---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/03/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:11 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: ski saver (Catz631@aol.com) 3. 05:38 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@aol.com) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (patrick reilly) 5. 06:46 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report (patrick reilly) 6. 06:52 AM - Re: ski saver (patrick reilly) 7. 09:10 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 (b gammon) 8. 09:21 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 (Ed Gray) 9. 04:34 PM - Mogas revisited (Lowell Fitt) 10. 05:08 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (sbennett3) 11. 06:08 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (Randy Daughenbaugh) 12. 06:14 PM - Brake line fittings question... (Cwehner) 13. 07:04 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (Lowell Fitt) 14. 07:05 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (Lowell Fitt) 15. 07:31 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (Weiss Richard) 16. 08:13 PM - Re: Mogas revisited (Roger Lee) 17. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 (Larry Boone) 18. 10:14 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 (sourdostan@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:25 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report Patrick, Thanks for the complement on my TR3. The gap seal on my rudder is a vertical piece of contoured foam that I covered with 6 inch Polyfiber tape and painted. If you look at the picture, the hinge areas were not covered so that I would have access to the hinge bolts. Previously that entire area between the vertical stab and rudder was about a 2 inch gap. The contoured foam is available from John McBean. I epoxied it to the trailing edge of the vertical stab. The aircraft was already painted but I could not stand to look at that huge gap so I had to do it. I have enclosed a picture of a taped temporary rudder gap seal I tried (looked horrible) and it shows the old gap a little better. Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:35 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Patrick, You will love that elevator trim tab of Lowell's ! It makes the Kitfox a new airplane ! I have the trim switch(witches hat) on the top of my stick and use it constently. Flaps never come into play for triming purposes as they used too. Best investment I ever made ! Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:56 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Chris, I tried to request a sample from that gap seal website in England but it wouldn't work. I suspect they are out of business as it is an old website. The stuff looks good and I sure would like to try a sample. Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl Do not archive **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:16 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Dick & Chris=2C I tried to order a sample also. I had same result as you di d Dick. do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 3 Feb 2009 08:30:49 -0500Subject: Re: Kit fox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com Chris=2C I tried to request a sample from that gap seal website in England but it w ouldn't work. I suspect they are out of business as it is an old website. T he stuff looks good and I sure would like to try a sample. Dick Maddux Pensacola=2CFl Do not archive Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu ch more. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:28 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report Dick=2C WOW!=2C I see the gap in the picture outside. You must have painted the gap seal material to match the planes paint job. I'm impressed=2C beca use I really can't see the gap seal material on the picture inside the hang er. So you still have a gap. But=2C it is very small? You going to fly that plane to Oshkosh this year?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 3 Feb 2009 08:09:34 -0500Subject: Re: Kit fox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test ReportTo: kit fox-list@matronics.com Patrick=2C Thanks for the complement on my TR3. The gap seal on my rudder is a vertic al piece of contoured foam that I covered with 6 inch Polyfiber tape and pa inted. If you look at the picture=2C the hinge areas were not covered so th at I would have access to the hinge bolts. Previously that entire area betw een the vertical stab and rudder was about a 2 inch gap. The contoured foam is available from John McBean. I epoxied it to the trailing edge of the v ertical stab. The aircraft was already painted but I could not stand to loo k at that huge gap so I had to do it. I have enclosed a picture of a taped temporary rudder gap seal I tried (looked horrible) and it shows the old ga p a little better. Dick Maddu x Pensacola =2CFl Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu ch more. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:04 AM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: ski saver Dick=2C Thanks for the picture I am about to leave for the hanger to pick u p my elevator. I will tear into it today. I figure the cost will be about $ 450 give or take a few. What electrical wire did you use and what was the s ource?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 3 Feb 2009 08:16:37 -0500Subject: Re: Kit fox-List: ski saverTo: kitfox-list@matronics.com Patrick=2C You will love that elevator trim tab of Lowell's ! It makes the Kitfox a new airplane ! I have the trim switch(witches hat) on the top of my stick a nd use it constently. Flaps never come into play for triming purposes as th ey used too. Best investment I ever made ! Dick Maddux Pensacola=2CFl Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu ch more. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:10:34 AM PST US From: b gammon Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 Is any one planning a "Kitfox" trip to Alaska this Summer?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0AFrom: Kitfox-List Digest Server =0ATo: Kitfox-List Digest List =0ASent: Monday, February 2, 2009 11:59:05 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09=0A=0A*=0A=0A=========== ===============0A- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive=0A================= =========0A=0AToday's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includes the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file i ncludes the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Kitfox-List Digest and can be vie wed with a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHTML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview .php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0AT ext Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?St yle=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0A=0A== ======================0A- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive=0A=========== =============0A=0A=0A- - - - - ---------- ------------------------------------------------=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Mon 02/02/09: 22=0A - - - - - ------------------------------------------------------- ---=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Lowlead)=0A- - 2. 01: 04 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09- (b gammon)=0A- - 3. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: ski saver AKFLYERBOB- (Larry Huntley)=0A- - 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 5. 07:01 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Catz631@aol .com)=0A- - 6. 07:03 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (lowflye r)=0A- - 7. 07:05 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Catz631@AO L.COM)=0A- - 8. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Re xinator)=0A- - 9. 07:34 AM - Re: air worthiness- (dcsfoto)=0A- - 10. 09:41 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (darinh)=0A- - 11. 10:54 AM - Re: ski saver- (George Wells)=0A- - 12. 03:58 PM - Kitfox owner location map- (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)=0A- - 13. 04:45 PM - Re: El evator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report- (patrick reilly )=0A- - 14. 05:09 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (patrick reilly)=0A- - 15. 05:27 PM - Re: Kitfox broken motor mount- (Malcolm Brubaker)=0A- - 16. 05:44 PM - Posting videos- (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)=0A- - 17. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 18 . 06:55 PM - Flaperon hinge brackets- (clemwehner)=0A- - 19. 07:02 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 20. 07:20 PM - Re: Fw: sk i saver- (patrick reilly)=0A- - 21. 07:33 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- ( Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 22. 07:46 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets- (Tom Jones)=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1- _______ ______________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 12:04:06 AM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0AFrom: "Lowlead" =0A=0A=0AThanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire=0Alength of the gap, but it's not. The gaps te nd to be smaller on the outboard=0Aends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames.=0A=0A=0AInstallation is hard to descr ibe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about=0Athis tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at=0Afirst. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with=0Aa very slig ht 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then=0Athe bo ttom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of=0A1/4 " tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The tw o=0Atapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble ' running=0Athe entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and finger s to press=0Athe top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (se e attached). It's=0Atough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight in stallation. There's=0Ano worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor.=0A=0AThe control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position when tape=0Ais applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation=0A(ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..)=0AHope this makes sense...=0A=0ADan H.=0A=0A=0Arexinator wrote: =0A> That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my- >-<- symbol and my =0A> little drawn image file.- I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can =0A> you elaborate on how you applied so well?=0A> =0A> Rex=0A> Co lorado M2/582=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp ://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125=0A=0A=0AAttachments : =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________- Message 2- _________________________________ ____=0A=0A=0ATime: 01:04:57 AM PST US=0AFrom: b gammon =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09=0A=0ATh is is my first attempt to participate in the Kitfox discussions. =0AIs an =0Ayone planning to fly a Kitfox to Alaska this Summer?=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________=0A________________________=0AFrom: Kitfox-List Digest Serve r =0ATo: Kitfox-List Digest List =0ASent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:59:13 PM =0ASubject: Kitfox-List Diges=0At: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09=0A=0A*=0A=0 A==============0A========== ===0A- Online Versions of Today's List =0ADigest Archive=0A== ==================0A======= 0A=0AToday's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be fou=0And in either o f the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includ=0Aes the Dige st formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and featu=0Ares Hy perlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file include=0As t he plain ASCII version =0Aof the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed wi =0Ath a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. = 0A=0AHT=0AML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digest view.php?Sty=0Ale=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0 A=0AText Vers=0Aion:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestv iew.php?Style=82=0A701&View=txt&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0A =0A=0A=====0A================ ====0A- EMail Versi=0Aon of Today's List Digest Archive=0A== ============0A===========0A=0 A=0A- - - - - ----------------=0A---------------------------------------- --=0A- - - - - - - =0A- - - - - - Kitfox-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - =0A- - - - - - - Total Messa ges Posted Sun 02/01/09: 21=0A- =0A- - - - ------------------------------ ----------------------------=0A=0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A-- --------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 06=0A:38 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Te st Report- (Catz631@aol.com)=0A- - 2=0A. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- =0A- 3. 11:09 AM - Re: Elevator Gap S eal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- =0A- 4. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Ga p Seal Test Report- (Lynn Matteson)=0A=0A- - 5. 12:02 PM - Kitfox with ro tax fuel injection- (jason Parker)=0A=0A- - 6. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Elevato r Gap Seal Test Report- (Randy Da=0Aughenbaugh)=0A- - 7. 02:22 PM - Re: E levator Gap Seal Test Report- (L=0Aynn Matteson)=0A- - 8. 03:02 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- =0A(Bob Brennan)=0A- - 9. 03:13 PM - Ski r eport/snow conditions- (Lynn M=0Aatteson)=0A- - 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Elevat or Gap Seal Test Report- (Lyn=0An Matteson)=0A- - 11. 03:24 PM - Re: Elev ator Gap Seal Test Report- (=0ALarry Huntley)=0A- - 12. 05:00 PM - Re: El evator Gap Seal Test Report=0A- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 13. 05:05 PM - Re: El evator Gap Seal Test Repor=0At- (Lowlead)=0A- - 14. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: El evator Gap Seal Test Repo=0Art- (Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 15. 05:39 PM - Fw: ski saver- (Larry Hunt=0Aley)=0A- - 16. 06:11 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (pa trick reilly)=0A- =0A- 17. 06:50 PM - Re: ski saver- (AKFLYERBOB)=0A- - 18. 08:17 PM - R=0Ae: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Rexinator)=0A- - 19. 09:18 PM =0A- Re: Fw: ski saver- (John Bonewitz)=0A- - 20. 11:08 P M - Official Ki=0Atfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)- (Matt Dralle) =0A- - 21. 1=0A1:25 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines- (Matt Dra lle)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1- ___ ____________________=0A______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:38:03 AM PST U S=0AFrom: Catz631@aol.com=0AS=0Aubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap S eal Test Report=0A=0AThat foam weath=0Aer striping sounds like a good i dea. You could further refine =0Athis by pu=0Atting a strip of teflon ant ichafe tape on the other side of the =0Aweather =0Astriping foam(oposite the adhesive side) or on the elevator leading edge=0A=0A=0Afor that mat er. This stuff is real slick and I bought a roll of it from =0ASpruce=0A =0Aas a cowling chafe tape a while back. It works real well.=0AOnl=0Ay thing is, in the heat the adhesive on weather strip tends to give way =0A =0Ainto a goo.=0A- That sailplane tape looks interesting also=0A- - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=0A- - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A- - - - - - - - =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=0A- - - Pensacola,Fl .=0A**************From Wall Street to Main Street =0Aand everywhere in be tween, stay =0Aup-to-date with the latest news. (http:/=0A/aol.com?ncid =emlcntaolcom00000023)=0A=0A________________________________=0A- Mess age 2- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:02:=0A0 6 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kit=0Afox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AOr you coul d attach the=0Aseal, on the elevator side only with good old 1 in.=0AVelc ro.=0A=0AAnother=0Athing to try is to cover the leading edge of the ele vator and rudder=0Awit=0Ah the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to t hat tape so when you=0Aremo=0Ave the seal you don't disturb the dope unde r it.=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A-----Origin=0Aal Message-----=0AFrom: owner- kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:ow=0Aner-kitfox-list-server@ma tronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Sa=0Aturday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator G=0Aap Seal Test Re port=0A=0A=0AGood idea, but I'm from the camp that always wa=0Ants to be able to take- =0Asomething apart if a problem arises. I guess i=0Af a rock passed through- =0Athe elevator, you could always MEK the Vee of=0A f from the elevator, and- =0Amaybe reattach it when the repairs were made =0A. A longer process, by- =0Afar, than the tape method, but cleaner-look ing=0A.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJab iru 2200, #206=0A2, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fir e ignition system=0AN=0Aew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller D=0Aesign wrote:=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> You can use that, bu=0At why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the- =0A> middle and dope one Ve=0Ae to stab and other to ele vator.=0A>=0A> Or use sail fabric that is air tig=0Aht from start=0A> =0A> Jan=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot"=0A=0A> To: =0A> Sent: Fri=0Aday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Se =0Aal Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> Why not just=0Ause a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to- =0A>> seal the gap ?=0A??- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look- =0A>> good !- Much b=0Aetter than tape.=0A>>=0A>> Mike=0A>>=0A>> -------- =0A>> "NO FEAR"=0A-- If you have no fear you did not go as fast - =0A>> as you could have=0A!!!=0A>>=0A>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0 A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Read this t=0Aopic online here:=0A>>=0A >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2=0A27727#227727=0A>>= 0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> __=0A________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus- =0 A>> s=0Aignature database 3814 (20090131) __________=0A>>=0A>> The mess age was chec=0Aked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A >=0A=0A=0A_______________=0A_________________- Message 3- ___________ __________________________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:09:12 AM PST US=0AFr om: "Noel Loveys" =0A=0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: El evator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0ASunday afte=0Arnoon and I can visualiz e the X system easy now...- Friday nights=0Anot t=0Ahe best night of the week for me;-).- =0A=0AI agree the X system allows f=0Aor a light hinge on a model but a place for=0Agrass and leaves etc. To catc=0Ah in the "R eal thing".- =0A=0AWhat I was thinking at first was a couple o=0Af piec es of say 2 1/2 inch tape=0Asewn right down the middle and then one h=0Aa lf of each tape doped to the=0Astabilizers with the other halves just fin i=0Ashed to match the plane.- They=0Ashould be stiff enough to seal the g aps =0Ain flight.- I'll attach a couple of=0Arough diagrams... emphasis o n the t=0Aerm rough!=0A=0ANoel =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom : owner-kitfox-lis=0At-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-s erver@matronics.com] On=0ABehalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Saturday, Janua ry 31, 2009 8:04 AM=0ASubje=0Act: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANope, no picture=0Aor drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation- =0Awears off....the f=0Alat surface of the stab and elev ator, as viewed- =0Afrom the side/edge, w=0Aith the tape starting on the top left, and- =0Acrossing to the bottom rig=0Aht. (This of course assume s that you have- =0Aproperly made the tape with=0Aan inch of the sticky s urfaces against- =0Aeach other so that the tape c=0Aan- be stuck down on the top left and- =0Athe bottom right) Now another=0Atape from the bottom left crossing to- =0Athe top right. Where they pass=0Aby each other, the y form an "X". Then- =0Aimagine a piece of tape 2" wid=0Ae being placed f rom top of stab to- =0Abottom of elev. (top left to botto=0Am right), and next to it another- =0Atape placed from bottom left to top =0Aright. Con tinue alternating tapes- =0Auntil gap is sealed. I can imagine =0Ahow thi s would look on a full-size- =0Aplane, and I don't like what I ima=0Agine . It worked fine on the models- =0Aand looked ok, and made an especia=0Al ly lightweight hinge. I personally- =0Adon't like the idea of this "over =0Aand under" tape application, as it- =0Aalways leaves a place where jun k =0Acan collect, no matter which way you- =0Ado it. I much prefer to let the =0Aelevator hang down, apply the tape- =0Aacross the gap, and leave it at th=0Aat. I use "racer's tape" that I- =0Aordered in orange, which i s the color=0Aof my plane in that area...the- =0Acolor is not a perfect m atch...howeve=0Ar, I can't see that mismatch- =0Awhen I'm flying and neit her can anybody =0Aelse. The owners of "hangar- =0Aqueens" would not like my reasoning, I'm =0Asure.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, =0A#2062, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AE lectroair direct-fire ignition system=0A=0ANew skis done and flying=0A =0A=0AOn Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noel Lovey=0As wrote:=0A=0A> Lyn n:=0A> do you have a picture or drawing of the X system?=0A=0A> Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem- =0A=0A> visual izing your X setup.=0A>=0A> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A> --- On Fri, 1/30/09 =0A, Lynn Matteson wrote:=0A> From: Lynn Matteson =0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Re port=0A> T=0Ao: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 P=0AM=0A>=0A>=0A> If you really want to drive yoursel f nuts over this gap seali=0Ang- =0A> issue, try the=0A> "X" method ins tead of the "Z" method. We used=0Athe=0A> "X" method on our model planes. =0A> The "Z" method has been explai=0Aned....from under (or over) the=0 A> trailing portion of the hort. stab, to =0Aover (or under) the leading- =0A> portion of=0A> the elevator, forming a =0A"Z" when view from the s ide. The "X"=0A> method is just alternating the pla=0Acement of lengths o f 2" wide- =0A> tape, over=0A> and under, then under a=0And over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the=0A> "X" method, you make str=0Aips of ta pe that go, say, 2" wide and=0A> from front to back, instead of th=0Ae "Z " method where you run the tape=0A> from side of elevator to hinge, the =0An hinge to hinge, and so on.=0A> The jury is still out on whether this is a=0Agood method or not...how- =0A> 'bout=0A> some thoughts?=0A> =0A> As an as=0Aide, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge i s- =0A> needed, =0Aas=0A> the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and=0A=0A> in using the "X" method, the elevator oper ates freely without the use=0A=0A> of hinges...not recommended for "live- in" airplanes.=0A>=0A> Lynn Matt=0Aeson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, tail dragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs=0A=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> New ski=0As done and flying= 0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Me=0Arlin GT wro te:=0A>=0A> =0A> >=0A> > On Fri, January 30,=0A 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:=0A> >> Does anybody have pictures of the g a=0Ap seal installation?=0A> >=0A> > I too would be interested in seein g photos=0A. I'm interested in- =0A> details=0A> of shape,=0A> > over lap and what ha=0Appens to the slack when you run neutral or down=0A> ele vator.=0A> >=0A> > D=0Aoes the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer- =0A> or =0Athe=0A> elevator with=0A> > dirt and debr is sticking to the small exposed b=0Ait of adhesive?=0A> >=0A> > Which way is better to put them on - leading ed=0Age on top or- =0A> bottom of Get the name you've always wanted ! @ymail.c=0Aom or- =0A> @rocketmail.co m. _- =0A> www.matronics.com/contribution _- =0A=0A> ====== ==================0A======= =====0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A- Message 4- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:26:=0A09 AM PS T US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox=0A- List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI just flew my plane today=0A, and during the pre-flight I noticed that- =0Athe gap-seal tape. ..orange=0ARacer's Tape...that I applied on 10-5-2008- =0Ais still holdin g fast. I =0Awrote the date onto the tape to keep track- =0Aof how well i t held up. Th=0Ae same tape that I applied earlier...God- =0Aknows when.. .is also still h=0Aolding fas, so maybe we're overthinking- =0Athis gap-s eal "problem." Of c=0Aourse, mine is applied over the top of- =0Athe gap and nothing underneath=0A, so the purists among us...you- know- =0Awho yo u are...would not buy t=0Ahis fix.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Spe edster, taildragger=0AJabiru 220=0A0, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46 =0AElectroair direct-fire ignition syste=0Am=0ANew skis done and flying =0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Noel Love=0Ays wrote:=0A=0A >=0A> Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side onl=0Ay with goo d- =0A> old 1 in.=0A> Velcro.=0A>=0A> Another thing to try is t=0Ao cover the leading edge of the elevator- =0A> and rudder=0A> with the p l=0Aastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when- =0A> you= 0A> re=0Amove the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.=0A>=0A> Noe l=0A>=0A> ---=0A--Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox-list-s erver@matronics.com=0A=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A>=0AMatteson=0A> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 20 09 8:12 AM=0A> To: kitfox-list@=0Amatronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox -List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo=0Art=0A>=0A>=0A> Good idea, bu t I'm from the camp that always wants to be abl=0Ae to take=0A> something apart if a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed=0Athrough=0A> the el evator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevat=0Aor, and=0A> ma ybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process,=0Aby=0A> fa r, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking.=0A>=0A> Lynn Mattes=0Aon =0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs =0A=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A > New ski=0As done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM , JC Propeller Des=0Aign wrote:=0A>=0A>> =0 A>>=0A>> You can use that, =0Abut why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the=0A>> middle and dope one Vee=0Ato stab and other to elevator.=0A>> =0A>> Or use sail fabric that is air ti=0Aght from start=0A>>=0A>> Ja n=0A>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPi=0Alot"- =0A>> =0A>> To: =0A=0A>> Sent: Fri day, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re:=0AElevator G ap Seal Test Report=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> =0A>=0A >>=0A>>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to =0A=0A>>> seal the gap ???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look =0A>>> g=0Aood !- Much better than tape.=0A>>>=0A>>> Mike=0A>>>=0 A>>> --------=0A>>>=0A"NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast=0A>>> =0Aas you could have !!!=0A>>>=0A>>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A=0A>>>=0A>>> Read this topic onl ine here:=0A>>>=0A>>> http://forums.matroni=0Acs.com/viewtopic.php?p= 227727#227727=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A=0A>>>= 0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD3 2=0AAntivirus, version of virus=0A>>> signature database 3814 (20090131) _____=0A_____=0A>>>=0A>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivir us.=0A>>>=0A=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0 A>=0A=0A=0A________________________=0A________- Message 5- __________ ___________________________=0A=0A=0ATime=0A: 12:02:53 PM PST US=0AF rom: jason Parker =0ASubject:=0AKitfox-List: Kitfox with rotax fuel injection=0A=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=0A=tUrFJi93MI o=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=nhiMjZGP-=0ADk=0Awww.youtube=0A.com/wat ch?v=cD4_27rMX6Q=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGx=0A====0A= =====================0A=0A_____ _=0A__________________________- Message 6- ________________________________ =0A_____=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:02:20 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Randy Daughenbau gh" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Ga p Seal Test Repo=0Art=0A=0A=0AMike,=0AUnless you get all the coats and cross coats of poly spr=0Aay on it it won't=0Alast more than a year o r two in the sun.- Maybe that =0Ais permanent enough,=0Abut I worry that with all the flexing, and enough co=0Aats or polyspray, it=0Awill crack. =0A=0ARandy=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message=0A-----=0AFrom: owner -kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox=0A-list-server@m atronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot=0ASent: Friday, January 3=0A0, 2009 1 :19 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A =0A=0AWhy not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to s e=0Aal the gap=0A???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good !- M=0Auch better than=0Atape.=0A=0AMike=0A=0A--------=0A"NO FEAR" -- =0AIf you have no fear you did not go as fast as you=0Acou ld have !!!=0A=0AKol=0Ab MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A=0A=0ARead this top ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum=0As.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2 27727#227727=0A=0A=0A___________________=0A_____________- Message 7- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:22:29 PM PS T US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubj=0Aect: Re: Kitfox- List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catc=0Aher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of=0Aappl ying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to =0Aov er the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space t =0Ahat wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the " X" =0Amethod. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the fro nt to =0Aover the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, hav ing a spa=0Ace underneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "cl ean" plane o=0Atherwise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, No el...good job.- =0A- - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson= 0AKitfox IV Speedst=0Aer, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0AS ensenich 62x46=0AElectroai=0Ar direct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis d one and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, =0A2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wro te:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visu=0Aalize the X system easy no w...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night=0Aof the week for me;-) .=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hin=0Age on a model b ut a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in=0Athe "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pie=0Aces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then =0Aone half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halv es ju=0Ast finished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough =0Ato seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0 A> rough di=0Aagrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A =0A=0A________________=0A________________- Message 8- _________________ ____________________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:02:08 PM PST US=0AFrom: "B ob Brennan" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: E levator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI'=0Am glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0At=0Ahis topic came up a fe w months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture of=0A=0Amy plane I hav e for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on th=0Ae=0Atop side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the p=0Alane.=0 AI assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the p=0Alane =0Aincluding the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I =0Aam=0Agradually replacing since it peels.=0A=0AI was hesitant to po st my me=0Athod since no one else had admitted here to that=0Asimple meth od. I used a =0Ayellow duct tape across the entire topside of the=0Agaps, installed with th=0Ae elevator fully down. With the elevator up it tucks =0Aneatly into the gap.=0AI chose the top instead of the bottom so it wou ld not=0Aaccumulate anythin=0Ag, and left the bottom open to see the hing es on=0Apre-flight.=0A=0ASo far =0Ait has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority on=0Athe =0Ashort-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap my=0A=0Aslowest approach speed w as determined by when I started losing pitch contro=0Al=0Aversus stall sp eed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the=0A=0Aunder-cambe red wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable=0Aon=0Aa Mo del 2 than later Models.=0A=0ABob Brennan - N717GB=0AELSA Repairm=0Aa n, inspection rated=0A1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0ARotax 582 with 3 bl ade=0Aprop=0AWrightsville Pa- =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFr om: owner-k=0Aitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list -server@matronic=0As.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0ASubjec=0At: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report =0A=0A=0AThe "grass catche=0Ar" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of a=0Applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to ov=0Aer the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space tha=0At wants to collects debris. It' s just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" me=0Athod. That's why I've conten ted myself with the- =0A"over the front to ov=0Aer the back" method....ye s it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space=0Aunderneath that can ed dy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane oth=0Aerwise?=0A=0AYou r diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- -=0A- - Lost- =0ASa turday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster,=0Ataildragger =0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair d=0Aire ct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1 , 200=0A9, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visuali=0Aze the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of=0Athe week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system al lows for a light hinge =0Aon a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass an d leaves etc. To catch in th=0Ae "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was think ing at first was a couple of pieces=0Aof say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one=0Ahalf of each tape doped to the= 0A> stabilizers with the other halves just =0Afinished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to =0Aseal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagr=0Aams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A___________________=0A__________ ___- Message 9- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime : 03:13:42 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubj=0A ect: Kitfox-List: Ski report/snow conditions=0A=0A=0ALast week I had a "ski=0Atuck" due to the bungees not being set to a- =0Ahigh enough init ial tens=0Aion. This week I cut 2" from them and- =0Areinstalled and test flew them=0A- yesterday and today, and could not- =0Aget it to happen ag ain. Admitt=0Aedly, I wasn't really giving it what- =0Acould be considere d an acrobatic=0Atest, but I made some (weak) dives- =0Aand pull-ups, and couldn't get th=0Ae ski, or skis, to drop or tuck. I- =0Aeven flew in bu mpy-bangy air. I ha=0Ad made a tension check before and- =0Aafter the sho rtening, and I picked =0Aup about 8 pounds of tension per- =0Acord, or 16 pounds per ski.=0A=0AI f=0Alew today to test the condition of the snow .- Last week when I- =0Atrie=0Ad to leave here to go to Oshkosh, the snow was so wet and heavy- =0Athat =0AI could not get over 20 mph on the take off roll. This was after- =0A2 day=0As of above freezing temps...34-36 de grees F. Today, the- =0Aconditions we=0Are the same...overnight of over f reezing, and 34 F when- =0AI took off. I=0At took a bit of coaxing, but I got up alright, and- =0Alanded at 4 differ=0Aent snow-covered grass stri ps. It was the same at- =0Aall strips...a bit =0Alonger than normal (most ski takeoffs take more- =0Arunway, I've read), b=0Aut doable. When I sto pped for lunch, I parked in- =0Amy own tracks, then =0A30 minutes later j ust rocked the plane a bit- =0Abefore fire-up, firewall=0Aed it, and away I went, taxiing to the- =0Arunway...slowly. I used up abo=0Aut 1100 feet of a crosswind, no-tracks- =0Arunway before giving up and tr=0Aying it o n a snowmobile-trodden runway- =0Ainto the wind. It still took a=0About 3 00 feet before it got off the- =0Aground due to the sticky snow con=0Adit ions.=0A=0AAn article I had read (National Research Council of Canada) t=0Aalked- =0Aabout "snow friction" in this way:=0A=0A"Early in the t ests, it=0Awas found that sliding resistance and- =0Aadhesion were far mo re depende=0Ant upon snow conditions than on the- =0Adesign of the ski. F urther, the s=0Akiing quality of the snow changed- =0Acontinually and it was not unusual =0Ato observe marked changes taking- =0Aplace in less tha n an hour. The publ=0Aication notes that there are- =0Atimes when the sli ding resistance of air=0Acraft skis is so great that- =0Ait is impossible to reach flying speed."=0A=0A=0AI'm having a blast test-flying my skis , and seeing first-hand how- =0A=0Asome of the writings that I studied wh ile building them have merit.=0A=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speed ster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 6=0A05 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46= 0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANew ski=0As done and flying= 0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Lynn=0AMatteson wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with either =0At he "X" or the- =0A> "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you a =0Apply the tape- =0A> from "under the front to over the back" or vice ve rsa=0A, there will- =0A> always be a wedge of space that wants to collect s debr=0Ais. It's just- =0A> harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've =0Acontented- =0A> myself with the "over the front to over the b ack" method.=0A...yes- =0A> it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space un derneath that c=0Aan eddy- =0A> air, but have we a really "clean" plane o therwise?=0A>=0A> =0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A- =0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taild=0Aragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair d=0Airect-fire ignition system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb =0A1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can=0Avisualize the X sys tem easy now...- =0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the bes=0At night of the week for me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a =0Alight hi nge on a model but a- =0A>> place for=0A>> grass and leaves etc. =0ATo catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a =0Acouple of pieces of say 2 1/2- =0A>> inch tape=0A>> sewn right down the m=0Aiddle and then one half of each tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizers=0Awith the other halves just finished to match the- =0A>> pla ne.- They=0A=0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'l l attach a=0A- =0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the t erm rough!=0A>>=0A=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________- Message 10=0A- ____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 03:19:35 PM PST US=0A=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Eleva=0Ator Gap Seal Test Report=0A =0A=0AI just tape up to the hinges, then tape ag=0Aain on the other sid e of- =0Athe hinge...all on the top-to-top surfaces..