Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: Re: CHT's (Lynn Matteson)
2. 03:45 AM - Re: skis (Lynn Matteson)
3. 04:59 AM - Snowmobile Skis (fox5flyer)
4. 05:03 AM - Snowmobile Skis (fox5flyer)
5. 05:13 AM - Snowmobile Skis (fox5flyer)
6. 05:21 AM - Snowboards for skis (fox5flyer)
7. 06:04 AM - Re: Snowmobile Skis (Lynn Matteson)
8. 06:11 AM - Re: Snowmobile Skis (Lynn Matteson)
9. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Guy Buchanan)
10. 07:58 AM - Re: Snowmobile Skis (akflyer)
11. 09:02 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (patrick reilly)
12. 09:28 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (Randy Daughenbaugh)
13. 09:42 AM - Re: Snowmobile Skis (patrick reilly)
14. 09:42 AM - Re: skis (Lynn Matteson)
15. 09:48 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (Lynn Matteson)
16. 10:05 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (patrick reilly)
17. 10:23 AM - Re: skis (akflyer)
18. 10:23 AM - Re: skis (patrick reilly)
19. 10:28 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (akflyer)
20. 10:30 AM - Snowmobile Skis (fox5flyer)
21. 10:35 AM - Re: Snowboards for skis (fox5flyer)
22. 11:03 AM - Snowmobile Ski Skin photos (fox5flyer)
23. 11:27 AM - Re: Slipping with FlapsRe: Slipping with Flaps (Joel Mapes)
24. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic (Noel Loveys)
25. 12:44 PM - Re: Slipping with Flaps - C172 (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
26. 12:58 PM - Re: Snowboards for skis (Noel Loveys)
27. 01:22 PM - Re: Snowboards for skis (Lynn Matteson)
28. 01:25 PM - Re: Re: CHT's (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
29. 01:45 PM - Re: skis (Lynn Matteson)
30. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: skis (Lynn Matteson)
31. 02:03 PM - Re: Snowmobile Ski Skin photos (Lynn Matteson)
32. 03:02 PM - Re: skis (Lynn Matteson)
33. 03:14 PM - Re: Snowmobile Ski Skin photos (Ron Liebmann)
34. 03:36 PM - water overflow bottle height (jridgway)
35. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Slipping with Flaps (Clint Bazzill)
36. 04:58 PM - Re: Snowboards for skis (Jim Crowder)
37. 07:42 PM - Re: water overflow bottle height (Weiss Richard)
38. 08:02 PM - Re: water overflow bottle height (Roger Lee)
39. 08:47 PM - Re: water overflow bottle height (James Shumaker)
Message 1
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In order to find where the Jabiru owner is placing his probe, you
only have to hide and watch and listen as he/she installs them....if
installing takes a few seconds and the shop is relatively quiet, they
are doing as you did, Gary, installing the probe onto the new plug
and screwing down so that the probe is against the head.
If, however, the job takes 10 minutes per plug and the air is foul
with cussing, the recalling of the plug's questionable ancestry, and
perhaps a mention of some prior incestuous fornication on the part of
the plug, then he/she is installing them the way the factory
suggests...removing the (%$#@*&?+*# ) washer, placing the probe onto
the plug, then replacing the (%$#@*&?+*# ) washer, and installing
the plug.
It's a WHOLE lot easier to drill and tap the heads once...and this is
a simple job with a hand held drill...cut the spark plug-sized
terminal off, replace with a #8 or #10 size terminal, and mount with
a socket head cap screw...DONE! You never have to touch them again.
You just have to get used to seeing a much higher reading on your CHT
readout...mine were about 75 higher, and probably a lot more
accurate than the ones sticking up in the "breeze".
I can't recall just where I saw the specifics of installing the spark
plug probes as per the factory, but they definitely tell you to take
the washer off....(%$#@*&?+*# ) them!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 20, 2008, at 11:48 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Hi Lynn
>
> You are right with your assumption. I was talking with a couple of
> guys with Jab engines who told me the probe should be sandwiched
> between the base of the plug (Hex section) and the washer.
>
> I had always sandwiched mine between the washer and the head so
> that it was reading directly from the head itself.
>
> Anyway, as you found out a few mm can make a huge difference.
>
> I just went thru my install manual to find out the right position
> as I assume the temps Jab quote are based on a very specific
> location. I haven't found it yet.
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 21/12/2008 02:36 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT's
>
>
>
> You're right, Jim...mine did read higher when I screwed them right
> down onto the head...by about 75. This is because when the
> thermocouple is sticking up into the air...(remember that the point
> where the reading is taken is right where the iron wire and the
> constantan wire come together...usually where the crimp on the spark
> plug terminal holds the wires together)...the reading is of the crimp
> of the terminal, influenced by the air passing by. If the terminal
> crimp is 3/8" from the area that sits under the spark plug, there is
> a loss of heat right there. Bend the terminal up into the air to
> allow it to clear the fins, and you've moved the "reading spot"
> further away from the head and into the airstream, which further
> cools the reading. When Gary positioned his terminal above the spark
> plug washer...if I'm reading his post correctly...he was moving the
> terminal/probe away from the head, and the washer then became an
> insulator of sorts...at least as much as a copper washer can be
> called an insulator. Granted, the terminal now contacts the spark
> plug, but think of where most of the metal in a spark plug
> resides...away from the head and in the airstream. This theory is all
> based on how I interpret Gary's explanation of where he moved the
> probes/terminals. If this isn't where he positioned his terminals/
> probes, I'll go sit in the corner with a pointy hat on my head.
>
> When this topic was first visited, and I followed the Australian
> gent's lead and attached my probes right on the heads, I also
> followed someone else's suggestion and took a CHT spark plug terminal/
> probe and installed it under my #1 cylinder to compare readings of
> the new placement and the old "between the plug and the plug washer"
> factory-suggested location, and indeed there was about a 75
> difference between the two, the "flat on the head, small electrical
> terminal" location being the hotter of the two. You might temporarily
> "borrow" a CHT probe from one of the other cylinders and then you'll
> be comparing readings taken from just the one cylinder instead of
> "identical" cylinders. Once you're satisfied, just swap it back.
>
> Can you fix him up with a hand-held radio for the time being?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
> > Gary and Lynn,
> >
> > As I remember Lynns temp actually read higher with his new
> > placement. Am I right about that? I tapped the small holes
> > between my plugs and plan to fasten my sensors there via machine
> > screws as Lynn did. I plan to leave one sensor as a standard plug
> > ring and mount if conventionally. I will look for differences and
> > even place it on an identical cylinder and then compare that way.
> >
> >
> >
> > My metal hangar is unheated and it has been soooo cooollldddd
> > here. A week ago it got to nearly 20 below zero. My fingers get
> > so cold that when I drop a washer or nut, I have great trouble
> > picking it up off of the concrete floor. Most days I still get
> > four hours or so of work in, but Im not too productive. My son
> > has now flown his RV8 four times. He has it in my hangar. He is
> > having radio problems. It is the only real problem he is having.
