Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan)
2. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (steve shinabery)
3. 04:12 AM - Pic's of TRAILERS (steve shinabery)
4. 04:16 AM - Pic's of Trailers (steve shinabery)
5. 04:18 AM - Pic's of Trailers (steve shinabery)
6. 04:22 AM - Pic's of trailers (steve shinabery)
7. 04:29 AM - Pic's of Trailers (steve shinabery)
8. 06:09 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Catz631@aol.com)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
10. 09:21 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan)
11. 11:29 AM - Re: Wing Repairs (Cudnohufsky's)
12. 11:51 AM - Re: Wing Repairs (Lynn Matteson)
13. 04:30 PM - Re: 582 RPM question. (Cmflyboy12@aol.com)
14. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (kirk hull)
15. 05:16 PM - Re: Wing Repairs (Ted Palamarek)
16. 05:44 PM - Re: Wing Repairs (Cudnohufsky's)
17. 06:57 PM - First Flight - finally (Weiss Richard)
18. 07:19 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Randy Daughenbaugh)
19. 07:22 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Vic Baker)
20. 07:28 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
21. 07:41 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
22. 08:26 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (akflyer)
23. 09:33 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Weiss Richard)
24. 10:03 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (gary.algate@sandvik.com)
25. 10:35 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Jim Crowder)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Fuel in the wing tanks - that might be the main reason my trailering differs
from most others who have posted here. My KFII has one 6 gallon "reserve"
tank in the starboard wing and I follow my KFII Operator's Manual which says
to never fold the wing with fuel in the tank - for one thing it makes the
wing heavy and also fuel can slosh out of the filler cap. I don't use the
wing tank unless I am going a distance, and then I will only fuel it when
it's off the trailer and use the fuel before loading back on the trailer.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: 03 January 2009 10:18 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
I think the reason for the tailwheel lift is so less fuel has to be drained
from the tanks before trailering.. It also eases folding and unfolding if
the wings track horizontally rather than down hill. At least that is why
the local trailer guy does it. He loads with the wings out and then folds
the wings, and infolds while on the trailer.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Kirk, and anyone else who trailers on a flatbed or knows the answer,
>
> I notice in yours and several other pictures the tailwheel is raised so
> that
> the wings and stabiliser are level, or I assume that is the reason. I
> trailer mine with the tailwheel on the deck, specifically so that the wind
> while travelling is exerting a downward pressure on the surfaces and
> hopefully holding everything in place without flutter. I have never had
> rubbing marks of the flaperons against the tail, which are held tight
> against it, or any problems with the horizontal control surface which is
> all
> the way down and not secured.
>
> Some have mentioned fears of tailwheel spring damage but my Maule assembly
> is very robust and never shown any problems. I secure the wheel itself to
> an
> electric winch cable (used to lower the plane down the ramp) and ratchet
> straps tightly to either side.
>
> I would be nervous travelling with the arse up like your picture - can you
> share your reasons? Also it looks like your rear inspection plates are
> off,
> or is that a reflection in a shiny surface?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
> Sent: 03 January 2009 2:59 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> Attached is a picture of my classic 4 on her trailer. To steady the
> vertical I use a plywood brace that slides over the top like a big rigid
> sock. The elevator is secured in the full down position with a bungee in
> the cabin
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Bob Brennan wrote:
>
> Why do you think "with the tail down on the deck it[they?] will create a lot
> of down force"? The airfoil only works from leading edge to trailing edge,
> in that position (trailering, tail down) the air pressure will just spill to
> the sides and center and provide minimal force downward where you want it -
> holding it on the flatbed. Seems to work for me, or are my physics wrong?