=0A.I'm gettin' too old to- =0Abend down and look under there, Bob. : )=0A=0A=0ALynn Matt eson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 6=0A05 hr s=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANew sk i=0As done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5 :57 PM, Bob =0ABrennan wrote:=0A=0A> =0A> =0A> I'm glad to see =0Asomeone else used the just-tape-over-the-top- = 0A> method. When=0A> this =0Atopic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover- =0A> pictur=0Ae of=0A> my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape=0A- =0A> on the=0A> top side of th e stabiliser gap, which was not there whe=0An I bought- =0A> the plane. =0A> I assume it was wide electrical tape whic=0Ah is *everywhere* on the - =0A> plane=0A> including the leading edges and =0Avertical stabiliser gap, and which- =0A> I am=0A> gradually replacing sin=0Ace it peels. =0A>=0A> I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had=0Aadmit ted- =0A> here to that=0A> simple method. I used a yellow duct tape=0Aa cross the entire topside- =0A> of the=0A> gaps, installed with the elev =0Aator fully down. With the elevator up- =0A> it tucks=0A> neatly into the =0Agap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it- =0A> would not =0A> accu=0Amulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges o n=0A> pre-flig=0Aht.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control=0A- =0A> authority on=0A> the short-field-over-t rees grass strip that I use=0A. Before sealing- =0A> the gap my=0A> slo west approach speed was determin=0Aed by when I started losing- =0A> pitc h control=0A> versus stall speed, w=0Ahich made it tough to flare properl y. Possibly- =0A> the=0A> under-camber=0Aed wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more- =0A> noticeable on=0A>=0Aa Model 2 than later Mode ls.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N717GB=0A> ELSA Repairm=0Aan, inspection ra ted=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 b=0Alade prop =0A> Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: =0Aowner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-s erver=0A@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A> Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 F ebruary 20=0A09 5:18 pm=0A> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: =0AElevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "gr ass catcher" is the proble=0Am with either the "X" or the "Z" (or=0A> "S" ) method of applying tape...whe=0Ather you apply the tape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vice=0Aversa, there will always be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects de=0Abris. It's just harder to get= 0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I've co=0Antented myself with the=0 A> "over the front to over the back" method....yes=0Ait's aerodynamically =0A> dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy ai=0Ar, but have we a =0A> really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diagrams =0Aare ver y understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A> Saturday?=0A: )=0A> =0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru =0A2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignitio=0An system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 P=0AM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon an d I can visualize the X s=0Aystem easy now...=0A>> Friday nights=0A>> n ot the best night of the week fo=0Ar me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X sys tem allows for a light hinge on a model=0Abut a=0A>> place for=0A>> gra ss and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thin=0Ag".=0A>>=0A>> What I wa s thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 =0A1/2=0A>> inch tape =0A>> sewn right down the middle and then one half of eac=0Ah tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just fi=0Anished t o match the=0A>> plane.- They=0A>> should be stiff enough to seal=0Athe gaps in flight.- I'll attach a=0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... =0Aemphasis on the term rough!=0A>>=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0 A_______________=0A_________________- Message 11- _________________________ ___________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:24:36 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Larry Hunt ley" =0A=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Sea l Test Report=0A=0A=0AI did th=0Aat with ski saver. Worked fin and no t too complicated for my brain. =0AI ca=0An make decent 3pt landings with the Soob on front and no =0Aflaps----Barely=0A, But it works.- - Larry 4 -1200 Soob=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A=0AFrom: "Bob Brennan " =0ASent: Sunday, Februar=0Ay 01, 2009 5:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repor=0At=0A=0A =0A> =0A>=0A> I'm glad to see someone el =0Ase used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0A> this topic came up a fe=0Aw months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture =0A> of=0A> my plane I h=0Aave for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on th e=0A> top side =0Aof the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bough t the =0A> plane.=0A=0A> I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane=0A=0A> including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I a=0Am=0A> gradually replacing since it peels .=0A>=0A> I was hesitant to post my=0Amethod since no one else had admi tted here to =0A> that=0A> simple method.=0AI used a yellow duct tape a cross the entire topside of the=0A> gaps, insta=0Alled with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it =0A> tucks=0A> n=0Aeatly into the g ap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not=0A=0A> accumula te anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0A>=0Apre-flig ht.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to=0Aco ntrol authority =0A> on=0A> the short-field-over-trees grass strip that =0AI use. Before sealing the gap =0A> my=0A> slowest approach speed wa s determ=0Ained by when I started losing pitch =0A> control=0A> versus stall speed, wh=0Aich made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the=0A> u nder-cambered wings =0Aand smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable =0A> on=0A> a Model 2 t=0Ahan later Models.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N 717GB=0A> ELSA Repairman, inspecti=0Aon rated=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop=0A=0A> Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0 A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox=0A-list-server@matro nics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.c=0Aom] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0A> To: k=0Aitfox- list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Te=0As t Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with either t he "X=0A" or the "Z" (or=0A> "S") method of applying tape...whether you a pply the t=0Aape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vice vers a, there will a=0Always be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects de bris. It's just hard=0Aer to get=0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I' ve contented myself with =0Athe=0A> "over the front to over the back" met hod....yes it's aerodynamicall=0Ay=0A> dirty, having a space underneath t hat can eddy air, but have we a=0A>=0Areally "clean" plane otherwise?=0 A>=0A> Your diagrams are very understanda=0Able, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Ma=0Atteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speed ster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A=0A> Sensenich 62x4 6=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> New ski=0As done and f lying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote=0A: =0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... =0A=0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the best night of the week for me;-). =0A>>=0A>> I=0Aagree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model b ut a=0A>> place fo=0Ar=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> What I=0Awas thinking at first was a couple of piece s of say 2 1/2=0A>> inch tape=0A=0A>> sewn right down the middle and th en one half of each tape doped to th=0Ae=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the=0A>> pl=0Aane.- They=0A>> should be s tiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'l=0Al attach a=0A>> couple of =0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough=0A!=0A>>=0A>> Noel =0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A------------------------------------------=0A--- -----------------------------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://w ww.=0Aavg.com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A=0A________________________________- M essage 12-=0A____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:00 :25 PM PST US=0AFr=0Aom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevato=0Ar Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANot lost j ust out of town until later last n=0Aight.=0A=0AWhat did you think of t he idea of using Velcro (just on the rudd=0Aer)- Would=0Amake it easy to clean and also easy to remove the rudder for=0Arepairs due to=0Ahangar ra sh.=0A=0AI'm going to try a gap seal this spring=0Awhen I get the plane out again.- At=0Aleast on the rudder to try to give=0Ame more authority for slips.- Those big=0Afloats hanging three feet or m=0Aore below the CG really want to right the=0Aplane.- So far I've been givi=0Ang full ruddr and controlling the slip with the=0Aailerons.- Even doing t=0Ahat the sl ip is more gentle than what I can get with=0Ano problems from a C=0A-172. =0A=0ANoel=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-l ist-s=0Aerver@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics. com] On Be=0Ahalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:48 PM=0ASubject: =0ARe: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0 A=0AThe "grass catcher" =0Ais the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of appl=0Aying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to over =0Athe back" or vice versa, there will alwa ys be a- =0Awedge of space that w=0Aants to collects debris. It's just ha rder to get- =0Aout of the "X" metho=0Ad. That's why I've contented mysel f with the- =0A"over the front to over =0Athe back" method....yes it's ae rodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space un=0Aderneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane otherw=0Aise?=0A=0AYour diagra ms are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - =0A- - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, =0Ataildragger=0AJab iru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair di=0Arect-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009 =0A, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can v isualiz=0Ae the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the be st night of =0Athe week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge o=0An a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and lea ves etc. To catch in the=0A"Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces =0Aof say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one =0Ahalf of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves just f=0Ainished to match the- =0A> pla ne.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to s=0Aeal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagra=0Ams... emphasis on the term Message 13- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0A=0ATime: 05 :05:11 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test=0ARep ort=0AFrom: "Lowlead" =0A=0A=0AI use a 3M 3372 poly=0Aurethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom=0A of the ga=0Ap (previous posts shown as >-=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onl ine here:=0A=0Ahtt=0Ap://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084# 228084=0A=0A=0AAttachment=0As: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/ /files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A=0A=0A______=0A__________________________- Message 14- _______________________________=0A_____=0A=0A=0ATime: 05: 30:02 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0A=0AThat's a good-looking job, LL.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, ta =0Aildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectr oair dire=0Act-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Lowlead wrote:=0A =0A>=0A> I use a 3M 3372 po=0Alyurethane surface protection tape applie d on- =0A> both top and bottom o=0Af the gap (previous posts shown as >- =0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online he=0Are:=0A>=0A> http://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A>=0A=0A>=0A> Attach ments:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_1=0A41.jpg =0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 15- __ =0A__________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:39:40 PM PST U S=0AFrom:=0A"Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Kitfox-List : Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0A=0AJust received this. Does it sound like the same material?- Larry=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: =0ASent: Sunda=0Ay, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM=0ASubjec t: Re: ski saver=0A=0A=0A>=0A> Yes,=0A=0A> check this link on our bags/racks page=0A> http://www.tognar.com/bags_rac=0Aks_boot_ski_binding _snowboard_accessory.html=0A> The top item is the scuff =0Asaver tape,= 0A> Thanks,=0A> Cat=0A> www.tognar.com=0A>=0A>=0A>> Do you stil =0Al have "ski saver" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A> Ye=0 A>=0A=0A=0A=0A------------------------------------------------------- -----------=0A--------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www.avg. com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 16- ______________________=0A______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:11:13 PM PST US=0AFrom: patrick reilly =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0ALar=0Ary=2C Thanks for the w eb link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on hand. Th=0A=0Aat price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many times I wante=0Ad s=0Aome of th at tape to protect paint on a car=2C motorcycle tank=2C =0Aetc. I'll =0Ause it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn Matteson top side only. =0ALynn =2C if that=0Acurls down into the gap=2C rather than up=2C I don' =0At know why anybody woul=0Ad use any other method.=0Ado not archive P at Reil=0AlyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: asq@roadrun=0Aner.co m> To: kitfo=0Ax-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver= 0A> Date: Sun=2=0AC 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > --> Kitfox-List message posted =0Aby: "Larry=0AHuntley" > > Just received thi s. Does it sou=0And like=0Athe same material? Larry> > ----- Original Mes sage ----- > From: > To: "Larry Huntley" > Sent: Sunday=2C =0A=0AFebruary 01=2C 2009 7:54 PM> Subje ct: Re: ski saver> > > >> > Yes=2C=0A> > che=0Ack this link on our bags /racks page> > http://www.tognar.com/bags=0A_racks_boo=0At_ski_binding_sn owboard_accessory.html> > The top item is the =0Ascuff saver t=0Aape=2C > > Thanks=2C> > Cat> > www.tognar.com> >> >> >> =0ADo you still have "s =0Aki saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com> > =0AYe> >> > > ---- --------=0A-------------------------------------------------=0A---------- ---------> > > >=0A=====> > > =0A=0A___________________=0A_ ____________- Message 17- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0A =0ATime: 06:50:23 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver=0AF rom: "=0AAKFLYERBOB" =0A=0A=0ALarry=0AW hat material are =0Ayou talking about?=0AI'm sure every one would like to know.=0ABob=0A=0A----=0A----=0ABob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska=0AKF Mod I and III=0A=0A=0ARead this top=0Aic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#2=0A28098=0A=0A=0A____ ____________________________- Message 18- ___________=0A___________________ ______=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:17:28 PM PST US=0AFrom: Rexinato=0Ar =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal T=0Aest Report=0A=0A=0AThat's exactly what I was trying to describe with my- =0A>-<- symbol and my =0Alittle drawn image file.- I agree with Lynn tha t =0Ait's a nice job. Can =0Ayou elaborate on how you applied so well?= 0A=0ARex=0A=0AColorado M2/582=0A=0A=0ALowlead wrote:=0A>=0A> I use a 3M 3372 polyureth=0Aane surface protection tape applied on both top and=0Abottom of the gap (pr=0Aevious posts shown as >-=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> http:=0A//forums.matronics.com/viewtopi c.php?p=228084#228084=0A>=0A>=0A> Attachme=0Ants: =0A> http://for ums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A>- =0A=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________- Message 19- ______________________=0A____________ __=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:18:50 PM PST US=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List:=0AF w: ski saver=0AFrom: John Bonewitz =0A=0AWe have a wi=0Anner! I'm going to order some of this stuff. There are probably=0A lots of o=0Ather uses besides gap seal.=0A=0AThanks,=0AJohn Bonewitz =0ASeries 5=0A=0AOn=0ASun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Larry Huntley wrote:=0A=0A=0A>=0A> Just received this. Does it sou nd like the same material?- Larry=0A=0A>=0A> ----- Original Message --- -- From: =0A> To: "Larr=0Ay Huntley" =0A> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM=0A=0A> Subject: Re: ski s aver=0A>=0A>=0A>> Yes,=0A>> check this link on our b=0Aags/racks pa ge=0A>> http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowb=0Aoard_ac cessory.html=0A>> The top item is the scuff saver tape,=0A>> Thanks,=0A =0A>> Cat=0A>> www.tognar.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>- Do you still have " ski save=0Ar" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A>>>=0A>> Ye= 0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A=0A>=0A> ------------------------------------------ ------------------------=0A--------------=0A>=0A>=0A> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A> 6:02 PM=0A=0A>=0A>=0A=0A________________ ________________- Message 20- ___________=0A_________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 11:08:00 PM PST US=0AFrom: Matt Dra=0Alle =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ=0A(Frequently As ked Questions)=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APlease read over t=0Ahe Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.- The=0Acomplete Ki =0Atfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afol lowin=0Ag URL:=0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.htm l=0A=0ATha=0Ank you,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Admi nistrator=0A=0A=0A[ Not=0Ae: This FAQ was designed to be displayed wi th a fixed width font such as=0A=0A- - 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- =0A- - - - - - smith@machine.domain.com=0A=0A- - - - - =0A- - - - sm ith@domain.com=0A=0A- Either email address syntax is al=0Aright, just b e sure that you configure=0A- your email application to matc=0Ah *exactly * the address you've subscibed to =0A- the List.=0A=0A=0A******=0A* *******************************=0A*** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** =0A=0A**************************************=0A=0A- Limited posting o f enclo=0Asures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets=0A- is supp orted on t=0Ahe Lists.- There are a number of restrictions, and these=0A- are detail=0Aed below.- Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the =0A- conten=0At of enclosures.=0A=0A- These are some of the features and limits of encl=0Aosures on the Matronics =0A- Lists:=0A=0A- 1) En closures will only be p=0Aosted to the Real Time version of the Lists.=0A =0A- 2) Enclosures will NO=0AT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.=0A=0A- 3) Enclosu=0Ares WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS For um Web site.=0A=0A- 4) Enclosures =0Awill NOT be appended to the Archiv es.=0A=0A- 5) Enclosures will NOT be av=0Aailable in the List Browse fe ature.=0A=0A- 6) Only the following file typ=0Aes and extensions will b e allowed:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - bmp=0Adoc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt x ls=0A=0A- - - All other enclosures =0Atypes will be rejected and email returned to=0A- - - sender.- The e=0Anclosure types listed above are rela tively safe from=0A- - - a virus =0Astandpoint and don't pose a particula rly large security risk.=0A=0A- 7) !=0A! All incoming enclosures will b e scanned for viruses prior to posting=0A=0A- - - to the List.- This is d one in real time and will not slow dow=0An=0A- - - the process of posting the message !!=0A=0A=0A- Here are =0Asome rules for posting enclosur es.- Failure to abide by these rules=0A=0A=0A- could result in the remo val of a subscriber's email address from the Li=0Asts.=0A=0A- 1) Pay at tention to what you are posting!!- Make sure that =0Athe files=0A- - - yo u are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB).=0A- Remember that there=0 A- - - are still people checking they're ema=0Ail via dial up modem.- If yo u post=0A- - - 30MB worth of pictures, =0Ayou are placing an unnecessary burden on these=0A- - - folks and the =0Arest of us, for that matter.=0 A=0A- 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!!- I d=0Aon't want to see huge 3000 x 2000=0A- - - pictures getting posted tha=0At are 3 or 4MB each.- This is just =0A- - - unacceptable.- Use a =0Aprogram such as Photoshop to scale the picture=0A- - - down to someth=0Aing on the order of 800 x 600 and tr y to keep the=0A- - - file size t=0Ao less-than 200KB, preferably much le ss.=0A=0A- - - Microsoft has a r=0Aeally awesome utility available for free that allows=0A- - - you to R=0Aight-Click on a picture in Explorer a nd automatically =0A- - - scale =0Ait down and resave it.- This is a grea t utility - get it, use it!=0A- =0A- - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp /downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.=0Amspx=0A- - - Look for the link "Image Resizer"=0A=0A- 3) !! This wo=0Auld seem to go without saying, but I'l l say it anyway.- Do not=0A- - =0A- post anything that would be considere d offensive by your grandmother.=0A=0A- - - And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything e=0Aven =0A- - - questionable. !!=0A=0A - 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post =0Aa 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 memb ers=0A- - - subscribed, your =0A1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times a mounting=0A- - - to 1MB X 10=0A00 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!!- BE CAREFUL and =0A- - - BE =0ACOURTEOUS!=0A=0A- Also see the section be low on the Matronics Photo and F=0Aile Share where=0A- you can have your files and photos posted on the Matr=0Aonics web server=0A- for long time viewing and availability.=0A=0A=0A****=0A***************=0A*** Dige st Mode ***=0A*******************=0A=0A- Each d=0Aay, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.=0A- T=0Ahis digest will contain the same information that is currently appended =0A=0A- to the ar chive file.- It has all of the headers except for the "From:=0A"=0A- and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator cons=0Aisting =0A- of a line of underscores.=0A=0A- Each day at 23:55 PST US, =0Ath e day's messages as described above will be=0A- combined and sent as a =0Asingle message to everyone on the digest email list.=0A=0A- To subsc ribe =0Ato the digest list, use the same subscription web form =0A- descr ibed abo=0Ave, and just select the Digest version of the List.=0A=0A- - - - =0A- - - - http://www.matronics.com/subscribe=0A=0A- Note that you *=0Acan* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions=0A- of t he Li=0Ast at the same time.- This is perfectly acceptable.=0A=0A- Now some cav=0Aeats:=0A=0A- * Messages sent to "kitfox-list-digest" will be forwarded to=0Athe standard=0A- - email list.- In other words, you canno t post mess=0Aages only to the=0A- - digest List.=0A=0A- * If you are subscribed to=0Aboth the regular List and the digest List, you=0A- - wil l receive the =0Arealtime postings as well as the digest at the end of=0A - - the day.=0A=0A=0A- * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded t=0Ao the=0A- - normal list associated with the digest .- Important Note:=0A- Please change=0A- - the subject line to reflect th e topic of your r=0Aesponse!- Also, please =0A- - *do not include all or most of the dige=0Ast in your reply*.=0A=0A=0A*********************** *****=0A*** List Digest B=0Arowser ***=0A**************************** =0A=0A- An archive of all the Li=0Ast Digests can be found online in ei ther plain text=0A- or HTML format.=0A- These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to=0A- the Di=0Agest email list on the given day.- The Digest Archives can be found=0A-=0Aat the following location: =0A =0A- - - - - - - - http://ww=0Aw.matronics.com/digest=0A=0A=0A***** ************************************=0A=0A*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Messag e Flag ***=0A*******************************=0A**********=0A=0A- At t imes, your message may concern something that is re=0Avelent only to a very =0A=0A- small number of persons or to a limited area=0A, and you may no t wish to archive=0A=0A- it.- In such a case, simply pu=0At the followi ng phrase anywhere in the =0A- message:=0A=0A- - - -=0A- - - - do not archive=0A=0A- Your message will not be appended =0Ato the archive, bu t will be sent to List =0A- email distribution as norma=0Al.=0A=0A= 0A**********************************************=0A***** READ THIS=0A- Au tomatic Unsubscribes *****=0A*****************************************=0A *****=0A=0A- Note that if your email address begins to cause problems s uc=0Ah as bounced=0A- email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your addr=0Aess will be promptly=0A- removed from the List.- If you discover that y=0Aou are no longer receiving=0A- messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the f=0Aollowing Web page, and look=0A- for your email address and a possible rea=0Ason for your removal.=0A=0A- The Matronics Email List us es utility called=0Athe "Email Weasel" that =0A- automatically looks thou gh the day's bounce=0Ad email for addresses that =0A- caused problems due to common things like=0A"user is unknown", "mailbox =0A- full", etc.- If the Email Weasel remo=0Aves your email address from the =0A- Lists you w ill find record of it at =0Athe following URL:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - htt p://www.matronic=0As.com/unsubscribed=0A=0A- If the problem listed on t he web site above has=0Abeen resolved, please feel =0A- free to resubscri be to the Lists of your=0Achoice.=0A=0A=0A*************************** ****=0A*** List Member Informat=0Aion ***=0A*************************** ****=0A=0A- If you have not done so =0Aalready, please email me your ph one numbers and =0A- paper mail address i=0An the following format:=0A =0A- - - - - - - - smith@somehost=0A.com=0A- - - - - - - - Joe Smith= 0A- - - - - - =0A- - 123 Airport Lane=0A- - - - - - - - Tower, CA 91234- =0A1234=0A- - - - - - - - 098-765-1234 w=0A- - - - -=0A- - - 123-456-78 90 h=0A=0A- Please forward this information to the=0Afollowing email ad dress:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - requests@mat=0Aronics.com=0A=0A- I have a file of such things, that I typically use to c=0Aontact you when =0A- there are problems with your email address.- The i=0Anformation will NOT =0A- be used for any other commercial purpose.=0A=0A=0A=0A********* *******************************=0A*** Realtime Web Email List B=0Arowsing ***=0A****************************************=0A=0A- Recent mess=0A ages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on=0A- the Web for =0Arealtime browsing.- Seven days worth of back postings are=0A- availabl =0Ae with this feature.- The messages can be sorted by Subject, =0A- Auth o=0Ar, Date, or Message Thread.- The Realtime List Browser indexes are =0 A-=0Aupdated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45.- You can also reply to a me ss=0Aage=0A=0A- or start a new message directly from the List Browser I nterfac=0Ae (coming soon).=0A- You do not have to be subscribed to the gi ven list t=0Ao use the List=0A- Browser Interface in view-mode.=0A=0A - - - - =0A- - - - http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list=0A=0 A=0A***=0A****************************************=0A*** Web Forums Bul letin Board In=0Aterface ***=0A****************************************** *=0A=0A- A phpBB =0ABBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfo x-List content.=0A- co=0Antent.- The Forums contain all of the same conte nt available via the emai=0Al=0A=0A- distribution and found on the vari ous archive viewing formats su=0Ach as the =0A- List Browse, etc.- Any po sts on the web Forums will be c=0Aross posted to the =0A- respective emai l List, and posts to the Email Lis=0At will be cross posted to =0A- the w eb Forums.=0A=0A- You may view all =0AList content on the Forums withou t any special login.=0A- If you wish to =0Apost a message via the Web For um interface, however, you=0A- will need to=0ARegister.- This is a simple process that takes only a few=0A- minutes.=0A- A link to the Registratio n page can be found at the top of the=0A- ma=0Ain web Forums page.- Note that registering on the Forum web site also=0A=0A- enables you to send em ail posts to the Lists as well.- You will also =0Aneed to=0A=0A- Subscr ibe to the respective Email List as described above =0Ato receive the=0A- Email Distribution of the List, however.=0A=0A- The =0AMatroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:=0A=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A****=0A***************** ************=0A*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***=0A*******=0A********** ****************=0A=0AIn an attempt to make it easy to store and =0Afin d structured and often accessed =0Ainformation, Matronics has installed =0Aa Wiki at:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://wiki.matronics.com=0A=0A= 0AThe Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful inf=0Ao rmation =0Afor other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an o r=0Adinary web page=0A=0Awhere the content needs to be submitted to Mat ronics f=0Aor inclusion, the Wiki =0Apermits the users to construct their own pages an=0Ad have them visible immediately.=0A=0AWhile constructin g pages for the Wiki=0Ais not difficult, some may not be =0Acomfortable b uilding pages.- In tha=0At case, simply prepare the text and any =0Aimage s and email it to:=0A=0A-=0A- - - - - - - wiki-support@matronics.com= 0A=0AOne of the vol=0Aunteers on that list will take your submission and construct =0Aa Wiki page=0Afor you.=0A=0AOften someone produces a par ticularly useful posting in emai=0Al one one of the =0ALists that would b e of general interest. In that case M=0Aatronics may take that =0Apost an d convert it into a Wiki page.=0A=0A=0A***=0A******************=0A* ** List Archives ***=0A*********************=0A=0A-=0AA file containi ng of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is=0A=0A- available on line.- The archive file information is available via the=0A=0A- Web a nd FTP in a number of forms.- Each are briefly described bel=0Aow:=0A=0 A=0A- * Kitfox-List.FAQ =0A=0A- - - - - - - Latest ve=0Arsion of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question =0A- - - - - =0A- - page (this docu ment).=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete =0A=0A=0A- - - - - - - Complete file with most of the email header in=0Afo removed and =0A- - - - - - - page breaks inserted between =0Amessages.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Ar chive.digest.vol-??- =0A=0A- - - - =0A- - - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that =0A=0A- - - - - - - can more easily h andled.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-A=0Archive.digest.complete.zip =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Kitf=0Aox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but =0A - - - - - - - i=0An PKZIP format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A =0A- * Kitfox-Ar=0Achive.digest.complete.Z =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same a s the Kitfox-=0AArchive.digest.complete file above, but in =0A- - - - - - - U=0ANIX compress format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A =0A- Dow=0Anload Via FTP=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archive fi le is available=0Avia anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com=0A- in the "/p ub/Archives" dire=0Actory.- It is updated daily and can be found in=0A- a number of formats=0Aas described above. (All filenames are case sensitive. )=0A=0A- - - =0A- - - - - - ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives=0A =0A=0A- Do=0Awnload Via Web=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archi ves are also availa=0Able via a web listing.- These can be found=0A- towa rd the bottom of the=0Afollowing web page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http: //www.ma=0Atronics.com/archives=0A=0A=0A***************************** *************=0A*=0A** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***=0A******* ************************=0A***********=0A=0A- All messages posted to th e Kitfox-List are also availa=0Able using the=0A- Email List Archive Brow sing feature.- With this utili=0Aty, all messages=0A- in the List are ind exed, and individual sub-archives=0Acan be browsed.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matron=0Aics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox=0A=0A =0A**************************=0A***************=0A**** High-Speed Archi ve Search Engine ***=0A*************=0A****************************=0A =0A- You can use the custom, high-performa=0Ance Matronics Email List Sea rch Engine=0A- to quickly locate and browse a=0Any messages that have bee n posted to the=0A- List.- The Engine allows t=0Ahe user to easily search any of the currently=0A- available List archives=0A.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/search=0A=0A=0A=0A****************** **********=0A*** File and Photo Share ***=0A****=0A******************** ****=0A=0A- With the Matronics Email List File and Ph=0Aoto Share you c an share pictures=0A- and other data with members of the L=0Aist without having to forward a =0A- copy of it to everyone.- To share =0Ayour Files and Photos, simply email =0A- them to:=0A=0A- - - - =0A- - - - - pict ures@matronics.com=0A=0A- !! ==> Please inclu=0Ading the following information with each submission:=0A=0A- - - - =0A- - - - - 1) Email Li sts that they are related to.=0A- - - =0A- - - - - - 2) Your Full Name. =0A- - - - - - - =0A- - 3) Your Email Address.=0A- - - - - - - - - 4) O ne=0Aline Subject description.=0A- - - - - - - - - 5) Multi-l=0Aine, mult i-paragraph description of topic.=0A- - - - - - - =0A- - 6-x) One-line De scription of each photo or file=0A=0A- Prior to p=0Aublic availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned=0A- for =0Aviruses.- Please also note that the process of making the files and=0A-=0Aphotos availabl e on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to=0A=0A- process them every few days.=0A=0A- Following the availability of =0Athe new P hotoshare, an email message will be=0A- sent to the Email Lists =0Aenumer ated in 1) above indicating that the new=0A- Share is available and=0Awha t the direct URL to it is.=0A=0A- For a current list of available Pho =0Atoshares, have a look at the Main=0A- Index Page:=0A=0A- - - - =0A - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/photoshare=0A=0A=0A***********=0A* **************=0A*** List Archive CDROM ***=0A************************* *=0A=0A=0A- A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available tha t cont=0Aains=0A- all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists.-=0AThe archives=0A- for all of the Lists are included on the CD al ong with =0Aa freeware search=0A- engine written by a list member.- The C D is burne=0Ad the day you order it=0A- and will contain archive received - up to the=0Alast minute.- They make =0A- great gifts!=0A=0A- - - - - -=0A- - - http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM=0A=0A=0A*********** *****=0A******************=0A*** List Support Contributions ***=0A***** ************=0A*****************=0A=0A- The Matronics Lists are run *co mpletely* through=0Athe support of it members.=0A- You won't find any Pop UpAds, flashing Ban=0Aner ads, or any other form of=0A- annoying commerci alism on either the Em=0Aail Messages or the List web pages=0A- associate d with the Matronics Emai=0Al Lists.- Every year during November=0A- I ru n a low-key, low-pressure =0A"Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,=0 A- I ask List members to make=0Aa Contribution in any amount with which the y =0A- are comfortable.=0A=0A=0A- I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during t=0Ahe=0A- Fund Raiser to increase the participation.- The gifts are usuall=0Ay donated=0A- by companies that a re themselves List members.=0A=0A- You=0Ar Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists=0A- =0Aincluding the high-speed, b usiness-class Internet connection, server=0A- =0Asystem hardware and soft ware upgrades, and to partially offset the many=0A=0A- many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the=0A=0A- variety of se rvices found here.=0A=0A- Generally Contributions ran=0Age from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary=0A- and non-compulsory.=0A- I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains=0A- value from=0Athem, that t hey make a Contribution of equal magnitude.=0A=0A- Contribut=0Aions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just =0A- subscribed=0A, fee l free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.=0A=0A- The web=0A site for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.- There are=0A =0A- a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, an d=0A=0A- sending a personal check.=0A=0A- If you enjoy and value the List, =0Awon't you make a Contribution today to=0A- support its continued operatio=0An?=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/contri =0Abutions=0A=0A- Thank you!=0A- Matt Dralle=0A- Email List Adminis trato=0Ar=0A=0A=0A*************************************************** **************=0A*************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage G =0Auidelines=0A********************************************************** *****=0A***************=0A=0AThe following details the official Usage G uidelines fo=0Ar the Kitfox-List.=0AYou are encouraged to read it careful ly, and to abide =0Aby the rules therein.=0AFailure to use the Kitfox-Lis t in the manner descri=0Abed below may result =0Ain the removal of the su bscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0A=0AKitfox-List Policy Statement=0A =0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-List is t=0Ao provide a forum of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular dis=0Acussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resourc=0Ae to its members; to del iver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral suppo=0Art; to foster camar aderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operatio=0An.- Reaching t hese goals =0Arequires the participation and cooperation of=0Aeach and ev ery member of =0Athe List.- To this end, the following guidel=0Aines have been established:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep all posts related to the =0A List at some level.- Do not submit=0A- posts concerning computer viruse =0As, urban legends, random humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc=0A. etc.=0A=0A- THINK carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your pos=0At will be=0A- relevant to everyone.- If you have to wonder abo ut that, =0ADON'T send it.=0A=0A- Remember that your post will be inclu ded for posterit=0Ay in an archive=0A- that is growing in size at an extr aordinary rate.- =0ATry to be concise and=0A- terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and =0Alengthy posts and=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep you r signature brief.- Ple=0Aase include your name, email address,=0A- aircr aft type/tail number, and =0Ageographic location.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the build=0Aing process is also nice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character gr=0Aaphics; they consume unnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T p=0Aost requests to the List for informat ion when that info is=0A- easily obt=0Aainable from other widely availabl e sources.- Consult the=0A- web page =0Aor FAQ first.=0A=0A- If you w ant to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject=0A:" line of=0A- your resp onse the same as that of the original post.- Th=0Ais makes it=0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When respondi=0Ang, NEVER quote th e *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- DO us=0Ae lines from the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the to=0Apic at hand, b ut be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire =0Aoriginal post has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated!=0A=0A=0A- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT=0A=0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the=0A=0A- "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your=0A=0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to actively addre=0Ass= 0A- your response with the original poster's email address.=0A=0A- DO =0ANOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something=0A- to ad=0Ad that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- "Way to go!", "I=0A- ag ree"=0A, and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent=0A- to the=0Aoriginal poster directly, rather than to the List at large.=0A =0A- When re=0Asponding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment=0Aon every last point in their posts, unless you can trul y=0A- contribute =0Asomething valuable.