> > It is very noisy and cuts out on transmissions at times. He was
> > going up for a second time today and it quit transmitting
> > completely. He cut his gain settings way back from what the
> > factory had them at and that helped with the noise. We now suspect
> > he may have two problems with it. Before it always worked on the
> > ground. Now it doesnt transmit at all. It receives beautifully.
> > The problem is he doesnt want to work on the radio, he wants to
> fly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate@sandvik.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:13 PM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT's
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn FYI
> >
> > yesterday I thought, for interest sake, that I'd fit my CHT probes
> > above the spark plug washer to see if I got similar results as you.
> > (Previously I just had mine sandwiched below the plug washer and
> > the head.
> >
> > My Temps dropped by about 30 deg F!
> >
> > Previously my cruise CHT's were around 280-290 and now they're
> > around 260.
> >
> > Regards and Merry Christmas
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 20/12/2008 09:12 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> >
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > Kitfox-List: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We (in lower, Lower Michigan) got about 5-11" of new snow today,
> > (added to the 3-4" last week) but the damn stuff didn't quit until
> > flying hours...for me....were over for the day. Plus, the driveway
> > into the hangar was too deep to negotiate, and the plow guy was not
> > available. Tomorrow will/should be better for getting my ski-
> equipped
> > Kitfox out and enjoy the snow-flying. If this stuff would just come
> > 2-3" at a time, I could handle the driveway and parking (the car)
> > problems, but when it comes in "wholesale" amounts, it's just too
> > much...damn!
> > Oh well, I've got a fresh bottle of Baileys Irish Cream to help me
> > through the night, plenty of wood brought inside to feed the fire,
> > and plenty of projects (vacuum bagging and TIG-welding practicing to
> > be done for the next pair of skis) to keep me busy. And you guys
> have
> > got your Kitfox-building projects, so all is well. :)
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===========
> > --
> > Gifts!)
> > on
> > about
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > ===========
> > Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > ===========
> > WEB FORUMS -
> > ===========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/
> > Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
> > =================================== _-
> > =================================== _-
> > ==================================
>
>
> ===========================================================
Message 2
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Here's a shot of Wipaire's Air Glide ski that I saw at Oshkosh this
year. I'm following the basic shape of these, in designing my non-
repositionable skis. The lower picture is of Trickair ski. I though
that I would pattern mine with the wider front area, and with no rear
ski area directly behind the wheel...sort of like a cross between the
two types shown....like the Wipaire in footprint, but the other in
being a fiberglass-covered tubing frame, like I have built before. If
these pics don't come out in the order that I've placed then, the
Wipaire has its name on it, the Trickair is yellow, and the other two
pics are my skis...the one shot on snow is at Oshkosh. You can see
how far my present skis ride above the snow, creating lots of drag.
The next set will be MUCH lower to the ground.
From the skis that I've seen, the measurements that I've taken, and
calculations that I've made, 1 lb/sq. inch seems about right. I'm no
engineer, and I pretty much just "eyeball it" when it comes to
designing/copying something, but then again, I don't try to sell it
either. : )
My present skis have about 480 sq. in of area, with the wheel hole
area removed from the overall size. I plan on shooting for 660 sq.
in, according to a "note to self" dated 11-30-08, so I must have some
figures somewhere in all my notes that led me to that
conclusion. : ) I measured my CFI's 1500 Federal skis, and they came
out to 764 sq. inches for the two skis (64" x 6") That comes out to
about 2 lbs/sq. in. of loading.
I've come to the conclusion that about 15" for the front width, and
6" for the part that parallels the wheel will be what I'm shooting
for. In a 60" long ski this will give me about 630 sq. in. That's my
story and I'm stickin' to it...for now.
Oh, one more thing, Paul, I'm gonna go with the UHMW for the initial
test of the framework/pedestal-mounting system, then work on the
vacuum bagging/plywood bending, fiberglass-covering part later.
On Dec 21, 2008, at 1:22 AM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
(edited)
> Wouldn't adding length and flexibility improve flotation, reduce
> friction and greatly
> improve maneuverability?
>
> I know Lynn is building new skis and using vacuum bagging to build
> up the bases. If it
> were designed as skis for powder, I'd think you'd want a length to
> width ratio of
> about 25 with slightly wider front tips and a loading of about 1.0
> lbs/in=B2. So that
> would mean for a 1200 lb aircraft with two skis, each ski would be
> designed for 600 lb
> load and would have 600 in=B2. Given a length to width ratio of 25
> that would be mean
> each ski would be 4.9" wide and 120" long and be flexible enough so
> that the tips
> could flex up going over ruts and ridges with a loading center
> about 50" from the rear
> tip of the ski.
>
> Have skis of such dimensions been tried?
>
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
Message 3
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Actually, they worked fine, even in some fairly deep snow. The airplane
only weighed about 520 pounds, roughly the same as many typical
snowmobiles. The total weight of the skis was actually quite a bit
less than the tires and wheels. I'll see if I can dig up some photos.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
From: patrick reilly
To: kitfox matronics
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
Tom, That's not funny. Deke Morrisse in MI built his out of the
plastic skins from Artic Cat used on their snow machines. I bought a set
of skins and will have them on mine next year. They aren't real big so
you need packed snow I would imagine. How about that Deke? Those snow
machine skies you designed won't work in deep snow, or will they?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
> From: nahsikhs@elltel.net
> Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:39:50 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Lynn,
> At least you have skis so some fun to look foreword to. We have
plenty of snow in Central washing and more on the way. I wonder if I can
take the skis off my snowmobile and put them on my kitfox.
>
> Merry Christmas to all, card attached.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220208#220208
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/snow_trees_card_202.jpg
>
>
>
>
&====================
>
>
>
Message 4
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Note, topic change. The skins were 1/4 thick by 8" wide by about 4' long
and were intended for powder skis. You can get them on ebay for less than
$30 for a set. With 10" of new snow, unless I was in dire straits to go
somewhere, I think my airplane would just stay in the hangar. I had no
problem in six to eight inches of snow, but drew the line there.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
>
> Deke and Pat-
>
> How wide and long are these "skins"? What is the area of each ski (length
> in inches, multiplied by the width in inches)? Like Leonard Perry pointed
> out the other day, you need all the area you can get in soft powder snow
> (or words to that effect).
> Maybe skis could be added to that list of useless things in aviation:
> Fuel left back at the hangar.....altitude above you....runway behind
> you.....(can't think of the others)...and wider skis left on the drawing
> table.
