Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (Ken Potter)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox (Catz631@AOL.COM)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (Dwight Purdy)
4. 06:31 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (Guy Buchanan)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (Roger Lee)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: Trailering a Kitfox (paul wilson)
7. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: Engine Ground strap (patrick reilly)
8. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Engine Ground strap (patrick reilly)
9. 07:20 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (Noel Loveys)
10. 07:22 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (patrick reilly)
11. 07:35 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (patrick reilly)
12. 07:43 AM - Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat (earnestj0)
13. 07:57 AM - trailering (malpass)
14. 08:16 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (Noel Loveys)
15. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (steve shinabery)
16. 08:44 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a Kitfox (steve shinabery)
17. 09:07 AM - Re: Fuel flow indicator (Lynn Matteson)
18. 09:20 AM - Re: kitfox trailer (J Rabon)
19. 10:57 AM - Re: Fuel flow indicator (akflyer)
20. 11:24 AM - Re: Engine Ground strap (jjprobasco@comcast.net)
21. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox (Chuck Popenoe)
22. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow indicator (Lynn Matteson)
23. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
24. 02:41 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow indicator (Larry Huntley)
25. 05:05 PM - Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox (815TL)
26. 05:08 PM - Re: Fuel flow indicator (815TL)
27. 05:19 PM - Re: Fuel flow indicator (fox5flyer)
28. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat (Lowell Fitt)
29. 06:18 PM - Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox (Tom Jones)
30. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuel flow indicator (Larry Huntley)
31. 11:02 PM - Re: Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox (Michael Gibbs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
Pat;
That is exactly what I did. I attached the engine ground to the lower through
bolt on the mount and attached the battery ground to the corresponding nut on
the other side of the firewall. Not sure if it is "legal" or not but it seemed
logical.
Cheers
Ken
--------
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
98% Complete
C-FJKP (marks reserved)
Lanark, Ontario
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223827#223827
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox |
I know we have beat this subject to death but I really would like to solicit
an opinion on the best way to check the rear spar pivot point for damage.
Unfortunately I had to trailer my Kitfox from just south of Boston to Pensacola
,Fl due to the lousy weather enroute when I bought it. It was towed on a tandem
wheel trailer and it was a rough ride on the interstate due to the light
weight of the Kitfox. The tanks were empty and the front brace bar was installed.
I
examined the rear spar pivot point visually upon arrival as I thought this
might be a possible weak point. It appeared to be ok but now with all this
discussion I think I will reexamine it. Any good ideas on how to check it other
than visual (i.e.: dye penetrant,etc) Any other areas to check?
Thanks
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola Fl
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
headlines. (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002)
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
I have never commented on this subject and am also tired of deleting them.
That being said I must comment on this idea of fastening down tight. Who
ever built my trailer made the tongue carry through too weak and it flexes a
bunch. If you tie it down tight your plane becomes an integral part of the
trailer. You do not want your longerons doing that! I need to beef up my
trailer.
Dwight Purdy
Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
> Actually something to consider is your tiedowns. If you make your tires
> really spongy, etc. Odds are good your planes gonna get damaged by
> banging against the tiedowns. It's better to tie it down as tight as
> possible,
> and let the trailer suspension absorb the shock. The plane should be tight
> and the trailer suspension soft. That's the best way to do it.
>
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223755#223755
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
At 10:00 PM 1/9/2009, you wrote:
>Kitfoxers, I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582.
>Is there anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to
>the engine mount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire
>to that bolt on the inside of the firewall?
Bob Nuckolls, of the AeroElectric connection, does something
very similar for his primary ground buss using a brass bolt. Your
only problem will be starting with clean connections and keeping them clean.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
Not a thing wrong with that ground setup. I know of at least 2 SLSA companies that
do it that way from the factory. You have a completed ground that grounds
all that needs to be grounded at that point. You could add a busbar on the back
side and add other items that need grounding, too.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223841#223841
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Replacement of the spar steel doubler would be one option. Pretty low
tech and it puts the plane back to what it was when built.
Examine the front/rear braces for any tell tale issues that would
give a hint of plane attachment issues?
Verify the fuge lower structure is still straight as designed.
Consider some kind of ndt for the tail spring?
