Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Engine Mount Crack (crazyivan)
2. 06:59 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Bob Brennan)
3. 08:07 AM - Re: Engine Mount Crack (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
4. 08:50 AM - Re: Engine Mount Crack (crazyivan)
5. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Noel Loveys)
6. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Lynn Matteson)
7. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Engine Mount Crack (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
8. 01:23 PM - Re: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant (Glenn Horne)
9. 01:28 PM - Re: Engine Mount Crack (crazyivan)
10. 01:33 PM - Re: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant (Bob Brennan)
11. 02:33 PM - KITFOX 4-1200 LEFT STRUT AND RIGHT SIDE GEAR FOR SALE (Peter Newgard)
12. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Bob Brennan)
13. 03:48 PM - Re: Engine Mount Crack (akflyer)
14. 03:57 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Display (akflyer)
15. 04:26 PM - Re: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant (Glenn Horne)
16. 04:42 PM - Re: WingTanks.com (Bob Brennan)
17. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Bob Brennan)
18. 05:52 PM - Re: Fuel Flow Display (akflyer)
19. 06:20 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Flow Display (Bob Brennan)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Engine Mount Crack |
I wanted to pass along some critical information to the group. I have a Kitfox
Speedster with a 1995 standard firewall forward Rotax 912UL (80hp). I found
a crack 3/4 of the way around one of the engine mount tubes that go from the firewall
to the "ring." Kitfox has an SB regarding cracks in this tube and require
a gusset to be welded in to reinforce. Thing is, the SB targets the 912ULS
(100hp) installation because of the kickback the engine gives during start-up
and shut-down. I'm here to tell ya, the 80hp will crack it as well.
It's the tube that comes from the upper right (pilot's view) firewall attach point
to the "ring." It has the right oil tank support bracket attached. It looks
like the crack started in the lower, outboard quadrant of the weld seam by
the "ring."
The red mount in the pictures are my mount. The yellow mount is the replacement
Kitfox sells with a circle around the gusset and the area where my mount cracked.
If you have a 912 and the engine mount without the gusset, then inspect these areas
carefully.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234537#234537
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_engine_mount_563.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crack_4_159.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/crack_3_140.jpg
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
On my Jeep Cherokee's "instantaneous fuel mileage" display I can lift my
foot off the pedal and maintain speed and the display goes up to 200 miles
per gallon! Of course that's going downhill... and going up the same hill it
shows 8 mpg...
Sorry Lynn, couldn't resist<g>, sometimes being curious brings out the
smart-ass in me.
But seriously, I have yet to install my rather expensive fuel flow meter in
my 582 KF2 so am watching this thread with interest. So - 10 mph into a 90
mph wind - IAS or GPS? IAS you are going a true 90, GPS probably 80. To me
IAS is the only thing that is important for fuel flow, a 10 mph headwind
only affects how much fuel and time it will take to get where you're goin'.
But more importantly "twist[ing] the throttle back" did what? Lowered the
airspeed? You found a convenient "hill" to maintain airspeed? What was the
gph before?
On my KF2 I hope to find a cruise "sweet spot" with the fuel flow meter. At
or below 65 it tends to mush and needs more throttle, once I get it on
"plane" it speeds up, speeding up further I suspect will suck more fuel. At
some IAS, unique to each plane no doubt, there's a best economy cruise.
Welcome to Saturday morning pedantry, but I know you enjoy the challenge!(?)
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 13 March 2009 10:40 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
Kinda like starting the ol' engine up without a prop, eh Snake, just
to see what she sounds like? A little impatience at the wrong time
might not be a good thing.
Speaking of fuel flow, I was flying today, and even into a 10 mph
wind at about 90 mph, I was able to twist the throttle back to see
2.9 gph on my Northstar Fuel Flow meter. It's surprising how just a
little less throttle will gain so much in fuel economy.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Mar 13, 2009, at 9:55 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
> did you guys try to power up the unit without it being hooked to
> the ducer first? or was it hooked to ducer, and would not power up
> on the initial try? Alot of instruments don't like to have power
> to them without the ducer being installed. If that was the case,
> and you were impatient and wanted to see what it would do before
> the ducer was hooked up, you may have toasted a good instrument.
>
> Don't know for sure if you did or not, just tossing it out there.