>
> I had a heck of a time getting out of 10" of snow today, and earlier this
> year from about 9" of snow. Granted, my skis are wheel- penetration skis,
> and I have re-thought the design, but it seems to make sense to have all
> the area you can get...I think.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 10:34 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
>
>> Tom, That's not funny. Deke Morrisse in MI built his out of the plastic
>> skins from Artic Cat used on their snow machines. I bought a set of
>> skins and will have them on mine next year. They aren't real big so you
>> need packed snow I would imagine. How about that Deke? Those snow
>> machine skies you designed won't work in deep snow, or will they?
>>
>> Pat Reilly
>> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
>> Rockford, IL
>>
>> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
>> > From: nahsikhs@elltel.net
>> > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:39:50 -0800
>> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Lynn,
>> > At least you have skis so some fun to look foreword to. We have
>> plenty of snow in Central washing and more on the way. I wonder if I can
>> take the skis off my snowmobile and put them on my kitfox.
>> >
>> > Merry Christmas to all, card attached.
>> >
>> > --------
>> > Tom Jones
>> > Classic IV
>> > 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
>> > Ellensburg, WA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Read this topic online here:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220208#220208
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Attachments:
>> >
>> > http://forums.matronics.com//files/snow_trees_card_202.jpg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> &====================
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ============================================================ _-
>> ===========================================================
>
>
>
Message 5
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That's quite an absolute statement! No, I wouldn't have tried them in 12"
snow, but there are a lot of different types of snow between that and ice.
At one time there were people who said "If man were meant to fly, he'd have
wings".
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:13 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
>
> There is NO WAY the skis from a sled, unless it was from an old twin track
> alpine (and that would be marginal), will hold the KF up on anything but
> very hard packed snow or ice. They wont even hold up my sled in powder.
> If you try landing in 12" of powder you are going straight to he bottom.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220364#220364
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
Something I've mulled over to build for my S5 are skis built on a
platform of snowboard skis. If you take a look at them, they're light,
very strong, a lot of surface area, already have the curves built into
them, and can be purchased used for a reasonable price. All they would
need is a backbone for mounting on the axle, grab handles, and the
hardware. I'm still looking around for a matching pair to tinker with.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Snowmobile Skis |
We've got about 10" right now, as of yesterday when I flew, and I'd
draw a dotted line at about that height, maybe making it a solid line
at 12" or more. I hope the new snow sticks around until I get new
skis built, or I'll have to travel much further to test them. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:03 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> Note, topic change. The skins were 1/4 thick by 8" wide by about
> 4' long and were intended for powder skis. You can get them on
> ebay for less than $30 for a set. With 10" of new snow, unless I
> was in dire straits to go somewhere, I think my airplane would just
> stay in the hangar. I had no problem in six to eight inches of
> snow, but drew the line there.
> Deke Morisse
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Snowmobile Skis |
This looks like a perfect time to throw in this that I found during
my Google search for "airplane skis" :
*********************
The National Research Council of Canada (NRC) report MM-225, Aircraft
Ski Research in Canada, discusses the comprehensive research
programme aimed at the development of improved skis for aircraft and
provides information about the use of skis. The following paragraph
paraphrases relevant portions of the publication:
Early in the tests, it was found that sliding resistance and adhesion
were far more dependent upon snow conditions than on the design of
the ski. Further, the skiing quality of the snow changed continually
and it was not unusual to observe marked changes taking place in less
than an hour. The publication notes that there are times when the
sliding resistance of aircraft skis is so great that it is impossible
to reach flying speed. It was found that the sliding resistance of a
ski could be divided into (a) the resistance component due to
compacting the snow while forming the ski track, analogous to form
drag in aerodynamics, and (b) the resistance component due to
friction. In the case of dry snow, the ski resistance is considered
to be made up of (a) solid friction, most of which occurs near the
toe of the ski, (b) viscous drag due to shearing in the very thin
film of water between the ski and the areas of contact, and (c) drag
due to surface tension forces acting at the perimeters of the water
drops in contact with the ski bottom. In very wet snow, the entire
bottom of the ski is wet and most of the resistance is due to viscous
drag, which varies as the square of the speed. All three components
of ski friction -- solid friction, viscous drag, and surface tension
drag -- increase with an increase in contact between the ski and snow
and are therefore greater for soft snow than for hard snow.
********************
Sorry I can't credit who wrote it, or where I found it, as I was just
searching and grabbing whatever seemed to be of interest to me.
Perhaps if I knew where to find the NRC report MM-225.....
I think this makes it sound like any ski is the right ski of the
conditions for it are right, or very wrong if the conditions are wrong.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 21, 2008, at 8:12 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> That's quite an absolute statement! No, I wouldn't have tried them
> in 12" snow, but there are a lot of different types of snow between
> that and ice. At one time there were people who said "If man were
> meant to fly, he'd have wings".
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 11:13 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
>
>
>>
>> There is NO WAY the skis from a sled, unless it was from an old
>> twin track alpine (and that would be marginal), will hold the KF
>> up on anything but very hard packed snow or ice. They wont even
>> hold up my sled in powder. If you try landing in 12" of powder you
>> are going straight to he bottom.
>>
>> --------
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>> Leonard Perry
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
At 11:26 PM 12/20/2008, you wrote:
>Seemed like a good alternative to lots of spiraling where you could
>get too slow and spin if you weren't careful. Anyone else ever do this?
Yeah, but it's really uncomfortable holding the doors open with your
feet in a Kitfox. ;-)
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade
100% and flying thanks mostly to Bob Ducar
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Snowmobile Skis |
I can't go into theory on why one works and why one doesn't (if you get an engineer
involved you just end up with a SWAG) All my knowledge is based on real
life experience, in many different planes, with many different ski manufactures
and designs. I can say, without hesitation, that I will take a larger ski any
day of the week over a smaller ski, for deep snow. On ice, or hard pack it
does not matter, you could get away with tiny skis, but you veer off just a tad
and hit the powder and you are gonna have lots of time to think about building
bigger skis as you strap on your snow shoes and spend half a day packing down
a runway to get yourself back outa some remote area you dropped into and were
not equipped to deal with.
A Buddy put his PA12 on its back and we had to form a rescue party to go get him
and the plane. One PA12 was on Anderson board skis (plywood skis with Teflon
bottoms that are quite large), one was on airglass 2000's (nice fiberglass ski
but smaller than the Anderson's) and a 180 on little bitty federal skis. Snow
was only about 3' deep and the board skis did AWESOME, the Airglass performed
well but not quite as good, and the 180 was a major PITA. I spend half the
time pushing and pulling on the tail of the 180 trying to get him turned around
at the end of the strip... then he could not build flying speed to get off
so we ran the 12 up and down to try and pack it. Didnt work because of the large
surface area it just stayed on top and did not really compress the snow.
At the end of the day we ended packing the runway on snowshoes.
As far as snowmobile ski's or "ski skins" The same problem... on a snowmachine,
in deep powder the skis support nothing as they are in the air. The thing rides
on the track and belly pan when you stop. The skis are just for turning.
