Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (Michel Verheughe)
2. 03:46 AM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Lynn Matteson)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Deadstick Landing OT (Noel Loveys)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Randy Daughenbaugh)
5. 06:30 AM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (LarryM)
6. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Randy Daughenbaugh)
7. 12:55 PM - Re: 582 thermostat (Ed Gray)
8. 01:53 PM - Re: International aircraft relocation (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
9. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: International aircraft relocation (Lynn Matteson)
10. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Rick)
11. 05:17 PM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (crazyivan)
12. 05:49 PM - Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (JetPilot)
13. 06:31 PM - Re: Dead stick practice (JetPilot)
14. 06:39 PM - Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit (CDE2fly@aol.com)
15. 07:18 PM - Re: Windshield fit and now - coolant overheat (Weiss Richard)
16. 07:21 PM - Re: Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit (Dan Billingsley)
17. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: International aircraft relocation (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
18. 08:31 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/08/08 (Larry Boone)
19. 08:48 PM - Re: Cold weather starting (Larry Boone)
20. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Michael Gibbs)
21. 09:38 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Michael Gibbs)
22. 09:38 PM - Re: Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit (Michael Gibbs)
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
> From: wingnut [wingnut@spamarrest.com]
> If you minimum safe approach speed is lower then your angle of descent is higher
> for the same sink rate right?
I don't know, Luis. Does it? ... any expert in the audience? :-)
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Certainly not me, Michel, but my flaps slow me down, and I use them
for landing, but only halfway if the wind is a strong x-wind. Then I
want more aileron control.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 17, 2008, at 3:24 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: wingnut [wingnut@spamarrest.com]
>> If you minimum safe approach speed is lower then your angle of
>> descent is higher
>> for the same sink rate right?
>
> I don't know, Luis. Does it? ... any expert in the audience? :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
>
> <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Deadstick Landing OT |
My understanding is after landing the plane safely the pilots were accused
of not handling the leak problem correctly thus making the incident a pilot
induced problem. If I remember correctly they asked for assistance after
checking the on board manuals. That being the case the problem rested with
the designers, the maintainers, the company directors as well as the flight
crew. Lots of blame to go around.
What the reviewers seemed to forget is these guys actually got the plane on
the ground without one fatality! The other thing is that now this problem
has been found it is highly unlikely that this kind of accident/incident
will reoccur on any western airline.
In the case of the Gimli Glider, that incident brought to life the fact that
when a country starts swapping legal measurements someone has to stand back
and develop standards for the airline industry. They asked for Pounds of
fuel and got litres. I'm amazed the on board computers didn't flag the
error. Now all AMEs in Canada are expressly instructed to pay attention to
any units that may encounter whether they be inch Pounds, foot pounds,
Newton Meters or tons.
Do not archive
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:24 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Deadstick Landing
Noel,
Enjoying this thread.
The landing you referred to was a Canadian Air Transat Airbus-330 back in
01. They ran out of fuel due to a fuel leak and messed up by not following
the proper procedures. However, they did a great job of flying the airliner
to safety. I know they don't normally practice this in airline training,
however at my airline we did have the opportunity to experience it and
attempt a landing in the sim. The Canadair Regional jet flies nicely on NO
engines, but it does have a massive sink rate and impressive forward speed
requirement, but I digress. Here's a link to one of the many reports on the
Air Transat incident.
http://www.iasa.com.au/folders/Safety_Issues/others/azoresdeadstick.html
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
BTW, it was 80 degrees today and the it's supposed to be that way the rest
of the week. Cold Weather starts here are for temps in the 50's:-) Come
visit!
=
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Larry,
What are you flying?
Randy - Series 5/7
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 3:52 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
I'm an extreme slipper with full flaperons deployed, door open (both) or
closed - no problems.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219690#219690
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Randy,
i have a MK1V Avid Stol wing with a 582.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219770#219770
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Thanks Larry,
I just suspect that the Series 5/6/7 wing behaves differently than the
higher lift wing.
At full flaps on my 5, it takes a lot of forces to push the stick over to
slip and there is a lot of buffeting. This isn't there at the half flaps
point. I did put anther detent in at the 1/4 flap point when I built my
plane. I do use that often. It adds some lift but very little drag.
Slips are fun and very useful.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
Randy,
i have a MK1V Avid Stol wing with a 582.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219770#219770
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| Subject: | RE: 582 thermostat |
Thanks, Guy Buchanan, for the tip. My 582-90 did not come with a
thermostat, and I had not planned on adding one since in Dallas I will not
fly in really cold weather, and will thus avoid the seizure issue you
described. Is there a compelling reason to add a thermostat to the system
for warm weather flying. Also, I have a B box so no clutch is available to
me. What are the pros and cons of a clutch--worth upgrading to a C box?
Do not archive.
Ed Gray, Dallas, K2, 582 building
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List
Digest Server
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 12/16/08
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter
08-12-16&Archive=Kitfox
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter
2008-12-16&Archive=Kitfox
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Tue 12/16/08: 25
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Transponder Noise with Rotax 582 (Guy
Buchanan)
2. 12:19 AM - Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Guy
Buchanan)
3. 04:02 AM - Re: Soaring (was: Dead stick practice) (815TL)
4. 04:40 AM - 582 CHT temps? (815TL)
5. 05:09 AM - Slipping with Flaps (Southern Skies)
6. 06:02 AM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (Michel Verheughe)
7. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Marco Menezes)
8. 06:43 AM - Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Roger Lee)
9. 06:57 AM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (Randy Daughenbaugh)
10. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Marco Menezes)
11. 08:43 AM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Lynn Matteson)
12. 08:51 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Guy Buchanan)
13. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Rick)
14. 10:44 AM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (Michel Verheughe)
15. 11:37 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Marco Menezes)
16. 01:37 PM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (Tom Beirne)
17. 02:12 PM - Re: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582 (mikeperkins)
18. 02:22 PM - Re: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582 (mikeperkins)
19. 02:50 PM - Re: Dead stick practice -Gimli Glider OT (Ken Potter)
20. 02:52 PM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (LarryM)
21. 02:57 PM - Re: 582 CHT temps? (LarryM)
22. 05:08 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (Rick)
23. 07:53 PM - Re: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582 (Noel Loveys)
24. 09:08 PM - Re: Slipping with Flaps (wingnut)
25. 10:15 PM - Re: Kitfox dead stick practice (akflyer)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:19:50 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Kitfox-List: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582
At 05:00 AM 12/15/2008, you wrote:
>Does anyone have any ideas what Ive done wrong.
Look for ground loops. If you have grounded the
transponder well away from the other comm
equipment it may have happened. These make excellent antennas.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 12:19:50 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox dead stick practice
At 11:12 AM 12/15/2008, you wrote:
>My
>question re engine cooling (582); do you shock cool the engine more with a
>long glide at idle (folks say the 582 likes a 2000 rpm idle) or by turning
>the engine off and stopping the prop?
Can't shock cool a 582 either way because it's water cooled. What you
do have to watch out for is getting a cold seizure. What you don't
want to do is dead stick engine off to the runway, decide you're not
going to make it, start the engine and immediately give it full
throttle. If the pistons are still warm and the radiator cold you may
seize just as soon as the thermostat opens. (Don't know what happens
if you're not running a thermostat.)
>Are 582s typically easy to air start
>with electric starter?
Extremely.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 04:02:20 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Soaring (was: Dead stick practice)
From: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
So it sounds like several have done it, with some success. I will have to
give
it a go, after I get a few hours under my belt.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219569#219569
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 04:40:02 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 CHT temps?
From: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Hey guys,
Finally got ahold of my instructor, and we are going to start flying
after
the first of the year. He came up last night and looked over the plane,
talked
a while and we started it up.
We let the engine warm up for a couple of minutes till the watter temp was
about
130* or so, then ran it up to 5500RPM and let it run for a couple of
minutes,
and leaned it out a little as we talked about a few things. I brought it
back
down to about 2500 RPM and looked over all the gauages.
The EGT was fine, both were around 1050-1100, the one seems to be about 50*
cooler
than the other. The one CHT however was a little high. Now the green and
red markings are just stickers that were put on the gleass of the gague, so
it
is not pefect depending on your vewing angle, but it looked to be in the
red
zone. I don't remember the reading exaclty, but I think it was close to
300*,
but not much over. The other CHT, seemed to be about 30-50* lower.
So, I have read one article that states that the CHT on a 2 stroke is
basically
useless, the real gague to watch is the EGT. Is this the case, or is there
cause
to be concenrned with a slightly high CHT? Any reaosn why one would be up
into the red, and the other OK? I know the front gets more air, but 30-50*
seems a bit much.
Andrew
Kitfox II, 815TL, Rotax 582-C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219572#219572
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 05:09:56 AM PST US
From: Southern Skies <chris@southernskies.net>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Slipping with Flaps
Hello Listers,
I have a simple question:
Is it permissible to do a (hefty) forward slip with full flaps on a model 5
?
Why do I ask? Short field, coming in over some tall trees, trying to get
down
quick. I have good roll control with flaps, just wondering about potential
negative
effects.
And another question:
Due to the nose pitching down so much with flaps I have to bump the electric
stabilizer
trim a good bit, otherwise lots of backpressure. Now if I had to go around
it would be a bit busy to adjust flaps and trim quickly while adding power,
taking carb heat off and looking at trim position indicator all at the same
time. Leave the flaps alone until at a reasonable altitude, then trim?
Thanks for the input, its always helpful.
Chris Bowles
KF 5
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 06:02:34 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Slipping with Flaps
> From: Southern Skies [chris@southernskies.net]
> Why do I ask? Short field, coming in over some tall trees, trying to get
down
quick.
I am certainly not an expert, Chris but ... why do you use the flaps at all?
On
my model 3, they only add a bit of lift but no drag as it is necessary to
prevent
picking up speed as you put the nose down after the tall trees.
One of the funniest thing I have done with my plane is the time we had a
navigation
contest somewhere in the mountains. To win, one had to find five objects
at five locations but also land at the time we thought we would.