>
> snake
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234520#234520
>
>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Crack |
On Sat, March 14, 2009 4:12 am, crazyivan wrote:
>
> Thing is, the SB targets the 912ULS (100hp) installation
> because of the kickback the engine gives during start-up and shut-down. I'm
here to
> tell ya, the 80hp will crack it as well.
Which propeller are you using?
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"We have rights, as individuals, to give as much of our own money as
we please to charity; but as members of Congress we have no right so
to appropriate a dollar of public money."
-- American hunter, frontiersman, soldier and politician Davy Crockett (1786-1836)
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Crack |
I'm using an IVO ultralight 70". It's a few lbs lighter than the GSC I removed
2.5 years ago.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234552#234552
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
Lots of filling measuring draining and heavens knows what, but won't tell
going on there. Fill, use and refill from known capacity containers that
way you will know exactly what you are replacing... that quantity is the
quantity used.
Just make sure if you refuel from 2.5 gal containers put as close to 2.5 gal
in each one as you can get.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:58 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
SkySteve wrote:
> Have you found a good (ready easy) way to calibrate the fuel meter? I did
read the instructions and figured I'll have to fill both wing tanks, fly for
awhile, then drain the wing tanks and remeasure the fuel left to figure my
real fuel usage.
I have checked my meter several times and it was close enough out of the box
that I have not felt the need to screw with it. I just filled it up with X
amount of gas, went flying for a few hours then I always drain gas out of
the tanks for trailering... What I sucked out of the tank was really dang
close to what the meter said I had remaining.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234426#234426
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
Saturday morning pedantrics are fine, but I was flying this am. : )
I never thought of flying down-hill to get a better reading....if I
had, I'm sure the "hurry up and dump some fuel overboard...you're
making fuel" light would have come on. : )
I don't think my airspeed is exactly accurate, but I was showing
about 90 on it and on the GPS groundspeed...and at about 2000 ft AGL,
how do I know what the exact wind was? I didn't, but the ground wind
was 10 mph, 30 miles further back when I departed. At the point where
I saw 90 by 90, I was showing about 3.1 to 3.2 gph usage. I twisted
(vernier throttle) the throttle back and saw 2.9 gph usage, and speed
dropped to about 85 by 85. I was trying to slow enough to just stay
ahead of my friend's 150 Cessna, and by slowing this small amount,
the speed dropped, but the gph use really dropped. The tach was
showing about 2700 at 90 mph, and about 2540 when throttled back..(.I
think I have too much prop, as the Jab's cruise speed should be
2750-2950 rpm). I was straight and level at the time. I've read some
accounts of people getting 2-point something with their Kitfox's, and
seriously doubted them, but it just shows what throttling back can
do. I'm happy if I get about 3.8-4.1gph, but if I'm in a hurry to
get somewhere, I'll open it up more but seeing 4.8-5.0 makes me
realize how much of a rush I SHOULDN'T be in. Incidentally, on
takeoff, I'll see 5.8-6.0 gph use, and that's enough to point the
nose down a bit and twist the throttle back some. : )
The main reason I got the fuel flow gauge was to determine where the
Bing's needle needs to be for best economy, just like you mentioned,
Bob. I've been using the EGT's for this purpose, but I think the flow
meter will be more instantaneous.
By the way, when we got to where we were going, the fuel price was
$3.26/ gallon for 100 LL, and they had just lowered it from $3.79/
gallon.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 14, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> On my Jeep Cherokee's "instantaneous fuel mileage" display I can
> lift my
> foot off the pedal and maintain speed and the display goes up to
> 200 miles
> per gallon! Of course that's going downhill... and going up the
> same hill it
> shows 8 mpg...
>
> Sorry Lynn, couldn't resist<g>, sometimes being curious brings out the
> smart-ass in me.
>
> But seriously, I have yet to install my rather expensive fuel flow
> meter in
> my 582 KF2 so am watching this thread with interest. So - 10 mph
> into a 90
> mph wind - IAS or GPS? IAS you are going a true 90, GPS probably
> 80. To me
> IAS is the only thing that is important for fuel flow, a 10 mph
> headwind
> only affects how much fuel and time it will take to get where
> you're goin'.
>
> But more importantly "twist[ing] the throttle back" did what?