I have tried wide parabolic skis (lotsa $) and they still dont help too much
on a snowmachine. By your admittance that you would not take them into 12" of
snow pretty much backs up what I said. I know these are experimental, but I
would hate for someone to go wad up a perfectly good plane just because they
thought the snowmachine skis would work...
Check out supercub.org The hot ticket for skis are a set of airglass that you
put on new bottoms 2" wider than the ski all the way around, why? because the
increased flotation is worth alot more than a little bit of drag. Friction on
top of the snow is a whole lot less than having the ski buried , the prop hitting
snow, and the gear legs dragging through the snow.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220395#220395
Message 11
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
Deke=2C I like the snowboard idea. I like it alot.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: fox5flyer@idealwifi.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-L
ist: Snowboards for skisDate: Sun=2C 21 Dec 2008 08:20:51 -0500
Something I've mulled over to build for my S5 are skis built on a platform
of snowboard skis. If you take a look at them=2C they're light=2C very str
ong=2C a lot of surface area=2C already have the curves built into them=2C
and can be purchased used for a reasonable price. All they would need is a
backbone for mounting on the axle=2C grab handles=2C and the hardware. I'
m still looking around for a matching pair to tinker with.
Deke MorisseMikado MichiganS5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT"The aim of an argument or
discussion should not be victory=2C but progress."- Joseph Joubert
Message 12
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
Deke,
I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a few used
Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with the entire
board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy to put on and I
think would still provide a lot of floatation behind the axel.
The one thing I don't like with this approach is the good boards have really
sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding, but I think slightly
turned up edges may be desirable for ktifox skis.
Randy
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:21 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Something I've mulled over to build for my S5 are skis built on a platform
of snowboard skis. If you take a look at them, they're light, very strong,
a lot of surface area, already have the curves built into them, and can be
purchased used for a reasonable price. All they would need is a backbone
for mounting on the axle, grab handles, and the hardware. I'm still looking
around for a matching pair to tinker with.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Message 13
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Deke=2C Jeesss=2C I guess I opened up a can of worms. It is obvious that yo
ur snow machine skis won't handle deep powder by looking at them. That is w
hy I asked what your experience with them was. Anyway keep us posted on the
snowboard to ski project. I'm going to keep my eye out for a matched pair.
too.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: fox5flyer@idealwifi.netTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-L
ist: Snowmobile SkisDate: Sun=2C 21 Dec 2008 07:58:11 -0500
Actually=2C they worked fine=2C even in some fairly deep snow. The airplan
e only weighed about 520 pounds=2C roughly the same as many typical snowmob
iles. The total weight of the skis was actually quite a bit less than the
tires and wheels. I'll see if I can dig up some photos.
Deke MorisseMikado MichiganS5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT"The aim of an argument or
discussion should not be victory=2C but progress."- Joseph Joubert
From: patrick reilly
Sent: Saturday=2C December 20=2C 2008 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
Tom=2C That's not funny. Deke Morrisse in MI built his out of the plastic s
kins from Artic Cat used on their snow machines. I bought a set of skins an
d will have them on mine next year. They aren't real big so you need packed
snow I would imagine. How about that Deke? Those snow machine skies you de
signed won't work in deep snow=2C or will they? Pat ReillyMod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off to
pic> From: nahsikhs@elltel.net> Date: Fri=2C 19 Dec 2008 15:39:50 -0800> To
s" <nahsikhs@elltel.net>> > Lynn=2C> At least you have skis so some fun to
look foreword to. We have plenty of snow in Central washing and more on the
way. I wonder if I can take the skis off my snowmobile and put them on my
kitfox.> > Merry Christmas to all=2C card attached.> > --------> Tom Jones>
Classic IV> 503 Rotax=2C 72 inch Two blade Warp> Ellensburg=2C WA> > > > >
Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?
p=220208#220208> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//fi
les/snow_trees_card_202.jpg> > > > &=============
========> > >
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
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I just found some figures for ski sizes that I had measured a while
back. This first is a Cub ski, measuring 8" x 48" for 768 sq. in for
the two skis. The second is a Federal ski that measured 8" x 63" for
1008 sq. inches for the two skis. I didn't happen to notice an I.D.
plate on the Federal ski or I would have written it down. I'm
assuming that if the Federals belonging to my CFI were a 1500's, and
measured 6" x 63", then the 8" x 63" would be for a heavier plane.
I offer this info for those that are contemplating building skis for
their Kitfox. As I am doing, you could get a rough idea of how big
the skis have to be, but it would be just that...ROUGH.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Snowboards for skis |
What you're proposing, Randy, is basically how the Wipaire skis are
designed. I have a picture of them, and it looks like the edges are
turned up slightly. I also believe that's how Leonard made the
bottoms that he attached to his skis.
I'm going to attach side "rails" onto my new ski bottoms, such that
they bend up at the edges, and act like spray rails on a boat.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> Deke,
>
> I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a
> few used Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
>
>
> I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with the
> entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy
> to put on and I think would still provide a lot of floatation
> behind the axel.
>
>
> The one thing I dont like with this approach is the good boards
> have really sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding,
> but I think slightly turned up edges may be desirable for ktifox skis.
>
>
> Randy
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
Randy=2C Deke=2C And Lynn=2C How about attaching "spray rails" to the edges
of the board made out of 1/8" or so aluminum. And if you don't cut out the
board completely behind the wheel=2C attach a bent up piece behind the whe
el to eliminate the cheese cutter effect.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Snowboard
s for skis> Date: Sun=2C 21 Dec 2008 12:48:53 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matron
et>> > What you're proposing=2C Randy=2C is basically how the Wipaire skis
are > designed. I have a picture of them=2C and it looks like the edges are
> turned up slightly. I also believe that's how Leonard made the > bottoms
that he attached to his skis.> I'm going to attach side "rails" onto my ne
w ski bottoms=2C such that > they bend up at the edges=2C and act like spra
y rails on a boat.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Ja
biru 2200=2C #2062=2C 596+ hrs> Sensenich 62x46> flying again after rebuild
=2C and new Electroair direct-fire ignition > system=3B> also building a ne
w pair of snow skis> > > > > On Dec 21=2C 2008=2C at 12:26 PM=2C Randy Daug
henbaugh wrote:> > > Deke=2C> >> > I have been toying with that idea for a
year or so. Even gone to a > > few used Ski sales looking for a pair of mat
ching boards.> >> >> >> > I have decided that I want to build wheel penetra
tion skis with the > > entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would ma
ke them easy > > to put on and I think would still provide a lot of floatat
ion > > behind the axel.> >> >> >> > The one thing I don=92t like with this
approach is the good boards > > have really sharp edges on the sides. Bett
er for snow boarding=2C > > but I think slightly turned up edges may be des
========================> _
=========> > >
Message 17
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The original Avid ski's are about 10" X 59". You can go from there.
