---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/25/09: 59 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:51 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (Lynn Matteson) 2. 05:21 AM - Superflite vs Polyfiber (W Duke) 3. 05:59 AM - VG's (Catz631@aol.com) 4. 05:59 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (Lynn Matteson) 5. 06:23 AM - Re: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" (Lynn Matteson) 6. 06:32 AM - Re: VG's (Lynn Matteson) 7. 06:53 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (akflyer) 8. 06:58 AM - Re: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" (akflyer) 9. 07:03 AM - Re: VG's (akflyer) 10. 07:16 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (fox5flyer) 11. 07:59 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (Noel Loveys) 12. 08:04 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (Lynn Matteson) 13. 08:07 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (Noel Loveys) 14. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: Another flying adventure (Lynn Matteson) 15. 08:52 AM - Re:short wing pipers (EMAproducts@aol.com) 16. 09:06 AM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (Marco Menezes) 17. 09:10 AM - Re: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short (Marco Menezes) 18. 09:10 AM - Re: Superflite vs Polyfiber (Larry Huntley) 19. 09:17 AM - Re: Re:short wing pipers (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 20. 09:36 AM - Re: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short (Lynn Matteson) 21. 09:45 AM - Re: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" (Lynn Matteson) 22. 09:55 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (patrick reilly) 23. 09:58 AM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (patrick reilly) 24. 10:08 AM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (Malcolm Brubaker) 25. 10:09 AM - Re: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" (Lynn Matteson) 26. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: checking spark (Peerenboom's) 27. 10:13 AM - Re: Re:short wing pipers (Larry Huntley) 28. 10:14 AM - Re: Another flying adventure (Noel Loveys) 29. 10:17 AM - Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (JetPilot) 30. 10:50 AM - Re: Superflite vs Polyfiber (Ron Liebmann) 31. 11:15 AM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (JC Propeller Design) 32. 11:37 AM - Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (eskflyer) 33. 12:07 PM - Re: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (Lowell Fitt) 34. 12:36 PM - Enough (Jay & Beverly) 35. 12:57 PM - Re: Short Wing Pipers (crazyivan) 36. 01:18 PM - Re: Another flying adventure (Lynn Matteson) 37. 01:23 PM - Re: Enough (Vic Baker) 38. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (Lynn Matteson) 39. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: VG's (Noel Loveys) 40. 01:41 PM - Rotax 912 overvoltage (Catz631@aol.com) 41. 02:07 PM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (Guy Buchanan) 42. 02:07 PM - Re: Another flying adventure (John W. Hart) 43. 03:31 PM - Re: Rotax 912 overvoltage (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 44. 04:35 PM - KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel (Francisco Drovetta) 45. 04:57 PM - Re: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel (eskflyer) 46. 05:07 PM - Re: Enough (Clint Bazzill) 47. 05:13 PM - Fw: Superflite vs Polyfiber (Ron Liebmann) 48. 05:22 PM - Re: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel (Guy Buchanan) 49. 05:53 PM - Re: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 50. 06:06 PM - test (Ron Liebmann) 51. 06:07 PM - Re: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 52. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: checking spark (CDE2fly@AOL.COM) 53. 07:16 PM - Re: leading edge cuffs (benburb) 54. 07:51 PM - Back on the list after 9 years! (John Bonewitz) 55. 08:55 PM - Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (av8rps) 56. 09:12 PM - Re: Back on the list after 9 years! (Randy Daughenbaugh) 57. 09:21 PM - Re: Exhaust Manifold (Marco Menezes) 58. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox (gary.algate@sandvik.com) 59. 10:09 PM - Layne from Alaska (lkc@juno.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:38 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Well, the only printed matter that I have to reference is 43.13, and it allows " -20 to -35 degree ski incidence angle." Others here on this list thought minus 35 was a lot and said they set theirs at minus 25, so I did too. It worked fine for the other skis. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 24, 2009, at 10:00 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, Is 25 degrees down the normal limit for skis. It seems like > alot. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > > From: lynnmatt@jps.net > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 16:13:29 -0500 > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > > > > > After yesterdays disappointing aborted trip to Oshkosh, I needed to > > get back on the horse, so I managed to get the plane flying > > today...it got down to single digits overnight, so the previously > > soft snow, (which hadn't allowed me to take off yesterday) had > > frozen, and I was able to fly today. To make a long story and day > > short, I flew and landed at 5 different grass strips, 3 of which > > didn't have any previous tracks on them. Then when heading for home, > > I got the crap scared out of me when for no good reason at all, the > > plane just kinda shuddered, and slowed WAY down, and fell off to the > > left. I looked down and didn't see the left ski. I looked at the > > right ski, and it was there, and just about the time I had a landing > > site in sight...one of the previous strips that I had landed > earlier, > > Honey Acres (7N4)...I heard and felt the left ski snap back to its > > normal position. I continued flying to get home, but much slower, > > thinking that whatever caused the ski to flop downwards might have > > been caused by flying too fast into the wind. Landed without > incident > > at home. > > > > Maybe I got a sudden downdraft or a "chunk" of turbulence, I don't > > have a clue, but I gotta tell ya, this incident really got my > > attention. All I could think of at first was the oft-repeated anthem > > around here: "To date, no Kitfox has ever experienced an in-flight > > breakup." I was thinkin' well, here it comes, numero uno! > > > > My CFI and mentor is always preaching dual cables on skis, front and > > back, and this might have been the saving grace today. Something > > forced that left ski downward, and it must have met the limits of > the > > front restraint cables, which are set at about a 25 degree downward > > limit of ski travel. When it got to this limit, the "air brakes" > > really came on, slowed the plane, and then the shock cord snapped it > > back to the limit of the rear restraint cables. Another life used up > > of the original allowable inventory of 9. I don't know where I stand > > right now, but I gotta be getting close. > > > > Lynn Matteson > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > > Sensenich 62x46 > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > > New skis done and flying > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 24, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the offer to shoot your installation, Dick, but I've > got > > > mine installed now and it's working fine. I think I'll do like you > > > did, and shorten that HUGE long cable, too. My sender (transducer) > > > is at about a 45 degree angle within my console, and works > great. I > > > see 5.8 gals/hour during climbout, and down to anywhere from > > > 3.7-4.4 in cruise mode depending on rpm, wind direction, etc. > > > If you like adventures, I'm getting ready to post todays' rather > > > scary...briefly....hop, one of several hops I made in the snow > today. > > > > > > Lynn Matteson > > > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > > > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > > > Sensenich 62x46 > > > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > > > New skis done and flying > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 24, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > > > > > >> Lynn, > > >> In reply to the F210 installation I just wanted to pass on that > > >> I installed my sender about 2 inches above the gascolater > > >> (splicing into the fuel line). I shortened the electrical cord to > > >> about 3 ft (from about 15) and was able to connect to the > gauge in > > >> my panel. It worked out very nicely. I covered both the sender > and > > >> fuel line in aircraft fire sleeve and I now have a very stable > > >> installation. This is also a vertical installation as the > > >> instructions specify. If you want a picture of the installation > > >> let me know and I will remove the cowling and send you one. > > >> I too like having a fuel flow. Mine is indicating a fuel > > >> consumption of 3.3 gal at 5000 rpm. I thought that was rather low > > >> on my 912UL but prior computations at a few hundred rpm's less > was > > >> revealing 2.8 gph and that was over a 10 hour period. ????? > > >> I love your flying adventures by the way. > > >> > > >> Dick Maddux > > >> F > > >> ox 4-1200 > > >> > > >> Pensacola,Fl > > >> > > >> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, > stay up- > > >> to-date with the latest news. _-www.matronics.com/contribution _- > > >> ================================== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> _=============== > > > > > > > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:24 AM PST US From: W Duke Subject: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber I have a friend about to begin a Dakota Hawk project and he was wondering a bout Superflite covering.- I used Polyfiber.- Does anybody have experie nce with Superflite AND Polyfiber?- We would be interested in their compa rison.- Thanks in advance. Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:34 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: VG's I know this subject has been covered a thousand times but I thought I would throw in my 2 cents. While my BRS chute was off for repack (2 months) I had to have something to do so I decided to install the VG's I have had on hand for about a year. I have heard they really don't do much of anything on the Kitfox wing and tail but why not I am retired! Now they really worked on my Pacer so I was hoping for a little difference. Unfortunately, I was unable to check the numbers prior to installing them as my plane was apart for the annual condition inspection. I finally received the chute, scratched the tar out of my arms reinstalling it, and went flying. I stalled the airplane and the speed appears to be about the same. I also did some slow flight and tight turns. The only thing I did notice was the airplane seems to be more stable at slow speeds. It is hard to put words on the control feeling but it is there. Is it worth doing? Probably not. Do I like it? Yes,. My normal approach speed is now down to 55 vs 60 that I was using before. It doesn't woller around anymore when you fly it slow if that makes sense. Of course one thing to possibly realize here is I could have lost some of the control feel of an impending stall that you might have without VG's In any case,I like them and besides they are stuck on, so I better! **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:34 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some northern resident who lives on skis could answer. One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:51 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > Lynn > > when I had my skis I sent the front restraint cable so that it was > starting to tighten when the plain was in the standard 3 point > position. > > there was no way I could get a negative angle on my skis in flight! > > Regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > SMC, Exploration > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. > This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe > and happy Christmas". > > > Lynn Matteson > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > 25/01/2009 12:16 PM > Please respond to > kitfox-list@matronics.com > > To > kitfox-list@matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > > > AC 43.13 shows -20 to -35 degree angles for main ski incidence, and a > couple of years ago, when this was a current topic, somebody...a few, > actually...said that 25 was plenty, so I set mine at that figure. > This is the first time I've ever had this happen, and it got my > attention. What caused it I don't know, but I'll be asking advice > from other ski users locally. 