Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:33 AM - Re: first flight on skis this year (Lynn Matteson)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
3. 07:17 AM - Re: Cold weather starting (Noel Loveys)
4. 08:17 AM - Re: Re: Dead stick practice (Lynn Matteson)
5. 08:34 AM - electrical problem continued (jlno7@aim.com)
6. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Dead stick practice (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
7. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Dead stick practice (Lynn Matteson)
8. 10:26 AM - Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (lowflyer)
9. 11:05 AM - Re: Dead stick practice (Rexinator)
10. 11:19 AM - Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
11. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging (Lynn Matteson)
12. 11:51 AM - Re: Dead stick practice (Lynn Matteson)
13. 12:18 PM - cold weather starting (bob noffs)
14. 12:22 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Rick)
15. 12:49 PM - Re: electrical problem continued (Tom Jones)
16. 01:24 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Rexinator)
17. 01:26 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Rexinator)
18. 03:27 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (aerobatics@aol.com)
19. 03:56 PM - Re: cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
20. 04:16 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Randy Daughenbaugh)
21. 04:26 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Tom Jones)
22. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
23. 05:15 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (Ken Potter)
24. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Dead stick practice -Gimli Glider (Rexinator)
25. 06:31 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Lynn Matteson)
26. 06:34 PM - Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging (Lynn Matteson)
27. 07:18 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Sbennett3@aol.com)
28. 10:42 PM - Re: Re: electrical problem continued (Jim Crowder)
29. 10:46 PM - Re: Re: electrical problem continued (Jim Crowder)
30. 10:51 PM - Miss address reply (Jim Crowder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: first flight on skis this year |
Thanks for the observation, Noel. I'm gonna take all these ideas,
melt them in a big pot, and pour out something...don't know what, but
it'll be spectacular.
This will make the plywood lamination a bit trickier, but certainly
doable. I'm ordering some components for vacuum bagging, so learning
all these new skills will certainly delay the ribbon-cutting ceremony
(on the new skis) a bit. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:04 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I'd guess that makes the skis not want to grab a crease in the snow
> as well
> as give structural rigidity to the ski... My composite skis are
> turned up
> at the edges too.
>
> Noel
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather starting |
And that solution would take care of the telemarketer problem, too, I
would think.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 11:23 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> What you propose is no problem. Simply have a computer answer the
> phone on
> the third ring ... enter a four , five or six digit DTMF code form
> your
> phone and your heater is turned on or off. You can use this set up to
> unlock doors and turn off and on lights. The answer sounds like
> and in fact
> is an answering machine so it will take messages for you too.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:44 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: cold weather starting
>
>
> .....and a wrong number call to your hangar in the middle of the
> night, cutting off your warming and thus delays your attempt at a new
> worlds record for...(insert your own dream)
>
> (this must be the silly season) please do not archive
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2008, at 1:28 PM, bob noffs wrote:
>
>> so many ways to preheat. here is an angle i am looking into.
>> devices are available that will turn on an electric appliance with
>> a call to a landline phone. safe aviation preheat systems are
>> available. fleet farm also carries 150 watt oil pan heaters
>> similiar to the aviation stuff. use your imagination on
>> this............ a phone call to your hangar turns on your preheat
>> or a call turns it off. life would be perfect if a unit worked with
>> a cell phone!
>> bob noffs
>>
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cold weather starting |
If you guys really want some fun just try to start an old Bell 47-G below
50F... Then when you get it going you have to keep the rpm up because there
is no flywheel... once the engine is nicely warmed up then you have to
engage the rotors without flooding, not only the engine but the closest
three counties..
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
Good 'un, Pat! (sorry 'bout that, Steve) : )
Now to keep it educational, here is a shot of my enclosure heater.
The only part that gets shoved up the.....I mean inserted into the lower
cowl, is the metal and fiberglass tape, not the wood. I had just removed it
from the engine and it was hot, so I laid it on he wood. When I got there
today, the oil temp was 104 F, and the heads were 64 F. By the way, the
exposed electrical studs never get near anything metallic...I should
insulate them somehow, but haven't really looked into what I could
use...maybe more of the fiberglass tape. Or at least get pretty and put
terminals on those bare wires.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dead stick practice |
Maybe it's my superb engine-building talents, Michel. : ) that makes
the engine so free that it free-wheels. Either that or the freakin'
rings are worn out already! On the other hand, I've yet to point it
anywhere near straight down to try to restart the engine. Maybe I'll
try that one of these days....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 11, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
>> I had to point it up to actually get the prop to stop
>
> Hum, my prop always stops when I switch out the magnetos, Lynn.
