Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:52 AM - Re: new bush gear (Catz631@aol.com)
2. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Clint Bazzill)
3. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Larry Huntley)
4. 11:46 AM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Tom Jones)
5. 02:28 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (darinh)
6. 03:10 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Kitfox George)
7. 03:49 PM - Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (darinh)
8. 04:47 PM - Re: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Noel Loveys)
9. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? (Noel Loveys)
10. 07:10 PM - Re: new bush gear (patrick reilly)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: new bush gear |
I completed the gear installation with the fairings and will post two more
photos.(the fairing from the top of the gear legs to the fuselage is my own
build) This will be my last as I don't want to bore you with this topic. As
mentioned earlier,I am absolutely thrilled with this new gear and would never want
to go back to the old one. The ground handling is fantastic!
The completed fairing installation seems to have added my 3-4 mph speed loss
back to my cruise speed. Keep in mind this is not a scientific analysis but
is based totally on observed indicated airspeed. The fairings are thin .016
skins attached to the gear legs to "clean up" the installation for aerodynamic
purposes, they do not add any strength to the gear as one member had questioned.
I really don't know who came up with the term "bush gear" for this style of
gear. It looks like a cub gear with springs and this type of gear has been
used on a lot of different aircraft. Is it as strong as a Highlander's? (my
favorite aircraft) I doubt it. Is it as strong or stronger than the original. I
don't know that either. Is it easier to maintain and look at? YOU BET!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola,Fl
**************Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your
neighborhood today.
(http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=Tax+Return+Preparation+%26+Filing&ncid=emlcntusyelp00000004)
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
I use mostly Hi Octane Chevron except when I fly cross country. Put over 5
=2C000 gal of fuel through Mil 6000. After removing portions the line=2C
it would be difficult to tell from new. I would like a piece of that bad
fuel line that I keep hearing about to test.
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
> From: gerns25@netscape.net
> Date: Wed=2C 25 Feb 2009 14:44:58 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Guy=2C
>
> This is my thinking as well I know I have not run ethanol but the deterge
nts and additives may be the issue. Clint has used the Mil6000 for 1400 hou
rs without issue but I think he runs 100LL...I could be wrong though.
>
> I bought some Gates Multi-fuel fuel injection hose today that I am going
to use for the 5/16" lines...the other stuff is Aeroquip.
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville=2C Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232113#232113
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
Clint,
When a local Kitfox went down in a meadow here ,the line was cut off
and it had actually swollen shut. I don't know what caused it ,but it
was running mogas. I have run mogas in my Tripacer for years w/ MilSpec
6000 line and have never had any problems. I wish I knew what did it. As
I remember,Don Smythe did some research,but I don't know that he reached
any conclusion.
Facts are :
A few pieces of 6000 have swollen shut and brought down aircraft.
A lot of aircraft have flown for many hrs on 6000 with no problem.
As far as I know,no one knows what has caused the problem.(I somehow
doubt it is alcohol),but I sure wouldn't bet on it.
We know different gasolines have a variety of different additives.
I have used KwikFil for years with no problem, so will probably
continue,but i wouldn't bet on that being sound practice either.
What line does anyone KNOW is good for both 100LL and mogas? I am in
the process of rebuilding two different aircraft and would like to know.
Larry Huntley Kitfox4-1200 Soob,
Tripacer Lyc 160,Funk B75L Lyc GO-145, Dundee,NY
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill
To: Kitfox list
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
I use mostly Hi Octane Chevron except when I fly cross country. Put
over 5,000 gal of fuel through Mil 6000. After removing portions the
line, it would be difficult to tell from new. I would like a piece of
that bad fuel line that I keep hearing about to test.
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
> From: gerns25@netscape.net
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:44:58 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Guy,
>
> This is my thinking as well I know I have not run ethanol but the
detergents and additives may be the issue. Clint has used the Mil6000
for 1400 hours without issue but I think he runs 100LL...I could be
wrong though.
>
> I bought some Gates Multi-fuel fuel injection hose today that I am
going to use for the 5/16" lines...the other stuff is Aeroquip.
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232113#232113
>
>
>
>
>======================
&g=================
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/26/09 07:03:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
Service Letter #45 has a caution about oxygenated fuel deteriorating the Mil spec
fuel line.
Here's the quote from that service letter.
"In addition to the tanks, the fuel lines which are used in the aircraft may be
susceptible to deterioration from these fuels, including the aviation-grade MIL-spec
hose which is currently supplied with the aircraft. Because of this, SkyStar
does not endorse the use of any oxygenated fuels except those which have
MTBE added to them."
Direct link to service bulletin #45. The reference to Mil spec hose is at the bottom
of the last page.
http://www.kitfoxaircraft.com/support/service_letters/sl45.htm
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232254#232254
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
Clint,
I would be happy to send you a piece of the line but please explain how you intend
to test it as I am curious? I only have small sections, none long enough
to install for use.