=0A=0A- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT=0Akeep your tone=0A- polite and respectful.- D on't make snide comments, =0Apersonally attack=0A- other listers, or take the moral high ground on an =0Aobviously=0A- controversial issue.- This will only cause a pointless de=0Abate that=0A- will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A=0A- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- su=0Abscribed to a given List are con sidered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List=0Amembers promoting their respect ive products or items for sale =0A- shoul=0Ad be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typic=0Aal SPAM message.- The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about=0Asharing information and k nowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, inc=0Aluding those who provide products to the entire =0A- community.- Inform=0Aal presentation and mode ration should be the =0A- operatives with respect=0Ato advertising on the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an automated po=0Asting.] =0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Me s=0Asage 21- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:25 :19 PM P=0AST US=0AFrom: Matt Dralle =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Of=0Aficial Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines=0A=0A=0ADear Li sters,=0A=0APlease read =0Aover the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. - The complete=0AKitfox-List =0AFAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowing URL:=0A=0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/F AQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html=0A=0AThank you=0A,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMa tronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A***********=0A************** *****************************************************=0A- =0A- - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines=0A********=0A************************* *********************************************=0A=0A=0AThe following det ails the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List.=0A=0AYou are enco uraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules there=0Ain.=0AFail ure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may resu=0Alt =0 Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0AKitfox-List =0APolicy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum =0Aof discussion for=0Athings related to this particular discussi on group.- =0AThe List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resource to its members; =0Ato deliver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral su pport; to foster cama=0Araderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operation.- Reaching the=0Ase goals =0Arequires the participation and coo peration of each and every me=0Amber of =0Athe List.- To this end, the fo llowing guidelines have been est=0Aablished:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep al l posts related to the List at some level=0A.- Do not submit=0A- posts co ncerning computer viruses, urban legends, =0Arandom humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.=0A=0A- THIN=0AK carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your post will be=0A- re=0Alevant to everyone.- I f you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A=0A=0A- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive=0A=0A- that is gr owing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try to be conci=0Ase and=0A- ter se in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts a=0And=0A- respon ses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Please include you=0Ar name, em ail address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geographic loca=0Ation.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the building process is =0Aalso n ice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character graphics; they co=0Ansume unnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T post requests to =0Athe List for information when that info is=0A- easily obtainable from ot=0Aher widely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page or FAQ first .=0A=0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" li ne of=0A=0A- your response the same as that of the original post.- This m akes it=0A=0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When respo nding, NEVER q=0Auote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- D O use lines fro=0Am the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the topic at hand=0A, but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original po=0Ast has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be o verstated!=0A=0A- When=0Athe poster asks you to respond to him/her pers onally, DO NOT=0A- then go=0Aahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the=0A- "reply" b=0Autton on your mail package does not necessar ily send your=0A- response to=0Athe original poster.- You might have to a ctively address=0A- your resp=0Aonse with the original poster's email add ress.=0A=0A- DO NOT use the List t=0Ao respond to a post unless you hav e something=0A- to add that is relevant=0Aand has a broad appeal.- "Way t o go!", "I=0A- agree", and "Congratulat=0Aions" are all responses that ar e better sent=0A- to the original poster d=0Airectly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When responding to others=0A' posts, avoid the fe eling that you need to=0A- comment on every last poi=0Ant in their posts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valuable=0A.=0A=0A- Fe el free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone=0A=0A- poli te and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack=0A=0A- o ther listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously=0A- c=0Aontro versial issue.- This will only cause a pointless debate that=0A- w=0Aill hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A- Occasional p =0Aosts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- subscribed to a giv=0Aen List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members prom otin=0Ag their respective products or items for sale =0A- should be of a friendl=0Ay, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typical SPAM message.=0A- The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about shari ng informa=0Ation and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, includin g those who=0Aprovide products to the entire =0A- community.- Informal pr esentation =0Aand moderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect t o advertising =0Aon the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an a utomated posting.]=0A=0Ado =0A============= ============0A=0A=0A=0A- - - =0A=0A______ __________________________- Message 3- ________________________________ _____=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:55:05 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver- - AKFLYERBOB=0A=0A =0A- - - -Equipment protection-=0A=0A=0A- - - SKUFF SAVER Item #TYC 7210=0A- - - $2.95 per foot=0A=0A- - - Protect the tops of your new skis or snowboard from scratches and =0Agouges. This clear tough Dupont Surlyn tape is backed with a self-adhesive =0Afilm for easy applicat ion and good bonding. It's 14" wide...enough to span =0Aany single snowboar d or pair of skis and is sold by the linear foot. Simply =0Aorder the lengt h you need and trim the width with scissors to fit your =0Aneeds.- - Qu antity:=0A=0A-------------------------------------------------------------- ------------=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "AKFLYERBOB" =0ASent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:49 PM=0ASubje ct: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver=0A=0A=0A> =0A> =0A> Larry=0A> What material are you talking about?=0A> I'm sure every one would like to know.=0A> Bob=0A>=0A> --------=0A> Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alask a=0A> KF Mod I and III=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> htt p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#228098=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A____________ ____________________- Message 4- _____________________________________ =0A=0A=0ATime: 06:02:37 AM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0AI think- the amount of "curl down" can be controlled by the amount- =0Athat you press down betw een the tubes themselves....simply press more- =0Ainto the gap before pre ssing onto the tubes and it should stay there.- =0AI usually just lay it over the gap equally spaced on both sides and- =0Apress it down. I didn't get too worried about whether it went up or- =0Adown, although down woul d be preferred.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJab iru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignitio n system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 9:08 PM, pat rick reilly wrote:=0A=0A> Larry, Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on- =0A> hand. That price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many- =0A> times I wanted some of that tape to protect paint o n a car,- =0A> motorcycle tank, etc. I'll use it on the gap seal, Alla Ly nn- =0A> Matteson top side only. Lynn, if that curls down into the gap, - =0A> rather than up, I don't know why anybody would use any other metho d.=0A> do not archive=0A>=0A> Pat Reilly=0A> Mod 3 582 Rebuild=0A> Rockford , IL=0A>=0A>=0A> > From: asq@roadrunner.com=0A> > To: kitfox-list@matronics .com=0A> > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A> > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500=0A> >=0A> =0A> >=0A> > Just received thi s. Does it sound like the same material? Larry=0A> >=0A> > ----- Original M essage -----=0A> > From: =0A> > To: "Larry Huntley" =0A> > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM=0A> > Subject: Re: ski saver=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > >=0A> > > Yes,=0A> > > check this link on our bags/racks page=0A> > > http://www.tognar.com/ =0A> bags_racks_boot_ski _binding_snowboard_accessory.html=0A> > > The top item is the scuff saver t ape,=0A> > > Thanks,=0A> > > Cat=0A> > > www.tognar.com=0A> > >=0A> > >=0A> > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley- =0A> asq@roadrun ner.com=0A> > > Ye=0A> > >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >- =0A> ---------------------- ------------------------------------------------ =0A> ----------=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A> > 6:02 PM==== ==================0A> >====== ============0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A>=0A> ===== ===== _- =0A> ================= ================== _- =0A> contribution _- =0A> ====================== =============0A=0A=0A______________________________ __- Message 5- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:0 1:09 AM PST US=0AFrom: Catz631@aol.com=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0ANoel,=0AIf you are gap sealing your rudder,John McBean has a very nice contoured =0Ahard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizontal=0A=0As tab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber tape. I painted it and it looks n ice=0A..=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pensacola,Fl=0A **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to =0Astocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)=0A =0A________________________________- Message 6- _______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:03:47 AM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0AFrom: "lowflyer" =0A=0A =0AGuys,=0A=0APlease take a look at the following website.=0A=0Ahttp://www. aerographic.com/gap_seal.htm=0A=0A=0AThese gap seals are used on Pitts and Eagle aircraft. They have been used on many=0Aothers as well.- There not too expensive, easy to install and they are removable=0Aand should last a l ong, long time!- You can cut to length for your application=0Aand for fit ting around hinges. My buddy uses them on his beautiful Pitts=0AS2B.- I w ill probably be getting some soon.=0A=0AChris Budd=0AN53RJ Kitfox IV Speeds ter=0AVW 2180 240hrs=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228155#228155=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 7- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 07:05:18 AM PST US=0AFrom: Catz631@AOL.COM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-L ist: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0ALowlead,=0AThat looks like an "X" j ob and a good one at that. I will have to try that =0Awhen mine peels off. =0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pensacola,Fl=0A**************Stay up to date on th e latest news - from sports scores to =0Astocks and so much more. (http://a ol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022)=0A=0A________________________________ - Message 8- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:34: 43 AM PST US=0AFrom: Rexinator =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox- List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI think had a small sample sheet of this material back in 1984 which I =0Aused to protect the front of a "chin" fairing on my Honda Interceptor. =0AIt had the characteristics yo u describe, clear, very tough, designed for =0Aprotecting front of sporty c ars paint from small rock chips.=0A=0ARex=0AColorado M2/582=0Ado not archiv e=0A=0A=0ALowlead wrote:=0A>=0A> Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the=0Aentire length of the gap, but it's no t. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard=0Aends due to the way the ti ghtened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames.=0A=0A>=0A> Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about=0Athis t ape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive=0Aat first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) w ith=0Aa very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tub es.=0AThen the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I u sed a pc=0Aof 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE /TE tubes. The=0Atwo tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a t riangular 'bubble'=0Arunning the entire length . I used a wooden tongue dep ressor and fingers to press=0Athe top and bottom tapes together to eliminat e the bubble. (see attached).=0AIt's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's=0Ano worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor.=0A>=0A> The control surface (elevator o r rudder) must be in the neutral position when=0Atape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation=0A(ex: rudder now pull s left or right due to tape..)=0A> Hope this makes sense...=0A>=0A> Dan H. =0A>=0A>=0A> rexinator wrote:=0A>- =0A>> That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my- >-<- symbol and my =0A>> little drawn image file. - I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can =0A>> you elaborate on how you applied so well?=0A>>=0A>> Rex=0A>> Colorado M2/582=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> - - =0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A> http://forums.mat ronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125=0A>=0A>=0A> Attachments: =0A>=0A > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A>- =0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 9- _______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:34:43 AM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: air worthiness=0AFrom: "dcsfoto" =0A=0A=0AA DAR with the c orrect function code can issue a replacement.=0AAll you need is to have him look in the FAA files (cost us $3.00) obtain the info=0Afrom the original. =0Ado a letter requesting a replacement.=0A=0ADavid=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228163#228 163=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 10- _____________ _______________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:41:55 AM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox- List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0AFrom: "darinh" =0A=0A=0AJohn,=0A=0AAs some have said, use the 3M clear product.- I w ould bet you can find a car accessory=0Ashop that applies the "clear bra" t o cars and they will sell you this=0Astuff by the foot.- I found several local places that had it in widths of 6",=0A12", 24", etc.- I bought the 24" wide stuff and cut it to the length and width=0AI needed for the intend ed use.- I also applied it to the top side and wrapped=0Ait around the fr ont of my landing gear for protection and to the front of the=0Astruts for about the first 4' from the fuse.=0A=0AThe product is very tough, UV resist ant and crystal clear...the adhesive works=0Aperfectly on painted surfaces and can be applied using a shot or two of Windex=0Aand a small squeegee to remove any air bubbles=0A=0A--------=0ADarin Hawkes=0ASeries 7 =0A914 Turbo =0AKaysville, Utah=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums. matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228179#228179=0A=0A=0A_____________________ ___________- Message 11- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0AT ime: 10:54:57 AM PST US=0AFrom: "George Wells" =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver=0A=0ADidn't you guys see my post fro m 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my =0Ause of Ski Saver Tape and wher e to get it ??=0AGeorge=0A=0A________________________________- Message 12 - ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:58:02 PM PST US =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox owner location map=0AFrom: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." =0A=0A=0AHere's a great resource=0A=0Ahttp://www. frappr.com/kitfox=0A=0AIt's a dynamic push pin map with information about e ach Kitfox. It covers the whole=0Aworld. This has Kitfoxen not just from th e mail list but everyone.=0A=0APut your push pin on the map!=0A=0AIf everyo ne did, you'd be able to find others in your area easily.=0A=0A--------=0AP aul A. Franz, P.E.=0ARegistration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT=0AEngine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP=0ABellevue WA=0A425.241.1618 Cell=0A425.440.9505 Office =0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/view topic.php?p=228237#228237=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Mes sage 13- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 04:45:12 PM P ST US=0AFrom: patrick reilly =0ASubject: RE: Kitfo x-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal- Test=0AReport=0A =0A=0ADick=2C Great picture of the tail of your plane. But=2C I'll be d amned if I=0Acan see any gap seal. I Like your TR3 also.=0Ado not archivePa t ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL=0A=0A=0AFrom: Catz631@aol.comDate : Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 09:57:11 -0500Subject: Re: Kit=0Afox-List: Elevator G ap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test ReportTo: kit=0Afox-list@matronic s.com=0ANoel=2C=0AIf you are gap sealing your rudder=2CJohn McBean has a very nice contoured=0Ahard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizo=0Antal stab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber t ape. I painted it and it l=0Aooks nice .=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pensacola=2CFl=0A=0AStay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu=0Ach more.=0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 14- ____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 05:09:11 PM PST US=0AFrom: patrick reilly =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0ALynn=2C Didn't you sa y you have elavator at full down and then apply tape. =0AThis wouldn't requ ire any pushing tape into groove. Or would having some ta=0Ape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into the groove when eleva=0Ator was rais ed?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jp=0As.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 08:=0A58 :20 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message poste =0Ad by: Lynn Matteson > > I think the amount of "curl do wn"=0Acan be controlled by the amount > that you press down between the tub es th=0Aemselves....simply press more > into the gap before pressing onto t he tubes=0Aand it should stay there. > I usually just lay it over the gap e qually spa=0Aced on both sides and > press it down. I didn't get too worrie d about wheth=0Aer it went up or > down=2C although down would be preferr ed.> > Lynn Mattes=0Aon> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200 =2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Se=0Ansenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire igniti on system> New skis done and fl=0Aying> > > > > On Feb 1=2C 2009=2C at 9:08 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > =0ALarry=2C Thanks for the web li nk. I ordered 5 feed just to have on > > hand=0A. That price for 14" wide c lear tape is unreal. There are many > > times I =0Awanted some of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C > > motorcycle tank=0A=2C etc. I'll use i t on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn > > Matteson top side onl=0Ay. Lynn=2C i f that curls down into the gap=2C > > rather than up=2C I don't=0Aknow why anybody would use any other method.> > do not archive> >> > Pat R=0Aeil ly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> >> >> >> >> > > From: asq@roa =0Adrunner.com> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: Kitfox-List : F=0Aw: ski saver> > > Date: Sun=2C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > >> > > --> Kitf=0Aox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" > > > > >> >=0A> Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? L arry> > >> > =0A> ----- Original Message -----> > > From: > > > To: "Larry=0AHuntley" > > > Sent: Sunday=2C Feb ruary 01=2C 2009 7:5=0A4 PM> > > Subject: Re: ski saver> > >> > >> > > >> > > > Yes=2C> > > > chec=0Ak this link on our bags/racks page> > > > htt p://www.tognar.com/ > > bags_r=0Aacks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory. html> > > > The top item is the s=0Acuff saver tape=2C> > > > Thanks=2C > > > > Cat> > > > www.tognar.com> > > >=0A> > > >> > > >> Do you still hav e "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley > > asq@r=0Aoadrunner.com> > > > Ye> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > -------------------------=0A-------------------------- ------------------- > > ----------> > >> > >> > >=0A> > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com> > > 6:02 PM========0A====== =========> > >=========0A===== =====> > >> > >> > >> >> > ========0A=== _- > > ====================0A==== ============ _- > > contribution_- > > =0A=== =====================> _=0A== > > > =0A=0A________________________________- Message 15- _____________ _______________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:27:16 PM PST US=0AFrom: Malcolm Br ubaker =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox- broken motor mount=0A=0Athe mount broke Ware it attaches to the vibration dampene r on the rear pass=0Aenger side on my mod 2 w/582- 170 hrs airframe has thi s happened to anybo=0Ady? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder - - malcolm=0A=0A--- On Mon, 2/2/09, George Wells wrote:=0AFrom: George Wells =0ASubje ct: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver=0A=0A=0ADidn't you guys see my post from 1 o r 2 days ago =0Awhere I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape-and where to get it =0A??=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A- - - =0A=0A____________ ____________________- Message 16- ____________________________________ =0A=0A=0ATime: 05:44:07 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Posting videos=0A From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" =0A=0A=0AMaintaining vid eo quality when posting is somewhat of a problem with YouTube. I=0Adiscover ed this site which has few if any ads and the video quality is excellent. =0A=0A=0A=0AThe format is very nice with thum bnail images and a nice indexing scheme.=0A=0A-- =0APaul A. Franz=0ARegistr ation/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT=0AEngine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP=0ABellev ue WA=0A425.241.1618 Cell=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Messa ge 17- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:39:27 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox- broken motor mount=0A=0AJust a thought... I think after weld ing the joint has to be normalized to=0Aprevent it from cracking in the joi nt again.=0A=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com =0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm=0AB rubaker=0ASent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:28 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: R e: Kitfox broken motor mount=0A=0A=0Athe mount broke Ware it attaches to th e vibration dampener on the rear=0Apassenger side on my mod 2 w/582- 170 hrs airframe has this happened to=0Aanybody? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder- - malcolm=0A=0A--- On Mon, 2/2/09, George We lls wrote:=0A=0AFrom: George Wells =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver=0A=0ADidn't you guy s see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use=0Aof Ski Sav er Tape and where to get it ??=0A=0AGeorge=0A=0A=0AD======= ==================0A======= ===0AD===================== ====0A==========0AD========== ===============0A==========0A D======================== =0A==========0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 18- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:55:33 P M PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets=0AFrom: "clemwehne r" =0A=0A=0AMy flaperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs before the=0Awing was covered. Now that t he wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit=0Aflat onto the wing withou t putting considerable stress on the rivets at the rear=0Aof the bracket. - This is because the wing trailing edge is now thicker because=0Aof the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo.=0A=0AAny suggestions on w hat to do.- I can push hard and press the bracket down on to=0Athe wing s urface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket.- Any ideas? =0A=0A=0Athanks for the help,=0A=0A--------=0AClem Wehner=0ATulsa, OK=0AKit fox IV-912=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronic s.com/viewtopic.php?p=228263#228263=0A=0A=0AAttachments: =0A=0Ahttp://for ums.matronics.com//files/img_4120_191.jpg=0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______- Message 19- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:02:23 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0AI put my tape on at- full down, yes, and like you observed, just- =0Ahaving a little "down into" radius will a ssure that it stays there- =0Awhen the 'vator is raised. I may try to app ly some from the bottom- =0Aside with the 'vator held up, and see how tha t works...along with the- =0Atop being covered.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitf ox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x4 6=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 2, 2009, at 8:06 PM, patrick reilly wrote:=0A=0A > Lynn, Didn't you say you have elavator at full down and then apply- =0A > tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would- =0A > having some tape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into- =0A> the groove when elevator was raised?=0A>=0A> Pat Reilly=0A> Mod 3 582 Rebuild=0A> Rockford, IL=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________ - Message 20- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:20: 15 PM PST US=0AFrom: patrick reilly =0ASubject: RE : Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0ALynn=2C I was also wondering how cov ering both sides with your method of fu=0All elevator up and down would wor k. I'm not to that stage yet. As a matter =0Aof fact I received today the R AC servo from ACS to use with Lowell Fitts tr=0Aim tab kit. So=2C I will be tearing my elevator apart.- Have you got a trim=0Atab on the elevator? Or=2C do you use the Flaperons to trim?Pat ReillyMod =0A3 582 RebuildRoc kford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-Li=0Ast: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 22:01:43 -0500> To: kitfox-list@=0A@jps.n et>> > I put my tape on at full down=2C yes=2C and like you observed=0A =2C just > having a little "down into" radius will assure that it stays t he=0Are > when the 'vator is raised. I may try to apply some from the botto m > s=0Aide with the 'vator held up=2C and see how that works...along wit h the > to=0Ap being covered.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C ta ildragger> Jabi=0Aru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electro air direct-fire igniti=0Aon system> New skis done and flying> do not archiv e> > > > On Feb 2=2C 2009=0A=2C at 8:06 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn=2C Didn't you say you hav=0Ae elavator at full down and then app ly > > tape. This wouldn't require any =0Apushing tape into groove. Or woul d > > having some tape pushed into groove =0Ainsure the tape would curl int o > > the groove when elevator was raised?> >=0A========= => > > =0A=0A________________________________- Message 21- __________ __________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:33:19 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Ma tteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A =0AFactory-built trim tab with RAC servo. Using the flaperons for trim- =0Aslows the plane down, which is why one of the Speedster mods was the- =0Aelectric trim.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJ abiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignit ion system=0ANew skis done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 2, 20 09, at 10:19 PM, patrick reilly wrote:=0A=0A> Lynn, I was also wondering ho w covering both sides with your method- =0A> of full elevator up and down would work. I'm not to that stage yet.- =0A> As a matter of fact I recei ved today the RAC servo from ACS to use- =0A> with Lowell Fitts trim tab kit. So, I will be tearing my elevator- =0A> apart.- Have you got a tri m tab on the elevator? Or, do you use the- =0A> Flaperons to trim?=0A>=0A > Pat Reilly=0A> Mod 3 582 Rebuild=0A> Rockford, IL=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A_______ _________________________- Message 22- ________________________________ ____=0A=0A=0ATime: 07:46:51 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaperon hinge brackets=0AFrom: "Tom Jones" =0A=0A=0A=0A> My fl aperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs before=0A the wing was covered. Now that the wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit=0Aflat onto the wing without putting considerable stress on the rivets at the=0Arear of the bracket. This is because the wing trailing edge is no w thicker because=0Aof the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo . =0A> =0A> Any suggestions on what to do. I can push hard and press the br acket down on=0Ato the wing surface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket. Any ideas?=0A=0A=0AClem, The builder's manual says to fit and drill first then cover as you have done.=0AMine were a tight fit too. =0A =0AI set the flaperon in place then installed and tightened the hinge bolts to take=0Athe stress off the rear rivet before I squeezed the brackets tig ht to the rib=0Awith one hand and riveted with the other hand.=0A=0AThe rea r bracket rivets have held fine.- I have had the flaperons off a couple =0Atimes and the bracket bolt holes in the brackets line up perfect when I reinstall=0Athe flaperons.- Also the bracket to rib rivets are holding ti ght.=0A=0AI rib laced and put no rib lacing reinforcement tape or rib finis h tape under the=0Abrackets.=0A=0A--------=0ATom Jones=0AClassic IV=0A503 R otax, 72 inch Two blade Warp=0AEllensburg, WA=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onlin e here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228274#228274=0A ===================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:04 AM PST US From: "Ed Gray" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 Now putting together the panel for my KII-582, and hope to see some of you at OSH. I am considering panel mount coms by Flightline 760 (real bargain but no factory support), XCom, MicroAire and Becker. Does anyone have input or history of the Flightline com? Ed Gray, Dallas, KII building 214 734 2524, do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 1:59 AM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 2009-02-01&Archive=Kitfox =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/01/09: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:38 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@aol.com) 2. 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Noel Loveys) 3. 11:09 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Noel Loveys) 4. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson) 5. 12:02 PM - Kitfox with rotax fuel injection (jason Parker) 6. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Randy Daughenbaugh) 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson) 8. 03:02 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Bob Brennan) 9. 03:13 PM - Ski report/snow conditions (Lynn Matteson) 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson) 11. 03:24 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Larry Huntley) 12. 05:00 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Noel Loveys) 13. 05:05 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lowlead) 14. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lynn Matteson) 15. 05:39 PM - Fw: ski saver (Larry Huntley) 16. 06:11 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (patrick reilly) 17. 06:50 PM - Re: ski saver (AKFLYERBOB) 18. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Rexinator) 19. 09:18 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (John Bonewitz) 20. 11:08 PM - Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 21. 11:25 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:03 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report That foam weather striping sounds like a good idea. You could further refine this by putting a strip of teflon antichafe tape on the other side of the weather striping foam(oposite the adhesive side) or on the elevator leading edge for that mater. This stuff is real slick and I bought a roll of it from Spruce as a cowling chafe tape a while back. It works real well. Only thing is, in the heat the adhesive on weather strip tends to give way into a goo. That sailplane tape looks interesting also Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl. **************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay up-to-date with the latest news. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:06 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side only with good old 1 in. Velcro. Another thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator and rudder with the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when you remove the seal you don't disturb the dope under it. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Good idea, but I'm from the camp that always wants to be able to take something apart if a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed through the elevator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevator, and maybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process, by far, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller Design wrote: > > > You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the > middle and dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator. > > Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start > > Jan > ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" > To: > Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > > >> >> >> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to >> seal the gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look >> good ! Much better than tape. >> >> Mike >> >> -------- >> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast >> as you could have !!! >> >> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >> signature database 3814 (20090131) __________ >> >> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:12 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... Friday nights not the best night of the week for me;-). I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a place for grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 inch tape sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the plane. They should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a couple of rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Nope, no picture or drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation wears off....the flat surface of the stab and elevator, as viewed from the side/edge, with the tape starting on the top left, and crossing to the bottom right. (This of course assumes that you have properly made the tape with an inch of the sticky surfaces against each other so that the tape can be stuck down on the top left and the bottom right) Now another tape from the bottom left crossing to the top right. Where they pass by each other, they form an "X". Then imagine a piece of tape 2" wide being placed from top of stab to bottom of elev. (top left to bottom right), and next to it another tape placed from bottom left to top right. Continue alternating tapes until gap is sealed. I can imagine how this would look on a full-size plane, and I don't like what I imagine. It worked fine on the models and looked ok, and made an especially lightweight hinge. I personally don't like the idea of this "over and under" tape application, as it always leaves a place where junk can collect, no matter which way you do it. I much prefer to let the elevator hang down, apply the tape across the gap, and leave it at that. I use "racer's tape" that I ordered in orange, which is the color of my plane in that area...the color is not a perfect match...however, I can't see that mismatch when I'm flying and neither can anybody else. The owners of "hangar queens" would not like my reasoning, I'm sure. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Lynn: > do you have a picture or drawing of the X system? > Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem > visualizing your X setup. > > Noel > > > --- On Fri, 1/30/09, Lynn Matteson wrote: > From: Lynn Matteson > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 PM > > > If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap sealing > issue, try the > "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the > "X" method on our model planes. > The "Z" method has been explained....from under (or over) the > trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading > portion of > the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X" > method is just alternating the placement of lengths of 2" wide > tape, over > and under, then under and over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the > "X" method, you make strips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and > from front to back, instead of the "Z" method where you run the tape > from side of elevator to hinge, then hinge to hinge, and so on. > The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how > 'bout > some thoughts? > > As an aside, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is > needed, as > the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and > in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use > of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote: > >> Does anybody have pictures of the gap seal installation? > > > > I too would be interested in seeing photos. I'm interested in > details > of shape, > > overlap and what happens to the slack when you run neutral or down > elevator. > > > > Does the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer > or the > elevator with > > dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed bit of adhesive? > > > > Which way is better to put them on - leading edge on top or > bottom of Get the name you've always wanted ! @ymail.com or > @rocketmail.com. _- > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > ========================================================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:09 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I just flew my plane today, and during the pre-flight I noticed that the gap-seal tape...orange Racer's Tape...that I applied on 10-5-2008 is still holding fast. I wrote the date onto the tape to keep track of how well it held up. The same tape that I applied earlier...God knows when...is also still holding fas, so maybe we're overthinking this gap-seal "problem." Of course, mine is applied over the top of the gap and nothing underneath, so the purists among us...you know who you are...would not buy this fix. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Noel Loveys wrote: > > Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side only with good > old 1 in. > Velcro. > > Another thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator > and rudder > with the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when > you > remove the seal you don't disturb the dope under it. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > > > Good idea, but I'm from the camp that always wants to be able to take > something apart if a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed through > the elevator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevator, and > maybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process, by > far, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller Design wrote: > >> >> >> You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the >> middle and dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator. >> >> Or use sail fabric that is air tight from start >> >> Jan >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" >> >> To: >> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM >> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report >> >> >>> >>> >>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to >>> seal the gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look >>> good ! Much better than tape. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> -------- >>> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast >>> as you could have !!! >>> >>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Read this topic online here: >>> >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus >>> signature database 3814 (20090131) __________ >>> >>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:53 PM PST US From: jason Parker Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox with rotax fuel injection www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUrFJi93MIo=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=nhiMjZGP- Dk=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=cD4_27rMX6Q=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGx ======================= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:02:20 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Mike, Unless you get all the coats and cross coats of poly spray on it it won't last more than a year or two in the sun. Maybe that is permanent enough, but I worry that with all the flexing, and enough coats or polyspray, it will crack. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to seal the gap ??? It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good ! Much better than tape. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:29 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise? Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost Saturday? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... > Friday nights > not the best night of the week for me;-). > > I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a > place for > grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". > > What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 > inch tape > sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the > stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the > plane. They > should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a > couple of > rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! > > Noel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:02:08 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture of my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on the top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the plane. I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I am gradually replacing since it peels. I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted here to that simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the gaps, installed with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it tucks neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on pre-flight. So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority on the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap my slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing pitch control versus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable on a Model 2 than later Models. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise? Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost Saturday? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... > Friday nights > not the best night of the week for me;-). > > I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a > place for > grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". > > What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 > inch tape > sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the > stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the > plane. They > should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a > couple of > rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! > > Noel ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:13:42 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Kitfox-List: Ski report/snow conditions Last week I had a "ski tuck" due to the bungees not being set to a high enough initial tension. This week I cut 2" from them and reinstalled and test flew them yesterday and today, and could not get it to happen again. Admittedly, I wasn't really giving it what could be considered an acrobatic test, but I made some (weak) dives and pull-ups, and couldn't get the ski, or skis, to drop or tuck. I even flew in bumpy-bangy air. I had made a tension check before and after the shortening, and I picked up about 8 pounds of tension per cord, or 16 pounds per ski. I flew today to test the condition of the snow. Last week when I tried to leave here to go to Oshkosh, the snow was so wet and heavy that I could not get over 20 mph on the takeoff roll. This was after 2 days of above freezing temps...34-36 degrees F. Today, the conditions were the same...overnight of over freezing, and 34 F when I took off. It took a bit of coaxing, but I got up alright, and landed at 4 different snow-covered grass strips. It was the same at all strips...a bit longer than normal (most ski takeoffs take more runway, I've read), but doable. When I stopped for lunch, I parked in my own tracks, then 30 minutes later just rocked the plane a bit before fire-up, firewalled it, and away I went, taxiing to the runway...slowly. I used up about 1100 feet of a crosswind, no-tracks runway before giving up and trying it on a snowmobile-trodden runway into the wind. It still took about 300 feet before it got off the ground due to the sticky snow conditions. An article I had read (National Research Council of Canada) talked about "snow friction" in this way: "Early in the tests, it was found that sliding resistance and adhesion were far more dependent upon snow conditions than on the design of the ski. Further, the skiing quality of the snow changed continually and it was not unusual to observe marked changes taking place in less than an hour. The publication notes that there are times when the sliding resistance of aircraft skis is so great that it is impossible to reach flying speed." I'm having a blast test-flying my skis, and seeing first-hand how some of the writings that I studied while building them have merit. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 1, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote: > > The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the > "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape > from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will > always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just > harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented > myself with the "over the front to over the back" method....yes > it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy > air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise? > > Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost > Saturday? : ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > >> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... >> Friday nights >> not the best night of the week for me;-). >> >> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a >> place for >> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". >> >> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 >> inch tape >> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to >> the >> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the >> plane. They >> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a >> couple of >> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! >> >> Noel > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:35 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I just tape up to the hinges, then tape again on the other side of the hinge...all on the top-to-top surfaces...I'm gettin' too old to bend down and look under there, Bob. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 1, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Bob Brennan wrote: > > > I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top > method. When > this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover > picture of > my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape > on the > top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought > the plane. > I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the > plane > including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which > I am > gradually replacing since it peels. > > I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted > here to that > simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside > of the > gaps, installed with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up > it tucks > neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it > would not > accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on > pre-flight. > > So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control > authority on > the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing > the gap my > slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing > pitch control > versus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly > the > under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more > noticeable on > a Model 2 than later Models. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn > Matteson > Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > > > The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or > "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under > the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a > wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get > out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the > "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically > dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a > really "clean" plane otherwise? > > Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost > Saturday? : ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > >> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... >> Friday nights >> not the best night of the week for me;-). >> >> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a >> place for >> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". >> >> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 >> inch tape >> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to >> the >> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the >> plane. They >> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a >> couple of >> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! >> >> Noel > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:36 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I did that with ski saver. Worked fin and not too complicated for my brain. I can make decent 3pt landings with the Soob on front and no flaps----Barely, But it works. Larry 4-1200 Soob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Brennan" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > > > I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When > this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture > of > my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on the > top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the > plane. > I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane > including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I am > gradually replacing since it peels. > > I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted here to > that > simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the > gaps, installed with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it > tucks > neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not > accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on > pre-flight. > > So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority > on > the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap > my > slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing pitch > control > versus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the > under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable > on > a Model 2 than later Models. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson > Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report > > > The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or > "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under > the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a > wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get > out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the > "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically > dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a > really "clean" plane otherwise? > > Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost > Saturday? : ) > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > New skis done and flying > > > On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > >> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... >> Friday nights >> not the best night of the week for me;-). >> >> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a >> place for >> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". >> >> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 >> inch tape >> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the >> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the >> plane. They >> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a >> couple of >> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! >> >> Noel > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:02 PM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:25 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Not lost just out of town until later last night. What did you think of the idea of using Velcro (just on the rudder) Would make it easy to clean and also easy to remove the rudder for repairs due to hangar rash. I'm going to try a gap seal this spring when I get the plane out again. At least on the rudder to try to give me more authority for slips. Those big floats hanging three feet or more below the CG really want to right the plane. So far I've been giving full ruddr and controlling the slip with the ailerons. Even doing that the slip is more gentle than what I can get with no problems from a C-172. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise? Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job. Lost Saturday? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote: > Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... > Friday nights > not the best night of the week for me;-). > > I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a > place for > grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing". > > What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2 > inch tape > sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the > stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the > plane. They > should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight. I'll attach a > couple of > rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough! > > Noel ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:11 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "Lowlead" I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:02 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report That's a good-looking job, LL. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Lowlead wrote: > > I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on > both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:40 PM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: ski saver > > Yes, > check this link on our bags/racks page > http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html > The top item is the scuff saver tape, > Thanks, > Cat > www.tognar.com > > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com > Ye > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:02 PM ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:13 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Larry=2C Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on hand. Th at price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many times I wanted s ome of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C motorcycle tank=2C etc. I'll use it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn Matteson top side only. Lynn=2C if that curls down into the gap=2C rather than up=2C I don't know why anybody woul d use any other method. do not archive Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: asq@roadrun ner.com> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver > Date: Sun=2C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" > > Just received this. Does it sou nd like the same material? Larry> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Larry Huntley" > Sent: Sunday=2C February 01=2C 2009 7:54 PM> Subject: Re: ski saver> > > >> > Yes=2C> > che ck this link on our bags/racks page> > http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boo t_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html> > The top item is the scuff saver t ape=2C> > Thanks=2C> > Cat> > www.tognar.com> >> >> >> Do you still have "s ki saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com> > Ye> >> > > ------------ --------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > =====> > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:23 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver From: "AKFLYERBOB" Larry What material are you talking about? I'm sure every one would like to know. Bob -------- Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska KF Mod I and III Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#228098 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:28 PM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my >-< symbol and my little drawn image file. I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can you elaborate on how you applied so well? Rex Colorado M2/582 Lowlead wrote: > > I use a 3M 3372 polyurethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom of the gap (previous posts shown as >- > > > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084 > > > Attachments: > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver From: John Bonewitz We have a winner! I'm going to order some of this stuff. There are probably lots of other uses besides gap seal. Thanks, John Bonewitz Series 5 On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Larry Huntley wrote: > > Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: "Larry Huntley" > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: ski saver > > >> Yes, >> check this link on our bags/racks page >> http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html >> The top item is the scuff saver tape, >> Thanks, >> Cat >> www.tognar.com >> >> >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com >>> >> Ye >> >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 6:02 PM > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:00 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfox-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kitfox-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator **************************************************************************** ** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines **************************************************************************** ** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:19 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator **************************************************************************** ** Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines **************************************************************************** ** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kitfox-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:31 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this afternoon. He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). He has been using avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in the process of having Lockwood split the case and clean the whole thing up after what Lockwood suspects is lead related problems. He has been changing oil at 50 hours, Lockwood says 25. The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final batch of tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, but thought if there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, there would be reports sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. Does anyone with this era tank have any advice for Eric. Thanks in a advance. Lowell ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:12 PM PST US From: sbennett3 Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited Lowell, Has your friend tried running seafoam through the fuel? I had low idle miss on my 912 and ran it through 2 tanks and its fine now. I went on a couple cross countries burning 100LL and after 40 gallons it took on a low rpm miss/stuck valve. Seafoam is some good stuff... I tried 2 tanks of Marvel mystery oil too. It got better, but not like seafoam did. Steve Bennett 912ul In a message dated 02/03/09 19:35:25 Eastern Standard Time, lcfitt@sbcglobal.net writes: I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this afternoon. He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). He has been using avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in the process of having Lockwood split the case and clean the whole thing up after what Lockwood suspects is lead related problems. He has been changing oil at 50 hours, Lockwood says 25. The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final batch of tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, but thought if there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, there would be reports sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. Does anyone with this era tank have any advice for Eric. Thanks in a advance. Lowell ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:24 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited Lowell, I understood that my V from mid '99 was after the change to a resin that could stand ethanol. All I burn is premium mogas and have had no problems yet. Randy Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:26 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this afternoon. He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). He has been using avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in the process of having Lockwood split the case and clean the whole thing up after what Lockwood suspects is lead related problems. He has been changing oil at 50 hours, Lockwood says 25. The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final batch of tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, but thought if there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, there would be reports sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. Does anyone with this era tank have any advice for Eric. Thanks in a advance. Lowell ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:56 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Brake line fittings question... From: "Cwehner" <1cewehner@cox.net> I've started work on the Brakes and over the years have managed to lose a few Brass poly-flo fittings. Does it matter if the fittings with the "brass" sleeves OR the "nylon" sleeves are used, or is one one or the other required using the Nylaflo pressure tubing. Thanks for any suggestions! -------- Chris Wehner Tulsa, Oklahoma Kitfox IV, 912, lots a mod's, 80% complete Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228390#228390 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:12 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited Apparently this problem had nothing to do with the engine, but rather the clutch and the drive unit. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "sbennett3" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited > Lowell, Has your friend tried running seafoam through the fuel? I had low > idle miss on my 912 and ran it through 2 tanks and its fine now. I went on > a couple cross countries burning 100LL and after 40 gallons it took on a > low rpm miss/stuck valve. Seafoam is some good stuff... I tried 2 tanks > of Marvel mystery oil too. It got better, but not like seafoam did. Steve > Bennett 912ul > > > In a message dated 02/03/09 19:35:25 Eastern Standard Time, > lcfitt@sbcglobal.net writes: > > I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this > afternoon. > He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). He has been using > avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in the process of having > Lockwood split the case and clean the whole thing up after what Lockwood > suspects is lead related problems. He has been changing oil at 50 hours, > Lockwood says 25. > > The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final batch > of > tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, but thought if > there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, there would be reports > sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. Does anyone with this era tank > have any advice for Eric. > > Thanks in a advance. > > Lowell > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:25 PM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited Thanks Randy, This is exactly the information he is looking for. Lowell Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited > > > Lowell, > I understood that my V from mid '99 was after the change to a resin that > could stand ethanol. All I burn is premium mogas and have had no problems > yet. > > Randy > Series 5/7 912S Warpdrive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:26 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited > > > I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this > afternoon. > > He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). He has been using > avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in the process of having > Lockwood split the case and clean the whole thing up after what Lockwood > suspects is lead related problems. He has been changing oil at 50 hours, > Lockwood says 25. > > The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final batch > of > > tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, but thought if > there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, there would be reports > sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. Does anyone with this era tank > have any advice for Eric. > > Thanks in a advance. > > Lowell > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:49 PM PST US From: Weiss Richard Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Mogas revisited Lowell, I have the first Series V aircraft, Kreemed tanks and all. I decided to use avgas to avoid any issues with mogas/additives. I do use the lead eliminating chemical that McBean sells to prevent lead buildup. I don't have enough hours on the engine to have problems - yet, but I'm not expecting any due to the lead scavenging additive. I have heard that if the oil isn't changed regularly there could be lead deposits in the gearbox. I would be sure to use the Lockwood recommended oil/change time. Rick Weiss N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS SkyStar S/N 1 Port Orange, FL On Feb 3, 2009, at 7:26 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote: > > > I got a call from a friend in the central part of California this > afternoon. He has a Model V+ (early 2003 with a 912S - 300 hours). > He has been using avgas for the usual - Mehanol - reasons and is in > the process of having Lockwood split the case and clean the whole > thing up after what Lockwood suspects is lead related problems. He > has been changing oil at 50 hours, Lockwood says 25. > > The question he asked had to do with the resin formula on the final > batch of tanks Skyster sold before the bankurptcy. I had no info, > but thought if there was a problem with these tanks with mogas, > there would be reports sufacing on the list. I don't recall any. > Does anyone with this era tank have any advice for Eric. > > Thanks in a advance. > > Lowell > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:48 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Mogas revisited From: "Roger Lee" If you are using 100LL you should be changing oil at 25 hrs and plugs at 50 hrs. If you don't then headaches await you soon. If you use 91 oct. then oil and filter at 50 hrs and plugs at 75 hrs. Tell your friend not to worry about the ethanol. The lead in 100LL is far worse in the long run. If he is using 100LL then he should also be using a fuel additive like Decalin (from Aircraft Spruce) all the time. It is 1/2 oz. for each 10 gal. The lead in 100LL gets in everything. Pilots in Europe use up to 18% ethanol and in South America up to 24% so why worry about 7-10% here. Rotax says 5% is ok in writing, but a good part of the Rotax owners in the USA use 91 Oct. with ethanol. This question comes up in every class. 91 Oct. is better for the engine than 100LL! Even if you use a lead scavenging fuel additive you will have to pull the gear box at 800 hrs and clean it out and you will probably have to send it to a service center. You may have lead build up issues in the valve train or cylinders to deal with. Rotax has some guide lines as to when you have to pull components when using 100LL that others using 91 octane do not have to bother with. Here is the old adage if you don't keep up on your Rotax maint: Pay a little now or pay a lot later. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228404#228404 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:07 PM PST US From: "Larry Boone" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 I will be going to Alaska late August, but will not be flying the kitfox. If you plan to be in Fairbanks early September, I would like to try to make contact. It is my old flying area and I might have access to a C206. ----- Original Message ----- From: b gammon To: kitfox-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 9:09 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 Is any one planning a "Kitfox" trip to Alaska this Summer? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Kitfox-List Digest Server To: Kitfox-List Digest List Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 11:59:05 PM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 * Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html& Chapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&C hapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox ====================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/02/09: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Lowlead) 2. 01:04 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 (b gammon) 3. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: ski saver AKFLYERBOB (Larry Huntley) 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Fw: ski saver (Lynn Matteson) 5. 07:01 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@aol.com) 6. 07:03 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (lowflyer) 7. 07:05 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Catz631@AOL.COM) 8. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (Rexinator) 9. 07:34 AM - Re: air worthiness (dcsfoto) 10. 09:41 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report (darinh) 11. 10:54 AM - Re: ski saver (George Wells) 12. 03:58 PM - Kitfox owner location map (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) 13. 04:45 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report (patrick reilly) 14. 05:09 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (patrick reilly) 15. 05:27 PM - Re: Kitfox broken motor mount (Malcolm Brubaker) 16. 05:44 PM - Posting videos (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 17. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount (Noel Loveys) 18. 06:55 PM - Flaperon hinge brackets (clemwehner) 19. 07:02 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (Lynn Matteson) 20. 07:20 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (patrick reilly) 21. 07:33 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver (Lynn Matteson) 22. 07:46 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets (Tom Jones) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:04:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "Lowlead" Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames. Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with a very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' running the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). It's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor. The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position when tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..) Hope this makes sense... Dan H. rexinator wrote: > That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my >-< symbol and my > little drawn image file. I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can > you elaborate on how you applied so well? > > Rex > Colorado M2/582 > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:57 AM PST US From: b gammon Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 This is my first attempt to participate in the Kitfox discussions. =0AIs an yone planning to fly a Kitfox to Alaska this Summer?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________=0AFrom: Kitfox-List Digest Server =0ATo: Kitfox-List Digest List =0ASent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:59:13 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List Diges t: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09=0A=0A*=0A=0A============ =============0A- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive=0A================== =======0A=0AToday's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be fou nd in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includ es the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and featu res Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file include s the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed wi th a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. =0A=0AHT ML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Sty le=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0AText Vers ion:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82 701&View=txt&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0A=0A=== ====================0A- EMail Versi on of Today's List Digest Archive=0A============ ===========0A=0A=0A- - - - - ---------------- ------------------------------------------=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Sun 02/01/09: 21=0A- - - - - ---------------------------------------------------------- =0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 06 :38 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Catz631@aol.com)=0A- - 2 . 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 3. 11:09 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 4. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Lynn Matteson) =0A- - 5. 12:02 PM - Kitfox with rotax fuel injection- (jason Parker) =0A- - 6. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Randy Da ughenbaugh)=0A- - 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (L ynn Matteson)=0A- - 8. 03:02 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Bob Brennan)=0A- - 9. 03:13 PM - Ski report/snow conditions- (Lynn M atteson)=0A- - 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Lyn n Matteson)=0A- - 11. 03:24 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- ( Larry Huntley)=0A- - 12. 05:00 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report - (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 13. 05:05 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repor t- (Lowlead)=0A- - 14. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo rt- (Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 15. 05:39 PM - Fw: ski saver- (Larry Hunt ley)=0A- - 16. 06:11 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (patrick reilly)=0A- - 17. 06:50 PM - Re: ski saver- (AKFLYERBOB)=0A- - 18. 08:17 PM - R e: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Rexinator)=0A- - 19. 09:18 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (John Bonewitz)=0A- - 20. 11:08 PM - Official Ki tfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)- (Matt Dralle)=0A- - 21. 1 1:25 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines- (Matt Dralle)=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 1- _______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:38:03 AM PST US=0AFrom: Catz631@aol.com=0AS ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0AThat foam weath er striping sounds like a good idea. You could further refine =0Athis by pu tting a strip of teflon antichafe tape on the other side of the =0Aweather striping foam(oposite the adhesive side) or on the elevator leading edge=0A =0Afor that mater. This stuff is real slick and I bought a roll of it from Spruce=0A=0Aas a cowling chafe tape a while back. It works real well.=0AOnl y thing is, in the heat the adhesive on weather strip tends to give way =0A into a goo.=0A- That sailplane tape looks interesting also=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pensacola,Fl.=0A**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay =0Aup-to-date with the latest news. (http:/ /aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)=0A=0A__________________________ ______ - Message 2- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:02: 06 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kit fox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AOr you could attach the seal, on the elevator side only with good old 1 in.=0AVelcro.=0A=0AAnother thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator and rudder=0Awit h the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when you=0Aremo ve the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A-----Origin al Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:ow ner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Sa turday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator G ap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AGood idea, but I'm from the camp that always wa nts to be able to take- =0Asomething apart if a problem arises. I guess i f a rock passed through- =0Athe elevator, you could always MEK the Vee of f from the elevator, and- =0Amaybe reattach it when the repairs were made . A longer process, by- =0Afar, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking .=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #206 2, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0AN ew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller D esign wrote:=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> You can use that, bu t why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the- =0A> middle and dope one Ve e to stab and other to elevator.=0A>=0A> Or use sail fabric that is air tig ht from start=0A>=0A> Jan=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" =0A> To: =0A> Sent: Fri day, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Se al Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to- =0A>> seal the gap ? ??- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look- =0A>> good !- Much b etter than tape.=0A>>=0A>> Mike=0A>>=0A>> --------=0A>> "NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast- =0A>> as you could have !!!=0A>>=0A>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Read this t opic online here:=0A>>=0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=2 27727#227727=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A >>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> __ ________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus- =0A>> s ignature database 3814 (20090131) __________=0A>>=0A>> The message was chec ked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________- Message 3- _____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 11:09:12 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0ASunday afte rnoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...- Friday nights=0Anot t he best night of the week for me;-).- =0A=0AI agree the X system allows f or a light hinge on a model but a place for=0Agrass and leaves etc. To catc h in the "Real thing".- =0A=0AWhat I was thinking at first was a couple o f pieces of say 2 1/2 inch tape=0Asewn right down the middle and then one h alf of each tape doped to the=0Astabilizers with the other halves just fini shed to match the plane.- They=0Ashould be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a couple of=0Arough diagrams... emphasis on the t erm rough!