> Lifting the tail can cause varying lift, down pressure, side pressures,
> vibration, elevator flapping around, and other bad stuff. As others have
> posted about "rubbing on the tail". No? Yes?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
> Sent: 03 January 2009 4:29 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
>
> The rear inspection plates are off. That is an old photo of the first trip
> to the airport and everything was not buttoned up as I did a full inspection
> before the first flight. As for the tail being up. That prevents excessive
> air loads on the wings in the folded position. With the tail down on the
> deck they will create a lot of down force
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Kirk, and anyone else who trailers on a flatbed or knows the answer,
>
> I notice in yours and several other pictures the tailwheel is raised so that
> the wings and stabiliser are level, or I assume that is the reason. I
> trailer mine with the tailwheel on the deck, specifically so that the wind
> while travelling is exerting a downward pressure on the surfaces and
> hopefully holding everything in place without flutter. I have never had
> rubbing marks of the flaperons against the tail, which are held tight
> against it, or any problems with the horizontal control surface which is all
> the way down and not secured.
>
> Some have mentioned fears of tailwheel spring damage but my Maule assembly
> is very robust and never shown any problems. I secure the wheel itself to an
> electric winch cable (used to lower the plane down the ramp) and ratchet
> straps tightly to either side.
>
> I would be nervous travelling with the arse up like your picture - can you
> share your reasons? Also it looks like your rear inspection plates are off,
> or is that a reflection in a shiny surface?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
> Sent: 03 January 2009 2:59 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> Attached is a picture of my classic 4 on her trailer. To steady the
> vertical I use a plywood brace that slides over the top like a big rigid
> sock. The elevator is secured in the full down position with a bungee in
> the cabin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
I have trailered many airplanes.as a savage company my friend owns.On my
trailer that I have plans drawn up by me..and then trailer built for me
by .a trailer company that I sell.we have hauled many airplanes through
out the country on my trailers.And most of them on back wards.with no
problems.as long as you have.tail tied down tight.And Stab+Rudder.so
they can not move around .by adding braces that i have made..my trailer
have moved C172,C170,C140,Tailer Crafts,KitFox,TriPacers,and a few
others with no problems at all.and speeds 50-65mph with no problems.back
wards and forwards.my trailer were made to haul air planes.but I like to
haul them backwards the best...Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 3
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| Subject: | Pic's of TRAILERS |
Here are some Pic's of my Trailers in action.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Pic's of Trailers |
Here is some pictures of my Trailers in action..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 5
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| Subject: | Pic's of Trailers |
More pictures of my Trailers in action..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 6
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| Subject: | Pic's of trailers |
Picturs of my trailers in action..And that is me at the top
picture..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 7
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| Subject: | Pic's of Trailers |
More Pic's of my trailers in action,Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
James,
You have a lot of really good advice on how to tow your Kitfox. I thought I
would add just a little more. I towed my Kitfox from just south of Boston,Ma
to Pensacola ,Fl on a 24 ft trailer. We tied the wheels to the front
rail,locked the elevator with the seat belts,made and used the "sailplane rudder
lock"
(carpet lined wood) and Skystar wing support bars. We supported the tail with a
hay bale covered with plastic.( hay bail has been removed in the picture)
This kept the tail wheel about 6 inches off the deck. The turtle deck hole and
forward fuselage was wrapped with plastic sheeting.
We traveled about 2000 miles as I recall and went thru snow storms,road
salting,winds,etc. It was quite a journey. I had to do alot of aircraft cleaning
when we arrived at my hanger.(It was not fun tying the aircraft down at 15
degrees).
We had one trucker ask what type of a bug we were hauling. I guess the
Kitfox with the wings folded does look like a giant roach with the wings folded
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to
celebrity break-ups and everything in between.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Sorry, Bob, I gave it all night to exorcise the "evil" out
before answering, and all I could come up with was buying a better
brand of plywood. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
> but a flat piece of plywood held level in the wind
> will likely vibrate itself into oblivion.
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Always remember that what you post on the Internet lasts forever. Or as near
to a technical "forever" as one can get. I always try to use a double
entendre, that way I can always call the other person evil for taking it the
way I did not intend, even though I did! Little things like "vibrate itself
into oblivion" ;-)
Do not archive
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 04 January 2009 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
Sorry, Bob, I gave it all night to exorcise the "evil" out
before answering, and all I could come up with was buying a better
brand of plywood. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
> but a flat piece of plywood held level in the wind
> will likely vibrate itself into oblivion.