Since the grass airfield was at the bottom of a deep valley, as I fly toward
it,
I realized that I was a bit after schedule and I had to make it as soon as
possible
to final. Because it is legal to cross the runway centerline before turning
downwind, I went right for it. But then, I had to descent perhaps a couple
of thousand feet from the top of the mountain to the deep valley. So, I did
it by side slipping, one way, then the other, only a hundred feet over the
tree
tops on the slope. It was exactly the feeling of Alpin skiing! Shuuuuus!
Shuuuuuus!
Shuuuuuuus! ...
Anyway, I think that you can control pretty well any speed by only
sideslipping.
As you say, the pitch-down effect of flaps is ... unpleasant, to say the
least.
Cheers,
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre>
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 06:22:41 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Lenny,
-
How does your airplane fly-with the prop and engine disengaged? What's th
e sink rate at best glide speed? That's what-this inquiring mind wants to
know.
-
At idle (2500 rpm, 50-55 indicated)-I lose 200-300 ft/min. That's gotta c
hange considerably for the worse with the prop disengaged. Because of my in
tractably high idle speed, dead stick practice means shut down and re-start
..
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: akflyer <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
<akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
if you pull the power off, and the nose up the prop will disengage and the
engine goes back to a 1600 rpm idle. At that point for all practical purpo
ses,
you are dead stick as the prop and engine are no longer a functioning team.
..
Don't worry you wont be the first to do it, I do it all the time.
If you come back in with power it will re-engage without all the nasty
(theoretic) side effects that were brought up in the other thread. At some
point, one must stop thinking about possibilities (time to get a dig in at
inquiring engineering minds LOL) and go for it, 99% of the time the nightma
res
you dream up don't really happen, if you are a lucky one percent'er,
then you get to enjoy the dead stick skills you have not practiced, so it r
eally
does become an emergency instead of a semi routine senario.
Weather permitting, I will take the bird out tomorrow and video the nice sm
ooth
cold weather start, an in air disengagement and subsequent landing as well
as an
in air re-engagement of the prop without the engine being ripped from the m
ounts
or gear box departing the plane.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219558#219558
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 06:43:04 AM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
From: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Flying dead stick is really no different than if the engine/prop are running
at
idle. Yes there is a little difference of course, but it shouldn't be an
issue
for anyone that can fly his Kitfox on any other day.
The engines with the prop clutch, free wheeling prop at idle, has much more
drag
than a prop that stops and stays still. Their glide ratio is reduced
compared
to a normal none moving prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219583#219583
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 06:57:29 AM PST US
From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Slipping with Flaps
.Chris,
With about 80-90' trees on each end of my runway, I face a similar problem.
I used to head for the tops of the trees with a shallower glide slope and
then at the tree tops slip down to the runway, straighten out and land.
I now do it quite differently, and feel it is better way to go.
Essentially, I get on the steeper glide slope immediately on final with a
medium slip. I hold this all the way to the runway, straighten out and
land. I can steepen the glide slope by going to a more extreme slip or
flatten out the glide slope by reducing the slip.
I feel that this is safer since I can easily avoid the tree tops if I get
hit by an increase in head wind by just reducing my slip.
Oh, back to title, slipping works great with mid position flaps. I do slip
with full flaps, but the fox just doesn't seem as happy in that
configuration.
Randy
Kitfox 5/7, 912S 776 lbs
Warp Drive taper tip
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Southern Skies
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 6:09 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Slipping with Flaps
Hello Listers,
I have a simple question:
Is it permissible to do a (hefty) forward slip with full flaps on a model 5
?
Why do I ask? Short field, coming in over some tall trees, trying to get
down quick. I have good roll control with flaps, just wondering about
potential negative effects.
And another question:
Due to the nose pitching down so much with flaps I have to bump the electric
stabilizer trim a good bit, otherwise lots of backpressure. Now if I had to
go around it would be a bit busy to adjust flaps and trim quickly while
adding power, taking carb heat off and looking at trim position indicator
all at the same time. Leave the flaps alone until at a reasonable altitude,
then trim?
Thanks for the input, its always helpful.
Chris Bowles
KF 5
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 07:17:04 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Roger,
-
It's clear there will be a drop-off (literally) in glide performance from a
free-wheeling prop that's disengaged from any substantial mechanical resis
tance. Question is, how much?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Flying dead stick is really no different than if the engine/prop are runnin
g at
idle. Yes there is a little difference of course, but it shouldn't be an
issue for anyone that can fly his Kitfox on any other day.
The engines with the prop clutch, free wheeling prop at idle, has much more
drag than a prop that stops and stays still. Their glide ratio is reduced
compared to a normal none moving prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219583#219583
=0A=0A=0A
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 08:43:39 AM PST US
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: RE: Slipping with Flaps
But remember Michel, he's got a Model 5..isn't that a quite different
animal than your 3?....different wing, adjustable horizontal stab, etc?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 16, 2008, at 9:01 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:
>> From: Southern Skies [chris@southernskies.net]
>> Why do I ask? Short field, coming in over some tall trees, trying
>> to get down quick.
>
> I am certainly not an expert, Chris but ... why do you use the
> flaps at all? On my model 3, they only add a bit of lift but no
> drag as it is necessary to prevent picking up speed as you put the
> nose down after the tall trees.
>
> Cheers,
> Michel Verheughe
> Norway
> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>
> forums.matronics.com</a>
> </b></font></pre>
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 08:51:34 AM PST US
From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
At 06:22 AM 12/16/2008, you wrote:
>How does your airplane fly with the prop and engine disengaged?
>What's the sink rate at best glide speed? That's what this inquiring
>mind wants to know.
I got 450 fpm sink at 50 MIAS at 1180# in my IV with the prop
disengaged and no flaps. Interestingly I got the same value, but 5
MIAS slower for full flaps. At a lighter weight I got 400 fpm sink
just above stall.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 09:11:53 AM PST US
From: "Rick" <wingsdown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
I would add 300-500 FPM sink rate. If you do not think that is
significant add it to a normal 500 at acceptable glide and it gets your
attention right away. Especially if that engine does not start. I can
spell pucker.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Menezes
Sent: 2008-12-16 07:17
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Roger,
It's clear there will be a drop-off (literally) in glide performance
from a free-wheeling prop that's disengaged from any substantial
mechanical resistance. Question is, how much?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Flying dead stick is really no different than if the engine/prop are
running at
idle. Yes there is a little difference of course, but it shouldn't be an
issue for anyone that can fly his Kitfox on any other day.
The engines with the prop clutch, free wheeling prop at idle, has much
more
drag than a prop that stops and stays still. Their glide ratio is
reduced
compared to a normal none moving prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219583#219583
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________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 10:44:11 AM PST US
From: Michel Verheughe <michel@online.no>
Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Slipping with Flaps
> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt@jps.net]
> But remember Michel, he's got a Model 5..isn't that a quite different
> animal than your 3?....different wing, adjustable horizontal stab, etc?
... what? Different wings? I thought that we, angels, all had the same type
of
wings! By the way, do you think that when a bird dies, he gets ... wings? Or
perhaps
... hands? Sorry, it's Chrstimas soon ... too much eggnog. You see, since
I lost my driving license, there are no more reasons for me to stay sober!
... Cheers!
Michel Verheughe
Norway
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 ... flying as PAX, even when sober
Do not archive
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre>
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 11:37:36 AM PST US
From: Marco Menezes <msm_9949@yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Oh, that's plenty significant alright.-Explains my reticence to trailblaz
e. My engine routinely starts very easily but-then there's always Murphy'
s law. One question, Rick: Do you write from personal experience or is-th
e additional 300-500 f/m a guess?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
I would add 300-500 FPM sink rate. If you do not think that is significant
add it to a normal 500 at acceptable glide and it gets your attention right
away.- Especially if that engine does not start. I can spell pucker.
-
-
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 2008-12-16 07:17
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Roger,
-
It's clear there will be a drop-off (literally) in glide performance from a
free-wheeling prop that's disengaged from any substantial mechanical resis
tance. Question is, how much?
-
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Flying dead stick is really no different than if the engine/prop are runnin
g at
idle. Yes there is a little difference of course, but it shouldn't be an
issue for anyone that can fly his Kitfox on any other day.
The engines with the prop clutch, free wheeling prop at idle, has much more
drag than a prop that stops and stays still. Their glide ratio is reduced
compared to a normal none moving prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219583#219583
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________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 01:37:32 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
From: "Tom Beirne" <thomasbeirne@eircom.net>
Michel wrote:
> You see, since I lost my driving license, there are no more reasons for me
to
stay sober! ... Cheers!
>
I'm glad to see that your glass is always half full (so to speak) these days
:D
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219663#219663
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 02:12:47 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582
From: "mikeperkins" <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
Jeff is right in suggesting that you check the ground connection; ground
connections
are often the source of radio noise.
A troublshooting procedure is this:
You need to know if the transponder is being disturbed by the RF input
(antenna
input) or by the power source. A quick way to check this is to remove the
antenna
connector right at the transponder and see if the the funny operation goes
away. If it still acts funny, power the transponder from a separate 12 v
battery
(not suggesting this as a solution, just a test).
The old transponders like the KX76 don't have much power filtering. I'd be
surprised
if the transponder's problem here was something other than noisy power.
It's hard to fool a transponder to think it's receiving radar signals, but
it's
easy to make them misbehave with noisy power. The above tests will tell you.
Mike Perkins
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219677#219677
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 02:22:49 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582
From: "mikeperkins" <michael.perkins@rauland.com>
Post script to my troubleshooting procedure - - If you see transponder
replies
with the antenna disconnected, shut the transponder down pretty quickly -
KX76s
don't like transmitting for very long without an antenna connected, but a
few
seconds won't hurt.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219680#219680
________________________________ Message 19
____________________________________
Time: 02:50:57 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Dead stick practice -Gimli Glider OT
From: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>
Yes, that was an Air Transat plane. Similar to the Gimli Glider the plane
ran
out of fuel (due to a maintence error) and made it to the Azores. I work
for
the Transportation Safety Board of Canada as an investigator; our agency
assisted
the Porteguese with their investigation. Not withstanding the maintenance
foul-up by the airline, a spectacular bit of flying!!!
