb thing has so
mething to do with that.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: incandescent lights
as heaters> Date: Thu=2C 11 Dec 2008 16:20:58 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matro
net>> > W...H...A...T...? They can't be purchased? That's news to me...I >
could have sworn....well=2C I just verified that at my local hardware I > c
an still buy incandescent bulbs=2C but they don't know for how many > more
years. That may be a west coast thing=2C Paul?> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV
Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 593hrs> Sensenich 62x46>
flying again after rebuild=2C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition > sys
tem=3B> also building a new pair of snow skis> do not archive> > > > On Dec
11=2C 2008=2C at 2:05 PM=2C Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:> > > --> Kitfox-
List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" > > <paul@eucleides.com>>
>> >> Light bulbs are too dangerous=2C IMHO=2C and too hard to manipulate >
>> from the> >> bottom of the cowl.> >> > Incandescent bulbs can't be purc
hased in the US anymore anyhow. I > > certainly agree> > about being danger
ous. A single drop of water will break one and if > > there is fuel> > resi
due=2C then you have a fire.> >> > -- > > Paul A. Franz> > Registration/Air
craft - N14UW/Merlin GT> > Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP> > Bellevue WA>
===> > >
Message 37
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| Subject: | Dead stick practice |
I have lately begun to think that all this talk of dead stick
practice (6 months ago or so) may have some merit after all, so today
after installing my new (same size) prop, I went for a flight. My
hangar mate and his wife were out flying, and after meeting them for
a late lunch, we took off again...me to log some more time, and he to
return to the hangar. I told him I'd hang nearby in case he needed
help putting it away. Feeling the need for something out of the
ordinary, I hung around over our strip at about 6,000' MSL
(5,000'AGL), and when he landed, I radioed him to see if he could see
me. He reported that I stuck out like a sore thumb. I told him I was
going to cut the engine and bring it in. I had to point it up to
actually get the prop to stop, and it was nice and quiet for awhile.
Then I heard a radio call that someone was east of Napoleon (3NP),
inbound for a landing on 27. I made my presence known, telling the
guy that I was at 5,700' and dead stick. He replied that he would be
on the lookout for me, and added "Good luck." I thanked him, but
assured him that this was a voluntary dead stick, and I'd be heading
for a strip 2 miles SE of Napoleon. I didn't get a reply...he was
probably thinking "dumb sh--, probably another Jabiru driver, and
needs the practice." Of course he was right. So I'm bringing it
home, circling the field, losing it a couple of times along the way,
finding it on the GPS, then in "person", and at about 3000' started
to get serious about paying attention to where I was. It all went
beautifully, and I made another 360 turn at about 1000' AGL, then,
flaps at half-mast, I slipped it down to what felt right, and it
seemed like I was a bit short, so I pointed it down, got some speed
up and made the field with plenty to spare, landing about 1/3 of the
way down the 1700' field. As soon as I was basically stopped, just
rolling, I refired the engine, which didn't act as if it knew it had
been stopped, and taxied to the hangar. My friend asked if I
chickened out on the dead stick, and I said no way, and his wife told
him she saw the prop stopped for as long as she could see the plane,
almost. (His eyes must be as bad as my hearing) That was a lot of
fun, and I plan on doing more, now that I know that the engine will
start so easily.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Good 'un, Pat! (sorry 'bout that, Steve) : )
Now to keep it educational, here is a shot of my enclosure heater.
The only part that gets shoved up the.....I mean inserted into the
lower cowl, is the metal and fiberglass tape, not the wood. I had
just removed it from the engine and it was hot, so I laid it on he
wood. When I got there today, the oil temp was 104=B0 F, and the heads
were 64=B0 F. By the way, the exposed electrical studs never get near
anything metallic...I should insulate them somehow, but haven't
really looked into what I could use...maybe more of the fiberglass
tape. Or at least get pretty and put terminals on those bare wires.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 4:27 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, The guy lives in NC. He thinks cold is 50 degrees F, and skis
> were invented to use on water.