> Lowered the
> airspeed? You found a convenient "hill" to maintain airspeed? What
> was the
> gph before?
>
> On my KF2 I hope to find a cruise "sweet spot" with the fuel flow
> meter. At
> or below 65 it tends to mush and needs more throttle, once I get it on
> "plane" it speeds up, speeding up further I suspect will suck more
> fuel. At
> some IAS, unique to each plane no doubt, there's a best economy
> cruise.
>
> Welcome to Saturday morning pedantry, but I know you enjoy the
> challenge!(?)
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 13 March 2009 10:40 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
>
>
> Kinda like starting the ol' engine up without a prop, eh Snake, just
> to see what she sounds like? A little impatience at the wrong time
> might not be a good thing.
>
> Speaking of fuel flow, I was flying today, and even into a 10 mph
> wind at about 90 mph, I was able to twist the throttle back to see
> 2.9 gph on my Northstar Fuel Flow meter. It's surprising how just a
> little less throttle will gain so much in fuel economy.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2009, at 9:55 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
>>
>> did you guys try to power up the unit without it being hooked to
>> the ducer first? or was it hooked to ducer, and would not power up
>> on the initial try? Alot of instruments don't like to have power
>> to them without the ducer being installed. If that was the case,
>> and you were impatient and wanted to see what it would do before
>> the ducer was hooked up, you may have toasted a good instrument.
>>
>> Don't know for sure if you did or not, just tossing it out there.
>>
>> snake
>>
>> --------
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
>> Soldotna AK
>> Avid "C" / Mk IV
>> 582 IVO IFA
>> Full Lotus 1260
>> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>>
>> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234520#234520
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Crack |
On Sat, March 14, 2009 7:49 am, crazyivan wrote:
>
> I'm using an IVO ultralight 70". It's a few lbs lighter than the GSC I removed
2.5
> years ago.
This reason I asked is a lighter prop would make the torsional vibration in shutdown
a
little higher frequency. That might be contribute to this failure mode which is
a
fatigue type failure. Fatigue in an Engineering sense is a failure mode that occurs
within the linearly elastic range of the material's stress-strain curve. The slope
of
that curve is E, the modulus of Elasticity and where that line is linear, that
is the
material's elastic range.
The lighter weight prop might produce either higher or lower torsional loads in
shutdown but they will occur in more cycles over a long period of time. Can you
recall
any differences when you went to the lighter prop during shutdown?
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
"The great advances of civilization, whether in architecture or
painting, in science or in literature, in industry or agriculture,
have never come from centralized government."
--economist Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant |
Holly Davidson shops has Kreem.
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "pmorel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
> Lowell
> Thanks for the info. I'm going to get a gallon of Kreem and experiment a
> little with the dilution. I'll call J McBean for a price. I also found
> it at JC Whitney. I have a pair of wing rotisseries I used while building
> the wings that I can put back in service to coat the inside of the fuel
> tanks. I thought I'd never use them again, but I guess I was wrong.
> Thanks again
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The only thing that has had a history in these tanks is Kreem. There is
>> some contorversy about it largely due to it's tendency to flake off if
>> not put in properly prepared tanks.
>>
>> First a rinse with acetone or MEK to prepare the surface, then sloshing
>> according to the Kreem directions. It has been suggested and, most do,
>> to dilute the Kreem 50% with MEK before application. Two or three quarts
>> should do the job on both sides.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Paul Morel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>>
>>
>> Has anyone with already installed fiberglass fuel tanks been able to make
>> them ethanol fuel resistant? My tanks are installed but no fuel has been
>> put in them yet. (Final stages of completion) I'm running a 912 Rotax
>> and plan on using auto fuel. The only fuel I'm able to find in my area
>> contains at least 10% ethanol. I know this subject of ethanol fuel has
>> been beaten to death. What kind of materials are available to protect
>> the tanks and does anyone have suggestions of how to apply it?
>>
>> Paul Morel
>> 912 Speedster
>> Locust Grove, GA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Crack |
I was thinking about the resonance thing as well. Problem is that there was not
a substantial difference between the GSC kick and the Ivo kick. Then again,
higher frequency resonance won't have the higher amplitude that lower f resonance
will have, generally speaking, so I probably would not feel a big increase
of high f resonance for such a short period of time.