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219689#219689
________________________________ Message 20
____________________________________
Time: 02:52:36 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
From: "LarryM" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
I'm an extreme slipper with full flaperons deployed, door open (both) or
closed
- no problems.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219690#219690
________________________________ Message 21
____________________________________
Time: 02:57:48 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 CHT temps?
From: "LarryM" <CrownLJ@verizon.net>
I would not worry about the CHT on a water cooled engine. The water temp
prob
is located right at the top of the cylinder head. That and EGT are the
parameters
to watch. EGT is the most immediate and caused instant damage, while the
water temp is slower to react and is more of an "overall" reading. Do not
be
surprised to see water temps near 200F, depending what the OAT is and what
your
power is set at, but cruise should be less than 175F.
The difference in CHT readings could be as simple and most likely the
washer/probe.
Cover up or take out the CHT gauge, but respect the water temps.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219691#219691
________________________________ Message 22
____________________________________
Time: 05:08:13 PM PST US
From: "Rick" <wingsdown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
That was a real world event. I could easily pull power to idle, set my
airspeed by AOA and come down 500 too 600. But with the prop free
wheeling, what a shock. I guess if I had that number in mind when I was
looking for the emergency landing spot it would not have been such an
attitude adjustment. I made it to the area I had in mind just not where
I had hoped to be. If I still had a prop that could free wheel I would
make some type of a device to mechanically stop it in an emergency
decent. Or a smart person could make some type of auto prop pitch
control that would put the prop flat. I kind of like the mechanical idea
myself since I think I could do that. It might not always be an issue
given the area you have to work with.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Menezes
Sent: 2008-12-16 11:37
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Oh, that's plenty significant alright. Explains my reticence to
trailblaze. My engine routinely starts very easily but then there's
always Murphy's law. One question, Rick: Do you write from personal
experience or is the additional 300-500 f/m a guess?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net> wrote:
From: Rick <wingsdown@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
I would add 300-500 FPM sink rate. If you do not think that is
significant add it to a normal 500 at acceptable glide and it gets your
attention right away. Especially if that engine does not start. I can
spell pucker.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Menezes
Sent: 2008-12-16 07:17
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
Roger,
It's clear there will be a drop-off (literally) in glide performance
from a free-wheeling prop that's disengaged from any substantial
mechanical resistance. Question is, how much?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Roger Lee <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
<ssadiver1@yahoo.com>
Flying dead stick is really no different than if the engine/prop are
running at
idle. Yes there is a little difference of course, but it shouldn't be an
issue for anyone that can fly his Kitfox on any other day.
The engines with the prop clutch, free wheeling prop at idle, has much
more
drag than a prop that stops and stays still. Their glide ratio is
reduced
compared to a normal none moving prop.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219583#219583
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________________________________ Message 23
____________________________________
Time: 07:53:24 PM PST US
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582
Try powering your Xpndr with an independent battery. If it cycles properly
then
you know you have a lot of noise coming in on the B+ line. If the Xpndr
continues
to have start up issues while on an independent battery then you have too
much RFI from your engine.
The thing to do is first of all to be sure that the resistor caps are still
intact.
The 582 is the exception that makes the rule about using both resistor plugs
and caps... You should be using both.
The next thing is to check all your grounds. Make sure they are all clean
and
tight to the frame of the plane. I expect that more than 90% of the
problems
people have with avionics can be traced to poor grounds. While you are at
it
check there is a good heavy jumper that goes across the rubber "Lord" mounts
of
the engine... Those mounts make great insulators and control cables make
poor
grounds.
Finally check the coaxial cable on the transponder. Make sure it hasn't
been pinched
or cracked try to position the antenna on the bottom of the plane as far
away from the engine as practical.
Be suer to let us know how things work out.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A,
Aerocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kenharrison
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 9:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Transponder Noise with Rotax 582
Hello Gentlemen,
Im having transponder trouble. I have installed a new KT76 in my Kitfox
III
with 582 Mod 90. I am running BR8ES plugs and have a Key West
regulator/rectifier.
So far I have been very happy with the system and have very low/acceptable
RF noise in the radio/intercom. The radio is a handheld on the 12V from
the aircraft, and the intercom is a David Clark in panel (cant remember the
model at the moment). I have installed and wired the transponder according
to
the directions (relatively certain about that). With the engine not
running,
if I turn the transponder on it powers up and cycles through its test
normally.
It appears to ident and test properly as any other transponder Ive used in
other aircraft, and it appears to be receiving interrogation from ATC, and
returning
responses normally (the light blinks periodically). My problem is that
when the 582 is running, the transponder will immediately start blinking
incessantly
and I get a crackling sound o!
ver the intercom.
Does anyone have any ideas what Ive done wrong. I have not had the
transponder
certified by the shop yet. Was hoping to clear up this problem before I
take
it to them. I have searched high and low on the internet and on the Kitfox
archives
and on Aeroelectric.com but can find any discussion of such a problem.
I would appreciate any guidance.
--------
Ken Harrison
Kitfox III
Rotax 582 C Box
Powerfin 3-Blade
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219411#219411
________________________________ Message 24
____________________________________
Time: 09:08:35 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
From: "wingnut" <wingnut@spamarrest.com>
Michel,
I've heard this line of reasoning before but I'm always a little confused by
it.
If your flaps add lift then doesn't that reduce your stall speed and
therefore
your minimum safe approach speed? If you minimum safe approach speed is
lower
then your angle of descent is higher for the same sink rate right? Am I
missing
something?
[quote] am certainly not an expert, Chris but ... why do you use the flaps
at all?
On my model 3, they only add a bit of lift but no drag as it is necessary
to prevent picking up speed as you put the nose down after the tall
trees.[quote]
--------
Luis Rodriguez
Model IV 1200
Rotax 912UL
Flying Weekly
Laurens, SC (34A)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219743#219743
________________________________ Message 25
____________________________________
Time: 10:15:51 PM PST US
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox dead stick practice
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
msm_9949(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Lenny,
>
> How does your airplane fly with the prop and engine disengaged? What's the
sink
rate at best glide speed? That's what this inquiring mind wants to know.
>
> At idle (2500 rpm, 50-55 indicated) I lose 200-300 ft/min. That's gotta
change
considerably for the worse with the prop disengaged. Because of my
intractably
high idle speed, dead stick practice means shut down and re-start
I was not paying much attention to that today, but I can tell you that
freewheeling
it is a significant amount of drag. If I am remembering correctly, it was
about 650 fpm at 60 mph IAS, GPS said 45 ground speed.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219746#219746
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| Subject: | Re: International aircraft relocation |
Lynn - sorry this response was so long coming.
I used a 20ft shipping container to move my plane. I removed the wing,
drained the fuel and the wrapped them in three layers of bubble wrap
supplied by the moving company. I did the same for the horiz stab and
elevators.
The fuselage was simply wheeled in and I used tie down straps from the
strut and flout mount brackets down to the floor. (wooden floor so it was
easy to screw attachment points). I also screwed 2" x 4" Plastic lumber in
front and behind wheels.
I slung a wing each side of the container so that they laid flat against
the side and had about 6" foam between the leading edge and the floor.
When it arrived it was exactly as packed with no damage.
Registration in Australia was a really simple matter and all that was
required was an inspection by a RAA (Recreational Aircraft Australia )
LAME . Only hold up was getting the plane de-registered in Canada as I
should have done this before leaving. I was hesitant at the time to do
this as I have heard horror stories about owners deregistering planes and
then not being able to get them registered. However this wasn't the case
and it went extremely smoothly.
C-FAJW is now a legally registered 19-3507 Australian recreational
Aircraft
Once here I upgraded my Jab 2200 to the latest model and now have about
1800 hrs to fly to my next major. (Hopefully)
Regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
15/12/2008 11:38 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
Sounds like fun, Gary....you got a game plan on when you'll be back
over here to try some more of that? And by the way, how did you get
your Kitfox over there in Oz? I think you mentioned it, but I've
forgotten. This would be a refresher course for others who might like
to ship their planes.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 13, 2008, at 4:53 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Hmm - not sure I agree with this one. However it depends upon
> location. When I was on Skis and lived on a lake in Canada I would
> switch of at about 3,00ft over the lake and glide around and
> practice my spot landings. It was great practice and i was amazed
> how far I was out when I first started.
>
> After a while it became very easy to control my descent and use
> slips etc to land "on the numbers".
>
> The only caveat here is I had basically unlimited area to land and
> if I landed long or short it made no difference
>
> I learned a lot from that!
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> Catz631@aol.com
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 14/12/2008 01:05 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
>
>
> Lynn,
> I just have to say this (at the risk of being called an old
> lady )! Please don't practice dead stick landings. I had expected
> someone to already bring this up but it hasn't happened. Practicing
> deadsticks is a good way to smash your airplane into pieces. As an
> example we had a guy at our field (Navy student) who decided to
> practice an engine out in a Yankee(nice airplane) so he came over
> the field at high key, low key final and promptly crashed his
> airplane on the field. He was OK but the plane was totaled. If
> something happens enroute or you misjudge, or the engine doesn't
> start, you are screwed. I have had three dead sticks in my Kitfox.
> All occurred on final when the engine quit due to low idle rpm on
> my engine. I now have that resolved. This happened when I first
> bought the aircraft and I must admit it does glide good. The first
> dead stick (have had many since) for me was in a T-28 which
> occurred when the master rod broke at 3000 feet. I glided that one
> to NAS whiting field and landed 500 ft short of the runway on the
> grass. That airplane is now on static display. The military and
> flight schools have long given up actual dead stick landings as too
> many aircraft were destroyed. One more thing and I will leave you
> alone.( as I highly respect your writing) Glider training will
> absolutely help out a sport or any other pilot. You will learn more
> about your aircraft then you could have imagined and the training
> will apply to any aircraft! ( I even used it in flying P-3's over
> mountainous terrain and on approaches) There, I have said it and I
> am done. It would bother me if one of our new pilots decided to
> shut his engine down to glide around, misjudged and then crunched
> his airplane (besides, rapid cooling is not good on the engine)
> Dick
> Maddux
> Fox
> 4-1200
> 912UL
>
> Pensacola,Fl
>
>
> One site keeps you connected to all your emailw-
> dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000019">The NEW AOL.com.
