---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/25/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:04 AM - Rumored TSA Directive (Guy Buchanan) 2. 09:54 AM - Re: Rumored TSA Directive (Danny) 3. 10:26 AM - Re: new bush gear (rawheels) 4. 10:40 AM - Re: new bush gear (Av8r3400) 5. 10:50 AM - Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (darinh) 6. 11:21 AM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Lynn Matteson) 7. 11:58 AM - Re: Rumored TSA Directive (Av8r3400) 8. 12:51 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (fox5flyer) 9. 01:23 PM - CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" (Tom Jones) 10. 02:11 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Kitfox George) 11. 02:29 PM - Re: Rumored TSA Directive (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 12. 02:35 PM - Re: Rumored TSA Directive (Paul Franz - Merlin GT) 13. 02:45 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (darinh) 14. 03:18 PM - Re: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" (kerrjohna@comcast.net) 15. 04:25 PM - Re: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" (Noel Loveys) 16. 05:45 PM - Re: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" (Tom Jones) 17. 07:22 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Guy Buchanan) 18. 08:05 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Lynn Matteson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:57 AM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: Rumored TSA Directive All, At great risk I am cross-posting this information from the Lancair list. This is not an open invitation to bash the government or debate the merits of the TSA or this particular measure. Rather I post it to widen the audience for the purposes of seeking additional information as to the truth and scope of the directive. I wanted to let you all know of a very disturbing TSA Security Directive (SD) that is being implemented under the radar that affects ALL U.S. airports with commercial Part 121 scheduled airline service. This is reality folks, and several of us here in good ol=92 western Colorado attended a meeting with TSA personnel tonight in Montrose MTJ and confirmed this shocking news firsthand. This SD would require that every person who steps foot in the airport operations area be screened for security clearance and badged before being allowed to have access on the ramp. If you are not badged, then you must wait to be escorted by a badged representative and escorted off the AOA. This means that if you are flying into GJT, you would have to wait in your cockpit until someone escorted you directly to the FBO. That means no more self-serve fueling opportunities unless someone is there to meet you, no more mingling on the ramp and talking to your buddies=85...no more freedom. However, here is the kicker ' Let=92s say you go through this security clearance at your local airport (a $175 fee at GJT) and want to fly anywhere else and land at an airport with scheduled commercial airline service i.e. Montrose, Vail, Telluride, Loveland, Long Beach, Ontario, Santa Ana etc. you will have to be badged at EACH airport! The way the SD is written now (and is effective April 30, 2009) there is no provision for a standardized security clearance. Each airport operates independently of every other airport!!!!!! This is complete madness. This will drive the nail in the coffin of GA, and combined with the TSA Large Aircraft Security Proposal (LASP) would virtually destroy the freedoms that all of us have known our entire aviation careers! AOPA was not aware of this until last week, NBAA, NATA, EAA are caught off guard. You need to understand what this will do to our industry. The TSA personnel are not even allowing us to view this 14 page directive because it is deemed sensitive to =93national security=94. Our freedoms are being stripped away right before our eyes. As soon as we can get our hands on this document we will make it public to everyone in the aviation community. Please take the time to question your local TSA representatives about this proposal and get involved. If this thing is implemented, just think how long it will take to be a requirement of EVERY airport in the U.S. If there was ever a time for action, this is it. AOPA Response Mr. Miller, Thank you for contacting the AOPA Pilot Information Center. Yes, AOPA is aware of this mandate. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, the TSA is proceeding with this program. While the full details of the program are classified, it will essentially require all persons with access to the secure portion of the airport have a TSA approved airport access badge. If you have any specific questions about this program, please feel free to contact us. If I can be of further assistance, feel free to contact me. Tom Kramer Aviation Technical Specialist AOPA Pilot Information Center Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rumored TSA Directive From: Danny We have been required to have a badge for ramp access at MLB for the 10 year s I have had a hangar there. Anyone flying in is required to go directly to the FBO. What's diffferent in the new rules? Danny Melnik F1 N14ZM Rocket Factory Melbourne, FL -----Original Message----- From: Guy Buchanan Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:58 am Subject: Kitfox-List: Rumored TSA Directive All, =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-At great risk I am cross-pos ting this information from the Lancair list. This is not an open invitation to bash the government or debate the merits of the TSA or this particular me asure. Rather I post it to widen the audience for the purposes of seeking ad ditional information as to the truth and scope of the directive. I wanted to let you all know of a very disturbing TSA Security Directive (SD) that is being implemented under the radar that affects ALL U.S. airports with commercial Part 121 scheduled airline service. This is reality folks, and several of us here in good ol=99 western Co lorado attended a meeting with TSA personnel tonight in Montrose MTJ and con firmed this shocking news firsthand. This SD would require that every person who steps foot in the airport operat ions area be screened for security clearance and badged before being allowed to have access on the ramp. If you are not badged, then you must wait to be escorted by a badged representative and escorted off the AOA. This means that if you are flying into GJT, you would have to wait in your cockpit until someone escorted you direc tly to the FBO. That means no more self-serve fueling opportunities unless s omeone is there to meet you, no more mingling on the ramp and talking to you r buddies...no more freedom. However, here is the kicker =93 Let=99s say you go through this security clearance at your local airport (a $175 fee at GJT) and want to fly anywhere else and land at an airport with scheduled commercial airline serv ice i.e. Montrose, Vail, Telluride, Loveland, Long Beach, Ontario, Santa Ana etc. you will have to be badged at EACH airport! The way the SD is written now (and is effective April 30, 2009) there is no provision for a standardized security clearance. Each airport operates indep endently of every other airport!!!!!! This is complete madness. This will dr ive the nail in the coffin of GA, and combined with the TSA Large Aircraft S ecurity Proposal (LASP) would virtually destroy the freedoms that all of us have known our entire aviation careers! AOPA was not aware of this until last week, NBAA, NATA, EAA are caught off g uard. You need to understand what this will do to our industry. The TSA personnel are not even allowing us to view this 14 page directive be cause it is deemed sensitive to =9Cnational security=9D. Our fre edoms are being stripped away right before our eyes. As soon as we can get our hands on this document we will make it public to e veryone in the aviation community. Please take the time20to question your lo cal TSA representatives about this proposal and get involved. If this thing is implemented, just think how long it will take to be a requi rement of EVERY airport in the U.S. If there was ever a time for action, this is it. =C2- AOPA Response Mr. Miller, Thank you for contacting the AOPA Pilot Information Center.=C2- Yes, AOPA is aware of this mandate.=C2- Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, the TSA is proceeding with this program.=C2- While the full details of the pr ogram are classified, it will essentially require all persons with access to the secure portion of the airport have a TSA approved airport access badge. =C2- If you have any specific questions about this program, please feel fr ee to contact us. If I can be of further assistance, feel free to contact me. Tom Kramer Aviation Technical Specialist AOPA Pilot Information Center Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting -= - The Kitfox-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List - -======================3 D======================== ============= -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:35 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: new bush gear From: "rawheels" Lowell is still on vacation, but I finally got a hold of Mark @ Highwing LLC. He thinks that the price for the basic type will be $1275. If you want fairings like Dick has they will be extra. I had kind of a bad connection with their cell phone, but from what I understand the gear are sent all ready to bolt on and you re-use your original axles and wheel assemblies. So, it is just like the Kitfox version just $175 cheaper. $315 cheaper than grove (plus the weight savings). -------- Ryan Wheeler Kitfox IV-1200 Indianapolis, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232063#232063 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:29 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: new bush gear From: "Av8r3400" Do you think the farings increased the strength at all? Just by eyeball this design doesn't look as strong for off runway use. (Just the appearance is all.) Have you seen the design used by this Highlander builder? (I think it is a custom design) Note the use of THREE down tubes. -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Currently between planes, but not for long... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232066#232066 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/taildrgfun_2_330.