> With the Rans I was trained on, and a Rotax 912, I needed a bit of
> nose-up but not with the Jabiru. Perhaps that's because I fly
> slower than you and ... do my dead stick only on long final,
> knowing that I have enough altitude to make the runway.
> On the other hand, I always land smoother when without engine. Not
> sure why. Could be that I am more concentrated ... white
> knuckles ... beads of sweat on my forehead :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as a PAX
Message 5
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| Subject: | electrical problem continued |
I investigated my electrical problem with my Kitfox1/2 further and found th
at the low gage wire that melted connects the battery to the master switch.
=C2-It melted when I installed a new battery. =C2-I noticed that there w
as a similiar wire on the negative side of the battery that has been cut.
=C2-My suspection is that there is a short in the system. =C2-This might
have been caused when I had to remove the panel when I installed new rubber
shocks. What is the purpose of ths wire? =C2-Can it be removed? =C2-Do
I need to connect to both sides of the battery? =C2-How can I locate the s
hort if there is one? =C2-Any help would be appreciated.
jerry novak
N299jk
Pulaski Wisconsin
novice electrician
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Dead stick practice |
Hi Lynn=2C Just curious=2C how did the plane fly/glide with the engine off
=2C as compared to a 1000 RPM or so descent. Thanks=2C Jim Chuk> From: ly
nnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Dead stick practice> Date: Fr
i=2C 12 Dec 2008 11:17:00 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfo
x-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>> > Maybe it's my
superb engine-building talents=2C Michel. : ) that makes > the engine so f
ree that it free-wheels. Either that or the freakin' > rings are worn out a
lready! On the other hand=2C I've yet to point it > anywhere near straight
down to try to restart the engine. Maybe I'll > try that one of these days.
...> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2
062=2C 595+ hrs> Sensenich 62x46> flying again after rebuild=2C and new Ele
ctroair direct-fire ignition > system=3B> also building a new pair of snow
skis> > > > > On Dec 11=2C 2008=2C at 5:35 PM=2C Michel Verheughe wrote:> >
>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]> >> I had to point it up to actu
ally get the prop to stop> >> > Hum=2C my prop always stops when I switch o
ut the magnetos=2C Lynn. > > With the Rans I was trained on=2C and a Rotax
912=2C I needed a bit of > > nose-up but not with the Jabiru. Perhaps that'
s because I fly > > slower than you and ... do my dead stick only on long f
inal=2C > > knowing that I have enough altitude to make the runway.> > On t
he other hand=2C I always land smoother when without engine. Not > > sure w
hy. Could be that I am more concentrated ... white > > knuckles ... beads o
f sweat on my forehead :-)> >> > Cheers=2C> > Michel Verheughe> > Norway> >
=====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Suspicious message? There=92s an alert for that.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broa
d2_122008
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Dead stick practice |
Hi Jim-
It flew really well...I wished I had noted the time it took to get it
down. I wasn't in any hurry to get down, so I just let it glide in a
large spiral that was pretty flat. Next time I'll spend some time
looking at numbers and jotting stuff down. I've got to go and re-
torque the prop now, and not sure if the weather will hold for
another shot at it, but if I do go up, I'll get some numbers.
Yesterday was just a spur of the moment thing, and I never thought
about recording some info.
My hunch is that it would glide further with engine off, as they say
an idling engine is a drag...no pun intended.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:
> Hi Lynn, Just curious, how did the plane fly/glide with the engine
> off, as compared to a 1000 RPM or so descent. Thanks, Jim Chuk
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Dead stick practice
> > Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:17:00 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > Maybe it's my superb engine-building talents, Michel. : ) that makes
> > the engine so free that it free-wheels. Either that or the freakin'
> > rings are worn out already! On the other hand, I've yet to point it
> > anywhere near straight down to try to restart the engine. Maybe I'll
> > try that one of these days....