>
>
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: International aircraft relocation |
Thanks, Gary...only one little tidbit of info that I'd like to know
if you're willing to divulge...cost? Had to be horrendous....
And...will you be back to Canada at some time...eh? : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:52 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn - sorry this response was so long coming.
>
> I used a 20ft shipping container to move my plane. I removed the
> wing, drained the fuel and the wrapped them in three layers of
> bubble wrap supplied by the moving company. I did the same for the
> horiz stab and elevators.
>
> The fuselage was simply wheeled in and I used tie down straps from
> the strut and flout mount brackets down to the floor. (wooden floor
> so it was easy to screw attachment points). I also screwed 2" x 4"
> Plastic lumber in front and behind wheels.
>
> I slung a wing each side of the container so that they laid flat
> against the side and had about 6" foam between the leading edge and
> the floor.
>
> When it arrived it was exactly as packed with no damage.
>
> Registration in Australia was a really simple matter and all that
> was required was an inspection by a RAA (Recreational Aircraft
> Australia ) LAME . Only hold up was getting the plane de-registered
> in Canada as I should have done this before leaving. I was hesitant
> at the time to do this as I have heard horror stories about owners
> deregistering planes and then not being able to get them
> registered. However this wasn't the case and it went extremely
> smoothly.
>
> C-FAJW is now a legally registered 19-3507 Australian recreational
> Aircraft
>
> Once here I upgraded my Jab 2200 to the latest model and now have
> about 1800 hrs to fly to my next major. (Hopefully)
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> Classic 4 Jab 2200
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 15/12/2008 11:38 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
>
>
>
> Sounds like fun, Gary....you got a game plan on when you'll be back
> over here to try some more of that? And by the way, how did you get
> your Kitfox over there in Oz? I think you mentioned it, but I've
> forgotten. This would be a refresher course for others who might like
> to ship their planes.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2008, at 4:53 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hmm - not sure I agree with this one. However it depends upon
> > location. When I was on Skis and lived on a lake in Canada I would
> > switch of at about 3,00ft over the lake and glide around and
> > practice my spot landings. It was great practice and i was amazed
> > how far I was out when I first started.
> >
> > After a while it became very easy to control my descent and use
> > slips etc to land "on the numbers".
> >
> > The only caveat here is I had basically unlimited area to land and
> > if I landed long or short it made no difference
> >
> > I learned a lot from that!
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Catz631@aol.com
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 14/12/2008 01:05 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn,
> > I just have to say this (at the risk of being called an old
> > lady )! Please don't practice dead stick landings. I had expected
> > someone to already bring this up but it hasn't happened. Practicing
> > deadsticks is a good way to smash your airplane into pieces. As an
> > example we had a guy at our field (Navy student) who decided to
> > practice an engine out in a Yankee(nice airplane) so he came over
> > the field at high key, low key final and promptly crashed his
> > airplane on the field. He was OK but the plane was totaled. If
> > something happens enroute or you misjudge, or the engine doesn't
> > start, you are screwed. I have had three dead sticks in my Kitfox.
> > All occurred on final when the engine quit due to low idle rpm on
> > my engine. I now have that resolved. This happened when I first
> > bought the aircraft and I must admit it does glide good. The first
> > dead stick (have had many since) for me was in a T-28 which
> > occurred when the master rod broke at 3000 feet. I glided that one
> > to NAS whiting field and landed 500 ft short of the runway on the
> > grass. That airplane is now on static display. The military and
> > flight schools have long given up actual dead stick landings as too
> > many aircraft were destroyed. One more thing and I will leave you
> > alone.( as I highly respect your writing) Glider training will
> > absolutely help out a sport or any other pilot. You will learn more
> > about your aircraft then you could have imagined and the training
> > will apply to any aircraft! ( I even used it in flying P-3's over
> > mountainous terrain and on approaches) There, I have said it and I
> > am done. It would bother me if one of our new pilots decided to
> > shut his engine down to glide around, misjudged and then crunched
> > his airplane (besides, rapid cooling is not good on the engine)
> > Dick
> > Maddux
> > Fox
> > 4-1200
> > 912UL
> >
> > Pensacola,Fl
> >
> >
> >
> > One site keeps you connected to all your emailw-
> > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000019">The NEW AOL.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > ==================================
>
>
> ===========================================================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Not sure where I heard or who told me or maybe I just read it, side
slips with flaps was not a good idea. I just never did them with flaps
for that reason. Maybe someone can refresh me on the why.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
Daughenbaugh
Sent: 2008-12-17 09:56
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
--> <rjdaugh@rapidnet.com>
Thanks Larry,
I just suspect that the Series 5/6/7 wing behaves differently than the
higher lift wing.
At full flaps on my 5, it takes a lot of forces to push the stick over
to slip and there is a lot of buffeting. This isn't there at the half
flaps point. I did put anther detent in at the 1/4 flap point when I
built my plane. I do use that often. It adds some lift but very little
drag.
Slips are fun and very useful.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryM
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps
Randy,
i have a MK1V Avid Stol wing with a 582.
larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219770#219770
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
There might be aircraft out there where the flaps blank the airflow over the tail
and you lose control. Just a theory. But, I have never had a problem slipping
my Speedster, with or without flaps.
Full flaps on my Speedster really throw the breaks out, but I lose a lot of aileron
authority and get a lot of adverse yaw. Slipping with full flaps is possible,
but the rudder/aileron/elevator coordination demands a lot more attention
and it's not comfortable. Anything less than full flaps is no problem.
Forget the opinions and hearsay. Only one way to find out. Go up to 2500' agl,
slow down to approach speeds with power off and full flaps, and kick in the
most slip you or your airplane can do. I kick a lot of rudder with the opposite
wing waaaayyyy down starting at 60 mph. I then pull the nose up a little
to slow down to 50 to assure myself that I won't do a cross-control stall at my
approach speeds.
I am now comfortable cutting a moderately aggressive slip on final close to the
ground.
For the academic portion of the chat, flaps increase lift, and increased lift always
increases drag. Additionally, flaps provide a nose-down pitching moment
which causes you to pull more up-elevator, which increases drag as well. Since
the Kitfox is so light then a 10% increase in drag just doesn't feel like
much.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219882#219882
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox dead stick practice |
edgraydallas wrote:
> And, has anyone devised wing tip extensions to
> increase the l/d of a Kitfox? Removing the tips and plugging in a 5 foot
> tapered extension would be an easy mod if you like to tinker.
> --
That is a really neat idea, I think that would be great for slow flying and sightseeing
around the local area. I have seen removable wingtips done on a motorglider,
one set for cruise, and one set for soaring, and it works very well.
I might have to try that on my Kitfox one day !!! Bending force on the wing
spars would be increased a lot, so you would have to watch your G loadings and
turbulence very carefully. But I would not think it would be a problem if for
smooth flying in normal weather conditions.
As far as air brakes, definitely not need on this class of airplane. If you want
to get down point the nose down, let the speed come up and you will be dropping
at an incredible rate. A kittfox is not at all like a Mooney, the Mooney
will approach VNE pretty quick with the nose pointed down, with the kitfox,
you can descend at a much steeper angle compared to the Mooney without exceeding
VNE. The Kitfox is a very light, not anywhere near the potential energy with
altitude compared to a Mooney, and lots more drag.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219884#219884
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Dead stick practice |
Dick Maddux wrote:
>
>
> Practicing deadsticks is a good way to smash your airplane into pieces. As an
example we had a guy at our field (Navy student) who decided to practice an engine
out in a Yankee(nice airplane) so he came over the field at high key, low
key final and promptly crashed his airplane on the field. He was OK but the
plane was totaled.
>
I could not disagree more with this statement. With the frequency that engines
quit in experimental aircraft, you should most definitely have some practice
with actual deadstick landings so that you don't kill yourself or unnecessarily
tear up your airplane when the engine does quit.
So you saw a guy crash his airplane trying to do a deadstick landing, there are
a lot more guys that save airplanes by having good skills when an engine failure
does occur than the ONE example you talk about. Getting all emotional over
ONE isolated example that you saw go very wrong to make a statement like you
did here is not what an enlightened person would do, and shows poor judgment
on your part.
You state that the military does not require pilots to practice actual deadstick
landings any more is correct, you saying it is because they are too dangerous
to practice is nothing short of dishonest and misrepresenting the truth. Except
for a few exceptions, all military aircraft are now turbine powered. Turbine
engines are so reliable that the threat of power failures is almost NOTHING
compared to what the Kitfox community faces. Also, given the extreme landing
speeds, hydraulic systems, and characteristics of modern turbine aircraft,
it would be very dangerous to practice dead stick landings. Then again, this
has NOTHING to do with practicing actual deadstick in a single engine light aircraft.
So if you have a point to make, be a little more honest than trying
to say what applies to military jets also applies to Kitfox aircraft.
For those of you that do try actual engine out, be very careful, give yourself
plenty of room to come up short AND go long... I use an airport with two 5000
foot runways at 90 degrees to practice for this. Here is how I do this and
give myself miles of extra room to land. I set up to land in a standard pattern
to runway 9. If I find myself to low on downwind, I make a 90 degree turn
from downwind to enter an immediate final to runway 18 and land... If normal,
I make the full pattern to runway 9, and have a mile of runway to stop should
I end up very long. The key to safety is to have very large landing areas,
and lots of options. As with anything in aviation, if you use poor judgment,
and make mistakes you can have an accident. If you are a new pilot, or just
don't have the skill to practice actual deadstick landings, get a qualified
pilot to instruct you.
The LAST time you want to practice an actual engine landing is with a passenger
over tight areas. Having the motor off will is a very big shock if you have
never actually experienced it before, and you are almost guaranteed to screw it
up. Practice it, and you will do a much better job in the emergency landing.