43.13 also specs the down force > required to slacken the check cable, and for this size ski it is > 20-40 pounds of force. Maybe I need to set mine a bit higher because > of my 15" wide fronts, and narrower...6-1/2" wide rears. Because they > are dissimilar in area, maybe the air got hold of the front area and > blew it down, and the smaller rear area could not balance it out. I > never had this happen on the other skis, and I have exactly the same > cable and shock cord setup....1/8" stainless steel cables and 3/8" > shock cords. The shock cords have 2" of pre-stretch when they are > installed at the maximum positive incidence angle of +5 degrees. > > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > > > > > 25 Degrees down sounds pretty steep to me. What are the other guys > > using? > > > > Noel > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:16 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" Well, now I find that the FAA has an official name for what happened to me yesterday...it is called "ski tuck". I found a reference to ski tuck in publication "FAA-H-8083-3" It says in part "....when skis are not rigged properly, or when a pilot exceeds recommended airspeeds, that a ski will tuck down and give a momentary downward rotation of the nose of the aircraft. This is generally caused by spring or bungie (their spelling, not mine) tension not being sufficient to hold ski tips up. The pitching and yawing will get your undivided attention." To that last sentence I give a big AMEN! They go on to say ".....reduce power and reduce the speed of the aircraft. When the air loads are decreased below the tension of the spring or bungie, the ski will pitch back up into place and the control problem will go away. The proper fix is to get a maintenance shop to correctly adjust the spring or bungie tension and then not exceed the speed limits on the skis." That last sentence reminds me that I must get ahold of the dim bulb that built these skis and slap him about the head a bit and get him to issue a speed limit for these new skis, and to get him to issue a new tension tolerance for the "bungies"....damned experimenters, anyway! Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:43 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: VG's Being "stuck on" was the reason that I have decided...so far...not to install any on my plane, Dick. Unless the VG's come with explicit instructions for where and how many to install based on good info from *several* similar planes, I'd have to pass on this experiment myself. That, plus the problem that comes with keeping the plane washed...and I hate doing that....and it's a given for me not to try them. One other thing I just thought of....if they call for a specific position and I've got a rib or false rib in the way, what do I do? What did you do? I talked to one supplier of VG's, and he said they haven't been real impressed with their own VG's when used on a Kitfox...don't recall what model, engine, etc. he was referring to. That pretty much sold me. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 8:56 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > I know this subject has been covered a thousand times but I thought > I would throw in my 2 cents. > While my BRS chute was off for repack (2 months) I had to have > something to do so I decided to install the VG's I have had on hand > for about a year. I have heard they really don't do much of > anything on the Kitfox wing and tail but why not I am retired! Now > they really worked on my Pacer so I was hoping for a little > difference. Unfortunately, I was unable to check the numbers prior > to installing them as my plane was apart for the annual condition > inspection. > I finally received the chute, scratched the tar out of my arms > reinstalling it, and went flying. I stalled the airplane and the > speed appears to be about the same. I also did some slow flight and > tight turns. The only thing I did notice was the airplane seems to > be more stable at slow speeds. It is hard to put words on the > control feeling but it is there. Is it worth doing? Probably not. > Do I like it? Yes,. My normal approach speed is now down to 55 vs > 60 that I was using before. It doesn't woller around anymore when > you fly it slow if that makes sense. Of course one thing to > possibly realize here is I could have lost some of the control feel > of an impending stall that you might have without VG's > In any case,I like them and besides they are stuck on, so I better! > > From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up- > to-date with the latest news. _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:02 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Another flying adventure From: "akflyer" Lynn Matteson wrote: > Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like > it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords > should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to > think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if > 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some > northern resident who lives on skis could answer. > One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly > to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > Lynn, I set mine at -23 per the Avid instructions. The front bungee is pretty tight at a normal 3 point attitude. It still allows the skis to rotate with the tundra or loading it onto the trailer. I would pre-load the bungees more. Are you using mill spec bungee or hardware store variety? Cold temps does bad things to hardware store cheap bungee. They stretch and don't come back till it warms up. If it happens again, just pop the nose of the plane up then push it over a bit, they will pop back up into the proper attitude. You bout made me spit coffee all over the new laptop with the bold part LOL. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226685#226685 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:04 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" From: "akflyer" You are not going to get you fox going too fast for the skis unless you are in a power dive. Just tighten the bungee and have fun playing in the snow. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226687#226687 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:34 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VG's From: "akflyer" I used the land shorter VGs and can really tell a difference in the air. The AOA I get before stall is RIDICULOUS. You cant see over the nose yet she is still flying. The bad part is, to really notice they are on there, you have to get the nose up, and I cant do it on ski's. I could get the plane in the air ALOT quicker if I had more AOA on the wing. I have the tall gear etc, but would like to get that nose even higher. I may take a leaf out of the spring and take my chances that it will give me more AOA and not break. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226689#226689 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:54 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Lynn sounds like you need to either install stronger bungies or double them up. I don't think this is a cable problem. Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:13 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > After yesterdays disappointing aborted trip to Oshkosh, I needed to get > back on the horse, so I managed to get the plane flying today...it got > down to single digits overnight, so the previously soft snow, (which > hadn't allowed me to take off yesterday) had frozen, and I was able to > fly today. To make a long story and day short, I flew and landed at 5 > different grass strips, 3 of which didn't have any previous tracks on > them. Then when heading for home, I got the crap scared out of me when > for no good reason at all, the plane just kinda shuddered, and slowed WAY > down, and fell off to the left. I looked down and didn't see the left > ski. I looked at the right ski, and it was there, and just about the time > I had a landing site in sight...one of the previous strips that I had > landed earlier, Honey Acres (7N4)...I heard and felt the left ski snap > back to its normal position. I continued flying to get home, but much > slower, thinking that whatever caused the ski to flop downwards might > have been caused by flying too fast into the wind. Landed without > incident at home. > > Maybe I got a sudden downdraft or a "chunk" of turbulence, I don't have a > clue, but I gotta tell ya, this incident really got my attention. All I > could think of at first was the oft-repeated anthem around here: "To > date, no Kitfox has ever experienced an in-flight breakup." I was > thinkin' well, here it comes, numero uno! > > My CFI and mentor is always preaching dual cables on skis, front and > back, and this might have been the saving grace today. Something forced > that left ski downward, and it must have met the limits of the front > restraint cables, which are set at about a 25 degree downward limit of > ski travel. When it got to this limit, the "air brakes" really came on, > slowed the plane, and then the shock cord snapped it back to the limit of > the rear restraint cables. Another life used up of the original allowable > inventory of 9. I don't know where I stand right now, but I gotta be > getting close. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 24, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > >> >> Thanks for the offer to shoot your installation, Dick, but I've got mine >> installed now and it's working fine. I think I'll do like you did, and >> shorten that HUGE long cable, too. My sender (transducer) is at about a >> 45 degree angle within my console, and works great. I see 5.8 gals/hour >> during climbout, and down to anywhere from 3.7-4.4 in cruise mode >> depending on rpm, wind direction, etc. >> If you like adventures, I'm getting ready to post todays' rather >> scary...briefly....hop, one of several hops I made in the snow today. >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> New skis done and flying >> do not archive >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: >> >>> Lynn, >>> In reply to the F210 installation I just wanted to pass on that I >>> installed my sender about 2 inches above the gascolater (splicing into >>> the fuel line). I shortened the electrical cord to about 3 ft (from >>> about 15) and was able to connect to the gauge in my panel. It worked >>> out very nicely. I covered both the sender and fuel line in aircraft >>> fire sleeve and I now have a very stable installation. This is also a >>> vertical installation as the instructions specify. If you want a >>> picture of the installation let me know and I will remove the cowling >>> and send you one. >>> I too like having a fuel flow. Mine is indicating a fuel consumption >>> of 3.3 gal at 5000 rpm. I thought that was rather low on my 912UL but >>> prior computations at a few hundred rpm's less was revealing 2.8 gph >>> and that was over a 10 hour period. ????? >>> I love your flying adventures by the way. >>> Dick >>> Maddux >>> F ox >>> 4-1200 >>> >>> Pensacola,Fl >>> >>> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up- >>> to-date with the latest news. _-www.matronics.com/contribution _- >>> =========================================================== >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure I was just wondering... To be honest I haven't checked AC43... I forgot about your skis being wider on the front. That sure could make a difference to the amount of llift needed on the buhgees. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure AC 43.13 shows -20 to -35 degree angles for main ski incidence, and a couple of years ago, when this was a current topic, somebody...a few, actually...said that 25 was plenty, so I set mine at that figure. This is the first time I've ever had this happen, and it got my attention. What caused it I don't know, but I'll be asking advice from other ski users locally. 43.13 also specs the down force required to slacken the check cable, and for this size ski it is 20-40 pounds of force. Maybe I need to set mine a bit higher because of my 15" wide fronts, and narrower...6-1/2" wide rears. Because they are dissimilar in area, maybe the air got hold of the front area and blew it down, and the smaller rear area could not balance it out. I never had this happen on the other skis, and I have exactly the same cable and shock cord setup....1/8" stainless steel cables and 3/8" shock cords. The shock cords have 2" of pre-stretch when they are installed at the maximum positive incidence angle of +5 degrees. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > 25 Degrees down sounds pretty steep to me. What are the other guys > using? > > Noel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:44 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Nope, definitely not a cable problem...they don't come into play until the bungies stretch. That is, until the bungie stretches enough to allow the cable to reach their limits. And all the cables and bungies are already doubled, as in totally redundant systems....separate tabs, brackets, tangs, mounting holes, etc. I've got 3/8" Aircraft Spruce brand new shock cord, so I guess I need to shorten them just a wee bit. I'll put a tension gauge on them and see what they are right now. I first ordered 1/2" shock cord (forgetting what I had ordered two years ago, and not being able to really tell what size is what by looking and measuring) and that stuff is WAY too strong for the application....I think! I sent it back and ordered the 3/8", then found some 3/8" left over from the previous skis...but did not use it, fearing weakness over the two years sitting on the shelf. Not knowing how close the tolerances are for shock cord, or how stringent Spruce is about checking, we are at their mercy..."let the buyer beware." One point I should make about Aircraft Spruce shock cord....when I first started on the skis I made two years ago, I had no idea of what size I should use, so I ordered 1/4", 5/16", 3/8" and 1/2". The 1/4" was stronger than the 5/16"! I felt like the 3/8" was what I should use, based on the 43.13 table that shows 1/2" to be used on 1500-3000 "Ski Limit Load Rating"...(whatever that means). I assumed that my skis would have lesser load rating than any table that the FAA published before the LSA planes came along (or if they even cared about the lighter, smaller planes), so I went with the 3/8" cords, and they worked for two years. Now with a different ski "footprint", the air might be getting a better bite on the nose of the ski, and that may be what pulled the nose of the ski down into the dreaded "ski tuck", not to be confused with its cousin, Friar Tuck. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 10:15 AM, fox5flyer wrote: > > > Lynn sounds like you need to either install stronger bungies or > double them up. I don't think this is a cable problem. > Deke > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" > To: > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:13 AM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > >> >> After yesterdays disappointing aborted trip to Oshkosh, I needed >> to get back on the horse, so I managed to get the plane flying >> today...it got down to single digits overnight, so the >> previously soft snow, (which hadn't allowed me to take off >> yesterday) had frozen, and I was able to fly today. To make a >> long story and day short, I flew and landed at 5 different grass >> strips, 3 of which didn't have any previous tracks on them. Then >> when heading for home, I got the crap scared out of me when for >> no good reason at all, the plane just kinda shuddered, and slowed >> WAY down, and fell off to the left. I looked down and didn't see >> the left ski. I looked at the right ski, and it was there, and >> just about the time I had a landing site in sight...one of the >> previous strips that I had landed earlier, Honey Acres (7N4)...I >> heard and felt the left ski snap back to its normal position. I >> continued flying to get home, but much slower, thinking that >> whatever caused the ski to flop downwards might have been caused >> by flying too fast into the wind. Landed without incident at home. >> >> Maybe I got a sudden downdraft or a "chunk" of turbulence, I >> don't have a clue, but I gotta tell ya, this incident really got >> my attention. All I could think of at first was the oft-repeated >> anthem around here: "To date, no Kitfox has ever experienced an >> in-flight breakup." I was thinkin' well, here it comes, numero uno! >> >> My CFI and mentor is always preaching dual cables on skis, front >> and back, and this might have been the saving grace today. >> Something forced that left ski downward, and it must have met the >> limits of the front restraint cables, which are set at about a 25 >> degree downward limit of ski travel. When it got to this limit, >> the "air brakes" really came on, slowed the plane, and then the >> shock cord snapped it back to the limit of the rear restraint >> cables. Another life used up of the original allowable inventory >> of 9. I don't know where I stand right now, but I gotta be >> getting close. >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> New skis done and flying >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2009, at 3:34 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: >> >>> >>> Thanks for the offer to shoot your installation, Dick, but I've >>> got mine installed now and it's working fine. I think I'll do >>> like you did, and shorten that HUGE long cable, too. My sender >>> (transducer) is at about a 45 degree angle within my console, >>> and works great. I see 5.8 gals/hour during climbout, and down >>> to anywhere from 3.7-4.4 in cruise mode depending on rpm, wind >>> direction, etc. >>> If you like adventures, I'm getting ready to post todays' rather >>> scary...briefly....hop, one of several hops I made in the snow >>> today. >>> >>> Lynn Matteson >>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >>> Sensenich 62x46 >>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >>> New skis done and flying >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 24, 2009, at 9:29 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> Lynn, >>>> In reply to the F210 installation I just wanted to pass on >>>> that I installed my sender about 2 inches above the gascolater >>>> (splicing into the fuel line). I shortened the electrical cord >>>> to about 3 ft (from about 15) and was able to connect to the >>>> gauge in my panel. It worked out very nicely. I covered both >>>> the sender and fuel line in aircraft fire sleeve and I now have >>>> a very stable installation. This is also a vertical >>>> installation as the instructions specify. If you want a picture >>>> of the installation let me know and I will remove the cowling >>>> and send you one. >>>> I too like having a fuel flow. Mine is indicating a fuel >>>> consumption of 3.3 gal at 5000 rpm. I thought that was rather >>>> low on my 912UL but prior computations at a few hundred rpm's >>>> less was revealing 2.8 gph and that was over a 10 hour >>>> period. ????? >>>> I love your flying adventures by the way. >>>> >>>> Dick Maddux >>>> >>>> F ox 4-1200 >>>> Pensacola,Fl >>>> >>>> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay >>>> up- to-date with the latest news. _-www.matronics.com/ >>>> contribution _- >>>> =========================================================== >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:34 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Can you draw a little thumb nail diagram as to what wires you have and how they are connected? Draw freehand and scan. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Reilly Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:37 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Kitfoxers, This will be the last dumb question I ask......tonight. I am rewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave the switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But, it is wired backwards, at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio, lights, etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switch and a fuse. But, all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup? Pat Reilly Rockford, IL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:11 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Another flying adventure I'm using Aircraft Spruce, newly purchased for this project, 3/8" shock cord and new fasteners. I'm gonna shorten them a tad, even though it is tough for me to slacken them at 3-point position, which I do when I think of it for overnight or longer hangaring...suggested by another FAA publication on skiplane flying. I was thinking long the same lines of saving it....do a power off stall, and wait for it to return. Then head s-l-o-w-l-y for home and new skivvies, and a beer or six. Ya gotta have a spit shield on when readin' my sh--....er, stuff, Lenni...now and then I get a good one off. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:52 AM, akflyer wrote: > > > Lynn Matteson wrote: >> Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like >> it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords >> should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to >> think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if >> 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some >> northern resident who lives on skis could answer. >> One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly >> to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> New skis done and flying >> >> > > > Lynn, > > I set mine at -23 per the Avid instructions. The front bungee is > pretty tight at a normal 3 point attitude. It still allows the > skis to rotate with the tundra or loading it onto the trailer. > > I would pre-load the bungees more. Are you using mill spec bungee > or hardware store variety? Cold temps does bad things to hardware > store cheap bungee. They stretch and don't come back till it warms > up. > > If it happens again, just pop the nose of the plane up then push it > over a bit, they will pop back up into the proper attitude. > > You bout made me spit coffee all over the new laptop with the bold > part LOL. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis > takes over. > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226685#226685 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:39 AM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:short wing pipers Whoops my fingers didn't do what my brain said PA-22's are converted to PA-20's Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:46 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold My grayhead's exhaust is mounted same as yours, Pat. It all fits and it wor ks like it's supposed to. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Pat Reilly wrote: From: Pat Reilly Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold Kitfoxers. Looking at a closeup of a Bluehead -582 engine installation Bi ll Chenoweths), I see the exhaust manifold is installed angled down with th e EGT sensor mounts on the bottom. I swear when I received my used engine t he manifold was mounted angled up with the EGT probe mounts up. I have rein stalled the engine and mounted the pipe and muffler. Fits fine with probe m ounts up. And looking at it, I believe if I flipped the manifold over the p ipe/muffler would be too low to bolt up. What gives? Were some engines inst alled with exhaust manifold up and others down? I sure hate to remove mine with all the springs saftey wired already, flip it over and find I am right and the pipe won't bolt up. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:49 AM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short Dick, that must be some fat firesleeve to fit over the sender. Don't suppos e you have about 4" of that scrap left over from your installation? Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Catz631@aol.com wrote: From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short Lynn, -- In reply to the F210 installation I just wanted to pass on that I in stalled my sender about 2 inches above the gascolater (splicing into the fu el line). I shortened the electrical cord to about 3 ft (from about 15) and was able to connect to the gauge in my panel. It worked out very nicely. I covered both the sender and fuel line in aircraft fire sleeve and I now ha ve a very stable installation. This is also a vertical installation as the instructions specify. If you want a picture of the installation let me know and I will remove the cowling and send you one. - I too like having a fuel flow. Mine is indicating a fuel consumption of 3.3 gal at 5000 rpm. I thought that was rather low on my 912UL but prior c omputations at a few hundred rpm's less was revealing 2.8 gph and that was over a 10 hour period. ????? - I love your flying adventures by the way. ------------------------- ------------------------- ---------------- Dick Maddux ------------------------- ------------------------- ----------------- Fox 4-1200 ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------ Pensacola,Fl >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:49 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber A friend did his Pacer in Superflite and thinks it is quite heavy. I used to use Polt,but now use Stewart's. Stewart's is quite a bit lighter and not toxic. That is what I just used to recovered my 4-1200. (and my Tripacer) Larry Huntley 4-1200 Soob EA81 AMAX redrive,warp drive prop. ----- Original Message ----- From: W Duke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber I have a friend about to begin a Dakota Hawk project and he was wondering about Superflite covering. I used Polyfiber. Does anybody have experience with Superflite AND Polyfiber? We would be interested in their comparison. Thanks in advance. Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 1/24/2009 8:40 PM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re:short wing pipers From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Sun, January 25, 2009 8:50 am, EMAproducts@aol.com wrote: > > > Whoops my fingers didn't do what my brain said PA-22's are converted to > PA-20's What I learned here is that there are STC's for conversion of PA-20's to PA-22's. I was unaware of the early PA-20 version. So apparently conversions have been done and there are STC's for both tricycle <==> conventional swaps. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:23 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short 2.8 gph? man, I gotta get one of those engines that you're using! Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 25, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Marco Menezes wrote: > Dick, that must be some fat firesleeve to fit over the sender. > Don't suppose you have about 4" of that scrap left over from your > installation? > Marco Menezes N99KX > Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch > > --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > From: Catz631@aol.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: trip to Oshkosh/big prep, short > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 9:29 AM > > Lynn, > In reply to the F210 installation I just wanted to pass on that > I installed my sender about 2 inches above the gascolater (splicing > into the fuel line). I shortened the electrical cord to about 3 ft > (from about 15) and was able to connect to the gauge in my panel. > It worked out very nicely. I covered both the sender and fuel line > in aircraft fire sleeve and I now have a very stable installation. > This is also a vertical installation as the instructions specify. > If you want a picture of the installation let me know and I will > remove the cowling and send you one. > I too like having a fuel flow. Mine is indicating a fuel > consumption of 3.3 gal at 5000 rpm. I thought that was rather low > on my 912UL but prior computations at a few hundred rpm's less was > revealing 2.8 gph and that was over a 10 hour period. ????? > I love your flying adventures by the way. > > Dick Maddux > > Fox 4-1200 > P > ensacola,Fl > > >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up- > to-date with the latest news. > > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:17 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" Earlier I mentioned FAA publication #FAA-H-8083-3. Another source for more extensive information on ski and float-equipped airplanes (and choppers) can be found in FAA-H-8083-23, which finally surfaced when I cleaned up the "publication area"...that area of my floor where the publications all drop from my hands when I fall asleep while reading them. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > Well, now I find that the FAA has an official name for what > happened to me yesterday...it is called "ski tuck". I found a > reference to ski tuck in publication "FAA-H-8083-3" It says in > part "....when skis are not rigged properly, or when a pilot > exceeds recommended airspeeds, that a ski will tuck down and give a > momentary downward rotation of the nose of the aircraft. This is > generally caused by spring or bungie (their spelling, not mine) > tension not being sufficient to hold ski tips up. The pitching and > yawing will get your undivided attention." To that last > sentence I give a big AMEN! > > They go on to say ".....reduce power and reduce the speed of the > aircraft. When the air loads are decreased below the tension of the > spring or bungie, the ski will pitch back up into place and the > control problem will go away. The proper fix is to get a > maintenance shop to correctly adjust the spring or bungie tension > and then not exceed the speed limits on the skis." > > That last sentence reminds me that I must get ahold of the dim bulb > that built these skis and slap him about the head a bit and get him > to issue a speed limit for these new skis, and to get him to issue > a new tension tolerance for the "bungies"....damned experimenters, > anyway! > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:10 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Noel=2C Thanks for reply. I have a scanner that I haven't learned how to us e yet. I will try to figure it out later. A panel master switch connects one terminal of each of the switches with a common wire. The other switch t erminal runs to a fuse and then a wire from the fuse to the load=2C radio =2C strobe light=2C nav lights=2C etc. There is a different fuse that estab lishes a circuit for each load. All schematics that I am familiar with run from the buss to individual fuses first=2C then to a switch and then to the load. Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: noelloveys@yahoo.caTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Kitfox-L ist: Panel WiringDate: Sun=2C 25 Jan 2009 12:36:25 -0330 Can you draw a little thumb nail diagram as to what wires you have and how they are connected? Draw freehand and scan. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat ReillySent: Sunday=2C January 25=2C 2009 12:37 AMTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comSubject: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Kitfoxers=2C This will be the last dumb question I ask......tonight. I am r ewiring the panel on the mod 3 582 I am rebuilding. I would like to leave t he switch / fuse portion of the wiring as is . But=2C it is wired backwards =2C at least to my limited electrical experience. The power is supplied to the switches first & then to the fuses and on out to the radio=2C lights=2C etc.. I don't see anything wrong with this setup. Each circuit has a switc h and a fuse. But=2C all the switches are connected together. Is there any problem with this setup? Pat Reilly Rockford=2C IL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums .matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:00 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold Marco=2C Thanks for info. How do you like that clutch? do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL Kitfox-List: Exhaust ManifoldTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com My grayhead's exhaust is mounted same as yours=2C Pat. It all fits and it w orks like it's supposed to. Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch--- On Sat=2C 1/10/09=2C Pat Reilly wrote: From: Pat Reilly Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Man ifoldTo: kitfox-list@matronics.comDate: Saturday=2C January 10=2C 2009=2C 3 :25 PM Kitfoxers. Looking at a closeup of a Bluehead 582 engine installation Bill Chenoweths)=2C I see the exhaust manifold is installed angled down with th e EGT sensor mounts on the bottom. I swear when I received my used engine t he manifold was mounted angled up with the EGT probe mounts up. I have rein stalled the engine and mounted the pipe and muffler. Fits fine with probe m ounts up. And looking at it=2C I believe if I flipped the manifold over the pipe/muffler would be too low to bolt up. What gives? Were some engines in stalled with exhaust manifold up and others down? I sure hate to remove min e with all the springs saftey wired already=2C flip it over and find I am r ight and the pipe won't bolt up. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford=2C IL 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:30 AM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold has anybody ever figured out how much power is lost or the effect it has on accurate egt readings- by chopping the elbow and muffler? --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Marco Menezes wrote: From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold My grayhead's exhaust is mounted same as yours, Pat. It all fits and it wor ks like it's supposed to. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Pat Reilly wrote: From: Pat Reilly Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold Kitfoxers. Looking at a closeup of a Bluehead -582 engine installation Bi ll Chenoweths), I see the exhaust manifold is installed angled down with th e EGT sensor mounts on the bottom. I swear when I received my used engine t he manifold was mounted angled up with the EGT probe mounts up. I have rein stalled the engine and mounted the pipe and muffler. Fits fine with probe m ounts up. And looking at it, I believe if I flipped the manifold over the p ipe/muffler would be too low to bolt up. What gives? Were some engines inst alled with exhaust manifold up and others down? I sure hate to remove mine with all the springs saftey wired already, flip it over and find I am right and the pipe won't bolt up. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:29 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure/"Ski tuck" At the risk of annoying those that count posts, I feel I should set the record straight on two matters. The latest publication of the two I mentioned, FAA-H-8083-23, published in 2004, says in the Preface: "This handbook supercedes (sic) Chapters 16 and 17 of FAA_H_8083-3, Airplane Flying Handbook, dated 1999. This handbook is available for download from the Flight Standards Service Web site at http://av- info.faa.gov. This Web site also provides information about availability of printed copies." This is important stuff because the latest publication now apparently accepts the spelling "bungee" as superseding the former spelling of "bungie," as found in the earlier publication. They still need to work on "supersedes" Kidding aside, the newest publication is very informative on matters pertaining to ski flying, from this rookies' view, and they've got me reassured that my "ski tuck" was not an unusual happening. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:35 AM PST US From: "Peerenboom's" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking spark Most of the problems I have had with a 300rpm drop were traced to a spark plug cap. Two were the spring clip for the top of the plug. Check the fit of each plug. "If it don't click pitch" Paul N102DG Model IV 912UL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Lee" Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:41 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: checking spark > > Hi Pat, > > The tester you want is the 50-1000 volt. Spark plugs are high energy AC. > Then when you aren't using it on the plane I'm sure you have some honey > do's where it might come in handy. It will not work on 12 volt. > The modules don't go bad that often. They are over a $1,000 each. If you > are only dropping approximately 300 rpm then it is a plug or wire. It is > not the module. A bad module is about 800+ rpm. The plug wires can be > replaced as they are only screwed into the plug boot and ignition coil. > The tester I posted will pick out the bad wire or plug. Most of the time > it is a bad connection at the plug boot or a bad ground wire up by the > modules. Find the effected wire with the tester. Pull the plug boot and > trim the wire back about 1/4"-3/8" and re-insert the wire into the boot > and or change the plug. You can unplug the modules on top of the engine > and swap them and see if the problem follows the module or stays the same. > This will help tell you, along with the plug wire testing where the > problem probably is. > > Who ever is having the problem what is the rpm drop during the mag check? > > -------- > Roger Lee > Tucson, Az. > Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated > Rotax Service Center > 520-574-1080 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226612#226612 > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:21 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re:short wing pipers You're all right Elbie. I noticed earlier that I had said they brought out the PA-22 Pacer instead of PA20 pacer. You show up everywhere! Larry Huntley B75L ----- Original Message ----- From: EMAproducts@aol.com To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:50 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:short wing pipers Whoops my fingers didn't do what my brain said PA-22's are converted to PA-20's Elbie Mendenhall, EM Aviation, LLC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 1/24/2009 8:40 PM ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:36 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Lynn: What page in AC43 did you find the spec for the skis? I've been looking and found nothing on installation. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some northern resident who lives on skis could answer. One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:51 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > > Lynn > > when I had my skis I sent the front restraint cable so that it was > starting to tighten when the plain was in the standard 3 point > position. > > there was no way I could get a negative angle on my skis in flight! > > Regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > SMC, Exploration > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. > "This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe > and happy Christmas". > > > Lynn Matteson > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > 25/01/2009 12:16 PM > Please respond to > kitfox-list@matronics.com > > To > kitfox-list@matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > > > AC 43.13 shows -20 to -35 degree angles for main ski incidence, and a > couple of years ago, when this was a current topic, somebody...a few, > actually...said that 25 was plenty, so I set mine at that figure. > This is the first time I've ever had this happen, and it got my > attention. What caused it I don't know, but I'll be asking advice > from other ski users locally. 43.13 also specs the down force > required to slacken the check cable, and for this size ski it is > 20-40 pounds of force. Maybe I need to set mine a bit higher because > of my 15" wide fronts, and narrower...6-1/2" wide rears. Because they > are dissimilar in area, maybe the air got hold of the front area and > blew it down, and the smaller rear area could not balance it out. I > never had this happen on the other skis, and I have exactly the same > cable and shock cord setup....1/8" stainless steel cables and 3/8" > shock cords. The shock cords have 2" of pre-stretch when they are > installed at the maximum positive incidence angle of +5 degrees. > > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > > > > > 25 Degrees down sounds pretty steep to me. What are the other guys > > using? > > > > Noel > > > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:29 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox From: "JetPilot" Dick Maddux wrote: > Well, Lowell, junior's at it again. Maybe we are missing the boat. He might be a rocket scientist or senior aeronautical engineer. > Dick, The only comments you or Lowell have posted in relation to the subject of cutting a Kitfox wings to 26 feet have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Lowell only tried to distract people away from the facts with his post, and your post has zero information on this subject, and does is nothing other than try to belittle me. If you think I am wrong and am giving Paul bad advice, lets hear why. A childish and uncalled for comment like you just posted just reflects very badly on you. You being an ex military and airline pilot, I really expected you to post something far more intelligent and informative on this subject than this. You are not the person I thought you were. What Paul needs is good information on the likely results of clipping his Kitfox wings down to 26 feet. If you disagree with me, post some factual information as to why, and something that can help anyone that is thinking about shortening the wingspan of their Kitfox make an informed decision. This is a good subject and it should be kept on topic. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226730#226730 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:31 AM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber Hi Max, Four guys from EAA 790 in Barrington IL used the Superflite system back in 1992, 93 & 94 and still are very happy with their polyurethane process. More recently I completed restoring a 1941 Taylorcraft using their complete system. I'll try to include pictures of both my Kitfox and the T-Craft for you to see a final product. If ya have questions you can e-mail me off line. rliebmann@comcast.net Ron N55KF ----- Original Message ----- From: W Duke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber I have a friend about to begin a Dakota Hawk project and he was wondering about Superflite covering. I used Polyfiber. Does anybody have experience with Superflite AND Polyfiber? We would be interested in their comparison. Thanks in advance. Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:19 AM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold Yes ask Dick about that ----- Original Message ----- From: Malcolm Brubaker To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold has anybody ever figured out how much power is lost or the effect it has on accurate egt readings by chopping the elbow and muffler? --- On Sun, 1/25/09, Marco Menezes wrote: From: Marco Menezes Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Date: Sunday, January 25, 2009, 5:04 PM My grayhead's exhaust is mounted same as yours, Pat. It all fits and it works like it's supposed to. Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Pat Reilly wrote: From: Pat Reilly Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Date: Saturday, January 10, 2009, 3:25 PM Kitfoxers. Looking at a closeup of a Bluehead 582 engine installation Bill Chenoweths), I see the exhaust manifold is installed angled down with the EGT sensor mounts on the bottom. I swear when I received my used engine the manifold was mounted angled up with the EGT probe mounts up. I have reinstalled the engine and mounted the pipe and muffler. Fits fine with probe mounts up. And looking at it, I believe if I flipped the manifold over the pipe/muffler would be too low to bolt up. What gives? Were some engines installed with exhaust manifold up and others down? I sure hate to remove mine with all the springs saftey wired already, flip it over and find I am right and the pipe won't bolt up. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3798 (20090125) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:59 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox From: "eskflyer" UHHH Rocket dude . Are you a expert who can say that 26 foot wing is bad , Have you done this and verified how horrible it will be in your opinion . I to fly a short wing PIPER and love it . PA22/20 with 150 HP . Absolutely no bad habits at all. Now i did own a kitfox and darn you cant see over the dash when the tail is down . Is that a horrible problem Gee how many have ground looped a kitfox ?. Does this make the Kitfox a horrible plane ?. No it does not at all. they both are a rudder plane you stay on your toes or you might be on your nose. That being said i think you need need to pull your head out and breath some fresh air Mike . OK i know i will be banned again lol. John N3579erA -------- FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA 1220 Full Lotus Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226741#226741 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:07:58 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox Comeon Mike, There is no good information on Paul's plan. Paul is an experimenter. Nobody has gone on before, so no one has anything to say. He has an idea and wants to persue it. Your "good information" about how bad the Tripacer and Pacer fly has been soundly debunked by a number of experienced list members so your "good information" is worth less than junk. I spent a couple of hours this morning on the web reading about airfoils. It would take an aeronotical engineer to predict what the increased wing loading would do to performance. That is all the clipping would do, increase wing loading and possibly the angle of attack. And I suspect what the unnamed aeronotical engineer would do is put the numbers in his computer and it would spit out the results. That said though, I suspect if he had significant airfoil design experience he could likely predict trends. As for you and me, trying to do the same by using hangar talk, aircraft history (Piper TriPacer - different airfoil to be sure), or any other irrelivent nonsense neither helps Paul nor is it informative to list members. That is why I haven't commented on his plans, and I respectfully invite you to refrain as well. It might surprise you that you are the only one reading these posts that think your comments have any relevency. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox > > > Dick Maddux wrote: >> Well, Lowell, junior's at it again. Maybe we are missing the boat. He >> might be a rocket scientist or senior aeronautical engineer. >> > > > Dick, > > The only comments you or Lowell have posted in relation to the subject of > cutting a Kitfox wings to 26 feet have nothing to do with the subject at > hand. Lowell only tried to distract people away from the facts with his > post, and your post has zero information on this subject, and does is > nothing other than try to belittle me. If you think I am wrong and am > giving Paul bad advice, lets hear why. A childish and uncalled for > comment like you just posted just reflects very badly on you. You being > an ex military and airline pilot, I really expected you to post something > far more intelligent and informative on this subject than this. You are > not the person I thought you were. > > What Paul needs is good information on the likely results of clipping his > Kitfox wings down to 26 feet. If you disagree with me, post some factual > information as to why, and something that can help anyone that is thinking > about shortening the wingspan of their Kitfox make an informed decision. > This is a good subject and it should be kept on topic. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226730#226730 > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:16 PM PST US From: "Jay & Beverly" Subject: Kitfox-List: Enough Enough short wing Pipers. Enough sniping. PLEASE! Jay C. S-6, 290-D Lyc. Arkansas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:57:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Short Wing Pipers From: "crazyivan" You're right. It isn't a death trap. Look up the NTSB database. The "deathtrap" reputation came from the fact that some Pacers had their wings break off. They identified this as a problem a long time ago and found that the wing struts were rusting and failing. Since then an AD was issued and they came out with sealed struts and stronger attachment forks. The only Pacers that lost their wings over the past 20 years were those that didn't comply with the AD. There was one where the spar cracked off but that was due to shoddy extensive maintenance by the owner (non A&P). -------- Dave Speedster 912 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226753#226753 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:21 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure The ski info is all in AC 43.13-2A, which seems to be an addition to 43.13-1B combined with change 1. The actual page numbers for the ski installation are pages 33-41. This is according to my copy which is dated 9/8/98. The skis stuff shows "Rev 1977" If you have the actual book, it's way in the back...if you're going online to view it, I have no idea except to look for "-2A". As usual, FAA thinking went into this, and I can't make sense out of their numbering system. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Lynn: > > What page in AC43 did you find the spec for the skis? > > I've been looking and found nothing on installation. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:26 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > > Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like > it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords > should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to > think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if > 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some > northern resident who lives on skis could answer. > One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly > to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:51 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > >> >> Lynn >> >> when I had my skis I sent the front restraint cable so that it was >> starting to tighten when the plain was in the standard 3 point >> position. >> >> there was no way I could get a negative angle on my skis in flight! >> >> Regards >> >> Gary >> >> Gary Algate >> SMC, Exploration >> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 >> >> >> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the >> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >> this message by persons or entities other than the intended >> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, >> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the >> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for >> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may >> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. >> "This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we >> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe >> and happy Christmas". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> 25/01/2009 12:16 PM >> Please respond to >> kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> To >> kitfox-list@matronics.com >> cc >> Subject >> Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure >> >> >> >> >> >> >> AC 43.13 shows -20 to -35 degree angles for main ski incidence, and a >> couple of years ago, when this was a current topic, somebody...a few, >> actually...said that 25 was plenty, so I set mine at that figure. >> This is the first time I've ever had this happen, and it got my >> attention. What caused it I don't know, but I'll be asking advice >> from other ski users locally. 43.13 also specs the down force >> required to slacken the check cable, and for this size ski it is >> 20-40 pounds of force. Maybe I need to set mine a bit higher because >> of my 15" wide fronts, and narrower...6-1/2" wide rears. Because they >> are dissimilar in area, maybe the air got hold of the front area and >> blew it down, and the smaller rear area could not balance it out. I >> never had this happen on the other skis, and I have exactly the same >> cable and shock cord setup....1/8" stainless steel cables and 3/8" >> shock cords. The shock cords have 2" of pre-stretch when they are >> installed at the maximum positive incidence angle of +5 degrees. >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> New skis done and flying >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> >> >>> >>> 25 Degrees down sounds pretty steep to me. What are the other guys >>> using? >>> >>> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:44 PM PST US From: "Vic Baker" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Enough I second that! do not archive Vic Baker S7 912S Warp Phase 1 flight testing Carson City, Nv ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay & Beverly" Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 12:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Enough > > > Enough short wing Pipers. > > Enough sniping. > > PLEASE! > > Jay C. S-6, 290-D Lyc. Arkansas > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:11 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox Hey John...long time no hear from. You gave me much-needed advice when I built my first set of skis (when you were in Oklahoma? Kansas? ) Just finished another pair, and they work fine too. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:34 PM, eskflyer wrote: > > UHHH Rocket dude . Are you a expert who can say that 26 foot wing > is bad , Have you done this and verified how horrible it will be in > your opinion . > I to fly a short wing PIPER and love it . PA22/20 with 150 HP . > Absolutely no bad habits at all. Now i did own a kitfox and darn > you cant see over the dash when the tail is down . Is that a > horrible problem Gee how many have ground looped a kitfox ?. Does > this make the Kitfox a horrible plane ?. No it does not at all. > they both are a rudder plane you stay on your toes or you might be > on your nose. > > That being said i think you need need to pull your head out and > breath some fresh air Mike . > > OK i know i will be banned again lol. > > John N3579erA > > -------- > FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW > John Perry > Kitfox 2 N718PD > 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA > 1220 Full Lotus > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226741#226741 > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:01 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: VG's Go to a spring shop and have them anneal the spring, give it a new bend and re-temper it. Spring shops can work on all the leaves at the same time. Don't try it at home. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 11:33 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VG's I used the land shorter VGs and can really tell a difference in the air. The AOA I get before stall is RIDICULOUS. You cant see over the nose yet she is still flying. The bad part is, to really notice they are on there, you have to get the nose up, and I cant do it on ski's. I could get the plane in the air ALOT quicker if I had more AOA on the wing. I have the tall gear etc, but would like to get that nose even higher. I may take a leaf out of the spring and take my chances that it will give me more AOA and not break. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 As done as any plane will ever be.... cause now the tinkeritis takes over. hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226689#226689 ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:48 PM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 overvoltage Here's a new one for me. I just installed a Monroy 300 traffic alerter in my panel. One of the features of this unit is an indication of voltage. It warns you if your voltage exceeds 14.8 volts. (aural warning as well as indicated voltage) I got that warning today. It indicated a max of 15 volts momentary and varied between about 13.8 and 14.5 depending on the engine speed. The warning on the Monroy was confirmed by my analog voltmeter. After searching through all the manuals I finally came up with a chart in the installation manual that talked about the normal voltage values of the silicone rectifier. I am running too high. It mentioned cleaning the connections,overheat,etc. Has anyone had this problem? Any ideas on how to proceed. I hate to buy a new voltage regulator as they are expensive. There is very little in the books on this and no way to adjust the voltage that I know of. Thanks! Dick Maddux Fox 4-1200 Pensacola,Fl **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:43 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold At 09:59 AM 1/25/2009, you wrote: >has anybody ever figured out how much power is lost or the effect it >has on accurate egt readings by chopping the elbow and muffler? Malcolm, I extended my muffler back to Rotax specs and saw no effect whatsoever, EGT or otherwise. I couldn't fix the elbow because I didn't have room. I'd love to make a custom exhaust, but just don't have the tools to make nice expansions with curves. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:54 PM PST US From: "John W. Hart" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure The URL for AC 43.13-1B is: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular .nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument The URL for AC 43.13-2B is: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular .nsf/0/11E144125D63FE548625740A00731B4A?OpenDocument These are the current AC's with changes. AC 43.13-1B is downloadable by chapter (LARGE AC), and AC 43.13-2B is a single file for the entire AC. John Hart KF IV, NSI Subaru Wilburton, OK -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure The ski info is all in AC 43.13-2A, which seems to be an addition to 43.13-1B combined with change 1. The actual page numbers for the ski installation are pages 33-41. This is according to my copy which is dated 9/8/98. The skis stuff shows "Rev 1977" If you have the actual book, it's way in the back...if you're going online to view it, I have no idea except to look for "-2A". As usual, FAA thinking went into this, and I can't make sense out of their numbering system. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Lynn: > > What page in AC43 did you find the spec for the skis? > > I've been looking and found nothing on installation. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 10:26 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure > > > Tight at sitting on the ground with tailwheel down? That seems like > it would not allow for going over terrain dips, etc. The shock cords > should hold the positive of 0 degrees to 5 degrees. I'm gonna have to > think about your suggestion over coffee this morning, Gary, but if > 43.13 allows up to negative 35, I gotta wonder why. Maybe some > northern resident who lives on skis could answer. > One solution is to always carry a big stick....and don't speak softly > to those %#$@*&_+ skis when/if they do it again! > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 25, 2009, at 2:51 AM, gary.algate@sandvik.com wrote: > >> >> Lynn >> >> when I had my skis I sent the front restraint cable so that it was >> starting to tighten when the plain was in the standard 3 point >> position. >> >> there was no way I could get a negative angle on my skis in flight! >> >> Regards >> >> Gary >> >> Gary Algate >> SMC, Exploration >> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 >> >> >> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the >> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of >> this message by persons or entities other than the intended >> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, >> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the >> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for >> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may >> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. >> "This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we >> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe >> and happy Christmas". >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> 25/01/2009 12:16 PM >> Please respond to >> kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> To >> kitfox-list@matronics.com >> cc >> Subject >> Re: Kitfox-List: Another flying adventure >> >> >> >> >> >> >> AC 43.13 shows -20 to -35 degree angles for main ski incidence, and a >> couple of years ago, when this was a current topic, somebody...a few, >> actually...said that 25 was plenty, so I set mine at that figure. >> This is the first time I've ever had this happen, and it got my >> attention. What caused it I don't know, but I'll be asking advice >> from other ski users locally. 