I have never seen a set of skis for a cub that were only 48" long. My guess would
be they are federals, off an old J3 or something. No modern skis are that
small ( atleast no one up here is flying any that small) I would say alot depends
on the local conditions you would be flying. If your average snow depth
is 10" and its hard pack, stay small. If your landing in areas with 4' of powder,
go big or stay home lol...
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220410#220410
Message 18
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Lynn=2C Are you going to have keels on the bottom similar to the yellow ski
? Also=2C I can't see from the picture=2C how do the skis attach to the axl
e? Do they screw to both ends=2C or just the inboard end of the axle? The w
hite one doesn't seem to have any mount for the outboard end of the axle.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: skis> Dat
e: Sun=2C 21 Dec 2008 06:38:06 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Here
's a shot of Wipaire's Air Glide ski that I saw at Oshkosh this > year. I'm
following the basic shape of these=2C in designing my non- > repositionabl
e skis. The lower picture is of Trickair ski. I though > that I would patte
rn mine with the wider front area=2C and with no rear > ski area directly b
ehind the wheel...sort of like a cross between the > two types shown....lik
e the Wipaire in footprint=2C but the other in > being a fiberglass-covered
tubing frame=2C like I have built before. If > these pics don't come out i
n the order that I've placed then=2C the > Wipaire has its name on it=2C th
e Trickair is yellow=2C and the other two > pics are my skis...the one shot
on snow is at Oshkosh. You can see > how far my present skis ride above th
e snow=2C creating lots of drag. > The next set will be MUCH lower to the g
round.> > From the skis that I've seen=2C the measurements that I've taken
=2C and > calculations that I've made=2C 1 lb/sq. inch seems about right. I
'm no > engineer=2C and I pretty much just "eyeball it" when it comes to >
designing/copying something=2C but then again=2C I don't try to sell it > e
ither. : )> > My present skis have about 480 sq. in of area=2C with the whe
el hole > area removed from the overall size. I plan on shooting for 660 sq
. > in=2C according to a "note to self" dated 11-30-08=2C so I must have so
me > figures somewhere in all my notes that led me to that > conclusion. :
) I measured my CFI's 1500 Federal skis=2C and they came > out to 764 sq. i
nches for the two skis (64" x 6") That comes out to > about 2 lbs/sq. in. o
f loading.> > I've come to the conclusion that about 15" for the front widt
h=2C and > 6" for the part that parallels the wheel will be what I'm shooti
ng > for. In a 60" long ski this will give me about 630 sq. in. That's my >
story and I'm stickin' to it...for now.> > Oh=2C one more thing=2C Paul=2C
I'm gonna go with the UHMW for the initial > test of the framework/pedesta
l-mounting system=2C then work on the > vacuum bagging/plywood bending=2C f
iberglass-covering part later.> > >
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Snowboards for skis |
http://www.airglas.com/
gives lots of pics of some skis that work pretty darn well.
My skis were made by a fellow that used to work at airglas. He made 5 sets so
I am told of the size I have. It would not take much to pop a mold off and lay
some up, or I may be able to track him down and see if he would make another
run.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220412#220412
Message 20
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I thought I said they worked fine, but maybe I imagined it? I didn't
build them for 3' of snow, nor did I build my airplane to fly 600 miles
per hour or have a 2000lb useful load. I guess what I'm trying to say
is that I built them for a model 2 with a pretty good idea of their
limitations and I used them with those limitations in mind. I never had
a problem over three winters and lots of snow time. I'm still kicking
myself for letting them go with the airplane when I sold it.
Naysaying doesn't help the experimental movement at all.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Quote: "As far as snowmobile ski's or "ski skins" The same problem...
on a snowmachine, in deep powder the skis support nothing as they are in
the air. The thing rides on the track and belly pan when you stop. The
skis are just for turning. I have tried wide parabolic skis (lotsa $)
and they still dont help too much on a snowmachine. By your admittance
that you would not take them into 12" of snow pretty much backs up what
I said. I know these are experimental, but I would hate for someone to
go wad up a perfectly good plane just because they thought the
snowmachine skis would work..."
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Snowboards for skis |
I think they would work just fine, but not for 18 feet of fresh powder.
I'm not sure that there is any real importance in the turned up edges.
They're plenty strong as they are. The would just need a good backbone,
but that's easy. Just be aware of their limitations. Go for it and
keep us in the loop.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy Daughenbaugh
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Deke,
I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a
few used Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with the
entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy to put
on and I think would still provide a lot of floatation behind the axel.
The one thing I don't like with this approach is the good boards have
really sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding, but I think
slightly turned up edges may be desirable for ktifox skis.
Randy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 6:21 AM
To: Kitfox List
Subject: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Something I've mulled over to build for my S5 are skis built on a
platform of snowboard skis. If you take a look at them, they're light,
very strong, a lot of surface area, already have the curves built into
them, and can be purchased used for a reasonable price. All they would
need is a backbone for mounting on the axle, grab handles, and the
hardware. I'm still looking around for a matching pair to tinker with.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Snowmobile Ski Skin photos |
These are fairly low resolution taken a bunch of years ago, but will
give an idea how the skis were put together. As I recall, I had about
$90 in them.
Even if one doesn't want to go with something like these, I'm sure they
will lead to inspirations for other ideas.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with FlapsRe: Slipping with Flaps |
Many years ago I had a '59 straight-tail 172 with 145hp=2C fixed pitch and
40 degree Johnson bar flaps. The warning against slips with full flaps is g
ood advice. Trust me.
8 inches of snow here in Puget Sound country=2C where nobody has skis for t
heir plane. At least my fuselage is back from the welder and for the first
time in over a year has gear underneath again.
Merry Christmas to all=2CJoel Model 5 912S
do not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Life on your PC is safer=2C easier=2C and more enjoyable with Windows Vista
=AE.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic |
With skis in powder snow bigger is better. There is obviously a limit to
diminishing returns. When the skis get too heavy and they start to reduce
airspeed. Another factor is that the skis like to track straight so larger
skis will be harder to turn the plane in deep snow. Of course larger skis
also make ground looping a bit more difficult.
All a matter of compromise. If you have lots of large lakes or open fields
and thousands of powder snow then fit the biggest thing you can fly. If you
are dropping into paved run3ways and occasionally short fields where turning
around may be a problem and if you see mostly packed snow then go for
smaller penetration skis.
Just my 0.02
BTW our friend Dave Fisher has a new video on youtube. It's about fifteen
minutes long so you will want a high speed connection but it is easy to see
the depth to which a ski will sink. He's pretty good as getting the plane
to turn around but it's not nearly as fast turning as it was a couple of
years ago. I'll bet he has new longer skis.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 12:44 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
There is NO WAY the skis from a sled, unless it was from an old twin track
alpine (and that would be marginal), will hold the KF up on anything but
very hard packed snow or ice. They wont even hold up my sled in powder. If
you try landing in 12" of powder you are going straight to he bottom.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220364#220364
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps - C172 |
On Sun, December 21, 2008 11:26 am, Joel Mapes wrote:
>
> Many years ago I had a '59 straight-tail 172 with 145hp, fixed pitch and 40 degree
> Johnson bar flaps. The warning against slips with full flaps is good advice.