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
Message 11
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Lynn,
Thanks for the reply.
Now that I like, if I were to open the wing in that area I would definitely
steel you idea and duplicate it.
Lloyd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Repairs
Lloyd-
Here's a shot of my capstrip, and the false ribs I built on both sides of
it. I don't think the manual calls for the false ribs on the tank, but I
figured to keep the same look for the whole wing they needed to be added.
The second shot is of the top false ribs over the tank. These were 1/8"
spruce from the model airplane store.
Checked by AVG.
1:10 PM
Checked by AVG.
2:14 PM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Repairs |
Ideas here are free for the taking...thanks for the kind words, Lloyd.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Jan 4, 2009, at 2:27 PM, Cudnohufsky's wrote:
> <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
> Lynn,
> Thanks for the reply.
> Now that I like, if I were to open the wing in that area I would
> definitely
> steel you idea and duplicate it.
>
> Lloyd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:10 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Repairs
>
> Lloyd-
> Here's a shot of my capstrip, and the false ribs I built on both
> sides of
> it. I don't think the manual calls for the false ribs on the tank,
> but I
> figured to keep the same look for the whole wing they needed to be
> added.
> The second shot is of the top false ribs over the tank. These were
> 1/8"
> spruce from the model airplane store.
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 1:10 PM
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 2:14 PM
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 582 RPM question. |
I,ve got a air scoop and shutter that I,ve installed on my kitfox 2,582 and
it works good.I used it in cold temps to keep it 140 and above works great
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Better check your physics. Any shape can act as a wing when moving though
the air in any direction. Granted some shapes are better then others but
any will work. If you don't believe me all you have to do is stick you hand
out the window of a moving car. As with any wing the more + angle of attack
(until stall) the more lift and the more - angle of attack the more down
force.
While I could be wrong my line of thinking goes like this.
The wing was designed to have lift applied to it with the wings in the
extended position where the load is evenly distributed to all connections.
With the wings folded you loose 1 connection(front spar) leaving the
remaining supports both on the same side. This is why most people have come
up with a bracket of some sort to support the leading edge. With that said,
with the tail down (- angle of attack) you are applying force in the
opposite direction to which the wing was designed with the addition of
minimal support. With the tail up in a neutral position you are not adding
any extra force in either direction to the wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve shinabery
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
Bob Brennan wrote:
<matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Why do you think "with the tail down on the deck it[they?] will create a
lot
> of down force"? The airfoil only works from leading edge to trailing edge,
> in that position (trailering, tail down) the air pressure will just spill
to
> the sides and center and provide minimal force downward where you want it
-
> holding it on the flatbed. Seems to work for me, or are my physics wrong?
> Lifting the tail can cause varying lift, down pressure, side pressures,
> vibration, elevator flapping around, and other bad stuff. As others have
> posted about "rubbing on the tail". No? Yes?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
> Sent: 03 January 2009 4:29 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
>
> The rear inspection plates are off. That is an old photo of the first
trip
> to the airport and everything was not buttoned up as I did a full
inspection
> before the first flight. As for the tail being up. That prevents
excessive
> air loads on the wings in the folded position. With the tail down on the
> deck they will create a lot of down force
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
> Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:48 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> Kirk, and anyone else who trailers on a flatbed or knows the answer,
>
> I notice in yours and several other pictures the tailwheel is raised so
that
> the wings and stabiliser are level, or I assume that is the reason. I
> trailer mine with the tailwheel on the deck, specifically so that the wind
> while travelling is exerting a downward pressure on the surfaces and
> hopefully holding everything in place without flutter. I have never had
> rubbing marks of the flaperons against the tail, which are held tight
> against it, or any problems with the horizontal control surface which is
all
> the way down and not secured.
>
> Some have mentioned fears of tailwheel spring damage but my Maule assembly
> is very robust and never shown any problems. I secure the wheel itself to
an
> electric winch cable (used to lower the plane down the ramp) and ratchet
> straps tightly to either side.