=0A=0ANoel =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-lis t-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:04 AM=0ASubje ct: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANope, no picture or drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation- =0Awears off....the f lat surface of the stab and elevator, as viewed- =0Afrom the side/edge, w ith the tape starting on the top left, and- =0Acrossing to the bottom rig ht. (This of course assumes that you have- =0Aproperly made the tape with an inch of the sticky surfaces against- =0Aeach other so that the tape c an- be stuck down on the top left and- =0Athe bottom right) Now another tape from the bottom left crossing to- =0Athe top right. Where they pass by each other, they form an "X". Then- =0Aimagine a piece of tape 2" wid e being placed from top of stab to- =0Abottom of elev. (top left to botto m right), and next to it another- =0Atape placed from bottom left to top right. Continue alternating tapes- =0Auntil gap is sealed. I can imagine how this would look on a full-size- =0Aplane, and I don't like what I ima gine. It worked fine on the models- =0Aand looked ok, and made an especia lly lightweight hinge. I personally- =0Adon't like the idea of this "over and under" tape application, as it- =0Aalways leaves a place where junk can collect, no matter which way you- =0Ado it. I much prefer to let the elevator hang down, apply the tape- =0Aacross the gap, and leave it at th at. I use "racer's tape" that I- =0Aordered in orange, which is the color of my plane in that area...the- =0Acolor is not a perfect match...howeve r, I can't see that mismatch- =0Awhen I'm flying and neither can anybody else. The owners of "hangar- =0Aqueens" would not like my reasoning, I'm sure.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system =0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noel Lovey s wrote:=0A=0A> Lynn:=0A> do you have a picture or drawing of the X system? =0A> Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem- =0A> visualizing your X setup.=0A>=0A> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A> --- On Fri, 1/30/09 , Lynn Matteson wrote:=0A> From: Lynn Matteson =0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A> T o: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 P M=0A>=0A>=0A> If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap seali ng- =0A> issue, try the=0A> "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We used the=0A> "X" method on our model planes.=0A> The "Z" method has been explai ned....from under (or over) the=0A> trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading- =0A> portion of=0A> the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"=0A> method is just alternating the pla cement of lengths of 2" wide- =0A> tape, over=0A> and under, then under a nd over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the=0A> "X" method, you make str ips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and=0A> from front to back, instead of th e "Z" method where you run the tape=0A> from side of elevator to hinge, the n hinge to hinge, and so on.=0A> The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how- =0A> 'bout=0A> some thoughts?=0A>=0A> As an as ide, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is- =0A> needed, as=0A> the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" and =0A> in using the "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use =0A> of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.=0A>=0A> Lynn Matt eson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> New ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Me rlin GT wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A> >=0A> > On Fri, January 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:=0A> >> Does anybody have pictures of the ga p seal installation?=0A> >=0A> > I too would be interested in seeing photos . I'm interested in- =0A> details=0A> of shape,=0A> > overlap and what ha ppens to the slack when you run neutral or down=0A> elevator.=0A> >=0A> > D oes the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer- =0A> or the=0A> elevator with=0A> > dirt and debris sticking to the small exposed b it of adhesive?=0A> >=0A> > Which way is better to put them on - leading ed ge on top or- =0A> bottom of Get the name you've always wanted ! @ymail.c om or- =0A> @rocketmail.com. _- =0A> =0A> ====================== ============0A=0A=0A_________________________ _______ - Message 4- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:26: 09 AM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox -List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI just flew my plane today , and during the pre-flight I noticed that- =0Athe gap-seal tape...orange Racer's Tape...that I applied on 10-5-2008- =0Ais still holding fast. I wrote the date onto the tape to keep track- =0Aof how well it held up. Th e same tape that I applied earlier...God- =0Aknows when...is also still h olding fas, so maybe we're overthinking- =0Athis gap-seal "problem." Of c ourse, mine is applied over the top of- =0Athe gap and nothing underneath , so the purists among us...you- know- =0Awho you are...would not buy t his fix.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 220 0, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition syste m=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 11:32 AM, Noel Love ys wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator side onl y with good- =0A> old 1 in.=0A> Velcro.=0A>=0A> Another thing to try is t o cover the leading edge of the elevator- =0A> and rudder=0A> with the pl astic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when- =0A> you=0A> re move the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.=0A>=0A> Noel=0A>=0A> --- --Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A> Matteson=0A> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM=0A> To: kitfox-list@ matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo rt=0A>=0A>=0A> Good idea, but I'm from the camp that always wants to be abl e to take=0A> something apart if a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed through=0A> the elevator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevat or, and=0A> maybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process, by=0A> far, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking.=0A>=0A> Lynn Mattes on=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> New ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propeller Des ign wrote:=0A>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the=0A>> middle and dope one Vee to stab and other to elevator.=0A>>=0A>> Or use sail fabric that is air ti ght from start=0A>>=0A>> Jan=0A>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPi lot"- =0A>> =0A>> To: =0A>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> =0A> >>=0A>>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to=0A >>> seal the gap ???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look=0A>>> g ood !- Much better than tape.=0A>>>=0A>>> Mike=0A>>>=0A>>> --------=0A>>> "NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast=0A>>> as you could have !!!=0A>>>=0A>>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>=0A>>> Read this topic online here:=0A>>>=0A>>> http://forums.matroni cs.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>= 0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus=0A>>> signature database 3814 (20090131) _____ _____=0A>>>=0A>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=0A>>>=0A >>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A ________________________ ________- Message 5- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime : 12:02:53 PM PST US=0AFrom: jason Parker =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox with rotax fuel injection=0A=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v =tUrFJi93MIo=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=nhiMjZGP-=0ADk=0Awww.you tube .com/watch?v=cD4_27rMX6Q=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGx=0A=== ======================0A=0A ______ __________________________- Message 6- ________________________________ _____=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:02:20 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Randy Daughenbaugh" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo rt=0A=0A=0AMike,=0AUnless you get all the coats and cross coats of poly spr ay on it it won't=0Alast more than a year or two in the sun.- Maybe that is permanent enough,=0Abut I worry that with all the flexing, and enough co ats or polyspray, it=0Awill crack.=0A=0ARandy=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message -----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox -list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot=0ASent: Friday, January 3 0, 2009 1:19 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report =0A=0A=0AWhy not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to se al the gap=0A???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good !- M uch better than=0Atape.=0A=0AMike=0A=0A--------=0A"NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you=0Acould have !!!=0A=0AKol b MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727=0A=0A=0A___________ ________ _____________- Message 7- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 02:22:29 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubj ect: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catc her" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space t hat wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a spa ce underneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane o therwise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedst er, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroai r direct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visu alize the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hin ge on a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pie ces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves ju st finished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough di agrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________- Message 8- _____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 03:02:08 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Bob Brennan" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI' m glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0At his topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture of =0Amy plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on th e=0Atop side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the p lane.=0AI assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the p lane=0Aincluding the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I am=0Agradually replacing since it peels.=0A=0AI was hesitant to post my me thod since no one else had admitted here to that=0Asimple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the=0Agaps, installed with th e elevator fully down. With the elevator up it tucks=0Aneatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not=0Aaccumulate anythin g, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0Apre-flight.=0A=0ASo far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority on=0Athe short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap my=0A slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing pitch contro l=0Aversus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the =0Aunder-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable on=0Aa Model 2 than later Models.=0A=0ABob Brennan - N717GB=0AELSA Repairm an, inspection rated=0A1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0ARotax 582 with 3 blade prop=0AWrightsville Pa- =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-k itfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matr onic s.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0ASubjec t: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catche r" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of a pplying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to ov er the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space tha t wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" me thod. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to ov er the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane oth erwise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair d irect-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 200 9, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visuali ze the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in th e "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagr ams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 9- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 03:13:42 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubj ect: Kitfox-List: Ski report/snow conditions=0A=0A=0ALast week I had a "ski tuck" due to the bungees not being set to a- =0Ahigh enough initial tens ion. This week I cut 2" from them and- =0Areinstalled and test flew them - yesterday and today, and could not- =0Aget it to happen again. Admitt edly, I wasn't really giving it what- =0Acould be considered an acrobatic test, but I made some (weak) dives- =0Aand pull-ups, and couldn't get th e ski, or skis, to drop or tuck. I- =0Aeven flew in bumpy-bangy air. I ha d made a tension check before and- =0Aafter the shortening, and I picked up about 8 pounds of tension per- =0Acord, or 16 pounds per ski.=0A=0AI f lew today to test the condition of the snow.- Last week when I- =0Atrie d to leave here to go to Oshkosh, the snow was so wet and heavy- =0Athat I could not get over 20 mph on the takeoff roll. This was after- =0A2 day s of above freezing temps...34-36 degrees F. Today, the- =0Aconditions we re the same...overnight of over freezing, and 34 F when- =0AI took off. I t took a bit of coaxing, but I got up alright, and- =0Alanded at 4 differ ent snow-covered grass strips. It was the same at- =0Aall strips...a bit longer than normal (most ski takeoffs take more- =0Arunway, I've read), b ut doable. When I stopped for lunch, I parked in- =0Amy own tracks, then 30 minutes later just rocked the plane a bit- =0Abefore fire-up, firewall ed it, and away I went, taxiing to the- =0Arunway...slowly. I used up abo ut 1100 feet of a crosswind, no-tracks- =0Arunway before giving up and tr ying it on a snowmobile-trodden runway- =0Ainto the wind. It still took a bout 300 feet before it got off the- =0Aground due to the sticky snow con ditions.=0A=0AAn article I had read (National Research Council of Canada) t alked- =0Aabout "snow friction" in this way:=0A=0A"Early in the tests, it was found that sliding resistance and- =0Aadhesion were far more depende nt upon snow conditions than on the- =0Adesign of the ski. Further, the s kiing quality of the snow changed- =0Acontinually and it was not unusual to observe marked changes taking- =0Aplace in less than an hour. The publ ication notes that there are- =0Atimes when the sliding resistance of air craft skis is so great that- =0Ait is impossible to reach flying speed." =0A=0AI'm having a blast test-flying my skis, and seeing first-hand how- =0Asome of the writings that I studied while building them have merit.=0A =0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 6 05 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANew ski s done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the- =0A> "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you a pply the tape- =0A> from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa , there will- =0A> always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debr is. It's just- =0A> harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented- =0A> myself with the "over the front to over the back" method. ...yes- =0A> it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that c an eddy- =0A> air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost - =0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taild ragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair d irect-fire ignition system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...- =0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the bes t night of the week for me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a- =0A>> place for=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2- =0A>> inch tape=0A>> sewn right down the m iddle and then one half of each tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the- =0A>> plane.- They =0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a - =0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>> =0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 10 - ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:19:35 PM PST US =0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Eleva tor Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI just tape up to the hinges, then tape ag ain on the other side of- =0Athe hinge...all on the top-to-top surfaces.. .I'm gettin' too old to- =0Abend down and look under there, Bob. : )=0A =0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 6 05 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANew ski s done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top- =0A> method. When=0A> this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover- =0A> pictur e of=0A> my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape - =0A> on the=0A> top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there whe n I bought- =0A> the plane.=0A> I assume it was wide electrical tape whic h is *everywhere* on the- =0A> plane=0A> including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which- =0A> I am=0A> gradually replacing sin ce it peels.=0A>=0A> I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted- =0A> here to that=0A> simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside- =0A> of the=0A> gaps, installed with the elev ator fully down. With the elevator up- =0A> it tucks=0A> neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it- =0A> would not=0A> accu mulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0A> pre-flig ht.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control - =0A> authority on=0A> the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use . Before sealing- =0A> the gap my=0A> slowest approach speed was determin ed by when I started losing- =0A> pitch control=0A> versus stall speed, w hich made it tough to flare properly. Possibly- =0A> the=0A> under-camber ed wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more- =0A> noticeable on=0A> a Model 2 than later Models.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N717GB=0A> ELSA Repairm an, inspection rated=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 b lade prop=0A> Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A> Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 February 20 09 5:18 pm=0A> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the proble m with either the "X" or the "Z" (or=0A> "S") method of applying tape...whe ther you apply the tape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects de bris. It's just harder to get=0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I've co ntented myself with the=0A> "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically=0A> dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy ai r, but have we a=0A> really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignitio n system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 P M, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X s ystem easy now...=0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the best night of the week fo r me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a=0A>> place for=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thin g".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2=0A>> inch tape=0A>> sewn right down the middle and then one half of eac h tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just fi nished to match the=0A>> plane.- They=0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a=0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>>=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________- Message 11- ____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 03:24:36 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI did th at with ski saver. Worked fin and not too complicated for my brain. =0AI ca n make decent 3pt landings with the Soob on front and no =0Aflaps----Barely , But it works.- - Larry 4-1200 Soob=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "Bob Brennan" =0ASent: Sunday, Februar y 01, 2009 5:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repor t=0A=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> I'm glad to see someone el se used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0A> this topic came up a fe w months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture =0A> of=0A> my plane I h ave for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on the=0A> top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the =0A> plane.=0A > I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane =0A> including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I a m=0A> gradually replacing since it peels.=0A>=0A> I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted here to =0A> that=0A> simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the=0A> gaps, insta lled with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it =0A> tucks=0A> n eatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not =0A> accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0A> pre-flight.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority =0A> on=0A> the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap =0A> my=0A> slowest approach speed was determ ined by when I started losing pitch =0A> control=0A> versus stall speed, wh ich made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the=0A> under-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeable =0A> on=0A> a Model 2 t han later Models.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N717GB=0A> ELSA Repairman, inspecti on rated=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop=0A > Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox -list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.c om] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0A> To: k itfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Te st Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X " or the "Z" (or=0A> "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the t ape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will a lways be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just hard er to get=0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the=0A> "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamicall y=0A> dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a=0A> really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diagrams are very understanda ble, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Ma tteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> New ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote :=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...=0A >> Friday nights=0A>> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a=0A>> place fo r=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2=0A>> inch tape =0A>> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to th e=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the=0A>> pl ane.- They=0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'l l attach a=0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough !=0A>>=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www. avg.com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 12- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:00:25 PM PST US=0AFr om: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevato r Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANot lost just out of town until later last n ight.=0A=0AWhat did you think of the idea of using Velcro (just on the rudd er)- Would=0Amake it easy to clean and also easy to remove the rudder for repairs due to=0Ahangar rash.=0A=0AI'm going to try a gap seal this spring when I get the plane out again.- At=0Aleast on the rudder to try to give me more authority for slips.- Those big=0Afloats hanging three feet or m ore below the CG really want to right the=0Aplane.- So far I've been givi ng full ruddr and controlling the slip with the=0Aailerons.- Even doing t hat the slip is more gentle than what I can get with=0Ano problems from a C -172.=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-s erver@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Be half Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:48 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of appl ying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space that w ants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" metho d. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space un derneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane otherw ise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair di rect-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009 , at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visualiz e the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge o n a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves just f inished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to s eal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagra ms... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A____________________ ____________- Message 13- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0A Time: 05:05:11 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0AFrom: "Lowlead" =0A=0A=0AI use a 3M 3372 poly urethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom=0Aof the ga p (previous posts shown as >-=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahtt p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A=0A=0AAt tachment s: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A=0A= 0A______ __________________________- Message 14- _______________________________ _____=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:30:02 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0A That's a good-looking job, LL.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, ta ildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair dire ct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A =0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Lowlead wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> I use a 3M 3372 po lyurethane surface protection tape applied on- =0A> both top and bottom o f the gap (previous posts shown as >-=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online he re:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A> =0A>=0A> Attachments:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_1 41.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 15- __ __________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:39:40 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver =0A=0A=0AJust received this. Does it sound like the same material?- Larry =0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: =0ASent: Sunda y, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM=0ASubject: Re: ski saver=0A=0A=0A>=0A> Yes,=0A > check this link on our bags/racks page=0A> http://www.tognar.com/bags_rac ks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html=0A> The top item is the scuff saver tape,=0A> Thanks,=0A> Cat=0A> www.tognar.com=0A>=0A>=0A>> Do you stil l have "ski saver" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A> Ye=0A> =0A=0A=0A---------------------------------------------------------- -------- --------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 16- ______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:11:13 PM PST US=0AFrom: patrick reilly =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0ALar ry=2C Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on hand. Th =0Aat price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many times I wante d s=0Aome of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C motorcycle tank=2C etc. I'll =0Ause it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn Matteson top side only. Lynn=2C if that=0Acurls down into the gap=2C rather than up=2C I don' t know why anybody woul=0Ad use any other method.=0Ado not archive Pat Reil lyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: asq@roadrun=0Aner.com> x-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A> Date: Sun=2 C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > --> Kitfox-List message posted =0Aby: "Larry Huntley" > > Just received this. Does it sou=0And like the same material? Larry> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Larry Huntley" > Sent: Sunday=2C =0AFebruary 01=2C 2009 7:54 PM> Subject: Re: ski saver> > > >> > Yes=2C > > che=0Ack this link on our bags/racks page> > http://www.tognar.com/bags _racks_boo=0At_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html> > The top item is the scuff saver t=0Aape=2C> > Thanks=2C> > Cat> > www.tognar.com> >> >> >> Do you still have "s=0Aki saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com> > Ye> >> > > ------------=0A------------------------------------------------- -------------------> > > >=0A=====> > > =0A=0A___________________ _____________- Message 17- ____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 06:50:23 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver=0AFrom: " AKFLYERBOB" =0A=0A=0ALarry=0AWhat material are you talking about?=0AI'm sure every one would like to know.=0ABob=0A=0A---- ----=0ABob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska=0AKF Mod I and III=0A=0A=0ARead this top ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#2 28098=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 18- ___________ _________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:17:28 PM PST US=0AFrom: Rexinato r =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal T est Report=0A=0A=0AThat's exactly what I was trying to describe with my- >-<- symbol and my =0Alittle drawn image file.- I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can =0Ayou elaborate on how you applied so well?=0A=0ARex =0AColorado M2/582=0A=0A=0ALowlead wrote:=0A>=0A> I use a 3M 3372 polyureth ane surface protection tape applied on both top and=0Abottom of the gap (pr evious posts shown as >-=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> http: //forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A>=0A>=0A> Attachme nts: =0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A>- =0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 19- ______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:18:50 PM PST US=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0AFrom: John Bonewitz =0A=0AWe have a wi nner! I'm going to order some of this stuff. There are probably=0Alots of o ther uses besides gap seal.=0A=0AThanks,=0AJohn Bonewitz=0ASeries 5=0A=0AOn Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Larry Huntley wrote:=0A =0A>=0A> Just received this. Does it sound like the same material?- Larry =0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: =0A> To: "Larr y Huntley" =0A> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM =0A> Subject: Re: ski saver=0A>=0A>=0A>> Yes,=0A>> check this link on our b ags/racks page=0A>> http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowb oard_accessory.html=0A>> The top item is the scuff saver tape,=0A>> Thanks, =0A>> Cat=0A>> www.tognar.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>- Do you still have "ski save r" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A>>>=0A>> Ye=0A>>=0A>>=0A> =0A>=0A> ------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------=0A>=0A>=0A> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A> 6:02 PM =0A>=0A>=0A=0A________________________________- Message 20- ___________ _________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:08:00 PM PST US=0AFrom: Matt Dra lle =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APlease read over t he Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.- The=0Acomplete Ki tfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowin g URL:=0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html=0A=0ATha nk you,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A[ Not e: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as=0A - - - - Courier.- Proportional fonts will cause display formattin g errors. ]=0A=0A=0A- This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the f ollowing address:=0A- =0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matro nics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm=0A=0A=0A- - - - ********************** **************************************=0A- - - - ******* LIST POLIC IES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******=0A- - - - ************** **********************************************=0A=0A=0APLEASE READ.- This document contains Kitfox-List policies and information=0Afor new and old s ubscribers.- Understanding the Kitfox-List policies will=0Aminimize probl ems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Kitfox-List=0Arunning smo othly for all of us.=0A=0A=0A******************************************=0A* ** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***=0A******************************* ***********=0A=0A- There are many features available on the Matronics Ema il Lists and each=0A- one is described in detailed below.- However, usi ng the List Navigator=0A- you can quickly access the complete set of feat ures available for this=0A- List.- The List Navigator can be found at t he following URL:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Kitfox-List=0A=0A=0A******************************** ******** =0A*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***=0A***************************** ***********=0A=0A- Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your e mail address and=0A- select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or uns ubscribed from.- You=0A- may also use the handy "Find" function to dete rmine the exact syntax of =0A- your email address as it is subscribed to the List.- Please see the =0A- complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.=0A- The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: =0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/subscribe=0A =0A- Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your su bsciption=0A- process.- The first verifies that your subscription/unsub sciption request=0A- was received, and the second confirms that the proce ss has been completed.=0A=0A- You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.- =0A- The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours.- You cannot post=0A=0A- until you receive the s econd conformation email message.=0A=0A=0A*****************************=0A* ** How to Post a Message ***=0A*****************************=0A=0A- Send an email message to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - kitfox-list@m atronics.com=0A=0A- Your message will be redistributed to everyone curren tly subscribed=0A- to the List.=0A=0A=0A********************************* ********************=0A*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ** *=0A*****************************************************=0A=0A- When a n ew post is received by the system, the From: line of the message=0A- is c hecked and compared against the current subscription list.- If the=0A- email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.=0A - If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it =0A- is dumped.- This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that=0A- gets posted to the Lists.=0A=0A- Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important=0A- with regard to the con figuration of your email application such as Outlook=0A- or Eudora.- Fo r example, the following two email addresses may be=0A- functionally equi valent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM=0A- test dependi ng on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - smith@machine.domain.com=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - smith@domain.com=0A=0A- Either email address syntax is al right, just be sure that you configure=0A- your email application to matc h *exactly* the address you've subscibed to =0A- the List.=0A=0A=0A****** ********************************=0A*** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** =0A**************************************=0A=0A- Limited posting of enclo sures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets=0A- is supported on t he Lists.- There are a number of restrictions, and these=0A- are detail ed below.- Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the=0A- conten t of enclosures.=0A=0A- These are some of the features and limits of encl osures on the Matronics =0A- Lists:=0A=0A- 1) Enclosures will only be p osted to the Real Time version of the Lists.=0A=0A- 2) Enclosures will NO T be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.=0A=0A- 3) Enclosu res WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.=0A=0A- 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.=0A=0A- 5) Enclosures will NOT be av ailable in the List Browse feature.=0A=0A- 6) Only the following file typ es and extensions will be allowed:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls=0A=0A- - - All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to=0A- - - sender.- The e nclosure types listed above are relatively safe from=0A- - - a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.=0A=0A- 7) ! ! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting=0A - - - to the List.- This is done in real time and will not slow dow n=0A- - - the process of posting the message !!=0A=0A=0A- Here are some rules for posting enclosures.- Failure to abide by these rules=0A=0A - could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Li sts.=0A=0A- 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!!- Make sure that the files=0A- - - you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). - Remember that there=0A- - - are still people checking they're ema il via dial up modem.- If you post=0A- - - 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these=0A- - - folks and the rest of us, for that matter.=0A=0A- 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!!- I d on't want to see huge 3000 x 2000=0A- - - pictures getting posted tha t are 3 or 4MB each.- This is just =0A- - - unacceptable.- Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture=0A- - - down to someth ing on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the=0A- - - file size t o less-than 200KB, preferably much less.=0A=0A- - - Microsoft has a r eally awesome utility available for free that allows=0A- - - you to R ight-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically =0A- - - scale it down and resave it.- This is a great utility - get it, use it!=0A- - - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys. mspx=0A- - - Look for the link "Image Resizer"=0A=0A- 3) !! This wo uld seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway.- Do not=0A- - - post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. =0A- - - And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything e ven =0A- - - questionable. !!=0A=0A- 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members=0A- - - subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting=0A- - - to 1MB X 10 00 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!!- BE CAREFUL and =0A- - - BE COURTEOUS!=0A=0A- Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and F ile Share where=0A- you can have your files and photos posted on the Matr onics web server=0A- for long time viewing and availability.=0A=0A=0A**** ***************=0A*** Digest Mode ***=0A*******************=0A=0A- Each d ay, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.=0A- T his digest will contain the same information that is currently appended =0A - to the archive file.- It has all of the headers except for the "From: "=0A- and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator cons isting =0A- of a line of underscores.=0A=0A- Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be=0A- combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.=0A=0A- To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form =0A- described abo ve, and just select the Digest version of the List.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/subscribe=0A=0A- Note that you * can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions=0A- of the Li st at the same time.- This is perfectly acceptable.=0A=0A- Now some cav eats:=0A=0A- * Messages sent to "kitfox-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard=0A- - email list.- In other words, you cannot post mess ages only to the=0A- - digest List.=0A=0A- * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you=0A- - will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of=0A- - the day.=0A =0A- * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded t o the=0A- - normal list associated with the digest.- Important Note: - Please change=0A- - the subject line to reflect the topic of your r esponse!- Also, please =0A- - *do not include all or most of the dige st in your reply*.=0A=0A=0A****************************=0A*** List Digest B rowser ***=0A****************************=0A=0A- An archive of all the Li st Digests can be found online in either plain text=0A- or HTML format. - These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to=0A- the Di gest email list on the given day.- The Digest Archives can be found=0A- at the following location: =0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://ww w.matronics.com/digest=0A=0A=0A************************************ *****=0A *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***=0A******************************* **********=0A=0A- At times, your message may concern something that is re velent only to a very=0A=0A- small number of persons or to a limited area , and you may not wish to archive=0A=0A- it.