Paul
=========
At 05:30 AM 1/10/2009, Dick Maddux wrote:
>I know we have beat this subject to death but I really would like to
>solicit an opinion on the best way to check the rear spar pivot
>point for damage. Unfortunately I had to trailer my Kitfox from just
>south of Boston to Pensacola ,Fl due to the lousy weather enroute
>when I bought it. It was towed on a tandem wheel trailer and it was
>a rough ride on the interstate due to the light weight of the
>Kitfox. The tanks were empty and the front brace bar was installed.
>I examined the rear spar pivot point visually upon arrival as I
>thought this might be a possible weak point. It appeared to be ok
>but now with all this discussion I think I will reexamine it. Any
>good ideas on how to check it other than visual (i.e.: dye
>penetrant,etc) Any other areas to check?
> Thanks
> Dick Maddux
> Fox 4-1200
> Pensacola Fl
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
Ken=2C Thanks for the info. Yes=2C seemed logical to me too. I was looking
at a through the firewall ground bar and where to locate it. I thought =2CI
already have bolts through the firewall why add more?
do not archive Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-L
ist: Re: Engine Ground strap> From: kjpotter@sympatico.ca> Date: Sat=2C 10
Jan 2009 04:16:20 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List m
essage posted by: "Ken Potter" <kjpotter@sympatico.ca>> > Pat=3B> That is e
xactly what I did. I attached the engine ground to the lower through bolt o
n the mount and attached the battery ground to the corresponding nut on the
other side of the firewall. Not sure if it is "legal" or not but it seemed
logical.> > Cheers> > Ken> > --------> Ken Potter> Model II=2C No. 483> Ro
tax 582=2C C-Box=2C > 98% Complete> C-FJKP (marks reserved)> Lanark=2C Onta
rio> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/vi
===> > >
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
Roger=2C Great! Thanks for the feed back. And=2C yes I planed on a ground b
uss on the back of firewall.
do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> Subject: Kitfox-Li
st: Re: Engine Ground strap> From: ssadiver1@yahoo.com> Date: Sat=2C 10 Jan
2009 06:47:07 -0800> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List mess
age posted by: "Roger Lee" <ssadiver1@yahoo.com>> > Not a thing wrong with
that ground setup. I know of at least 2 SLSA companies that do it that way
from the factory. You have a completed ground that grounds all that needs t
o be grounded at that point. You could add a busbar on the back side and ad
d other items that need grounding=2C too.> > --------> Roger Lee> Tucson=2C
Az.> Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated> Rotax Service Center> 520-
574-1080> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.c
=====> > >
Message 9
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| Subject: | Engine Ground strap |
In a word... no. Sounds good to me.
Getting a reasonable ground to the frame from the battery isn't usually a
problem. Getting a good ground to the engine requires a good strap to jump
the engine mount. Missing or corroded grounding straps are a common place
to develop charging problems. It's a good idea to check your grounding
connections every year as part of your annual inspection.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
Kitfoxers, I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582. Is
there anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to the engine
mount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire to that bolt on the
inside of the firewall?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine Ground strap |
Guy=2C Thanks for info=2C I'll clean the connections initially and its alwa
ys a problem keeping them clean.
do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL
nn@nethere.comSubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strapAt 10:00 PM 1/9/
2009=2C you wrote:
Kitfoxers=2C I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582. Is t
here anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to the engine
mount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire to that bolt on t
he inside of the firewall? Bob Nuckolls=2C of the AeroElectric conne
ction=2C does something very similar for his primary ground buss using a br
ass bolt. Your only problem will be starting with clean connections and ke
eping them clean.
Guy BuchananSan Diego=2C CAK-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done=2C thanks m
ostly to Bob Ducar.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Engine Ground strap |
Noel=2C Thanks for info. I'm going to the aviation department of Farm and F
leet today and buy a grounding strap.
do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL
From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L
ist: Engine Ground strapDate: Sat=2C 10 Jan 2009 11:49:51 -0330
In a word... no. Sounds good to me.
Getting a reasonable ground to the frame from the battery isn=92t usually a
problem. Getting a good ground to the engine requires a good strap to jum
p the engine mount. Missing or corroded grounding straps are a common plac
e to develop charging problems. It=92s a good idea to check your grounding
connections every year as part of your annual inspection.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Saturday=2C January 10=2C 20
09 2:30 AMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground
strap
Kitfoxers=2C I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582. Is t
here anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to the engine
mount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire to that bolt on t
he inside of the firewall?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums
.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat |
Thanks Rick, I would appreciate a photo and also information on the "waterless"
that you are talking about. You can email me off line if you wish. earnestj@frontiernet.net.