>
> I would be nervous travelling with the arse up like your picture - can you
> share your reasons? Also it looks like your rear inspection plates are
off,
> or is that a reflection in a shiny surface?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of kirk hull
> Sent: 03 January 2009 2:59 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> Attached is a picture of my classic 4 on her trailer. To steady the
> vertical I use a plywood brace that slides over the top like a big rigid
> sock. The elevator is secured in the full down position with a bungee in
> the cabin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
I have trailered many airplanes.as a savage company my friend owns.On my
trailer that I have plans drawn up by me..and then trailer built for me
by .a trailer company that I sell.we have hauled many airplanes through
out the country on my trailers.And most of them on back wards.with no
problems.as long as you have.tail tied down tight.And Stab+Rudder.so
they can not move around .by adding braces that i have made..my trailer
have moved C172,C170,C140,Tailer Crafts,KitFox,TriPacers,and a few
others with no problems at all.and speeds 50-65mph with no problems.back
wards and forwards.my trailer were made to haul air planes.but I like to
haul them backwards the best...Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 15
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Lloyd
If your aircraft is the same as mine, then the piece you are looking at is
part #27023 and it is the partial rib that goes under the tank to the wing
trailing edge. The rear of the partial rib forms the airfoil from the back
of the tank (rear spar) to the wing trailing edge metal piece. From your
description I would suspect that what has happened is only the cap strip
under the tank has come lose but the web, upper cap strip and lower cap
strip rearward of the tank are still intact.
Hope this helps.
Ted Palamarek
Model IV/912
Edmonton, Alberta
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cudnohufsky's
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Repairs
All,
I thought it might be time for a new topic,
I have a Model 5 I am rebuilding after a ground loop (No, I did not ground
loop it, I bought it that way). The main wings have 13 gallon wing tanks in
each and it appears the builder installed a full cap strip on a spacer that
is glued to the bottom of the wing tank where the wing rib would normally be
if the tank was not there. . I removed the sumping port and used a bore
camera with a 3' lead slid in between the fabric and the tank to inspect it.
I did not see anything in the build manual that indicated installing this
capstrip across the tank; has anyone else installed this capstrip across the
bottom center of their 13 gallon wing tanks? The reason I am asking is
because it has come loose from the spacer it was glued to and is now only
attached to the fabric, the spacer is still attached to the wing tank. My
thought was to install 2 inspection access ports next to it and either
repair it or remove it. It does not appear that it came loose as a result of
the ground loop, looks to have been that way for a while, both wings have
them and they both appear to be loose.
Lloyd Cudnohufsky
Model 5 912ul IVO IFA
Upper Mi.
Checked by AVG.
1/1/2009 5:01 PM
Message 16
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Ted,
You are correct; the rib behind the rear spar is fine, it is only the
cap
strip part that is under the tank that has come loose from the spacer
between it and the tank. Cap strip is still attached to the fabric.
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Palamarek
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Wing Repairs
Lloyd
If your aircraft is the same as mine, then the piece you are looking at
is
part #27023 and it is the partial rib that goes under the tank to the
wing
trailing edge. The rear of the partial rib forms the airfoil from the
back
of the tank (rear spar) to the wing trailing edge metal piece. >From
your
description I would suspect that what has happened is only the cap strip
under the tank has come lose but the web, upper cap strip and lower cap
strip rearward of the tank are still intact.
Hope this helps.
Ted Palamarek
Model IV/912
Edmonton, Alberta
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Cudnohufsky's
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wing Repairs
All,
I thought it might be time for a new topic,
I have a Model 5 I am rebuilding after a ground loop (No, I did not
ground
loop it, I bought it that way). The main wings have 13 gallon wing tanks
in
each and it appears the builder installed a full cap strip on a spacer
that
is glued to the bottom of the wing tank where the wing rib would
normally be
if the tank was not there. . I removed the sumping port and used a bore
camera with a 3=92 lead slid in between the fabric and the tank to
inspect it.