Theory aside, a 1 to 2 pound difference in props should not make a difference regarding
a crack in a chromoly tube. Ultimately, I think it was a fatigue issue
caused by a stress riser in the weld seam. It would have cracked eventually
regardless of the prop.
As usual, my 2 cents.
--------
Dave
Speedster 912 UL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234569#234569
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant |
"Holly Davidson" - is that the ladies Harley? ;-)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne
Sent: 14 March 2009 4:22 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
Holly Davidson shops has Kreem.
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "pmorel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
> Lowell
> Thanks for the info. I'm going to get a gallon of Kreem and experiment a
> little with the dilution. I'll call J McBean for a price. I also found
> it at JC Whitney. I have a pair of wing rotisseries I used while building
> the wings that I can put back in service to coat the inside of the fuel
> tanks. I thought I'd never use them again, but I guess I was wrong.
> Thanks again
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> The only thing that has had a history in these tanks is Kreem. There is
>> some contorversy about it largely due to it's tendency to flake off if
>> not put in properly prepared tanks.
>>
>> First a rinse with acetone or MEK to prepare the surface, then sloshing
>> according to the Kreem directions. It has been suggested and, most do,
>> to dilute the Kreem 50% with MEK before application. Two or three quarts
>> should do the job on both sides.
>>
>> Lowell
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Paul Morel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>>
>>
>> Has anyone with already installed fiberglass fuel tanks been able to make
>> them ethanol fuel resistant? My tanks are installed but no fuel has been
>> put in them yet. (Final stages of completion) I'm running a 912 Rotax
>> and plan on using auto fuel. The only fuel I'm able to find in my area
>> contains at least 10% ethanol. I know this subject of ethanol fuel has
>> been beaten to death. What kind of materials are available to protect
>> the tanks and does anyone have suggestions of how to apply it?
>>
>> Paul Morel
>> 912 Speedster
>> Locust Grove, GA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | KITFOX 4-1200 LEFT STRUT AND RIGHT SIDE GEAR FOR SALE |
THE STRUT IS NEW WITH WOOD FAIRING AND STITS FABRIC COVER. PRICE $350.
THE RIGHT SIDE BUNGEE STYLE GEAR IS USED ABOUT 400 HRS. WITH AXLE BUT
NO WHEEL OR BRAKE. PRICE IS $50.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
According to the Model II POH, with the 65hp 582, fuel consumption at 65mph
is 2.1gph and at 85mph it is 3.7gph; nearly twice as much for an extra
20mph! I have found that I need to maintain around 70mph IAS, at 65 it tends
to "fall off the plane" and lose airspeed quickly. I'm not sure if it's just
my plane or a characteristic of the II but it can be a problem. Seeing the
rating go from 2.1gph to 3.7 within my usable cruise range it makes me want
to see a curve there so I can get the efficiency.
So I should go out now and install that bloody expensive equipment and get
flying again! We have a disadvantage here in South Central Pa where the
grass strips are either frozen with nasty bumps or melted with mud patches
that'll suck your boots off. And no snow for skis, maybe I should move...
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 14 March 2009 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
Saturday morning pedantrics are fine, but I was flying this am. : )
I never thought of flying down-hill to get a better reading....if I
had, I'm sure the "hurry up and dump some fuel overboard...you're
making fuel" light would have come on. : )
I don't think my airspeed is exactly accurate, but I was showing
about 90 on it and on the GPS groundspeed...and at about 2000 ft AGL,
how do I know what the exact wind was? I didn't, but the ground wind
was 10 mph, 30 miles further back when I departed. At the point where
I saw 90 by 90, I was showing about 3.1 to 3.2 gph usage. I twisted
(vernier throttle) the throttle back and saw 2.9 gph usage, and speed
dropped to about 85 by 85. I was trying to slow enough to just stay
ahead of my friend's 150 Cessna, and by slowing this small amount,
the speed dropped, but the gph use really dropped. The tach was
showing about 2700 at 90 mph, and about 2540 when throttled back..(.I
think I have too much prop, as the Jab's cruise speed should be
2750-2950 rpm). I was straight and level at the time. I've read some
accounts of people getting 2-point something with their Kitfox's, and
seriously doubted them, but it just shows what throttling back can
do. I'm happy if I get about 3.8-4.1gph, but if I'm in a hurry to
get somewhere, I'll open it up more but seeing 4.8-5.0 makes me
realize how much of a rush I SHOULDN'T be in. Incidentally, on
takeoff, I'll see 5.8-6.0 gph use, and that's enough to point the
nose down a bit and twist the throttle back some. : )
The main reason I got the fuel flow gauge was to determine where the
Bing's needle needs to be for best economy, just like you mentioned,
Bob. I've been using the EGT's for this purpose, but I think the flow
meter will be more instantaneous.