- In such a case, simply pu t the following phrase anywhere in the =0A- message:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - do not archive=0A=0A- Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List =0A- email distribution as norma l.=0A=0A=0A**********************************************=0A***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****=0A***************************************** *****=0A=0A- Note that if your email address begins to cause problems suc h as bounced=0A- email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your addr ess will be promptly=0A- removed from the List.- If you discover that y ou are no longer receiving=0A- messages from the Kitfox-List, go to the f ollowing Web page, and look=0A- for your email address and a possible rea son for your removal.=0A=0A- The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that =0A- automatically looks though the day's bounce d email for addresses that =0A- caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox =0A- full", etc.- If the Email Weasel remo ves your email address from the =0A- Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronic s.com/unsubscribed=0A=0A- If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel =0A- free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.=0A=0A=0A*******************************=0A*** List Member Informat ion ***=0A*******************************=0A=0A- If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and =0A- paper mail address i n the following format:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - smith@somehost .com=0A- - - - - - - - Joe Smith=0A- - - - - - - - 123 Airport Lane=0A- - - - - - - - Tower, CA 91234- 1234=0A- - - - - - - - 098-765-1234 w=0A- - - - - - - - 123-456-7890 h=0A=0A- Please forward this information to the following email address:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - requests@mat ronics.com=0A=0A- I have a file of such things, that I typically use to c ontact you when =0A- there are problems with your email address.- The i nformation will NOT =0A- be used for any other commercial purpose.=0A=0A =0A****************************************=0A*** Realtime Web Email List B rowsing ***=0A****************************************=0A=0A- Recent mess ages posted to the Kitfox-List are also made available on=0A- the Web for realtime browsing.- Seven days worth of back postings are=0A- availabl e with this feature.- The messages can be sorted by Subject, =0A- Autho r, Date, or Message Thread.- The Realtime List Browser indexes are =0A- updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45.- You can also reply to a mess age=0A=0A- or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interfac e (coming soon).=0A- You do not have to be subscribed to the given list t o use the List=0A- Browser Interface in view-mode.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/browselist/kitfox-list=0A=0A=0A*** ****************************************=0A*** Web Forums Bulletin Board In terface ***=0A*******************************************=0A=0A- A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Kitfox-List content.=0A- co ntent.- The Forums contain all of the same content available via the emai l=0A=0A- distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats su ch as the =0A- List Browse, etc.- Any posts on the web Forums will be c ross posted to the =0A- respective email List, and posts to the Email Lis t will be cross posted to =0A- the web Forums.=0A=0A- You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.=0A- If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you=0A- will need to Register.- This is a simple process that takes only a few=0A- minutes. - A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the=0A- ma in web Forums page.- Note that registering on the Forum web site also=0A - enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well.- You will also need to=0A=0A- Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the=0A- Email Distribution of the List, however.=0A=0A- The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:=0A =0A- - - - - - - - http://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A**** *****************************=0A*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***=0A******* **************************=0A=0AIn an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed =0Ainformation, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://wiki.matronics.com =0A=0AThe Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful inf ormation =0Afor other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an or dinary web page=0A=0Awhere the content needs to be submitted to Matronics f or inclusion, the Wiki =0Apermits the users to construct their own pages an d have them visible immediately.=0A=0AWhile constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be =0Acomfortable building pages.- In tha t case, simply prepare the text and any =0Aimages and email it to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - wiki-support@matronics.com=0A=0AOne of the vol unteers on that list will take your submission and construct =0Aa Wiki page for you.=0A=0AOften someone produces a particularly useful posting in emai l one one of the =0ALists that would be of general interest. In that case M atronics may take that =0Apost and convert it into a Wiki page.=0A=0A=0A*** ******************=0A*** List Archives ***=0A*********************=0A=0A- A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kitfox-List is=0A - available on line.- The archive file information is available via the =0A- Web and FTP in a number of forms.- Each are briefly described bel ow:=0A=0A=0A- * Kitfox-List.FAQ =0A=0A- - - - - - - Latest ve rsion of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question =0A- - - - - - - page (this document).=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete =0A =0A- - - - - - - Complete file with most of the email header in fo removed and =0A- - - - - - - page breaks inserted between messages.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-??- =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that =0A- - - - - - - can more easily handled.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-A rchive.digest.complete.zip =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Kitf ox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but =0A- - - - - - - i n PKZIP format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Ar chive.digest.complete.Z =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Kitfox- Archive.digest.complete file above, but in =0A- - - - - - - U NIX compress format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A=0A- Dow nload Via FTP=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com=0A- in the "/pub/Archives" dire ctory.- It is updated daily and can be found in=0A- a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives=0A=0A=0A- Do wnload Via Web=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archives are also availa ble via a web listing.- These can be found=0A- toward the bottom of the following web page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.ma tronics.com/archives=0A=0A=0A************************************** ****=0A* ** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***=0A******************************* ***********=0A=0A- All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also availa ble using the=0A- Email List Archive Browsing feature.- With this utili ty, all messages=0A- in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matron ics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox=0A=0A=0A****************** ******** ***************=0A**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***=0A************* ****************************=0A=0A- You can use the custom, high-performa nce Matronics Email List Search Engine=0A- to quickly locate and browse a ny messages that have been posted to the=0A- List.- The Engine allows t he user to easily search any of the currently=0A- available List archives .=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/search =0A=0A=0A****************************=0A*** File and Photo Share ***=0A**** ************************=0A=0A- With the Matronics Email List File and Ph oto Share you can share pictures=0A- and other data with members of the L ist without having to forward a =0A- copy of it to everyone.- To share your Files and Photos, simply email =0A- them to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - pictures@matronics.com=0A=0A- !! ==> Please inclu ding the following information with each submission:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - 1) Email Lists that they are related to.=0A- - - - - - - - - 2) Your Full Name.=0A- - - - - - - - - 3) Your Email Address.=0A- - - - - - - - - 4) One line Subject description.=0A- - - - - - - - - 5) Multi-l ine, multi-paragraph description of topic.=0A- - - - - - - - - 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file=0A=0A- Prior to p ublic availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned=0A- for viruses.- Please also note that the process of making the files and=0A- photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to =0A- process them every few days.=0A=0A- Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be=0A- sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new=0A- Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.=0A=0A- For a current list of available Pho toshares, have a look at the Main=0A- Index Page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/photoshare=0A=0A=0A*********** ***************=0A*** List Archive CDROM ***=0A************************** =0A=0A- A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that cont ains=0A- all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists.- The archives=0A- for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search=0A- engine written by a list member.- The CD is burne d the day you order it=0A- and will contain archive received- up to the last minute.- They make =0A- great gifts!=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM=0A=0A=0A**************** ******************=0A*** List Support Contributions ***=0A***************** *****************=0A=0A- The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.=0A- You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Ban ner ads, or any other form of=0A- annoying commercialism on either the Em ail Messages or the List web pages=0A- associated with the Matronics Emai l Lists.- Every year during November=0A- I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,=0A- I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they =0A- are comfortable.=0A=0A - I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during t he=0A- Fund Raiser to increase the participation.- The gifts are usuall y donated=0A- by companies that are themselves List members.=0A=0A- You r Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists=0A- including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server=0A- system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many=0A - many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the =0A- variety of services found here.=0A=0A- Generally Contributions ran ge from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary=0A- and non-compulsory. - I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains=0A- value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.=0A=0A- Contribut ions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just =0A- subscribed , feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.=0A=0A- The web site for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.- There are=0A - a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and =0A- sending a personal check.=0A=0A- If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to=0A- support its continued operatio n?=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/contri butions=0A=0A- Thank you!=0A- Matt Dralle=0A- Email List Administrato r=0A=0A=0A********************************************************* ******** *************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage G uidelines=0A*********************************************************** **** ***************=0A=0AThe following details the official Usage Guidelines fo r the Kitfox-List.=0AYou are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.=0AFailure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner descri bed below may result =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A =0A=0AKitfox-List Policy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-List is t o provide a forum of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular dis cussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resourc e to its members; to 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the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below.- The complete=0AKitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowing URL: =0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html=0A=0AThank you ,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A*********** *******************************************************************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines=0A******** **********************************************************************= 0A =0AThe following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List. =0AYou are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules there in.=0AFailure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner described below may resu lt =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0AKitfox-List Policy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a forum of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular discussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster cama raderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operation.- Reaching the se goals =0Arequires the participation and cooperation of each and every me mber of =0Athe List.- To this end, the following guidelines have been est ablished:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level .- Do not submit=0A- posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.=0A=0A- THIN K carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your post will be=0A- re levant to everyone.- If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A =0A- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive =0A- that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try to be conci se and=0A- terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts a nd=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Please include you r name, email address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geographic loca tion.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the building process is also nice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character graphics; they co nsume unnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is=0A- easily obtainable from ot her widely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page or FAQ first. =0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of=0A - your response the same as that of the original post.- This makes it =0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When responding, NEVER q uote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- DO use lines fro m the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the topic at hand , but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original po st has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated!=0A=0A- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT=0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the=0A- "reply" b utton on your mail package does not necessarily send your=0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to actively address=0A- your resp onse with the original poster's email address.=0A=0A- DO NOT use the List t o respond to a post unless you have something=0A- to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- "Way to go!", "I=0A- agree", and "Congratulat ions" are all responses that are better sent=0A- to the original poster d irectly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When responding to others ' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment on every last poi nt in their posts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valuable .=0A=0A- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone=0A - polite and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack =0A- other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously=0A- c ontroversial issue.- This will only cause a pointless debate that=0A- w ill hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A- Occasional p osts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- subscribed to a giv en List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members promotin g their respective products or items for sale =0A- should be of a friendl y, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typical SPAM message. - The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about sharing informa tion and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, including those who provide products to the entire =0A- community.- Informal presentation and moderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an automated posting.]=0A=0Ado 0A =0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:05 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver AKFLYERBOB -Equipment protection- SKUFF SAVER Item #TYC 7210 $2.95 per foot Protect the tops of your new skis or snowboard from scratches and gouges. This clear tough Dupont Surlyn tape is backed with a self-adhesive film for easy application and good bonding. It's 14" wide...enough to span any single snowboard or pair of skis and is sold by the linear foot. Simply order the length you need and trim the width with scissors to fit your needs. Quantity: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- Original Message ----- From: "AKFLYERBOB" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver > > > Larry > What material are you talking about? > I'm sure every one would like to know. > Bob > > -------- > Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska > KF Mod I and III > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#228098 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:02 PM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:37 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver I think the amount of "curl down" can be controlled by the amount that you press down between the tubes themselves....simply press more into the gap before pressing onto the tubes and it should stay there. I usually just lay it over the gap equally spaced on both sides and press it down. I didn't get too worried about whether it went up or down, although down would be preferred. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 9:08 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Larry, Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on > hand. That price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many > times I wanted some of that tape to protect paint on a car, > motorcycle tank, etc. I'll use it on the gap seal, Alla Lynn > Matteson top side only. Lynn, if that curls down into the gap, > rather than up, I don't know why anybody would use any other method. > do not archive > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > > From: asq@roadrunner.com > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver > > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500 > > > > > > > Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Larry Huntley" > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM > > Subject: Re: ski saver > > > > > > > > > > Yes, > > > check this link on our bags/racks page > > > http://www.tognar.com/ > bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html > > > The top item is the scuff saver tape, > > > Thanks, > > > Cat > > > www.tognar.com > > > > > > > > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley > asq@roadrunner.com > > > Ye > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > 6:02 PM==================== > >================ > > > > > > > > > > ======== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:09 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report Noel, If you are gap sealing your rudder,John McBean has a very nice contoured hard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizontal stab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber tape. I painted it and it looks nice .. Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:47 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "lowflyer" Guys, Please take a look at the following website. http://www.aerographic.com/gap_seal.htm These gap seals are used on Pitts and Eagle aircraft. They have been used on many others as well. There not too expensive, easy to install and they are removable and should last a long, long time! You can cut to length for your application and for fitting around hinges. My buddy uses them on his beautiful Pitts S2B. I will probably be getting some soon. Chris Budd N53RJ Kitfox IV Speedster VW 2180 240hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228155#228155 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:18 AM PST US From: Catz631@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Lowlead, That looks like an "X" job and a good one at that. I will have to try that when mine peels off. Dick Maddux Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:43 AM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I think had a small sample sheet of this material back in 1984 which I used to protect the front of a "chin" fairing on my Honda Interceptor. It had the characteristics you describe, clear, very tough, designed for protecting front of sporty cars paint from small rock chips. Rex Colorado M2/582 do not archive Lowlead wrote: > > Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames. > > Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice about this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with a very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' running the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). It's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor. > > The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position when tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..) > Hope this makes sense... > > Dan H. > > > rexinator wrote: > >> That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my >-< symbol and my >> little drawn image file. I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can >> you elaborate on how you applied so well? >> >> Rex >> Colorado M2/582 >> >> >> >> > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:43 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: air worthiness From: "dcsfoto" A DAR with the correct function code can issue a replacement. All you need is to have him look in the FAA files (cost us $3.00) obtain the info from the original. do a letter requesting a replacement. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228163#228163 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:55 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "darinh" John, As some have said, use the 3M clear product. I would bet you can find a car accessory shop that applies the "clear bra" to cars and they will sell you this stuff by the foot. I found several local places that had it in widths of 6", 12", 24", etc. I bought the 24" wide stuff and cut it to the length and width I needed for the intended use. I also applied it to the top side and wrapped it around the front of my landing gear for protection and to the front of the struts for about the first 4' from the fuse. The product is very tough, UV resistant and crystal clear...the adhesive works perfectly on painted surfaces and can be applied using a shot or two of Windex and a small squeegee to remove any air bubbles -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228179#228179 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:57 AM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape and where to get it ?? George ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:02 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox owner location map From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." Here's a great resource http://www.frappr.com/kitfox It's a dynamic push pin map with information about each Kitfox. It covers the whole world. This has Kitfoxen not just from the mail list but everyone. Put your push pin on the map! If everyone did, you'd be able to find others in your area easily. -------- Paul A. Franz, P.E. Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell 425.440.9505 Office Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228237#228237 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:12 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test Report Dick=2C Great picture of the tail of your plane. But=2C I'll be damned if I can see any gap seal. I Like your TR3 also. do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 09:57:11 -0500Subject: Re: Kit fox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test ReportTo: kit fox-list@matronics.com Noel=2C If you are gap sealing your rudder=2CJohn McBean has a very nice contoured hard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizo ntal stab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber tape. I painted it and it l ooks nice . Dick Maddux Pensacola=2CFl Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu ch more. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:11 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Lynn=2C Didn't you say you have elavator at full down and then apply tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would having some ta pe pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into the groove when eleva tor was raised?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jp s.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 08: 58:20 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message poste d by: Lynn Matteson > > I think the amount of "curl down" can be controlled by the amount > that you press down between the tubes th emselves....simply press more > into the gap before pressing onto the tubes and it should stay there. > I usually just lay it over the gap equally spa ced on both sides and > press it down. I didn't get too worried about wheth er it went up or > down=2C although down would be preferred.> > Lynn Mattes on> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Se nsenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and fl ying> > > > > On Feb 1=2C 2009=2C at 9:08 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > Larry=2C Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on > > hand . That price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many > > times I wanted some of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C > > motorcycle tank =2C etc. I'll use it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn > > Matteson top side onl y. Lynn=2C if that curls down into the gap=2C > > rather than up=2C I don't know why anybody would use any other method.> > do not archive> >> > Pat R eilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> >> >> >> >> > > From: asq@roa drunner.com> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: Kitfox-List: F w: ski saver> > > Date: Sun=2C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > >> > > --> Kitf ox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" > > > > >> > > Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: > > > To: "Larry Huntley" > > > Sent: Sunday=2C February 01=2C 2009 7:5 4 PM> > > Subject: Re: ski saver> > >> > >> > > >> > > > Yes=2C> > > > chec k this link on our bags/racks page> > > > http://www.tognar.com/ > > bags_r acks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html> > > > The top item is the s cuff saver tape=2C> > > > Thanks=2C> > > > Cat> > > > www.tognar.com> > > > > > > >> > > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley > > asq@r oadrunner.com> > > > Ye> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------- --------------------------------------------- > > ----------> > >> > >> > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com> > > 6:02 PM====== ===============> > >======= ==========> > >> > >> > >> >> > ====== === _- > > ================== ================ _- > > contribution_- > > ========================> _ ==> > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:16 PM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount the mount broke Ware it attaches to the vibration dampener on the rear pass enger side on my mod 2 w/582- 170 hrs airframe has this happened to anybo dy? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder - - malcolm --- On Mon, 2/2/09, George Wells wrote: From: George Wells Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape-and where to get it ?? George =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:07 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Posting videos From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" Maintaining video quality when posting is somewhat of a problem with YouTube. I discovered this site which has few if any ads and the video quality is excellent. The format is very nice with thumbnail images and a nice indexing scheme. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:27 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount Just a thought... I think after welding the joint has to be normalized to prevent it from cracking in the joint again. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Brubaker Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount the mount broke Ware it attaches to the vibration dampener on the rear passenger side on my mod 2 w/582 170 hrs airframe has this happened to anybody? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder malcolm --- On Mon, 2/2/09, George Wells wrote: From: George Wells Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape and where to get it ?? George D======================== ======== D======================== ======== D======================== ======== D======================== ======== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:33 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets From: "clemwehner" My flaperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs before the wing was covered. Now that the wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit flat onto the wing without putting considerable stress on the rivets at the rear of the bracket. This is because the wing trailing edge is now thicker because of the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo. Any suggestions on what to do. I can push hard and press the bracket down on to the wing surface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket. Any ideas? thanks for the help, -------- Clem Wehner Tulsa, OK Kitfox IV-912 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228263#228263 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4120_191.jpg ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:23 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver I put my tape on at full down, yes, and like you observed, just having a little "down into" radius will assure that it stays there when the 'vator is raised. I may try to apply some from the bottom side with the 'vator held up, and see how that works...along with the top being covered. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:06 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, Didn't you say you have elavator at full down and then apply > tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would > having some tape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into > the groove when elevator was raised? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:15 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Lynn=2C I was also wondering how covering both sides with your method of fu ll elevator up and down would work. I'm not to that stage yet. As a matter of fact I received today the RAC servo from ACS to use with Lowell Fitts tr im tab kit. So=2C I will be tearing my elevator apart. Have you got a trim tab on the elevator? Or=2C do you use the Flaperons to trim?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-Li st: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 22:01:43 -0500> To: kitfox-list@ @jps.net>> > I put my tape on at full down=2C yes=2C and like you observed =2C just > having a little "down into" radius will assure that it stays the re > when the 'vator is raised. I may try to apply some from the bottom > s ide with the 'vator held up=2C and see how that works...along with the > to p being covered.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabi ru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire igniti on system> New skis done and flying> do not archive> > > > On Feb 2=2C 2009 =2C at 8:06 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn=2C Didn't you say you hav e elavator at full down and then apply > > tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would > > having some tape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into > > the groove when elevator was raised?> > ==========> > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:19 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Factory-built trim tab with RAC servo. Using the flaperons for trim slows the plane down, which is why one of the Speedster mods was the electric trim. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:19 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, I was also wondering how covering both sides with your method > of full elevator up and down would work. I'm not to that stage yet. > As a matter of fact I received today the RAC servo from ACS to use > with Lowell Fitts trim tab kit. So, I will be tearing my elevator > apart. Have you got a trim tab on the elevator? Or, do you use the > Flaperons to trim? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaperon hinge brackets From: "Tom Jones" > My flaperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs before the wing was covered. Now that the wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit flat onto the wing without putting considerable stress on the rivets at the rear of the bracket. This is because the wing trailing edge is now thicker because of the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo. > > Any suggestions on what to do. I can push hard and press the bracket down on to the wing surface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket. Any ideas? Clem, The builder's manual says to fit and drill first then cover as you have done. Mine were a tight fit too. I set the flaperon in place then installed and tightened the hinge bolts to take the stress off the rear rivet before I squeezed the brackets tight to the rib with one hand and riveted with the other hand. The rear bracket rivets have held fine. I have had the flaperons off a couple times and the bracket bolt holes in the brackets line up perfect when I reinstall the flaperons. Also the bracket to rib rivets are holding tight. I rib laced and put no rib lacing reinforcement tape or rib finish tape under the brackets. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= http://www.matronics.com/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 From: sourdostan@aol.com One never knows! Last year at the Desert Fox Squadron fly-in, some talk cent ered around a trip this year. The fly-in is coming up the end of March, so w e might hear more. I've made the trip four times--twice in my Kitfox. What a re your plans/ideas, where are you located, what do you fly, have you been t o Alaska before, and who are you? Stan Specht Model IV Speedster 912ul (1440 hrs.) Lakewood, Colorado -----Original Message----- From: b gammon Sent: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:09 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 Is any one planning a "Kitfox" trip to Alaska this Summer? From: Kitfox-List Digest Server Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 11:59:05 PM Subject: Kitfox-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 02/02/09 * ======================== =C2- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ======================== Today's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below.=C2- The .html file includes the Digest formatt ed in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation.=C2- The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kitfox-List Digest and c an be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&V iew=html&Chapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox Text Version: =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&V iew=txt&Chapter 09-02-02&Archive=Kitfox ====================== =C2- EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ====================== =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------- ----------------- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - Kitfox-List Digest Archive =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- --- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/02/09: 22 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- ----------------------------------------- ----------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- =C2- =C2- 1. 12:04 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (Lowlead ) =C2- =C2- 2. 01:04 AM - Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09=C2 - (b gammon) =C2- =C2- 3. 03:55 AM - Re: Re: ski saver AKFLYERBOB=C2- (Larry Huntle y) =C2- =C2- 4. 06:02 AM - Re: Fw: ski saver=C2- (Lynn Matteson) =C2- =C2- 5. 07:01 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Re portElevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (Catz631@aol.com) =C2- =C2- 6. 07:03 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (lowflye r) =C2- =C2- 7. 07:05 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (Catz631 @AOL.COM) =C2- =C2- 8. 07:34 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (Rex inator) =C2- =C2- 9. 07:34 AM - Re: air worthiness=C2- (dcsfoto) =C2- =C2- 10. 09:41 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=C2- (darinh ) =C2- =C2- 11. 10:54 AM - Re: ski saver=C2- (George Wells) =C2- =C2- 12. 03:58 PM - Kitfox owner location map=C2- (Paul A. Franz, P.E.) =C2- =C2- 13. 04:45 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap S eal Test Report=C2- (patrick reilly) =C2- =C2- 14. 05:09 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver=C2- (patrick reilly) =C2- =C2- 15. 05:27 PM - Re: Kitfox broken motor mount=C2- (Malcolm Brubaker) =C2- =C2- 16. 05:44 PM - Posting videos=C2- (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) =C2- =C2- 17. 06:39 PM - Re: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount=C2- (Noel L oveys) =C2- =C2- 18. 06:55 PM - Flaperon hinge brackets=C2- (clemwehner) =C2- =C2- 19. 07:02 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver=C2- (Lynn Matteson) =C2- =C2- 20. 07:20 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver=C2- (patrick reilly) =C2- =C2- 21. 07:33 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver=C2- (Lynn Matteson) =C2- =C2- 22. 07:46 PM - Re: Flaperon hinge brackets=C2- (Tom Jones) ________________________________=C2- Message 1=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 12:04:06 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "Lowlead" Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the outboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames .. Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice abo ut this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) wit h a very slight 'drape' down and then firmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The n the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a pc of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. The two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' run ning the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). I t's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. There's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor. The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position whe n tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installation (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..) Hope this makes sense... Dan H. rexinator wrote: > That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my=C2- >-<=C2- symbo l and my > little=2 0drawn image file.=C2- I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can > you elaborate on how you applied so well? > > Rex > Colorado M2/582 > > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg ________________________________=C2- Message 2=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 01:04:57 AM PST US From: b gammon Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09 This is my first attempt to participate in the Kitfox discussions. =0AIs a n yone planning to fly a Kitfox to Alaska this Summer?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0 A________ ________________________=0AFrom: Kitfox-List Digest Server =0ATo: Kitfox-List Digest List =0ASent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:59:13 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List Diges t: 21 Msgs - 02/01/09=0A=0A*=0A=0A=========== = =============0A- Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive=0A================== =======0A=0AToday's complete Kitfox-List Digest can also be fou nd in either of the =0Atwo Web Links listed below.