I did not see anything in the build manual that indicated installing
this
capstrip across the tank; has anyone else installed this capstrip across
the
bottom center of their 13 gallon wing tanks? The reason I am asking is
because it has come loose from the spacer it was glued to and is now
only
attached to the fabric, the spacer is still attached to the wing tank.
My
thought was to install 2 inspection access ports next to it and either
repair it or remove it. It does not appear that it came loose as a
result of
the ground loop, looks to have been that way for a while, both wings
have
them and they both appear to be loose.
Lloyd Cudnohufsky
Model 5 912ul IVO IFA
Upper Mi.
Checked by AVG.
1/1/2009 5:01 PM
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matronics.com/
Nav
igator?Kitfox-List
"http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
Checked by AVG.
1/3/2009
2:14 PM
Checked by AVG.
1/3/2009
2:14 PM
Message 17
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| Subject: | First Flight - finally |
All,
Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, temperature
about 70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona Beach), sky
was high thin for the most part, so I decided, after 14 years and 9
months of building time, it was time to get this bird in the air.
After reading about everyone's first flight posts, I guess I was the
only guy to ever be nervous flying their machine for the first time.
Like everyone here knows, the ground roll was quick and short. The
liftoff smooth and wow, this airplane flies great. I would like to
tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked
(along with a few other minor things). It made for a few interesting
moments, but attitude flying worked good, until the condensation on my
windscreen made everything ahead invisible. Fortunately the side
windows stayed clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a
minute. I leveled at 1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and
played for about 10 more minutes then headed back for a landing. It
all went smooth considering I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and
extra speed, just to be on the safe side. I would like to say it was
a perfect landing, but it did a small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff
speed. That had to be the best half hour of flying fun in a long time.
Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these
years. I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of
others to thank for all their help and they know who they are.
However, I want to especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife,
for all 14 years and 9 months of patience and support. She is the
greatest!!!!
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
Message 18
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| Subject: | First Flight - finally |
Rick,
Congratulations and thanks for the pictures.
Randy
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - finally |
Congratulations Rick! A nice looking plane you've got there.
Vic
Vic Baker
S7 912S Warp
Phase 1 flight testing
Carson City, Nv
----- Original Message -----
From: Weiss Richard
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 6:55 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally
All,
Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, temperature
about 70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona Beach), sky was
high thin for the most part, so I decided, after 14 years and 9 months
of building time, it was time to get this bird in the air. After
reading about everyone's first flight posts, I guess I was the only guy
to ever be nervous flying their machine for the first time. Like
everyone here knows, the ground roll was quick and short. The liftoff
smooth and wow, this airplane flies great. I would like to tell you how
fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked (along with a
few other minor things). It made for a few interesting moments, but
attitude flying worked good, until the condensation on my windscreen
made everything ahead invisible. Fortunately the side windows stayed
clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a minute. I leveled at
1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and played for about 10 more
minutes then headed back for a landing. It all went smooth considering
I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and extra speed, just to be on the
safe side. I would like to say it was a perfect landing, but it did a
small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff speed. That had to be the best
half hour of flying fun in a long time.
Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these
years. I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of
others to thank for all their help and they know who they are. However,
I want to especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife, for all 14
years and 9 months of patience and support. She is the greatest!!!!
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
=
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - finally |
On Sun, January 4, 2009 6:55 pm, Weiss Richard wrote:
clip clip
Exciting news, thanks for the photos too!
> I would like to
> tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked
> (along with a few other minor things).
How and why did that happen? Apparently not having an airspeed indication didn't
keep
you on the ground. On a first flight especially, that would have kept me on the
ground.
Congratulations. I really enjoyed the posting of this event.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 21
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| Subject: | First Flight - finally |
Rick
Nice fotos and congratulations on your first flight. can you give us any
data on your plane?
Best regards
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - finally |
Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
> On Sun, January 4, 2009 6:55 pm, Weiss Richard wrote:
>
> clip clip
>
> Exciting news, thanks for the photos too!