Engines in Kitfoxes fail with enough frequency that it is important to be
able to deal with it confidently when it happens.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219888#219888
Message 14
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| Subject: | Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit |
I'm nearing the completion of my Model 7 and noticed that the Dynon D100
compass indication is not correct (i.e., indicates west when the aircraft is
pointed south). The remote compass module is currently mounded behind the pilot
seat adjacent to the baggage compartment in the same vertical plane as the
D100 unit in the instrument panel. I've confirmed with a hand held compass
that there is a magnetic field in the area the Dynon remote compass is
currently mounted and that there is a magnetic filed in the vicinity of most
structural tubing in the fuselage. My questions are as follows:
1. Is there a location within the Kitfox fuse that Dynon users have found
minimal magnetic interference?
2. Is there a way to reduce/eliminate magnetic interference in the vicinity
of the remote compass's current location (perhaps ground/bond) the structural
tubing in this area?
Thanks for the help!
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield fit and now - coolant overheat |
Darin,
You were correct. The fairings turned out just fine and fit
perfectly. I used duct tape (score another victory for the substance
that holds the world together) and clay. Also, I used both
lightweight and bidirectional fiberglass. I attached a couple of
pictures. They aren't nearly as great as yours, but as I said, if
they turned out half as good I'd be happy. I'm happy!
First flight was going to be Thursday or Friday, but I had a
catastrophic failure of the coolant overflow bottle due to overheating
and will have to replace it. Of course they don't make a direct
replacement so I'll have order a new one, make a new bracket, and
install it in a new location. I'm not sure why the bottle gave out,
but I was doing a lot of taxi testing and it was over 80 degrees
today. The CHT got to 290. I also found a piece of paper blocking
air flow over half the coolant radiator. All of this could have
contributed to the overheating. Has anyone else experienced this?
I'm hopeful for a first flight before Christmas, but after over 14+
years another few days is nothing. Thanks for your help and have a
nice holiday.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit |
Interesting that you bring up this problem as I will be installing a magnetometer
in my baggage area soon. I assume you first have your magnetometer installed
as per Dynon's instructions (most of them have a front that should correlate
or face the same direction as the EFIS...not sure about the Dynon though). If
you are good there, then you might want to look into degaussing the affected
area. You can buy or build a degausser...just do a search and you will find a
bunch of info.
Hope that helps
Dan B
--- On Wed, 12/17/08, CDE2fly@aol.com <CDE2fly@aol.com> wrote:
> From: CDE2fly@aol.com <CDE2fly@aol.com>
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 17, 2008, 7:39 PM
> I'm nearing the completion of my Model 7 and noticed
> that the Dynon D100
> compass indication is not correct (i.e., indicates west
> when the aircraft is
> pointed south). The remote compass module is currently
> mounded behind the pilot
> seat adjacent to the baggage compartment in the same
> vertical plane as the
> D100 unit in the instrument panel. I've confirmed with
> a hand held compass
> that there is a magnetic field in the area the Dynon remote
> compass is
> currently mounted and that there is a magnetic filed in the
> vicinity of most
> structural tubing in the fuselage. My questions are as
> follows:
>
> 1. Is there a location within the Kitfox fuse that Dynon
> users have found
> minimal magnetic interference?
>
> 2. Is there a way to reduce/eliminate magnetic interference
> in the vicinity
> of the remote compass's current location (perhaps
> ground/bond) the structural
> tubing in this area?
>
> Thanks for the help!
>
> **************One site keeps you connected to all your
> email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: International aircraft relocation |
Cost wasn't as bad as I thought (approx CD$6,000)
I get back to the US and C about every 6 mths at least for business but I
think I'll stay put in Australia for at least the foreseeable future
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
18/12/2008 10:31 AM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Re: International aircraft relocation
Thanks, Gary...only one little tidbit of info that I'd like to know
if you're willing to divulge...cost? Had to be horrendous....
And...will you be back to Canada at some time...eh? : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:52 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Lynn - sorry this response was so long coming.
>
> I used a 20ft shipping container to move my plane. I removed the
> wing, drained the fuel and the wrapped them in three layers of
> bubble wrap supplied by the moving company. I did the same for the
> horiz stab and elevators.
>
> The fuselage was simply wheeled in and I used tie down straps from
> the strut and flout mount brackets down to the floor. (wooden floor
> so it was easy to screw attachment points). I also screwed 2" x 4"
> Plastic lumber in front and behind wheels.
>
> I slung a wing each side of the container so that they laid flat
> against the side and had about 6" foam between the leading edge and
> the floor.
>
> When it arrived it was exactly as packed with no damage.
>
> Registration in Australia was a really simple matter and all that
> was required was an inspection by a RAA (Recreational Aircraft
> Australia ) LAME . Only hold up was getting the plane de-registered
> in Canada as I should have done this before leaving. I was hesitant
> at the time to do this as I have heard horror stories about owners
> deregistering planes and then not being able to get them
> registered. However this wasn't the case and it went extremely
> smoothly.
>
> C-FAJW is now a legally registered 19-3507 Australian recreational
> Aircraft
>
> Once here I upgraded my Jab 2200 to the latest model and now have
> about 1800 hrs to fly to my next major. (Hopefully)
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> Classic 4 Jab 2200
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 15/12/2008 11:38 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
>
>
>
> Sounds like fun, Gary....you got a game plan on when you'll be back
> over here to try some more of that? And by the way, how did you get
> your Kitfox over there in Oz? I think you mentioned it, but I've
> forgotten. This would be a refresher course for others who might like
> to ship their planes.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2008, at 4:53 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Hmm - not sure I agree with this one. However it depends upon
> > location. When I was on Skis and lived on a lake in Canada I would
> > switch of at about 3,00ft over the lake and glide around and
> > practice my spot landings. It was great practice and i was amazed
> > how far I was out when I first started.
> >
> > After a while it became very easy to control my descent and use
> > slips etc to land "on the numbers".
> >
> > The only caveat here is I had basically unlimited area to land and
> > if I landed long or short it made no difference
> >
> > I learned a lot from that!
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Catz631@aol.com
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 14/12/2008 01:05 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Kitfox-List: Dead stick practice
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn,
> > I just have to say this (at the risk of being called an old
> > lady )! Please don't practice dead stick landings. I had expected
> > someone to already bring this up but it hasn't happened. Practicing
> > deadsticks is a good way to smash your airplane into pieces. As an
> > example we had a guy at our field (Navy student) who decided to
> > practice an engine out in a Yankee(nice airplane) so he came over
> > the field at high key, low key final and promptly crashed his
> > airplane on the field. He was OK but the plane was totaled. If
> > something happens enroute or you misjudge, or the engine doesn't
> > start, you are screwed. I have had three dead sticks in my Kitfox.
> > All occurred on final when the engine quit due to low idle rpm on
> > my engine. I now have that resolved. This happened when I first
> > bought the aircraft and I must admit it does glide good. The first
> > dead stick (have had many since) for me was in a T-28 which
> > occurred when the master rod broke at 3000 feet. I glided that one
> > to NAS whiting field and landed 500 ft short of the runway on the
> > grass. That airplane is now on static display. The military and
> > flight schools have long given up actual dead stick landings as too
> > many aircraft were destroyed. One more thing and I will leave you
> > alone.( as I highly respect your writing) Glider training will
> > absolutely help out a sport or any other pilot. You will learn more
> > about your aircraft then you could have imagined and the training
> > will apply to any aircraft! ( I even used it in flying P-3's over
> > mountainous terrain and on approaches) There, I have said it and I
> > am done. It would bother me if one of our new pilots decided to
> > shut his engine down to glide around, misjudged and then crunched
> > his airplane (besides, rapid cooling is not good on the engine)
> > Dick
> > Maddux
> > Fox
> > 4-1200
> > 912UL
> >
> > Pensacola,Fl
> >
> >
> >
> > One site keeps you connected to all your emailw-
> > dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000019">The NEW AOL.com.
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================
===========
>
>
> ========================
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/08/08 |
To Michael Paton,
I have a Series V Outback, not completed. Just hung the engine (rotax
912). We can talk. Call for Larry 209 656-6852
----- Original Message -----
From: michael paton
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 2:23 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/08/08
hi all
i am looking for an enginless kitfox, we have arotax engine 914
but lost the plane in a crash ,if anybody can help let us know
thanks michael
--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Kitfox-List Digest Server
<kitfox-list@matronics.com> wrote:
From: Kitfox-List Digest Server <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 12/08/08
To: "Kitfox-List Digest List"
<kitfox-list-digest@matronics.com>
Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 11:59 PM
*
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web
Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in
HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and
Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of
the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such
as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&
Chapter 08-12-08&Archive=KitfoxText Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C
hapter 08-12-08&Archive=Kitfox
=======================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
=======================
----------------------------------------------------------
Kitfox-List Digest Archive
--- Total Messages Posted Mon
12/08/08: 15
---------------------------------------------------------- Today's
Message Index:---------------------- 1. 12:24 AM - List of
Contributors 2008 (Matt Dralle) 2. 03:54 AM - Re: electrical wiring
for Kitfox 1 (William Skipwith) 3. 04:21 AM - Re: sight glass fuel
indicator? (Bradley Webb) 4. 08:28 AM - Re: sight glass fuel
indicator? (Lowell Fitt) 5. 09:15 AM - Re: sight glass fuel
indicator? (Rick) 6. 11:38 AM - Re: electrical wiring for Kitfox 1
(Guy Buchanan) 7. 11:38 AM - Re: My Kitfox hit my car. What to look
for damage wise? (Guy Buchanan) 8. 12:35 PM - Re: My Kitfox hit my
car. What to look for damage wise? (815TL) 9. 12:39 PM - Re: sight
glass fuel indicator? (Paul Morel) 10. 02:16 PM - Re: sight glass
fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson)
11. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox mishap in Colorado (Noel Loveys) 12.
03:23 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (patrick reilly) 13.
