Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:48 AM - Re: Brake rotors (patrick reilly)
2. 03:48 AM - Re: Brake rotors (Lynn Matteson)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? ! (Michael Logan)
4. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? ! (Jim Corner)
5. 11:18 AM - Re: Brake rotors (patrick reilly)
6. 01:20 PM - Re: Brake rotors (Lynn Matteson)
7. 02:25 PM - Re: Brake rotors (patrick reilly)
8. 03:39 PM - 2009 Northwest Aviation Conference & Trade Show (Paul A. Franz, P.E.)
9. 03:54 PM - Re: Brake rotors (Lynn Matteson)
10. 08:24 PM - Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox? (rcsfca)
Message 1
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Chuck=2C The lightening holes in the rotors is an owner install option. It
is described in my model 3 assembly book. The original owner / builder did
not drill the rotors. I drilled them in my rebuild. Could be wrong but=2C I
don't believe you will find any of the OEM rotors already drilled. Automot
ive race applications all use cross drilled rotors with much greater forces
applied to the rotors. Should be fine on a KF. Pat ReillyMod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Brake rot
ors> Date: Fri=2C 13 Feb 2009 09:03:46 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
My Model IV manual shows the lightening holes in the brake rotors to > be a
n owner-modified option. I did the drilling and cutting on mine=2C > and ha
ve had no problems whatsoever in over 600 hours.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox I
V Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x4
6> Electroair direct-fire ignition system> New skis done and flying> > > >
> On Feb 13=2C 2009=2C at 12:09 AM=2C charles cook wrote:> > > I noticed th
at my model II Matco brakes has a rotor that has > > lighting holes drilled
all over. The newer brake assembly that came > > off a model IV that I am
installing does not. Has anybody heard if > > there has been a problem with
===========> > >
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Brake rotors |
I offer the following as a substitute for a NASA Form 277 (get out of
jail free)...Snake will know what I mean....and maybe Guy will too. : )
Charles-
Here is what the lightened rotors look like....as you can see, just
cutting off the material that just goes along for the ride quite a
bit of relative weight is saved. I weighed mine at the time of the
operation, and the original disc weighed 1#, 10 oz. and after
drilling and cutting weighed 13 oz., so the weight is cut in half.
For further lightening, you can drill the axles, also shown on the
original drawing in the builder's manual. I did this as well, and
saved a further 6 oz., but I didn't record at the time if this was
one axle or both...either way is wasn't much.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
>
> >
> > On Feb 13, 2009, at 12:09 AM, charles cook wrote:
> >
> > > I noticed that my model II Matco brakes has a rotor that has
> > > lighting holes drilled all over. The newer brake assembly that
> came
> > > off a model IV that I am installing does not. Has anybody heard if
> > > there has been a problem with the older rotors?
> > >
> > > Charles Cook
> > > N363KF 582
> > > ATL
> > >
> > >
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? ! |
No need to pay a lot for the Barfield tester, Jim Weir showed how to make
one cheaply in Kitplanes a couple of months back.
Mike
Series 5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? !
Missed again!
The ASI can be tested and calibrated using a Barfield tester it won't be
cheap! Unless you know someone who has one sitting on their bench. Even
with a properly calibrated ASI you can still have problems due to the
positioning of the pitot and the static ports. This is nothing to be
passive about as in the past number of years at least one jetliner has
crashed because static ports were covered for painting and afterward the
tape covering the port was not removed. Of course for guys who only foy
instruments this is a real nightmare. For the rest of us...it becomes an
inconvenience.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? !
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
My concern with the ASI is that it is not accurate at the high end and that
is limiting me a bit. On climb out it seems pretty accurate, bear with me
as this is all based on "feel"; Doing slow flight, perhaps even on the back
side of the power curve, rpm about 5000, jury struts indicating about 8-10
AOA, 40 mph indicated with 2 on board, she stalled the INSTANT I throttled
back. It all adds up to very accurate slow flight. Full throttle, nice
climb established, stick pulled back a little bit and feeling a little, just
a little mushy. ASI indicates 55ish so this all seems to fit. Get up to
pattern altitude and bring the throttle back to about 5500-5700, level off
and the ASI quickly starts reporting 80-90mph. It is not hard to say that
it is probably a little optimistic. Now here is my concern with it, I can
easily remain within the aircraft's speed limits while cruising around if
the ASI is reading high at the high end but when I hit a little lift and I
am almost imme!
diately pushing Vne I get a little concerned. So the plan is to go out
first thing in the morning, once my GPS makes it home, and try to calibrate
the ASI. I realize that DA has to be taken into account as well as winds.
