---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/29/09: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:59 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Expose (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring (Lynn Matteson) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: Re: checking sparkchecking spark (Lynn Matteson) 4. 07:33 AM - Re: checking sparkchecking spark (Roger Lee) 5. 07:48 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (n85ae) 6. 08:45 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (dcsfoto) 7. 08:53 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (Noel Loveys) 8. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: checking sparkchecking spark (Noel Loveys) 9. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring (Noel Loveys) 10. 10:16 AM - Re: Re: checking sparkchecking spark (Noel Loveys) 11. 10:27 AM - Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring (akflyer) 12. 10:35 AM - Getting a replacement airworthiness (akflyer) 13. 10:50 AM - Re: Home of Kitfox (JetPilot) 14. 10:54 AM - Re: Getting a replacement airworthiness (JetPilot) 15. 11:17 AM - Re: VG's (JetPilot) 16. 11:18 AM - Re: X-Plane test (Michel Verheughe) 17. 11:42 AM - Re: Panel Wiring (Lynn Matteson) 18. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring (Lynn Matteson) 19. 12:59 PM - Re: Panel Wiring (patrick reilly) 20. 12:59 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Expose (patrick reilly) 21. 01:10 PM - Re: Re: X-Plane test (Lynn Matteson) 22. 01:26 PM - Re: Getting a replacement airworthiness (Bob Brennan) 23. 01:51 PM - Re: X-Plane test (JetPilot) 24. 05:04 PM - Re: Panel Wiring (Lowell Fitt) 25. 05:50 PM - Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (Eggstaf@aol.com) 26. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (Cudnohufsky's) 27. 07:08 PM - Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz) 28. 07:26 PM - Re: Panel Wiring (Andy Fultz) 29. 08:01 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Weiss Richard) 30. 08:07 PM - Re: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (John Bonewitz) 31. 09:25 PM - Re: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! (Randy Daughenbaugh) 32. 09:46 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (John Bonewitz) 33. 11:44 PM - Re: Re: X-Plane test (JC Propeller Design) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:40 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose Pat, Some of the members listed a website for plastic Avid/Kitfox wing tanks a while back. I know nothing about them but here it is :_wingtanks.com_ (wingtanks.com) . I would be interested to hear of some results using these tanks. Apparently you cut the tops out of your present wing tanks and install the plastic tanks. The fuel quantity is somewhat reduced but for me, no big deal as the fuel range on my aircraft far exceeds my bladder capacity. Besides it doesn't take too much time before I am ready to land at an airport to "airport bum" steal the aviation magazines and eat doughnuts. Dick Maddux Fox 4-1200 Pensacola,Fl **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:14 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring "Make out any snowmobile tracks"? It's hard to make out an area where there ARE no snowmobile tracks on this lake. In hindsight, it would have been better to land where those tracks were, as it was all packed down already, and no slush marks. I chose to land in fresh snow...that is, unmarked by s'mobiles, and that's where I found the slush and the frozen ridges covered by snow. As an aside, I went with my CFI to give a guy a lesson in flying skis (ironic, because I never got a lesson from him before I just flew on my own after I built mine two years a go). They were using a Cub with Federal 1500A skis. Brian (CFI) took him out and they flew the pattern a few times, then headed for a nearby lake, where they dragged the lake, looked at the tracks, and landed anyway. He wanted to show him the worst case scenario. They did fine, came back and Brian turned it over to him. This guy...the student....is multi- rated, instrument, but had never flown skis...he was loving it. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > If you can make out any snowmobile tracks on the ice that should > tell you if > there is any slush around...Failing that gun-shy seems good. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:13 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring > > > I got a bit gun-shy with my recent lake landing and the resultant > slush on one wing and one clogged fuel tank vent....got any grass > runways nearby? > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > do not archive > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 11:59 AM, steve shinabery wrote: > >> >> >> Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, January 28, 2009 6:50 am, steve shinabery wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Clint what a great video..I think every one likes it..would love >>>> to see >>>> more of this type of video clips here.. >>>> >>> >>> I sure do! Especially with great audio track like that one. >>> >>> >>>> we have 12"of the >>>> new white stuff .and it is still snowing. >>>> my Kitfox N554KF is still >>>> sitting in the hanger.untill spring. >>>> >>> >>> Why? No skis? Maybe you should get on the Lynn program. :)) >>> >>> >>>> I was out there last night.checking >>>> on her..and dreaming of spring..when I can get her back out again.. >>>> >>> >>> Seems terrible to have to wait months. Hangar doors blocked with >>> snow? >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> >> May B some day...I too will have a set of ski's for N554KF,,I will >> have to get Lynn to build me a pair like his..I do have Tundra >> Tires on her though..to much snow on the run way here at Lake Field >> Airport,Celina Ohio {CQA}look for Grand Lake St.Marys Oh..and you >> found me..I hope Lynn can fly down and land out on the lake...Steve >> Shinabery N554KF KF2 582 >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:42 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark I agree with the dropped plug scenario. My CFI (and A&P/IA) says he blasts plugs with glass beads over at the local engine rebuild facility. I wonder where the "bomb" description for the plug tester came from? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:51 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > I think that is primarily for the coated plugs. Iridium or > platimum. The > real; problem with sand blasting regular plugs is the possibility of > cracking the ceramic insulator. That's why the pressure tester (bomb) > > When I was in school we were told if we dropped a plug the best > thing to do > was to pick it up and drop it again. Never use a dropped plug. > One of my > instructors got fired one tome for refusing to install a main pin, > in the > rotor of a Super Puma, that had fallen ten feet or so to a cement > floor. He > was fired for not installing the pin under orders but the chief > wouldn't > take responsibility for that pin either so it was replaced. > > I just thought of something... I wonder if this thread has been > flagged with > all the talk of bomb. ;-) > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:06 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark > > > Only problem is they don't recommend sand blasting spark plugs > anymore...at least for aircraft...at least I THINK I read that > someplace. Can someone verify? > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 7:04 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > >> Lynn, >> You can buy the Champion spark plug tester from ATS and also >> Spruce I believe. They still make them. Two of the guys on my field >> have them. One of the guys bought his at Sun and Fun. They sell for >> around $550. It does the blast cleaning and the 'bomb" testing just >> like you remember. >> Dick >> Maddux >> >> Pensacola,Fl >> >> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up- >> to-date with the latest news. _- >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:13 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark From: "Roger Lee" Plugs are too cheap. You should just toss them. I have also had a bad plug out of the box on my plane. Why bother to try and save one plug? On a Rotax just toss the plugs at 50 hours when using 91 octane. Plugs and oil are like helicopter parts. When they hit a time limit they're gone. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227496#227496 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:14 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Panel Wiring From: "n85ae" Aircraft wire, frequently called tefzel ( teflon insulated). Won't catch fire if it shorts or gets oveloaded (it will still smoke though) and is much more abrasion resistant. Regards, Jeff Hays Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227498#227498 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:51 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Panel Wiring From: "dcsfoto" you can get mil spec wire from Superior Panel in colors David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227505#227505 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:02 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Aircraft wire is designed to be light, pretty fire proof and best of all made to go into airplanes. That pretty much says it all. Crimp all connections, solder should be reserved for work inside the devices not outside. Preferably beg, borrow, buy or steal a crimper from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent results and are nothing like the ones available at electronics shops. Finally number your wires and make a block diagram of your wiring. If you ever have a problem you have something to study and even show others for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram may be worth its weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your devices and number them 1, 2, 3... Then the wire from your fuse to the switch of device 1 would be marked 1-a. . From the switch to the device 1-b and so on. Or you can mark the wires with a couple of markers using the binary number system. (red=1,Bk=0) Starting with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire with just four dots just always number from the source of current. You may also number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out the number. Failing that you may find someone with a wire numbering machine... now that would be nice. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:18 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Tore the wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that hard to rewire. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple of standard wires in the ignition system, but was planning on using aircraft wire to rewire the panel. What are your thoughts on standard wire vs aircraft wire? Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL _____ From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Marwynne: You're being a bit hard on Patrick aren't you... NOT! One thing no one in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind of fire. And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one. I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Patrick, To answer your question why someone did something is hard to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the fuse or breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have worked in the electrical field for more than 35 years and is very common for people to misunderstand there function. I am glad to see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are flying.... Marwynne Kuhn Hilltop Lakes 0TE4 ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years ago when I studied aircraft wiring. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse, and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then a fuse, except in a battery shut off switch. Pat Reilly Mod 3 582 Rebuild Rockford, IL > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330 > > > I'll answer your question with a question > > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real possibility. > > + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device) > (-) > > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Gibbs > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:53 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > Pat sez: > > >Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does not > >answer my question. > > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > > > > > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire > >connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the > >fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is not > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. > > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted" > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a > short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit, > which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the > device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow through > the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus > opening the circuit and stopping the current flow. > > >What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? > > The device would be on, nothing more. > > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there was > >a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that > >circuit. > > No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents current flow. > It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to the point > of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of electricity. > > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. > > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it. > > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at > >one of the switches. > > The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't turn > it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not > shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow. > > Mike G. > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster > Phoenix, AZ > > > > >===================== >=========== > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:05 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark The one I saw at the college had a rounded pressure chamber much like the old cartoon bombs. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark I agree with the dropped plug scenario. My CFI (and A&P/IA) says he blasts plugs with glass beads over at the local engine rebuild facility. I wonder where the "bomb" description for the plug tester came from? Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:51 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > I think that is primarily for the coated plugs. Iridium or > platimum. The > real; problem with sand blasting regular plugs is the possibility of > cracking the ceramic insulator. That's why the pressure tester (bomb) > > When I was in school we were told if we dropped a plug the best > thing to do > was to pick it up and drop it again. Never use a dropped plug. > One of my > instructors got fired one tome for refusing to install a main pin, > in the > rotor of a Super Puma, that had fallen ten feet or so to a cement > floor. He > was fired for not installing the pin under orders but the chief > wouldn't > take responsibility for that pin either so it was replaced. > > I just thought of something... I wonder if this thread has been > flagged with > all the talk of bomb. ;-) > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:06 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark > > > Only problem is they don't recommend sand blasting spark plugs > anymore...at least for aircraft...at least I THINK I read that > someplace. Can someone verify? > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 7:04 AM, Catz631@aol.com wrote: > >> Lynn, >> You can buy the Champion spark plug tester from ATS and also >> Spruce I believe. They still make them. Two of the guys on my field >> have them. One of the guys bought his at Sun and Fun. They sell for >> around $550. It does the blast cleaning and the 'bomb" testing just >> like you remember. >> Dick >> Maddux >> >> Pensacola,Fl >> >> From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up- >> to-date with the latest news. _- >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:31 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring The reason the snowmobilers didn't go to that part of the lake is they probably knew about the slush. Follow9ing tracks is good as you can see the yes mans in the snow and any drifts show up on the tracks too. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring "Make out any snowmobile tracks"? It's hard to make out an area where there ARE no snowmobile tracks on this lake. In hindsight, it would have been better to land where those tracks were, as it was all packed down already, and no slush marks. I chose to land in fresh snow...that is, unmarked by s'mobiles, and that's where I found the slush and the frozen ridges covered by snow. As an aside, I went with my CFI to give a guy a lesson in flying skis (ironic, because I never got a lesson from him before I just flew on my own after I built mine two years a go). They were using a Cub with Federal 1500A skis. Brian (CFI) took him out and they flew the pattern a few times, then headed for a nearby lake, where they dragged the lake, looked at the tracks, and landed anyway. He wanted to show him the worst case scenario. They did fine, came back and Brian turned it over to him. This guy...the student....is multi- rated, instrument, but had never flown skis...he was loving it. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:44 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > If you can make out any snowmobile tracks on the ice that should > tell you if > there is any slush around...Failing that gun-shy seems good. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 4:13 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring > > > I got a bit gun-shy with my recent lake landing and the resultant > slush on one wing and one clogged fuel tank vent....got any grass > runways nearby? > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > do not archive > > > On Jan 28, 2009, at 11:59 AM, steve shinabery wrote: > >> >> >> Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, January 28, 2009 6:50 am, steve shinabery wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Clint what a great video..I think every one likes it..would love >>>> to see >>>> more of this type of video clips here.. >>>> >>> >>> I sure do! Especially with great audio track like that one. >>> >>> >>>> we have 12"of the >>>> new white stuff .and it is still snowing. >>>> my Kitfox N554KF is still >>>> sitting in the hanger.untill spring. >>>> >>> >>> Why? No skis? Maybe you should get on the Lynn program. :)) >>> >>> >>>> I was out there last night.checking >>>> on her..and dreaming of spring..when I can get her back out again.. >>>> >>> >>> Seems terrible to have to wait months. Hangar doors blocked with >>> snow? >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> --- >>> >>> >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> >> May B some day...I too will have a set of ski's for N554KF,,I will >> have to get Lynn to build me a pair like his..I do have Tundra >> Tires on her though..to much snow on the run way here at Lake Field >> Airport,Celina Ohio {CQA}look for Grand Lake St.Marys Oh..and you >> found me..I hope Lynn can fly down and land out on the lake...Steve >> Shinabery N554KF KF2 582 >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:47 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark I think the plugs talked about here are the $50 plus aviation monsters. You really don't want to toss them until they are totally used. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:50 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: checking sparkchecking spark Plugs are too cheap. You should just toss them. I have also had a bad plug out of the box on my plane. Why bother to try and save one plug? On a Rotax just toss the plugs at 50 hours when using 91 octane. Plugs and oil are like helicopter parts. When they hit a time limit they're gone. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227496#227496 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:18 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring From: "akflyer" Lynn, You may take a look at the mud flaps that they have for Cessna's. It would be very easy to add to your set up and it would probably help keep the slush off the wings and tail. In certain light conditions, even if you drag the lake then go around and look at your tracks, it is very difficult to see the water... the smart thing to do would be to not land if you cant see, but hey, we're (I) all not that smart and I have gone ahead and landed anyway. Makes for some interesting situations when you land where you cant see. -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227528#227528 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:36 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Getting a replacement airworthiness From: "akflyer" Hey guys, As you know I rebuilt a wrecked avid. I only had a copy of the airworthiness and not the original. The AI buddy that looked the plane over wont sign it off till I get an "original". This has been going on since November. Normally he said it was no big deal as he has gone through this before, he just filled out a form, faxed it in and magically the new airworthiness appears in the mail in a few weeks... This time, they (FAA FSDO) have lost the fax 3 times. The FSDO has now decided that they need to send an inspector down to look it over before issuing a new one. Fine, come on down and look. Well they have canceled twice now (today being the second time). I told them I was not going to be held hostage and was going to continue to fly the plane anyway.... Have any of you guys been through this with the FAA just trying to get a replacement AW cert? -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227533#227533 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:01 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Home of Kitfox From: "JetPilot" That was a great video Clint !!! It was great to see the plane from both the ground and in the air, very few videos have both in them. I will try to incorporate this into my future videos. I wish we had more members making and posting videos. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227539#227539 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:40 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Getting a replacement airworthiness From: "JetPilot" Leonard, What was the damage to the Avid that your rebuilt ? Would you say rebuilding a wrecked plane took longer / was harder than building a new plane ? Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227540#227540 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: VG's From: "JetPilot" [quote="akflyer"] Dick Maddux wrote: > > > I used the pattern supplied by Land Shorter. The VG's are 3" apart at 5.1" back from the leading edge. They should be ~10% of the wingspan apart, and 1% of the cord, including flaperons. > > I think Dick got the spacing of his VG's way to far apart, which would result in far less than the optimum number of VG's. This would explain Dicks OK, but not good results from adding VG's to his airplane. Leonard got the spacing about right according to the instructions from www.landshorter.com If you don't put enough VG's on, you wont get the full benefit, which is why I always say, exact placement of VG's is CRITICAL to getting the full benefit of VG"s. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227541#227541 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:32 AM PST US From: Michel Verheughe Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: X-Plane test Lynn, I tried to make skis with X-Plane and it looks good but as long as snow is not modelled in the simulator, it is only an eye-candy and of no other value. > From: av8rps [paul676@tds.net] > with the exception of the flimsy handling characteristics. I would have thought the > higher wing loading would actually make it feel stabler. My wrong wording, Paul. What I meant to say was: more agile. But because unusual for me, it felt more unpredictable. > I'm curious, does X-plane accurately simulate your jabiru powered Model 3 for > performance specs? No, it doesn't. The simulator has plenty of parameters you can define yourself and I have been doing that for more than one year, flying my plane and modelling, until I was more or less pleased with the similarity. I met Austin Meyer, the creator of X-Plane, at two occasions; once in Italy and once in Germany (he is American but comes sometimes here to meet with some of us). We have the same vision for the simulator: to make it an excellent experiemental tool (hence the X in the name). But to make a living he must sell. And the competitor is MS FS that has a lot of eye-candy. He then uses much time to create nice effects available via languages like OpenGL and aimed at video games. The truth is that perhaps one third of the users are interested in the actual modelling, one third only fly airliners online, flying perfect SID and STAR with real-time ATC, and one third is just fooling around, flying a 747 inverted a few feet over the ground. I have proposed to have, in addition to the PlaneMaker and AirfoilMaker tools something called PropulsionMaker that would take all the parameters from an engine and distribute standard engine models like it already exists for the NACA airfoils. But it is not easy. For example if you use a propeller with e.g. Clark-Y airfoil, you get a perfect propeller based on NACA data. But in reality, no propeller is perfect. So, you must decrease slightly the lift of the elements making the propeller in order to meet the real-life performance. With that in mind, I am not sure I should try to model the Speedster. I wouldn't like to see people making a wrong decision on what is, after all, done with the best intention but not accurate data. Cheers, Michel Verheughe Norway Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200 do not archive
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:19 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring I just found the number markers that I used to use in model planes. We used them in the wind tunnel at Chrysler to number thermocouples and leads. (Apparently some of these found their way into my toolbox when I left there) They are/were made by the W. H. Brady Co., Milwaukee, Toronto, London, Brussels. They probably have an internet site, but I'm going by the printing on the "cards" themselves...and these are OLD. Each "card" contains 36 strips of a particular number. Each strip repeats the number 6 times, so you can wrap a strip around a wire and see what number it is from completely around the wire. They are adhesive-backed, and you just peel the strip off the card and apply. You could apply a strip to the wire in question, on either side of the firewall for example, and at each end of the wire, or when the wire disappears behind something for easy tracing. I just wish I had found them when I was wiring my plane. I made up hand- written notes on pieces of white tape and applied to the wire...time- consuming. The ones I have are numbered 1 through 20, but I recall having 120 thermocouples on a car, so the numbers go up that high. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 29, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Aircraft wire is designed to be light, pretty fire proof and best > of all made to go into airplanes. That pretty much says it all. > > > Crimp all connections, solder should be reserved for work inside > the devices not outside. Preferably beg, borrow, buy or steal a > crimper from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent > results and are nothing like the ones available at electronics shops. > > > Finally number your wires and make a block diagram of your wiring. > If you ever have a problem you have something to study and even > show others for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram > may be worth its weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your > devices and number them 1, 2, 3... Then the wire from your fuse to > the switch of device 1 would be marked 1-a. . From the switch to > the device 1-b and so on. Or you can mark the wires with a couple > of markers using the binary number system. (red=1,Bk=0) Starting > with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire with just four > dots just always number from the source of current. You may also > number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out the > number. > > > Failing that you may find someone with a wire numbering machine... > now that would be nice. > > > Noel > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:18 PM > To: kitfox matronics > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > Tore the wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that > hard to rewire. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple > of standard wires in the ignition system, but was planning on using > aircraft wire to rewire the panel. What are your thoughts on > standard wire vs aircraft wire? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:24:44 -0330 > > Marwynne: > > > Youre being a bit hard on Patrick arent you... NOT! One thing no > one in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind > of fire. And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one. > > > I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer. > > > Noel > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > Patrick, > > > To answer your question why someone did something is hard > to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the > fuse or breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or > fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have > worked in the electrical field for more than 35 years and is very > common for people to misunderstand there function. I am glad to > see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a > safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are > flying.... > > > Marwynne Kuhn > > Hilltop Lakes 0TE4 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Noel Loveys > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years > ago when I studied aircraft wiring. > > > Noel > > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM > To: kitfox matronics > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will > not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is > not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. > Not an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the > fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the > switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through > the fuse, and then to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the > Hell can a guy that did such high quality work on the rest of the > plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never > seen power to a switch and then a fuse, except in a battery shut > off switch. > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330 > > > > > > > I'll answer your question with a question > > > > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real > possibility. > > > > + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device) > > | > > (-) > > > > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short. > > > > Noel > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Michael Gibbs > > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:53 AM > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > > > > > > Pat sez: > > > > >Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does > not > > >answer my question. > > > > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) > > > > > > > > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire > > >connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the > > >fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is > not > > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. > > > > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted" > > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow > > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a > > short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit, > > which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the > > device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow > through > > the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus > > opening the circuit and stopping the current flow. > > > > >What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? > > > > The device would be on, nothing more. > > > > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there > was > > >a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that > > >circuit. > > > > No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents current flow. > > It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to the point > > of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of electricity. > > > > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. > > > > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it. > > > > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at > > >one of the switches. > > > > The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't > turn > > it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you > > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not > > shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow. > > > > Mike G. > > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster > > Phoenix, AZ > > > > > > > > > >===================== > >=========== > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/ > Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp:// > www.matronics.com/contribution > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox- > Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > ============================================================ _- > ============================================================ _- > contribution_- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:34 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox in hangar until spring That was the other strike that was against me when I tried to head out for Oshkosh last Friday....flat lighting conditions, overcast...absolutely no discerning where the previous tracks were on my runway. Somebody was telling me something. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 29, 2009, at 1:12 PM, akflyer wrote: > > Lynn, > > You may take a look at the mud flaps that they have for Cessna's. > It would be very easy to add to your set up and it would probably > help keep the slush off the wings and tail. > > In certain light conditions, even if you drag the lake then go > around and look at your tracks, it is very difficult to see the > water... the smart thing to do would be to not land if you cant > see, but hey, we're (I) all not that smart and I have gone ahead > and landed anyway. Makes for some interesting situations when you > land where you cant see. > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > Leonard Perry > Soldotna AK > Avid "C" / Mk IV > 582 IVO IFA > Full Lotus 1260 > #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 > > hander outer of humorless darwin awards > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227528#227528 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:13 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring Lynn=2C Wait a minute=2C 120 thermocouples on A car? Come on!Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-Li st: Panel Wiring> Date: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2009 14:27:23 -0500> To: kitfox-list@ @jps.net>> > I just found the number markers that I used to use in model pl anes. > We used them in the wind tunnel at Chrysler to number thermocouples > and leads. (Apparently some of these found their way into my toolbox > w hen I left there) They are/were made by the W. H. Brady Co.=2C > Milwaukee =2C Toronto=2C London=2C Brussels. They probably have an internet > site=2C but I'm going by the printing on the "cards" themselves...and > these are OLD. Each "card" contains 36 strips of a particular number. > Each strip re peats the number 6 times=2C so you can wrap a strip around > a wire and see what number it is from completely around the wire. > They are adhesive-bac ked=2C and you just peel the strip off the card > and apply. You could appl y a strip to the wire in question=2C on either > side of the firewall for e xample=2C and at each end of the wire=2C or > when the wire disappears behi nd something for easy tracing. I just > wish I had found them when I was wi ring my plane. I made up hand- > written notes on pieces of white tape and applied to the wire...time- > consuming. The ones I have are numbered 1 thr ough 20=2C but I recall > having 120 thermocouples on a car=2C so the numbe rs go up that high.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> J abiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 600.2 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire i gnition system> New skis done and flying> > > > > On Jan 29=2C 2009=2C at 1 1:39 AM=2C Noel Loveys wrote:> > > Aircraft wire is designed to be light=2C pretty fire proof and best > > of all made to go into airplanes. That pret ty much says it all.> >> >> >> > Crimp all connections=2C solder should be reserved for work inside > > the devices not outside. Preferably beg=2C bor row=2C buy or steal a > > crimper from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent > > results and are nothing like the ones available at elec tronics shops.> >> >> >> > Finally number your wires and make a block diagr am of your wiring. > > If you ever have a problem you have something to stu dy and even > > show others for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram > > may be worth its weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your > > devices and number them 1=2C 2=2C 3... Then the wire from your fuse to > > the switch of device 1 would be marked 1-a. . From the switch to > > the d evice 1-b and so on. Or you can mark the wires with a couple > > of markers using the binary number system. (red=1=2CBk=0) Starting > > with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire with just four > > dots just always n umber from the source of current. You may also > > number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out the > > number.> >> >> >> > Failing t hat you may find someone with a wire numbering machine... > > now that woul d be nice.> >> >> >> > Noel> >> >> >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matr onics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly> > Sent: Wednesday=2C January 28=2C 2009 9:18 PM> > To: kit fox matronics> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring> >> >> >> > Tore th e wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that > > hard to rewir e. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple > > of standard wires in the ignition system=2C but was planning on using > > aircraft wire to re wire the panel. What are your thoughts on > > standard wire vs aircraft wir e?> >> > Pat Reilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> >> >> >> >> > F rom: noelloveys@yahoo.ca> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RE: K itfox-List: Panel Wiring> > Date: Wed=2C 28 Jan 2009 11:24:44 -0330> >> > M arwynne:> >> >> >> > You=92re being a bit hard on Patrick aren=92t you... N OT! One thing no > > one in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind > > of fire. And the positioning of the fuses was just asking f or one.> >> >> >> > I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer.> >> >> >> > Noel> >> >> >> >> >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn> > Sent: Tuesday=2C January 27=2C 2009 11:37 PM> > To: kitfox-list@ma tronics.com> > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring> >> >> >> > Patrick =2C> >> >> >> > To answer your question why someone did something is hard > > to answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the > > fuse or breaker is there to protect radio=2C etc. The breaker or > > fuse is in there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have > > worked in the ele ctrical field for more than 35 years and is very > > common for people to m isunderstand there function. I am glad to > > see you are going to correct the problem . This will make it a > > safer plane for you to fly. You don't want a fire while you are > > flying....> >> >> >> > Marwynne Kuhn> >> > H illtop Lakes 0TE4> >> > ----- Original Message -----> >> > From: Noel Lovey s> >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> >> > Sent: Tuesday=2C January 27=2C 2009 6:12 PM> >> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring> >> >> >> > The a nswer to your question is no one told him... I was told years > > ago when I studied aircraft wiring.> >> >> >> > Noel> >> >> >> > From: owner-kitfox- list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- > > list-server@matronics.c om] On Behalf Of patrick reilly> > Sent: Tuesday=2C January 27=2C 2009 3:31 PM> > To: kitfox matronics> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring> >> > > >> > Noel & Maryanne=2C That is my question! I know that the device will > > not shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And=2C that is > > not a "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. > > N ot an electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the > > fuse was located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the > > switch/fuse system out and run the electricty from source through > > the fuse=2C and t hen to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the > > Hell can a guy that di d such high quality work on the rest of the > > plane be that uninformed on the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never > > seen power to a switch and the n a fuse=2C except in a battery shut > > off switch.