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 11, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
> >
> > >> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> > >> I had to point it up to actually get the prop to stop
> > >
> > > Hum, my prop always stops when I switch out the magnetos, Lynn.
> > > With the Rans I was trained on, and a Rotax 912, I needed a bit of
> > > nose-up but not with the Jabiru. Perhaps that's because I fly
> > > slower than you and ... do my dead stick only on long final,
> > > knowing that I have enough altitude to make the runway.
> > > On the other hand, I always land smoother when without engine. Not
> > > sure why. Could be that I am more concentrated ... white
> > > knuckles ... beads of sweat on my forehead :-)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Michel Verheughe
> > > Norway
> > > Kitfox 3 - Ja=============
> >
> >
> >
>
> Suspicious message? Theres an alert for that. Get your Hotmail
> account now._-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado |
Lowell,
I agree with you. If you change a structure on your aircraft you are going to
have to really study what the effect are on other areas of the aircraft. Your
example of the landing gear shows this. I was just saying that with the right
analysis you can safely make certain modification to your aircraft. I also just
wanted to give the builder the benefit of the doubt that maybe there was something
more substantial behind his increase in gross weight. I personally wouldn't
do this. As for the liability, no matter what you do, and no matter how
perfect your aircraft was built. They can still come after you and blame it all
on you. It's not right. There is not much you can do.
Fly safe
Chris Budd
53RJ
Model IV Speedster
76hp 2180 VW, 230hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219088#219088
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
Hey Lynn,
I don't remember from previous posts, but I reckon you guys have plenty
of skills flying dead stick and know how to manage altitude and
airspeed. I'd just like to mention that getting a glider rating was one
of the best things I think I ever did as a pilot. It was a lot of fun
and improved my seat of the pants skill significantly. Further benefits
are it is pretty cheap for getting another rating and takes care of a
flight review requirement. Highly recommended!
Rex Hefferan
Colorado, Model 2, 582
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging |
On Fri, December 12, 2008 6:32 am, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> Thanks for the observation, Noel. I'm gonna take all these ideas,
> melt them in a big pot, and pour out something...don't know what, but
> it'll be spectacular.
> This will make the plywood lamination a bit trickier, but certainly
> doable. I'm ordering some components for vacuum bagging, so learning
> all these new skills will certainly delay the ribbon-cutting ceremony
> (on the new skis) a bit. : )
Lynn - sharing photos of all this sure would be worth the time. I'll be glad to
help
with the process. The plywood bending and the vacuum bagging are really interest
grabbers. I can make web pages and post them if you want help.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging |
Hi Paul-
I'm a big fan of shooting pics during the process, no matter what it
is, so I'll be shooting while working. I just got notice that my
vacuum bagging kit has shipped, and it only takes 3-4 hours to build,
so I should be pulling a vacuum....no smart remarks, please....in a
few days. I still need to think a bit more about the design of the
stuff that goes *into* the bag, but that's the fun part...oh, hell,
it's ALL fun!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:18 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Fri, December 12, 2008 6:32 am, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the observation, Noel. I'm gonna take all these ideas,
>> melt them in a big pot, and pour out something...don't know what, but
>> it'll be spectacular.
>> This will make the plywood lamination a bit trickier, but certainly
>> doable. I'm ordering some components for vacuum bagging, so learning
>> all these new skills will certainly delay the ribbon-cutting ceremony
>> (on the new skis) a bit. : )
>
> Lynn - sharing photos of all this sure would be worth the time.
> I'll be glad to help
> with the process. The plywood bending and the vacuum bagging are
> really interest
> grabbers. I can make web pages and post them if you want help.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
I'm pretty new to dead stick landings, Rex, having only made
two...yesterday, and the emergency one last fall. I've killed the
engine at altitude before, but always started it up for landing.
Would the glider rating also benefit Sport Pilots?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Rexinator wrote:
>
> Hey Lynn,
> I don't remember from previous posts, but I reckon you guys have
> plenty of skills flying dead stick and know how to manage altitude
> and airspeed. I'd just like to mention that getting a glider rating
> was one of the best things I think I ever did as a pilot. It was a
> lot of fun and improved my seat of the pants skill significantly.