- The .html file includ es the Digest formatted =0Ain HTML for viewing with a web browser and feat u res Hyperlinked Indexes =0Aand Message Navigation.- The .txt file include s the plain ASCII version =0Aof the Kitfox-List Digest and can be viewed w i th a generic text editor =0Asuch as Notepad or with a web browser. 0A=0AHT ML Version:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Sty le=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0AText Vers ion:=0A=0A- - http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82 701&View=txt&Chapter 09-02-01&Archive=Kitfox=0A=0A=0A=== ====================0A- EMail Versi on of Today's List Digest Archive=0A============ ===========0A=0A=0A- - - - - ---------------- ------------------------------------------=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Digest Archive=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ---=0A- - - - - - - - - - Total Messages Posted Sun 02/01/09: 21=0A- - - - - ---------------------------------------------------------- =0A=0A=0AToday's Message Index:=0A----------------------=0A=0A- - 1. 06 :38 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Catz631@aol.com)=0A- - 2 . 09:02 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 3. 11:09 AM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 4. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Lynn Matteson) =0A- - 5. 12:02 PM - Kitfox with rotax fuel injection- (jason Parker) =0A- - 6. 02:02 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Randy Da ughenbaugh)=0A- - 7. 02:22 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (L ynn Matteson)=0A- - 8. 03:02 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Bob Brennan)=0A- - 9. 03:13 PM - Ski report/snow conditions- (Lynn M atteson)=0A- - 10. 03:19 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Lyn n Matteson)=0A- - 11. 03:24 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- ( Larry Huntley)=0A- - 12. 05:00 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report - (Noel Loveys)=0A- - 13. 05:05 PM - Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repor t- (Lowlead)=0A- - 14. 05:30 PM - Re: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo rt- (Lynn Matteson)=0A- - 15. 05:39 PM - Fw: ski saver- (Larry Hunt ley)=0A- - 16. 06:11 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (patrick reilly)=0A- - 17. 06:50 PM - Re: ski saver- (AKFLYERBOB)=0A- - 18. 08:17 PM - R e: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report- (Rexinator)=0A- - 19. 09:18 PM - Re: Fw: ski saver- (John Bonewitz)=0A- - 20. 11:08 PM - Official Ki tfox-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)- (Matt Dralle)=0A- - 21. 1 1:25 PM - Official Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines- (Matt Dralle)=0A=0A=0 A =0A________________________________- Message 1- _______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:38:03 AM PST US=0AFrom: Catz631@aol. com=0AS ubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0AThat foam we ath er striping sounds like a good idea. You could further refine =0Athis by p u tting a strip of teflon antichafe tape on the other side of the =0Aweather striping foam(oposite the adhesive side) or on the elevator leading edge=0 A =0Afor that mater. This stuff is real slick and I bought a roll of it from Spruce=0A=0Aas a cowling chafe tape a while back. It works real well.=0AOnl y thing is, in the heat the adhesive on weather strip tends to give way =0 A in to a goo.=0A- That sailplane tape looks interesting also=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dick Maddux=0A- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Pensacola,Fl.=0A**************From Wall Street to Main Street and everywhere in between, stay =0Aup-to-date with the latest news. (http: / /aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000023)=0A=0A_____________________________ ___ - Message 2- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:02 : 06 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kit fox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AOr you could attac h the seal, on the elevator side only with good old 1 in.=0AVelcro.=0A=0AAnother thing to try is to cover the leading edge of the elevator and rudder=0Awit h the plastic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when you=0Arem o ve the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A---- -Origin al Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto :ow ner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: S a turday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator G ap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AGood idea, but I'm from the camp that alwa ys wa nts to be able to take- =0Asomething apart if a problem arises. I guess i f a rock passed through- =0Athe elevator, you could always MEK the Vee of f from the elevator, and- =0Amaybe reattach it when the repairs were made . A longer process, by-=2 0=0Afar, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking .=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 220 0, #206 2, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system =0AN ew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propel ler D esign wrote:=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> You can use t hat, bu t why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the- =0A> middle and dope one Ve e to stab and other to elevator.=0A>=0A> Or use sail fabric that is air tig ht from start=0A>=0A> Jan=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetP ilot" =0A> To: =0A> Sent: F ri day, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap S e al Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to- =0A>> seal the gap ? ??- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look- =0A>> good !- Much b etter than tape.=0A>>=0A>> Mike=0A>>=0A>> --------=0A>> "NO F EAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast- =0A>> as you could have !!!=0A>>=0A>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> Read this t opic online here:=0A>>=0A>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p =2 27727#227727=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>>=0A>> __ ________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus- =0A>> s ignature database 3814 (20090131) __________=0A>>=0A>> The message was c hec ked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> 0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________- Message 3- _____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 11:09:12 AM PST US=0AFrom: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0ASunday afte rnoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...- Friday nights=0Anot t he best night of the week for me;-).- =0A=0AI agree the X system allows f or a light hinge on a model but a place for=0Agrass and leaves etc. To cat c h in the "Real thing".- =0A=0AWhat I was thinking at first was a couple o f pieces of say 2 1/2 inch tape=0Asewn right down the middle and then one h alf of each tape doped to the=0Astabilizers with the other halves just fin i shed to match the plane.- They=0Ashould be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a couple of=0Arough diagrams... emphasis on the t erm rough!=0A=0ANoel =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kit fox-lis t-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] O n Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:04 AM=0ASub je ct: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANope, no picture or drawing. Just visualize...after the inbibation- =0Awears off....the f lat surface of the stab and elevator, as viewed- =0Afrom the side/edge, w ith the tape starting on the top left, and- =0Acrossing to the bottom rig ht. (This of course assumes that you have- =0Aproperly made the tape with an inch of the sticky surfaces against- =0Aeach other so that the tape20c an- be stuck down on the top left and- =0Athe bottom right) Now another tape from the bottom left crossing to- =0Athe top right. Where they pass by each other, they form an "X". Then- =0Aimagine a piece of tape 2" wid e being placed from top of stab to- =0Abottom of elev. (top left to botto m right), and next to it another- =0Atape placed from bottom left to top right. Continue alternating tapes- =0Auntil gap is sealed. I can imagine how this would look on a full-size- =0Aplane, and I don't like what I ima gine. It worked fine on the models- =0Aand looked ok, and made an especia lly lightweight hinge. I personally- =0Adon't like the idea of this "over and under" tape application, as it- =0Aalways leaves a place where junk can collect, no matter which way you- =0Ado it. I much prefer to let the elevator hang down, apply the tape- =0Aacross the gap, and leave it at th at. I use "racer's tape" that I- =0Aordered in orange, which is the color of my plane in that area...the- =0Acolor is not a perfect match...howeve r, I can't see that mismatch- =0Awhen I'm flying and neither can anybody else. The owners of "hangar- =0Aqueens" would not like my reasoning, I'm sure.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition sys tem =0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Jan 30, 2009, at 8:20 PM, Noe l Lovey s wrote:=0A=0A> Lynn:=0A> do you have a picture or drawin g of the X system? =0A> Second inbibation is starting to cut in and I'm having a problem- =0A> visualizing your X setup.=0A>=0A> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A> --- On F ri, 1/30/09 , Lynn Matteson wrote:=0A> From: Lynn Matteson =0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A > T o: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Received: Friday, January 30, 2009, 6:11 P M=0A>=0A>=0A> If you really want to drive yourself nuts over this gap seali ng- =0A> issue, try the=0A> "X" method instead of the "Z" method. We use d the=0A> "X" method on our model planes.=0A> The "Z" method has been expl ai ned....from under (or over) the=0A> trailing portion of the hort. stab, to over (or under) the leading- =0A> portion of=0A> the elevator, forming a "Z" when view from the side. The "X"=0A> method is just alternating the pl a cement of lengths of 2" wide- =0A> tape, over=0A> and under, then under a nd over, etc., until the gap is sealed. In the=0A> "X" method, you make st r ips of tape that go, say, 2" wide and=0A> from front to back, instead of t h e "Z" method where you run the tape=0A> from side of elevator to hinge, th e n hinge to hinge, and so on.=0A> The jury is still out on whether this is a good method or not...how- =0A> 'bout=0A> some thoughts?=0A>=0A> As a n as ide, when this method is used in model planes, no hinge is- =0A> needed, as=0A> the plastic covering material itself is used for the "gap seals" an d =0A> in using t he "X" method, the elevator operates freely without the use =0A> of hinges...not recommended for "live-in" airplanes.=0A>=0A> Lynn Matt eson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> Ne w ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Paul Franz - Me rlin GT wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A> >=0A> > On Fri, Janu ary 30, 2009 7:28 am, kirk hull wrote:=0A> >> Does anybody have pictures of the ga p seal installation?=0A> >=0A> > I too would be interested in seeing pho tos . I'm interested in- =0A> details=0A> of shape,=0A> > overlap and what ha ppens to the slack when you run neutral or down=0A> elevator.=0A> >=0A > > D oes the slack start to peel a tiny bit on either the stabilizer- =0A> or the=0A> elevator with=0A> > dirt and debris sticking to the small expose d b it of adhesive?=0A> >=0A> > Which way is better to put them on - leading ed ge on top or- =0A> bottom of Get the name you've always wanted ! @ymail.c =0A> ====================== ============0A=0A=0A____________________________ ____ - Message 4- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:26 : 09 AM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kit fox -List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI just flew my plane today , and during the pre-flight20I noticed that- =0Athe gap-seal tape...orange Racer's Tape...that I applied on 10-5-2008- =0Ais still holding fast. I wrote the date onto the tape to keep track- =0Aof how well it held up. Th e same tape that I applied earlier...God- =0Aknows when...is also still h olding fas, so maybe we're overthinking- =0Athis gap-seal "problem." Of c ourse, mine is applied over the top of- =0Athe gap and nothing underneath , so the purists among us...you- know- =0Awho you are...would not buy t his fix.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJab iru 220 0, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition sy ste m=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 11:32 AM, No el Love ys wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> Or you could attach the seal, on the elevator sid e onl y with good- =0A> old 1 in.=0A> Velcro.=0A>=0A> Another thing to try is t o cover the leading edge of the elevator- =0A> and rudder=0A> with the p l astic tape then attach the gap seal to that tape so when- =0A> you=0A> r e move the seal you don't disturb the dope under it.=0A>=0A> Noel=0A>=0A> --- --Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com =0A > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A> Matteson=0A> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 8:12 AM=0A> To: kitfox-lis t@ matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Rep o rt=0A>=0A>=0A> Good idea, but I'm from the camp that always wants to b e abl e to take=0A> something apart i f a problem arises. I guess if a rock passed through=0A> the elevator, you could always MEK the Vee off from the elevat or, and=0A> maybe reattach it when the repairs were made. A longer process , by=0A> far, than the tape method, but cleaner-looking.=0A>=0A> Lynn Mattes on=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hr s =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> Ne w ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Jan 31, 2009, at 2:37 AM, JC Propelle r Des ign wrote:=0A>=0A>> =0A>>=0A>> You can use that, but why not take 2 pieces sewn together at the=0A>> middle and dope one Ve e to stab and other to elevator.=0A>>=0A>> Or use sail fabric that is air ti ght from start=0A>>=0A>> Jan=0A>> ----- Original Message ----- From: " JetPi lot"- =0A>> =0A>> To: =0A>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 9:18 PM=0A>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> =0A> >>=0A>>> Why not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to =0A >>> seal the gap ???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look=0A>>> g ood !- Much better than tape.=0A>>>=0A>>> Mike=0A>>>=0A>>> -------- =0A>>> "NO FEAR" -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast=0A>>> as you could have !!!=0A>>>=0A>>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A>>>=0A>> >=0A>>> =0A>>>=0A>>> Read this topic online here:=0A>>>=0A>>> http://forums.matroni cs.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#2277273D0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>> >=0A>>> =0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus=0A>>> signature database 3814 (20090131) _____ _____=0A>>>=0A>>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.=0A> >>=0A >>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A___ _____________________ ________- Message 5- _____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATim e : 12:02:53 PM PST US=0AFrom: jason Parker =0ASubje ct: Kitfox-List: Kitfox with rotax fuel injection=0A=0Awww.youtube.com/watch ?v =tUrFJi93MIo=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=nhiMjZGP-=0ADk=0Awww.youtub e .com/watch?v=cD4_27rMX6Q=0Awww.youtube.com/watch?v=XEGx=0A== ======================0A=0A___ ___ __________________________- Message 6- ________________________________ _____=0A=0A=0ATime: 02:02:20 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Randy Daughenbaugh" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Rep o rt=0A=0A=0AMike,=0AUnless you get all the coats and cross coats of p oly spr ay on it it won't=0Alast more than a year or two in the sun.- Maybe that is permanent enough,=0Abut I worry that with all the flexing, and enough c o ats or polyspray, it=0Awill crack.=0A=0ARandy=0A=0A=0A-----Origi nal Message -----=0AFrom: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox -list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot=0ASent: Friday, January 3 0, 2009 1:19 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report =0A=0A=0AWhy not just use a piece of PolyFiber attached with Polytack to se al the gap=0A???- It would be permanent, easy to do, and look good !- M uch better than=0Atape.=0A=0AMike=0A=0A--------=0A"NO FEAR& quot; -- If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you=0Acould have !!!=0A =0AKol b MK-III Xtra, 912-S=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahtt p://forum s.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227727#227727=0A=0A=0A______________ _____ _____________- Message 7- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 02:22:29 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0 ASubj ect: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catc her" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space t hat wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a spa ce underneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane o therwise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedst er, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElec troai r direct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can v isu alize the X system easy now...- 3D0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light h in ge on a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch i n the "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of p ie ces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves j u st finished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough di agrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________- Message 8- _____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 03:02:08 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Bob Brennan" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A =0AI' m glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0A t his topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture of =0Amy plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on t h e=0Atop side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the p lane.=0AI assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the p lane=0Aincluding the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I am=0Agradually replacing since it peels.=0A=0AI was hesitant to post m y me thod since no one else had admitted here to that=0Asimple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the=0Agaps, installed with th e elevator fully down. With the elevator up it tucks=0Aneatly into the gap .. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not=0Aaccumulate anythin g, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0Apre-flight.=0A=0ASo far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority on=0Athe short-field-over-trees grass strip that I use. Before sealing the gap my=0 A slowest approach speed was determined by when I started losing pitch contro l=0Aversus stall speed, which made it tough to flare properly. Possibly th e =0Aunder-cambered wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more noticeabl e on=0Aa Model 2 than later Models.=0A=0ABob Brennan - N717GB=0AELSA R epairm an, inspection rated=0A1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0ARotax 582 with 3 bl ade prop=0AWrightsville Pa- =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: own er-k itfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matroni c s.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0ASub jec t: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass c atche r" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of a pplying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to ov er the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space tha t wants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" me thod. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to ov er the back" method....ye s it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane oth erwise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroa ir d irect-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 200 9, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visu ali ze the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night o f the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hing e on a model but a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in t h e "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pie ces of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagr ams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A________________ ___ _____________- Message 9- _____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 03:13:42 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0 ASubj ect: Kitfox-List: Ski report/snow conditions=0A=0A=0ALast week I had a "ski tuck" due to the bungees not being set to a- =0Ahigh enough initial tens ion. This week I cut 2" from them=2 0and- =0Areinstalled and test flew them - yesterday and today, and could not- =0Aget it to happen again. Admitt edly, I wasn't really giving it what- =0Acould be considered an acrobatic test, but I made some (weak) dives- =0Aand pull-ups, and couldn't get th e ski, or skis, to drop or tuck. I- =0Aeven flew in bumpy-bangy air. I ha d made a tension check before and- =0Aafter the shortening, and I picked up about 8 pounds of tension per- =0Acord, or 16 pounds per ski.=0A=0AI f lew today to test the condition of the snow.- Last week when I- =0Atrie d to leave here to go to Oshkosh, the snow was so wet and heavy- =0Athat I could not get over 20 mph on the takeoff roll. This was after- =0A2 day s of above freezing temps...34-36 degrees F. Today, the- =0Aconditions we re the same...overnight of over freezing, and 34 F when- =0AI took off. I t took a bit of coaxing, but I got up alright, and- =0Alanded at 4 differ ent snow-covered grass strips. It was the same at- =0Aall strips...a bit longer than normal (most ski takeoffs take more- =0Arunway, I've read), b ut doable. When I stopped for lunch, I parked in- =0Amy own tracks, then 30 minutes later just rocked the plane a bit- =0Abefore fire-up, firewall ed it, and away I went, taxiing to the- =0Arunway...slowly. I used up abo ut 1100 feet of a crosswind, no-tracks- =0Arunway before giving up and tr ying it on a snowmobile-trodden runway- =0Ainto the wind. It still took a bout 300 feet before it got off the- =0Aground due to the sticky snow con ditions.=0A=0AAn article I had read (National Research Council of Canada ) t alked- =0Aabout "snow friction" in this way:=0A=0A"Early in the tests, it was found that sliding resistance and- =0Aadhesion were far more depende nt upon snow conditions than on the- =0Adesign of the ski. Further, the s kiing quality of the snow changed- =0Acontinually and it was not unusual to observe marked changes taking- =0Aplace in less than an hour. The publ ication notes that there are- =0Atimes when the sliding resistance of air craft skis is so great that- =0Ait is impossible to reach flying speed." =0A=0AI'm having a blast test-flying my skis, and seeing first-hand how- =0Asome of the writings that I studied while building them have merit.=0 A =0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 6 05 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANe w ski s done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5:17 P M, Lynn Matteson wrote:=0A=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with eit her the "X" or the- =0A> "Z" (or "S") method of applying tape...whether you a pply the tape- =0A> from "under the front to over the back" or vice versa , there will- =0A> always be a wedge of space that wants to collects debr is. It's just- =0A> harder to get out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented- =0A> myself with the "over the front to over the back" method. ...yes- 3D0A> it's aerodynamically dirty, having a space underneath that c an eddy- =0A> air, but have we a really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0 A> Your diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost - =0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taild ragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electro air d irect-fire ignition system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now...- =0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the bes t night of the week for me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a- =0A>> place for=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2- =0A>> inch tape=0A>> sewn right down the m iddle and then one half of each tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizer s with the other halves just finished to match the- =0A>> plane.- They =0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a - =0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0 A>> =0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Mes sage 10 - ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 03:19:35 PM PST U S =0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: El eva tor Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI just tape up to the hinges, then ta pe ag ain on t he other side of- =0Athe hinge...all on the top-to-top surfaces.. .I'm gettin' too old to- =0Abend down and look under there, Bob. : )=0A =0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #20 62, 6 05 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0ANe w ski s done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 5:57 P M, Bob Brennan wrote:=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> I'm glad to see someone else used the just-tape-over-the-top- =0A> method. When=0A> this topic came up a few months ago I noticed on a magazine cover- =0A> pictur e of=0A> my plane I have for my desktop that at that time it had black tap e - =0A> on the=0A> top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there wh e n I bought- =0A> the plane.=0A> I assume it was wide electrical tape whi c h is *everywhere* on the- =0A> plane=0A> including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which- =0A> I am=0A> gradually replacing si n ce it peels.=0A>=0A> I was hesitant to post my method since no one else had admitted- =0A> here to that=0A> simple method. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside- =0A> of the=0A> gaps, installed with the elev ator fully down. With the elevator up- =0A> it tucks=0A> neatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it- =0A> would not=0A> acc u mulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on=0A> pre-fli g ht.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a d ifference to control - =0A> authority on=0A> the short-field-over-trees grass strip that I us e . Before sealing- =0A> the gap my=0A> slowest approach speed was determi n ed by when I started losing- =0A> pitch control=0A> versus stall speed, w hich made it tough to flare properly. Possibly- =0A> the=0A> under-cambe r ed wings and smaller tail made the gap seals more- =0A> noticeable on=0A > a Model 2 than later Models.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N717GB=0A> ELSA Rep airm an, inspection rated=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 b lade prop=0A> Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-serve r @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn- =0A> Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 February 2 0 09 5:18 pm=0A> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-Lis t: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the p roble m with either the "X" or the "Z" (or=0A> "S") method of applying tape...wh e ther you apply the tape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vic e versa, there will always be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects de bris. It's just harder to get=0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I've c o ntented myself with the=0A> "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically=0A> dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy ai r, but have we a=0A> really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diag rams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0 A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> J abiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire igni tio n system=0A> New skis done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 P M, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X s ystem easy now...=0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the best night of the week fo r me;-).=0A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a mo del but a=0A>> place for=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real th in g".=0A>>=0A>> What I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2=0A>> inch tape=0A>> sewn right down the middle and then one half of eac h tape doped to- =0A>> the=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just f i nished to match the=0A>> plane.- They=0A>> should be stiff enough to sea l the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a=0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>>=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A___ ____________ _________________- Message 11- ____________________________________=0A =0A=0ATime: 03:24:36 PM PST US=0AFrom: "Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AI did th at with ski saver. Worked fin and not too complicated for my brain. =0AI c a n make decent 3pt landings with the Soob on front and no =0Aflaps----Barely , But it works.- - Larry 4-1200 Soob=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "Bob Brennan" =3 D0ASent: Sunday, Februar y 01, 2009 5:57 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Repo r t=0A=0A=0A> =0A>=0A> I'm glad to see s omeone el se used the just-tape-over-the-top method. When=0A> this topic came up a f e w months ago I noticed on a magazine cover picture =0A> of=0A> my plane I h ave for my desktop that at that time it had black tape on the=0A> top side of the stabiliser gap, which was not there when I bought the =0A> plane. =0A > I assume it was wide electrical tape which is *everywhere* on the plane =0A> including the leading edges and vertical stabiliser gap, and which I a m=0A> gradually replacing since it peels.=0A>=0A> I was hesitant to po st my method since no one else had admitted here to =0A> that=0A> simple metho d. I used a yellow duct tape across the entire topside of the=0A> gaps, insta lled with the elevator fully down. With the elevator up it =0A> tucks=0A > n eatly into the gap. I chose the top instead of the bottom so it would not =0A> accumulate anything, and left the bottom open to see the hinges on =0A> pre-flight.=0A>=0A> So far it has lasted a season and made a difference to control authority =0A> on=0A> the short-field-over-trees grass strip tha t I use. Before sealing the gap =0A> my=0A> slowest approach speed was det erm ined by when I started losing pitch =0A> control=0A> versus stall speed, wh ich made it tough to flare properly. Possibly the=0A> under-cambered wings and smalle r tail made the gap seals more noticeable =0A> on=0A> a Model 2 t han later Models.=0A>=0A> Bob Brennan - N717GB=0A> ELSA Repairman, ins pecti on rated=0A> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox=0A> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop =0A > Wrightsville Pa=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-k itfox -list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics. c om] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson=0A> Sent: 01 February 2009 5:18 pm=0A> To : k itfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal T e st Report=0A>=0A>=0A> The "grass catcher" is the problem with either the "X " or the "Z" (or=0A> "S") method of applying tape...whether you apply the t ape from "under=0A> the front to over the back" or vice versa, there will a lways be a=0A> wedge of space that wants to collects debris. It's just har d er to get=0A> out of the "X" method. That's why I've contented myself with the=0A> "over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamical l y=0A> dirty, having a space underneath that can eddy air, but have we a =0A> really "clean" plane otherwise?=0A>=0A> Your diagrams are very understan da ble, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost=0A> Saturday? : )=0A>=0A> Lynn Ma tteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs =0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-fire ignition system=0A> Ne w ski s done and flying=0A>=0A>=0A> On Feb 1, 2009, at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote :=0A>=0A>> Sunday afternoon and I can visualize the X system easy now... =0A0A>> Friday nights=0A>> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0 A>>=0A>> I agree the X system allows for a light hinge on a model but a=0A>> place fo r=0A>> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>>=0A>> W hat I was thinking at first was a couple of pieces of say 2 1/2=0A>> inch tape =0A>> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to t h e=0A>> stabilizers with the other halves just finished to match the=0A>> pl ane.- They=0A>> should be stiff enough to seal the gaps in flight.- I'l l attach a=0A>> couple of=0A>> rough diagrams... emphasis on the term ro ugh !=0A>>=0A>> Noel=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A----------------------------- ------------- --------------------------------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www. avg.com=0A6:02 PM=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 12- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:00:25 PM PST US =0AFr om: "Noel Loveys" =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevat o r Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0ANot lost just out of town until later l ast n ight.=0A=0AWhat did you think of the idea of using Velcro (just on the r udd er)- Would=0Amake it easy to clean and also easy to remove the rudder for repairs due to=0Ahangar rash.=0A=0AI'm going to try a gap seal this sp ring when I get the plane out again.- At=0Aleast on the rudder to try to give me more authority for slips.- Those big=0Afloats hanging three feet or m ore below the CG really want to right the=0Aplane.- So far I've been givi ng full ruddr and controlling the slip with the=0Aailerons.- Even doing t hat the slip is more gentle than what I can get with=0Ano problems from a C -172.=0A=0ANoel=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-kitf ox-list-s erver@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On B e half Of Lynn Matteson=0ASent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 6:48 PM=0ASubjec t: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A=0A=0AThe "grass catc her" is the problem with either the "X" or the "Z" (or- =0A"S") method of appl ying tape...whether you apply the tape from "under- =0Athe front to over the back" or vice versa, there will always be a- =0Awedge of space that w ants to collects debris. It's just harder to get- =0Aout of the "X" metho d. That's why I've contented myself with the- =0A"over the front to over the back" method....yes it's aerodynamically- =0Adirty, having a space un derneath that can eddy air, but have we a- =0Areally "clean" plane otherw ise?=0A=0AYour diagrams are very understandable, Noel...good job.- - - - Lost- =0ASaturday? : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroa ir di rect-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 1, 2009 , at 1:57 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:=0A=0A> Sunday afternoon and I can visua liz e the X system easy now...- =0A> Friday nights=0A> not the best night of the week for me;-).=0A>=0A> I agree the X system allows for a light hing e o n a model b ut a- =0A> place for=0A> grass and leaves etc. To catch in the "Real thing".=0A>=0A> What I was thinking at first was a couple of piece s of say 2 1/2- =0A> inch tape=0A> sewn right down the middle and then one half of each tape doped to the=0A> stabilizers with the other halves just f inished to match the- =0A> plane.- They=0A> should be stiff enough to s eal the gaps in flight.- I'll attach a- =0A> couple of=0A> rough diagra ms... emphasis on the term rough!=0A>=0A> Noel=0A=0A=0A___________ _________ ____________- Message 13- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0 A Time: 05:05:11 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Tes t Report=0AFrom: "Lowlead" =0A=0A=0AI use a 3M 337 2 poly urethane surface protection tape applied on both top and bottom=0Aof the g a p (previous posts shown as >-=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0 A=0Ahtt p://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A=0A=0AAttac hment s: =0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A=0A =0A______ __________________________- Message 14- _______________________________ _____=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:30:02 PM PST US=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report=0A =0A=0A That's a good-looking job, LL.=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedste r, ta ildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair dire ct-fire ignition system=0ANew skis done and flying=0Ado not archive=0A =0A =0AOn Feb 1, 2009, at 8:01 PM, Lowlead wrote:=0A=0A>=0A > I use a 3M 3372 po lyurethane surface protection tape applied on- =0A> both top and bottom o f the gap (previous posts shown as >-=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic onli ne he re:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084 =0A> =0A>=0A> Attachments:=0A>=0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gap seal1_1 41.jpg=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 1 5- __ __________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 05:39:40 PM PST US =0AFrom: "Larry Huntley" =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver =0A=0A=0AJust received this. Does it sound like the same material?- La rry =0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: =0ASent : Sunda y, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM=0ASubject: Re: ski saver=0A=0A=0A>=0A > Yes,=0A > check this link on our bags/racks page=0A> http://www.tognar.com/bags_rac ks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html=0A> The top item is the scuff saver tape,=0A> Thanks,=0A> Cat=0A> www.tognar.com=0A>=0A>=0A>>; Do you stil l have "ski saver" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A> Ye=0A> =0A=0A=0A------------------------------------------------------------- ----- --------------=0A=0A=0AChecked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A6:02 PM =0A=0A =0A________________________________- Message 16- ______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 06:11:13 PM PST US=0AFrom: patrick reil ly =0ASubject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A=0A=0ALar ry=2C Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on hand. Th =0Aat price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are ma ny times I wante d s=0Aome of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C motorcycle tank=2C etc. I'll =0Ause it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn Matteson top side only. Lynn=2C if that=0Acurls down into the gap=2C rather than up=2C I don ' t know why anybody woul=0Ad use any other method.=0Ado not archive Pat R eil lyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: asq@roadrun=0Aner.com> To: kitf o x-list@matronics.com> Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver=0A> Date: Sun =2 C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > --> Kitfox-List message posted =0Aby: "Larr y Huntley" > > Just received this. Does it sou=0And like the same material? Larry> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Larry Huntley" > Sent: Sunday=2C =0AFebruary 01=2C 2009 7:54 PM> Subject: Re: ski saver> > > >> > Yes=2 C > > che=0Ack this link on our bags/racks page> > http://www.tognar.com/bag s _racks_boo=0At_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html> > The top item is the scuff saver t=0Aape=2C> > Thanks=2C> > Cat> > www.tognar.com>; >> >> > > Do you still have "s=0Aki saver" tape? Larry Huntley asq@roadrunner.com> > Ye> >> > > ------------=0A------------------------------------------------- -------------------> > > >=0A=====> > > =0A=0A______________ _____ _____________- Message 17- ____________________________________=0A=0A =0ATime: 06:50:23 PM PST US=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver=0AFr om: " AKFLYERBOB" =0A=0A=0ALarry=0AWhat materi al are you talking about?=0AI'm sure eve ry one would like to know.=0ABob=0A=0A---- ----=0ABob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska=0AKF Mod I and III=0A=0A=0ARead this top ic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22809 8#2 28098=0A=0A=0A________________________________- Message 18- __________ _ _________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 08:17:28 PM PST US=0AFrom: R exinato r =0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal T est Report=0A=0A=0AThat's exactly what I was trying to describe with m y- >-<- symbol and my =0Alittle drawn image file.- I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Can =0Ayou elaborate on how you applied so well?