By the way, when we got to where we were going, the fuel price was
$3.26/ gallon for 100 LL, and they had just lowered it from $3.79/
gallon.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 14, 2009, at 9:57 AM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> On my Jeep Cherokee's "instantaneous fuel mileage" display I can
> lift my
> foot off the pedal and maintain speed and the display goes up to
> 200 miles
> per gallon! Of course that's going downhill... and going up the
> same hill it
> shows 8 mpg...
>
> Sorry Lynn, couldn't resist<g>, sometimes being curious brings out the
> smart-ass in me.
>
> But seriously, I have yet to install my rather expensive fuel flow
> meter in
> my 582 KF2 so am watching this thread with interest. So - 10 mph
> into a 90
> mph wind - IAS or GPS? IAS you are going a true 90, GPS probably
> 80. To me
> IAS is the only thing that is important for fuel flow, a 10 mph
> headwind
> only affects how much fuel and time it will take to get where
> you're goin'.
>
> But more importantly "twist[ing] the throttle back" did what?
> Lowered the
> airspeed? You found a convenient "hill" to maintain airspeed? What
> was the
> gph before?
>
> On my KF2 I hope to find a cruise "sweet spot" with the fuel flow
> meter. At
> or below 65 it tends to mush and needs more throttle, once I get it on
> "plane" it speeds up, speeding up further I suspect will suck more
> fuel. At
> some IAS, unique to each plane no doubt, there's a best economy
> cruise.
>
> Welcome to Saturday morning pedantry, but I know you enjoy the
> challenge!(?)
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 13 March 2009 10:40 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
>
>
> Kinda like starting the ol' engine up without a prop, eh Snake, just
> to see what she sounds like? A little impatience at the wrong time
> might not be a good thing.
>
> Speaking of fuel flow, I was flying today, and even into a 10 mph
> wind at about 90 mph, I was able to twist the throttle back to see
> 2.9 gph on my Northstar Fuel Flow meter. It's surprising how just a
> little less throttle will gain so much in fuel economy.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
> do not archive
>
>
> On Mar 13, 2009, at 9:55 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
>>
>> did you guys try to power up the unit without it being hooked to
>> the ducer first? or was it hooked to ducer, and would not power up
>> on the initial try? Alot of instruments don't like to have power
>> to them without the ducer being installed. If that was the case,
>> and you were impatient and wanted to see what it would do before
>> the ducer was hooked up, you may have toasted a good instrument.
>>
>> Don't know for sure if you did or not, just tossing it out there.
>>
>> snake
>>
>> --------
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
>> Soldotna AK
>> Avid "C" / Mk IV
>> 582 IVO IFA
>> Full Lotus 1260
>> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>>
>> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234520#234520
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Crack |
The weld does come in pretty sharply at the toe on the bottom. The stress riser
theory has alot going for it, and once the crack started it just propagated
around the heat affected zone. One reason I make sure all the welds I visual
and accept transition smoothly to the base metal.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234582#234582
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> According to the Model II POH, with the 65hp 582, fuel consumption at 65mph
> is 2.1gph and at 85mph it is 3.7gph; nearly twice as much for an extra
> 20mph! I have found that I need to maintain around 70mph IAS, at 65 it tends
> to "fall off the plane" and lose airspeed quickly. I'm not sure if it's just
> my plane or a characteristic of the II but it can be a problem. Seeing the
> rating go from 2.1gph to 3.7 within my usable cruise range it makes me want
> to see a curve there so I can get the efficiency.
>
> So I should go out now and install that bloody expensive equipment and get
> flying again! We have a disadvantage here in South Central Pa where the
> grass strips are either frozen with nasty bumps or melted with mud patches
> that'll suck your boots off. And no snow for skis, maybe I should move...