> >> > Pat Reilly> > Mo d 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> >> >> >> >> > > From: noelloveys@yahoo.c a> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel W iring> > > Date: Tue=2C 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330> > >> > > --> Kitfox-Lis t message posted by: "Noel Loveys" > > > > >> > > I'll answer your question with a question> > >> > > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground=2C a real > > possibility.> > >> > > + ------(Switch ) -------(fuse)----(Device)> > > |> > > (-)> > >> > > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short.> > >> > > Noel> > >> > > -----Original Me ssage-----> > > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com> > > [mailto:o wner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > Michael Gibbs> > > Sent: Tuesday=2C January 27=2C 2009 1:53 AM> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics. com> > > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring> > >> > > --> Kitfox-List m essage posted by: Michael Gibbs > > > > >> > > Pat se z:> > >> > > >Mike and Noel=2C OK=2C I got what you are telling me. But=2C that does > > not> > > >answer my question.> > > >> > > >+-----(Switch)---- -(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)> > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)--- -(-)> > > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-)> > > >> > > >> > > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire> > > > connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the> > > >fuse . Mike=2C by your definition=2C shorting of the switch=2C which is > > not> > > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse.> > >> > > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted "> > > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow> > > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a> > > sh ort. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit=2C> > > wh ich you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the> > > devic e (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow > > through> > > t he wire=2C and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing=2C thus> > > op ening the circuit and stopping the current flow.> > >> > > >What would happ en if there was a dead short at a switch?> > >> > > The device would be on =2C nothing more.> > >> > > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before th e switch and there > > was> > > >a dead short at the switch=2C you would on ly lose power to that> > > >circuit.> > >> > > No. Opening a circuit anywhe re in the circuit prevents current flow.> > > It's not like a water leak wh ich could continue to flow to the point> > > of the leak. Any break in a ci rcuit stops the flow of electricity.> > >> > > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse.> > >> > > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it.> > >> > > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if ther e was a dead short at> > > >one of the switches.> > >> > > The device contr olled by the switch would be on and you couldn't > > turn> > > it off=2C th at's all. But the same would be true even if you> > > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not> > > shorted=2C the fuse should n't blow.> > >> > > Mike G.> > > N728KF=2C Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster> > > Ph oenix=2C AZ> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >============= =========> > >============> > >> > >> > >> >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// > > fo rums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > > href="http:// www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// > > www.matronhref="http ://forums.matronics.com">http:// > > forums.matronics.comhref="http://www .matronics.com/ > > contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.mat ronics.com/ > > Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp:// > > www.matronics.com/contribution> > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitf ox- > > Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution http:// > > www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// > > forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matr onics.com/contribution> > ================ =================== _- > > === ======= _- > > contribution_- > > ========= ==================> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:23 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fuel Tank Expose Dick=2C Thanks for the tank info. All I know is=2C I will never waste time trying to reclaim a gas tank=2C car=2C motorcycle or plane=2C again. I spen t 2 years thinking I had a vapor lock problem because the Kreem pieces were too large to pass through lines to the filiters I was checking. All I had to do was sit by the road till I could start up again. I sure as hell don't want to have to find a safe place to land first. do not archive Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Thu=2C 29 Jan 2009 08:46:25 -0500Subject: Re: Ki tfox-List: Fuel Tank ExposeTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com Pat=2C Some of the members listed a website for plastic Avid/Kitfox wing tanks a while back. I know nothing about them but here it is :wingtanks.com. I woul d be interested to hear of some results using these tanks. Apparently you c ut the tops out of your present wing tanks and install the plastic tanks. T he fuel quantity is somewhat reduced but for me=2C no big deal as the fuel range on my aircraft far exceeds my bladder capacity. Besides it doesn't ta ke too much time before I am ready to land at an airport to "airport bum" s teal the aviation magazines and eat doughnuts. Dick Maddux Fox 4-1200 Pensacola=2CFl >From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between=2C stay up-to-dat e with the latest news. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:46 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: X-Plane test Thanks for the attempt, Michel. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Jan 29, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote: > Lynn, I tried to make skis with X-Plane and it looks good but as > long as snow is not modelled in the simulator, it is only an eye- > candy and of no other value. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:57 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Getting a replacement airworthiness It took six months to get a registration number for my imported UK Kitfox, with minor obstacles; four months to get an AW Certificate with FAA-imposed obstacles but it was expedited by a DAR who got $900 for his trouble; and I just got my Repairman's Certificate after three months "processing" with absolutely no obstacles at all. Even the FSDO said "expect to have to call and ask when it will be done months from now". Understaffed, underfunded, self-imposed problems, who knows - but the FAA is definitely something you can't take for granted anymore, or expect anything to go smoothly. Just my opinion of course, based on recent personal experience. You also might want to read "Disturbing incident with FAA" over on the Avid forum at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/avid_flyer/message/21504 about someone trying to replace a medical certificate that was in a lost wallet. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer Sent: 29 January 2009 1:23 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Getting a replacement airworthiness Hey guys, As you know I rebuilt a wrecked avid. I only had a copy of the airworthiness and not the original. The AI buddy that looked the plane over wont sign it off till I get an "original". This has been going on since November. Normally he said it was no big deal as he has gone through this before, he just filled out a form, faxed it in and magically the new airworthiness appears in the mail in a few weeks... This time, they (FAA FSDO) have lost the fax 3 times. The FSDO has now decided that they need to send an inspector down to look it over before issuing a new one. Fine, come on down and look. Well they have canceled twice now (today being the second time). I told them I was not going to be held hostage and was going to continue to fly the plane anyway.... Have any of you guys been through this with the FAA just trying to get a replacement AW cert? -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE Leonard Perry Soldotna AK Avid "C" / Mk IV 582 IVO IFA Full Lotus 1260 #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009 hander outer of humorless darwin awards Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227533#227533 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:47 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: X-Plane test From: "JetPilot" X-Plane is a neat piece of software, but it is far from being accurate for these kinds of mods. It is fun and informative to play around with, but we need to see this piece of software for what it is, more of an enthusiast game than a tool made for serious aircraft design. If aircraft design and mods could be determined by simply plugging in all the info into X-Plane, most planes would be built perfectly optimized for their purpose right from the start. The reality is, nothing we have ( Boeing Might Have ) right now that we can use on our Ordinary PC's ( Again Boeing, Airbus, etc. use supercomputers ) will tell us accurately the effect of mods and design changes on a Kitfox. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227571#227571 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:33 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring There was a trick that was in one of the builders magazines when I was building years ago that suggested white heatshrink with colored bands that used the resister code. It was easy to put the heatshrink over an appropriately sized drill bit in the cordless drill and drawing the lines with the drill in low speed. Recommended was colored Sharpies. I used this and not only does it look nifty, it works well with one exception. After about five years the yellow and orange looks pretty much the same. I had every wire coded this way and relate at a glance each wire to the diagram. Each system had a designated first color, i.e., lighting, instruments, ignition, etc. Dymo makes imprintable Heat Shrink, but last time I looked it was pretty much jumbo sized. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Installed white LED Nav light and covering Rudder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > I just found the number markers that I used to use in model planes. We > used them in the wind tunnel at Chrysler to number thermocouples and > leads. (Apparently some of these found their way into my toolbox when I > left there) They are/were made by the W. H. Brady Co., Milwaukee, > Toronto, London, Brussels. They probably have an internet site, but I'm > going by the printing on the "cards" themselves...and these are OLD. Each > "card" contains 36 strips of a particular number. Each strip repeats the > number 6 times, so you can wrap a strip around a wire and see what number > it is from completely around the wire. They are adhesive-backed, and you > just peel the strip off the card and apply. You could apply a strip to > the wire in question, on either side of the firewall for example, and at > each end of the wire, or when the wire disappears behind something for > easy tracing. I just wish I had found them when I was wiring my plane. I > made up hand- written notes on pieces of white tape and applied to the > wire...time- consuming. The ones I have are numbered 1 through 20, but I > recall having 120 thermocouples on a car, so the numbers go up that high. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 29, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > >> Aircraft wire is designed to be light, pretty fire proof and best of all >> made to go into airplanes. That pretty much says it all. >> >> >> >> Crimp all connections, solder should be reserved for work inside the >> devices not outside. Preferably beg, borrow, buy or steal a crimper >> from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent results and >> are nothing like the ones available at electronics shops. >> >> >> >> Finally number your wires and make a block diagram of your wiring. If >> you ever have a problem you have something to study and even show others >> for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram may be worth its >> weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your devices and number them 1, >> 2, 3... Then the wire from your fuse to the switch of device 1 would be >> marked 1-a. . From the switch to the device 1-b and so on. Or you can >> mark the wires with a couple of markers using the binary number system. >> (red=1,Bk=0) Starting with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire >> with just four dots just always number from the source of current. You >> may also number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out >> the number. >> >> >> >> Failing that you may find someone with a wire numbering machine... now >> that would be nice. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:18 PM >> To: kitfox matronics >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Tore the wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that hard to >> rewire. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple of standard >> wires in the ignition system, but was planning on using aircraft wire to >> rewire the panel. What are your thoughts on standard wire vs aircraft >> wire? >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> >> >> >> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:24:44 -0330 >> >> Marwynne: >> >> >> >> Youre being a bit hard on Patrick arent you... NOT! One thing no one >> in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind of fire. >> And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one. >> >> >> >> I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> >> >> To answer your question why someone did something is hard to >> answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the fuse or >> breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or fuse is in >> there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have worked in the >> electrical field for more than 35 years and is very common for people to >> misunderstand there function. I am glad to see you are going to >> correct the problem . This will make it a safer plane for you to fly. >> You don't want a fire while you are flying.... >> >> >> >> Marwynne Kuhn >> >> Hilltop Lakes 0TE4 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Noel Loveys >> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM >> >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years ago >> when I studied aircraft wiring. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM >> To: kitfox matronics >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will not >> shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is not a >> "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an >> electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was >> located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse >> system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse, and then >> to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did >> such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on >> the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then >> a fuse, except in a battery shut off switch. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> >> >> >> > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330 >> > >> >> > >> > I'll answer your question with a question >> > >> > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real >> possibility. >> > >> > + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device) >> > | >> > (-) >> > >> > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short. >> > >> > Noel >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Michael Gibbs >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:53 AM >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> > >> >> > >> > Pat sez: >> > >> > >Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does >> not >> > >answer my question. >> > > >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > > >> > > >> > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire >> > >connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the >> > >fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is >> not >> > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. >> > >> > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted" >> > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow >> > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a >> > short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit, >> > which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the >> > device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow >> through >> > the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus >> > opening the circuit and stopping the current flow. >> > >> > >What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? >> > >> > The device would be on, nothing more. >> > >> > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there >> was >> > >a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that >> > >circuit. >> > >> > No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents current flow. >> > It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to the point >> > of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of electricity. >> > >> > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. >> > >> > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it. >> > >> > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at >> > >one of the switches. >> > >> > The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't >> turn >> > it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you >> > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not >> > shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow. >> > >> > Mike G. >> > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster >> > Phoenix, AZ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >===================== >> >=========== >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// >> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// >> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// >> forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ >> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/ >> Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox- >> Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// >> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ============================================================ _- >> ============================================================ _- >> contribution_- >> =========================================================== > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:46 PM PST US From: Eggstaf@aol.com Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! The main kit box for serial # ECV001 Vixen arrived here on June 29, 1993. I made the first flight out of Hilo, Hawaii (ITO) on January 14, 2009. It turned out to be, as they say, a non event. It was one of the most rewarding and exciting things I've done in my whole life and that's saying something at 69 years of age. All of you that are building really have a great day to look forward to!!! Thanks to all who have provided input over the years and special thanks to John & Debra McBean. Lloyd Eggstaff **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:31 PM PST US From: "Cudnohufsky's" <7suds@Chartermi.net> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! Congratulations Lloyd!!! We would love to see some pics if you get the chance. PS: My younger brother is stationed in Kauai. Lloyd Cudnohufsky Model 5 Rebuild 912ul IVO IFA Northern Michigan From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eggstaf@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 7:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! The main kit box for serial # ECV001 Vixen arrived here on June 29, 1993. I made the first flight out of Hilo, Hawaii (ITO) on January 14, 2009. It turned out to be, as they say, a non event. It was one of the most rewarding and exciting things I've done in my whole life and that's saying something at 69 years of age. All of you that are building really have a great day to look forward to!!! Thanks to all who have provided input over the years and special thanks to John & Debra McBean. Lloyd Eggstaff _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or8747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%2 6hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Kitfox-List "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution Checked by AVG. 7:24 PM Checked by AVG. 7:24 PM ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: John Bonewitz Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape - I mean speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up with looked so good (even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary. Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape to the trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying it out on top of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another piece of tape on top of the first, face down, forming a double thick layer. I then folded the tape back over the top of the elevator and pushed it through the hinge gap, attaching it to the bottom leading edge of the elevator, making sure the elevator was full up so it stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips for each half of the stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware. It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking off and having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort of sliver streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane - That kind of embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with a streamer of toilet paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that didn't happen. After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? Well, one thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I have in this aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is difficult (at least for me). In hindsight, I probably should have flown right before I made the modification. Today, the air was cold and the wind was light and variable - quite a change from what we normally experience in North Texas. It's difficult to compare this flight to the myriad of others I've made in drastically different conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but I can say it sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some 3-pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The main point I'd like to pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly the airplane right before you install it. You'll be glad you did. Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out of to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. Though not as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to the elements. Any other suggestions? John Bonewitz Kitfox 5 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:44 PM PST US From: "Andy Fultz" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring You can also make your wire labels on your computer in a word processing program using a small font, cut them out and affix them to the wire using clear heat shrink. Andy F. -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring There was a trick that was in one of the builders magazines when I was building years ago that suggested white heatshrink with colored bands that used the resister code. It was easy to put the heatshrink over an appropriately sized drill bit in the cordless drill and drawing the lines with the drill in low speed. Recommended was colored Sharpies. I used this and not only does it look nifty, it works well with one exception. After about five years the yellow and orange looks pretty much the same. I had every wire coded this way and relate at a glance each wire to the diagram. Each system had a designated first color, i.e., lighting, instruments, ignition, etc. Dymo makes imprintable Heat Shrink, but last time I looked it was pretty much jumbo sized. Lowell Fitt Cameron Park, CA Model IV-1200 R-912 UL Installed white LED Nav light and covering Rudder ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring > > I just found the number markers that I used to use in model planes. We > used them in the wind tunnel at Chrysler to number thermocouples and > leads. (Apparently some of these found their way into my toolbox when I > left there) They are/were made by the W. H. Brady Co., Milwaukee, > Toronto, London, Brussels. They probably have an internet site, but I'm > going by the printing on the "cards" themselves...and these are OLD. Each > "card" contains 36 strips of a particular number. Each strip repeats the > number 6 times, so you can wrap a strip around a wire and see what number > it is from completely around the wire. They are adhesive-backed, and you > just peel the strip off the card and apply. You could apply a strip to > the wire in question, on either side of the firewall for example, and at > each end of the wire, or when the wire disappears behind something for > easy tracing. I just wish I had found them when I was wiring my plane. I > made up hand- written notes on pieces of white tape and applied to the > wire...time- consuming. The ones I have are numbered 1 through 20, but I > recall having 120 thermocouples on a car, so the numbers go up that high. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 29, 2009, at 11:39 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > >> Aircraft wire is designed to be light, pretty fire proof and best of all >> made to go into airplanes. That pretty much says it all. >> >> >> >> Crimp all connections, solder should be reserved for work inside the >> devices not outside. Preferably beg, borrow, buy or steal a crimper >> from an A&P . The crimpers they use give very consistent results and >> are nothing like the ones available at electronics shops. >> >> >> >> Finally number your wires and make a block diagram of your wiring. If >> you ever have a problem you have something to study and even show others >> for advice. If you ever sell the airplane that diagram may be worth its >> weight in gold to the new owner. Pick your devices and number them 1, >> 2, 3... Then the wire from your fuse to the switch of device 1 would be >> marked 1-a. . From the switch to the device 1-b and so on. Or you can >> mark the wires with a couple of markers using the binary number system. >> (red=1,Bk=0) Starting with wire #0 you can identify 16 pieces of wire >> with just four dots just always number from the source of current. You >> may also number the source end of a wire to make it easy to figure out >> the number. >> >> >> >> Failing that you may find someone with a wire numbering machine... now >> that would be nice. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly >> Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:18 PM >> To: kitfox matronics >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Tore the wiring off the switch to fuses today. Won't be all that hard to >> rewire. The system was all aircraft wire. I used a couple of standard >> wires in the ignition system, but was planning on using aircraft wire to >> rewire the panel. What are your thoughts on standard wire vs aircraft >> wire? >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> >> >> >> From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2009 11:24:44 -0330 >> >> Marwynne: >> >> >> >> Youre being a bit hard on Patrick arent you... NOT! One thing no one >> in a cloth airplane wants to experience in flight is any kind of fire. >> And the positioning of the fuses was just asking for one. >> >> >> >> I too am glad to see the plane will be made safer. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marwynne Kuhn >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:37 PM >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Patrick, >> >> >> >> To answer your question why someone did something is hard to >> answer without talking to him or her. Most people think the fuse or >> breaker is there to protect radio, etc. The breaker or fuse is in >> there to protect the wire that feeds the load. I have worked in the >> electrical field for more than 35 years and is very common for people to >> misunderstand there function. I am glad to see you are going to >> correct the problem . This will make it a safer plane for you to fly. >> You don't want a fire while you are flying.... >> >> >> >> Marwynne Kuhn >> >> Hilltop Lakes 0TE4 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Noel Loveys >> >> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:12 PM >> >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> The answer to your question is no one told him... I was told years ago >> when I studied aircraft wiring. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox- >> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly >> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:31 PM >> To: kitfox matronics >> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> >> >> >> Noel & Maryanne, That is my question! I know that the device will not >> shut off with a frozen switch as Mike talks about. And, that is not a >> "short". I was worried about a short(to ground) of a switch. Not an >> electrically frozen switch. It wouldn't matter where the fuse was >> located with a "frozen" switch. I guess I should tear the switch/fuse >> system out and run the electricty from source through the fuse, and then >> to the switch. Makes sense to me. How in the Hell can a guy that did >> such high quality work on the rest of the plane be that uninformed on >> the electrical cirrcuitry. I have never seen power to a switch and then >> a fuse, except in a battery shut off switch. >> >> Pat Reilly >> Mod 3 582 Rebuild >> Rockford, IL >> >> >> >> >> > From: noelloveys@yahoo.ca >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 13:07:48 -0330 >> > >> >> > >> > I'll answer your question with a question >> > >> > What happens if the switch gets shorted to ground, a real >> possibility. >> > >> > + ------(Switch) -------(fuse)----(Device) >> > | >> > (-) >> > >> > What you describe is a switch frozen open not a short. >> > >> > Noel >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >> Michael Gibbs >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 1:53 AM >> > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com >> > Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Panel Wiring >> > >> >> > >> > Pat sez: >> > >> > >Mike and Noel, OK, I got what you are telling me. But, that does >> not >> > >answer my question. >> > > >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > >+-----(Switch)-----(Fuse)-----(Devise)----(-) >> > > >> > > >> > >All the +'s on the left form a power buss. Mine is actually a wire >> > >connecting 1 terminal of each switch. Next in the circuit is the >> > >fuse. Mike, by your definition, shorting of the switch, which is >> not >> > >downline of the fuse would not be protected by that circuits fuse. >> > >> > There is nothing wrong with your diagram. A switch that is "shorted" >> > is simply a switch that is turned on--it allows current to flow >> > through the circuit. You don't need to "protect" the switch from a >> > short. What you want to protect is the wire that forms the circuit, >> > which you've done by placing a fuse in the circuit. A short in the >> > device (with the switch on) would cause too