=0A=0 ARex =0AColorado M2/582=0A=0A=0ALowlead wrote:=0A>=0A> I use a 3M 337 2 polyureth ane surface protection tape applied on both top and=0Abottom of the gap (p r evious posts shown as >-=0A>=0A>=0A> Read this topic online here:=0A > http: //forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228084#228084=0A>=0A>=0A> Att achme nts: =0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal1_141.jpg=0A>- =0A =0A =0A________________________________- Message 19- ______________________ ______________=0A=0A=0ATime: 09:18:50 PM PST US=0ASubject: Re: Kitfo x-List: Fw: ski saver=0AFrom: John Bonewitz =0A=0AWe have a wi nner! I'm going to order some of this stuff. There are probably=0Alots of o ther uses besides gap seal.=0A=0AThanks,=0AJohn Bonewitz=0ASeries 5 =0A=0AOn Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Larry Huntley wrote:=0A =0A>=0A> Just received this. Does it sound like the same material?- Larr y =0A>=0A> ----- Original Message ----- From: =0A> To: "Larr y Huntley" =0A> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM =0A> Subject: Re: ski saver=0A>=0A>=0A>> Yes,=0A>> check this link on our b ags/racks page=0A>> http://www.tognar.com/bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snow b oard_accessory.html=0A>> The top item is the scuff saver tape,=0A>> Than ks, =0A>> Cat=0A>> www.tognar.com=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>- Do you still have "s ki save r" tape?- Larry Huntley- asq@roadrunner.com=0A>>>=0A>> Ye=0A>>=0A>> =0A> =0A>=0A> --------------------------------------------------------------- --- --------------=0A>=0A>=0A> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com=0A> 6 :02 PM =0A>=0A>=0A=0A________________________________- Message 20- ___________ _________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:08:00 PM PST US=0AFrom: M att Dra lle =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Official Kitfox-List FA Q (Frequently Asked Questions)=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APlease rea d over t he Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below.- The=0Acomplete Ki tfox-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowi n g URL:=0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html=0A =0ATha nk you,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0 A=0A[ Not e: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as=0 A - 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enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well.- You will also need to=0A=0A- Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive t he=0A- Email Distribution of the List, however.=0A=0A- The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:=0A =0A- - - - - - - - http://forums.matronics.com=0A=0A=0A**** *****************************=0A*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***=0A**** *** **************************=0A=0AIn an attempt to make it easy to store a nd find structured and often accessed =0Ainformation, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - http://wiki.matronics.com =0A=0AThe Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful inf ormation =0Afor other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an o r dinary web page=0A=0Awhere the content needs to be submitted to Matronic s f or inclusion, the Wiki =0Apermits the users to construct their own pages a n d have them visible immediately.=0A=0AWhile constructing pages for the W iki is not difficult, some may not be =0Acomfortable building pages.- In tha t case, simply prepare the text and any =0Aimages and email it to:=0A =0A- - - - - - - - wiki-support@matronics.com=0A=0AOne of the vol unteers on that list will take your submission and construct =0Aa Wiki pag e for you.=0A=0AOften someone produces a particularly useful posting in em ai l one one of the =0ALists that would be of general interest. In that case M atronics may take that =0Apost and convert it into a Wiki page.=0A=0A =0A*** ******************=0A*** List Archives ***=0A*********************=0A =0A- A file containing of all of the previous postings to th e Kitfox-List is=0A - available on line.- The archive file information is available via the =0A- Web and FTP in a number of forms.- Each are briefly described bel ow:=0A=0A=0A- * Kitfox-List.FAQ =0A=0A- - - - - - - Latest ve rsion of the Kitfox-List Frequently Asked Question =0A- - - - - - - page (this document).=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Archive.digest.complete =0A =0A- - - - - - - Complete file with most of the email header in fo removed and =0A- - - - - - - page breaks inserted between messages.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Archive.digest.vol-??- =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that =0A- - - - - - - can more easily handled.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-A rchive.digest.complete.zip =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Kitf ox-Archive.digest.complete file above, but =0A- - - - - - - i n PKZIP format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A- * Kitfox-Ar chive.digest.complete.Z =0A=0A- - - - - - - Same as the Kitfox- Archive.digest.complete file above, but in =0A- - - - - - - U NIX compress format.- Use "binary" data transfer methods.=0A=0A=0A- Do w nload Via FTP=0A- ----------------=0A=0A- The archive file is availabl e via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com=0A- in the "/pub/Archives" dire ctory.- It is updated daily and can be found in=0A- a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives=0A=0A=0A- Do wnload Via Web=0A- -------------- --=0A=0A- The archives are also availa ble via a web listing.- These can be found=0A- toward the bottom of the following web page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.ma tronics.com/archives=0A=0A=0A***************************************** *=0A* ** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***=0A****************************** * ***********=0A=0A- All messages posted to the Kitfox-List are also avail a ble using the=0A- Email List Archive Browsing feature.- With this utili ty, all messages=0A- in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matron ics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kitfox=0A=0A=0A********************* ***** ***************=0A**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***=0A********** *** ****************************=0A=0A- You can use the custom, high-perform a nce Matronics Email List Search Engine=0A- to quickly locate and browse a ny messages that have been posted to the=0A- List.- The Engine allows t he user to easily search any of the currently=0A- available List archives .=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/search =0A=0A=0A****************************=0A*** File and Photo Share *** =0A**** ************************=0A=0A- With the Matronics Email List File and P h oto Share you can share pictures=0A- and other data with members of the L ist without having to forward a =0A- copy of it to everyone.- To share your Files and Photos, simply email =0A- them to:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - pictures@matronics.com=0A=0A- !! ==> Please inclu ding th e following information with each submission:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - 1) Email Lists that they are related to.=0A- - - - - - - - - 2) Your Full Name.=0A- - - - - - - - - 3) Your Email Address.=0A- - - - - - - - - 4) One line Subject description.=0A- - - - - - - - - 5) Multi-l ine, multi-paragraph description of topic.=0A- - - - - - - - - 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file=0A=0A- Prior to p ublic availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned=0A- for viruses.- Please also note that the process of making the files and=0A- photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to =0A- process them every few days.=0A=0A- Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be=0A- sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new=0A- Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.=0A=0A- For a current list of available Pho toshares, have a look at the Main=0A- Index Page:=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/photoshare=0A=0A=0A*********** ***************=0A*** List Archive CDROM ***=0A************************* * =0A=0A- A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that con t ains=0A- all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists.- The archives=0A- for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search=0A- engine written by a list member.- The CD is burne d the day you order it=0A - and will contain archive received- up to the last minute.- They make =0A- great gifts!=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM=0A=0A=0A**************** ******************=0A*** List Support Contributions ***=0A************** *** *****************=0A=0A- The Matronics Lists are run *completely* throug h the support of it members.=0A- You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Ban ner ads, or any other form of=0A- annoying commercialism on either the Em ail Messages or the List web pages=0A- associated with the Matronics Emai l Lists.- Every year during November=0A- I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,=0A- I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they =0A- are comfortable.=0A =0A - I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during t he=0A- Fund Raiser to increase the participation.- The gifts are usuall y donated=0A- by companies that are themselves List members.=0A=0A- Yo u r Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists=0A- including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server=0A- system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many=0A - many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the =0A- variety of services found here.=0A=0A- Generally Contributions ran ge from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary=0A- and non-compulsory. - I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains=0A- value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.=0A=0A- Contribut ions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just =0A- subscribed , feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.=0A=0A- The we b site for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below.- There are=0A - a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and =0A- sending a personal check.=0A=0A- If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to=0A- support its continued operatio n?=0A=0A- - - - - - - - - http://www.matronics.com/contri butions=0A=0A- Thank you!=0A- Matt Dralle=0A- Email List Administrato r=0A=0A=0A************************************************************ ***** *************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage G uidelines=0A************************************************************** * ***************=0A=0AThe following details the official Usage Guidelines fo r the Kitfox-List.=0AYou are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.=0AFailure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner descr i bed below may result =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List. =0A =0A=0AKitfox-List Policy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-Li st is t o provide a forum of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular di s cussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resourc e to its members; to deliver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral supp o rt; to foster camaraderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operati o n.- Reaching these goals =0Arequires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of =0Athe List.- To this end, the following guidel ines have been established:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level.- Do not submit=0A- posts concerning computer viruse s, urban legends, random humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc . etc.=0A=0A- THINK carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your po s t will be=0A- relevant to everyone.- If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A=0A- Remember that your post will be included for poste rit y in an archive=0A- that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try to be concise and=0A- terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Pl e ase include your name, email address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the build ing process is also nice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character gr aphics; they consume unnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON' T p ost requests to the List for information when that info is=0A- easily obt ainable from other widely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page or FAQ first.=0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subj ect :" line of=0A- your response the same as that of the original post.- Th is makes it=0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When respo ndi ng, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- DO us e lines from the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the to pic at hand, but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated! =0A=0A- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NO T =0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the =0A- "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your =0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to actively addre ss=0A- your response with the original poster's email address.=0A=0A- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something=0A- to ad d that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- "Way to go!", "I=0A- agree" , and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent=0A- to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When re sponding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valuable.=0A=0A- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone=0A- polite and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack=0A- other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously=0A- controversial issue.- This will only cause a pointless de bate that=0A- will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0 A =0A- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- s u bscribed to a given List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members promoting their respective products or items for sale =0A- shoul d be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typic al SPAM message.- The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about sharing information and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, inc luding those who provide products to the entire =0A- community.- Inform al presentation and moderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an auto mated po sting.]=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A______________________________ __- Mes sage 21- ____________________________________=0A=0A=0ATime: 11:25:19 PM P ST US=0AFrom: Matt Dralle =0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Of ficial Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines=0A=0A=0ADear Listers,=0A=0APle ase read over the Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines below.- The complete=0AKitfox-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the=0Afollowing URL: =0A=0A- http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kitfox-List.FAQ.html=0A=0AThan k you ,=0A=0AMatt Dralle=0AMatronics Email List Administrator=0A=0A=0A *********** *******************************************************************=0A- - - - - - - - - - Kitfox-List Usage Guidelines=0A******** **********************************************************************=0A =0AThe following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kitfox-List .. =0AYou are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules there in.=0AFailure to use the Kitfox-List in the manner d escribed below may resu lt =0Ain the removal of the subscribers from the List.=0A=0A=0AKitfo x-List Policy Statement=0A=0AThe purpose of the Kitfox-List is to provide a for um of discussion for=0Athings related to this particular discussion group.- The List's goals=0Aare to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver=0Ahigh-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster cam a raderie=0Aamong its members; and to support safe operation.- Reaching the se goals =0Arequires the participation and cooperation of each and every m e mber of =0Athe List.- To this end, the following guidelines have been est ablished:=0A=0A=0A- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level .- Do not submit=0A- posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long=0A- lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.=0A=0A- THIN K carefully before you write.- Ask yourself if your post will be=0A- re levant to everyone.- If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.=0A =0A- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive =0A- that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate.- Try to be conci se and=0A- terse in your posts.- Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts a nd=0A- responses.=0A=0A- Keep your signature brief.- Please include yo u r name, email address,=0A- aircraft type/tail number, and geographic loca tion.- A short line=0A- about where you are in the building process is also nice.- Avoid=0A- bulky signatures with character graphics; they co nsume u nnecessary=0A- space in the archive.=0A=0A- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is=0A- easily obtainable from ot her widely available sources.- Consult the=0A- web page or FAQ first. =0A=0A- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of=0A - your response the same as that of the original post.- This makes it =0A- easy to find threads in the archive.=0A=0A- When responding, NEVE R q uote the *entire* original post in your=0A- response.- DO use lines fro m the original post to help "tune in" the=0A- reader to the topic at hand , but be selective.- The impact that=0A- quoting the entire original po st has on the size of the archive =0A- can not be overstated!=0A=0A- W hen the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT=0A- then go ahead and reply to the List.- Be aware that clicking the=0A- "reply" b utton on your mail package does not necessarily send your=0A- response to the original poster.- You might have to actively address=0A- your resp onse with the original poster's email address.=0A=0A- DO NOT use the Lis t t o respond to a post unless you have something=0A- to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal.- "Way to go!", "I=0A- agree", and "Congratulat ions" are all responses that are better sent=0A- to the original poster d irectly, rather than to the List at large.=0A=0A- When responding to oth ers ' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to=0A- comment on every last poi nt in their pos ts, unless you can truly=0A- contribute something valuable .=0A=0A- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone =0A - polite and respectful.- Don't make snide comments, personally attack =0A- other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously=0A- c ontroversial issue.- This will only cause a pointless debate that=0A- w ill hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.=0A=0A- Occasiona l p osts by vendors or individuals who are regularly =0A- subscribed to a giv en List are considered acceptable.- Posts by =0A- List members promotin g their respective products or items for sale =0A- should be of a friendl y, informal nature, and should not resemble =0A- a typical SPAM message. - The List isn't about commercialism, but =0A- is about sharing informa tion and knowledge.- This applies to =0A- everyone, including those who provide products to the entire =0A- community.- Informal presentation and moderation should be the =0A- operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.=0A=0A-------=0A=0A=0A[This is an automated posting.] =0A=0Ado =========================0 A =0A=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________=C2- Message 3=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 03:55:05 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver=C2- =C2- AKFLYERBOB =C2- =C2- =C2- -Equipment protection- =C2- =C2- =C2- SKUFF SAVER Item #TYC 7210 =C2- =C2- =C2- $2.95 per foot 0A=C2- =C2- =C2- Protect the tops of your new skis or snowboard from s cratches and gouges. This clear tough Dupont Surlyn tape is backed with a self-adhesive film for easy application and good bonding. It's 14" wide...enough to span any single snowboard or pair of skis and is sold by the linear foot. Simply order the length you need and trim the width with scissors to fit your needs.=C2- =C2- Quantity: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: "AKFLYERBOB" Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:49 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: ski saver > > > Larry > What material are you talking about? > I'm sure every one would like to know. > Bob > > -------- > Bob Wolfe..Soldotna, Alaska > KF Mod I and III > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228098#228098 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:02 PM ________________________________=C2- Message 4=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 06:02:37 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver I think=C2- the amount of "curl down" can be controlled by the amount=C2 - that you press down between the tubes themselves....simply press more=C2- into the gap before pressing onto the tubes and it should stay there.=C2- I usually just lay it over the gap equally spaced on both si des and=C2- press it down. I didn't get too worried about whether it went up or=C2- down, although down would be preferred. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying On Feb 1, 2009, at 9:08 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Larry, Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on=C2- > hand. That price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many=C2- > times I wanted some of that tape to protect paint on a car,=C2- > motorcycle tank, etc. I'll use it on the gap seal, Alla Lynn=C2- > Matteson top side only. Lynn, if that curls down into the gap,=C2- > rather than up, I don't know why anybody would use any other method. > do not archive > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > > > From: asq@roadrunner.com > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver > > Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500 > > > > > > > Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Larry Huntley" > > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:54 PM > > Subject: Re: ski saver > > > > > > > > > > Yes, > > > check this link on our bags/racks page > > > http://www.tognar.com/ > bags_racks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html > > > The top item is the scuff saver tape, > > > Th anks, > > > Cat > > > www.tognar.com > > > > > > > > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley=C2- > asq@roadrunner.com > > > Ye > > > > > > > > >=C2- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > 6:02 PM==================== > >================ > > > > > > > > ======================== > ======================== > ======================== ========= ________________________________=C2- Message 5=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 07:01:09 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Tes t Report Noel, If you are gap sealing your rudder,John McBean has a very nice contoured hard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizont al stab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber tape. I painted it and it looks n ice .. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Dick Maddux0A=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________=C2- Message 6=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 07:03:47 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "lowflyer" Guys, Please take a look at the following website. http://www.aerographic.com/gap_seal.htm These gap seals are used on Pitts and Eagle aircraft. They have been used on many others as well.=C2- There not too expensive, easy to install and they are removable and should last a long, long time!=C2- You can cut to length for your appl ication and for fitting around hinges. My buddy uses them on his beautiful Pitts S2B.=C2- I will probably be getting some soon. Chris Budd N53RJ Kitfox IV Speedster VW 2180 240hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228155#228155 ________________________________=C2- Message 7=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 07:05:18 AM PST US From: Catz631@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report Lowlead, That looks like an "X" job and a good one at that. I will have to try that when mine peels off. =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - Dick Maddux =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Pensacola,Fl **************Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so much more. (http://aol.com?ncid=emlcntaolcom00000022) ________________________________=C2- Message 8=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 07:34:43 AM PST US From: Rexinator Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report I think had a small sample sheet of this material back in 1984 which I used to protect the front of a "chin" fairing on my Honda Interceptor. It had the characteristics you describe, clear, very tough, designed for protecting front of sporty cars paint from small rock chips. Rex Colorado M2/582 do not archive Lowlead wrote: > > Thanks Rex (and Lynn)! I wish I could say that it's this consistent along the entire length of the gap, but it's not. The gaps tend to be smaller on the o utboard ends due to the way the tightened fabric act on the stab and elevator frames .. > > Installation is hard to describe but not that hard to do. One thing nice a bout this tape is that it's very pliable and the adhesive is not super-aggressive at first. The tape is applied across the gap (we'll say the top side first) with a very slight 'drape' down and then f irmly pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. Then the bottom side tape is applied with a very slight drape up (I used a p c of 1/4" tube to force the drape up) and then pressed onto the LE/TE tubes. T he two tapes stick to one another like a champ but leaves a triangular 'bubble' running the entire length . I used a wooden tongue depressor and fingers to press the top and bottom tapes together to eliminate the bubble. (see attached). It's tough stuff and stretches well enough to get a tight installation. Ther e's no worries about tearing or punching through with the tongue depressor. > > The control surface (elevator or rudder) must be in the neutral position w hen tape is applied or else a tension 'bias' might get built into the installati on (ex: rudder now pulls left or right due to tape..) > Hope this makes sense... > > Dan H. > > > rexinator wrote: >=C2- >> That's exactly what I was trying to describe with my=C2- >-<=C2- symb ol and my >> little drawn image file.=C2- I agree with Lynn that it's a nice job. Ca n >> you elaborate on how you applied so well? >> >> Rex >> Colorado M2/582 >> >> >> >>=C2- =C2- > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228125#228125 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/gapseal2_183.jpg > > >=C2- ________________________________=C2- Message 9=C2- _____________________ ________________ Time: 07:34:43 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: air worthiness From: "dcsfoto" A DAR wi th the correct function code can issue a replacement. All you need is to have him look in the FAA files (cost us $3.00) obtain the info from the original. do a letter requesting a replacement. David Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228163#228163 ________________________________=C2- Message 10=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 09:41:55 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Elevator Gap Seal Test Report From: "darinh" John, As some have said, use the 3M clear product.=C2- I would bet you can find a car accessory shop that applies the "clear bra" to cars and they will sell you this stuff by the foot.=C2- I found several local places that had it in widths of 6", 12", 24", etc.=C2- I bought the 24" wide stuff and cut it to the length an d width I needed for the intended use.=C2- I also applied it to the top side and wrapped it around the front of my landing gear for protection and to the front of th e struts for about the first 4' from the fuse. The product is very tough, UV resistant and crystal clear...the adhesive wor ks perfectly on painted surfaces and can be applied using a shot or two of Wind ex and a small squeegee to remove any air bubbles -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228179#228179 ________________________________=C2- Message 11=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 10:54:57 AM PST US From: "George Wells" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape and where to get it ?? George ________________________________=C2- Message 12=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 03:58:02 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Kitfox owner location map From: "Paul A. Franz, P.E." Here's a great resource http://www.frappr.com/kitfox It's a dynamic push pin map with information about each Kitfox. It covers th e whole world. This has Kitfoxen not just from the mail list but everyone. Put your push pin on the map! If everyone did, you'd be able to find others in your area easily. -------- Paul A. Franz, P.E. Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell 425.440.9505 Office Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228237#228237 ________________________________=C2- Message 13=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 04:45:12 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal=C2 - Test Report Dick=2C Great picture of the tail of your plane. But=2C I'll be damned i f I can see any gap seal. I Like your TR3 also. do not archivePat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL From: Catz631@aol.comDate: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 09:57:11 -0500Subject: Re: Ki t fox-List: Elevator Gap Seal Test ReportElevator Gap Seal Test ReportT o: kit fox-list@matronics.com Noel=2C If you are gap sealing your rudder=2CJohn McBean has a very nice contoured hard foam for that purpose. I bought some of it and glued it to the horizo ntal stab then covered it with 6 inch polyfiber tape. I painted it and it l ooks nice . =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Dick Maddux =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2 - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Pensacola=2CFl Stay up to date on the latest news - from sports scores to stocks and so mu ch more. ________________________________=C2- Message 14=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 05:09:11 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Lynn=2C Didn't you say you have elavator at full down and then apply tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would having some ta pe pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into the groove when eleva tor was raised?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@j p s.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 08 : 58:20 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > --> Kitfox-List message poste d by: Lynn Matteson > > I think the amount of "curl down" can be controlled by the amount > that you press down between the tubes th emselves.. ..simply press more > into the gap before pressing onto the tubes and it should stay there. > I usually just lay it over the gap equally spa ced on both sides and > press it down. I didn't get too worried about wheth er it went up or > down=2C although down would be preferred.> > Lynn Matte s on> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hr s> Se nsenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and fl ying> > > > > On Feb 1=2C 2009=2C at 9:08 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > Larry=2C Thanks for the web link. I ordered 5 feed just to have on > > han d . That price for 14" wide clear tape is unreal. There are many > > times I wanted some of that tape to protect paint on a car=2C > > motorcycle tank =2C etc. I'll use it on the gap seal=2C Alla Lynn > > Matteson top side onl y. Lynn=2C if that curls down into the gap=2C > > rather than up=2C I don't know why anybody would use any other method.> > do not archive> >> > Pat R eilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockford=2C IL> >> >> >> >> > > From: asq@ro a drunner.com> > > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com> > > Subject: Kitfox-List: F w: ski saver> > > Date: Sun=2C 1 Feb 2009 20:38:03 -0500> > >> > > --> Kit f ox-List message posted by: "Larry Huntley" > > > > >> > > Just received this. Does it sound like the same material? Larry> > >> > > ----- Original Message -----> > > From: > > > To: "Larry Huntley" < asq@roadrunner.com>> > > Sent: Sunday=2C February 01=2C 2009 7:5 4 PM> > > Subject: Re: ski saver> > >> > >> > > >> > > > Yes=2C> > > > che c k this link on our bags/racks page> > > > http://www.tognar.com/ > > bags_r acks_boot_ski_binding_snowboard_accessory.html> > > > The top item is the s cuff saver tape=2C> > > > Thanks=2C> > > > Cat> > > > www.tognar.com>; > > > > > > >> > > >> Do you still have "ski saver" tape? Larry Huntley > > asq@r oadrunner.com> > > > Ye> > > >> > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------- --------------------------------------------- > > ----------> > >> > >> > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com> > > 6:02 PM====== ===============> > >======= ==========> > >> > >> > >> >> > ====== === _- > > ================== ================ _- > > contribution_- > > ========================> _ ==> > > ________________________________=C2- Message 15=C2- ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:16 PM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox=C2- broken motor mount the mount broke Ware it attaches to the vibration dampener on the rear pass enger side on my mod 2 w/582- 170 hrs airframe has this happened to anybo dy? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder - - malcolm --- On Mon, 2/2/09, George Wells wrote: From: George Wells Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape-and where to get it ?? George =0A=0A=0A=C2- =C2- =C2- ________________________________=C2- Message 16=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 05:44:07 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Posting videos From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" Maintaining video quality when posting is somewhat of a problem with YouTube . I discovered this site which has few if any ads and the video quality is excel lent. The format is very nice with thumbnail images and a nice indexing scheme. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________=C2- Message 17=C2- ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:27 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox=C2- broken motor mount Just a thought... I think after welding the joint has to be normalized to prevent it from cracking in the joint again. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Brubaker Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 9:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Kitfox broken motor mount the mount broke Ware it attaches to the vibration dampener on the rear passenger side on my mod 2 w/582=C2- 170 hrs airframe has this happened to anybody? i plan on having it gas welded by a local pilot/ welder=C2- =C2 - malcolm --- On Mon, 2/2/09, George Wells wrote: From: George Wells Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: ski saver Didn't you guys see my post from 1 or 2 days ago where I talked about my use of Ski Saver Tape and where to get it ?? George D======================= ======== D======================= ======== D======================= ======== D======================= ======== ________________________________=C2- Message 18=C2- ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:33 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Flaperon hinge brackets From: "clemwehner" My flaperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs befor e the wing was covered. Now that the wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit flat onto the wing without putting considerable stress on the rivets at the rear of the bracket.=C2- This is because the wing trailing edge is now thicker because of the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo. Any suggestions on what to do.=C2- I can push hard and press the bracket d own on to the wing surface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket.=C2- Any ideas? thanks for the help, -------- Clem Wehner Tulsa, OK Kitfox IV-912 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228263#228263 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4120_191.jpg ________________________________=C2- Message 19=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 07:02:23 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver I put my tape on at=C2- full down, yes, and like you observed, just=C2- having a little "down into" radius will assure that it stays there=C2- when the 'vator is raised. I may try to apply some from the bottom=C2- side with the 'vator held up, and see how that works...along with the=C2- top being covered. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 2, 2009, at 8:06 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, Didn't you say you have elavator at full down and then apply=C2- > tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would=C2- > having some tape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into=C2- > the groove when elevator was raised? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > ________________________________=C2- Message 20=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 07:20:15 PM PST US From: patrick reilly Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Lynn=2C I was also wondering how covering both sides with your method20of fu ll elevator up and down would work. I'm not to that stage yet. As a matter of fact I received today the RAC servo from ACS to use with Lowell Fitts tr im tab kit. So=2C I will be tearing my elevator apart.=C2- Have you got a trim tab on the elevator? Or=2C do you use the Flaperons to trim?Pat ReillyMod 3 582 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-L i st: Fw: ski saver> Date: Mon=2C 2 Feb 2009 22:01:43 -0500> To: kitfox-list @ @jps.net>> > I put my tape on at full down=2C yes=2C and like you observ ed =2C just > having a little "down into" radius will assure that it stays th e re > when the 'vator is raised. I may try to apply some from the bottom > s ide with the 'vator held up=2C and see how that works...along with the > to p being covered.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jab i ru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ign iti on system> New skis done and flying> do not archive> > > > On Feb 2=2C 200 9 =2C at 8:06 PM=2C patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn=2C Didn't you say yo u hav e elavator at full down and then apply > > tape. This wouldn't require any pushing tape into groove. Or would > > having some tape pushed into groove insure the tape would curl into > > the groove when elevator was raised?> > ==========> > > ________________________________=C2- Message 21=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 07:33:19 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Fw: ski saver Factory-built trim tab with RAC servo. Using the flaperons for trim=C2- slows the plane down, which is why one of the Speedster mods was the=C2- electric trim. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system New skis done and flying do not archive On Feb 2, 2009, at 10:19 PM, patrick reilly wrote: > Lynn, I was also wondering how covering both sides with your method=C2- > of full elevator up and down would work. I'm not to that stage yet.=C2- > As a matter of fact I received today the RAC servo from ACS to use=C2- > with Lowell Fitts trim tab kit. So, I will be tearing my elevator=C2- > apart.=C2- Have you got a trim tab on the elevator? Or, do you use the =C2- > Flaperons to trim? > > Pat Reilly > Mod 3 582 Rebuild > Rockford, IL > > ________________________________=C2- Message 22=C2- ____________________ ________________ Time: 07:46:51 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Flaperon hinge brackets From: "Tom Jones" > My flaperon hinge brackets were made and the holes drilled in the ribs bef ore the wing was covered. Now that the wing is covered the hinge brackets won't fit flat onto the wing without putting considerable stress on the rivets at the rear of the bracket. This is because the wing trailing edge is now thicker b ecause of the fabric, tapes, and paint. See the attached photo. > > Any suggestions on what to do. I can push hard and press the bracket down on to the wing surface, but it puts a lot of bending stress on the bracket. Any ideas? Clem, The builder's manual says to fit and drill first then cover as you have done. Mine were a tight fit too. I set the flaperon in place then installed and tightened the hinge bolts to take the stress off the rear rivet before I squeezed the brackets tight to the ri b with one hand and riveted with the other hand. The rear bracket rivets have held fine.=C2- I have had the flaperons off a couple times and the bracket bolt holes in the brackets line up perfect when I rein stall the flaperons.=C2- Also the bracket to rib rivets are holding tight. I rib laced and put no rib lacing reinforcement tape or rib finish tape unde r the brackets. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D igator?Kitfox-List D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.