>
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
Message 39
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
Hey Guys=2C Another good book is "Mavericks of the Sky". It is about the in
ception of U.S. Airmail.
Pat Reilly
Mod3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: Patrick.Best@telus.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thu=2C 11 Dec 2008 10:13:59 -0500> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Cold w
k.Best@telus.com>> > I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot=2C like the
northern bush-pilot pioneers!> > For those of you who don't know what that
is....> > When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in no
rthern Canada=2C the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to drain the oi
l from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring it indoors over night
. The next morning=2C in temperatures as low as -60 F (yes=2C that's a real
temp)=2C the engineer would shroud the engine=2C light the kersone blow-po
t stove and heat the oil in the buckets for a couple of hours. Then it woul
d be poured back into the engine for the flight.> > > I read it in this FAS
CINATING book. I would completely recommend it. It's about 1930's era Junke
rs with skis. Crashes and flying without reliable maps. Good pictures too.>
> The site says it's out of print=2C but there's probably many copies arou
nd still.> > http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots> > >
=================> > >
Message 40
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
Lynn=2C Thanks for the picture. I have a 582 greyhead watercooled and have
installed a block heater in the hose below the pump inlet. Don't know how i
t will work yet. It is simple and cheap enough to try anyway.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weat
her starting> Date: Thu=2C 11 Dec 2008 17:04:32 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matr
onics.com> > Good 'un=2C Pat! (sorry 'bout that=2C Steve) : )> > Now to kee
p it educational=2C here is a shot of my enclosure heater. > The only part
that gets shoved up the.....I mean inserted into the > lower cowl=2C is the
metal and fiberglass tape=2C not the wood. I had > just removed it from th
e engine and it was hot=2C so I laid it on he > wood. When I got there toda
y=2C the oil temp was 104=B0 F=2C and the heads > were 64=B0 F. By the way
=2C the exposed electrical studs never get near > anything metallic...I sho
uld insulate them somehow=2C but haven't > really looked into what I could
use...maybe more of the fiberglass > tape. Or at least get pretty and put t
erminals on those bare wires.>
Message 41
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| Subject: | RE: Dead stick practice |
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> I had to point it up to actually get the prop to stop
Hum, my prop always stops when I switch out the magnetos, Lynn. With the Rans I
was trained on, and a Rotax 912, I needed a bit of nose-up but not with the Jabiru.
Perhaps that's because I fly slower than you and ... do my dead stick only
on long final, knowing that I have enough altitude to make the runway.
On the other hand, I always land smoother when without engine. Not sure why. Could
be that I am more concentrated ... white knuckles ... beads of sweat on my
forehead :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as a PAX
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Pat, I didn't say 50 is cold... plus I have a heater in my plane. 40 is
pushing it a bit...:-) Oh ya, and I know about the water ski thing, but how
about them go carts they put skis on the front of... Now that's innovation...
Steve (no need for skis) Bennett NC guy...
In a message dated 12/11/2008 4:29:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
patreilly43@hotmail.com writes:
Lynn, The guy lives in NC. He thinks cold is 50 degrees F, and skis were
invented to use on water.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:43:30 -0500
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
>
> Ok, Steve, bend over....I would think that starting fluid just gets
> the engine started, without giving any warmth to the oil and the rest
> of the engine. I'm sure that even the most greedy of the engine
> dealers...no names, please...would suggest that you warm the engine
> to allow for free oil flow and less scraping/friction/damage when it
> does start. I'm thinking that if you NEED starting fluid, something
> isn't right...too much friction, too much drag on the starter,
> bringing the battery down, cold fuel, etc.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
>
> > My engine heater is a can of start fluid on those cold mornings...
> > (30 to 35f) I've been spanked on this group before so have at it.
> > Steve Bennett NC USA 4/1200 912ul
> >
> > In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > patreilly43@hotmail.com writes:
> > Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?
> >
> >
> > Pat Reilly
> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> > Rockford, IL
> >
> >====================
> _======
>
>
>
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List)
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
On Thu, December 11, 2008 1:20 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> W...H...A...T...? They can't be purchased? That's news to me...I
> could have sworn....well, I just verified that at my local hardware I
> can still buy incandescent bulbs, but they don't know for how many
> more years. That may be a west coast thing, Paul?