I will probably fly a course and a back course and compare the difference of
the errors to determine the true inaccuracy. Here is the question, is there
a way to calibrate the ASI besides simply bending the pitot so it is not as
directly into the wind? What is the RIGHT way to do this?
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230182#230182
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? ! |
Mikes note reminded me of a web bookmark on ASI Calibration.
Try http://www.iflyez.com/manometer.shtml
Jim Corner
Model 2, 582,. Ivo med !FA, 1100 hrs
Model 5, 0-235 40 hrs
Calgary, AB
On 14-Feb-09, at 6:55 AM, Michael Logan wrote:
<michael.logan@cox.net>
No need to pay a lot for the Barfield tester, Jim Weir showed how to
make
one cheaply in Kitplanes a couple of months back.
Mike
Series 5
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 11:04 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? !
Missed again!
The ASI can be tested and calibrated using a Barfield tester it won't be
cheap! Unless you know someone who has one sitting on their bench.
Even
with a properly calibrated ASI you can still have problems due to the
positioning of the pitot and the static ports. This is nothing to be
passive about as in the past number of years at least one jetliner has
crashed because static ports were covered for painting and afterward the
tape covering the port was not removed. Of course for guys who only foy
instruments this is a real nightmare. For the rest of us...it
becomes an
inconvenience.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of WurlyBird
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 12:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Problem with FLUTTER ? ! ? !
<james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
My concern with the ASI is that it is not accurate at the high end
and that
is limiting me a bit. On climb out it seems pretty accurate, bear
with me
as this is all based on "feel"; Doing slow flight, perhaps even on
the back
side of the power curve, rpm about 5000, jury struts indicating about
8-10
AOA, 40 mph indicated with 2 on board, she stalled the INSTANT I
throttled
back. It all adds up to very accurate slow flight. Full throttle, nice
climb established, stick pulled back a little bit and feeling a
little, just
a little mushy. ASI indicates 55ish so this all seems to fit. Get
up to
pattern altitude and bring the throttle back to about 5500-5700,
level off
and the ASI quickly starts reporting 80-90mph. It is not hard to say
that
it is probably a little optimistic. Now here is my concern with it,
I can
easily remain within the aircraft's speed limits while cruising
around if
the ASI is reading high at the high end but when I hit a little lift
and I
am almost imme!
diately pushing Vne I get a little concerned. So the plan is to go
out
first thing in the morning, once my GPS makes it home, and try to
calibrate
the ASI. I realize that DA has to be taken into account as well as
winds.
I will probably fly a course and a back course and compare the
difference of
the errors to determine the true inaccuracy. Here is the question,
is there
a way to calibrate the ASI besides simply bending the pitot so it is
not as
directly into the wind? What is the RIGHT way to do this?
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230182#230182
Message 5
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Lynn=2C I drilled mine. But=2C was wondering how you cut off the outside ed
ge between the mounting tabs. Can't use a lathe=2C which I don't have anywa
y=2C because you'd cut off the tab also. I imagine I removed a little less
than 1/2 the weight you did by removing the outside edge.Pat ReillyMod 3 58
2 RebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List:
Brake rotors> Date: Sat=2C 14 Feb 2009 06:43:58 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matr
onics.com> > I offer the following as a substitute for a NASA Form 277 (get
out of > jail free)...Snake will know what I mean....and maybe Guy will to
o. : )> > Charles-> Here is what the lightened rotors look like....as you c
an see=2C just > cutting off the material that just goes along for the ride
quite a > bit of relative weight is saved. I weighed mine at the time of t
he > operation=2C and the original disc weighed 1#=2C 10 oz. and after > dr
illing and cutting weighed 13 oz.=2C so the weight is cut in half.> For fur
ther lightening=2C you can drill the axles=2C also shown on the > original
drawing in the builder's manual. I did this as well=2C and > saved a furthe
r 6 oz.=2C but I didn't record at the time if this was > one axle or both..
