---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/05/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:03 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (Lynn Matteson) 2. 02:19 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (Lynn Matteson) 3. 06:02 AM - Tail wheel spring (Weiss Richard) 4. 08:02 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (Lowell Fitt) 5. 08:57 AM - Re: Converting a Series 5 Vixen to tail dragger (earnestj0) 6. 04:01 PM - 582 Exhaust wrap (Pat Reilly) 7. 04:15 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 8. 04:35 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (patrick reilly) 9. 04:42 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (Roger Lee) 10. 04:47 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Michael Logan) 11. 04:49 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 12. 04:53 PM - Re: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 13. 04:54 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (Michael Logan) 14. 06:38 PM - Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 15. 07:05 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Weiss Richard) 16. 07:06 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Weiss Richard) 17. 07:21 PM - Trailering a Kitfox (John Allen) 18. 07:24 PM - Re: First Flight - finally (Cudnohufsky's) 19. 08:32 PM - Re: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (patrick reilly) 20. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:08 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Good show, Rick.....I'd have been through 3 wives/girlfriends in that amount of time. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Jan 4, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Weiss Richard wrote: > All, > > Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, > temperature about 70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona > Beach), sky was high thin for the most part, so I decided, after 14 > years and 9 months of building time, it was time to get this bird > in the air. After reading about everyone's first flight posts, I > guess I was the only guy to ever be nervous flying their machine > for the first time. Like everyone here knows, the ground roll was > quick and short. The liftoff smooth and wow, this airplane flies > great. I would like to tell you how fast I was going, but my > airspeed indicator never worked (along with a few other minor > things). It made for a few interesting moments, but attitude > flying worked good, until the condensation on my windscreen made > everything ahead invisible. Fortunately the side windows stayed > clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a minute. I leveled > at 1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and played for about > 10 more minutes then headed back for a landing. It all went smooth > considering I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and extra speed, > just to be on the safe side. I would like to say it was a perfect > landing, but it did a small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff > speed. That had to be the best half hour of flying fun in a long > time. > > Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these > years. I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of > others to thank for all their help and they know who they are. > However, I want to especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife, > for all 14 years and 9 months of patience and support. She is the > greatest!!!! > > Rick Weiss > N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS > SkyStar S/N 1 > Port Orange, FL > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:36 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally You won't regret getting the 3-leaf spring from John, Gary. Man, this litigious society we have "developed" really pisses me off! I only tell potential suppliers of stuff for my plane that it's for a plane as a last resort, and then usually when they've all but told me that they don't have the part, material, whatever. Sometimes I'm surprised when they say "Have you tried...such and such?" When buying material for my ski bottoms, and the supplier wrings the information out of me, some of 'em say, "oh that doesn't bother me" but most will run to hide behind the skirts of their lawyers. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Jan 5, 2009, at 1:02 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment as after breaking a leaf in > my tail spring I have wasted hours trying to source a replacement > in Australia or getting one manufactured. As soon as the local > spring manufacturer saw it they recognized it as being off a > plane and refuse to make one for me! > > John at Kitfox LLC is going to send one to me but the freight will > probably end up costing me more than the price of the spring itself > and I am still going to be grounded for the next week. > > Gary > > Gary Algate > Classic 4 Jab 2200 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. > This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe > and happy Christmas". _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:07 AM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Kitfox-List: Tail wheel spring On Jan 5, 2009, at 1:02 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > John at Kitfox LLC is going to send one to me but the freight will > probably end up costing me more than the price of the spring itself > and I am still going to be grounded for the next week. Gary, I'm guessing that this the best way to go. The overall cost may be a better bargain than experimenting on heat treating and having another spring break. I know about the freight charges. My overflow container was $33 and the overnight FedEx charge was $47. Go figure. I'm sure being over seas will make the charges really high, but your choices seem limited. Don't be too down - it's only money:-) Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:16 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Rick, Thanks for the update and congratulations. The airplane looks nice. Hope to be joining you soon. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Currently focusing on the Left Wing cover soon. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Thanks for the info on your plane Richard. I always enjoy hearing about first flights and seeing how people set up their planes. Your plane looks and sounds great. I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment as after breaking a leaf in my tail spring I have wasted hours trying to source a replacement in Australia or getting one manufactured. As soon as the local spring manufacturer saw it they recognized it as being off a plane and refuse to make one for me! John at Kitfox LLC is going to send one to me but the freight will probably end up costing me more than the price of the spring itself and I am still going to be grounded for the next week. I found a supplier who will sell me the material (SUP 9) - 6 Mtr for $20 - but I am at a bit of a loss as to whether it has to be heat-treated after its bent. I have experimented before with hardening steel at home and it either comes out like putty, or glass....... The joys of experimental flying and I swear I never landed hard..................................... Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab 2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:12 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Converting a Series 5 Vixen to tail dragger From: "earnestj0" I don't know of any one that has done that, but would be interested in the conversion myself. I intend on flying into the back country this summer with my Vixen, but some of the strips in Idaho are not good for the smaller wheels. I do know that John McBean has flown into much of the backcountry with a tri gear and said it worked well. Ted Jacques McCall Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222975#222975 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:42 PM PST US From: "Pat Reilly" Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Kitfoxers, I know I have seen the pros and cons of wrapping the exhaust with fiber glass exhaust insulating tape to reduce engine compartment temps. But, I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience pro or con that wrapped an exhaust on a 582. I have wrapped the down pipe and am considering blanketing the muffler also. I have used the fiber glass tape wrap on a street rod with good result. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap From: gary.algate@sandvik.com One thing you should consider is that the exhaust system on a two stroke engine also serves as a conductor to radiate heat away from the engine block. Sometimes restricting the heat can lead to additional problems. I have seen a large number of 582 installations in Kitfox aircrafts (including my last plane) and the engine compartment heat generated by the exhaust was never a real problem Regards Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab 2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Pat Reilly" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 06/01/2009 10:39 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Kitfoxers, I know I have seen the pros and cons of wrapping the exhaust with fiber glass exhaust insulating tape to reduce engine compartment temps. But, I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience pro or con that wrapped an exhaust on a 582. I have wrapped the down pipe and am considering blanketing the muffler also. I have used the fiber glass tape wrap on a street rod with good result. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:41 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Gary=2C OK thanks for info. My heater hoses run within a couple inches of t he down pipe and muffler. I hope there is enough space between them and the muffler.Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL : gary.algate@sandvik.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 09:44:16 +0930One thing yo u should consider is that the exhaust system on a two stroke engine also se rves as a conductor to radiate heat away from the engine block. Sometimes r estricting the heat can lead to additional problems. I have seen a large nu mber of 582 installations in Kitfox aircrafts (including my last plane) and the engine compartment heat generated by the exhaust was never a real prob lem Regards GaryGary AlgateClassic 4 Jab 2200Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655T his e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review=2C dissemination=2C distribution=2C or copying of this message by pe rsons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you h ave received this e-mail in error=2C kindly notify us immediately by teleph one or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this messag e which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.=93This year=2C in stead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail=2C we have made a contrib ution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Pat Reilly" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 06/01/2009 10:39 AM Please respond tokitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Kitfoxers=2C I know I have seen the pros and cons of wrapping the exhaust w ith fiber glass exhaust insulating tape to reduce engine compartment temps. But=2C I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience pro or con t hat wrapped an exhaust on a 582. I have wrapped the down pipe and am consid ering blanketing the muffler also. I have used the fiber glass tape wrap on a street rod with good result. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C ======================== ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:56 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap From: "Roger Lee" Hi Pat, I have a Flight Design CTSW. I have a 912ULS. I have a wrapped exhaust and so do quite a few other CT owners and it is fleet approved. My exhaust have been wrapped for 250 hrs. I wrapped my exhaust from the exhaust port down to the top of the muffler. It covers the knuckle just above the muffler. This helps keep any blow-by exhaust from blowing where I don't want it if it leaks and it keeps the radiated heat off any wires or hoses. It cuts down on the internal cowling temps to all the parts and when I pull the cowling off after a flight I can put my hand on the exhaust and not get burned. Proper tension on the exhaust springs is a must and really helps here. Our exhaust system is stainless steel and carbonization from higher temps is not the same problem as it is with just plain steel exhaust pipes. One thing to remember is not to over do the wrap. You only over lap the edges by about 3/8"-1/2" with the 2" wide wrap. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223056#223056 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:34 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally It is about time Rick, especially since you have serial number one. I could have sworn you had a nose dragger, did you change it? Congratulations on the nice flight and hope you have many more to come. Why don't you fly back north to Dogwood Airpark and convince my wife of how nice it is at your airpark in the land of warmth in the winter. I had to insulate the hangar just to make it tolerable in the winter time. Growing up in Georgia, I like the heat a lot better than the cold. Mike Logan Series 5 _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 9:56 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally All, Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, temperature about 70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona Beach), sky was high thin for the most part, so I decided, after 14 years and 9 months of building time, it was time to get this bird in the air. After reading about everyone's first flight posts, I guess I was the only guy to ever be nervous flying their machine for the first time. Like everyone here knows, the ground roll was quick and short. The liftoff smooth and wow, this airplane flies great. I would like to tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked (along with a few other minor things). It made for a few interesting moments, but attitude flying worked good, until the condensation on my windscreen made everything ahead invisible. Fortunately the side windows stayed clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a minute. I leveled at 1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and played for about 10 more minutes then headed back for a landing. It all went smooth considering I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and extra speed, just to be on the safe side. I would like to say it was a perfect landing, but it did a small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff speed. That had to be the best half hour of flying fun in a long time. Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these years. I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of others to thank for all their help and they know who they are. However, I want to especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife, for all 14 years and 9 months of patience and support. She is the greatest!!!! Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL = ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:49:44 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Pat There would be no problem in wrapping that particular area of the pipe if you have a concern but I would keep it to the minimum. You can also consider a heat shield (piece of stainless steel) spaced about 1/2" away from the exhaust and as long as there is some air flow between the shield and the pipe you will be amazed at how this reduces heat radiation. Hope this helps Regards Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 jab2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". patrick reilly Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 06/01/2009 11:12 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox matronics cc Subject RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Gary, OK thanks for info. My heater hoses run within a couple inches of the down pipe and muffler. I hope there is enough space between them and the muffler. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap From: gary.algate@sandvik.com One thing you should consider is that the exhaust system on a two stroke engine also serves as a conductor to radiate heat away from the engine block. Sometimes restricting the heat can lead to additional problems. I have seen a large number of 582 installations in Kitfox aircrafts (including my last plane) and the engine compartment heat generated by the exhaust was never a real problem Regards Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab 2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Pat Reilly" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 06/01/2009 10:39 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Kitfoxers, I know I have seen the pros and cons of wrapping the exhaust with fiber glass exhaust insulating tape to reduce engine compartment temps. But, I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience pro or con that wrapped an exhaust on a 582. I have wrapped the down pipe and am considering blanketing the muffler also. I have used the fiber glass tape wrap on a street rod with good result. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Roger I agree with your post and wasn't suggesting wrap couldn't be used - it's just that wrapping the entire muffler and pipe will retain a lot of latent heat in the engine - Regards Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200a Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Roger Lee" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 06/01/2009 11:19 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox-list@matronics.com cc Subject Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Exhaust wrap Hi Pat, I have a Flight Design CTSW. I have a 912ULS. I have a wrapped exhaust and so do quite a few other CT owners and it is fleet approved. My exhaust have been wrapped for 250 hrs. I wrapped my exhaust from the exhaust port down to the top of the muffler. It covers the knuckle just above the muffler. This helps keep any blow-by exhaust from blowing where I don't want it if it leaks and it keeps the radiated heat off any wires or hoses. It cuts down on the internal cowling temps to all the parts and when I pull the cowling off after a flight I can put my hand on the exhaust and not get burned. Proper tension on the exhaust springs is a must and really helps here. Our exhaust system is stainless steel and carbonization from higher temps is not the same problem as it is with just plain steel exhaust pipes. One thing to remember is not to over do the wrap. You only over lap the edges by about 3/8"-1/2" with the 2" wide wrap. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223056#223056 =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:44 PM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap My wife wrapped the exhaust on her 912 Pulsar and a crack developed underneath which we were not able to detect until too late. She is lucky to be alive. Mike Logan Series 5 956ML _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: 582 Exhaust wrap Kitfoxers, I know I have seen the pros and cons of wrapping the exhaust with fiber glass exhaust insulating tape to reduce engine compartment temps. But, I wanted to hear from someone with personal experience pro or con that wrapped an exhaust on a 582. I have wrapped the down pipe and am considering blanketing the muffler also. I have used the fiber glass tape wrap on a street rod with good result. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:16 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: 582 Exhaust wrap From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Mon, January 5, 2009 4:34 pm, patrick reilly wrote: > > Gary, OK thanks for info. My heater hoses run within a couple inches of the down pipe > and muffler. I hope there is enough space between them and the muffler.Pat ReillyMod 3 A reflector shield that has air blowing across it is very effective since radiative heat transfer is proportional to the 4th power of delta T. The temperature of the shield will be far lower than the exhaust and hence the heat transfer to the surface of the heater hoses will be significantly reduced. I'd have some worries about pin hole exhaust leaks forming into the fiberglass wrap that would convey some oil residue present in two stroke exhaust and eventually becoming a fire hazard. So, my feeling is fabricate some aluminum shields that are attached to the exhaust with SS clamps where protection is desired. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:53 PM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Lowell, LOOKING FORWARD TO IT. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL Do Not Archive On Jan 5, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > Rick, > > Thanks for the update and congratulations. The airplane looks nice. > Hope to be joining you soon. > > Lowell Fitt > Cameron Park, CA > Model IV-1200 R-912 UL > Currently focusing on the Left Wing cover soon. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 10:02 PM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally > > > Thanks for the info on your plane Richard. I always enjoy hearing > about > first flights and seeing how people set up their planes. > > Your plane looks and sounds great. > > I'm a bit disillusioned at the moment as after breaking a leaf in my > tail > spring I have wasted hours trying to source a replacement in > Australia or > getting one manufactured. As soon as the local spring manufacturer > saw it > they recognized it as being off a plane and refuse to make one for > me! > > John at Kitfox LLC is going to send one to me but the freight will > probably end up costing me more than the price of the spring itself > and I > am still going to be grounded for the next week. > > I found a supplier who will sell me the material (SUP 9) - 6 Mtr for > $20 - > but I am at a bit of a loss as to whether it has to be heat-treated > after > its bent. I have experimented before with hardening steel at home > and it > either comes out like putty, or glass....... > > The joys of experimental flying and I swear I never landed > hard..................................... > > Gary > > Gary Algate > Classic 4 Jab 2200 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. > Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > If > you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately > by > telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The > sender > does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the > contents of > this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. > ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we > have > made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy > Christmas". > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:00 PM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Mike, Thanks for the congrats. It is serial number 1 and it's always been a taildragger. I did want a nose dragger so I started my next project, an RV-7A. It's lots of fun so far. Come on down to Spruce Creek while ya'll are having a 'wintery mix'. Today was 80, but it's not always that warm. But no matter how bad it gets here, it's always better than up there. Show your wife our Fly-in. For the best look, Google us at Spruce Creek Fly In or come down and visit. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Jan 5, 2009, at 7:46 PM, Michael Logan wrote: > > Congratulations on the nice flight and hope you have many more to > come. > > Why don't you fly back north to Dogwood Airpark and convince my wife > of how nice it is at your airpark in the land of warmth in the > winter. I had to insulate the hangar just to make it tolerable in > the winter time. Growing up in Georgia, I like the heat a lot > better than the cold. > > Mike Logan > Series 5 > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:31 PM PST US From: John Allen Subject: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox This is to respond to 4 questions that have been asked about trailering a Kitfox. This applies to a Model IV. 1. Forward or backward? 2. Tail raised or down? 3. How to prevent flaperons from damaging vertical stab. 4. How to protect control surfaces from fluttering. My trailer was made by Skystar, which had just bought Kitfox during the time the kit was produced. So I suppose someone at Kitfox put some thought into it. It is designed to haul the plane with the tail forward, wings level. It goes onto the trailer tail first, pulled by a winch line on the tailwheel. The tailwheel follows a ramp up to near the front of the trailer, mains up steeper ramps when the plane is nearly on. To design for hauling forward would be difficult without unhitching the trailer. Once on, the tail is raised onto a solid block support that bolts onto the tail. That would seem to be enough to hold the plane securely without redundancy. The winch line is left on, as additional security, with the main wheels tight against their rear supports. The mainwheel ramps are then fastened up tight against the front of the main wheels. There are also 2 angle iron plates to prevent side-to-side movement of the tires. The aircraft is immobile on the trailer. I also use motorcycle tiedowns over each side of the main gear (Grove), one on each side to the loops provided on the trailer. Next, I fold the wings, which is easy for one person in the level position. I usually have burned the fuel down to < 1/2 tanks before putting the plane away (a good excuse for more flying, if nothing else). The tops of the wing struts are attached to tubing braces that bolt to the vertical stab. I also tie the flaperons together with a bungee as a redundancy and to prevent them from touching the vertical stab (which they clear when immobilized). Braces also attach from the front spars to the extra landing gear mounting tabs. I leave the elevators down, where gravity (and maybe wind) holds them. I put foam pipe wrap on the rudder and