Ted
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223856#223856
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Since the subjects seems to be about ground transportation of the Foxes right now,
I though I would share some info about what I did with my trailer.
The picture should show that a 18 gallon tank, DOT rated fuel pump (13 gallons
per min.) and related welding for under 300 bucks. The concept really takes away
alot of fueling troubles. Adding a 12 volt motorcycle battery mounted on
the trailer allows stand alone independence from the auto. Coordination of the
tank location is a key factor which will not hinder the loading and unloading
of the plane. Prior to my creation, I had to use my 6 ft step ladder and 2 -
6 gallon containers of fuel (slow operation), and tiring.
Hope the pic makes it as this is my first time trying an attachment.
--------
kitfox III w/ 582 greyhead
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223857#223857
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kit_trailer_3_971.jpg
Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine Ground strap |
Sounds like a good aviation supply centre. ;-)
I happened to notice you are in Rockford. I was at the EAA first annual
national fly in at Rockford back in 1964. Never saw so much corn before in
my life! You guys have nice country.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
Noel, Thanks for info. I'm going to the aviation department of Farm and
Fleet today and buy a grounding strap.
do not archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
_____
From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
In a word... no. Sounds good to me.
Getting a reasonable ground to the frame from the battery isn't usually a
problem. Getting a good ground to the engine requires a good strap to jump
the engine mount. Missing or corroded grounding straps are a common place
to develop charging problems. It's a good idea to check your grounding
connections every year as part of your annual inspection.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
Kitfoxers, I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582. Is
there anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to the engine
mount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire to that bolt on the
inside of the firewall?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
n85ae wrote:
>
> ok, ok, ok. I Have the solution.
>
> A really BIG box, and styrofoam peanuts!
>
> Those packaging engineers aren't dummies, they invented that stuff
> for a good reason.
>
> Have a nice weekend.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223774#223774
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
NOW That is a good idea.....may be all so we could have UPS ship it for
us.from home to airport..that way you all so would not need a tow truck
to pull it..Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2 St.Marys Ohio
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a Kitfox |
Dwight Purdy wrote:
>
> I have never commented on this subject and am also tired of deleting
> them. That being said I must comment on this idea of fastening down
> tight. Who ever built my trailer made the tongue carry through too
> weak and it flexes a bunch. If you tie it down tight your plane
> becomes an integral part of the trailer. You do not want your
> longerons doing that! I need to beef up my trailer.
>
> Dwight Purdy
> Model II
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" <n85ae@yahoo.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 5:00 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Trailering a Kitfox
>
>
>>
>> Actually something to consider is your tiedowns. If you make your tires
>> really spongy, etc. Odds are good your planes gonna get damaged by
>> banging against the tiedowns. It's better to tie it down as tight as
>> possible,
>> and let the trailer suspension absorb the shock. The plane should be
>> tight
>> and the trailer suspension soft. That's the best way to do it.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223755#223755
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
Hey Dwight,,Steve Shinabery here..Hey some time you will have to come
and see my trailer..you are only 1hr west of me..and you can see old
N554KF all so..I know you remember her...You flew her..hope to see you
this summer...Steve Shinabery N554KF KF2
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the
installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the
transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit
of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area
between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru
engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90 fitting on
either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.
They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be
cleared more easily.
Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any
problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think
that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,
unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer
where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller
measuring device, right?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: kitfox trailer |
Rather than adding ballast to better match the trailer weight to the
springs, visit a spring shop & swap your springs to a lower rate set.
Trailer springs are quite inexpensive.
If you have multiple leaf springs, you can modify the existing units by
removal of the shortest leaf on both sides.
Jack
> I picked up a 19 foot boat single axle boat trailer for less than 300 with
decent wheels and bearings. I plan on cutting off the aftermost "shallow
vee" and replacing it with a straight "C" beam dropped about 8 inches so the
maingear area will be below the trailer deck and in less wind blast. The
trailer is designed for 1500 -2000 lb load, so I will probably add some iron
weights to get better spring performance and a smoother ride. Underloaded
trailers produce a very bouncy ride. I am thinking about some sort of vee
shaped nose with notches for the hor. Stab, also to reduce turbulence and
road rash. Any suggestions appreciated
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
Lynn Matteson wrote:
> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the
> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the
> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit
> of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area
> between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru
> engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90 fitting on
> either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.