43.13 also specs the down force >> required to slacken the check cable, and for this size ski it is >> 20-40 pounds of force. Maybe I need to set mine a bit higher because >> of my 15" wide fronts, and narrower...6-1/2" wide rears. Because they >> are dissimilar in area, maybe the air got hold of the front area and >> blew it down, and the smaller rear area could not balance it out. I >> never had this happen on the other skis, and I have exactly the same >> cable and shock cord setup....1/8" stainless steel cables and 3/8" >> shock cords. The shock cords have 2" of pre-stretch when they are >> installed at the maximum positive incidence angle of +5 degrees. >> >> >> Lynn Matteson >> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger >> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs >> Sensenich 62x46 >> Electroair direct-fire ignition system >> New skis done and flying >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 24, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: >> >> >>> >>> 25 Degrees down sounds pretty steep to me. What are the other guys >>> using? >>> >>> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rotax 912 overvoltage From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Sun, January 25, 2009 1:30 pm, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > Here's a new one for me. I just installed a Monroy 300 traffic alerter in my > panel. One of the features of this unit is an indication of voltage. It warns > you if your voltage exceeds 14.8 volts. (aural warning as well as indicated > voltage) I got that warning today. It indicated a max of 15 volts momentary and > varied between about 13.8 and 14.5 depending on the engine speed. The warning > on the Monroy was confirmed by my analog voltmeter. After searching through > all the manuals I finally came up with a chart in the installation manual that > talked about the normal voltage values of the silicone rectifier. I am running > too high. It mentioned cleaning the connections,overheat,etc. Has anyone had > this problem? Any ideas on how to proceed. I hate to buy a new voltage > regulator as they are expensive. There is very little in the books on this and no way > to adjust the voltage that I know of. Post this on the Aeroelectric List. Likely Bob Nucholls will respond with the precise answer which could involve the alternator/generator too. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:26 PM PST US From: "Francisco Drovetta" Subject: Kitfox-List: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel Hi! Someone knows which is the distance from DATUM line to "center of wheel" in Kitfox Model IV ?? See jpg attached of Highlander (www.justkitplanes.com) I need the same image of Kitfox IV, to find answer to my question. Can you help me? Tks FD www.dcubj3.com.br ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:12 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel From: "eskflyer" Need one more answer to answer your question . What landing gear are you using ? wide tall gear ?. Narrow gear?. or the spring gear ?. ex718PD New 3579erA John -------- FLY FUN FLY LOW FLY SLOW John Perry Kitfox 2 N718PD 582 cbox 2:62-1 IVO IFA 1220 Full Lotus Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226785#226785 ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:41 PM PST US From: Clint Bazzill Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Enough Why don't you guys Email your pet projects to each other and not on this li st. It seems like a chat room and I spend a lot of time deleting this stuff. Clint > From: vr_baker@nvbell.net> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Ki tfox-List: Enough> Date: Sun=2C 25 Jan 2009 13:17:09 -0800> > --> Kitfox-Li st message posted by: "Vic Baker" > > I second that!> > do not archive> > Vic Baker> S7 912S Warp> Phase 1 flight testing> Carson City=2C Nv> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay & Beverly" > To: > Sent: Sunday=2C Janu ary 25=2C 2009 12:28 PM> Subject: Kitfox-List: Enough> > > > --> Kitfox-Lis t message posted by: "Jay & Beverly" > > > >> > Enough short wing Pipers.> >> > Enough sniping.> >> > PLEASE!> >> > Jay C =============> > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:37 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Fw: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber If I sent this out twice, please forgive. Computer glitch on my end. Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber Hi Max, Four guys from EAA 790 in Barrington IL used the Superflite system back in 1992, 93 & 94 and still are very happy with their polyurethane process. More recently I completed restoring a 1941 Taylorcraft using their complete system. I'll try to include pictures of both my Kitfox and the T-Craft for you to see a final product. If ya have questions you can e-mail me off line. rliebmann@comcast.net Ron N55KF ----- Original Message ----- From: W Duke To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 7:20 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Superflite vs Polyfiber I have a friend about to begin a Dakota Hawk project and he was wondering about Superflite covering. I used Polyfiber. Does anybody have experience with Superflite AND Polyfiber? We would be interested in their comparison. Thanks in advance. Maxwell Duke S6/TD/IO240 Dublin, GA -Matt Dralle, List Admin. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:42 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel At 04:30 PM 1/25/2009, you wrote: >Someone knows which is the distance from DATUM >line to "center of wheel" in Kitfox Model IV ?? > I'll try this again, Francisco, At 03:15 PM 1/17/2009, you wrote: >I=B4d like to know if my spring aluminium (Grove >Type) landing gear is in correct position. >with this configuration, could be dangerous to land? Francisco, Sad to say it does appear that your landing gear are further aft than is typical with Grove gear. However, the only thing that matters are the numbers. My plane has its axle 1.875" (48mm) behind the leading edge when in the measurement configuration, which means the lower door sill / fuselage bottom is horizontal, and the plane is "empty". When in that configuration, 7.3% of the weight is on the tail wheel. (The tail wheel is 163" (4140mm) behind the leading edge.) Also in that configuration my CG is 13.68" (347mm) behind the leading edge. Let us know how that compares to yours. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar. ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Sun, January 25, 2009 4:30 pm, Francisco Drovetta wrote: > Hi! > Someone knows which is the distance from DATUM line to "center of wheel" in Kitfox > Model IV ?? For ease and safety in landing, the gear should be set as far forward as practicable. The limit is usually dictated by the fuselage structure, that is, you can only mount it to the forward limit of the fuselage. But in your case with what looks like a forward mounted and heavy engine, weight and balance might be the limiting factor. If you can supply the moment arms and weights of your existing setup, I can calculate what happens when you move the gear. I would need: moment arm and weight of the main gear moment arm and scale weight of tail wheel moment arm and weight on main gear (empty, no fuel or oil) at tire contact point moment arm for oil in crankcase moment arm for fuel in tanks. moment arm for occupants moment arm for baggage If the existing gear is not going to be used then I need the weight of the proposed gear and location of it's c.g. relative to the fore and aft mounting positions. > > See jpg attached of Highlander (www.justkitplanes.com) > I need the same image of Kitfox IV, to find answer to my question. > > Can you help me? > > Tks > FD > www.dcubj3.com.br > > -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:45 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Kitfox-List: test test do not archive ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: KF IV Distance from DATUM to center of wheel From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Sun, January 25, 2009 4:30 pm, Francisco Drovetta wrote: > Hi! > Someone knows which is the distance from DATUM line to "center of wheel" in Kitfox > Model IV ?? > > See jpg attached of Highlander (www.justkitplanes.com) > I need the same image of Kitfox IV, to find answer to my question. Check out the photo of Bruce Hoisington's Series 7 KF with what appears to be Grove gear. It looks like the gear is mounted about where yours is, slightly behind the datum (leading edge of wing). -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:10 PM PST US From: CDE2fly@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking spark Thanks to everyone offering advice on trouble shooting my ignition concerns. The engine is a new (never run) 912S. An update on the trouble shooting efforts over the weekend are as follows: 1. I purchased an inductive timing light to check spark to each plug. This worked GREAT! Simply power the light by clipping power and ground leads to the battery and clip the inductive pick-up on to each plug wire one at a time, while cranking the engine. If the light strobes, there is voltage to the plug. Really slick way to check for spark without removing plugs. 2. Results of my testing showed that six of the eight plugs are getting voltage. The plugs at the top of cylinders 3 and 4 were not. These plugs are both wired to the same dual ignition coil. 3. Trying to isolate the problem, I swapped ignition unit plugs so that unit "A" was driving circuit "B" and vice-versa. This resulted in no change...still no voltage to the top plugs in cylinders 3 and 4 but this should confirm that the ignition units are functioning properly (i.e., not damaged) 4. When I first installed the engine (going back a year or so), I recall removing one of the magneto pick-ups as I wrestled to get the engine on the ring mount (not necessary as it turns out!). Thinking I may not have reinstalled the pick up correctly, I removed the engine from the airplane to access the pick ups and check the one I removed for proper position (as well as the others) with a feeler gage. The pick-ups were in the correct location. 5. This leads me to suspect that there is either a faulty magneto pick-up or faulty coil. Not sure if the coil was damaged from spinning the engine w/out plugs grounded or not. Since this is my first 912S install, I purchased a video which suggested removing one plug from each cylinder and cranking the engine with the starter to purge air pockets from the oil system prior to first start (which I did). Based on feedback from this forum, this is not advised. If anyone has ideas to trouble shoot the ignition coil, please let me know. Chris Kitfox 7 912S **************Know Your Numbers: Get tips and tools to help you improve your credit score. (http://www.walletpop.com/credit/credit-reports?ncid=emlcntuswall00000002) ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:44 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: leading edge cuffs From: "benburb" I built & have been flying a Kitfox III/912ULS since '95- and never heard of leading edge cuffs. I must have slept through that class. I have always been disappointed that I can fly my Cherokee 180 just as slowly as I can my Kitfox (about 44mph indicated.) Would cuffs make a difference? Are they still available- or at least in plans form? Thanks for any input. Ben -------- Kitfox III/IV. Rotax 912UL. Warp Drive 2 blade. On and off Aerocet amphibs. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226808#226808 ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:38 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Back on the list after 9 years! From: John Bonewitz Hello everyone. I'd like to re-introduce myself to the list. I'm a Series V owner who purchased his kit from SkyStar back in 1996. Four years later I had my first flight in my Lycoming O-235 powered Fox. Almost nine years later, I'm still having a ball, though fuel prices have kept the hours low the last couple of years. Unfortunately, I've kind of lost touch with the "list" since finishing the plane, and have mostly been lurking. This year, I've resolved to fly more (outside my commercial pilot job) and plan some longer trips away from base. I live in the Dallas / Fort Worth area and over the past years have flown a handful of long cross-country trips. I've made two pilgrimages to OSH, two to Telluride Colorado, and one to the Grand Canyon, though it's been awhile since I've made any long trips like this. Hopefully, this will change this year. I'd be interested to hear from any builders who have installed the O-235. I'm powering a Warpdrive 3 blade and the combination has been a joy - smooth and remarkably reliable, though I do miss the short takeoff roll you Rotax guys enjoy. Poor elevator authority in the flare has been the only real complaint I've had. It keeps flap use to one notch, and I always wheel land. I'd like to experiment with a combination of elevator gap seals and VG's to combat this. So any of you flying w/ the O235, please contact me on or off the list. I'd be interested in talking to you. Also, anyone who has used the "Land Shorter" VG's under the horizontal stab, I'd like to hear your opinion. I'm sure a search of the archives will produces some good info as well. I'm glad to be back. Hopefully I can contribute more in the future. Best Regards, John Bonewitz Kitfox Series V ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:30 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox From: "av8rps" Hey Gang, I'm sorry for causing such a stir over my idea of clipping the wings on my Kitfox. Causing arguments between my Kitfox pals was the last thing I intended. I was just looking for some good input. And honestly, I really do appreciate all the comments I received, whether perceived by some as good, or bad. And for those of you that think I am nuts for even thinking of doing this, well... I appreciate your concern. But I'm going to go ahead with my idea. As many of us have said, it is an experiment and no one will know until one of us does it. And since cutting the tips off is only a temporary measure (as long as I make the tips re-installable like I had planned), it shouldn't be a big deal even if it doesn't work out. OK, maybe the first test flight with the short wing could prove interesting, but I really don't think that will be the case. And even if it does, I've been flying Avids and Kitfoxes since the mid 80's, and after accumlating nearly 3,000 hours in them in just about every possible configuration they come in, I haven't found anything scary about one of them yet. In a worse case scenario, the slightly shorter wing will at minimum prove to be educational. (smile) Regarding the discussion about airfoil selection, I found this about the RV lineups airfoils; RV Airfoil info >From the very first iteration the RV-3 has always used the 23012 airfoil. All the two-seat short wing RVs (-4, -6, -7 and -8) use the 23013.5. All the 23000 series airfoils have the same basic shape, the only difference in these airfoils is the thickness. The thickness is given by the last digits. The 23012 airfoil is 12% thick (i.e. the maximum thickness is 12% of the wing chord) while the 23013.5 is 13.5% thick. The 23000 series is extremely widely used, on everything from Taylorcrafts to Cessna Citations, so RVs are in good company. When the -3B wing was introduced in 1998 it retained the 23012 airfoil but featured a new internal structure. The trade-offs that Van made when selecting 13.5% thickness for the RV-4 (and subsequent 2 seat designs except RV-9) versus the 12% from the RV-3 were a fairly sizeable structural benefit (varies as the cube of spar depth) against a small increase in section drag... really a hair-splitter in the speed realm that RV's typically operate. Section drag doesn't start to become a very big deal until you get above roughly 15% thick. I just thought that was interesting in light of our conversations about airfoils and wings. I'll be out in the shop with my Sawzall if anyone is looking for me... Paul -------- Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib Avid Flyer Lake Amphibian Central Wisconsin paul676@tds.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226815#226815 ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:08 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Back on the list after 9 years! Welcome back John! I remember your name from when I first started on the list about 9 years ago! Randy - flying for 4+ years Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive taper tip Do not archive. _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Bonewitz Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 8:46 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Back on the list after 9 years! Hello everyone. I'd like to re-introduce myself to the list. I'm a Series V owner who purchased his kit from SkyStar back in 1996. Four years later I had my first flight in my Lycoming O-235 powered Fox. Almost nine years later, I'm still having a ball, though fuel prices have kept the hours low the last couple of years. Unfortunately, I've kind of lost touch with the "list" since finishing the plane, and have mostly been lurking. This year, I've resolved to fly more (outside my commercial pilot job) and plan some longer trips away from base. I live in the Dallas / Fort Worth area and over the past years have flown a handful of long cross-country trips. I've made two pilgrimages to OSH, two to Telluride Colorado, and one to the Grand Canyon, though it's been awhile since I've made any long trips like this. Hopefully, this will change this year. I'd be interested to hear from any builders who have installed the O-235. I'm powering a Warpdrive 3 blade and the combination has been a joy - smooth and remarkably reliable, though I do miss the short takeoff roll you Rotax guys enjoy. Poor elevator authority in the flare has been the only real complaint I've had. It keeps flap use to one notch, and I always wheel land. I'd like to experiment with a combination of elevator gap seals and VG's to combat this. So any of you flying w/ the O235, please contact me on or off the list. I'd be interested in talking to you. Also, anyone who has used the "Land Shorter" VG's under the horizontal stab, I'd like to hear your opinion. I'm sure a search of the archives will produces some good info as well. I'm glad to be back. Hopefully I can contribute more in the future. Best Regards, John Bonewitz Kitfox Series V ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:31 PM PST US From: Marco Menezes Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold I like it fine Pat. Makes a big difference at idle, alot less shaking. The thought of an engine-out situation and resulting free-wheeling prop freaks me out a bit, but that topic has been beaten to death here. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sun, 1/25/09, patrick reilly wrote: From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold #yiv377796825 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv377796825 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Marco, Thanks for info. How do you like that clutch? do not archive Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL From: msm_9949@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold My grayhead's exhaust is mounted same as yours, Pat. It all fits and it wor ks like it's supposed to. - Marco Menezes N99KX Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch --- On Sat, 1/10/09, Pat Reilly wrote: From: Pat Reilly Subject: Kitfox-List: Exhaust Manifold Kitfoxers. Looking at a closeup of a Bluehead -582 engine installation Bi ll Chenoweths), I see the exhaust manifold is installed angled down with th e EGT sensor mounts on the bottom. I swear when I received my used engine t he manifold was mounted angled up with the EGT probe mounts up. I have rein stalled the engine and mounted the pipe and muffler. Fits fine with probe m ounts up. And looking at it, I believe if I flipped the manifold over the p ipe/muffler would be too low to bolt up. What gives? Were some engines inst alled with exhaust manifold up and others down? I sure hate to remove mine with all the springs saftey wired already, flip it over and find I am right and the pipe won't bolt up. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox From: gary.algate@sandvik.com hey Paul Keep us updated - I still have my old skill saw and if you get really good results I might have to consider clipping my clipped wing - hmm make it easy to get in the hanger too regards Gary Gary Algate SMC, Exploration Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. ?This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas". "av8rps" Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com 26/01/2009 03:53 PM Please respond to kitfox-list@matronics.com To kitfox-list@matronics.com cc Subject Kitfox-List: Re: 26 foot Clipped Wing Kitfox Hey Gang, I'm sorry for causing such a stir over my idea of clipping the wings on my Kitfox. Causing arguments between my Kitfox pals was the last thing I intended. I was just looking for some good input. And honestly, I really do appreciate all the comments I received, whether perceived by some as good, or bad. And for those of you that think I am nuts for even thinking of doing this, well... I appreciate your concern. But I'm going to go ahead with my idea. As many of us have said, it is an experiment and no one will know until one of us does it. And since cutting the tips off is only a temporary measure (as long as I make the tips re-installable like I had planned), it shouldn't be a big deal even if it doesn't work out. OK, maybe the first test flight with the short wing could prove interesting, but I really don't think that will be the case. And even if it does, I've been flying Avids and Kitfoxes since the mid 80's, and after accumlating nearly 3,000 hours in them in just about every possible configuration they come in, I haven't found anything scary about one of them yet. In a worse case scenario, the slightly shorter wing will at minimum prove to be educational. (smile) Regarding the discussion about airfoil selection, I found this about the RV lineups airfoils; RV Airfoil info >From the very first iteration the RV-3 has always used the 23012 airfoil. All the two-seat short wing RVs (-4, -6, -7 and -8) use the 23013.5. All the 23000 series airfoils have the same basic shape, the only difference in these airfoils is the thickness. The thickness is given by the last digits. The 23012 airfoil is 12% thick (i.e. the maximum thickness is 12% of the wing chord) while the 23013.5 is 13.5% thick. The 23000 series is extremely widely used, on everything from Taylorcrafts to Cessna Citations, so RVs are in good company. When the -3B wing was introduced in 1998 it retained the 23012 airfoil but featured a new internal structure. The trade-offs that Van made when selecting 13.5% thickness for the RV-4 (and subsequent 2 seat designs except RV-9) versus the 12% from the RV-3 were a fairly sizeable structural benefit (varies as the cube of spar depth) against a small increase in section drag... really a hair-splitter in the speed realm that RV's typic! ally operate. Section drag doesn't start to become a very big deal until you get above roughly 15% thick. I just thought that was interesting in light of our conversations about airfoils and wings. I'll be out in the shop with my Sawzall if anyone is looking for me... Paul -------- Model IV-1200 912ul Amphib Avid Flyer Lake Amphibian Central Wisconsin paul676@tds.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226815#226815 =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-======================= =========== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-======================= =========== ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:01 PM PST US From: "lkc@juno.com" Subject: Kitfox-List: Layne from Alaska Is this the Andrew that came up to Alaska a couple yrs ago and stayed wi th us? If so, how are you doing? Do you want to come up again? Give a reply , Layne ____________________________________________________________ Live the good life! 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