---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/27/08: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:08 AM - Bob Brennan (Malcolm Brubaker) 2. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License (Bob Brennan) 3. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Cardiac Arrest (Noel Loveys) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi (Noel Loveys) 5. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Brake Problems (patrick reilly) 6. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License (Pete Christensen) 7. 07:42 AM - Re: 582 RPM question. (Noel Loveys) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: 582 RPM question. (Noel Loveys) 9. 08:10 AM - Re: Kitfox-list: List Nazis (Noel Loveys) 10. 08:11 AM - Re: Kitfox-list: List Nazis (Noel Loveys) 11. 08:43 AM - Re: Engine Mount Fabrication (patrick reilly) 12. 09:03 AM - Re: 582 RPM question. (patrick reilly) 13. 09:46 AM - Skis, who needs skis (Aaron Gustafson) 14. 10:01 AM - Re: Brake Problems (SkySteve) 15. 10:01 AM - Re: 582 RPM question. (815TL) 16. 10:33 AM - Re: 582 RPM question. (Noel Loveys) 17. 10:44 AM - Re: Skis, who needs skis (Noel Loveys) 18. 10:55 AM - Re: Re: 582 RPM question. (Noel Loveys) 19. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi (Lynn Matteson) 20. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: Brake Problems (Lowell Fitt) 21. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi (Noel Loveys) 22. 02:54 PM - Re: Skis, who needs skis (Cudnohufsky's) 23. 05:02 PM - Landing gear (Lowell Fitt) 24. 05:07 PM - Re: dead stick landings (Lowell Fitt) 25. 05:09 PM - Landing gear (Lowell Fitt) 26. 05:37 PM - Re: Skis, who needs skis (Lynn Matteson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:44 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Kitfox-List: Bob Brennan I would like to talk to you about your repairman ticket- roger lee was ve ry helpful- please contact me off line- brubakermal@yahoo.com- w a ph # I will call you-- mal- michigan --- On Fri, 12/26/08, Bob Brennan wrote: From: Bob Brennan Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License Roger, I need to find a personal physician who knows the complete requirements of a class 3 airman's medical certificate then, and in my experience those are AMEs in the first place. But I do appreciate your point. And as Guy pointed out - does the FAA allow an AME to do a "pre-test"? I was extremely lucky in the UK to have a CFI who gave me a pre-GFT (General Flight Test) before a chargeable one. He said if I pass the pre-test I wouldn't need to redo it. I had several pre-tests... but was only charged once. BTW what is the point of the drop-your-shorts and turn-you-head-and-cough part of the class 3 exam?? If I didn't have 'em I wouldn't have become a pilot in the first place! And is a full rectal exam (optional I was told, I opted NOT!) really necessary to be a pilot? Again, it's obvious you have to have one to be one... Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: 26 December 2008 11:01 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License Hi Bob, You are right in your statements. One way some pilots check to see if they will fail the flight medical is to take advantage of your personal medical insurance free physical by your personal doctor. Most insurance companies offer one free physical per year for you and your wife. Use it. If you pass that one ok then you can go get your PPL medical. If you know you can't pass then don't get the PPL medical and start flying LSA. It's not a perfect system, but is all we have. You are right that if you lose your PPL medical then you would have to get it back before going to the LSA license. Once we get past 21 years of age it's all down hill. [Crying or Very sad] -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221201#221201 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:31 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License Hi Richard, Thanks for all the great advice, I'm sure there are others on the list that can benefit from it as well. As summary to this discussion I think it is imperative for us pilots to be very aware of our own medical situation and most of all realistic about it. Second most important is to find a caring AME and hopefully a fair FAA official to deal with, we are all different and should be judged by our true condition, which takes time and effort on their part to understand, rather than the sum of the checkboxes on an FAA form. Which is the main reason for my post - to make sure we are all aware of the consequences of failing an FAA medical exam. For my own part - no I do not self-medicate with aspirin, I only used it for one week in order to quickly reduce my blood pressure for a doctor's visit. I have hereditary high blood pressure but keep it in check with good diet and exercise, I am loathe to fall back on prescribed meds. Aspirin is a blood thinner, it was prescribed to my mother for many years and it does work when taken in moderation. My elevated level was temporary due to extreme stress which is why I don't feel I "cheated" to lower my level artificially in order to gain access to the gym where I could