> Further benefits are it is pretty cheap for getting another rating
> and takes care of a flight review requirement. Highly recommended!
>
> Rex Hefferan
> Colorado, Model 2, 582
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | cold weather starting |
lynn,
a little more research on the condensation business seems to point to
an engine that was run for only a short time and didnt get to operating
temps before it was shut down. this leaves water in the engine as a
product of combustion that didnt get a chance to be boiled off. now
comes the constant preheat that puts the moisture that was in the oil in
vapor form and then it condenses on the colder parts of the engine. i
dont know if all this is true but keeping a preheat on an engine that
was put away hot should not be a problem.
bob noffs
Message 14
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| Subject: | Dead stick practice |
Just my two cents for worth it is worth. Dead stick is good but do not
expect the same sink rate with an engine out, especially if you have a
freewheeling prop with a sprag clutch or similar. Your glide will be
significantly be reduced and a greatly increased sink rate will occur.
If the prop stops or you can stop the prop, then you will be in a better
performance envelope. Just the engine at idle helps more than you might
think. This is from personal experience not something I heard.
Rick
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: electrical problem continued |
[quote="jlno7(at)aim.com"]I investigated my electrical problem with my Kitfox1/2
further and found that the low gage wire that melted connects the battery to
the master switch. It melted when I installed a new battery. I noticed that there
was a similiar wire on the negative side of the battery that has been cut.
My suspection is that there is a short in the system. This might have been caused
when I had to remove the panel when I installed new rubber shocks. What
is the purpose of ths wire? Can it be removed? Do I need to connect to both sides
of the battery? How can I locate the short if there is one? Any help would
be appreciated.
jerry novak
N299jk
> [b]
Jerry, here is a link to download the Rotax two cycle engine instillation manual.
The wireing diagrams are in section 18. The diagram that might help you
the most is on page 18-7.
http://www.rotax-owner.com/manuals/d00287.pdf
It should be a simple wireing set up but I have seeninstallationsations that the
builder has somehow made incredibly complex.
Disreguard the misspellings, the spell checker is trying to make this message incredibly
complex. The more I try to fix it the worse it gets.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219110#219110
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
I'm sure it would benefit anyone. When I was learning to fly I would
read all kinds of stuff and I remember reading about top WW2 European
fighter pilots had started out in gliders as civilians. It seemed to be
a common thing that they claimed as a basis to help them achieve their
skills. I've also read accounts of accomplished pilots who improved
their skills overall from learning related flying techniques. For
instance our own Kurt Schrader who for those who don't know was a ex
Marine jet fighter pilot and retired as a 757 pilot after a 2nd career
as a professional pilot reported on this list that his demonstrated
skills handling a certain emergency simulation noticeably improved from
flying his Kitfox tail dragger. Tail Dragger time was the only
experience change he had between proficiency checks.
I can say from my own experience that I felt more in control when I
once had a engine out on long final and found myself suddenly flying a
gliding Cessna. I landed without further incident on the runway. I
probably would have made the runway anyway, but I know my glider rating
made it much simpler to do.
Rex
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I'm pretty new to dead stick landings, Rex, having only made
> two...yesterday, and the emergency one last fall. I've killed the
> engine at altitude before, but always started it up for landing. Would
> the glider rating also benefit Sport Pilots?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Dec 12, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Rexinator wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey Lynn,
>> I don't remember from previous posts, but I reckon you guys have
>> plenty of skills flying dead stick and know how to manage altitude
>> and airspeed. I'd just like to mention that getting a glider rating
>> was one of the best things I think I ever did as a pilot. It was a
>> lot of fun and improved my seat of the pants skill significantly.
>> Further benefits are it is pretty cheap for getting another rating
>> and takes care of a flight review requirement. Highly recommended!
>>
>> Rex Hefferan
>> Colorado, Model 2, 582
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
That's an important point that's good to know, but it's also good to
have experienced it under controlled circumstances. So I say get with an
instructor and learn from you own experience in your own Kitfox. And
like Lynn plans to do, please report what you find with real numbers
before and after so the rest of us might get a feel for what differences
to expect in case we don't get around to doing in our own aircraft. Of
course everyone must note the vital importance of the differences each
homebuilt aircraft configuration might have even if they are the same
model and engine.