>
>
> > I would like to
> > tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked
> > (along with a few other minor things).
> >
> >
>
> How and why did that happen? Apparently not having an airspeed indication didn't
keep
> you on the ground. On a first flight especially, that would have kept me on the
> ground.
>
> Congratulations. I really enjoyed the posting of this event.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
Well my first flight in mine was without an airspeed indicator (some jack a$$ put
the pito line on the static port)...... As you know the ground roll is very
short, by the time you glance at the airspeed indicator you are flying...
I would like to know how all the early pioneers were able to fly without ANY instruments
:dhooooo:
Not to be a hero, or a total smart a$$ but people loose instruments all the time,
not a big deal unless you are IFR and you loose the panel, dang sure not a
reason to stay on the ground on a blue bird day.
Rick, Nice bird and congrats on the flight, you are right, these are the most fun
flying birds I have ever played with.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222917#222917
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - finally |
On Jan 4, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote:
> How and why did that happen? Apparently not having an airspeed
> indication didn't keep
> you on the ground. On a first flight especially, that would have
> kept me on the
> ground.
Paul, Thanks. I don't yet know why it didn't work. I'll keep you
posted on the failure analysis.
If I had known in advance it wouldn't work, I would have stayed on the
ground to. As you know, by the time I got to looking at the airspeed,
I was flying. I decided I would just continue since everything else
was nominal. Once stabilized I used my 496 for groundspeed which I
figured would be close enough to airspeed since the winds were calm.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nice fotos and congratulations on your first flight. can you give us
any data on your plane?
Best regards
Gary
Gary, Thanks. Good question about the specs.
I can't provide too many real 'specs' yet, but here's a description of
the plane.
It's certified as an LSA. The landing gear is the 35 pound, airfoil
shaped, gun drilled Grove Gear and worth every pound. This helped
drive the EW up to 853 pounds. I don't know if that's heavy or light,
but that's what it is. I'm in the middle of the CG range and can't
get out of CG under any legal loading.
I'll provide a picture of the panel later, but for now, it's loaded
with standard 6 pack instruments (vacuum AI and electric DG) and a
Sagem MFD that also has an engine monitoring system, moving map,
terrain warning, data recording, etc. My compass is a Brookstone (the
'toy' store) battery operated electronic compass. It was cheap at
about $50 as I recall. I velcroed it to the top of the panel, and
calibrated it per the directions (very easy to do). The compass
correction card is not needed because this sucker is on target at
every compass point. I was concerned about it after all I read on the
list about compass errors and degaussing, so this was relief. The
radios are the old Terra; Comm, Nav (VOR, ILS), and transponder
variety. The Nav head accepts VOR, ILS, and GPS. The airplane is set
up to accept a mode S transponder, ADS-B, etc. although not
installed, the antennas and wiring are in place. The audio panel is
the PS Engineering 6000 with marker beacon. Whelen strobes and a home
depot landing and taxi light provide plenty of recognition capability.
I also have the original Lift Reserve Indicator system with the LED/
audio annunciators. There's also a G meter, electric clock, and AM/FM/
CD Player (the plane is so old I would have not had this and used my
Ipod instead, but...) All instruments are lit with the UMA white
light rings and I have under glare shield emergency strip lights that
use a 9V backup battery. The panel face is a black, carbon fiber
overlay from Aero Enhancements in St. LouisThere is no key for the
ignition. I use toggle/lock switches for ignition and a unique
electrical signature to provide power to a start button.
The interior is standard blue fire resistant aviation carpet. The
seats are NASA foam covered in sheepskin. I added a 5 point Hooker
Harness restraint system and added heavy duty webbing under the seat
pan.
I used to have electric trim, but 'upgraded' to manual trim because I
didn't like the design of the actuator in the original design.