> They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be
> cleared more easily.
> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any
> problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think
> that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,
> unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer
> where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller
> measuring device, right?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
> ignition system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
Lynn,
Mine is coming off the header tank behind the seat and I put about a 15% slope
to it. It works just fine.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223892#223892
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Ground strap |
Even more important than for battery charging, =C2-a good engine ground i
s=C2-critical=C2-for=C2-operation of electronic ignition.=C2- I not
ed a loose engine ground strap on the "collection of parts"=C2- I purchas
ed a few years back , after a NSI powered V ixen experienced complete engin
e=C2-stoppage on initial climbout, and was destro yed .
Jeff Probasco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 10:19:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
In a word... no.=C2- Sounds good to me.
Getting a reasonable ground to the frame from the battery isn=99t usu
ally a problem.=C2- Getting a good ground to the engine requires a good s
trap to jump the engine mount.=C2- Missing or corroded grounding straps a
re a common place to develop charging problems.=C2- It=99s a good i
dea to check your grounding connections every year as part of your annual i
nspection.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 2:30 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Engine Ground strap
Kitfoxers, I have the battery on the back of the firewall on my 582. Is the
re anything wrong with attaching the engine grounding strap to the engine m
ount thur bolt on the front and the battery ground wire to that bolt on the
inside of the firewall?
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List h
=========
==
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox |
Lots of good discussion and food for thought, guys! Dean Wilson
designed the Avid Flyer to withstand all of the aerodynamic loads
encountered in normal flight, and did a good job of it. Later Dan
Denney made a Chinese copy of the Avid and called it the Kitfox
--everything was originally the same except the name. The original idea
for the folding wings was to tow it with its towbar some 3-5 miles at
most to the nearest field, at a slow speed. I don't think that either
designer ever anticipated that some of us would be trailering the bird
for thousands of miles. The carry-through hinge points have been
designed for mostly compressive loads, with some tensile loads at
negative g's, never bending loads. Unfortunately, when trailering with
no outer wing support, almost all of the loads on the carry-through tube
are bending, and in alternating fore and aft directions. A recipe for
fatigue failure! Ask me how I know this!
Marco, I can't post the photos since I am in the Florida Keys working in
dial-up on a tiny netbook in between fishing trips. All of my photos
are in my main computer back home. But, you can see many of them on the
Avid Flyer chat site, as I posted previously.
And yes, Bob, it really sucks to live within the ADIZ :-( I envy you
being able to trailer for a couple of miles to a nice airfield! BTW,
the transport struts are indeed slim, they are 3/8" aluminum rods with
flattened ends to attach to the fittings. However, they seem to be
sufficient as they only have to absorb transient alternating
tension/compression loads, never sustained loads.
Pops
One hundred road miles for every flight!
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
Thanks Leonard...I might get away with a bit of slope to mine
too....drop the fuel line to the floor level of my console, a slight
bend up, then the transducer, then a slight bend from the transducer
to the roof of the console, then forward...ought to work.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
ignition system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Jan 10, 2009, at 1:56 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the
>> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the
>> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit
>> of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area
>> between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru
>> engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90 fitting on
>> either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.
>> They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be
>> cleared more easily.
>> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any
>> problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think
>> that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,
>> unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer
>> where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller
>> measuring device, right?
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
>> ignition system;
>> also building a new pair of snow skis
>> do not archive
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Mine is coming off the header tank behind the seat and I put about
> a 15% slope to it. It works just fine.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis
> takes over.
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223892#223892
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat |
On Sat, January 10, 2009 7:42 am, earnestj0 wrote:
>
> Thanks Rick, I would appreciate a photo and also information on the "waterless"
that
> you are talking about.
"In the 1980s inventor Jack Evans discovered the advantages of using a waterless
coolant. His final formulation is a mixture of ethylene glycol and propylene glycol.
This coolant has a high boiling point of 188 C (370 F) and is not corrosive, solving
many of water's problems including freezing."
<http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Antifreeze>
I got curious and did a little research on this. Rick talked about using NPG+ made
by
Evans Cooling. Here is their website.
<http://www.evanscooling.com/main1.htm>
I found nothing on their website that was other than sales/marketing/folklore
presentation. There is no "white paper" or generally accepted format for research
to
corroborate their claims.
Their product is called "NPG+" which is a corrosion inhibited propylene glycol
ethylene glycol blend.