Rex
Rick wrote:
>
>
> Just my two cents for worth it is worth. Dead stick is good but do not
> expect the same sink rate with an engine out, especially if you have a
> freewheeling prop with a sprag clutch or similar. Your glide will be
> significantly be reduced and a greatly increased sink rate will occur.
> If the prop stops or you can stop the prop, then you will be in a better
> performance envelope. Just the engine at idle helps more than you might
> think. This is from personal experience not something I heard.
>
>
> Rick
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Dead stick practice |
Dead sticks? I have done many... on purpose ... so far )
my strip is only 750 feet and it greatly enhances your confidence.
Yes a windmilling prop creates conciderable more drag.. Something to
ponder: Best L/D is around 1.6 vso and min sink around 1.2 vso. and
for best distance go faster than vso in a headwind and less than vso
with a tailwind. remember stall speed is weight related and whatever
speeds you choose leave enough speed for flair. Our light planes
decelerate quickly.... start practicing at a long enough runway to
forgive ur mistakes as you learn your plane....it takes time and enjoy
lastly if you shut down do so with the mindset it won't start. First
because it might not and its very distracting trying to crank on short
final.
Dave ( just one KFer opinoin!)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: cold weather starting |
And that is what I'm doing, Bob, flying it and then putting it away,
then placing the heater. Whenever I get to the hangar, the entire
engine is warm...as a matter of fact, when I got there today, inside
the hangar, EIS readings were: Oil temp=117; Head temp=71;
Ambient=28, all degrees fahrenheit.
My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
photography class instead)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:18 PM, bob noffs wrote:
> lynn,
> a little more research on the condensation business seems to point
> to an engine that was run for only a short time and didnt get to
> operating temps before it was shut down. this leaves water in the
> engine as a product of combustion that didnt get a chance to be
> boiled off. now comes the constant preheat that puts the moisture
> that was in the oil in vapor form and then it condenses on the
> colder parts of the engine. i dont know if all this is true but
> keeping a preheat on an engine that was put away hot should not be
> a problem.
> bob noffs
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 20
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| Subject: | Dead stick practice |
I am glad gliders were brought up here. I contend that part of your test
phase should have been to determine best speed for best glide ratio and best
speed for lowest sink rate with the prop stopped. I did.
Getting a rating for glider used to be much easier that a power rating. I
think the minimum age was 14 versus 16 for power rating. I am not sure that
those are still the right age minimums. It is much easier when you KNOW you
are going to land. And the experience is good for your confidence.
I haven't actually landed dead stick with a passenger, but I do enjoy
shutting down the engine and showing them that the plane doesn't fall from
the sky. Most really enjoy the quiet once they realize that very little has
changed except the noise level. I usually get 8 - 10 mins glide time before
I hit the start button. The engine really starts quick with the wind
helping. And I always have a "just in case" field pre-selected when I kill
the mags.
Before you do this, consider any shock cooling issues you may have with your
engine. The air is still going through the cooling paths albeit slower and
your engine may be hot from climbing hard.
Randy
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
> My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
> pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
> by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
> it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
> changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
> must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
> photography class instead)
Lynn, if I remember my primary fire fighter training from 41 years ago there's
three types of heat transfer:
radiation = through still air to an object
convection = heated air moving to another object
conduction = through a solid or liquid
There's probably some of all three going on under your cowl. The convection mostly
directly above the heater. do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219142#219142
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Thanks, Tom...I had forgotten all about conduction...DUH! So it
radiates out from the heater, heating the air which "convects" to the
oil pan surfaces, then by conduction, continues to heat the whole
engine. Cool.....oops!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 12, 2008, at 7:25 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
>
>> My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
>> pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
>> by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
>> it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
>> changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
>> must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
>> photography class instead)
>
>
> Lynn, if I remember my primary fire fighter training from 41 years
> ago there's three types of heat transfer:
> radiation = through still air to an object
> convection = heated air moving to another object
> conduction = through a solid or liquid
>
> There's probably some of all three going on under your cowl. The
> convection mostly directly above the heater. do not archive
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219142#219142
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
For those Canucks out there or others who may remember the "Gimli Glider" occurrence.