07:14 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson) 14. 07:23
PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson) 15. 07:26 PM -
Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________Time: 12:24:36 AM PST USFrom: Matt
Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>Subject: Kitfox-List: List of Contributors
2008Dear Listers,This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want
to thank everyonethatso generously made a contribution this year in
support of the Matronics EmailList and Forum operation. Your generosity
keeps the wheels on this cart and Itruly appreciate the many kind words
of encouragement and
financialreimbursement.If you haven't yet made a Contribution in
support of this year's FundRaiser, pleasefeel free to do so. The great
List Fund Raiser gifts will be availableon the Contribution site for a
little while longer, so hurry and make yourContributiontoday and still
get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contributionweb site
is: http://www.matronics.com/contributionor by personal check
94551-0347I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
(http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP
(http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric
(http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support
during thisyear's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted
merchandise. These are great guys that
support the aviation industry and I encourage each andevery Lister to
have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your
support is very much appreciated!And finally, below you will find a web
link to the 2008 List of Contributorscurrentas of 12/7/08! Have a look
at this list of names as *these* are the peoplethat make all of these
List services possible! I can't thank each of youenough for your
support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.htmlI will be shipping out all of
the gifts around the end of December. In mostcases,gifts will be
shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this
year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics
Email List Administrator________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________Time: 03:54:45 AM PST USFrom:
William Skipwith <bskip@mac.com>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: electrical
wiring for Kitfox 1I actually had the same thing happen on my 66 C-150
when I changed the battery. I repaired a small wire that I thought I
broke while removing the battery. It turned out that when I had the
plunger type ignition replaced with a push button the wire was no
longer needed and was cut into but never removed. The ignition was
heavy duty so it was not effected by my bad.On Dec 7, 2008, at 9:41 PM,
jlno7@aim.com wrote:> I have a Kitfox 1 with 2 modifications. I believe
I have a short in > my wiring and am wondering if there is a wiring
diagram for my > plane. I recently installed a new battery and when I
hooked it up > the wire melted from the ignition all the way to the
battery. This
> is not the main cable but a regular gauge wire that attached from >
the battery to the ignition switch. Can anyone give me advice on >
locating the problem.> Jerry Novak> N299JK>> Listen to 350+ music,
sports, & news radio stations ' including > songs for the holidays '
FREE while you browse. Start Listening
Now!>________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________Time: 04:21:05 AM PST USFrom:
"Bradley Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sight glass
fuel indicator?The AN series aluminum reducers would work better than
brass, I'd think.Taps are tapered, so you could size the threads smaller
than normal, and geta good "bite", such that the adhesive would only
serve to seal it andholdit in place.BTW, I slip to feed the header in
the exact same way. But my fuel
system isdesigned to detect header feed and level, not so much fuel
level in thetanks.Because I run a fuel injected engine which requires
pressure, I have a flowsender that tells me flow into the header, and a
level switch in the headertank to detect anything less than full. With
this setup, no fuel flowindication means my header is not getting
filled, and I wait for the lightto come on, which indicates about 45
minutes of run time remaining at thatpoint.It works nicely, in that I
can do whatever is required to keep feeding theheader tank (slip, etc.)
and when the light goes on, I have VFR fuelreserve, and need to land. I
know that at 21 in/hg, I flow about 2.2gph, soless flow indicates no
header feeding, such as a blockage. More flowindicates the header has
gotten low, and is refilling itself. Either way,the fuel pump is sending
fuel to the engine.Actually, my fuel tank level
senders are superfluous, and only serve toprovide an estimate of fuel
level in flight. I use them more on preflight todetermine whether
refueling is necessary. On my new Model three, I'm goingto do both
senders and sight gauges, just for redundancy, and neither ishard nor
expensive to do.Bradley> -----Original Message-----> From:
owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list->
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson> Sent: Sunday, December
07, 2008 9:18 AM> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re:
Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?> > > I'm not sure if epoxy
would stick to the brass, would it? Maybe scuff> it up real good, or
better yet, chuck it up in a lathe and knurl the> outside of the
threaded area, then epoxy in place. That would> certainly make enough of
a "bitable surface" for
epoxyadherence.> > As far as getting it right down to the bottom of the
tank, remember> this is only for a sight gauge, so not being able to
visibly read the> very last drop of fuel would be a good thing...you'd
be landing for a> fill-up before you got into an emergency situation
(said the guy who> flies with one wing low so the other can feed his
header tank, and> thereby make it to the next stop) : )> > Lynn
Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs>
Sensenich 62x46> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair
direct-fire ignition> system;> also building a new pair of snow skis> do
not archive> > > > On Dec 6, 2008, at 10:03 PM, Bradley Webb wrote:> >
>> > Lynn,> >> > The idea of using the threaded reducer is a very good
one.
One> > could epoxy> > that in place so it's would stay permanently. The
only smallissue> > I could> > see is that the port will not be at the
very bottom of the tank.> >> > Bradley> > > >
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________Time: 08:28:31 AM PST USFrom:
"Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight
glass fuel indicator?For what it's worth, over the weekend I rethought
my suggested method for retrofitting a sight gauge in an already
installed tank and thought of one additional step. After the bosses are
fabricated and tapped, I would postition them in place, mark the
position of the tapped hole, drill through the tank - small hole -and
Hysol a short length of aluminum tube through the hole. The tube would
protect the wall
of the tank from constant contact with fuel. Then I would Hysol the
fabricted tapped boss to the side of the tank.Lowell----- Original
Message ----- From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>Sent: Saturday,
December 06, 2008 8:21 PMSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?>> For what it's worth, the reducer is a long time practice
with Kitfoxfor > the finger strainers which are, or should be, removed
periodically for > inspection. Thinking of the finger strainers, I
don't think withthese in > place and the usual down line fuel filters, I
would hesitate drilling for > sight gauges. I think there are methods
to remove most drill debris and > methods to reduce it.>> I think, what
I would do is make a boss out of fiberglass, drill and tap > the boss,
then glue it in the desired place with Hysol. Then take a #30
> or so drill and drill down the center of the threaded boss. This way
you > don't have to put a drilled plug in the tubing to dampen surges in
the> sight gauge. The sight gauges are standard on the Model IV and up
so > they have tons of long term use. I think the leakage issues of
time past > have been resolved with different fittings and lots of home
brew methods > for nice looking and quite accurate gauges - mine - I
could estimate > within a gallon or so. Personally, I would much rather
look at my fuel > than a needle if fuel was a critical issue at any
time.>> I talked to a guy recently that mistook a vertical needle as
half full, > when it actually was on flat out empty. Then we can all
recall stories of> folks that suffered engine outs with lots of fuel
still showing on the > gauge. Not much chance of error with a puddle of
gas in a plastic
tube.>> If you haven't worked much with fiberglass, cover the desired
areastop > and bottom with clear packing tape and then lay on a couple
of layers of > fiberglass. When it cures, pop the glass off and using
that as a bases, > lay up enough additional layers for sufficient
threads to hold the > fitting. Drill and tap and trim to a reasonable
shape and size and after > roughing both mating surfaces glue it in
place with Hysol or some other > structural adhesive. Drill the tiny
hole and put the fittings and tubing > together. With this method, the
only clearance issues would be fitting > issues and it could be placed
pretty close to the top and bottom of the > tank. Any debris from the
drilling would be minimal and easily trapped in> the fiters.>> Lowell
Fitt> Cameron Park, CA> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL> Currently focusing on
the Left Wing, Rudder Gap Seal Cuffs and Landing > Gear Fairing>> -----
Original Message ----- > From: "Bradley Webb" <bmwebb@cox.net>> To:
<kitfox-list@matronics.com>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 7:03 PM>
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?>>>>>> Lynn,>>>>
The idea of using the threaded reducer is a very good one. One could >>
epoxy>> that in place so it's would stay permanently. The only small
issueI >> could>> see is that the port will not be at the very bottom of
the tank.>>>> Bradley>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> From:
owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list->>>
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson>>> Sent: Saturday,
December 06, 2008 11:21
AM>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com>>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight
glass fuel indicator?>>>>>>>>> Regarding thread stripping....if you
drill and thread to 1/4"NPT,>>> and install 1/4 NPT-to-1/8 NPT reducing
bushings, you'll onlyhave to>>> install into the tank one time. I'd
prefer this method totubing>>> which is epoxied in place...too little
mechanical grip with this>>> method, but that's just me.>>>>>> Lynn
Matteson>>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger>>> Jabiru 2200, #2062,
593hrs>>> Sensenich 62x46>>> flying again after rebuild, and new
Electroair direct-fireignition>>> system;>>> also building a new pair of
snow skis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 6, 2008,
at 8:26 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:>>>>>> >>>> > James,>>> > There's no
need to thread anything into the fiberglass.Drill holes>>> > at the>>> >
very top and bottom, and epoxy in short aluminum tubes towhich you>>> >
will>>> > attach the clear tubing. Threads suck in this applicationmost
of>>> > the time,>>> > and they leak, get cross threaded easily, and
will strip outabout>>> > the third>>> > time you pull the tubing off of
them.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
Message 5 _____________________________________Time: 09:15:16 AM PST
USFrom: "Rick"
<wingsdown@verizon.net>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?Not to offend any of the possible solutions offered, but If
she weremine I would just add a small fuel flow gage to the panel. You
can putthe pick up in the fuel supply line. Several are offered and have
manyadvantages over just looking up to see what is left. Not that that
is abad thing, far from it. But at this point in the finished state of
theaircraft it just makes more sense to me. If you do decide to go with
the sight tubes let me know and I will lookto see what I have laying
around. Seems I was going to replace somethingand had to buy the entire
kit. If you do drill the fiberglass forfittings might I suggest you do a
bit of glass layer build up first. Youcould also put in some nice
permanent bushings to screw your tubefittings in to.
Rick________________________________ Message
6 _____________________________________Time: 11:38:42 AM PST USFrom:
Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: electrical
wiring for Kitfox 1At 07:41 PM 12/7/2008, you wrote:>I believe I have a
short in my wiring and am >wondering if there is a wiring diagram for my
>plane. I recently installed a new battery and >when I hooked it up the
wire melted from the >ignition all the way to the battery.Jerry,
First, unless your plane came with one you won't find a valid wiring
diagram, as no two Kitfoxes are the same in this regard. That said,
these planes are pretty simple so it should be easy to diagnose. You
obviously generated a dead short, meaning you connected the battery
positive to negative with nearly no resistance, or load. The most likely
culprit is that a wire that should have been connected to ground was
connected to hot, or some other missed connection. The second would be
a switch failure, in which one of the terminals gets shorted to ground.
