---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/07/09: 69 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:38 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 2. 05:43 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Chuck Popenoe) 3. 06:29 AM - Re: Towing a Kitfox (Noel Loveys) 4. 06:34 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (Weiss Richard) 5. 06:58 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (fox5flyer) 6. 07:11 AM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Noel Loveys) 7. 07:12 AM - Re: Towing a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 8. 07:26 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (akflyer) 9. 07:35 AM - Re: Towing a Kitfox (Noel Loveys) 10. 07:41 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 11. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 12. 08:20 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (paul wilson) 13. 08:20 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Lowell Fitt) 14. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Vic Baker) 15. 08:38 AM - Re: First Flight - finally (Lynn Matteson) 16. 08:40 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 17. 08:48 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 18. 08:55 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 19. 09:22 AM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Marco Menezes) 20. 09:28 AM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (akflyer) 21. 09:33 AM - Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 22. 10:09 AM - Re: Flight Simulator (akflyer) 23. 10:15 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (akflyer) 24. 10:52 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (815TL) 25. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 26. 11:09 AM - Re: Flight Simulator (815TL) 27. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 28. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 29. 12:55 PM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (paul wilson) 30. 12:57 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (815TL) 31. 12:57 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (akflyer) 32. 01:33 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (Steven Didier) 33. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 34. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Larry Huntley) 35. 01:58 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (Michel Verheughe) 36. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 37. 02:08 PM - Kitfox lV Speedster For Sale (wannafly) 38. 02:09 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Noel Loveys) 39. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 40. 02:13 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Vic Baker) 41. 02:22 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (mic thiessen) 42. 02:27 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Noel Loveys) 43. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Michael Gibbs) 44. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 45. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 46. 02:43 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (Noel Loveys) 47. 02:46 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Larry Huntley) 48. 02:46 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (akflyer) 49. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Noel Loveys) 50. 02:48 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Bob Brennan) 51. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Noel Loveys) 52. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 53. 03:10 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Noel Loveys) 54. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Noel Loveys) 55. 03:36 PM - Re: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 56. 03:49 PM - Re: Towing a Kitfox (John W. Hart) 57. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 58. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (kirk hull) 59. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Bob Brennan) 60. 04:20 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (815TL) 61. 04:32 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (patrick reilly) 62. 04:43 PM - Re: Flight Simulator (akflyer) 63. 05:10 PM - Fw: Flight Simulator (Pete Christensen) 64. 05:45 PM - Re: Towing a Kitfox (Noel Loveys) 65. 05:48 PM - Fuel monitor (Larry Huntley) 66. 05:50 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (Noel Loveys) 67. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: Flight Simulator (patrick reilly) 68. 07:52 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Lynn Matteson) 69. 08:44 PM - Re: sight glass fuel indicator? (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:21 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the original engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the frame. Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red spar brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in transit. Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low as tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in previous posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is due to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a crosswind or updraft. I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the original designers intended - wings low into the wind. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 06 January 2009 11:14 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox The idea was good but towing a plane on its own main gear has a raft of other problems that have been discussed to death here. You are spot on though in noticing they always towed with the wings level. If memory serves correctly the very first Avid was towed halfway across the continent and back on its own gear. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:50 AM PST US From: "Chuck Popenoe" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Also biting my tongue! I have towed my Avid for 15 years backwards with the wings level at 65-70 mph and have never noticed any wind induced oscillations except from truck wake vortices. Of course, even with the wings level, the angle of attack is not zero due to the downwash from the towing vehicle,, which applies a small downward force to the folded wings.Far more damaging are the inertial forces on the wing hinges from bouncing down the road. This did cause the wing carry-through tube in my bird to fatigue which I luckedly discovered upon preflight. I repaired that and beefed up both hinge tubes with welded gussets and doubling up the tube internally. Adding braces to triangulate the foldback struts also limits any movement due to the inertial loads. See the photos under Pops' Avid A. Towing is harder on the plane than anything except crashing! Pops Flying and grinning since 1956 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:39 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox He would need wheel pants and DOT spec tires (this side of the pond). Some jurisdictions require his plane to be licensed as a trailer and have appropriate signal lights added to it. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I have a friend who tows his model V tail first using the tow bar as designed. Seems to work just fine for him. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:46 AM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Best wrote: > So you continued to fly test manoeuvres despite a lack of airspeed > indication? Yes. The maneuvers were necessary to return to the airport and land anyway. (Turns, slow flight, etc.) Lack of an airspeed indicator is not the end of the world. Just had to look outside at the wingtip and see the angle it made with the horizon. Also, your senses come into play. Air noise levels, seat of the pants, visual cues, engine sound, etc. It really was a non issue. You're in the air, flying fine, and you know you have to return to earth. What would you do differently? Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:31 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally Agreed, Rick. During takeoff I don't look at my airspeed indicator as it's all done by "seat of the pants". Twice, in the past, after takeoff I found I had no airspeed. However, flying the airplane was not an issue as I simply maneuvered back to my airstrip, landed, and determined the problem. Both times it was caused from me forgetting to put my pitot cover on and after only a couple of days a bug (of some sort) had laid an egg inside it that turned into a little green maggot that completely the tube. Simple fix. Of course, I'm much more careful now about remembering that cover. Also, congrats on your completion and first flight, Rick. Kudos to you for sticking with it for all of these years. Many would not have ever completed it. Keep us in the loop regarding your fly off. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: Weiss Richard To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Best wrote: So you continued to fly test manoeuvres despite a lack of airspeed indication? Yes. The maneuvers were necessary to return to the airport and land anyway. (Turns, slow flight, etc.) Lack of an airspeed indicator is not the end of the world. Just had to look outside at the wingtip and see the angle it made with the horizon. Also, your senses come into play. Air noise levels, seat of the pants, visual cues, engine sound, etc. It really was a non issue. You're in the air, flying fine, and you know you have to return to earth. What would you do differently? Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL = ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:21 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those vids on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... (Sorry, thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 U.S. this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . I'm going to be looking into this one. Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 912 almost installed Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:36 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I have the 210 and love it. Seems to be pretty dang accurate. It says within 5% out of the box, and it can be calibrated with a known quantity to get it within 2%. So far I have not seen a need to calibrate it any closer. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223266#223266 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:16 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox Good info Noel, that's the first time I've heard some actual facts. I asked as many authorities as I could find about how to legally tow my KFII on the factory-supplied towbar and no one could answer, or even refer me to someone who could. Due to that and the stress I knew I would put on the main gear with the poor roads in rural PA I opted to get the flatbed trailer instead. Plus any excuse to buy a new toy is a good one. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 9:28 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox He would need wheel pants and DOT spec tires (this side of the pond). Some jurisdictions require his plane to be licensed as a trailer and have appropriate signal lights added to it. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I have a friend who tows his model V tail first using the tow bar as designed. Seems to work just fine for him. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:59 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox From: "akflyer" matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with > the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the original > engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the frame. > > Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red spar > brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop > vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces > that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in > transit. > > Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low as > tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was > designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in previous > posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. > > The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the > owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is due > to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and > aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a crosswind > or updraft. > > I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to > eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the > original designers intended - wings low into the wind. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would be real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:38 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I've only towed my plane a few times on wheels. I used a converted double snowmobile trailer. The deciding factors were the need for DOT certified tires and the fact the trailer has a lot wider axel so the chances of having an overturn are a lot less. The extra suspension of the trailer was a bonus. Sigtaturea Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 912 almost installed Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:42 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox Good info Noel, that's the first time I've heard some actual facts. I asked as many authorities as I could find about how to legally tow my KFII on the factory-supplied towbar and no one could answer, or even refer me to someone who could. Due to that and the stress I knew I would put on the main gear with the poor roads in rural PA I opted to get the flatbed trailer instead. Plus any excuse to buy a new toy is a good one. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 9:28 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox He would need wheel pants and DOT spec tires (this side of the pond). Some jurisdictions require his plane to be licensed as a trailer and have appropriate signal lights added to it. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I have a friend who tows his model V tail first using the tow bar as designed. Seems to work just fine for him. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:01 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Thanks for the facts Pops and sorry about the tongue, mine gets pretty sore too trying to sort out facts from opinion here. After hearing that so many Kitfoxers trailer their birds with the wings level I am wondering if I should modify my rig to do the same, but so far have only seen evidence to the contrary. Could I ask for a few more facts about your experience please? You say you had wing carry-through tube metal fatigue after 15 years of trailering with wings level but attribute that to "bouncing down the road" rather than aerodynamic effects, and have never noticed "induced oscillations" - I assume in your rear view mirror while travelling at speed. Obviously (to me at least) you would have to already have catastrophic failure of the attach points to see physical movement from that distance and would not be able to see loads capable of causing metal fatigue, don't you agree? And since you did have failure and did not see the cause the question is rhetorical. If I noticed any effect from truck wake vortices, other than the entire trailer being pushed to one side, I would seriously rethink my rigging. Questions - do you install front spar braces while towing? Before the failures? What kind of trailer do you use? What kind of suspension does it have, since you believe it is road bounces that caused your failures? I use a 21ft car trailer with tandem axles and load-levelling leafspring suspension, although since the trailer is rated for 7,000 lb I suspect the suspension doesn't do a lot for my 500 lb bird. Has anyone else on the list had, or know of, similar failures at those particular points? Or know of any factory ADs addressing that type of failure? If anyone had a similar failure - to what did you attribute the cause? And obviously do you trailer, and how? A lack of response to the above questions obviously does not prove anything, but Pop's fatigue failures (your plane, not you Pops!) is exactly what I would expect given the way the plane was rigged for trailering, and exactly what I wish to avoid. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Popenoe Sent: 07 January 2009 8:43 am Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Also biting my tongue! I have towed my Avid for 15 years backwards with the wings level at 65-70 mph and have never noticed any wind induced oscillations except from truck wake vortices. Of course, even with the wings level, the angle of attack is not zero due to the downwash from the towing vehicle,, which applies a small downward force to the folded wings.Far more damaging are the inertial forces on the wing hinges from bouncing down the road. This did cause the wing carry-through tube in my bird to fatigue which I luckedly discovered upon preflight. I repaired that and beefed up both hinge tubes with welded gussets and doubling up the tube internally. Adding braces to triangulate the foldback struts also limits any movement due to the inertial loads. See the photos under Pops' Avid A. Towing is harder on the plane than anything except crashing! Pops Flying and grinning since 1956 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:06 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, not a 5th wheel! If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a bar that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off the road. Do not archive Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with > the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the original > engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the frame. > > Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red spar > brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop > vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces > that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in > transit. > > Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low as > tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was > designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in previous > posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. > > The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the > owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is due > to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and > aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a crosswind > or updraft. > > I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to > eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the > original designers intended - wings low into the wind. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would be real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:04 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Way back when -- Skystar was queried at either Osh or at the flyinn? about trailering an possible damage to the plane. At that time Skystar was using an enclosed locally built trailer. They had instrumented the trailer & plane and the result were acceleration spikes that exceeded the calculated plane design limits. The conclusion was that any trailer must be designed with a very soft ride and driven at a very slow speed. They left it up to the builder to go from there. Paul ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:46 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox All this talk about trailering kitfoxes reminds me of a time when I was in Dental School lectures and after an instructor would explain a time worn dental procedure, there was always someone who would raise his hand and give his reasons why the procedure wouldn't work - this is a true story. I don't have a trailer so for me this is all really theoritical, but Denney built trailers that towed tail first with the tailwheel elevated, Skystar did the same. I am absolutely certain that if there were issues with this method, the opinions would be backed up by at least one certified event - lots of years and miles here. The only instance of an issue directly involved with trailering I can recall (other than the all too frequent hangar rash type incidental damage) was when a guy was trailering his airplane to the airport nose first and the straps holding the wings back failed. In that instance, aerodynamic forces unfolded the wings and they extended and mowed down a couple of roadside signs including a stop sign. I don't know if this report is in the archives or was on the list long before Matronics. This instance was usually brought up during periodic discussions of what would happen if the forward spar attach clevis should come out in flight. The consesus is that aerodynamic forces would hold the wings forward in a flying configuration. As chuck mentions and this has been discussed many times before, the sprung weight and the spring capacity is the greatest issue in trailering. This is why most who have built a Kitfox dedicated trailer has opted for a boat trailer as the base structure- something that is designed to carry about 1000 lbs. rather than a two ton car. This also reminds me of the time I went on a bigrig delivery with a long haul driver freind. We dropped the trailer once and rode the tractor to find some food. Without the weight of the trailer, it was as if there was absolutely no springs on the tractor. Put a Kitfox on a flat bed car hauler and effectively no springs. And Bob, regarding your latest post. Yes it was designed that way but imagine the structure required to put the wings at any other angle. The design was simply to put the attatch points at solid locations - bottom longerons and at a bulkhead - and use a simple bar for the hook up. The wing angle just happened. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Popenoe" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Also biting my tongue! I have towed my Avid for 15 years backwards with the wings level at 65-70 mph and have never noticed any wind induced oscillations except from truck wake vortices. Of course, even with the wings level, the angle of attack is not zero due to the downwash from the towing vehicle,, which applies a small downward force to the folded wings.Far more damaging are the inertial forces on the wing hinges from bouncing down the road. This did cause the wing carry-through tube in my bird to fatigue which I luckedly discovered upon preflight. I repaired that and beefed up both hinge tubes with welded gussets and doubling up the tube internally. Adding braces to triangulate the foldback struts also limits any movement due to the inertial loads. See the photos under Pops' Avid A. Towing is harder on the plane than anything except crashing! Pops Flying and grinning since 1956 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:09 AM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded position while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from KitfoxAircraft. Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the > hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, > not a 5th wheel! > > If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a > bar > that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch > ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most > class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off > the > road. > > Do not archive > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer > Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > > matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with >> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >> original >> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the > frame. >> >> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red > spar >> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces >> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >> transit. >> >> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low > as >> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in > previous >> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >> >> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >> due >> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a > crosswind >> or updraft. >> >> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >> >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -- > > > Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice > burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would > be > real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:38:14 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: First Flight - finally I agree....at one point in my training (in my Kitfox) my instructor reached over and covered the ASI, and told me to land, which I did because by then it was registered in the seat of my pants just how the plane should feel when it is at the right speed to land. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:34 AM, Weiss Richard wrote: > > On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:08 AM, Patrick Best wrote: > >> So you continued to fly test manoeuvres despite a lack of airspeed >> indication? > > Yes. The maneuvers were necessary to return to the airport and > land anyway. (Turns, slow flight, etc.) > > Lack of an airspeed indicator is not the end of the world. Just > had to look outside at the wingtip and see the angle it made with > the horizon. Also, your senses come into play. Air noise levels, > seat of the pants, visual cues, engine sound, etc. It really was a > non issue. > > You're in the air, flying fine, and you know you have to return to > earth. What would you do differently? > > Rick Weiss > N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS > SkyStar S/N 1 > Port Orange, FL > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:53 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Good input Lowell. And yes I can "imagine the structure required to put the wings at any other angle" = a simple bend in the bar with gussets or more load-bearing = an extra piece welded vertically to form an "A" to bring the longeron above horizontal and the wings level. Not a big challenge for a welder and probably more stable than the very long single bar that I have. And saying "the wing angle just happened" negates the original poster who said the original engineers must have known what they were doing and who are we to question. Sorry, not convinced, but nice try. I'm just a trouble-maker at heart ;-) If I had gone to Dental School I would say "I was that guy" Do you have any pictures, diagrams, specs, or anything on the "Denney built trailers that towed tail first with the tailwheel elevated, Skystar did the same" please? Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: 07 January 2009 11:17 am Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox All this talk about trailering kitfoxes reminds me of a time when I was in Dental School lectures and after an instructor would explain a time worn dental procedure, there was always someone who would raise his hand and give his reasons why the procedure wouldn't work - this is a true story. I don't have a trailer so for me this is all really theoritical, but Denney built trailers that towed tail first with the tailwheel elevated, Skystar did the same. I am absolutely certain that if there were issues with this method, the opinions would be backed up by at least one certified event - lots of years and miles here. The only instance of an issue directly involved with trailering I can recall (other than the all too frequent hangar rash type incidental damage) was when a guy was trailering his airplane to the airport nose first and the straps holding the wings back failed. In that instance, aerodynamic forces unfolded the wings and they extended and mowed down a couple of roadside signs including a stop sign. I don't know if this report is in the archives or was on the list long before Matronics. This instance was usually brought up during periodic discussions of what would happen if the forward spar attach clevis should come out in flight. The consesus is that aerodynamic forces would hold the wings forward in a flying configuration. As chuck mentions and this has been discussed many times before, the sprung weight and the spring capacity is the greatest issue in trailering. This is why most who have built a Kitfox dedicated trailer has opted for a boat trailer as the base structure- something that is designed to carry about 1000 lbs. rather than a two ton car. This also reminds me of the time I went on a bigrig delivery with a long haul driver freind. We dropped the trailer once and rode the tractor to find some food. Without the weight of the trailer, it was as if there was absolutely no springs on the tractor. Put a Kitfox on a flat bed car hauler and effectively no springs. And Bob, regarding your latest post. Yes it was designed that way but imagine the structure required to put the wings at any other angle. The design was simply to put the attatch points at solid locations - bottom longerons and at a bulkhead - and use a simple bar for the hook up. The wing angle just happened. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Popenoe" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:42 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Also biting my tongue! I have towed my Avid for 15 years backwards with the wings level at 65-70 mph and have never noticed any wind induced oscillations except from truck wake vortices. Of course, even with the wings level, the angle of attack is not zero due to the downwash from the towing vehicle,, which applies a small downward force to the folded wings.Far more damaging are the inertial forces on the wing hinges from bouncing down the road. This did cause the wing carry-through tube in my bird to fatigue which I luckedly discovered upon preflight. I repaired that and beefed up both hinge tubes with welded gussets and doubling up the tube internally. Adding braces to triangulate the foldback struts also limits any movement due to the inertial loads. See the photos under Pops' Avid A. Towing is harder on the plane than anything except crashing! Pops Flying and grinning since 1956 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:03 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I would consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings level"! What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I promise not to start another thread about them.... Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker Sent: 07 January 2009 11:22 am Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded position while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from KitfoxAircraft. Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the > hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, > not a 5th wheel! > > If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a > bar > that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch > ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most > class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off > the > road. > > Do not archive > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer > Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > > matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with >> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >> original >> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the > frame. >> >> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red > spar >> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces >> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >> transit. >> >> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low > as >> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in > previous >> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >> >> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >> due >> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a > crosswind >> or updraft. >> >> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >> >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -- > > > Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice > burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would > be > real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:44 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox So they only measured road shock and nothing to do with aerodynamic effects of an open trailer? Glad I trailer using a tandem axle with load-leveling suspension, it goes through potholes one wheel at a time and very little effect on the bed. Can't afford "fully enclosed" though. I assume their test trailer was single axle? bob _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson Sent: 07 January 2009 11:19 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox Way back when -- Skystar was queried at either Osh or at the flyinn? about trailering an possible damage to the plane. At that time Skystar was using an enclosed locally built trailer. They had instrumented the trailer & plane and the result were acceleration spikes that exceeded the calculated plane design limits. The conclusion was that any trailer must be designed with a very soft ride and driven at a very slow speed. They left it up to the builder to go from there. Paul ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:10 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? Noel: I've had one of these in-Lola for 2 years now. Cheap and easy to in stall. Displays fuel burn, gallons used, gallons remaining. It's so accurat e I've gotten to-using-fuel burn instead of-rpms as primary power set ting indication. You'll love it. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch- --- On Wed, 1/7/09, Noel Loveys wrote: From: Noel Loveys Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those vids on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... (Sorry, thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 U.S .. this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . I'm going to be looking into this one. Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 912 almost installed Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:36 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I have the 210 and love it. Seems to be pretty dang accurate. It says within 5% out of the box, and it can be calibrated with a known quantity to get it within 2%. So far I have not seen a need to calibrate it any closer .. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223266#223266 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:55 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: "akflyer" Float Flyr wrote: > I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those vids > on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those > units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... (Sorry, > thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still > accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 U.S. > this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . I'm > going to be looking into this one. > > > > > Noel Loveys > Campbellton, NL, Canada > CDN AME intern, PP-Rec > C-FINB, Kitfox III-A > 912 almost installed > Aerocet 1100 floats > noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > > > -- That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:26 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator I hope this isn't too off topic for a Kitfox forum but does anyone use MS Flight Simulator X? I had hoped to get some simulator time in while the weather is so gruesome but it is unusable on my PC. I bought FSX, then the Saitek Aviator joystick to hopefully make it work better, then more Ram, then a new video card, and most recently the Acceleration Expansion Pack. But nothing gets it going faster than about 2-3 frames per second, even at minimal settings, which is unusable. MS lists minimum requirements as Good, Better, Best - my PC falls into the Best category with a 3g P4, 1.5g Ram, and new 512m GeForce video card. MS support have been very helpful so far and my problem has been "elevated" to the highest level as I await yet another phone call from them. My question is simply - is anyone using FSX successfully? Thanks, Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "akflyer" I dont have any problems with it on my laptop, but I bought it knowing I would be gaming with it so I built it for that purpose. I can run all settings on max without a hick up -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223365#223365 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:38 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox From: "akflyer" matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I would > consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope > this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings level"! > > What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I > promise not to start another thread about them.... > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- you are right, the wings are not perfectly level, but the tail is not sitting on the deck either.... I have not put the incidence meter on it so I cant give you a exact degree. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223366#223366 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02155_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:42 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox From: "815TL" Lynn Matteson wrote: > Out of curiosity, what kind of tailwheel spring do/did you have, and > how many leaves? Count all the leaves, whether or not they are long > or short. Or do you have the one-piece Grove spring? > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire > ignition system; > also building a new pair of snow skis > do not archive > > I have a dual leaf spring, with a Maul wheel I believe. When trailering I did prop a 2x4 under the leaf spring attatch point so that the wheel and spring were not taking all the bouncing. > > Andrew > > > > > On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:47 AM, 815TL wrote: > > > > > > > > Ya know, I never realy gave it any thought as to if the wings > > should be level or not, or wind preassure on the top of the wings. > > It all makes sense. That being said, I trailered mine over 1100 > > miles with the tailwheel down on the deck. Most of the ime I was > > doing 65-75 on the highway. As far as I can tell nothing was > > damaged. So it may put more stresses on the top of the wing in the > > tail down configuration, but the bird seems to handle it just fine. > > > > Andrew > > 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 23118#223118 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223372#223372 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:06 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Thanks for the reply Leonard, but how does your laptop compare to my PC spec-wise? Mine: 3ghz Pentium4, 1.5g Ram, great big disk, and new 512m GeForce 8400GS video card Running at default settings I get 2 to 3 frames per second (hit shift-z twice to display real time fps), at absolute minimums the max I get is 6 to 7 fps, at high settings it goes into seconds per frame and control inputs can take many seconds if not completely ignored. What frame rates can you get? Thanks for taking the time to compare, I'm needing as much info as possible for when(if) MS support ever calls back. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 07 January 2009 1:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I dont have any problems with it on my laptop, but I bought it knowing I would be gaming with it so I built it for that purpose. I can run all settings on max without a hick up -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223365#223365 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:45 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "815TL" Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:51 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most likely won't run X-plane well either. bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:59 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Leonard - from the picture Vic Baker sent(attached) I would guess the wings are between 5 and 10 degrees down into the wind, in my opinion a good angle for trailering but certainly nowhere near "level". In my most humble opinion "level" means level means 0 degrees to the wind, which I have been trying to determine is a bad thing or not. Trailering using the factory-supplied towbar or tailwheel-down "on the deck" puts the wing incidence angle at between 10 and 15 degrees down I estimate, and should be towed within the factory recommended range of no more than 40mph. If I were to tow my bird any distance or at any speed I would install the braces and raise the tailwheel to between 5 and 10 degrees down, but never to "level". Kirk Hull's picture (hope you don't mind me attaching here Kirk) shows a setup where the wings are level. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 07 January 2009 1:15 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I would > consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope > this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings level"! > > What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I > promise not to start another thread about them.... > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- you are right, the wings are not perfectly level, but the tail is not sitting on the deck either.... I have not put the incidence meter on it so I cant give you a exact degree. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223366#223366 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02155_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:03 PM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox For my long journey to the new home I used a tandem axle car hauler & low pressure tires. The trailer had 4' high sides so I strapped the wings to the side with lots of padding. I strapped the fuge down and supported the tail so the wheel had no load, Then I covered the whole trailer with a trap to get rid of the air loads. Sorry I don't remember details about their trailer. The newer trailer with cabinets inside was a tandem unit. Paul At 08:55 AM 1/7/2009, you wrote: >So they only measured road shock and nothing to do with aerodynamic >effects of an open trailer? > >Glad I trailer using a tandem axle with load-leveling suspension, it >goes through potholes one wheel at a time and very little effect on >the bed. Can't afford "fully enclosed" though. I assume their test >trailer was single axle? > >bob > > >---------- >From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul wilson >Sent: 07 January 2009 11:19 am >To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Trailering a Kitfox > > >Way back when -- Skystar was queried >at either Osh or at the flyinn? about trailering an possible damage to >the plane. At that time Skystar was using an enclosed locally built >trailer. They had instrumented the trailer & plane and the result >were acceleration spikes that exceeded the calculated plane design >limits. The conclusion was that any trailer must be designed with a very >soft ride and driven at a very slow speed. They left it up to the builder >to go from there. >Paul > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:08 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "815TL" matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment > I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or > some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most > likely won't run X-plane well either. > > bob > Do not archive > > -- I have a fairly impressive computer, but was never able to run FSX at a decent frame rate either. What video card do you have, Nvidia or ATI based, and what chipset? I believe that FSX runs in DirectX, and X-plane runs in OpenGL or something equivelent. When I was running an ATI card, I had good preformance in Direct X, but realy poor in OpenGL. I switched to a Nvidia based card and the OpenGL preformance went way up, but I did notice that some DirectX games slowed down, maybe 5-10%. It was worth it to get the much better OGL preformance though. Let me fire up FSX tonight and play with some settings and see if we can't get you figured out. One thing to turn down, is water textures, and shadow complexity. They are frame rate killers. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223392#223392 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:26 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "akflyer" matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Thanks for the reply Leonard, but how does your laptop compare to my PC > spec-wise? > Mine: 3ghz Pentium4, 1.5g Ram, great big disk, and new 512m GeForce 8400GS > video card > > Running at default settings I get 2 to 3 frames per second (hit shift-z > twice to display real time fps), at absolute minimums the max I get is 6 to > 7 fps, at high settings it goes into seconds per frame and control inputs > can take many seconds if not completely ignored. What frame rates can you > get? > > Thanks for taking the time to compare, I'm needing as much info as possible > for when(if) MS support ever calls back. > > bob > > -- Sager NP9262 17" Wide Viewing Angles WSXGA+ LCD with super glossy surface (1920X1200) Intel core 2 quad processor Q9450 / 12 mb L2 Cache, 2.66 Ghz, 1333 Mhz FSB Nvidia GeForce 9800M GT / 512 MB DDR3 Vid Memory Vista home Premium 4 GB Dual Channel DDR2 SD RAM @ 800 Mhz (2X 2048 MB) 200 & 320 GB 7200 RPM SATA 300 HD 8X DVD +_ R/RW/ 4X +DL Super Multi Drive Intel Pro Wireless 4965AGN 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module Internal BlueTooth Module -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223393#223393 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:32 PM PST US From: Steven Didier Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator I use FSX along with Xplane 9 on my iMac FSX under Bootcamp in XP with no hiccups full frame rates and all of the eye candy turned on. I can't, however, run it in a virual machine in eithr VmWare or Parallels at an acceptable setting. Steve Didier C172 Idaho On Jan 7, 2009, at 9:32 AM, Bob Brennan wrote: > I hope this isn't too off topic for a Kitfox forum but does anyone > use MS Flight Simulator X? I had hoped to get some simulator time in > while the weather is so gruesome but it is unusable on my PC. I > bought FSX, then the Saitek Aviator joystick to hopefully make it > work better, then more Ram, then a new video card, and most recently > the Acceleration Expansion Pack. But nothing gets it going faster > than about 2-3 frames per second, even at minimal settings, which is > unusable. > > MS lists minimum requirements as Good, Better, Best - my PC falls > into the Best category with a 3g P4, 1.5g Ram, and new 512m GeForce > video card. > > MS support have been very helpful so far and my problem has been > "elevated" to the highest level as I await yet another phone call > from them. My question is simply - is anyone using FSX successfully? > > Thanks, > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:34 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Video card is brand new Nvidea GeForce 8400 GS on an ATI bus which is all my motherboard has on it other than AGP. DirectX is the latest downloaded from M$ yesterday. FSX has service packs 1 & 2 installed from the Acceleration disk. I tried turning off every option in the Custom Settings dialog, off if I can and absolute minimum otherwise, lowest resolution on the list. Target frame rate is 17, the best it will actually do in a very blurry dull jerky world is 7. Still waiting for the call from the M$ expert who promised to call at noon (is now 4:30 EST here). I'm glad real airplanes aren't this much trouble! Do not archive bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 3:57 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment > I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or > some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most > likely won't run X-plane well either. > > bob > Do not archive > > -- I have a fairly impressive computer, but was never able to run FSX at a decent frame rate either. What video card do you have, Nvidia or ATI based, and what chipset? I believe that FSX runs in DirectX, and X-plane runs in OpenGL or something equivelent. When I was running an ATI card, I had good preformance in Direct X, but realy poor in OpenGL. I switched to a Nvidia based card and the OpenGL preformance went way up, but I did notice that some DirectX games slowed down, maybe 5-10%. It was worth it to get the much better OGL preformance though. Let me fire up FSX tonight and play with some settings and see if we can't get you figured out. One thing to turn down, is water textures, and shadow complexity. They are frame rate killers. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223392#223392 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:45 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? G'day Foxy Folks, I called to order this fuel monitor. I see they also list a transducer. Is this needed? The girl at the phone thought so. Makes a substantial difference in price. Also, how do these hook up? Do they go in the line ,or around it or ??? Sounds great to me as I am in the final processes of putting my Kitfox back in the air after a fuel shortage off field landing. Thanx for the info. Larry Larry Huntley Dundee,NY 4-1200 EA81 Amax redrive Warp Drive prop ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > > Float Flyr wrote: >> I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those >> vids >> on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those >> units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... >> (Sorry, >> thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still >> accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 >> U.S. >> this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . >> I'm >> going to be looking into this one. >> >> >> >> >> Noel Loveys >> Campbellton, NL, Canada >> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec >> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A >> 912 almost installed >> Aerocet 1100 floats >> noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> >> >> >> -- > > > That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it > last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open > your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise > speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and > can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:49 AM ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:48 PM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > From: 815TL [lawrenceaw@corning.com] > Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better > simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame > rate, and feels more 'real'. Well, X-Plane feels more real, that's for sure. But MS FS is "nicer" in the way that it has many fine eye-candy features and a very large existing database of airfields and sceneries. The difference in the simulators models is that MS FS use what can be called "look-up tables." When you build an aircraft, you enter the stall speed, Vne, etc. and for speeds in-between, the values are interpolated. X-Plane, on the other hand, uses what is called "blade theory." It takes any part of the aircraft into an airfoil with own lift, drag and moment. Then it goes through each computation for each frame refresh. When you build an aircraft in X-Plane, you have to enter what you think is the closest model then you go and fly. If the aircraft then stalls at the speed intended then you are very lucky! You can then work with the actual airfoil, the wash-out, the CoG, learn about aviation and see how the model changes. I often work with X-Plane, PlaneMaker and AirfoilMaker programs open at the same time. Tiny adjustments, testing, back to the drawing board ... you get the picture! With MS FS, if you enter a value for stall speed, the aircraft will always stall exactly at that speed! X-Plane is in fact a digital wind tunnel. Even small change in the step of the fuselage of a seaplane makes great difference. It is truly a wind (and water) modeller. However, two warnings about simulators. - None of them can simulate properly a spin. That is because data about airfoil is known for "normal" angles; not when the apparent wind meets the wing and perhaps an angle of 80 degrees and certainly not when e.g. because of the spinning motion, one of the horizontal stabs is in the "shade" of the tail. The only way to simulate that is with Computerized Fluid Dynamics (CFD) and that just can't be done in real time. - You can set the angle of view of the screen as you want. But if you do a bit of geometry, in order to match the actual angle the screen makes and your perspective view of everything around you, the angle should be put to perhaps 25 or 30 degrees and that's too little to be able to see the panel. Imagine you are in your Kitfox and you hold at arm's length a piece of cardboard that represents the frame of your screen when you are at home. You will see only a tiny part of the panel and landing with only that angle of view would be suicide. Otherwise, it's fun, harmless and you are all welcomed to use my or Andrew's model. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive
________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:32 PM PST US Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Likewise I have the Navman Fuel flow meter and checked accuracy after 3,000 Ltr (792 US Gals) and it read about 15 Ltrs high. Less than 2% and probably more due to draining at fuel checks than internal accuracy. Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Noel Loveys" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 08/01/2009 02:01 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those vids on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... (Sorry, thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 U.S. this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . I'm going to be looking into this one. Noel Loveys Campbellton, NL, Canada CDN AME intern, PP-Rec C-FINB, Kitfox III-A 912 almost installed Aerocet 1100 floats noelloveys@yahoo.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 11:36 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I have the 210 and love it. Seems to be pretty dang accurate. It says within 5% out of the box, and it can be calibrated with a known quantity to get it within 2%. So far I have not seen a need to calibrate it any closer. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223266#223266 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:05 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox lV Speedster For Sale From: "wannafly" Its time to sell...my wife would like a larger plane...seems she wants to take a bag or 2 along when we go cross country...so I am looking for a Glastar... so unfortunately C-FOXX is for sale or trade for a Glastar. empty weight 749 lbs. cruise is 90 mph. Two 13 gal wing tanks and one gal behind seat. EA81 113 hp fuel injected, Ram Engines from Ohio did the up grades. equipment list includes water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, amp meter, volt meter, fuel pressure, hobbs, tach, vert speed, turn co ordinator, altimeter,speed indicator, and yaw indicator, VG's, transponder and comm. Comes with a custom made trailer and all the needed braces for transport. One small scratch left wing tip (hanger rash). Asking $27,549 any other questions feel free to ask off line at wannaflyfox4@hotmail.com thanks mic Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223412#223412 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/aug_11_1306_035_153.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/jan_06_088_821.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dec_05_053_278.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0069_750.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/111_056_708.jpg ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:11 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox I did see a hitch for towing a 'Fox that had a screw that made the hitch adjustable up and down several inches. I was part of the arm not the hitch. Another idea would be to cut the arms and plate them back together like a roof truss. I'd only bother with that if you are consistently 0towing long distances at highway speeds. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:23 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, not a 5th wheel! If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a bar that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off the road. Do not archive Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with > the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the original > engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the frame. > > Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red spar > brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop > vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces > that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in > transit. > > Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low as > tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was > designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in previous > posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. > > The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the > owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is due > to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and > aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a crosswind > or updraft. > > I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to > eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the > original designers intended - wings low into the wind. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would be real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:15 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Thanks Michel, that is a glowing endorsement for X-plane. Now can you fold the wings on your Kitfox model and trailer it backwards at different angles? (just kidding!) My reason for wanting FSX is to review my former days of talking to ATC, exploring local airports (the scenery in FSX is amazingly accurate), simulating cross-country flights, and maybe learn a bit of IFR on the cheap. It certainly seems capable of all that and more, if I could get the darn thing to do more than a frame a second. Heck, I might even visit your country. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michel Verheughe Sent: 07 January 2009 4:58 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > From: 815TL [lawrenceaw@corning.com] > Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better > simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame > rate, and feels more 'real'. Well, X-Plane feels more real, that's for sure. But MS FS is "nicer" in the way that it has many fine eye-candy features and a very large existing database of airfields and sceneries. The difference in the simulators models is that MS FS use what can be called "look-up tables." When you build an aircraft, you enter the stall speed, Vne, etc. and for speeds in-between, the values are interpolated. X-Plane, on the other hand, uses what is called "blade theory." It takes any part of the aircraft into an airfoil with own lift, drag and moment. Then it goes through each computation for each frame refresh. When you build an aircraft in X-Plane, you have to enter what you think is the closest model then you go and fly. If the aircraft then stalls at the speed intended then you are very lucky! You can then work with the actual airfoil, the wash-out, the CoG, learn about aviation and see how the model changes. I often work with X-Plane, PlaneMaker and AirfoilMaker programs open at the same time. Tiny adjustments, testing, back to the drawing board ... you get the picture! With MS FS, if you enter a value for stall speed, the aircraft will always stall exactly at that speed! X-Plane is in fact a digital wind tunnel. Even small change in the step of the fuselage of a seaplane makes great difference. It is truly a wind (and water) modeller. However, two warnings about simulators. - None of them can simulate properly a spin. That is because data about airfoil is known for "normal" angles; not when the apparent wind meets the wing and perhaps an angle of 80 degrees and certainly not when e.g. because of the spinning motion, one of the horizontal stabs is in the "shade" of the tail. The only way to simulate that is with Computerized Fluid Dynamics (CFD) and that just can't be done in real time. - You can set the angle of view of the screen as you want. But if you do a bit of geometry, in order to match the actual angle the screen makes and your perspective view of everything around you, the angle should be put to perhaps 25 or 30 degrees and that's too little to be able to see the panel. Imagine you are in your Kitfox and you hold at arm's length a piece of cardboard that represents the frame of your screen when you are at home. You will see only a tiny part of the panel and landing with only that angle of view would be suicide. Otherwise, it's fun, harmless and you are all welcomed to use my or Andrew's model. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 Do not archive 


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________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:16 PM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Prop tips, rags and clamps, softens the blow when I run my head into the prop. (tight fit in garage) Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I > would > consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope > this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings > level"! > > What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I > promise not to start another thread about them.... > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker > Sent: 07 January 2009 11:22 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. > Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded > position > while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose > down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from > KitfoxAircraft. > > > Vic Baker > S7 912S Warp > Phase 1 flight testing > Carson City, Nv > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Brennan" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > >> >> >> C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit >> the >> hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 >> hitch, >> not a 5th wheel! >> >> If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a >> bar >> that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 >> hitch >> ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most >> class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off >> the >> road. >> >> Do not archive >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer >> Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox >> >> >> >> matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >>> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip >>> with >>> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >>> original >>> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the >> frame. >>> >>> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red >> spar >>> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >>> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red >>> braces >>> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >>> transit. >>> >>> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as >>> low >> as >>> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >>> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in >> previous >>> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >>> >>> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >>> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >>> due >>> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >>> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a >> crosswind >>> or updraft. >>> >>> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >>> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >>> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >>> >>> Bob Brennan - N717GB >>> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >>> Wrightsville Pa >>> >>> -- >> >> >> Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice >> burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would >> be >> real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. >> >> -------- >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> Leonard Perry >> Soldotna AK >> Avid "C" / Mk IV >> 582 IVO IFA >> Full Lotus 1260 >> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes >> over. >> >> hander outer of humorless darwin awards >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:42 PM PST US From: mic thiessen Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox I just posted my kitfox for sale and I have some pictures with it on the tr ailer. Towed it more than 3000 miles home at 50-60 mph with no effect on th e kitfox. have used it for the past 4 years with no issues. mic> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox> Date: Wed=2C 7 Jan 2009 18:38:35 -03 >> > I did see a hitch for towing a 'Fox that had a screw that made the hit ch> adjustable up and down several inches. I was part of the arm not the hi tch.> > Another idea would be to cut the arms and plate them back together like a> roof truss. I'd only bother with that if you are consistently 0towi ng long> distances at highway speeds. > > Noel> > -----Original Message---- -> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list- server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan> Sent: Wednesday=2C January 07=2C 2009 12:23 PM> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: RE: Kitfox-Lis an"> > > C'mon Leonard=2C to get the wings leve l with my factory-supplied tow kit the> hitch would have to be more than 3f t off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch=2C> not a 5th wheel!> > If the desig ners had meant the wings to be level they would have built a bar> that rais ed it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch> ball. Wh ile there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most> class 2 hi tch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off the> road.> > Do not archive> Bob Brennan - N717GB> ELSA Repairman=2C inspection rated> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message-----> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer> Sen t: 07 January 2009 10:26 am> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox er" > > > matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:> > Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with> > the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the original> > engineers=2C I assume this because the attach points are built into the> fr ame.> > > > Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red> spar> > brace installed to give the front spar some support and m ainly to stop> > vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 s mall red braces> > that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they canno t swing out in> > transit.> > > > Note that the wings are most definitely n ot level=2C but are carried as low> as> > tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was> > designed that way for all the aerod ynamic reasons I have stated in> previous> > posts=2C but it was certainly designed to be that way.> > > > The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the> > owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farth er than 10 miles. This is due> > to the size of the wheels=2C bearing toler ances=2C narrow wheelbase=2C and> > aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a> crosswind> > or updraft.> > > > I choose to tr ailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to> > eliminate the rest rictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the> > original designers in tended - wings low into the wind.> > > > Bob Brennan - N717GB> > ELSA Repai rman=2C inspection rated> > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox> > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop> > Wrightsville Pa> > > > --> > > Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice> burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck=2C it would be> real dang close to wings leve l=2C just like mine is when hooked to a truck.> > --------> DO NOT ARCHIVE> Leonard Perry> Soldotna AK> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA> Full Lotus 1260> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinker itis takes over.> > hander outer of humorless darwin awards> > > > > Read t his topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223 ==> > > _________________________________________________________________ Keep in touch and up to date with friends and family. Make the connection n ow. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/ ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:39 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox My trailer is a similar idea except it has a platform around 8'X10'. That makes my trailer higher and wider. The double snowmobile trailer is designed to carry under 1800 lb. I extended the tow arm to take the tail of the plane and built a stand to lift the tail. One of the things I noticed about this unit is the weight is still on the tail wheel when the wings are folded. I think I'd build a small support for the fuselage just forward of the tail spring. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded position while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from KitfoxAircraft. Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the > hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, > not a 5th wheel! > > If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a > bar > that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch > ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most > class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off > the > road. > > Do not archive > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer > Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > > matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with >> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >> original >> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the > frame. >> >> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red > spar >> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces >> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >> transit. >> >> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low > as >> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in > previous >> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >> >> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >> due >> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a > crosswind >> or updraft. >> >> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >> >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -- > > > Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice > burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would > be > real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:39 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator One way to figure out if the problem is with FSX would be to try X- Plane. You can download it for free from their website: . Mike G. N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster Phoenix, AZ On Jan 7, 2009, at 12:35 PM, "Bob Brennan" wrote: > > > > I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the > moment > I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my > PC, or > some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it > most > likely won't run X-plane well either. > > bob > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL > Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > > > Bob, > Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, > much > better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks > better, > higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model > of a > Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my > plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member > here. > I modified it for my use. > > The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and > configure > properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of > rudder > pedals, they are worth it. > > More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com > > And here: www.x-plane.org > > Andrew > 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: gary.algate@sandvik.com I think you'll find the transducer is the small turbine that fits in the fuel line to record fuel flow - a simple 12 V wire connection runs back to the Fuel Flow meter to feed the system. It is suggested that the transducer is located cabin side of the firewall i possible as they are normally made from glass reinforced plastic and will melt if exposed to extremely high temps (engine fire), I had difficulty dong this as mine has barbed connections and I don't have any hose inside the cabin so I connected it between the engine bay fuel filter and the carby. I then wrapped it completely in fire proof material so that it is full protected. Hope this helps Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Larry Huntley" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 08/01/2009 08:32 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? G'day Foxy Folks, I called to order this fuel monitor. I see they also list a transducer. Is this needed? The girl at the phone thought so. Makes a substantial difference in price. Also, how do these hook up? Do they go in the line ,or around it or ??? Sounds great to me as I am in the final processes of putting my Kitfox back in the air after a fuel shortage off field landing. Thanx for the info. Larry Larry Huntley Dundee,NY 4-1200 EA81 Amax redrive Warp Drive prop ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > > Float Flyr wrote: >> I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those >> vids >> on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those >> units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... >> (Sorry, >> thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still >> accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 >> U.S. >> this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . >> I'm >> going to be looking into this one. >> >> >> >> >> Noel Loveys >> Campbellton, NL, Canada >> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec >> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A >> 912 almost installed >> Aerocet 1100 floats >> noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> >> >> >> -- > > > That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it > last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open > your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise > speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and > can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:49 AM =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:12 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Head protection... I wouldn't have guessed! Do not archive bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker Sent: 07 January 2009 5:04 pm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Prop tips, rags and clamps, softens the blow when I run my head into the prop. (tight fit in garage) Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I > would > consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope > this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings > level"! > > What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I > promise not to start another thread about them.... > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker > Sent: 07 January 2009 11:22 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. > Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded > position > while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose > down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from > KitfoxAircraft. > > > Vic Baker > S7 912S Warp > Phase 1 flight testing > Carson City, Nv > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Brennan" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > >> >> >> C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit >> the >> hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 >> hitch, >> not a 5th wheel! >> >> If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a >> bar >> that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 >> hitch >> ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most >> class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off >> the >> road. >> >> Do not archive >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer >> Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox >> >> >> >> matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >>> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip >>> with >>> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >>> original >>> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the >> frame. >>> >>> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red >> spar >>> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >>> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red >>> braces >>> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >>> transit. >>> >>> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as >>> low >> as >>> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >>> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in >> previous >>> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >>> >>> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >>> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >>> due >>> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >>> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a >> crosswind >>> or updraft. >>> >>> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >>> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >>> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >>> >>> Bob Brennan - N717GB >>> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >>> Wrightsville Pa >>> >>> -- >> >> >> Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice >> burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would >> be >> real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. >> >> -------- >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> Leonard Perry >> Soldotna AK >> Avid "C" / Mk IV >> 582 IVO IFA >> Full Lotus 1260 >> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes >> over. >> >> hander outer of humorless darwin awards >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:32 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator I have a similar system... A P4, 3.2 gHz W/ i gig of RAM and a GeForce 6200 card. 256 VRAM the computer is a second hand return from lease. $250 tx incl. The monitor is considerably more. The FS-X runs great on this. I like the FS 9 better only because my Kitfox flys great on it. I fiddled with the program so tha plane gives closer to what I get in the real plane... Then I did a repaint and a new panel. Now if I could only figure out how to add floats. BTW there are more and better ponds in FS 9. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator I hope this isn't too off topic for a Kitfox forum but does anyone use MS Flight Simulator X? I had hoped to get some simulator time in while the weather is so gruesome but it is unusable on my PC. I bought FSX, then the Saitek Aviator joystick to hopefully make it work better, then more Ram, then a new video card, and most recently the Acceleration Expansion Pack. But nothing gets it going faster than about 2-3 frames per second, even at minimal settings, which is unusable. MS lists minimum requirements as Good, Better, Best - my PC falls into the Best category with a 3g P4, 1.5g Ram, and new 512m GeForce video card. MS support have been very helpful so far and my problem has been "elevated" to the highest level as I await yet another phone call from them. My question is simply - is anyone using FSX successfully? Thanks, Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:12 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? Gary, Do you know if the transducer is part of the unit that is for sale? Also,what do you think of the chances of the little turbine plugging or failing and stopping fuel flow? Thanx, Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: gary.algate@sandvik.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I think you'll find the transducer is the small turbine that fits in the fuel line to record fuel flow - a simple 12 V wire connection runs back to the Fuel Flow meter to feed the system. It is suggested that the transducer is located cabin side of the firewall i possible as they are normally made from glass reinforced plastic and will melt if exposed to extremely high temps (engine fire), I had difficulty dong this as mine has barbed connections and I don't have any hose inside the cabin so I connected it between the engine bay fuel filter and the carby. I then wrapped it completely in fire proof material so that it is full protected. Hope this helps Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 Jab2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. "This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "Larry Huntley" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 08/01/2009 08:32 AM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To cc Subject Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? G'day Foxy Folks, I called to order this fuel monitor. I see they also list a transducer. Is this needed? The girl at the phone thought so. Makes a substantial difference in price. Also, how do these hook up? Do they go in the line ,or around it or ??? Sounds great to me as I am in the final processes of putting my Kitfox back in the air after a fuel shortage off field landing. Thanx for the info. Larry Larry Huntley Dundee,NY 4-1200 EA81 Amax redrive Warp Drive prop ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > > Float Flyr wrote: >> I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those >> vids >> on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those >> units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... >> (Sorry, >> thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still >> accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 >> U.S. >> this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . >> I'm >> going to be looking into this one. >> >> >> >> >> Noel Loveys >> Campbellton, NL, Canada >> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec >> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A >> 912 almost installed >> Aerocet 1100 floats >> noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> >> >> >> -- > > > That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it > last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open > your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise > speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and > can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:49 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 1/7/2009 8:49 AM ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: "akflyer" Mine came with the transducer Northstar Explorer F210 NSTF210 1 113.99 Digital Fuel Display w/Single Engine Kit Subtotal 113.99 Shipping 23.47 Tax 0.00 Total 137.46 This was from my order on 6-30-07 I have a kitfox header tank installed behind the seat. I have a filter then the transducer coming off the bottom of the header, then reduce the line down to 5/16" and run aluminum tubing along the floor through the firewall into the gascolator. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223430#223430 ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:32 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator My best guess is there is a problem with the way your video card communicates with your confuser. Make sure you have consistant RAM cards. You may also have to enable the graphics card in control. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most likely won't run X-plane well either. bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:38 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox I don't know if your model has it but my model 2 has a tube for the tow bar right where you are thinking of adding support - already designed to take the weight. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 5:26 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox My trailer is a similar idea except it has a platform around 8'X10'. That makes my trailer higher and wider. The double snowmobile trailer is designed to carry under 1800 lb. I extended the tow arm to take the tail of the plane and built a stand to lift the tail. One of the things I noticed about this unit is the weight is still on the tail wheel when the wings are folded. I think I'd build a small support for the fuselage just forward of the tail spring. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vic Baker Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox This method seems to work well. I would never exceed 55mph while towing. Note the wing braces and safety line insuring wings stay in folded position while towing. Vert stab protected by pad. Elevator tied in down (nose down) position via control stick. The transport kit is avail from KitfoxAircraft. Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:53 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > C'mon Leonard, to get the wings level with my factory-supplied tow kit the > hitch would have to be more than 3ft off the ground. It's a Class 2 hitch, > not a 5th wheel! > > If the designers had meant the wings to be level they would have built a > bar > that raised it to that height while attached to a regulation class 2 hitch > ball. While there is no regulation height for a class 2 hitch ball most > class 2 hitch trailers are designed for anywhere between 12" to 20" off > the > road. > > Do not archive > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer > Sent: 07 January 2009 10:26 am > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox > > > > matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: >> Here is a picture of my model 2 being towed away from my UK airstrip with >> the original tow kit as supplied by Denney and as designed by the >> original >> engineers, I assume this because the attach points are built into the > frame. >> >> Slightly blocked by me and my feigned tears (sorry) you can see the red > spar >> brace installed to give the front spar some support and mainly to stop >> vibration at the attach points. Not in the picture are 2 small red braces >> that secure the wings to the tail assembly so they cannot swing out in >> transit. >> >> Note that the wings are most definitely not level, but are carried as low > as >> tailwheel clearance will allow. I make an assumption in saying it was >> designed that way for all the aerodynamic reasons I have stated in > previous >> posts, but it was certainly designed to be that way. >> >> The limitations of towing a Kitfox this way are clearly stated in the >> owner's manual - don't go over 40mph or farther than 10 miles. This is >> due >> to the size of the wheels, bearing tolerances, narrow wheelbase, and >> aerodynamic safety considerations - it could easily flip over in a > crosswind >> or updraft. >> >> I choose to trailer on a flatbed with wheels strapped to the bed to >> eliminate the restrictions and keep the aerodynamics the same as the >> original designers intended - wings low into the wind. >> >> Bob Brennan - N717GB >> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated >> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox >> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop >> Wrightsville Pa >> >> -- > > > Wings low on yours are due to having it hooked to the bumper of a rice > burner. I would have to say that if it were hooked to a truck, it would > be > real dang close to wings level, just like mine is when hooked to a truck. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223335#223335 > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:20 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I forgot to say my platform is XP SP-3 for the Flight Sim.... More and more I'm switching to Dreamlinux distribution for internet browsing and office. I still haven't seen a linux program with the flexibility of MS Outlook. When I do that's the way I'll go. Noel ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:20 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > Make sure you have consistant RAM cards.? I formerly had just an onboard Intel chipset for video, now my monitor is plugged into the Nvidea card so the video must be coming from there. Checking My Computer > Manage > Device Manager > Display Adapters shows the Intel chipset disabled and the Nvidea enabled. FSX only shows the Nvidea in the Graphics dialog. Funny thing though - none of my programs show the slightest difference, including all performance problems in FSX, when I upgraded to the Nvidea. That can't be right... I expected more for my 120 bucks. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 5:48 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator My best guess is there is a problem with the way your video card communicates with your confuser. Make sure you have consistant RAM cards. You may also have to enable the graphics card in control. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most likely won't run X-plane well either. bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:51 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? I emailed boatersland and the reply I got was the transducer, which is needed, is included in the kit. This is part of the reply I got this afternoon. yes it does come with the sender yes we do ship to Canada Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Huntley Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? G'day Foxy Folks, I called to order this fuel monitor. I see they also list a transducer. Is this needed? The girl at the phone thought so. Makes a substantial difference in price. Also, how do these hook up? Do they go in the line ,or around it or ??? Sounds great to me as I am in the final processes of putting my Kitfox back in the air after a fuel shortage off field landing. Thanx for the info. Larry Larry Huntley Dundee,NY 4-1200 EA81 Amax redrive Warp Drive prop ----- Original Message ----- From: "akflyer" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > > Float Flyr wrote: >> I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those >> vids >> on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those >> units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... >> (Sorry, >> thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still >> accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 >> U.S. >> this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . >> I'm >> going to be looking into this one. >> >> >> >> >> Noel Loveys >> Campbellton, NL, Canada >> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec >> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A >> 912 almost installed >> Aerocet 1100 floats >> noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> >> >> >> -- > > > That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it > last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open > your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise > speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and > can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:49 AM ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:16 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I was referring to your RAM sticks... Sometimes different sizes and speeds of chips appear magically in the ram slots. Having different sizes ,speeds etc can slow down a computer. Perhaps you should run the possibility of removing the onboard video from control panel past the people at Micro Soft... It is possible the onboard and the NVidia are having a tug of war for every frame. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > Make sure you have consistant RAM cards.? I formerly had just an onboard Intel chipset for video, now my monitor is plugged into the Nvidea card so the video must be coming from there. Checking My Computer > Manage > Device Manager > Display Adapters shows the Intel chipset disabled and the Nvidea enabled. FSX only shows the Nvidea in the Graphics dialog. Funny thing though - none of my programs show the slightest difference, including all performance problems in FSX, when I upgraded to the Nvidea. That can't be right... I expected more for my 120 bucks. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 5:48 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator My best guess is there is a problem with the way your video card communicates with your confuser. Make sure you have consistant RAM cards. You may also have to enable the graphics card in control. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most likely won't run X-plane well either. bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 03:36:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: gary.algate@sandvik.com Larry when I purchased mine I paid about $250 and this included the transducer - most of the systems I have seen always include the transducer as they really do come as a set! The turbine in the transducer is designed so that if for any reason it stops rotating it can still supply full flow through the blades of the turbine. I know this works as on one occasion after transporting my plane to Australia when I started the engine I was showing fuel flow (up to max RPM on the ground) yet my EGT's were all in the green proving there was ample flow to the engine. After a few minutes the transducer started turning and all read normal. I pulled the transducer and found that there was some fine residue in it which I cleaned out with no further problems. I guess the 3 months in a shipping container with a dry fuel system allowed some crap to settle out. Regards Gary Gary Algate Classic 4 jab2200 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:15 PM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox Well, in OK, it don't need a license plate (or title or registration as a land vehicle), DOT tires are not an issue, and magnetic mount towing lights are acceptable. Any "trailer" for private use does not require paperwork, including my 30' flatbed gooseneck, with dual tandem wheels and 20,000 lb. axles. John Hart KF IV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:12 AM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox Good info Noel, that's the first time I've heard some actual facts. I asked as many authorities as I could find about how to legally tow my KFII on the factory-supplied towbar and no one could answer, or even refer me to someone who could. Due to that and the stress I knew I would put on the main gear with the poor roads in rural PA I opted to get the flatbed trailer instead. Plus any excuse to buy a new toy is a good one. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 9:28 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox He would need wheel pants and DOT spec tires (this side of the pond). Some jurisdictions require his plane to be licensed as a trailer and have appropriate signal lights added to it. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I have a friend who tows his model V tail first using the tow bar as designed. Seems to work just fine for him. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:40 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Thanks Mike, I downloaded the free trial version from their website, a 30 minute download for a 10 minute preview. 10 minutes wasn't nearly enough to figure out how to do anything other than crash, but the frame rate as I plunged toward the earth was good and the detailed scenery rushing toward me was impressive. So likely not my PC then, and at $39.95 I just might order that DVD and do it right. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs Sent: 07 January 2009 5:28 pm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator One way to figure out if the problem is with FSX would be to try X- Plane. You can download it for free from their website: . Mike G. N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster Phoenix, AZ On Jan 7, 2009, at 12:35 PM, "Bob Brennan" wrote: > > > I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the > moment > I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my > PC, or > some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it > most > likely won't run X-plane well either. > > bob > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL > Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > > > Bob, > Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, > much > better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks > better, > higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model > of a > Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my > plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member > here. > I modified it for my use. > > The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and > configure > properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of > rudder > pedals, they are worth it. > > More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com > > And here: www.x-plane.org > > Andrew > 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:54 PM PST US From: "kirk hull" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox I could be wrong but other aircraft has the grove gear which is taller then the stock gear which may be adding to the 5 to 10 deg down -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 1:54 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox Leonard - from the picture Vic Baker sent(attached) I would guess the wings are between 5 and 10 degrees down into the wind, in my opinion a good angle for trailering but certainly nowhere near "level". In my most humble opinion "level" means level means 0 degrees to the wind, which I have been trying to determine is a bad thing or not. Trailering using the factory-supplied towbar or tailwheel-down "on the deck" puts the wing incidence angle at between 10 and 15 degrees down I estimate, and should be towed within the factory recommended range of no more than 40mph. If I were to tow my bird any distance or at any speed I would install the braces and raise the tailwheel to between 5 and 10 degrees down, but never to "level". Kirk Hull's picture (hope you don't mind me attaching here Kirk) shows a setup where the wings are level. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 07 January 2009 1:15 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Good picture Vic, with the wings pitched down into the wind at what I would > consider the perfect angle exactly the same as the towbar kit. I sure hope > this picture isn't representative of what others have called "wings level"! > > What are the thingies on the prop tips if you don't mind my asking? I > promise not to start another thread about them.... > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- you are right, the wings are not perfectly level, but the tail is not sitting on the deck either.... I have not put the incidence meter on it so I cant give you a exact degree. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223366#223366 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02155_162.jpg ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:30 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator The RAM sticks have been there for ages, I upgraded from the original 512m by adding a 1g stick back when 1g sticks cost real money (I recently put 4g in my Garmin for $18!), and never a problem. The Performance Monitor rarely shows over 400m in use anyway. BTW I ran FSX with *everything* else shut down, no difference. The instructions for installing the Nvidea said to uninstall the onboard drivers, I declined to follow a step that would leave me unable to read the next step! Now that I know the Nvidea card is working I have uninstalled the onboard chipset and restarted the PC - M$ plug-and-pray of course then starts the whole Found New Hardware thing with no options to ignore it. It re-installed the chipset as an "unknown" video controller which I had to then disable. Sadly, no difference, FSX is still doing an average of 2 frames per second on default settings. And no phone calls from M$, what a surprise... Do not archive bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 6:32 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I was referring to your RAM sticks... Sometimes different sizes and speeds of chips appear magically in the ram slots. Having different sizes ,speeds etc can slow down a computer. Perhaps you should run the possibility of removing the onboard video from control panel past the people at Micro Soft... It is possible the onboard and the NVidia are having a tug of war for every frame. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > Make sure you have consistant RAM cards.? I formerly had just an onboard Intel chipset for video, now my monitor is plugged into the Nvidea card so the video must be coming from there. Checking My Computer > Manage > Device Manager > Display Adapters shows the Intel chipset disabled and the Nvidea enabled. FSX only shows the Nvidea in the Graphics dialog. Funny thing though - none of my programs show the slightest difference, including all performance problems in FSX, when I upgraded to the Nvidea. That can't be right... I expected more for my 120 bucks. bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 5:48 pm Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator My best guess is there is a problem with the way your video card communicates with your confuser. Make sure you have consistant RAM cards. You may also have to enable the graphics card in control. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator I might give X-plane a try as well as FSX Andrew thanks, but for the moment I really need to determine if it is FSX that is the problem or my PC, or some magical setting I don't know about yet. If my PC is at fault it most likely won't run X-plane well either. bob Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 815TL Sent: 07 January 2009 2:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Bob, Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame rate, and feels more 'real'. Plus I have a nice model of a Kitfox II that I repainted, and re did the cockpit on, to look like my plane. The orginal was created by Michel Verheughe, who is a member here. I modified it for my use. The only down side to x-plane is it can be hard to set up and configure properly, but I can help you out with that. Also invest in a set of rudder pedals, they are worth it. More on x-plane here: www.x-plane.com And here: www.x-plane.org Andrew 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223373#223373 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_in_921_577.jpg ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "815TL" Bob, Make sure you have the latest video drivers as well, that makes a world of difference. About x-plane, let me get a couple of screen shots. With the new version 9+, full detail and forests, I believe it looks much better than FSX. Of course that is my own opinion. Like I said, the program with all the add ons is huge, and a little complicated to get set up for the beginner, but I can help you out. Oh, it also simulates ATC, and the airport database is more up to date. On FSX, it still shows 7N1 in Painted Post NY, as a grass srtip, at its old location. X-plane has it correct, with the new paved runway and taxiway. Andrew Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223452#223452 ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:49 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Has anybody got experience with MS Flight Simulator 2004?Pat ReillyMod 3 58 2 RebuildRockford=2C IL> Date: Wed=2C 7 Jan 2009 22:57:57 +0100> From: mich el@online.no> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flig ht Simulator> > > From: 815TL [lawrenceaw@corning.com]> > Take The MS fligh t sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much=2C much better > > simula tor in my opinion. I have used both=2C and x-plane looks better=2C higher f rame> > rate=2C and feels more 'real'.> > Well=2C X-Plane feels more real =2C that's for sure. But MS FS is "nicer" in the way that it has many fine eye-candy features and a very large existing database of airfields and scen eries.> > The difference in the simulators models is that MS FS use what ca n be called "look-up tables." When you build an aircraft=2C you enter the s tall speed=2C Vne=2C etc. and for speeds in-between=2C the values are inter polated.