run several bungees from one tubing brace around the foam on the rudder, to the other brace, and push the rudder fully deflected to one side. This is necessary to keep it from flapping in the breeze. I have never towed long distances, as my hanger/barn is only about 4 miles away, but it tows fine locally this way at legal speeds, including across a bumpy railroad track. I am sure there are many ways to tow (and I have towed/hauled other planes other ways), but my method is mostly influenced by the design of the Skystar trailer. It is very stable and secure this way. I normally use a Jeep to tow it, which does block some wind, but have used a pickup, also. JA KF IV Speedster @ O70 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:21 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Rick, Congratulations on a safe and successful first flight! Lloyd C Mod 5 912ul IVO IFA Shooting for a Spring 1st Flight From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Weiss Richard Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 8:56 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally All, Well, today was as near perfect as it gets. Winds calm, temperature about 70 (sorry about that to everyone north of Daytona Beach), sky was high thin for the most part, so I decided, after 14 years and 9 months of building time, it was time to get this bird in the air. After reading about everyone's first flight posts, I guess I was the only guy to ever be nervous flying their machine for the first time. Like everyone here knows, the ground roll was quick and short. The liftoff smooth and wow, this airplane flies great. I would like to tell you how fast I was going, but my airspeed indicator never worked (along with a few other minor things). It made for a few interesting moments, but attitude flying worked good, until the condensation on my windscreen made everything ahead invisible. Fortunately the side windows stayed clear. The windscreen cleared up after about a minute. I leveled at 1000 feet and did some turns, slow flight, and played for about 10 more minutes then headed back for a landing. It all went smooth considering I held used half flaps (11 degrees) and extra speed, just to be on the safe side. I would like to say it was a perfect landing, but it did a small 'skip' before rolling to turnoff speed. That had to be the best half hour of flying fun in a long time. Thanks to everyone on this list for all of your help over all these years. I hope I can pay it forward some time. There are a lot of others to thank for all their help and they know who they are. However, I want to especially thank my former girlfriend, now wife, for all 14 years and 9 months of patience and support. She is the greatest!!!! Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL = Checked by AVG. 2:14 PM Checked by AVG. 4:32 PM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:47 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: 582 Exhaust wrap Paul=2C Not too sure what the 4th power of delta T is=2C but I got the idea . Thanks for the info. I think SS shields would be better idea than wrap.Pa t ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> Date: Mon=2C 5 Jan 2009 18:36:50 - 0800> Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: 582 Exhaust wrap> From: paul@eucleides.com> Franz - Merlin GT" > > On Mon=2C January 5=2C 2009 4:34 pm=2C patrick reilly wrote:> >> > Gary=2C OK thanks for info. My heater ho ses run within a couple inches of the down pipe> > and muffler. I hope ther e is enough space between them and the muffler.Pat ReillyMod 3> > A reflect or shield that has air blowing across it is very effective since radiative> heat transfer is proportional to the 4th power of delta T. The temperature of the> shield will be far lower than the exhaust and hence the heat trans fer to the surface> of the heater hoses will be significantly reduced.> > I 'd have some worries about pin hole exhaust leaks forming into the fibergla ss wrap> that would convey some oil residue present in two stroke exhaust a nd eventually> becoming a fire hazard.> > So=2C my feeling is fabricate som e aluminum shields that are attached to the exhaust> with SS clamps where p rotection is desired.> > -- > Paul A. Franz> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/ Merlin GT> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP> Bellevue WA> 425.241.1618 Cell> ================> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: RE: 582 Exhaust wrap From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." On Mon, January 5, 2009 8:31 pm, patrick reilly wrote: > > Paul, Not too sure what the 4th power of delta T is, but I got the idea. Thanks for > the info. I think SS shields would be better idea than wrap. Delta T means temperature difference. Here it would mean the temperature difference between the exhaust and the heater hoses. The 4th power would mean that temperature difference raised to the 4th power. In other words if the absolute temperature difference is double, then the amount of heat transferred is 16 times as much. It's much worse than that though. Lets say the temperature of the exhaust pipe is 1100 F and the water hose surface is 250 F without a shield and with a shield the outer temperature of the shield is 400 F then the heat transfer reduction is the ratio of the absolute temperature differences raised to the 4th power: ((1100 - 250 + 459) / (400 - 250 + 459)) ** 4 = 21.3 times as much heat transfer to the hoses without the shield as with the shield. (The 459 converts F to R - Rankine, absolute temperature) Note this simplified model doesn't take into consideration geometry effects but they would only make this difference even larger since radiation from a cylinder is inversely proportional to the square of the radius. I picked numbers to for illustration purposes, and probably with a shield the surface of the water hoses would be even less than 250 F. I think I would use shields made of some soft and malleable aluminum alloy clamping them with SS hose clamps, keeping the space between the shield and the exhaust pipe sufficient to get good airflow. The aluminum would weigh less and if you use big radii on the bends and cuts this will resist cracking better than using SS. I would use 3/32" sheet in 6 in sections bent to wrap at about 3/4" greater radius than the exhaust pipe with three bent down 3/4" U-shaped tabs on each end to clamp the shield to the pipe where the shield goes around at least 180 of the exhaust pipe. -- Paul A. Franz, P.E. 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