Trust me.
Would you care to elaborate?
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 26
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
Before you start doing anything with aluminium, especially in direct contact
with snow, consider the fact that bare aluminium will ice up like nothing
you can imagine... even under the coldest driest conditions.
The very best thing to have in contact with the snow is Teflon plastic...
My father built several komitiks (sleighs) to pull behind his snowmobile.
The best thing he found for running surfaces was Krazy Karpet. Most
hospitals have thousands of them turned in by the parents of injured
children for free. They are easy to attach using strips of Teflon plastic
and screws and they are easy to replace.... and there is no way you will
ever get them to ice up! KrazyKarpet comes in different colours so if you
want you can colour code the year you last recovered the base of your skis.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Randy, Deke, And Lynn, How about attaching "spray rails" to the edges of the
board made out of 1/8" or so aluminum. And if you don't cut out the board
completely behind the wheel, attach a bent up piece behind the wheel to
eliminate the cheese cutter effect.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:48:53 -0500
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> What you're proposing, Randy, is basically how the Wipaire skis are
> designed. I have a picture of them, and it looks like the edges are
> turned up slightly. I also believe that's how Leonard made the
> bottoms that he attached to his skis.
> I'm going to attach side "rails" onto my new ski bottoms, such that
> they bend up at the edges, and act like spray rails on a boat.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>
> > Deke,
> >
> > I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a
> > few used Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with the
> > entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy
> > to put on and I think would still provide a lot of floatation
> > behind the axel.
> >
> >
> >
> > The one thing I don't like with this approach is the good boards
> > have really sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding,
> > but I think slightly turned up edges may be desirable for ktifox skis.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
&g===================
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Snowboards for skis |
What is the square inch area of these boards that you propose using,
Pat and Deke?
When I was taxiing the day before yesterday, I watched the snow
kicked up by the tire pile up on the tail of my ski, so I'm just not
sure whether the cheese cutter effect is doing the "damage" back
there or if it's the wheel itself. In either case, having no ski back
there keeps the snow from accumulating there. And of course if you go
without the wheel, you eliminate the problem altogether.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 21, 2008, at 1:04 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Randy, Deke, And Lynn, How about attaching "spray rails" to the
> edges of the board made out of 1/8" or so aluminum. And if you
> don't cut out the board completely behind the wheel, attach a bent
> up piece behind the wheel to eliminate the cheese cutter effect.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
> > From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
> > Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:48:53 -0500
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > What you're proposing, Randy, is basically how the Wipaire skis are
> > designed. I have a picture of them, and it looks like the edges are
> > turned up slightly. I also believe that's how Leonard made the
> > bottoms that he attached to his skis.
> > I'm going to attach side "rails" onto my new ski bottoms, such that
> > they bend up at the edges, and act like spray rails on a boat.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
> >
> > > Deke,
> > >
> > > I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a
> > > few used Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with
> the
> > > entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy
> > > to put on and I think would still provide a lot of floatation
> > > behind the axel.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The one thing I dont like with this approach is the good boards
> > > have really sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding,
> > > but I think slightly turned up edges may be desirable for
> ktifox skis.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Randy
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
> &g===================
> >
> >
> >
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> ===========================================================
Message 28
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Thanx Lynn,
Succinct and explanatory - that's why I love your posts!
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
21/12/2008 09:20 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list@matronics.com
To
kitfox-list@matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT's
In order to find where the Jabiru owner is placing his probe, you
only have to hide and watch and listen as he/she installs them....if
installing takes a few seconds and the shop is relatively quiet, they
are doing as you did, Gary, installing the probe onto the new plug
and screwing down so that the probe is against the head.
If, however, the job takes 10 minutes per plug and the air is foul
with cussing, the recalling of the plug's questionable ancestry, and
perhaps a mention of some prior incestuous fornication on the part of
the plug, then he/she is installing them the way the factory
suggests...removing the (%$#@*&?+*# ) washer, placing the probe onto
the plug, then replacing the (%$#@*&?+*# ) washer, and installing
the plug.
It's a WHOLE lot easier to drill and tap the heads once...and this is
a simple job with a hand held drill...cut the spark plug-sized
terminal off, replace with a #8 or #10 size terminal, and mount with
a socket head cap screw...DONE! You never have to touch them again.
You just have to get used to seeing a much higher reading on your CHT
readout...mine were about 75=B0 higher, and probably a lot more
accurate than the ones sticking up in the "breeze".
I can't recall just where I saw the specifics of installing the spark
plug probes as per the factory, but they definitely tell you to take
the washer off....(%$#@*&?+*# ) them!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 20, 2008, at 11:48 PM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Hi Lynn
>
> You are right with your assumption. I was talking with a couple of
> guys with Jab engines who told me the probe should be sandwiched
> between the base of the plug (Hex section) and the washer.
>
> I had always sandwiched mine between the washer and the head so
> that it was reading directly from the head itself.
>
> Anyway, as you found out a few mm can make a huge difference.
>
> I just went thru my install manual to find out the right position
> as I assume the temps Jab quote are based on a very specific
> location. I haven't found it yet.
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> 21/12/2008 02:36 AM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list@matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT's
>
>
>
> You're right, Jim...mine did read higher when I screwed them right
> down onto the head...by about 75=B0. This is because when the
> thermocouple is sticking up into the air...(remember that the point
> where the reading is taken is right where the iron wire and the
> constantan wire come together...usually where the crimp on the spark
> plug terminal holds the wires together)...the reading is of the crimp
> of the terminal, influenced by the air passing by. If the terminal
> crimp is 3/8" from the area that sits under the spark plug, there is
> a loss of heat right there. Bend the terminal up into the air to
> allow it to clear the fins, and you've moved the "reading spot"
> further away from the head and into the airstream, which further
> cools the reading. When Gary positioned his terminal above the spark
> plug washer...if I'm reading his post correctly...he was moving the
> terminal/probe away from the head, and the washer then became an
> insulator of sorts...at least as much as a copper washer can be
> called an insulator. Granted, the terminal now contacts the spark
> plug, but think of where most of the metal in a spark plug
> resides...away from the head and in the airstream. This theory is all
> based on how I interpret Gary's explanation of where he moved the
> probes/terminals. If this isn't where he positioned his terminals/
> probes, I'll go sit in the corner with a pointy hat on my head.