It has a much higher temperature boiling point than an ideal mix of inhibited ethylene
glycol and water. However it is substantially more viscous (especially at low
temperatures), has a lower heat capacity and offers less freeze protection.
They make a claim that major engine manufacturers and specifically Rotax require
their
fluid.
I looked through all the Rotax service bulletins and found this:
<http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d02398.pdf>
Well, from reading that, it sounds like it is a little less than mandatory. A higher
pressure cap seems to be the emphasis and no where does it actually say that NPG
or
NPG+ is required.
Evans summarizes the properties in a table at the bottom of this page:
<http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm>
I have done quite a bit of research on failures of heat transfer systems filled
with
food grade glycol (propylene) and inhibited ethylene glycol. In fact I spent an
entire
year doing so. In large mixed metal systems the expected life of propylene glycol
as a
coolant is significantly less than ethylene glycol systems. The biggest contributor
to
failure is entrained air and high operating temperatures. The air oxidizes the
glycol
forming fairly long molecular chain organic acids. The inhibitors have capacity
to
buffer the pH change to a limit. What you'll notice with propylene glycol (NPG
and
NPG+) filled systems is steady and gradual discoloration of the coolant. It begins
to
start turning brown soon after installing and at some point it can start to form
a
corrosive sludge that will plug heat exchangers. Of course in a small engine, you
don't have to maintain inhibitors or worry about filtering, you just drain, flush
and
refill.
Because of the significantly lower heat capacity of pure inhibited propylene glycol,
more flow is required. For some applications this means using a higher flow capacity
water pump and more tubes in the radiator. The Evans people, in fact, sell cooling
system mods for engines they use in racing conditions because of this.
So, if you are convinced this is something you want to use, you will need to change
out the fluid more often and use twice as much than if you use 50-50 mix of water
and
inhibited ethylene glycol and you will not have the freeze protection and the NPG
or
NPG+ should not be operated much below 40F which is problematic in aircraft where
the
ambient air temperature is often colder than this.
I think using a higher pressure cap and the heavy duty (extended life) rated for
mixed
metals type of inhibited ethylene glycol which is color coded orange in the US
and is
the recommended fluid by Ford, GM, Chrysler, Caterpillar and Cummins is my preference
and I will use in my Rotax 914.
The extended life coolants use an entirely different corrosion inhibiting chemistry
that uses carboxylate organic acids instead of the silicates, phosphates or borates.
Here's a brief overview of engine coolants:
<http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant.htm>
I am neither endorsing nor discouraging the use of Evans' waterless coolant.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
Received mine today also. Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "akflyer" <akflyer_2000@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:56 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow indicator
>
>
> Lynn Matteson wrote:
>> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the
>> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the
>> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit
>> of a problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area
>> between the header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru
>> engine. I may have to install in my console, using a 90 fitting on
>> either side of it, due to limited vertical space inside the console.
>> They say the vertical mounting is so that any air bubbles can be
>> cleared more easily.
>> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any
>> problems? I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think
>> that any air bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly,
>> unless there is a "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer
>> where the impeller resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller
>> measuring device, right?
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
>> ignition system;
>> also building a new pair of snow skis
>> do not archive
>
>
> Lynn,
>
> Mine is coming off the header tank behind the seat and I put about a 15%
> slope to it. It works just fine.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over.
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223892#223892
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
7:59 PM
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox |
Dick Maddux wrote:
> I know we have beat this subject to death but I really would like to solicit
an opinion on the best way to check the rear spar pivot point for damage. Unfortunately
I had to trailer my Kitfox from just south of Boston to Pensacola ,Fl
due to the lousy weather enroute when I bought it. It was towed on a tandem
wheel trailer and it was a rough ride on the interstate due to the light weight
of the Kitfox. The tanks were empty and the front brace bar was installed. I
examined the rear spar pivot point visually upon arrival as I thought this might
be a possible weak point. It appeared to be ok but now with all this discussion
I think I will reexamine it. Any good ideas on how to check it other than
visual (i.e.: dye penetrant,etc) Any other areas to check?
> Thanks
> ? Dick Maddux
> ? Fox 4-1200
> ? Pensacola Fl
>
>
>
> New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making headlines (http://news.aol.com?ncid=emlcntusnews00000002).
I have to second this request. I did not even give it a thought as I figured the
support was enough. My plane has flown a handfull of times since the 1100
mile journey, but it would be nice to make sure those attach points are sound.