much current flow >> through >> > the wire, and that's what the fuse will prevent by blowing, thus >> > opening the circuit and stopping the current flow. >> > >> > >What would happen if there was a dead short at a switch? >> > >> > The device would be on, nothing more. >> > >> > >If the fuse was hooked into the buss before the switch and there >> was >> > >a dead short at the switch, you would only lose power to that >> > >circuit. >> > >> > No. Opening a circuit anywhere in the circuit prevents current flow. >> > It's not like a water leak which could continue to flow to the point >> > of the leak. Any break in a circuit stops the flow of electricity. >> > >> > >I have never seen power to a switch and then to a fuse. >> > >> > I didn't do mine this way but I see no problem with it. >> > >> > >...I don't know what fuse would blow if there was a dead short at >> > >one of the switches. >> > >> > The device controlled by the switch would be on and you couldn't >> turn >> > it off, that's all. But the same would be true even if you >> > rearranged your fuses and switches. As long as the device is not >> > shorted, the fuse shouldn't blow. >> > >> > Mike G. >> > N728KF, Kitfox IV-1200 Speedster >> > Phoenix, AZ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >===================== >> >=========== >> > >> > >> > >> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// >> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http:// >> www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// >> forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/ >> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/ >> Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution >> >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox- >> Listronics.comww.matronics.com/contribution http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Listhttp:// >> forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution >> ============================================================ _- >> ============================================================ _- >> contribution_- >> =========================================================== > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:05 PM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report John, Great to hear from you again and welcome home. I'm enjoying your adventure with the gap seals. You asked about replacing the duct tape. Well, if you did like the duct tape, as you suggest, why not go to the aviation aisle at home depot and get white duct tape (there are other colors available.) I do know that as good as the 'high speed tape' is, after about a year in the sun it would be best to replace it. (I think that holds true for most tapes.) There is one tape, made by 3M, that I used for the stripes on my aircraft, that is available in auto parts stores that is somewhat resistant to the effects of the sun. If your interested, I can get the name of it for you tomorrow when I get to my hangar. One thing to be careful about, the vinyls tend to stretch, but I don't know if it's significant enough to be a factor or not. Good luck on the the adventure and please continue to keep us posted. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Jan 29, 2009, at 9:54 PM, John Bonewitz wrote: > Today I spent about an hour fashioning a make-shift gap seal for my > elevator. I decided to first make a temporary seal out of duct tape > - I mean speed tape :) to test its effectiveness. What I ended up > with looked so good (even in silver) that I wish it weren't temporary. > > Installation was real easy. I attached about a half inch of the tape > to the trailing edge of the stabilizer and folded it forward, laying > it out on top of the stab, sticky side up. I then attached another > piece of tape on top of the first, face down, forming a double thick > layer. I then folded the tape back over the top of the elevator and > pushed it through the hinge gap, attaching it to the bottom leading > edge of the elevator, making sure the elevator was full up so it > stretched the tape taught. I made up three strips for each half of > the stab so I could stay clear of hinges and hardware. > > It looked good, but would it stay on in flight? I envisioned taking > off and having the tower announce to the world that I had some sort > of sliver streamer ("looks like duct tape") trailing behind my plane > - That kind of embarrassment, like coming out of the men's room with > a streamer of toilet paper stuck to your shoe. Fortunately, that > didn't happen. > > After over an hour airborne all was well. But how did it handle? > Well, one thing I learned is that even with as much experience as I > have in this aircraft, detecting a small nuance of change is > difficult (at least for me). In hindsight, I probably should have > flown right before I made the modification. Today, the air was cold > and the wind was light and variable - quite a change from what we > normally experience in North Texas. It's difficult to compare this > flight to the myriad of others I've made in drastically different > conditions. I can't say it made a big difference, but I can say it > sure didn't hurt. As I spend more time with it and get some 3- > pointers-on-grass behind me, I should know more. The main point I'd > like to pass on is that when you make a mod like this, fly the > airplane right before you install it. You'll be glad you did. > > Question. What should I replace the duct tape with? One thought was > to purchase some vinyl sign material (the stuff they cut letters out > of to put on banners or vehicles) pre-cut to the width I need. > Though not as thick as duct tape, it is strong and should hold up to > the elements. Any other suggestions? > > John Bonewitz > Kitfox 5 > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! From: John Bonewitz Congratulations on the fine accomplishment Lloyd! Hawaii huh? I can't imagine how great it must be flying there. John Bonewitz Series 5 Taildragger On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 7:27 PM, wrote: > The main kit box for serial # ECV001 Vixen arrived here on June 29, 1993. > I made the first flight out of Hilo, Hawaii (ITO) on January 14, 2009. It > turned out to be, as they say, a non event. It was one of the most rewarding > and exciting things I've done in my whole life and that's saying something > at 69 years of age. All of you that are building really have a great day to > look forward to!!! Thanks to all who have provided input over the years and > special thanks to John & Debra McBean. Lloyd Eggstaff > > ------------------------------ > *A Good Credit Score is 700 or8747/aol?redir > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> > See yours in just 2 easy steps!* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:38 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! Congratulations Lloyd! That is a historically important completion! What did you use for power? Randy Series 5/7 Do not archive _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eggstaf@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 6:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Serial # 1 Vixen, first flight! The main kit box for serial # ECV001 Vixen arrived here on June 29, 1993. I made the first flight out of Hilo, Hawaii (ITO) on January 14, 2009. It turned out to be, as they say, a non event. It was one of the most rewarding and exciting things I've done in my whole life and that's saying something at 69 years of age. All of you that are building really have a great day to look forward to!!! Thanks to all who have provided input over the years and special thanks to John & Debra McBean. Lloyd Eggstaff _____ A Good Credit Score is 700 or8747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%2 6hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: John Bonewitz Thank you Rick, The only thing I worry about with the duct tape is how I've seen the silver separate from the adhesive backing and leave that crusty adhesive welded to the surface. But then perhaps I'm using cheap duct tape. Heck, I'd leave it on if I didn't think it would do that. The 3M tape sounds good. Does it come wide enough? John Bonewitz Series 5 Taildragger On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 9:41 PM, Weiss Richard wrote: > John, > Great to hear from you again and welcome home. I'm enjoying your adventure > with the gap seals. > > You asked about replacing the duct tape. Well, if you did like the duct > tape, as you suggest, why not go to the aviation aisle at home depot and get > white duct tape (there are other colors available.) I do know that as good > as the 'high speed tape' is, after about a year in the sun it would be best > to replace it. (I think that holds true for most tapes.) There is one > tape, made by 3M, that I used for the stripes on my aircraft, that is > available in auto parts stores that is somewhat resistant to the effects of > the sun. If your interested, I can get the name of it for you tomorrow when > I get to my hangar. One thing to be careful about, the vinyls tend to > stretch, but I don't know if it's significant enough to be a factor or not. > > Good luck on the the adventure and please continue to keep us posted. > > Rick Weiss > N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS > SkyStar S/N 1 > Port Orange, FL > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:06 PM PST US From: "JC Propeller Design" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: X-Plane test Fact is that not even Boeing or other is getting it right first time, more then seldom test flight lead to changes. Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 10:32 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: X-Plane test > > X-Plane is a neat piece of software, but it is far from being accurate for > these kinds of mods. It is fun and informative to play around with, but > we need to see this piece of software for what it is, more of an > enthusiast game than a tool made for serious aircraft design. > > If aircraft design and mods could be determined by simply plugging in all > the info into X-Plane, most planes would be built perfectly optimized for > their purpose right from the start. The reality is, nothing we have ( > Boeing Might Have ) right now that we can use on our Ordinary PC's ( Again > Boeing, Airbus, etc. use supercomputers ) will tell us accurately the > effect of mods and design changes on a Kitfox. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227571#227571 > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 3811 (20090129) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.