>
> When this topic was first visited, and I followed the Australian
> gent's lead and attached my probes right on the heads, I also
> followed someone else's suggestion and took a CHT spark plug terminal/
> probe and installed it under my #1 cylinder to compare readings of
> the new placement and the old "between the plug and the plug washer"
> factory-suggested location, and indeed there was about a 75=B0
> difference between the two, the "flat on the head, small electrical
> terminal" location being the hotter of the two. You might temporarily
> "borrow" a CHT probe from one of the other cylinders and then you'll
> be comparing readings taken from just the one cylinder instead of
> "identical" cylinders. Once you're satisfied, just swap it back.
>
> Can you fix him up with a hand-held radio for the time being?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
> On Dec 20, 2008, at 12:00 AM, Jim Crowder wrote:
>
> > Gary and Lynn,
> >
> > As I remember Lynn?s temp actually read higher with his new
> > placement. Am I right about that? I tapped the small holes
> > between my plugs and plan to fasten my sensors there via machine
> > screws as Lynn did. I plan to leave one sensor as a standard plug
> > ring and mount if conventionally. I will look for differences and
> > even place it on an identical cylinder and then compare that way.
> >
> >
> >
> > My metal hangar is unheated and it has been soooo cooollldddd
> > here. A week ago it got to nearly 20 below zero. My fingers get
> > so cold that when I drop a washer or nut, I have great trouble
> > picking it up off of the concrete floor. Most days I still get
> > four hours or so of work in, but I?m not too productive. My son
> > has now flown his RV8 four times. He has it in my hangar. He is
> > having radio problems. It is the only real problem he is having.
> > It is very noisy and cuts out on transmissions at times. He was
> > going up for a second time today and it quit transmitting
> > completely. He cut his gain settings way back from what the
> > factory had them at and that helped with the noise. We now suspect
> > he may have two problems with it. Before it always worked on the
> > ground. Now it doesn?t transmit at all. It receives beautifully.
> > The problem is he doesn?t want to work on the radio, he wants to
> fly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim Crowder
> >
> >
> >
> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate@sandvik.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 5:13 PM
> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT's
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn FYI
> >
> > yesterday I thought, for interest sake, that I'd fit my CHT probes
> > above the spark plug washer to see if I got similar results as you.
> > (Previously I just had mine sandwiched below the plug washer and
> > the head.
> >
> > My Temps dropped by about 30 deg F!
> >
> > Previously my cruise CHT's were around 280-290 and now they're
> > around 260.
> >
> > Regards and Merry Christmas
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>
> >
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> > 20/12/2008 09:12 AM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > To
> >
> > kitfox-list@matronics.com
> >
> > cc
> >
> > Subject
> >
> > Kitfox-List: Lovely snow...damned snow! Off topic
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We (in lower, Lower Michigan) got about 5-11" of new snow today,
> > (added to the 3-4" last week) but the damn stuff didn't quit until
> > flying hours...for me....were over for the day. Plus, the driveway
> > into the hangar was too deep to negotiate, and the plow guy was not
> > available. Tomorrow will/should be better for getting my ski-
> equipped
> > Kitfox out and enjoy the snow-flying. If this stuff would just come
> > 2-3" at a time, I could handle the driveway and parking (the car)
> > problems, but when it comes in "wholesale" amounts, it's just too
> > much...damn!
> > Oh well, I've got a fresh bottle of Baileys Irish Cream to help me
> > through the night, plenty of wood brought inside to feed the fire,
> > and plenty of projects (vacuum bagging and TIG-welding practicing to
> > be done for the next pair of skis) to keep me busy. And you guys
> have
> > got your Kitfox-building projects, so all is well. :)
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> > Sensenich 62x46
> > flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> > system;
> > also building a new pair of snow skis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ===========
> > --
> > Gifts!)
> > on
> > about
> > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> > ===========
> > Forum -
> > FAQ,
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> > ===========
> > WEB FORUMS -
> > ===========
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/
> > Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
> > =======================
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>
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> ========================
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Message 29
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Those "keels", although they act like keels are actually wear bars,
that take the brunt of the wear that would otherwise occur if the
tire should get low, or if you land hard on pavement. Yes, I'm going
to have them on mine. Before I make the plywood and fiberglass
bottoms, I'm going to use UHMW over the whole bottom, and then attach
the wear bars to them. I haven't thought it completely through yet,
but I might sandwich my "spray rails" between the bottom and the wear
bars.
I'll post a picture or two of my pedestal mount, as far along as it
is, in a little while.
The yellow skis (Trickair) attach to a stub axle that is bolted to
the inboard side of the Grove landing gear. The white one...the
Wipaire...attaches to the landing gear by (I think) either bolted on,
or welded on, brackets. Go to http://www.trickair.com/ to see
their site and maybe watch the video of their skis in action. I
haven't watched it, because my computer modem is too slow. Also, look
again at the picture of the yellow ski. Just to the left of the ski,
is the tubing framework that the ski is built around. It is black and
hard to pick out because it blends in with the display rack, which is
also black.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 21, 2008, at 1:22 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Are you going to have keels on the bottom similar to the
> yellow ski? Also, I can't see from the picture, how do the skis
> attach to the axle? Do they screw to both ends, or just the inboard
> end of the axle? The white one doesn't seem to have any mount for
> the outboard end of the axle.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
Message 30
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The 48" skis were on a Cub, but whether they were original or not, I
didn't ask. They are about 3/4" plywood for the bottom, which has
very little curve-up, another 3/4" shorter board for stiffening, and
used a stamped sheet metal tapered tubular pedestal that slipped over
the axle, in place of the wheel. When I flew over to where this Cub
was visiting, he had been on the ground for some time, and when he
tried to leave, we had to rock his wings to break him loose, as he
had been frozen down. I always stand on the tips of my skis before I
get into the plane. Of course, his are plywood, and mine are UHMW, so
his will stick before mine, especially if he hasn't waxed
them....I've never waxed mine, and maybe I should....might help.
If we EVER get 4' of anything down here, I'm in front of the
fire...screw the flying!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 21, 2008, at 1:23 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
> The original Avid ski's are about 10" X 59". You can go from there.
>
> I have never seen a set of skis for a cub that were only 48" long.
> My guess would be they are federals, off an old J3 or something.
> No modern skis are that small ( atleast no one up here is flying
> any that small) I would say alot depends on the local conditions
> you would be flying. If your average snow depth is 10" and its
> hard pack, stay small. If your landing in areas with 4' of powder,
> go big or stay home lol...
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis
> takes over.
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220410#220410
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Snowmobile Ski Skin photos |
But, Deke, where are the wheels? : )
You sent me these pics a couple of years ago, and indeed they
inspired me to build....a bit different, but build just the same.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 21, 2008, at 2:02 PM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
> These are fairly low resolution taken a bunch of years ago, but
> will give an idea how the skis were put together. As I recall, I
> had about $90 in them.