lower it properly. To bring it back on topic - it seems we also need to be cautious and even sometimes devious to get around these silly rules, and don't assume that being honest on a form will trigger a "please explain in more detail" response and a careful review of the circumstances. Cynical? Maybe, but practical under the circumstances I believe. Also - yes I am a member of AOPA and the EAA and have been pleased with the help I have received. The problem is in knowing in advance what advice to seek, in all cases so far I have gone to them because I tried first to deal with the FAA and was rejected for reasons I hadn't anticipated, then AOPA or the EAA will step in to try to get somebody's attention to correct what should never have been a problem in the first place. Now I try to educate myself in advance and avoid the many pitfalls, and share that experience where possible, as many on this list do on a regular basis. A smart man learns from his mistakes, a wise man learns from the mistakes of others and avoids making the mistakes in the first place! Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard Sent: 26 December 2008 9:02 pm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License Bob, As a GA and airline pilot, I've had a special issuance (1st class) for over 20 years and high blood pressure to boot. The FAA has made it very easy for a pilot to get BP meds because they realized guys were avoiding medical treatment of this disease out of fear of losing their certificate. The consequences of not taking the meds were too dangerous. Almost any BP med is now on the FAA approved list. They only ask for a pilot to ascertain any side effects and ensure they don't affect flying. (By the way, the same goes for sleep apnea. It's not that difficult to regain certification, just $$, don't ask how I know this:-) I understand the salt, fat reduction, and the exercise regimen you discussed, and that's great, but I've never heard any doctor recommend aspirin 3 times a day to reduce BP. The side effects of aspirin are serious; internal bleeding, gastric disorders, etc. I hope you're not still doing that. As for Sport Pilot, the feds were backed into a corner. Sport Pilot was supported by the industry and touted by the FAA as a cost reduction to get more people into flying, not as means for us old guys to skirt medical certification conditions. Thus, if you know you have a disqualifying condition, and the FAA doesn't, what can they do? However, once they know, what can they do? Now you and they both know your condition and they can't legally, turn their back to it, as the rule is currently written. Also. it's not likely the rule will change due to the time, cost, and other problems involved in fixing it. It's sad it can't be fixed, but it is what it is. I would recommend establishing a good relationship with your AME and get a physical by him or her in advance,maybe 'within minutes':-) of the flight physical. If you pass fine, if it doesn't, stop there. If the problem is such that immediate action is required then so be it. Better to live and not fly. Go get healed, come back and try again. The relationship 'thing' can't be overemphasized. Most AME's want you to fly and come back frequently for more flight physicals. They also want you to be safe. Most will always work with you, if not, FIRE him and go find another. If you're a member, you can always call the EAA board of medical advisors with your questions. They will give you an unbiased answer and you can do this without fear of repercussion. The same is true for AOPA. Use these folks, as they are there for you. Heck, your dues are paying for this service. Just my two cents. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL ) DO NOT ARCHIVE On Dec 26, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Bob Brennan wrote: So I cut out all salt and fat, took aspirin 3 times a day for a week, and went to my doctor to get a certified reading within their limits. = ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:06:53 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Cardiac Arrest I think the problem was in the Internet explorer... It opened fine with Fire fox. Might have known it would take a fox to see that one! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Cardiac Arrest Float Flyr wrote: > The link wouldn't work for me. > > Noel > > -- The link worked for me, it is the guys going to Norway to fly the wing suits. That would be about as close to heaven as I am likely to get. That was one cool video. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221072#221072 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi Funny you mention Ansel Adams... Wasn't he the one who developed zone IV and using longer lenses to try to get absloutly true representations :-) Me I love to lie with the camera. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:08 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi Not to gloat, but we weren't ALL tricked by the picture, were we? : ) Two optical illusions in one picture...Houdini would have been proud...or Ansel Adams.... Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 25, 2008, at 11:53 AM, akflyer wrote: > > > rjdaugh wrote: >> Man, I am anxious to see the actual ski or have someone describe >> them or >> provide more pictures. >> >> I still think that they are made for two levels of support. I >> will give you >> the prop as optical illusion, but the shape of the tips of the >> skis says >> that they are not symmetrical. I think that that is because of >> the two >> levels. >> >> Randy - Assuming I am correct until proven wrong.... >> >> -- > > > The ski bottoms are NOT stepped, they are flat. I was going to get > pics for you guys yesterday, but the hangar was locked up tight and > the guy is on vacation in Hawaii. > Me thinks the pic is playing tricks on you guys lol. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis > takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221066#221066 > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:52 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems What "Funny lock up problem"? And what about using a GRAY ALUMINUM looking one and a GOLD ANODIZED one? Pat REilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems> From: jridgway@ac ademicplanet.com> Date: Fri=2C 26 Dec 2008 23:45:39 -0800> To: kitfox-list@ ademicplanet.com>> > Their was a funny hydraulic 'lock up' problem when you used dual MATCO brakes. Make sure you do not have the old GRAY IRON lookin g kind. This problem was fixed with the newer GOLD ANODIZED version.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph ===> > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:52 AM PST US From: Pete Christensen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Full PPL vs Sport Pilot License My first physical after I moved to Hell Paso, TX in the late 70's was an in teresting experience.- I was told to go to Dr.XYZ because he never failed anyone.- Since I was new to the area I did.- The office was in a house and when I walked up to the receptionist desk and stated that I was there for an FAA physical I heard a parot in the next room say, "I'm here for an FAA physical."- Shortly thereafter I was led into the "parot" room and th e only one in there was the Dr.- "Oops."- He checked me over and said I had high blood pressure and gave me some blood pressure pills and told me not to tell anyone.- I passed.- I was not diagnosed with high blood pressure again until 2002 but did not t ake another FAA physical until 2007.- I was totally honest on the paperwo rk and checked that I was taking high blood pressure medicine and that I ha ve glaucoma.- The physician had me get some more paperwork from my Dr's a nd sent it in to the FAA.- They sent me back- some more paperwork to ta ke to my Dr's.- I got a letter that I'm on some sort of probation for 6 y ears essentially saying that I have to jump through hoops every physical. - Well, I guess I'll just fly light sport from now on and avoid the hassl e. Pete Kitfox III 912 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:27 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. I'm not an expert on this but I will pass along what a Rotax repair centre suggested to me. On wheels or skis for a Kitfox tie the tail down (static) and set your prop pitch for 6200 rpm this will give you lots of power for takeoff and good cruise ability. On floats set your static rpm at 6400. This will give you a full 6800 rpm in the lift off and initial climb. Cruise speed will drop some but remember you are dragging floats so there is no way it will be as fast. I actually installed an IVO IFA on my plane. We don't have Sport here in Canada so the IFA is a non issue here. I set my pitch for 6800 in the climb before landing so the prop was ready for a go around as well as my next take off. Before levelling off I would reset my prop to 6600 in the climb and leave it there for my entire cruise. Of course I also made adjustments in the throttle so after setting my prop for cruise I'd throttle back to around 5800 rpm. Because the two stroke engine can run very lean when the prop is unloaded and the carbs will make the engine run rich while idling I don't do long descents. I pull the throttle right back to the idle to descend I run the engine at cruise rpm under load every 45 seconds or so just to keep the rad from cooling down too much. This means my descents are sort of like steps down from the sky. Noel Loveys AME Intern, RPP Kitfox III-A Aerocet 1100 floats -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aerobatics@aol.com Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:54 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. there can be a lot of debate .... I finally had a long talk with the folks at Lockwood and my wot at climb was 6200 and wot on ground was about 6000 ... they said I was giving up a lot of power and in fact harder on the engine.... they told at least 6600 wot during best rate of climb ( 55 mph) 6800 is better. Well I took a bit of pitch out and get 6600 or a bit more wot at 55 and it definitely better. TT on that engine 438 hrs. IVO prop 3 blade I think some folks think lower rpm is kinder to a 2 stroke when in fact it may not be ..let her run like its tuned to enjoy! Dave ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:14 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 RPM question. Get a Tiny Tach for two stroke. No moving parts and very accurate... The tach (Kitfox) that came on my plane was reading 20% high across the full arc! It's a wonder I was able to drag the plane into the air on floats. 