.either way is wasn't much.> > >
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Brake rotors |
As you can see by the picture, I drilled a large...can't recall the
size, maybe 7/16"... hole so that the edge was tangent to what would
become the new outer diameter of the rotor proper, then bandsawed the
rest of the material away. Previously, I had "painted" the whole
rotor with Dykem blue layout dye, and marked out each hole and cut-
line with a scribe. Then it was just a simple matter of doing the
drilling and the sawing....pretty standard metal-removing tactics for
a home shop...with a bandsaw, of course. Any local machine shop could
do it if you don't have the saw.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 14, 2009, at 2:17 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, I drilled mine. But, was wondering how you cut off the
> outside edge between the mounting tabs. Can't use a lathe, which I
> don't have anyway, because you'd cut off the tab also. I imagine I
> removed a little less than 1/2 the weight you did by removing the
> outside edge.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
Message 7
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Lynn=2C OK=2C thanks for the info. I have a craftsman 12" bandsaw I use on
wood and occasionally aluminum. I don't think it is powerful enough to cut
steel 1/4" thick. What bandsaw and blade did you use? I drilled mine after
laying out per builders manual similar to you. If I take my wheels off and
have the time I will either buy a bigger bandsaw or lay it out=2C drill the
holes and have a machine shop saw off the outer rim. Pat ReillyMod 3 582 R
ebuildRockford=2C IL> From: lynnmatt@jps.net> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Bra
ke rotors> Date: Sat=2C 14 Feb 2009 16:19:45 -0500> To: kitfox-list@matroni
t>> > As you can see by the picture=2C I drilled a large...can't recall the
> size=2C maybe 7/16"... hole so that the edge was tangent to what would >
become the new outer diameter of the rotor proper=2C then bandsawed the >
rest of the material away. Previously=2C I had "painted" the whole > rotor
with Dykem blue layout dye=2C and marked out each hole and cut- > line with
a scribe. Then it was just a simple matter of doing the > drilling and the
sawing....pretty standard metal-removing tactics for > a home shop...with
a bandsaw=2C of course. Any local machine shop could > do it if you don't h
ave the saw.> > Lynn Matteson> Kitfox IV Speedster=2C taildragger> Jabiru 2
200=2C #2062=2C 605 hrs> Sensenich 62x46> Electroair direct-fire ignition s
ystem> New skis done and flying> > > > > On Feb 14=2C 2009=2C at 2:17 PM=2C
patrick reilly wrote:> > > Lynn=2C I drilled mine. But=2C was wondering ho
w you cut off the > > outside edge between the mounting tabs. Can't use a l
athe=2C which I > > don't have anyway=2C because you'd cut off the tab also
. I imagine I > > removed a little less than 1/2 the weight you did by remo
ving the > > outside edge.> >> > Pat Reilly> > Mod 3 582 Rebuild> > Rockfor
====================> > >
Message 8
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| Subject: | 2009 Northwest Aviation Conference & Trade Show |
Is this a good one to go to for shopping instruments and radios? It sure looks
like there is a lot of fun stuff there. Looks like it costs $5 which is pretty
reasonable. I see you can fly in to Thun Field and they have a shuttle service
that is free too.
2009 Northwest Aviation Conference & Trade Show (http://www.washington-aviation.org/)
I don't have a single thing yet, no primary instruments or radios, nothing yet.
Initially I want to plan the panel, wiring and antennas then buy stuff first
just the minimum to fly off the hours then add the rest during that period.
(http://www.washington-aviation.org/)
--------
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230272#230272
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Brake rotors |
Pat-
Don't even try to use a wood bandsaw for steel unless you can reduce
the speed from the wood speed of approximately 2500 blade-feet-per-
minute, to about 675 bfpm for the steel. Then you need to use at
least a "general use" saw blade with (at the least) about 18 teeth-
per-inch (TPI). I have an old Delta bandsaw that has a speed reducing
gearbox, and that's about the only good way to get the blade speed
reduced. You can try to make a jackshaft for your machine, but it
takes some pretty big...and small...pulleys to get the speed down to
where it is safe to cut steel. And the blade needs to say on the
package that it's for steel...it will have the aforementioned fine
teeth, and a blue color. There should always be at least two teeth in
contact with the metal at any time during the cutting.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Feb 14, 2009, at 5:24 PM, patrick reilly wrote:
> Lynn, OK, thanks for the info. I have a craftsman 12" bandsaw I use
> on wood and occasionally aluminum. I don't think it is powerful
> enough to cut steel 1/4" thick. What bandsaw and blade did you use?
> I drilled mine after laying out per builders manual similar to you.
> If I take my wheels off and have the time I will either buy a
> bigger bandsaw or lay it out, drill the holes and have a machine
> shop saw off the outer rim.
>
> Pat Reilly
> Mod 3 582 Rebuild
> Rockford, IL
>
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Will any company insure a student/Kitfox? |
I found myself in exactly your predicament last spring. I owned the plane, had
no time in type, and couldn't get insurance.
My solution was very close to what Guy Buchanan suggested, but with a twist. I
went to my instructor's insurance agency and arranged for a complete policy (liability
and hull damage) but named my instructor as the only pilot. I was not
in the loop except as a student under the direction of my PIC instructor. I also
(later) added two fellow Kitfox owners (who are experienced pilots) as named
pilots on my policy.
BTW, the insurance carrier is AIG and they had no problems at all with the way
the policy was set up. Also of note is that my instructor wanted me to have my
own policy on my plane (with him named) and not expect to use his policy to cover
my plane or our flying in it.
Best of luck,
Rich Cunningham
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230295#230295
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