(This usually results in a high resistance failure, melting the switch,
not the wiring.) Give us more details on the layout and we'll
try to help you diagnose from afar. (And if you put your location in
your signature, you might find a local Kitfoxer with skills to help. ;-)
)Guy BuchananSan Diego, CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks
mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________Time: 11:38:55 AM PST USFrom: Guy
Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: My Kitfox hit my
car. What to look for damage wise?At 02:46 PM 12/7/2008, you wrote:>Ya
know, if it wern't for bad luck I, I would have no luck at all.
Andrew! What the hell's goin' on!? At least you've gotyour
priorities straight; not a word about your wife's car. ;-) Seriously
though, it sounds like you've proved the robustness of the Kitfox once
again. In general steel frames are very resilient, in that they tend to
bend, more than break. Therefore, if you can't see any damage, then I
doubt that any exists. One thing you didn't mention was overall
alignment- is the empennage straight? Are the stabs parallel the wings?
Is the rudder vertical? I not, you may have twisted the entire fuselage,
possibly bending one of the internal diagonals. (Which you could see
looking back from the baggage compartment.) If not I'd say you got off
easy. Good luck!Guy BuchananSan Diego, CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100%
done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________
Message 8
_____________________________________Time: 12:35:29 PM PST USSubject:
Kitfox-List: Re: My Kitfox hit my car. What to look for damage
wise?From: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>Guy Buchanan wrote:> At 02:46
PM 12/7/2008, you wrote:> > > Ya know, if it wern't for bad luck I, I
would have no luck atall.> > > > > > Andrew! What the hell's
goin' on!? At least you'vegot your > priorities straight; not a word
about your wife's car. ;-) Seriously > though, it sounds like you've
proved the robustness of the Kitfox > once again. In general steel
frames are very resilient, in that they > tend to bend, more than break.
Therefore, if you can't see any > damage, then I doubt that any exists.
One thing you didn't mention > was overall alignment- is the empennage
straight? Are the stabs > parallel the
wings? Is the rudder vertical? I not, you may have > twisted the entire
fuselage, possibly bending one of the internal > diagonals. (Which you
could see looking back from the baggage > compartment.) If not I'd say
you got off easy. Good luck!> > > Guy Buchanan> San Diego, CA> K-IV 1200
/ 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.You got me Guy.
I have always had bad luck with things. About the only goodluckI have
had in the past few years is 2 healthy children, and they found
naturalgas under my property (a few bucks extra a month). Everything
else I tocuhseems to go bad. :(I did not get to pull the tarp off and
put the wings out it last night, as thewinds were still quite high. I
am going to tonight and take a better look atit. I don't think the fuse
is twisted, it looks OK from what I could see. Icould not tell if the
tail and
everthing was straight, but I should be able totonight. What had me
worried the most was the horiz. stab. buing pushed up onthe one side.
But like I said, there was no bent tubeing, or wrinkles thatI could
see.The wives van did not fair too bad. A couple of scuffs on the hood,
and alittlered paint from the plane. She was not too happy, but
understanding.I will let you all know what it looks like tonight when I
get the wings out.AndrewRead this topic online
here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218277#218277_________
_______________________ Message 9
_____________________________________Time: 12:39:39 PM PST USFrom: "Paul
Morel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?Here's about the cheapest Fuel Flow system I found. I got it
a little cheaper at Oshkosh this past summer and it's
going in my Speedster.http://www.fdatasystems.com/Paul MorelModel IV
SpeedsterLocust Grove, GA----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick"
<wingsdown@verizon.net>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:13 PMSubject:
RE: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?>> Not to offend any of the
possible solutions offered, but If she were> mine I would just add a
small fuel flow gage to the panel. You can put> the pick up in the fuel
supply line. Several are offered and have many> advantages over just
looking up to see what is left. Not that that is a> bad thing, far from
it. But at this point in the finished state of the> aircraft it just
makes more sense to me.>> If you do decide to go with the sight tubes
let me know and I will look> to see what I have laying around. Seems I
was going to replace something> and had to buy the entire kit.
If you do drill the fiberglass for> fittings might I suggest you do a
bit of glass layer build up first. You> could also put in some nice
permanent bushings to screw your tube> fittings in to.>>> Rick>>>
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________Time: 02:16:13 PM PST USFrom: Lynn
Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?My two wing tanks feed the header tank, which, when full,
fills up the low fuel indicator tank and then back up to the right wing
tank. As long as I've got no yellow light on, I'm good for at least 15
minutes flight. But when I know I'm low on fuel, I'll glance at the
clear line between the low fuel indicator tank and the right wing, and
if it starts to show air instead of fuel, then I've got a heads- up that
the
yellow (low fuel) light will soon glow, indicating that I've got 15
minutes to find fuel or go into the low-wing method of transferring
fuel to the header tank. It's a lot less scary than it sounds!Lynn
MattesonKitfox IV Speedster, taildraggerJabiru 2200, #2062,
593hrsSensenich 62x46flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair
direct-fire ignition system;also building a new pair of snow skisdo not
archiveOn Dec 8, 2008, at 7:21 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:>> BTW, I slip to
feed the header in the exact same way. But my fuel > system is>
designed to detect header feed and level, not so much fuel level in >
the> tanks.>> Bradley>> As far as getting it right down to the bottom of
the tank, remember>> this is only for a sight gauge, so not being able
to visibly read the>> very last drop of fuel would
be a good thing...you'd be landingfor a>> fill-up before you got into
an emergency situation (said the guy who>> flies with one wing low so
the other can feed his header tank, and>> thereby make it to the next
stop) : )>>>> Lynn________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________Time: 02:45:21 PM PST USFrom: "Noel
Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox mishap
in ColoradoJust what I was thinking.... One other thing scrap the idea
of putting onan IFA prop.Noel-----Original Message-----From:
owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn MattesonSent: Sunday, December 07, 2008
10:38 AMSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox mishap in ColoradoAnd if
you do that, you'll have just lost a lot of
potential buyers in the Sport Pilot category...IF you should ever
decide to sell the plane.Lynn MattesonKitfox IV Speedster,
taildraggerJabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrsSensenich 62x46flying again after
rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system;also building a
new pair of snow skisOn Dec 6, 2008, at 5:59 PM, JetPilot wrote:>> Guy
is correct, being an experimental airplane, the builder can > make the
gross weight anything we wants....>> I am going to have a gross weight
of 2000 pounds on my Kitfox, just > so that no one can ever ever accuse
me of flying overweight should > something happen :)>> -------->
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast > as
you could have !!!>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S>>> Read this topic online
here:>>
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217956#217956>>____________
____________________ Message 12
____________________________________Time: 03:23:24 PM PST USFrom:
patrick reilly <patreilly43@hotmail.com>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: sight
glass fuel indicator?Lynn=2C Please explain the "low wing method".
Thanks.Pat reillyMod 3582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From:
lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sightglass fuel indicator?>
two wing tanks feed the header tank=2C which=2C whenfull=2C fills
up > the low fuel indicator tank and then back up to the right wing
tank. > As long as I've got no yellow light on=2C I'm good for atleast
15 > minutes flight. But when I know I'm low on fuel=2C I'll glanceat
the > clear line between
the low fuel indicator tank and the right wing=2C >and if it starts
to show air instead of fuel=2C then I've got a heads- >up that the
yellow (low fuel) light will soon glow=2C indicating that > I'vegot 15
minutes to find fuel or go into the low-wing method of > transferring
fuel to the header tank. It's a lot less scary than it > sounds!>> Lynn
Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C
#2062=2C593hrs> Sensenich 62x46> flying again after rebuild=2C and
new Electroair direct-fire ignition > system=3B> also building a new
pair of snow skis> donot archive> > > > On Dec 8=2C 2008=2C at 7:21
"Bradley Webb"<bmwebb@cox.net>> >> > BTW=2C I slip to feed the header
in the exact same way. But my fuel > >
systemis> > designed to detect header feed and level=2C not so much
fuel level in> > the> > tanks.> >> > Bradley> > > >> Asfar as getting it
right down to the bottom of the tank=2C remember> >> this is only for
a sightgauge=2C so not being able to visibly read the> >> very last
drop of fuel would bea good thing...you'd be landing for a> >> fill-up
before you got intoan emergency situation (said the guy who> >> flies
with one wing low so theother can feed his header tank=2C and> >>
thereby make it to the next stop) :)>
>>===================> > >
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________Time: 07:14:03 PM PST USFrom: Lynn
Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?Well, if you've got fuel tanks in both wings, by banking the
plane slightly, the fuel in the upper wing tank will flow toward the
outlet of that tank (if the outlet is on the inner wall of the
tank...that is, the side of the tank closest to the center of the
plane), and flow downward, helping to fill the header tank. If one of
your tanks empties faster than the other, this is a good way to insure
that the fuel in the most-full tank will flow into the header tank.
This is just a semi-emergency method of getting the normally "unusable
fuel" in the tank to flow into the header tank. You can sometimes just
fly with the nose slightly elevated and wings level if you need to get
those last few drops out of the tanks.I'm not condoning these methods
and by far the best thing to do is have an adequate amount of fuel on
board in the first place, but I've used these methods
to actually fill the header tank and make the low- fuel warning light
go out, because at the point that this light (in my system anyway) goes
out, I know that I have a full header tank...approx 1 gallon...and can
fly for 15 more minutes, more than enough for flying around the area
where I fly, where there is usually fuel within that amount of time. I
would not push it this far in unfamiliar territory. This is just a last
chance effort to use the fuel that you have aboard. I've practiced
doing this, as I feel one should know his or her plane well enough to
know where the fuel is going in the system and why it's going there,
and how to make it go where it doesn't want to...within reason.Lynn
MattesonKitfox IV Speedster, taildraggerJabiru 2200, #2062,
593hrsSensenich 62x46flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair
direct-fire ignition system;also building a new pair of
snow skisOn Dec 8, 2008, at 6:22 PM, patrick reilly wrote:> Lynn,
Please explain the "low wing method". Thanks.>> Pat reilly> Mod 3582
Rebuild> Rockford, IL>> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net> > Subject: Re:
Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?> > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008
17:15:28 -0500> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> >> >> > My two wing
tanks feed the header tank, which, when full, fills up> > the low fuel
indicator tank and then back up to the right wing tank.> > As long as
I've got no yellow light on, I'm good for at least15> > minutes flight.