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:50:48 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? From: "darinh" Ok guys here is the skinny...about 2 months ago my engine started to run a bit rough in the higher power ranges (80% and above) but idle through 75% was good as always. Now my engine only had 25 to 30 hours on it when this started. I have been tinkering with different things trying to figure it out but was not able to find anything out of the ordinary. I have suspected my fuel system since this began and started with my finger strainers which were clean. Next my fuel goes through a 40 micron Earl's filter and it was clean so I didn't bother checking the final filter right before the engine. I then moved to the carbs and they were fine. So in a last ditch effort, I decided to completely redo my fuel system hoses and this is where I found the problem. Here is how the fuel is routed so you can follow. Fuel from the tank goes through the finger strainers, through about 15" of -6 Aeroquip AQP hose and then through 3/8" 5052 aluminum tubing to the header tank. From the header tank through more 3/8" aluminum to the 40 micron filter then to the fuel shut off valve. From here it transitions to 1/2" Mil 6000 hose for about 6" to the pumps then 5/16" Mil 6000 hose to the final filter (shown in pic) then to the fuel pressure regulator then to the carbs. As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and plugged up. I can barely blow air through it. As stated earlier, my other filters (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean. So here is my diagnosis: Mil 6000 hose is deteriorating and plugging the final filter which is not allowing enough fuel for the high throttle settings. My engine is a 914 so cruise power is about 5.5 gph but full power is almost 9 gph. Solution: Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing. I also see that Aircraft Spruce says specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel. Just as a note, I have checked my fuel source a couple times and have not found it to contain any ethanol -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#232068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2750_large_160.jpg ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:58 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? I was reading your report and came to the entry "MIL 6000", and figured that was it. Somewhere in the past I had read about this stuff on this list, and made a mental note to not use that which came with my kit. I went with the SAE 30R7, and it has worked without fail. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:50 PM, darinh wrote: > > Ok guys here is the skinny...about 2 months ago my engine started > to run a bit rough in the higher power ranges (80% and above) but > idle through 75% was good as always. Now my engine only had 25 to > 30 hours on it when this started. I have been tinkering with > different things trying to figure it out but was not able to find > anything out of the ordinary. I have suspected my fuel system > since this began and started with my finger strainers which were > clean. Next my fuel goes through a 40 micron Earl's filter and it > was clean so I didn't bother checking the final filter right before > the engine. I then moved to the carbs and they were fine. So in a > last ditch effort, I decided to completely redo my fuel system > hoses and this is where I found the problem. > > Here is how the fuel is routed so you can follow. Fuel from the > tank goes through the finger strainers, through about 15" of -6 > Aeroquip AQP hose and then through 3/8" 5052 aluminum tubing to the > header tank. From the header tank through more 3/8" aluminum to > the 40 micron filter then to the fuel shut off valve. From here it > transitions to 1/2" Mil 6000 hose for about 6" to the pumps then > 5/16" Mil 6000 hose to the final filter (shown in pic) then to the > fuel pressure regulator then to the carbs. > > As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and plugged > up. I can barely blow air through it. As stated earlier, my other > filters (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean. So here is my > diagnosis: Mil 6000 hose is deteriorating and plugging the final > filter which is not allowing enough fuel for the high throttle > settings. My engine is a 914 so cruise power is about 5.5 gph but > full power is almost 9 gph. > > Solution: Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable > Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing. I also see that Aircraft Spruce > says specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel. Just as a > note, I have checked my fuel source a couple times and have not > found it to contain any ethanol > > -------- > Darin Hawkes > Series 7 > 914 Turbo > Kaysville, Utah > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#232068 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2750_large_160.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rumored TSA Directive From: "Av8r3400" Deadline has been pushed back to June 1 to allow for more study. http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2009/090224badges.html?WT.mc_id=ebrief -------- Thanks, Av8r3400 Currently between planes, but not for long... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232081#232081 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:24 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? Correct. Lose all of the Milspec and go to the Aeroquip or good equivalent. It may not be the ethanol, but other chemicals in auto fuel that is causing a deterioration of the Milspec. This stuff has been happening long before ethanol was being used. > > As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and plugged up. I > can barely blow air through it. As stated earlier, my other filters > (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean. So here is my diagnosis: Mil 6000 > hose is deteriorating and plugging the final filter which is not allowing > enough fuel for the high throttle settings. My engine is a 914 so cruise > power is about 5.5 gph but full power is almost 9 gph. > > Solution: Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable Aeroquip > hose or aluminum tubing. I also see that Aircraft Spruce says > specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel. Just as a note, I have > checked my fuel source a couple times and have not found it to contain any > ethanol > > -------- > Darin Hawkes > Series 7 > 914 Turbo > Kaysville, Utah > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#232068 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf2750_large_160.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:19 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" From: "Tom Jones" The instructions for my Westach CHT and EGT gages say they are a differential temperature system and are calibrated for a "Cold Junction" of 75 degrees F. This means, for each degree the cold junction is less than 75 degrees the gage will read one degree high and for each degree above 75 degrees at the cold junction the gage will read one degree low. Can someone tell me what the cold Junction is, and where it is so I will have a clue as to what the temperature there might be on any given day? Is it somewhere in the cable or at the gage? -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232096#232096 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:54 PM PST US From: Kitfox George Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? Goodyear now makes the SAE 30R9 that has a blue inner lining made for use w ith Ethanol and alternative fuels. It is very flexible without kinking and has a small outer diameter. Many auto parts, such as Autozone,-stores sel l it by the foot. SAE 30R9 is rated for fuel injection lines. =0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson < lynnmatt@jps.net>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Februa ry 25, 2009 11:21:05 AM=0ASubject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - tt@jps.net>=0A=0AI was reading your report and came to the entry "MIL 6000" , and figured that was it. Somewhere in the past I had read about this stuf f on this list, and made a mental note to not use that which came with my k it. I went with the SAE 30R7, and it has worked without fail.=0A=0ALynn Mat teson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, taildragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASe nsenich 62x46=0AElectroair direct-fire ignition system=0AStatus: flying=0A =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Feb 25, 2009, at 1:50 PM, darinh wrote:=0A=0A> --> Kitfox-Li st message posted by: "darinh" =0A> =0A> Ok guys here is the skinny...about 2 months ago my engine started to run a bit rough in the higher power ranges (80% and above) but idle through 75% was good as a lways.- Now my engine only had 25 to 30 hours on it when this started.- I have been tinkering with different things trying to figure it out but wa s not able to find anything out of the ordinary.- I have suspected my fue l system since this began and started with my finger strainers which were c lean.- Next my fuel goes through a 40 micron Earl's filter and it was cle an so I didn't bother checking the final filter right before the engine.- I then moved to the carbs and they were fine.- So in a last ditch effort , I decided to completely redo my fuel system hoses and this is where I fou nd the problem.=0A> =0A> Here is how the fuel is routed so you can follow. - Fuel from the tank goes through the finger strainers, through about 15" of -6 Aeroquip AQP hose and then through 3/8" 5052 aluminum tubing to the header tank.- From the header tank through more 3/8" aluminum to the 40 m icron filter then to the fuel shut off valve.- From here it transitions t o 1/2" Mil 6000 hose for about 6" to the pumps then 5/16" Mil 6000 hose to the final filter (shown in pic) then to the fuel pressure regulator then to the carbs.=0A> =0A> As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and plugged up.- I can barely blow air through it.- As stated earlier, my other filters (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean.- So here is my d iagnosis:- Mil 6000 hose is deteriorating and plugging the final filter w hich is not allowing enough fuel for the high throttle settings.- My engi ne is a 914 so cruise power is about 5.5 gph but full power is almost 9 gph .=0A> =0A> Solution:- Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suita ble Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing.- I also see that Aircraft Spruce sa ys specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel.- Just as a note, I hav e checked my fuel source a couple times and have not found it to contain an y ethanol=0A> =0A> --------=0A> Darin Hawkes=0A> Series 7=0A> 914 Turbo=0A> Kaysville, Utah=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic online here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#232068=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Attachments:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc -=- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Drall ======== ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:29:30 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rumored TSA Directive From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Wed, February 25, 2009 8:58 am, Guy Buchanan wrote: > > This SD would require that every person who steps > foot in the airport operations area be screened > for security clearance and badged before being > allowed to have access on the ramp. If you are > not badged, then you must wait to be escorted by > a badged representative and escorted off the AOA. Sure cuts down on the number of $100 burger possibilities. :( BTW, according to AOPA, this is not a rumor: AOPA Response Mr. Miller, Thank you for contacting the AOPA Pilot Information Center. Yes, AOPA is aware of this mandate. Unfortunately, despite our best efforts, the TSA is proceeding with this program. While the full details of the program are classified, it will essentially require all persons with access to the secure portion of the airport have a TSA approved airport access badge. If you have any specific questions about this program, please feel free to contact us. If I can be of further assistance, feel free to contact me. Tom Kramer Aviation Technical Specialist -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rumored TSA Directive From: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" On Wed, February 25, 2009 9:52 am, Danny wrote: > We have been required to have a badge for ramp access at MLB for the 10 years I have > had a hangar there. Anyone flying in is required to go directly to the FBO. What's > diffferent in the new rules? 1) No badge, you have to be escorted to the FBO. Remain in your aircraft until escort meets you. 2) No central administration of security clearances. Each airport has it's own fee. No limits on the size of the fee. Could be $500 for each airport. 3) The practice of having an FBO issue passes at some airports will no longer be permitted. You'll have to get the expensive security clearance. -- Paul A. Franz Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP Bellevue WA 425.241.1618 Cell ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:45:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? From: "darinh" Guy, This is my thinking as well I know I have not run ethanol but the detergents and additives may be the issue. Clint has used the Mil6000 for 1400 hours without issue but I think he runs 100LL...I could be wrong though. I bought some Gates Multi-fuel fuel injection hose today that I am going to use for the 5/16" lines...the other stuff is Aeroquip. Thanks for the replies. -------- Darin Hawkes Series 7 914 Turbo Kaysville, Utah Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232113#232113 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:20 PM PST US From: kerrjohna@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" It is the ambient temperature at the instrument end of the thermocouple wires. My experience is that that variation is likely less than from instrument to instrument. You will notice some change from in indication at different ambient temperatures but also you engine will generate different CHT/EGT at different temperatures. In short, don't worry about it. You are seeking a reference temperature in any case. John Kerr ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Jones Sent: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:21:55 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" The instructions for my Westach CHT and EGT gages say they are a differential temperature system and are calibrated for a "Cold Junction" of 75 degrees F. This means, for each degree the cold junction is less than 75 degrees the gage will read one degree high and for each degree above 75 degrees at the cold junction the gage will read one degree low. Can someone tell me what the cold Junction is, and where it is so I will have a clue as to what the temperature there might be on any given day? Is it somewhere in the cable or at the gage? -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232096#232096 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:10 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" The cold junction is simply a reverse thermocouple junction exactly like the one you put on your engine. It is usually inside the instrument. (Gauge) Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:52 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" The instructions for my Westach CHT and EGT gages say they are a differential temperature system and are calibrated for a "Cold Junction" of 75 degrees F. This means, for each degree the cold junction is less than 75 degrees the gage will read one degree high and for each degree above 75 degrees at the cold junction the gage will read one degree low. Can someone tell me what the cold Junction is, and where it is so I will have a clue as to what the temperature there might be on any given day? Is it somewhere in the cable or at the gage? -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232096#232096 