3000 feet was my maximum altitude. The one saving grace of the old tach was the prop was a wooden one over ten years time-exed. I'm pretty sure if I tried to run that old prop at full rpm I would have had a departure. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 RPM question. Thank you guys. It could be that the tach. is off. Is there a way to test it, and calibrate it. I know that as of October that the plane was flying well, as that is the last time that Larry Huntley flew it. Nothing has really changed motor wise since then, except for repair of the starter. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221180#221180 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:08 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox-list: List Nazis Funny thing... I thought you were referring to yourself J Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Guy Buchanan Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox-list: List Nazis All, Deke, one of the original moderators, thought some of you might have thought I categorized him as a "List Nazi" in my "Happy Holidays" post. Nope, I was only referring to Mike and I, in our current administration. Deke is not, and never was, a "List Nazi". Thanks, Guy Buchanan - Kitfox List ModeratorSan Diego, CA K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade 100% and flying thanks mostly to Bob Ducar ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:12 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Kitfox-list: List Nazis I'll second that motion.... especially the raise and the nog! Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Kitfox-list: List Nazis Guy, You're running one of the best lists ever. The last thing you (or Mike) are, are list nazi's. It's time to chill out and have a double enhanced eggnog shooter:-) It's been great, having you do, what you do, so well. (Time to break into song here.) No apologies necessary - in fact give yourselves a 100% raise. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL DO NOT ARCHIVE On Dec 26, 2008, at 10:14 PM, Guy Buchanan wrote: All, Deke, one of the original moderators, thought some of you might have thought I categorized him as a "List Nazi" in my "Happy Holidays" post. Nope, I was only referring to Mike and I, in our current administration. Deke is not, and never was, a "List Nazi". Thanks, Guy Buchanan - Kitfox List ModeratorSan Diego, CA K-IV/1200 w/ 582 C-box & Warp 3 blade 100% and flying thanks mostly to Bob Ducar matronics.com/contribution tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List cs.com = ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:08 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine Mount Fabrication Bradley=2C Would you mind elaborating on your method of joining tubing with out "fishmouthing" ( I assume that is the samething as tube notching). Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL> From: bmwebb@cox.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subjec t: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine Mount Fabrication> Date: Fri=2C 26 Dec 2008 22:2 .net>> > Hey Lowell=2C> When I mounted my Geo to the M2=2C I went and bough t a laser level from Home> Depot. I can't imagine doing this without this m agical tool.> > Basically=2C I mounted the engine with 2 degrees right thru st and 2 down. This> works very well in flight.> > The vertical down thrust is easy - put a magnetic degree level on the prop> flange. I hung my engin e from an engine hoist=2C and adjusted the straps to> get it tilted down.> > The horizontal right thrust is harder=2C in that it requires public math. Se> here: http://www.gsal.org/tools/offset_calc.htm> > This calculator wil l tell you how far LEFT to move the back of the engine to> get the prop fla nge centered with right thrust. It's just basic trig=2C but> the web app is easier for those of us who slept through high school.> > Once set=2C build up your mount webing=2C and tack weld as you go. Actually=2C the> hardest part was checking the alignment 10=2C000 times as I was going. The> laser l evel is pure magic for this. I found a way to build up the mount> without h aving to fishmouth the tubing. This saved tons of time=2C and is> holding u p very well in use. In fact=2C I dare say my method of joining tubes> is st ronger.> > Basically=2C Just hang the engine where you want it=2C and start fitting up> tubing=2C one piece at a time.> > I hope this answers your que stion=2C> Bradley> > > -----Original Message-----> > From: owner-kitfox-lis t-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt> > Sent: Friday=2C December 26=2C 2008 1:36 PM> > bal.net>> > > > A little change of pace here.> > > > For those who have put alternative engines in their Kitfoxes or other> > airplanes=2C I am curiou s about the techniques for fabricating the engine> > mount. I know there ar e thrust offset angles etc. but how do you convert> > this into an actual e ngine mount.? I am thinking of a mount for a Rotax> > 912> > to a Model IV Kitfox that will allow a more desirable location for the oil> > tank.