An Air Canada 767 was en-route from Ottawa to Edmonton when it ran out
of fuel over Manitoba in ??? 1983??? Without going into details, the pilot
landed the aircraft on an abandoned airstrip at Gimli Manitoba dead stick.
As it turns out, the pilot did some things with the aircraft (cross control forward
slips and such) that Boeing said could not be done.
He had extensive experience as a glider pilot. I suspect there is no greater testimonial
to spending some time on gliders than this....
Cheers'
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219144#219144
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice -Gimli Glider |
Excellent point, I wish I had remembered it. Here's a good account of
that incident:
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=744
Rex
Ken Potter wrote:
>
> For those Canucks out there or others who may remember the "Gimli Glider" occurrence.
An Air Canada 767 was en-route from Ottawa to Edmonton when it ran out
of fuel over Manitoba in ??? 1983??? Without going into details, the pilot
landed the aircraft on an abandoned airstrip at Gimli Manitoba dead stick.
As it turns out, the pilot did some things with the aircraft (cross control
forward slips and such) that Boeing said could not be done.
> He had extensive experience as a glider pilot. I suspect there is no greater
testimonial to spending some time on gliders than this....
> Cheers'
> Ken
>
> --------
> Ken Potter
> Model II, No. 483
> Rotax 582, C-Box,
> 98% Complete
> C-FJKP (marks reserved)
> Lanark, Ontario
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
I found and ordered a copy of "Bent Props and Blow Pots" from
Amazon.com today...there are plenty of like new and used books listed
for less than $20, in hardback and soft, so yes, they're out there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Patrick Best wrote:
> <Patrick.Best@telus.com>
>
> I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-
> pilot pioneers!
>
> For those of you who don't know what that is....
>
> When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in
> northern Canada, the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to
> drain the oil from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring
> it indoors over night. The next morning, in temperatures as low as
> -60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud the
> engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the
> buckets for a couple of hours. Then it would be poured back into
> the engine for the flight.
>
>
> I read it in this FASCINATING book. I would completely recommend
> it. It's about 1930's era Junkers with skis. Crashes and flying
> without reliable maps. Good pictures too.
>
> The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies
> around still.
>
> http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: plywood lamination and vacuum bagging |
Hey Paul, I tried to reply to your personal email to me regarding
pictures of vacuum bagging, but it bounced.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
Anyone interested, I'm flying 150 miles south tomorrow morning to meet with
a bunch of other "southern aviators". I wonder what they're all doing to
heat there engines... I confess, I'm just stirring the pot... Steve Bennett
10
pm. 38F...
In a message dated 12/12/2008 9:32:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lynnmatt@jps.net writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
I found and ordered a copy of "Bent Props and Blow Pots" from
Amazon.com today...there are plenty of like new and used books listed
for less than $20, in hardback and soft, so yes, they're out there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Patrick Best wrote:
> <Patrick.Best@telus.com>
>
> I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-
> pilot pioneers!
>
> For those of you who don't know what that is....
>
> When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in
> northern Canada, the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to
> drain the oil from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring
> it indoors over night. The next morning, in temperatures as low as
> -60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud the
> engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the
> buckets for a couple of hours. Then it would be poured back into
> the engine for the flight.
>
>
> I read it in this FASCINATING book. I would completely recommend
> it. It's about 1930's era Junkers with skis. Crashes and flying
> without reliable maps. Good pictures too.
>
> The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies
> around still.
>
> http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots
>
>
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: electrical problem continued |
Tom,
I am replying because I have not seen anyone else do so. If I am repeating
words of another, I am sorry. It is customary to control the master contact
relay on aircraft by switching the ground wire that activates the relay coil
while the positive voltage is always supplied. The relay is designed or
mounted so that ground is not always supplied, but only via the switched
small size ground wire. A low gauge wire is used because it does not carry
the working load which is connected by the relay which is activated by the
small gauge control wire. This small wire only carries a small current
which is all the relay coil requires to close the contacts. The large wires
connected to the large relay posts carry the working current when the relay
contacts are closed via the small wire and the relay coil. Usually the
positive voltage to operate the control coil is supplied by a very short
small wire from the always hot wire large wire and on to the other small
connection. That always hot large wire can be determined because it then
connects to the positive post of the battery.