Maybe so, but they haven't been available here for a few years. I thought it was
nationwide and that the only ones being sold were to clear out inventory. The date
for
that passed here sometime in 2006.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Geese Off topic |
You did hear the one about the chicken and egg who were lying in bed
after just having a 'go of it'? The chicken lit up a cigarette,
looked at the egg and said: I guess that answers that question.
Think about it.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> >
>
> I'm a software engineer actually, the worst kind of engineer! I've
> been told
> "pedantic" is not a strong enough word as applied to myself. ;-)
>
> I like your engineer quote, have you heard my favorite pilot one:
> Q: How can you tell if there is a pilot at a party?
> A: He'll tell you.
>
> <boring>The egg came first. There are many animals that lay eggs but
> no
> chickens that give birth other than by laying eggs. Therefore
> chickens, and
> most other egg-layers, evolved from a common egg-laying ancestor
> who(which?)
> was not a chicken, therefore eggs existed before chickens.</end
> boring>
>
> Or there's the other, less polite answer: "Who cares who came first,
> what I
> want to know is what was a chicken doing bonking an egg!?"
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE - way WAY off topic!
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 11 December 2008 12:28 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Geese Off topic
>
>
> Well, you had me fooled, Bob (about being an engineer, that is) : )
> (that's a joke...no harm intended)
>
> A guy I knew used as part of his email signature: "You can always
> tell an engineer.....but you can't tell him much!"
>
> Well, what about the chicken and the egg? Don't leave us hanging....
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>>
>> To further spoil a classic joke, as engineers(myself especially)
>> are known
>> to do, my version is:
>>
>> Q: Have you ever noticed those V-shaped flocks of geese, how one
>> line is
>> always longer than the other? Do you know why that is?
>> A: More geese...!
>>
>> Now the engineer's answer - geese are well know to pair off
>> permanently and
>> early in life. If you form pairs into a V with one at the lead you
>> will
>> always have one line longer than the other. Simple.
>>
>> I can spoil the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
>> conundrum too...
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE - WAY off topic!
>> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>> Wrightsville Pa
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
On Thu, December 11, 2008 1:39 pm, patrick reilly wrote:
>
> Lynn, I think I read WA and CA were trying to secede from the union. Maybe they
> already have. CA has a German governor and some thing about the people on the
west
> coast aren't white, black, yellow or brown anymore, something about they were
turning
> green. I think this light bulb thing has something to do with that.
Don't leave OR out. They are every bit as left wing liberal extreme as CA and WA.
It
really sucks for sure. New CA emissions are going to cost me $12k per trailer to
retrofit the Reefer engines for compliance or don't haul from or through the state
after Jan 1. OR road use taxes are 13.66 cents per mile for diesel powered commercial
vehicles. That translates to 70 cents per gallon fuel tax making it double the
cost of
any other state.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
Interesting....I left California in 2001, and hadn't heard of this at
that point. Of course, Cal. is always ahead of the rest of us for
better OR worse.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
>
> On Thu, December 11, 2008 1:20 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>> W...H...A...T...? They can't be purchased? That's news to me...I
>> could have sworn....well, I just verified that at my local hardware I
>> can still buy incandescent bulbs, but they don't know for how many
>> more years. That may be a west coast thing, Paul?
>
> Maybe so, but they haven't been available here for a few years. I
> thought it was
> nationwide and that the only ones being sold were to clear out
> inventory. The date for
> that passed here sometime in 2006.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Geese Off topic |
Got it....cute.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:27 PM, Weiss Richard wrote:
> You did hear the one about the chicken and egg who were lying in
> bed after just having a 'go of it'? The chicken lit up a
> cigarette, looked at the egg and said: I guess that answers that
> question.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Rick Weiss
Message 48
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
Paul=2C Sorry=2C I thought about including OR=2C but didn't. The rest of us
would be a hell of alot better if those 3 states just slid into the sea al
ong with the people that run them. And=2C it is too bad because that area i
s so beautiful. I think the northern 1/2 of the other coast isn't any bette
r. I know this is off topic. I won't mention it again.