> > X-Plane=2C on the other hand=2C uses what is called "blade theo ry." It takes any part of the aircraft into an airfoil with own lift=2C dra g and moment. Then it goes through each computation for each frame refresh. > > When you build an aircraft in X-Plane=2C you have to enter what you th ink is the closest model then you go and fly. If the aircraft then stalls a t the speed intended then you are very lucky! You can then work with the ac tual airfoil=2C the wash-out=2C the CoG=2C learn about aviation and see how the model changes.> > I often work with X-Plane=2C PlaneMaker and AirfoilM aker programs open at the same time. Tiny adjustments=2C testing=2C back to the drawing board ... you get the picture!> > With MS FS=2C if you enter a value for stall speed=2C the aircraft will always stall exactly at that sp eed!> > X-Plane is in fact a digital wind tunnel. Even small change in the step of the fuselage of a seaplane makes great difference. It is truly a wi nd (and water) modeller.> > However=2C two warnings about simulators.> > - None of them can simulate properly a spin. That is because data about airfo il is known for "normal" angles=3B not when the apparent wind meets the win g and perhaps an angle of 80 degrees and certainly not when e.g. because of the spinning motion=2C one of the horizontal stabs is in the "shade" of th e tail. The only way to simulate that is with Computerized Fluid Dynamics ( CFD) and that just can't be done in real time.> > - You can set the angle o f view of the screen as you want. But if you do a bit of geometry=2C in ord er to match the actual angle the screen makes and your perspective view of everything around you=2C the angle should be put to perhaps 25 or 30 degree s and that's too little to be able to see the panel.> > Imagine you are in your Kitfox and you hold at arm's length a piece of cardboard that represen ts the frame of your screen when you are at home. You will see only a tiny part of the panel and landing with only that angle of view would be suicide .> > Otherwise=2C it's fun=2C harmless and you are all welcomed to use my o r Andrew's model.> > Cheers=2C> Michel Verheughe> Norway> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200> > Do not archive> > 
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-L
=> >
________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:25 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator From: "akflyer" I have 2004 also. Whats your question and I MAY be of some use lol.. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223457#223457 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:15 PM PST US From: "Pete Christensen" Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator Noel, How about sending me a copy of your fixed up FS 9 kitfox? Pete apeterchristensen@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Flight Simulator I have a similar system... A P4, 3.2 gHz W/ i gig of RAM and a GeForce 6200 card. 256 VRAM the computer is a second hand return from lease. $250 tx incl. The monitor is considerably more. The FS-X runs great on this. I like the FS 9 better only because my Kitfox flys great on it. I fiddled with the program so tha plane gives closer to what I get in the real plane... Then I did a repaint and a new panel. Now if I could only figure out how to add floats. BTW there are more and better ponds in FS 9. Noel ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:35 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox You live in a good jurisdiction for trailers! Here, all those points have to be met and a person is well advised to also carry PL-PD insurance on the trailer/Plane. Motor vehicle registration will license just about anything as a trailer but it must have a suspension and DOT tires. That includes farm trailers and attachments towed on public roads behind tractors. It gets worse. We have to remember to renew our trailers every year and carry all the paperwork with us. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Hart Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 8:18 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox Well, in OK, it don't need a license plate (or title or registration as a land vehicle), DOT tires are not an issue, and magnetic mount towing lights are acceptable. Any "trailer" for private use does not require paperwork, including my 30' flatbed gooseneck, with dual tandem wheels and 20,000 lb. axles. John Hart KF IV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: 07 January 2009 9:28 am Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox He would need wheel pants and DOT spec tires (this side of the pond). Some jurisdictions require his plane to be licensed as a trailer and have appropriate signal lights added to it. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dee Young Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:21 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Towing a Kitfox I have a friend who tows his model V tail first using the tow bar as designed. Seems to work just fine for him. Dee Young Model II N345DY Do not archive been biting my tongue on this one for awhile... Have any the rocket scientists here bothered to look at what the factory designed for towing? These were designed by the original engineers, and were made to tow the dang plane wings level. I bet they were on to something when they came up with this hair brained idea to tow a plane down a road... -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223264#223264 via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:16 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fuel monitor Thanx to all for the fuel monitor help. It is ordered and on its way. Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:09 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > I emailed boatersland and the reply I got was the transducer, which is > needed, is included in the kit. > > This is part of the reply I got this afternoon. > > yes it does come with the sender > yes we do ship to Canada > > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Huntley > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 6:25 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > > G'day Foxy Folks, > I called to order this fuel monitor. I see they also list a transducer. > Is > > this needed? The girl at the phone thought so. Makes a substantial > difference in price. Also, how do these hook up? Do they go in the line > ,or > around it or ??? > Sounds great to me as I am in the final processes of putting my Kitfox > back in the air after a fuel shortage off field landing. Thanx for the > info. > > Larry > Larry Huntley > Dundee,NY > 4-1200 EA81 > Amax redrive Warp Drive prop > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "akflyer" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 12:28 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? > > >> >> >> Float Flyr wrote: >>> I just got this in from Dave Fisher. He's the one who puts all those >>> vids >>> on youtube. He claims to have run over 5000 gal. through one of those >>> units... He didn't say if they were real gallons or the U.S. :-) ... >>> (Sorry, >>> thats right we don't have gallons here any more...Right!) and it's still >>> accurate. He was also nice enough to pass along the current price $109 >>> U.S. >>> this was from a marine supply shop. www.boatersland.com/f210.html . >>> I'm >>> going to be looking into this one. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Noel Loveys >>> Campbellton, NL, Canada >>> CDN AME intern, PP-Rec >>> C-FINB, Kitfox III-A >>> 912 almost installed >>> Aerocet 1100 floats >>> noelloveys@yahoo.ca >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >> That is where mine came from, but I think it was more when I ordered it >> last year. Get it, you wont be dissapointed. And it will really open >> your eyes when you see what 100 RPM can do to fuel burn versus cruise >> speed. I think you will find that you fly just a couple MPH slower and >> can stay up alot longer ant get farther down the trail.... >> >> -------- >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> Leonard Perry >> Soldotna AK >> Avid "C" / Mk IV >> 582 IVO IFA >> Full Lotus 1260 >> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes >> over. >> >> hander outer of humorless darwin awards >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223362#223362 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 8:49 AM > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 8:49 AM ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:12 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator a.k.a. FS - 9 the one with the better description of waterways and all the free planes on the net?? Never heard of it! J Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:01 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Has anybody got experience with MS Flight Simulator 2004? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:57:57 +0100 > From: michel@online.no > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator > > > From: 815TL [lawrenceaw@corning.com] > > Take The MS flight sim back and in invest in x-plane. It is a much, much better > > simulator in my opinion. I have used both, and x-plane looks better, higher frame > > rate, and feels more 'real'. > > Well, X-Plane feels more real, that's for sure. But MS FS is "nicer" in the way that it has many fine eye-candy features and a very large existing database of airfields and sceneries. > > The difference in the simulators models is that MS FS use what can be called "look-up tables." When you build an aircraft, you enter the stall speed, Vne, etc. and for speeds in-between, the values are interpolated. > > X-Plane, on the other hand, uses what is called "blade theory." It takes any part of the aircraft into an airfoil with own lift, drag and moment. Then it goes through each computation for each frame refresh. > > When you build an aircraft in X-Plane, you have to enter what you think is the closest model then you go and fly. If the aircraft then stalls at the speed intended then you are very lucky! You can then work with the actual airfoil, the wash-out, the CoG, learn about aviation and see how the model changes. > > I often work with X-Plane, PlaneMaker and AirfoilMaker programs open at the same time. Tiny adjustments, testing, back to the drawing board ... you get the picture! > > With MS FS, if you enter a value for stall speed, the aircraft will always stall exactly at that speed! > > X-Plane is in fact a digital wind tunnel. Even small change in the step of the fuselage of a seaplane makes great difference. It is truly a wind (and water) modeller. > > However, two warnings about simulators. > > - None of them can simulate properly a spin. That is because data about airfoil is known for "normal" angles; not when the apparent wind meets the wing and perhaps an angle of 80 degrees and certainly not when e.g. because of the spinning motion, one of the horizontal stabs is in the "shade" of the tail. The only way to simulate that is with Computerized Fluid Dynamics (CFD) and that just can't be done in real time. > > - You can set the angle of view of the screen as you want. But if you do a bit of geometry, in order to match the actual angle the screen makes and your perspective view of everything around you, the angle should be put to perhaps 25 or 30 degrees and that's too little to be able to see the panel. > > Imagine you are in your Kitfox and you hold at arm's length a piece of cardboard that represents the frame of your screen when you are at home. You will see only a tiny part of the panel and landing with only that angle of view would be suicide. > > Otherwise, it's fun, harmless and you are all welcomed to use my or Andrew's model. > > Cheers, > Michel Verheughe > Norway > Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 > > Do not archive > > 
 --> http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Kitfox-List
> orums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>lt;a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
> 
>
________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:05 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator Lenoard=2C I am considering buying the MS 2004 Simulator on recommendation of a friend. He said it takes a very powerful computer to run the X and he says his 2004 suits him just fine. Are you satisfied with yours? What joy s tick would you recommend and someone mentioned rudder pedals. I didn't know you could use rudder pedals with a simulator. Of course the last simulator I tried was on a Tandy computer. Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flight Simulator> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com> Date: Wed=2C 7 Jan 2009 16:42:20 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > - ave 2004 also. Whats your question and I MAY be of some use lol..> > ------ --> DO NOT ARCHIVE> Leonard Perry> Soldotna AK> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA> Full Lotus 1260> As done as any plane will ever be.... c ause now the tinkeritis takes over.> > hander outer of humorless darwin awa rds> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vi ===> > > ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:09 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: sight glass fuel indicator? When I go to this site: http://www.northstarnav.com/en/Products/Fuel- Management/F210-Fuel/ two pictures come up....what is the D210? They only seem to describe the F210. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs Sensenich 62x46 flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition system; also building a new pair of snow skis do not archive On Jan 6, 2009, at 5:07 PM, paul wilson wrote: > > Kinda late reply. Thanks for jogging my brain. > Anyway here are 2 more solutions: > http://www.cruzpro.com/fu30.html > Very cool and simple!! > and > http://www.northstarnav.com/en/Products/Fuel-Management/F210-Fuel/ > Very popular. The "Northstar F210" is the same product as the > "Navman Fuel 2100". It has a new price and supplier. > Get these gadgets from the boat places. > Paul > ======== > At 12:40 PM 12/8/2008, Paul Morel wrote: >> >> >> Here's about the cheapest Fuel Flow system I found. I got it a >> little cheaper at Oshkosh this past summer and it's going in my >> Speedster. >> http://www.fdatasystems.com/ >> >> Paul Morel >> Model IV Speedster >> Locust Grove, GA > > ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:00 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: sight glass fuel indicator? From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Wed, January 7, 2009 7:51 pm, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > When I go to this site: http://www.northstarnav.com/en/Products/Fuel- > Management/F210-Fuel/ two pictures come up....what is the D210? > They only seem to describe the F210. Depth Display Here's the manual -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.