I looked them over as well and they looked OK, but if there are any other methods
of checking them, it would make me feel even more secure.
Andrew
815TL, Kitfox II, 582-C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223946#223946
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
larry huntley wrote:
> Received mine today also. Larry
> ---
Larry, let me know how you make out with it. Even though I only have the 10 gallon
tank in mine, it would be nice to be able to figure fuel burn rate for best
distance.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223947#223947
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
Lynn, not being one to follow the crowd or be quick to do what I'm told, I
mounted mine horizontally. Their reasons have merit. However, if it's
mounted down low, like mine is, just after it comes out of the header,
there should be no bubbles as they will move toward the highest point and
away from the transducer. Once it's installed, just pump a couple gallons
of gas through it and any air in the system should be gone. Over 400 hours
on mine and no problems.
You're correct on how the impeller works.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
>
> My Northstar F210 arrived today...that was quick. In reading the
> installation instructions (yeah, I'm one of those guys) for the
> transducer, it says to install vertically. This is going to be a bit of a
> problem for me because I don't have much of a vertical area between the
> header tank and my carb, which is down low on a Jabiru engine. I may have
> to install in my console, using a 90 fitting on either side of it, due
> to limited vertical space inside the console. They say the vertical
> mounting is so that any air bubbles can be cleared more easily.
> Has anyone mounted theirs horizontally? If so, have you had any problems?
> I can see their point regarding air bubbles, but I'd think that any air
> bubbles would vibrate themselves out rather quickly, unless there is a
> "trap" built into the cavity of the transducer where the impeller
> resides...I'm assuming this is a rotating-impeller measuring device,
> right?
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire
> ignition system;
> also building a new pair of snow skis
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat |
Paul,
This has sort of been my take on the Evans Coolant. I think we sometimes
forget that there are many airplanes experimantal and certified that use a
version of the Rotax 912. I know from group flying experience that the Rans
S-7 has a cooling problem and often has to step climb to avoid going into
temps I have never seen on my Model IV. It is my belief that the Evans
coolant might be appropriate for that application as the temps are much
higher than the boiling point of water. For me, I was never tempted to use
it. It is sort of like putting a cast on a perfectly good leg because my
friend has one on his leg.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Currently focusing on the Left Wing - doing the precover checklist, Rudder
trim system - my rib warp design, and Landing Gear - done.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul@eucleides.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: EA 81 Turbo Thermostat
> <paul@eucleides.com>
>
> On Sat, January 10, 2009 7:42 am, earnestj0 wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Rick, I would appreciate a photo and also information on the
>> "waterless" that
>> you are talking about.
>
> "In the 1980s inventor Jack Evans discovered the advantages of using a
> waterless
> coolant. His final formulation is a mixture of ethylene glycol and
> propylene glycol.
> This coolant has a high boiling point of 188 C (370 F) and is not
> corrosive, solving
> many of water's problems including freezing."
>
> <http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Antifreeze>
>
> I got curious and did a little research on this. Rick talked about using
> NPG+ made by
> Evans Cooling. Here is their website.
>
> <http://www.evanscooling.com/main1.htm>
>
> I found nothing on their website that was other than
> sales/marketing/folklore
> presentation. There is no "white paper" or generally accepted format for
> research to
> corroborate their claims.
>
> Their product is called "NPG+" which is a corrosion inhibited propylene
> glycol
> ethylene glycol blend.
>
> It has a much higher temperature boiling point than an ideal mix of
> inhibited ethylene
> glycol and water. However it is substantially more viscous (especially at
> low
> temperatures), has a lower heat capacity and offers less freeze
> protection.
>
> They make a claim that major engine manufacturers and specifically Rotax
> require their
> fluid.
>
> I looked through all the Rotax service bulletins and found this:
>
> <http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d02398.pdf>
>
> Well, from reading that, it sounds like it is a little less than
> mandatory. A higher
> pressure cap seems to be the emphasis and no where does it actually say
> that NPG or
> NPG+ is required.
>
> Evans summarizes the properties in a table at the bottom of this page:
>
> <http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm>
>
> I have done quite a bit of research on failures of heat transfer systems
> filled with
> food grade glycol (propylene) and inhibited ethylene glycol. In fact I
> spent an entire
> year doing so. In large mixed metal systems the expected life of propylene
> glycol as a
> coolant is significantly less than ethylene glycol systems. The biggest
> contributor to
> failure is entrained air and high operating temperatures. The air oxidizes
> the glycol
> forming fairly long molecular chain organic acids. The inhibitors have
> capacity to
> buffer the pH change to a limit. What you'll notice with propylene glycol
> (NPG and
> NPG+) filled systems is steady and gradual discoloration of the coolant.