Do Not Archive
Pat Reilly> Date: Thu=2C 11 Dec 2008 15:31:07 -0800> Subject: RE: Kitfox-Li
st: RE: incandescent lights as heaters> From: paul@eucleides.com> To: kitfo
rlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>> > On Thu=2C December 11=2C 2008 1:39 pm=2C p
atrick reilly wrote:> >> > Lynn=2C I think I read WA and CA were trying to
secede from the union. Maybe they> > already have. CA has a German governor
and some thing about the people on the west> > coast aren't white=2C black
=2C yellow or brown anymore=2C something about they were turning> > green.
I think this light bulb thing has something to do with that.> > Don't leave
OR out. They are every bit as left wing liberal extreme as CA and WA. It>
really sucks for sure. New CA emissions are going to cost me $12k per trail
er to> retrofit the Reefer engines for compliance or don't haul from or thr
ough the state> after Jan 1. OR road use taxes are 13.66 cents per mile for
diesel powered commercial> vehicles. That translates to 70 cents per gallo
n fuel tax making it double the cost of> any other state.> > -- > Paul A. F
ranz> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI
========================> _
===> > >
Message 49
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters (Reply is off topic) |
The trouble with Oregon is it got "Californicated" in the 1960's. They
moved in and damn near took over the state government, and changed the state
so much, I moved out of it.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -
Merlin GT
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: incandescent lights as heaters
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Thu, December 11, 2008 1:39 pm, patrick reilly wrote:
>
> Lynn, I think I read WA and CA were trying to secede from the union. Maybe
they
> already have. CA has a German governor and some thing about the people on
the west
> coast aren't white, black, yellow or brown anymore, something about they
were turning
> green. I think this light bulb thing has something to do with that.
Don't leave OR out. They are every bit as left wing liberal extreme as CA
and WA. It
really sucks for sure. New CA emissions are going to cost me $12k per
trailer to
retrofit the Reefer engines for compliance or don't haul from or through the
state
after Jan 1. OR road use taxes are 13.66 cents per mile for diesel powered
commercial
vehicles. That translates to 70 cents per gallon fuel tax making it double
the cost of
any other state.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather starting |
hi lynn,
i may be wrong but i would assume you key in some numbers to activate the
device, the same as you do to get your answering machine to play your
messages. i live about 45 minutes from the airport and at least warm oil
when i get there would be good for engine life. i do have a red dragon
propane preheater that worked fine on a lyc. but i know it didnt do much for
the oil temp.
one way or another i am leaning toward an electric preheat system for
next year.
bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cold weather starting
>
> .....and a wrong number call to your hangar in the middle of the night,
> cutting off your warming and thus delays your attempt at a new worlds
> record for...(insert your own dream)
>
> (this must be the silly season) please do not archive
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:28 PM, bob noffs wrote:
>
>> so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into. devices are
>> available that will turn on an electric appliance with a call to a
>> landline phone. safe aviation preheat systems are available. fleet farm
>> also carries 150 watt oil pan heaters similiar to the aviation stuff.
>> use your imagination on this............ a phone call to your hangar
>> turns on your preheat or a call turns it off. life would be perfect if a
>> unit worked with a cell phone!
>> bob noffs
>>
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
Just got back from the local Home Depot. Lots of incandescent bulbs there.
So it isn't CA.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: incandescent lights as heaters
>
> Interesting....I left California in 2001, and hadn't heard of this at
> that point. Of course, Cal. is always ahead of the rest of us for better
> OR worse.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:18 PM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
>
>> <paul@eucleides.com>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, December 11, 2008 1:20 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>>
>>> W...H...A...T...? They can't be purchased? That's news to me...I
>>> could have sworn....well, I just verified that at my local hardware I
>>> can still buy incandescent bulbs, but they don't know for how many
>>> more years. That may be a west coast thing, Paul?