Tom,
I find it interesting that they say oxygenated fuel deteriorates Mil spec fuel
line as the manufactures listed in the military spec (Gates and Thermoid) both
list the line to be completely compatible with alcohol.
http://www.hbdthermoid.com/images/aviation_ducting/Aeroduct.pdf
Check out page 4...it doesn't say fuel anywhere in the description. Also, Aircraft
Spruce specifically says that the Mil6000 is "Not recommended for fuel line".
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/mil6000.php
At this point, I really don't care if people have used this hose successfully for
a million hours...there are enough documented cases of problems that I am getting
rid of it.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232266#232266
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
Lynn,=0A- Sounds like the right price range for this stuff, but my local
-California Autozone store states the 5/16" Goodyear SAE j30r9 injector h
ose with the blue lining is $3.99 per foot. -Notice I keep saying BLUE LI
NING!=0A=0AI have been around for a little while but changed my email addre
ss from michaega. No that does not mean I know much.--But I have been k
now to hit my head against the wall once in awhile for a better solution.
=0A-George =0A=0A=0ASport Model - 914 / painting =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>=0ATo: kitf
ox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 8:03:50 PM=0ASub
ject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???=0A=0A--> Kitfox
-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>=0A=0AIs this the
$12 per foot stuff? I was picking up some fuel line for my plane a few week
s ago, and couldn't remember what the number was, but thought it was fuel i
njection hose and the guy mentioned the price, and I *quickly* remembered t
hat it wasn't THAT stuff. : )=0A=0ALynn Matteson=0AKitfox IV Speedster, tai
ldragger=0AJabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0ASensenich 62x46=0AElectroair direc
t-fire ignition system=0AStatus: flying=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Feb
25, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Kitfox George wrote:=0A=0A> Goodyear now makes the SA
E 30R9 that has a blue inner lining made for use with Ethanol and alternati
ve fuels. It is very flexible without kinking and has a small outer diamete
r. Many auto parts, such as Autozone, stores sell it by the foot. SAE 30R9
is rated for fuel injection lines.=0A> =0A> do not archive=0A> =0A> From: L
ynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>=0A> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com=0A> Sent:
Wednesday, February 25, 2009 11:21:05 AM=0A> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Gum
med up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???=0A> =0A> --> Kitfox-List message posted b
y: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt@jps.net>=0A> =0A> I was reading your report and
came to the entry "MIL 6000", and figured that was it. Somewhere in the pas
t I had read about this stuff on this list, and made a mental note to not u
se that which came with my kit. I went with the SAE 30R7, and it has worked
without fail.=0A> =0A> Lynn Matteson=0A> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
=0A> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 605 hrs=0A> Sensenich 62x46=0A> Electroair direct-
fire ignition system=0A> Status: flying=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> On Feb 25,
2009, at 1:50 PM, darinh wrote:=0A> =0A> > --> Kitfox-List message posted b
y: "darinh" <gerns25@netscape.net>=0A> >=0A> > Ok guys here is the skinny..
.about 2 months ago my engine started to run a bit rough in the higher powe
r ranges (80% and above) but idle through 75% was good as always.- Now my
engine only had 25 to 30 hours on it when this started.- I have been tin
kering with different things trying to figure it out but was not able to fi
nd anything out of the ordinary.- I have suspected my fuel system since t
his began and started with my finger strainers which were clean.- Next my
fuel goes through a 40 micron Earl's filter and it was clean so I didn't b
other checking the final filter right before the engine.- I then moved to
the carbs and they were fine.- So in a last ditch effort, I decided to c
ompletely redo my fuel system hoses and this is where I found the problem.
=0A> >=0A> > Here is how the fuel is routed so you can follow.- Fuel from
the tank goes through the finger strainers, through about 15" of -6 Aeroqu
ip AQP hose and then through 3/8" 5052 aluminum tubing to the header tank.
- From the header tank through more 3/8" aluminum to the 40 micron filter
then to the fuel shut off valve.- From here it transitions to 1/2" Mil 6
000 hose for about 6" to the pumps then 5/16" Mil 6000 hose to the final fi
lter (shown in pic) then to the fuel pressure regulator then to the carbs.
=0A> >=0A> > As you can see, this final filter is completely gummed and plu
gged up.- I can barely blow air through it.- As stated earlier, my othe
r filters (before the mil 6000 hose) were clean.- So here is my diagnosis
:- Mil 6000 hose is deteriorating and plugging the final filter which is
not allowing enough fuel for the high throttle settings.- My engine is a
914 so cruise power is about 5.5 gph but full power is almost 9 gph.=0A> >
=0A> > Solution:- Get rid of all mil 6000 hose and replace with suitable
Aeroquip hose or aluminum tubing.- I also see that Aircraft Spruce says s
pecifically not to use the Mil 6000 with fuel.- Just as a note, I have ch
ecked my fuel source a couple times and have not found it to contain any et
hanol=0A> >=0A> > --------=0A> > Darin Hawkes=0A> > Series 7=0A> > 914 Turb
o=0A> > Kaysville, Utah=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > Read this topic onlin
e here:=0A> >=0A> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232068#23
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> =0A
=============
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
I bought some Gates fuel injection hose that is SAE30R9 spec also from a local
hose supplier. It says on the hose that it is multi-fuel compatible. Here is
a link to the Goodyear stuff.