> > > > I'd appreciate any help.> > > > Lowell Fitt> > Cameron Park=2C CA> > Mode l IV-1200 R-912 UL> > Currently focusing on the Cockpit controlled rudder t => > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:52 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. Noel=2C Did you ever consider shutters on the radiator=2C like Lowell Fitts sells=2C to keep your water temp up durning decent? I bought a set from hi m. I had to get extra parts=2C my radiator is larger than the original stoc k one=2C and modify mine to fit. I can't comment on how they work on decent at idle yet=2C but plenty of others have his shutters on their plane and c an tell us. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Ki tfox-List: 582 RPM question.> Date: Sat=2C 27 Dec 2008 12:12:02 -0330> > -- not an expert on this but I will pass along what a Rotax repair centre> su ggested to me.> > On wheels or skis for a Kitfox tie the tail down (static) and set your prop> pitch for 6200 rpm this will give you lots of power for takeoff and good> cruise ability.> On floats set your static rpm at 6400. This will give you a full 6800 rpm> in the lift off and initial climb. Crui se speed will drop some but remember> you are dragging floats so there is n o way it will be as fast.> > I actually installed an IVO IFA on my plane. W e don't have Sport here in> Canada so the IFA is a non issue here. I set my pitch for 6800 in the climb> before landing so the prop was ready for a go around as well as my next take> off. Before levelling off I would reset my prop to 6600 in the climb and> leave it there for my entire cruise. Of cou rse I also made adjustments in> the throttle so after setting my prop for c ruise I'd throttle back to around> 5800 rpm.> > Because the two stroke engi ne can run very lean when the prop is unloaded> and the carbs will make the engine run rich while idling I don't do long> descents. I pull the throttl e right back to the idle to descend I run the> engine at cruise rpm under l oad every 45 seconds or so just to keep the rad> from cooling down too much . This means my descents are sort of like steps> down from the sky. > > > N oel Loveys> AME Intern=2C RPP> Kitfox III-A> Aerocet 1100 floats> > > > --- --Original Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mai lto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of> aerobatics@aol.co m> Sent: Thursday=2C December 25=2C 2008 11:54 PM> To: kitfox-list@matronic s.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question.> > --> Kitfox-List messa ge posted by: aerobatics@aol.com> > there can be a lot of debate .... I fin ally had a long talk with the > folks at Lockwood and my wot at climb was 6 200 and wot on ground was > about 6000 ... they said I was giving up a lot of power and in fact > harder on the engine.... they told at least 6600 wot during best rate > of climb ( 55 mph) 6800 is better. Well I took a bit of pitch out > and get 6600 or a bit more wot at 55 and it definitely better. TT on > that engine 438 hrs. IVO prop 3 blade> > I think some folks think lower rpm is kinder to a 2 stroke when in fact > it may not be ..let her ru =====> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:29 AM PST US From: "Aaron Gustafson" Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis A picture from a couple years ago on the lake http://www.eaa439.org/photos/index.htm Aaron Gustafson I did have skis also ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:29 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems From: "SkySteve" I do have the gold anodized ones. They are still not right, but I have learned to deal with them. I must hold the left brake while depressing the right brake or I do not get braking action on the right brake. -------- Steve Wilson Huntsville, UT Kitfox Model 1- 85DD 912A / 3 Blade Warp Drive Convertible Nosewheel & Tailwheel Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221373#221373 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:30 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 RPM question. From: "815TL" Thanks again everyone for all the info. It sounds like the Tiny Tach is the way to go, and they are fairly inexpensive. Should I just remove the old tach and put this in place, or run both? Are they accurate enough to, just run it alone? First few flights, I will probably just leave it as is, and see how everything goes, then move on to the Tiny Tach and adjusting the prop pirch. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221372#221372 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:24 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. I considered something similar.. Building a scoop with a shutter/bypass on it. So far over cooling hasn't been a problem... neither has overheating. I'm in the process now of installing a 912 in the plane and I'm planning on using the same radiator and if necessary I'll be adding the scoop. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 1:33 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. Noel, Did you ever consider shutters on the radiator, like Lowell Fitts sells, to keep your water temp up durning decent? I bought a set from him. I had to get extra parts, my radiator is larger than the original stock one, and modify mine to fit. I can't comment on how they work on decent at idle yet, but plenty of others have his shutters on their plane and can tell us. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 12:12:02 -0330 > > > I'm not an expert on this but I will pass along what a Rotax repair centre > suggested to me. > > On wheels or skis for a Kitfox tie the tail down (static) and set your prop > pitch for 6200 rpm this will give you lots of power for takeoff and good > cruise ability. > On floats set your static rpm at 6400. This will give you a full 6800 rpm > in the lift off and initial climb. Cruise speed will drop some but remember > you are dragging floats so there is no way it will be as fast. > > I actually installed an IVO IFA on my plane. We don't have Sport here in > Canada so the IFA is a non issue here. I set my pitch for 6800 in the climb > before landing so the prop was ready for a go around as well as my next take > off. Before levelling off I would reset my prop to 6600 in the climb and > leave it there for my entire cruise. Of course I also made adjustments in > the throttle so after setting my prop for cruise I'd throttle back to around > 5800 rpm. > > Because the two stroke engine can run very lean when the prop is unloaded > and the carbs will make the engine run rich while idling I don't do long > descents. I pull the throttle right back to the idle to descend I run the > engine at cruise rpm under load every 45 seconds or so just to keep the rad > from cooling down too much. This means my descents are sort of like steps > down from the sky. > > > Noel Loveys > AME Intern, RPP > Kitfox III-A > Aerocet 1100 floats > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > aerobatics@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:54 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 RPM question. > > > there can be a lot of debate .... I finally had a long talk with the > folks at Lockwood and my wot at climb was 6200 and wot on ground was > about 6000 ... they said I was giving up a lot of power and in fact > harder on the engine.... they told at least 6600 wot during best rate > of climb ( 55 mph) 6800 is better. Well I took a bit of pitch out > and get 6600 or a bit more wot at 55 and it definitely better. TT on > that engine 438 hrs. IVO prop 3 blade > > I think some folks think lower rpm is kinder to a 2 stroke when in fact > it may not be ..let her run like its tuned to enjoy! > > Dave > > > > >===================== >== > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:25 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis Silly que4stion but did any one actually drill that ice to check how thick it was?? How thick was it?/ It looks pretty black/thin to me. From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis A picture from a couple years ago on the lake http://www.eaa439.org/photos/index.htm Aaron Gustafson I did have skis also ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:15 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 RPM question. This is just my personal preference but I run both... There is a reason for that. The digital gives a very accurate reading of the rpm at a point in time but you have to follow the numbers to establish a trend like is the engine speeding up slightly or slowing down slightly... The analog. original tach. reads the trends very well so I use it for that and just ignore the numbers on the face. The very best would be a digital tach with a line representing trend like a lot of cars have in thier digital dashboards. A word of advice; when you wrap the spark plug leads for the Tiny Tach, be sure to wrap both plug leads for one cylinder so the tach will still work when you do your mag tests. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:31 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 RPM question. Thanks again everyone for all the info. It sounds like the Tiny Tach is the way to go, and they are fairly inexpensive. Should I just remove the old tach and put this in place, or run both? Are they accurate enough to, just run it alone? First few flights, I will probably just leave it as is, and see how everything goes, then move on to the Tiny Tach and adjusting the prop pirch. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221372#221372 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:19 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi Yup...pretty sure he developed (no pun) the Zone System, but not sure about the longer lens thing. He was big on large format...4x5, 8x10, etc., and maybe even 11x16. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 27, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Funny you mention Ansel Adams... Wasn't he the one who developed > zone IV > and using longer lenses to try to get absloutly true > representations :-) > > Me I love to lie with the camera. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:08 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" > problem...partly off topi > > > Not to gloat, but we weren't ALL tricked by the picture, were we? : ) > Two optical illusions in one picture...Houdini would have been > proud...or Ansel Adams.... > > Lynn Matteson > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:44 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems Pat, In the early days the Matco brakes - if passenger and pilot brakes were both installed - would lock up if the passenger touched his brakes at the same time the pilot applied the brakes. It would require exiting the airplane and bleeding off a bit of pressure at the bleed nipple on the caliper. Big bother. It was one of the reasons I never had passenger side brakes. It did become a slight issue a couple of times as my airplane was loaned for checkrides and the check pilot found himself with no brakes on his side. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "patrick reilly" Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 7:36 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems What "Funny lock up problem"? And what about using a GRAY ALUMINUM looking one and a GOLD ANODIZED one? Pat REilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Brake Problems> From: jridgway@academicplanet.com> Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:45:39 -0800> To: > > Their was a funny hydraulic 'lock up' problem when you used dual MATCO brakes. Make sure you do not have the old GRAY IRON looking kind. This problem was fixed with the newer GOLD ANODIZED version.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph===> > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:26 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi Part of using the technical camera was to eliminate perspective problems. Pun intended :-) Being a proud Canuk I'm supposed to support Freeman Patterson as greatest scenic photographer ever. Addams is awesome though and in B&W he's miles ahead of everyone. Except for national pride he'd get my vote. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" problem...partly off topi Yup...pretty sure he developed (no pun) the Zone System, but not sure about the longer lens thing. He was big on large format...4x5, 8x10, etc., and maybe even 11x16. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 27, 2008, at 10:10 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Funny you mention Ansel Adams... Wasn't he the one who developed > zone IV > and using longer lenses to try to get absloutly true > representations :-) > > Me I love to lie with the camera. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:08 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Skis - Solve the "Wide or Narrow" > problem...partly off topi > > > Not to gloat, but we weren't ALL tricked by the picture, were we? : ) > Two optical illusions in one picture...Houdini would have been > proud...or Ansel Adams.... > > Lynn Matteson > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:25 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis Noel, I can answer that question for Aaron, I was the guy flying the Kitfox, Aaron was in the Yellow and Blue Kolb and our friend Scott was in the White Kolb. We did not have to drill the ice, it was over a foot thick with trucks and fishing shacks already on it, that year we had hardly any snow just cold up until then. Landing was a new experience because the ice was as slick as it looks. Lloyd Cudnohufsky Model 5 912ul IFA Northern Michigan From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:42 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis Silly que4stion but did any one actually drill that ice to check how thick it was?? How thick was it?/ It looks pretty black/thin to me. From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:15 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis A picture from a couple years ago on the lake HYPERLINK "http://www.eaa439.org/photos/index.htm"http://www.eaa439.org/photos/index.h tm Aaron Gustafson I did have skis also http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List Checked by AVG. 1:01 PM Checked by AVG. 1:01 PM ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:56 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing gear Dick, I have finished the gear, but have not yet welded on the fairing tabs. I mounted them on my fuselage for the purpose of checking wheel alignment. Together they check in a fraction of a degree toed out which is what we wanted. I wanted to run something else past you before I do and I hesitate doing it. The gear assembly bare naked will be priced just a tad under John McBeans, somewhere in the high $1,300 to low $1,400 range. There is a lot of work with the tabs and fairings. We are planning on a $250 add on for that. Would you be willing to split the difference - $125 for the tabs and fairing materials in addion to the $1,000 for the gear? I will hold off starting the welding until I hear from you. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:47 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine out in experimental aircraft > Lowell if you decide to make a spreadsheet for experimentals( other > aircraft > not included) you can count me in for two engine failures. One was in a > "Der > Jaeger"(biplane) that one I put back on the runway with no damage. The > other > was a Pitts which I ended up putting upside down in a field (it was > destroyed) > Both happened on take off. > Dick Maddux > Fox 4 > Pensacola ,Fl > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > cemailfooterNO62) > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:42 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: dead stick landings ----- Original Message ----- From: "bob noffs" Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 7:16 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: dead stick landings my 2 cents, surely dont want to offend anyone but here is my 2 cents worth. i definitely support the practice of engine out conditions and landings with the engine at idle. in my mind the practice of picking out the landing spot and managing altitude is the critical part of a successful emergency landing. the actual touchdown we all practice at least once for each take off. it seems that the major selling point of the engine off advocates is that the airplane handles differently. it sinks a little less i have read. that being the case it still isn't logical in my mind to practice engine out conditions with engine at idle solo and with 1/4 tanks rather than at gross wt. because the former performs better. the long and short of this is that the engine may not restart and you may have put yourself in an emergency. a quick story that has nothing to do with anything.... a friend who is a cfi with 6000 hrs instructing used to practice minimum controllable airspeed with the critical engine out in twins with his students. the exercise was over when the airspeed dropped to a point where the airplane started to yaw and controls lost effectiveness. one day a little turbulence hit the plane at the end of the exercise. the airplane was instantly inverted and in a steep dive. he is still my friend so obviously recovered . he doesnt take that exercise quite as far since that happened. he doesnt think the benefit is worth the risk i have never had an engine quit in flight but i sure have had then not start when i wanted them to. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:19 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Landing gear To the list. My face is red and I am sorry for the previous post. It was to have gone to Dick off list. Sorry. Lowell ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:08 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis I can relate to slick ice....the first year I moved back to Michigan, we had a really fast freeze, and the ice was absolutely clear except for a few bubbles and some cracks that let you determine its thickness...about 4". I got my skates on and was tentatively skating around, and it was the weirdest feeling I've ever had...the brain reacted to the vision of ice so clear that the feeling was that you were walking/skating on water. My brain said this isn't possible, and it told me to get the hell out of there. It took a while to overcome this feeling. You could see bottles, cans, leaves, an old tire, all the stuff that is always there, but crystal clear...not as seen in the summer through the murk. For over 40 years I've skated on artificial ice, and that is always translucent. That's why this was such a mind boggler. Who said old guys always need to tell stories? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Dec 27, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Cudnohufsky's wrote: > Noel, > > I can answer that question for Aaron, I was the guy flying the > Kitfox, Aaron was in the Yellow and Blue Kolb and our friend Scott > was in the White Kolb. We did not have to drill the ice, it was > over a foot thick with trucks and fishing shacks already on it, > that year we had hardly any snow just cold up until then. Landing > was a new experience because the ice was as slick as it looks. > > > Lloyd Cudnohufsky > > Model 5 912ul IFA > > Northern Michigan > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 12:42 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis > > > Silly que4stion but did any one actually drill that ice to check > how thick it was?? How thick was it?/ It looks pretty black/thin > to me. > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aaron Gustafson > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 2:15 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Skis, who needs skis > > > A picture from a couple years ago on the lake > > > http://www.eaa439.org/photos/index.htm > > > Aaron Gustafson I did have skis also > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/ > Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http:// > www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator? > Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com > > > Checked by AVG. > 12/26/2008 1:01 PM > > > Checked by AVG. > 12/26/2008 1:01 PM > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > =========================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.