>>
>> Maybe so, but they haven't been available here for a few years. I
>> thought it was
>> nationwide and that the only ones being sold were to clear out
>> inventory. The date for
>> that passed here sometime in 2006.
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Franz, P.E.
>
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather starting |
Oh yeah, like an extension number that (probably) no one else would
know about. Yeah, Bob, that makes perfect sense now. I live 4 miles
from my hangar, and I leave my heater on all the time, because I fly
a lot and I want it ready to go when the weather allows for it. I
think that cycling on and off leads to condensation buildup. My
system warms the whole engine and even the cowl (under the blanket),
so condensation cannot collect...at least so far that's been the
case. I haven't figured what it costs to run (200 watts x 5 hours=1
kilowatt hour=how much per KW hour? dunno) but this times 5 would be
about one day's run cost. If I could find my electric bill, I could
figure what I'm costing my hangar landlord, and maybe back off on the
24x7 usage of the heater.
I haven't tried any tests to determine if cycling the heater actually
causes condensation to appear, but maybe a 4 hr cycle would retain
enough heat between cycles to avoid moisture. If I had a recording
humidity gauge (gotta be a fancier word for that, but it's too late
at night for me to think clearly), maybe I could determine if this
was feasible.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 7:34 PM, bob noffs wrote:
>
> hi lynn,
> i may be wrong but i would assume you key in some numbers to
> activate the device, the same as you do to get your answering
> machine to play your messages. i live about 45 minutes from the
> airport and at least warm oil when i get there would be good for
> engine life. i do have a red dragon propane preheater that worked
> fine on a lyc. but i know it didnt do much for the oil temp.
> one way or another i am leaning toward an electric preheat system
> for next year.
> bob noffs
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
NOT California?...man, that's a shocker! How did California let
another state beat them to banning something first? I say that with
only a teeny amount of jest...the rest is pure scorn.
Example: I lived in Yolo county, where a certain type of paint
thinner (can't recall) was banned, but it was readily available for a
14 mile drive across the river to Sacramento in Sacramento County.
The hypocrisy was ridiculous in that atmosphere, and I stayed long
enough to earn a small pension, then bailed....I learned MY hypocrisy
from the experts. :(
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:41 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
> <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>
> Just got back from the local Home Depot. Lots of incandescent
> bulbs there. So it isn't CA.
>
> Lowell
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
Steve:
Remind me not to by one of your used engines..
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Ok, Steve, bend over....I would think that starting fluid just gets
the engine started, without giving any warmth to the oil and the rest
of the engine. I'm sure that even the most greedy of the engine
dealers...no names, please...would suggest that you warm the engine
to allow for free oil flow and less scraping/friction/damage when it
does start. I'm thinking that if you NEED starting fluid, something
isn't right...too much friction, too much drag on the starter,
bringing the battery down, cold fuel, etc.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Sbennett3@aol.com wrote:
> My engine heater is a can of start fluid on those cold mornings...
> (30 to 35f) I've been spanked on this group before so have at it.
> Steve Bennett NC USA 4/1200 912ul
>
> In a message dated 12/10/2008 9:40:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> patreilly43@hotmail.com writes:
> Lynn, What is an "enclosure heater"?
>
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | first flight on skis this year |
I'd guess that makes the skis not want to grab a crease in the snow as well
as give structural rigidity to the ski... My composite skis are turned up
at the edges too.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: first flight on skis this year
Will do, Noel.
Every time I look at pictures of skis, I get another idea...I just
looked again at the Wipaire skis, and noticed they bend the outer
edges of the ski up a slight amount, like a spray rail on a boat, I'd
imagine. I'm back to the drawing board.......: )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:50 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I'm with you on the redundancy! This is a case where more is better.
>
> The plate I was talking about is more of an install plate than a
> sliding
> plate. The first skis I ever installed were manual hydraulic sliding
> plates. The skis were mounted on springs that allowed the ski to be
> displaced an inch or so as the plate was actuated in flight. It was
> reasonable complex and added weight but gave a lot more flotation
> to the
> skis for use in powder snow. The guy who flew the plane said he
> only ever
> closed the plate when he expected deep powder.