> It begins to
> start turning brown soon after installing and at some point it can start
> to form a
> corrosive sludge that will plug heat exchangers. Of course in a small
> engine, you
> don't have to maintain inhibitors or worry about filtering, you just
> drain, flush and
> refill.
>
> Because of the significantly lower heat capacity of pure inhibited
> propylene glycol,
> more flow is required. For some applications this means using a higher
> flow capacity
> water pump and more tubes in the radiator. The Evans people, in fact, sell
> cooling
> system mods for engines they use in racing conditions because of this.
>
> So, if you are convinced this is something you want to use, you will need
> to change
> out the fluid more often and use twice as much than if you use 50-50 mix
> of water and
> inhibited ethylene glycol and you will not have the freeze protection and
> the NPG or
> NPG+ should not be operated much below 40F which is problematic in
> aircraft where the
> ambient air temperature is often colder than this.
>
> I think using a higher pressure cap and the heavy duty (extended life)
> rated for mixed
> metals type of inhibited ethylene glycol which is color coded orange in
> the US and is
> the recommended fluid by Ford, GM, Chrysler, Caterpillar and Cummins is my
> preference
> and I will use in my Rotax 914.
>
> The extended life coolants use an entirely different corrosion inhibiting
> chemistry
> that uses carboxylate organic acids instead of the silicates, phosphates
> or borates.
>
> Here's a brief overview of engine coolants:
>
> <http://www.aa1car.com/library/coolant.htm>
>
> I am neither endorsing nor discouraging the use of Evans' waterless
> coolant.
>
> --
> Paul A. Franz
> Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
> Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
> Bellevue WA
> 425.241.1618 Cell
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox |
> I know we have beat this subject to death but I really would like to solicit
an opinion on the best way to check the rear spar pivot point for damage.
First off, my opinion is that there would have to be some pretty rough treatment
for there to be damage to the rear spar attach/hinge area caused by hauling
on a trailer. Also, that enough bending force to do that damage would most likely
leave evidence of damage at the spar doublers too.
If I was worried about it, this is how I would inspect:
1, With the wings folded back have a helper (another person) push up and down on
the wing tip with enough force to flex the rear spar a little. Watch the attach
fitting and listen for creaking or popping sounds...anything unusual as
the wing is flexed by the helper. Push up and down on the wing tip yourself to
feel for anything unusual.
2. Spread the wings and do the same thing again.
3, Also have the helper push fore and aft on the wing tip with the wings spread
while you watch and listen at the rear spar attach fittings.
I trailer 10 miles each way every time I fly by the way.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223966#223966
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kitfox_trailer_airport_871.jpg
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel flow indicator |
Hi Andrew,
Heard you were under the weather. Hope things are picking up.
Kitfox will be a while. Champ fuselage will be out of the shop next week
Fox bottom cowl is undergoing surgery to reposition the radiator. It will be
in the shop next and will get a carb change and a muffler system. I think it
will fly within the month. Getting the skis cleaned up just in case..
I have a place in mind for the monitor ,but I have to read and find oiut
if it needs to be forward of the fuel pump or if it can be behind it just
below the header.
Small tank might be even more reason for a monitor.
Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 8:08 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel flow indicator
>
>
> larry huntley wrote:
>> Received mine today also. Larry
>> ---
>
>
> Larry, let me know how you make out with it. Even though I only have the
> 10 gallon tank in mine, it would be nice to be able to figure fuel burn
> rate for best distance.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223947#223947
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
7:59 PM
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Trailering a KitfoxTrailering a Kitfox |
Chuck sez:
>Dean Wilson designed the Avid Flyer to withstand all of the
>aerodynamic loads encountered in normal flight, and did a good job
>of it. Later Dan Denney made a Chinese copy of the Avid and called
>it the Kitfox --everything was originally the same except the name.
What happened when Wilson and Denney ended their partnership on the
original Avid Flyer has been beaten to death here and is not relevant
to a discussion of trailering or structural factors with the wings
folded. Those with an interest in that discussion can find it in the
list archives.
Mike G.
Kitfox List Administrator
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