But when I know I'm low on fuel, I'll glanceat the> > clear line between
the low fuel indicator tank and the right wing,> > and if it starts to
show air instead of fuel, then I've got aheads-> > up that the yellow
(low
fuel) light will soon glow, indicating that> > I've got 15 minutes to
find fuel or go into the low-wing methodof> > transferring fuel to the
header tank. It's a lot less scary thanit> > sounds!> >> > Lynn
Matteson> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger> > Jabiru 2200, #2062,
593hrs> > Sensenich 62x46> > flying again after rebuild, and new
Electroair direct-fire ignition> > system;> > also building a new pair
of snow skis> > do not archive> >> >> >> > On Dec 8, 2008, at 7:21 AM,
Bradley Webb wrote:> >> > >> > > BTW, I slip to feed the header in the
exact same way. But myfuel> > > system is> > > designed to detect header
feed and level, not so much fuel > level in> > > the> > > tanks.>
> >> > > Bradley> >> >> > >> As far as getting it right down to the
bottom of the tank, > remember> > >> this is only for a sight gauge, so
not being able to visibly > read the> > >> very last drop of fuel would
be a good thing...you'd be > landing for a> > >> fill-up before you got
into an emergency situation (said the > guy who> > >> flies with one
wing low so the other can feed his headertank, > and> > >> thereby make
it to the next stop) : )> > >>>
>====================> >
_======> >> >> >>>
========== _- >
========== _- >
=========________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________Time: 07:23:01 PM PST USFrom: Lynn
Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?One more thing....I've got clear glass filters in my downlines
from my wing tanks to the header tank, and can also observe that these
are full (or not), and this helps me judge whether or not the fuel is
flowing. After the header tank is full, I can observe fuel flowing
upwards in the clear vent line that leads from the header tank through
the low-fuel warning tank (about 10 ounces), and upwards to the upper
reaches of the right wing tank. This is visual proof of 15 minutes more
useable fuel left, and I can then level the plane and fly towards fuel
or a landing place.Lynn MattesonKitfox IV
Speedster, taildraggerJabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrsSensenich 62x46flying
again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;also building a new pair of snow skisOn Dec 8, 2008, at 6:22 PM,
patrick reilly wrote:> Lynn, Please explain the "low wing method".
Thanks.>> Pat reilly> Mod 3582 Rebuild> Rockford, IL>> > From:
lynnmatt@jps.net> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?> > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:15:28 -0500> > To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com> >> >> > My two wing tanks feed the header
tank, which, when full, fills up> > the low fuel indicator tank and then
back up to the right wing tank.> > As long as I've got no yellow light
on, I'm good for at least15> > minutes flight. But when I know I'm low
on fuel, I'll glanceat the> >
clear line between the low fuel indicator tank and the right wing,> >
and if it starts to show air instead of fuel, then I've got aheads-> >
up that the yellow (low fuel) light will soon glow, indicating that> >
I've got 15 minutes to find fuel or go into the low-wing methodof> >
transferring fuel to the header tank. It's a lot less scary thanit> >
sounds!> >> > Lynn________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________Time: 07:26:00 PM PST USSubject: Re:
Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?From:
gary.algate@sandvik.comLynn if you fly inverted for a short period you
can squeeze out another 2.5 minutes!Hardy Har Har HarGary AlgateClassic
4 Jab 2200This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or
copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any
errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a
result of the e-mail transmission.?This year, instead of sending you a
Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF
Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".Lynn Matteson
<lynnmatt@jps.net>Sent by:
owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com09/12/2008 01:50 PMPlease respond
tokitfox-list@matronics.comTokitfox-list@matronics.comccSubjectRe:
Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator?Well, if you've got fuel tanks
in both wings, by banking the plane slightly, the fuel in the
upper wing tank will flow toward the outlet of that tank (if the outlet
is on the inner wall of the tank...that is, the side of the tank closest
to the center of the plane), and flow downward, helping to fill the
header tank. If one of your tanks empties faster than the other, this is
a good way to insure that the fuel in the most-full tank will flow into
the header tank. This is just a semi-emergency method of getting the
normally "unusable fuel" in the tank to flow into the header tank. You
can sometimes just fly with the nose slightly elevated and wings level
if you need to get those last few drops out of the tanks.I'm not
condoning these methods and by far the best thing to do is have an
adequate amount of fuel on board in the first place, but I've used these
methods to actually fill the header tank and make the low- fuel warning
light go out, because at the point that this light (in my
system anyway) goes out, I know that I have a full header tank...approx
1 gallon...and can fly for 15 more minutes, more than enough for flying
around the area where I fly, where there is usually fuel within that
amount of time. I would not push it this far in unfamiliar territory.
This is just a last chance effort to use the fuel that you have aboard.
I've practiced doing this, as I feel one should know his or her plane
well enough to know where the fuel is going in the system and why it's
going there, and how to make it go where it doesn't want to...within
reason.Lynn MattesonKitfox IV Speedster, taildraggerJabiru 2200, #2062,
593hrsSensenich 62x46flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair
direct-fire ignition system;also building a new pair of snow skisOn Dec
8, 2008, at 6:22 PM, patrick reilly wrote:> Lynn, Please explain the
"low wing method".
Thanks.>> Pat reilly> Mod 3582 Rebuild> Rockford, IL>> > From:
lynnmatt@jps.net> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel
indicator?> > Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 17:15:28 -0500> > To:
kitfox-list@matronics.com> >> >> > My two wing tanks feed the header
tank, which, when full, fills up> > the low fuel indicator tank and then
back up to the right wing tank.> > As long as I've got no yellow light
on, I'm good for at least15> > minutes flight. But when I know I'm low
on fuel, I'll glanceat the> > clear line between the low fuel indicator
tank and the right wing,> > and if it starts to show air instead of
fuel, then I've got aheads-> > up that the yellow (low fuel) light will
soon glow, indicating that> > I've got 15 minutes to find fuel or go
into the low-wing
methodof> > transferring fuel to the header tank. It's a lot less scary
thanit> > sounds!> >> > Lynn Matteson> > Kitfox IV Speedster,
taildragger> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 593hrs> > Sensenich 62x46> > flying
again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition> > system;>
> also building a new pair of snow skis> > do not archive> >> >> >> > On
Dec 8, 2008, at 7:21 AM, Bradley Webb wrote:> >> > >> > > BTW, I slip to
feed the header in the exact same way. But myfuel> > > system is> > >
designed to detect header feed and level, not so much fuel > level in> >
> the> > > tanks.> > >> > > Bradley> >> >> > >> As far as getting it
right down
to the bottom of the tank, > remember> > >> this is only for a sight
gauge, so not being able to visibly> read the> > >> very last drop of
fuel would be a good thing...you'd be > landing for a> > >> fill-up
before you got into an emergency situation (said the> guy who> > >>
flies with one wing low so the other can feed his headertank, > and> >
>> thereby make it to the next stop) : )> > >>>
>====================> >
=5F======> >> >> >>>
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Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Cold weather starting |
In the interior of Alaska, I pre-heated the engine one hour for every 10
degrees F below 20 degrees F. An example: if it was minus 20 F, I would
preheat the engine 4 hours before starting it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:11 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Cold weather starting
At our local EAA chapter (37) meeting last night a local A&P said we
really need to heat everything - not just heads or oil or cylinders but
EVERYTHING! - when we fire up the engine in cold weather. He singled
out the Rotax 900 series engines because of their very tight fit
compared to Continentals or Lycomings. He said that even if you turn
the engine over by hand at 10 F or lower temps, you will be scraping
some metal off and starting the end of the engine.
I have never worried about this. If it is not windy, I fly without
regard to the temperatures. Am I destroying my 912S by starting it
cold?
Randy - flew yesterday in teens and low 20's F - over Mount Rushmore
Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
Rick sez:
>Not sure where I heard or who told me or maybe I just read it, side
>slips with flaps was not a good idea.
Cessna prohibits slips with flaps extended on the 172 and similar
models, but this is specific to those airplanes. Piper Cherokees can
be slipped with full flaps with no difficulty and I had no problem
slipping my Model IV Kitfox with flaps extended.
>I just never did them with flaps for that reason. Maybe someone can
>refresh me on the why.
Light Cessnas exhibit some undesirable aerodynamics in that situation
because the flaps disturb the airflow over the tail surfaces.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Kitfox dead stick practice |
>edgraydallas wrote:
> > And, has anyone devised wing tip extensions to
> > increase the l/d of a Kitfox?
To which Mike replied:
>...I have seen removable wingtips done on a motorglider, one set for
>cruise, and one set for soaring...
This is a factory option on the Series 5 'foxes and later. The
outboard bay on each side could be built to be removable, giving you
the choice of 32 feet or 29 feet of wing (with some limits on maximum
gross weight, originally, when using the short wing). The shorter
version (without the removable extensions) was also found on the
Model IV Speedster.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Remote Compass Mounting Location for Dynon Unit |
CDE2fly@aol.com sez:
>I'm nearing the completion of my Model 7 and noticed that the Dynon
>D100 compass indication is not correct (i.e., indicates west when
>the aircraft is pointed south).
>The remote compass module is currently mounded behind the pilot seat
>adjacent to the baggage compartment in the same vertical plane as
>the D100 unit in the instrument panel.
As others have suggested, it's certainly possible to degauss the
tubing back there, but I think you'll have far better results if you
mount the remote compass in a wing tip. Even if your wings are
finished, it's pretty simple to snake the wires down the rear spar to
the wing tip and mount the compass on the end rib. Out there you'll
have no steel anywhere near the compass unit and it will have good
geometry with the panel unit. Make sure you align it with the panel
unit properly per the Dynon instructions.
Mike G.
N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster
Phoenix, AZ
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