The airplane has 2 - 13 gallon, kreem coated tanks and the original
small baggage sack. I used the poly fiber system, poly-tone paint,
even on the fiberglass, and it worked out fine. With all the masking,
prepping, cleaning, etc., and a very small paint booth, it took over 5
months to paint. I made every mistake possible to, but Jim and Dondie
at Poly fiber were great help. I would always recommend them.
The engine is the 100 horse Rotax 912S, but uses the old style
starter. The ring mount interfered with the heavy duty starter. The
standard starter works fine and the engine starts easily and runs like
a top. There is no noticeable engine shaking at shut down or start
up. I didn't install carb heat. Each cylinder has CHT and EGT. I
did use the optional oil cooler to. For those guys with the old style
15 cent coolant overflow bottle, call John at Kitfox and replace it
NOW with the current $33 Rotax part (it's worth it). Mine blew a hole
out the side during extended taxi testing. The engine didn't
overheat, but it got really warm. Lost almost all the coolant and the
smoke pouring out of the cowling was a tad scary. The new container
is much more substantial. I use 100LL, because of availability and
the ethanol issues. Per John McBean, I use the TCP additive he
sells. The prop is a Warp Drive, 3 blade, 72 inch and is ground
adjustable. I'm only getting 5200 RPM so I'll have to re-pitch it
from the 17" pitch to something else. Anybody have a suggestion?
That's about all I can remember at my advanced age. Let me know what
else you would like to know.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight - finally |
Thanks for the info on your plane Richard. I always enjoy hearing about
first flights and seeing how people set up their planes.
Your plane looks and sounds great.
I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment as after breaking a leaf in my tail
spring I have wasted hours trying to source a replacement in Australia or
getting one manufactured. As soon as the local spring manufacturer saw it
they recognized it as being off a plane and refuse to make one for me!
John at Kitfox LLC is going to send one to me but the freight will
probably end up costing me more than the price of the spring itself and I
am still going to be grounded for the next week.
I found a supplier who will sell me the material (SUP 9) - 6 Mtr for $20 -
but I am at a bit of a loss as to whether it has to be heat-treated after
its bent. I have experimented before with hardening steel at home and it
either comes out like putty, or glass.......
The joys of experimental flying and I swear I never landed
hard.....................................
Gary
Gary Algate
Classic 4 Jab 2200
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees.
Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by
persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If
you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender
does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of
this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have
made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy
Christmas".
Message 25
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| Subject: | First Flight - finally |
Rick,
Congratulations on a great first flight. That condensation on the
windscreen would have given me a scare. I've had that happen in cars when
passengers had wet clothes and outside temps were low. As to your weight, I
piled everything not installed on board my Fox as close as possible to where
it will be installed and weighed my Model 5 a couple of weeks ago, and my
weight came out very close to yours. When I read yours, I looked on my desk
to check mine, but my weight and balance calculation is apparently at the
hangar. In any case my memory tells me we are probably within ten pounds.
It sounds like you took everything in stride and pulled it off wonderfully.
Great going.
Jim Crowder
Model 5
Installing 3300A Jabiru
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally
All,
Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, temperature about
70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona Beach), sky was high thin
for the most part, so I decided, after 14 years and 9 months of building
time, it was time to get this bird in the air. After reading about
everyone's first flight posts, I guess I was the only guy to ever be nervous
flying their machine for the first time. Like everyone here knows, the
ground roll was quick and short. The liftoff smooth and wow, this airplane
flies great. I would like to tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed
indicator never worked (along with a few other minor things). It made for
a few interesting moments, but attitude flying worked good, until the
condensation on my windscreen made everything ahead invisible. Fortunately
the side windows stayed clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a
minute. I leveled at 1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and played
for about 10 more minutes then headed back for a landing. It all went
smooth considering I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and extra speed, just
to be on the safe side. I would like to say it was a perfect landing, but
it did a small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff speed. That had to be the
best half hour of flying fun in a long time.
Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these years.
I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of others to thank
for all their help and they know who they are. However, I want to
especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife, for all 14 years and 9
months of patience and support. She is the greatest!!!!
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
=
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