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Flying my brothers model II and a buddies model I and my Avid C I have not seen
anything CLOSE to those numbers. at 85 it is closer to 5.5- 5.8 GPH. To get
into the low 4s or high 3s I have to pull it back to about 55-60 mph. I checked
this over about 300 hrs on the model II and 30 hrs on the Avid.
The attached pic shows the fuel flow at ~80 IAS and a fuel flow of 5.1
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234584#234584
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02143_208.jpg
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant |
That why I don't own a Harley. Don't know how to spell it'
GLENN HORNE
Kitfox Model II
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Brennan" <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> "Holly Davidson" - is that the ladies Harley? ;-)
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn Horne
> Sent: 14 March 2009 4:22 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
>
> Holly Davidson shops has Kreem.
> GLENN HORNE
> Kitfox Model II
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "pmorel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:39 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>
>
>>
>> Lowell
>> Thanks for the info. I'm going to get a gallon of Kreem and experiment a
>> little with the dilution. I'll call J McBean for a price. I also found
>> it at JC Whitney. I have a pair of wing rotisseries I used while
>> building
>
>> the wings that I can put back in service to coat the inside of the fuel
>> tanks. I thought I'd never use them again, but I guess I was wrong.
>> Thanks again
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 3:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> The only thing that has had a history in these tanks is Kreem. There is
>>> some contorversy about it largely due to it's tendency to flake off if
>>> not put in properly prepared tanks.
>>>
>>> First a rinse with acetone or MEK to prepare the surface, then sloshing
>>> according to the Kreem directions. It has been suggested and, most do,
>>> to dilute the Kreem 50% with MEK before application. Two or three
>>> quarts
>
>>> should do the job on both sides.
>>>
>>> Lowell
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Paul Morel" <pmorel@bellsouth.net>
>>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 6:58 AM
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Making Fiberglass fuel tanks Ethanol resistant
>>>
>>>
>>> Has anyone with already installed fiberglass fuel tanks been able to
>>> make
>
>>> them ethanol fuel resistant? My tanks are installed but no fuel has
>>> been
>
>>> put in them yet. (Final stages of completion) I'm running a 912 Rotax
>>> and plan on using auto fuel. The only fuel I'm able to find in my area
>>> contains at least 10% ethanol. I know this subject of ethanol fuel has
>>> been beaten to death. What kind of materials are available to protect
>>> the tanks and does anyone have suggestions of how to apply it?
>>>
>>> Paul Morel
>>> 912 Speedster
>>> Locust Grove, GA
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Just to clear up any doubt about wingtanks.com I may have created here - I
received a response from Brett at Airdale today and the only problem was
that he had admittedly sent the replies to someone else. So they are alive
and well and still selling tanks.
Bob
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: 13 March 2009 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: WingTanks.com
I know this isn't much help, but just the fact that they don't respond to
the email address listed on their web site speaks volumes to me.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Brennan <mailto:matronics@bob.brennan.name>
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: WingTanks.com
Has anyone actually dealt with these guys(http://wingtanks.com)? Recently?
Further to my thread a while ago about installing wing tanks in my KF2 I
sent off an email to the only contact info listed on their
site(sales@wingtanks.com). That was about a month ago and I re-sent it a
week ago using a more reliable email server (gmail) just in case, but still
no response.
If anyone has dealt with them in the past - how was the response, service,
support, and the items supplied? And does anyone have an alternative means
of contacting them or know if they are still in business?
Thanks in advance
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
Interesting - are those numbers from a stock 582, C box, GCS prop? Empty
weight close to the published numbers in the POH at
http://cfisher.com/kitfox/kitfox2poh.pdf of 440 lbs? Slim and fit pilot? ;-)
Like I said I have yet to install the fuel flow gauge but while I was
training, with 2 aboard of course, I could easily get 4 hours on a full 15
gallons of fuel, with reserve, which is less than 4 gph. I haven't done
accurate measurements as solo pilot but I usually figure around 2.5 to 3.5
gph depending on what I'm doing.
One of the things that I think makes my KF2 slippery is that I have a
horizontal trim tab and *never* use flaps for trim. Do you trim with flaps
(read "induced drag")?