This means that the wire running to the switch is not always hot. This is
thought to be safer. You melted the wire because you somehow connected the
positive to the negative wire directly with no load or resistance between
them. That is a short circuit and is always exciting. Be glad it was a
small wire and gave up easily. A heavier wire would have likely done real
damage! You can use a simple voltmeter purchased from Radio Shack or Walmart
to tell you what is positive and which must not be connected directly to a
negative or grounded point. If you have any further questions, feel free to
write me off line and I will help you further. I am, as we write, rewiring
my aircraft as I switch my engine from a NSI Subaru to a 3300 Jabiru.
By the way, the starter relay is not usually switched via supplying the
ground. In the case of the starter relay, the key switch or push to start
button supplies the positive and the ground to that relay is supplied by the
mounting which in my case is via the firewall which is grounded. The safety
angle here is that that control wire is not always hot, but is itself
controlled by the main battery contactor or relay and so it is only hot when
the master switch is on.
By the way, yesterday my son made his first flight in his newly completed
RV8. Today he made his second flight and was unable to resist doing a roll
both left and right. Everything is great except he has a big radio problem
which he needs to solve. I think it is likely to be the new radio itself.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: electrical problem continued
>
>
> [quote="jlno7(at)aim.com"]I investigated my electrical problem with my
> Kitfox1/2 further and found that the low gage wire that melted connects
> the battery to the master switch. It melted when I installed a new
> battery. I noticed that there was a similiar wire on the negative
> side of the battery that has been cut. My suspection is that there is
> a short in the system. This might have been caused when I had to
> remove the panel when I installed new rubber shocks. What is the
> purpose of ths wire? Can it be removed? Do I need to connect to
> both sides of the battery? How can I locate the short if there is
> one? Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
> jerry novak
> N299jk
>
>
> > [b]
>
>
> Jerry, here is a link to download the Rotax two cycle engine
> instillation manual. The wireing diagrams are in section 18. The
> diagram that might help you the most is on page 18-7.
> http://www.rotax-owner.com/manuals/d00287.pdf
> It should be a simple wireing set up but I have seeninstallationsations
> that the builder has somehow made incredibly complex.
>
> Disreguard the misspellings, the spell checker is trying to make this
> message incredibly complex. The more I try to fix it the worse it
> gets.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219110#219110
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: electrical problem continued |
Tom,
I just reread your original email and I want to suggest that the short wire
you thought was cut probably is the one I told you should be connected to
the always hot large wire that came from the battery. The one that burned
up on you should lead to ground via the master switch.
Jim Crowder
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
> Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 1:49 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: electrical problem continued
>
>
> [quote="jlno7(at)aim.com"]I investigated my electrical problem with my
> Kitfox1/2 further and found that the low gage wire that melted connects
> the battery to the master switch. It melted when I installed a new
> battery. I noticed that there was a similiar wire on the negative
> side of the battery that has been cut. My suspection is that there is
> a short in the system. This might have been caused when I had to
> remove the panel when I installed new rubber shocks. What is the
> purpose of ths wire? Can it be removed? Do I need to connect to
> both sides of the battery? How can I locate the short if there is
> one? Any help would be appreciated.
>
>
> jerry novak
> N299jk
>
>
> > [b]
>
>
> Jerry, here is a link to download the Rotax two cycle engine
> instillation manual. The wireing diagrams are in section 18. The
> diagram that might help you the most is on page 18-7.
> http://www.rotax-owner.com/manuals/d00287.pdf
> It should be a simple wireing set up but I have seeninstallationsations
> that the builder has somehow made incredibly complex.
>
> Disreguard the misspellings, the spell checker is trying to make this
> message incredibly complex. The more I try to fix it the worse it
> gets.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219110#219110
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Miss address reply |
Tom and Jerry,
I see I didn't read far enough when I replied. I see now that Tom was
offering help and that it was Jerry that had the problem. Sorry I was so
dense.
Jim Crowder
S5/3300 Jabiru (Engine swap in process)
North Front Range of Colorado
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