> Even if one doesn't want to go with something like these, I'm sure
> they will lead to inspirations for other ideas.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
Message 32
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Pat-
Here are the pictures of the pedestal parts that I've built so far,
and a mockup of the proposed ski using 3/4" wood where 4130 round
tubing and flat plate will be. As you can see, the 4 holes in the
"stub axle" will bolt up to the back side of the Grove gear. If I
choose to leave this stub axle in place all year long...with suitable
fairing made of fiberglass....installation will be simply sliding the
ski onto the axle and securing the nut and cotter pin, and attaching
all the safety cables, etc., ...and praying for snow.
On Dec 21, 2008, at 1:22 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, Are you going to have keels on the bottom similar to the
> yellow ski? Also, I can't see from the picture, how do the skis
> attach to the axle? Do they screw to both ends, or just the inboard
> end of the axle? The white one doesn't seem to have any mount for
> the outboard end of the axle.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Snowmobile Ski Skin photos |
Hey there Deke,
You are one great designer/fabricator for sure. Your ski's look super!
Ron Schaumburg 55KF
----- Original Message -----
From: fox5flyer
To: Kitfox List
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:02 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Snowmobile Ski Skin photos
These are fairly low resolution taken a bunch of years ago, but will
give an idea how the skis were put together. As I recall, I had about
$90 in them.
Even if one doesn't want to go with something like these, I'm sure
they will lead to inspirations for other ideas.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
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| Subject: | water overflow bottle height |
I understand from the ROTAX documentation that the water overflow bottle can be
up to 10 inches below the radiator cap. Won't this allow the air (volume=10 inches
x inner hose diameter) in the overflow line enter the engine before it actually
brings up any water? Is this small amount of air OK? Does this air get
purged out with water during the cooling recovery cycle? I am not using a separate
expansion tank.
Thanks..Jack
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220456#220456
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Slipping with Flaps |
HOW IN THE WORLD DO YOU SPIN OUT OF A SLIP?
CLINT
> Date: Sun=2C 21 Dec 2008 06:59:51 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> F
rom: bnn@nethere.com> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Slipping with Flaps> >
26 PM 12/20/2008=2C you wrote:> >Seemed like a good alternative to lots of
spiraling where you could > >get too slow and spin if you weren't careful.
Anyone else ever do this?> > Yeah=2C but it's really uncomfortable holding
the doors open with your > feet in a Kitfox. =3B-)> > > Guy Buchanan> San D
iego=2C CA> K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade> 100% and flying thanks m
====> > >
Message 36
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| Subject: | Snowboards for skis |
This sounds like what I purchased a few years ago to put under heavy objects
so as to allow one person to take hold of a lead rope and easily move very
heavy object around on carpet. I believe they came from a carpet layer's
supply house. They were unbelievable for that.
Jim Crowder
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Before you start doing anything with aluminium, especially in direct contact
with snow, consider the fact that bare aluminium will ice up like nothing
you can imagine... even under the coldest driest conditions.
The very best thing to have in contact with the snow is Teflon plastic...
My father built several komitiks (sleighs) to pull behind his snowmobile.
The best thing he found for running surfaces was Krazy Karpet. Most
hospitals have thousands of them turned in by the parents of injured
children for free. They are easy to attach using strips of Teflon plastic
and screws and they are easy to replace.... and there is no way you will
ever get them to ice up! KrazyKarpet comes in different colours so if you
want you can colour code the year you last recovered the base of your skis.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 2:35 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
Randy, Deke, And Lynn, How about attaching "spray rails" to the edges of the
board made out of 1/8" or so aluminum. And if you don't cut out the board
completely behind the wheel, attach a bent up piece behind the wheel to
eliminate the cheese cutter effect.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
> From: lynnmatt@jps.net
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Snowboards for skis
> Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:48:53 -0500
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> What you're proposing, Randy, is basically how the Wipaire skis are
> designed. I have a picture of them, and it looks like the edges are
> turned up slightly. I also believe that's how Leonard made the
> bottoms that he attached to his skis.
> I'm going to attach side "rails" onto my new ski bottoms, such that
> they bend up at the edges, and act like spray rails on a boat.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
> system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2008, at 12:26 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
>
> > Deke,
> >
> > I have been toying with that idea for a year or so. Even gone to a
> > few used Ski sales looking for a pair of matching boards.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have decided that I want to build wheel penetration skis with the
> > entire board cut out behind the wheel. This would make them easy
> > to put on and I think would still provide a lot of floatation
> > behind the axel.
> >
> >
> >
> > The one thing I don't like with this approach is the good boards
> > have really sharp edges on the sides. Better for snow boarding,
> > but I think slightly turned up edges may be desirable for ktifox skis.
> >
> >
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
>
>
>
>= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
&g===================
>
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: water overflow bottle height |
Jack,
Which engine are you using? Each model may be different.
On my 912ULS, the 10 inch measurement you cite is accurate, but the
formula you wrote is not for volume. The volume would be volume = r2
h. Where r is the radius of the hose and h is the length (height) of
the hose. This may be air or fluid depending on your installation and
how you fill the reservoir and overflow container. If the hose has
air, it will eventually be released out the hole in the cap of the
overflow bottle. I don't think there's a problem with that small
amount of air anyway, since it can't back flow into the reservoir due
to the pressure valve in the cap. When the engine heats up, the air
in the hose will expand and some of it will bubble out the breather
hole in the cap and be replaced with the fluid in the overflow
container. If the pressure gets to great in the system, the cap valve
releases and allows coolant to flow into the overflow container. Thus
the air is purged out anyway. Just be sure you have sufficient
coolant in the overflow container so air is not sucked into the system
when it cools down.
Hope this helps.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Dec 21, 2008, at 6:34 PM, jridgway wrote:
> >
>
> I understand from the ROTAX documentation that the water overflow
> bottle can be up to 10 inches below the radiator cap. Won't this
> allow the air (volume=10 inches x inner hose diameter) in the
> overflow line enter the engine before it actually brings up any
> water? Is this small amount of air OK? Does this air get purged out
> with water during the cooling recovery cycle? I am not using a
> separate expansion tank.
> Thanks..Jack
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220456#220456
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: water overflow bottle height |
The hose comes off the bottom of the tank so it will only draw liquid. You should
not have an air issue.
An example would be when you take the cap off the coolant expansion tank air can
get in and the fluid level is not always at the top. It has an air space at
times if the level is down slightly.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220482#220482
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: water overflow bottle height |
Jack=0A=0AYour overflow bottle is a "seperate expansion tank."=0A=0AJim Shu
maker=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A
From: jridgway <jridgway@academicplanet.com>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.co
m=0ASent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 3:34:57 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: wate
<jridgway@academicplanet.com>=0A=0AI understand from the ROTAX documentati
on that the water overflow bottle can be up to 10 inches below the radiator
cap. Won't this allow the air (volume=10 inches x inner hose diameter) i
n the overflow line enter the engine before it actually brings up any water
? Is this small amount of air OK? Does this air get purged out with water d
uring the cooling recovery cycle? I am not using a separate expansion tank.
=0AThanks..Jack=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://foru
=======================
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