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: 14 March 2009 6:57 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> According to the Model II POH, with the 65hp 582, fuel consumption at
65mph
> is 2.1gph and at 85mph it is 3.7gph; nearly twice as much for an extra
> 20mph! I have found that I need to maintain around 70mph IAS, at 65 it
tends
> to "fall off the plane" and lose airspeed quickly. I'm not sure if it's
just
> my plane or a characteristic of the II but it can be a problem. Seeing the
> rating go from 2.1gph to 3.7 within my usable cruise range it makes me
want
> to see a curve there so I can get the efficiency.
>
> So I should go out now and install that bloody expensive equipment and get
> flying again! We have a disadvantage here in South Central Pa where the
> grass strips are either frozen with nasty bumps or melted with mud patches
> that'll suck your boots off. And no snow for skis, maybe I should move...
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
Flying my brothers model II and a buddies model I and my Avid C I have not
seen anything CLOSE to those numbers. at 85 it is closer to 5.5- 5.8 GPH.
To get into the low 4s or high 3s I have to pull it back to about 55-60 mph.
I checked this over about 300 hrs on the model II and 30 hrs on the Avid.
The attached pic shows the fuel flow at ~80 IAS and a fuel flow of 5.1
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234584#234584
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc02143_208.jpg
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Interesting - are those numbers from a stock 582, C box, GCS prop? Empty
> weight close to the published numbers in the POH at
> http://cfisher.com/kitfox/kitfox2poh.pdf of 440 lbs? Slim and fit pilot? ;-)
>
> Like I said I have yet to install the fuel flow gauge but while I was
> training, with 2 aboard of course, I could easily get 4 hours on a full 15
> gallons of fuel, with reserve, which is less than 4 gph. I haven't done
> accurate measurements as solo pilot but I usually figure around 2.5 to 3.5
> gph depending on what I'm doing.
>
> One of the things that I think makes my KF2 slippery is that I have a
> horizontal trim tab and *never* use flaps for trim. Do you trim with flaps
> (read "induced drag")?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
negative ghost rider... little thingy below and to the right of the fuel flow is
the electric elevator trim indicator lol.
I think part of my issue is that I am towards the forward CG. I am moving it back
to 18" and gonna try that. Dean Wilson said it will make a huge difference
in the flight performance, for the better... now I wonder what would happen
if I clipped the wings to 26' and moved the CG to the aft edge of the wing.........
sorry, had to put that in there.. I have been good lately and that just
aint right for a snake oil salesman
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234601#234601
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Flow Display |
I think that our little hand-tweaked aircraft are *very* sensitive to minor
"adjustments". Especially with that high power to weight ratio. That's why
(among other reasons) this forum is so helpful to me, and even in flight I
am forever searching for that magical "sweet spot". Not to diss(respect)
Cessnas, but the 172's I fly do what they do, and they all do it pretty much
the same. Kitfoxes, they're like ladies.... with all due respect ;-) to
Kitfoxes!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of akflyer
Sent: 14 March 2009 8:51 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Fuel Flow Display
matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote:
> Interesting - are those numbers from a stock 582, C box, GCS prop? Empty
> weight close to the published numbers in the POH at
> http://cfisher.com/kitfox/kitfox2poh.pdf of 440 lbs? Slim and fit pilot?
;-)
>
> Like I said I have yet to install the fuel flow gauge but while I was
> training, with 2 aboard of course, I could easily get 4 hours on a full 15
> gallons of fuel, with reserve, which is less than 4 gph. I haven't done
> accurate measurements as solo pilot but I usually figure around 2.5 to 3.5
> gph depending on what I'm doing.
>
> One of the things that I think makes my KF2 slippery is that I have a
> horizontal trim tab and *never* use flaps for trim. Do you trim with flaps
> (read "induced drag")?
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> --
negative ghost rider... little thingy below and to the right of the fuel
flow is the electric elevator trim indicator lol.
I think part of my issue is that I am towards the forward CG. I am moving
it back to 18" and gonna try that. Dean Wilson said it will make a huge
difference in the flight performance, for the better... now I wonder what
would happen if I clipped the wings to 26' and moved the CG to the aft edge
of the wing......... sorry, had to put that in there.. I have been good
lately and that just aint right for a snake oil salesman
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234601#234601
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|