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:25 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: CHT/EGT "Cold Junction" From: "Tom Jones" Okay, the connections between the thermocouples and the patch cables are behind the fire wall (cabin side) so the "Cold Junction" temperature will be close to the temperature inside the cabin. I wanted to be sure Cold Junction wasn't somewhere in the thermocouple cable on the front side (engine side) of the fire wall picking up engine heat under the cowl. Thanks guys! I can quit wondering about this now. -------- Tom Jones Classic IV 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp Ellensburg, WA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232145#232145 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:37 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? At 10:50 AM 2/25/2009, you wrote: >Solution: Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable >Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing. I also see that Aircraft Spruce >says specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel. Just as a >note, I have checked my fuel source a couple times and have not >found it to contain any ethanol Sorry to say, Darin, but this is really old news which I'm sorry you had to re-discover. I hope it still shows up in the archives. Most guys have gone to SAE fuel injection hose, though some, like me, still use the clear blue. Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:06 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? Is this the $12 per foot stuff? I was picking up some fuel line for my plane a few weeks ago, and couldn't remember what the number was, but thought it was fuel injection hose and the guy mentioned the price, and I *quickly* remembered that it wasn't THAT stuff. : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying do not archive On Feb 25, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Kitfox George wrote: > Goodyear now makes the SAE 30R9 that has a blue inner lining made > for use with Ethanol and alternative fuels. It is very flexible > without kinking and has a small outer diameter. Many auto parts, > such as Autozone, stores sell it by the foot. SAE 30R9 is rated for > fuel injection lines. > > do not archive > > From: Lynn Matteson > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:21:05 AM > Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? > > > I was reading your report and came to the entry "MIL 6000", and > figured that was it. Somewhere in the past I had read about this > stuff on this list, and made a mental note to not use that which > came with my kit. I went with the SAE 30R7, and it has worked > without fail. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:50 PM, darinh wrote: > > > > > Ok guys here is the skinny...about 2 months ago my engine started > to run a bit rough in the higher power ranges (80% and above) but > idle through 75% was good as always. Now my engine only had 25 to > 30 hours on it when this started. I have been tinkering with > different things trying to figure it out but was not able to find > anything out of the ordinary. I have suspected my fuel system > since this began and started with my finger strainers which were > clean. Next my fuel goes through a 40 micron Earl's filter and it > was clean so I didn't bother checking the final filter right before > the engine. I then moved to the carbs and they were fine. So in a > last ditch effort, I decided to completely redo my fuel system > hoses and this is where I found the problem. > > > > Here is how the fuel is routed so you can follow. Fuel from the > tank goes through the finger strainers, through about 15" of -6 > Aeroquip AQP hose and then through 3/8" 5052 aluminum tubing to the > header tank. From the header tank through more 3/8" aluminum to > the 40 micron filter then to the fuel shut off valve. From here it > transitions to 1/2" Mil 6000 hose for about 6" to the pumps then > 5/16" Mil 6000 hose to the final filter (shown in pic) then to the > fuel pressure regulator then to the carbs. > > > > As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and > plugged up. I can barely blow air through it. As stated earlier, > my other filters (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean. So here is > my diagnosis: Mil 6000 hose is deteriorating and plugging the > final filter which is not allowing enough fuel for the high > throttle settings. My engine is a 914 so cruise power is about 5.5 > gph but full power is almost 9 gph. > > > > Solution: Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable > Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing. I also see that Aircraft Spruce > says specifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel. Just as a > note, I have checked my fuel source a couple times and have not > found it to contain any ethanol > > > > -------- > > Darin Hawkes > > Series 7 > > 914 Turbo > > Kaysville, Utah > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#232068 > > > > > > > > > > Attachments: > > > >_- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > _- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > = --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution_- > ======================== > 3D=======================3 > D============ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.