>
> As with most things there is the element of compromise. Your light
> plane
> doesn't need the flotation that an overloaded Super Cub in ten feet of
> powder snow would need.
>
> Don't forget to post a few pictures of the new skis once they are
> christened.
>
> Noel
>
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters ( Not Kitfox related) |
Lynn,
It gets worse and worse. This state is run by idiots. There is simply not
enough room on the list to even begin.
Lowell
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: incandescent lights as heaters
>
> NOT California?...man, that's a shocker! How did California let another
> state beat them to banning something first? I say that with only a teeny
> amount of jest...the rest is pure scorn.
> Example: I lived in Yolo county, where a certain type of paint thinner
> (can't recall) was banned, but it was readily available for a 14 mile
> drive across the river to Sacramento in Sacramento County. The hypocrisy
> was ridiculous in that atmosphere, and I stayed long enough to earn a
> small pension, then bailed....I learned MY hypocrisy from the experts. :(
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:41 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> Just got back from the local Home Depot. Lots of incandescent bulbs
>> there. So it isn't CA.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
Wal-Mart has thousands of them... They also have the compact fluorescent
but I haven't seen too many of the LED replacement bulbs. This isn't the US
but all their stuff gets here via the US.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -
Merlin GT
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 3:35 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: incandescent lights as heaters
<paul@eucleides.com>
> Light bulbs are too dangerous, IMHO, and too hard to manipulate from the
> bottom of the cowl.
Incandescent bulbs can't be purchased in the US anymore anyhow. I certainly
agree
about being dangerous. A single drop of water will break one and if there is
fuel
residue, then you have a fire.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 58
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| Subject: | cold weather starting |
What you propose is no problem. Simply have a computer answer the phone on
the third ring ... enter a four , five or six digit DTMF code form your
phone and your heater is turned on or off. You can use this set up to
unlock doors and turn off and on lights. The answer sounds like and in fact
is an answering machine so it will take messages for you too.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cold weather starting
.....and a wrong number call to your hangar in the middle of the
night, cutting off your warming and thus delays your attempt at a new
worlds record for...(insert your own dream)
(this must be the silly season) please do not archive
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:28 PM, bob noffs wrote:
> so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into.
> devices are available that will turn on an electric appliance with
> a call to a landline phone. safe aviation preheat systems are
> available. fleet farm also carries 150 watt oil pan heaters
> similiar to the aviation stuff. use your imagination on
> this............ a phone call to your hangar turns on your preheat
> or a call turns it off. life would be perfect if a unit worked with
> a cell phone!
> bob noffs
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
On Thu, December 11, 2008 5:41 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> Just got back from the local Home Depot. Lots of incandescent bulbs there.
> So it isn't CA.
You're right, they are still legal for another year in CA.
<http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/01/how_many_legisl.html>
<http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0131-ca.html>
They're gone for the whole US by 2014.
<http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59298>
They're gone completely in my State of WA now. This article says 100 W bulbs but
no
incandescents can be found in the grocery stores, Lowes or Home Depot now.
<http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/19/incandescent-stupidity-washington-outlaws-100-watt-lightbulbs/>
More analyses here:
<http://www.envirodebate.net/Media.asp?qsForumId=19>
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 60
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| Subject: | RE: incandescent lights as heaters |
At 03:57 PM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>The rest of us would be a hell of alot better if those 3 states just
>slid into the sea along with the people that run them. And, it is
>too bad because that area is so beautiful. I think the northern 1/2
>of the other coast isn't any better. I know this is off topic. I
>won't mention it again.
Good idea Pat. Let's get this thread on a Kitfox topic, and off the
politics, please. (Feel free to take the politics off-line, though.)
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Liability) |
At 09:04 AM 12/11/2008, you wrote:
>One other thought, if you think $100,000 liability coverage protects
>you in any way
Do you really carry $100k liability, Lowell? That seems kind of low.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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