http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=14912
A check of Autozone's website though shows it at $12.99 for a 5/16" x 18" piece
which is closer to $9.00 per foot. I paid $6 something a foot for the Gates
SAE30R9 hose. $3.99 per foot is more in line with the fuel emission hose that
your local shops sell. But if you can get the SAE30r9 for that price your getting
a great deal.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232273#232273
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
One of the problems may be that there are as many recipes for mogas out
there as there are brands and "tests" of gas. In fact there may be more
recipes as several oil companies actually change their recipes with the
seasons so the gas you get in September is not be the same as what you got
in July in some instances.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Huntley
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
Clint,
When a local Kitfox went down in a meadow here ,the line was cut off and
it had actually swollen shut. I don't know what caused it ,but it was
running mogas. I have run mogas in my Tripacer for years w/ MilSpec 6000
line and have never had any problems. I wish I knew what did it. As I
remember,Don Smythe did some research,but I don't know that he reached any
conclusion.
Facts are :
A few pieces of 6000 have swollen shut and brought down aircraft.
A lot of aircraft have flown for many hrs on 6000 with no problem.
As far as I know,no one knows what has caused the problem.(I somehow doubt
it is alcohol),but I sure wouldn't bet on it.
We know different gasolines have a variety of different additives.
I have used KwikFil for years with no problem, so will probably
continue,but i wouldn't bet on that being sound practice either.
What line does anyone KNOW is good for both 100LL and mogas? I am in the
process of rebuilding two different aircraft and would like to know.
Larry Huntley Kitfox4-1200 Soob,
Tripacer Lyc 160,Funk B75L Lyc GO-145, Dundee,NY
----- Original Message -----
From: Clint Bazzill <mailto:clint_bazzill@hotmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
I use mostly Hi Octane Chevron except when I fly cross country. Put over
5,000 gal of fuel through Mil 6000. After removing portions the line, it
would be difficult to tell from new. I would like a piece of that bad fuel
line that I keep hearing about to test.
Clint
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
> From: gerns25@netscape.net
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:44:58 -0800
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Guy,
>
> This is my thinking as well I know I have not run ethanol but the
detergents and additives may be the issue. Clint has used the Mil6000 for
1400 hours without issue but I think he runs 100LL...I could be wrong
though.
>
> I bought some Gates Multi-fuel fuel injection hose today that I am going
to use for the 5/16" lines...the other stuff is Aeroquip.
>
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232113#232113
>
>
>
>
>======================
&g=================
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
_____
- Release Date: 02/26/09 07:03:00
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas??? |
Problem may be that it is something else in the MOGAS other than alcohol
that causes the swelling.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 6:57 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Gummed up Fuel Filter - Any Ideas???
Clint,
I would be happy to send you a piece of the line but please explain how you
intend to test it as I am curious? I only have small sections, none long
enough to install for use.
Tom,
I find it interesting that they say oxygenated fuel deteriorates Mil spec
fuel line as the manufactures listed in the military spec (Gates and
Thermoid) both list the line to be completely compatible with alcohol.
http://www.hbdthermoid.com/images/aviation_ducting/Aeroduct.pdf
Check out page 4...it doesn't say fuel anywhere in the description. Also,
Aircraft Spruce specifically says that the Mil6000 is "Not recommended for
fuel line".
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/mil6000.php
At this point, I really don't care if people have used this hose
successfully for a million hours...there are enough documented cases of
problems that I am getting rid of it.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232266#232266
Message 10
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Dick=2C Beautiful! You aren't boring anybody. The added top fairing looks g
reat. I believe my wheels are about the same size as yours.
Do Not Archive
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford=2C IL
From: Catz631@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: new bush gear
I completed the gear installation with the fairings and will post two more
photos.(the fairing from the top of the gear legs to the fuselage is my own
build) This will be my last as I don't want to bore you with this topic. A
s mentioned earlier=2CI am absolutely thrilled with this new gear and would
never want to go back to the old one. The ground handling is fantastic!
The completed fairing installation seems to have added my 3-4 mph speed lo
ss back to my cruise speed. Keep in mind this is not a scientific analysis
but is based totally on observed indicated airspeed. The fairings are thin
.016 skins attached to the gear legs to "clean up" the installation for aer
odynamic purposes=2C they do not add any strength to the gear as one member
had questioned.
I really don't know who came up with the term "bush gear" for this style
of gear. It looks like a cub gear with springs and this type of gear has be
en used on a lot of different aircraft. Is it as strong as a Highlander's?
(my favorite aircraft) I doubt it. Is it as strong or stronger than the ori
ginal. I don't know that either. Is it easier to maintain and look at? YOU
BET!
Dick Maddux
Fox 4-1200
Pensacola
=2CFl
Get a jump start on your taxes. Find a tax professional in your neighborhoo
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