Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:00 AM - Re: Proper Fix? (dave)
2. 05:18 AM - Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (dave)
3. 05:25 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (dave)
4. 05:29 AM - Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... (dave)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: Rudder trim tab (Catz631@aol.com)
6. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (Larry Huntley)
7. 06:04 AM - Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (dave)
8. 06:14 AM - Re: New Forum (dave)
9. 07:05 AM - Torque values NSI (Michael Logan)
10. 07:10 AM - TR-3 (Michael Logan)
11. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Lowell Fitt)
12. 08:48 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (WurlyBird)
13. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (paul wilson)
14. 09:09 AM - Re: Rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
15. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Ron Liebmann)
16. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson)
17. 11:11 AM - Re: Torque values NSI (fox5flyer)
18. 03:32 PM - Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Guy Buchanan)
19. 04:53 PM - Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Ron Liebmann)
20. 04:53 PM - Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Ron Liebmann)
21. 05:47 PM - Oil Fitting (Kitfoxkirk)
22. 06:01 PM - Re-applying Kreem (Kitfoxkirk)
23. 06:32 PM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (WurlyBird)
Message 1
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Aluminum tanks crack from flexing in the Kitfox wing.
Sloshing is a bandaid solution and not always perfect in the end.
I am going to install the www.wingtanks.com tanks in a Kitfox 2 this year some time. I looking for comments.
I have a dash tank in my Kitfox and I think it might be the same material as the
wingtanks guys use, if so it is great. Highlanders and Skyraiders use the same
material in their tanks.
MY tanks have ZERO sloshing in them and Have no troubles.
I just posted a comment on a new forum about these tanks asking for input. Airdale has apparently sold many tanks now and I would like to hear form some owners that have installed. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88
All this being said I have run thousands of gallons of the Fear mongered Ethanol gas through my tanks with no trouble with my fiberglass tanks yet. Here is more on that topic there. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=85
That new forum is sweet -- you can post a youtube video right into the post.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235604#235604
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools |
Larry , I converted a Kitfox IV from floats to Bungee gear yesterday.
I gotta agree , bungess are so easy to do with out visegrips,pliers, tiewraps and
all the nonsense I read about. Great tough gear too and lighter on the wallet
and airplane than the newer gears out there :)
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87
no more than 5 minutes to do both bungees so easy -----
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235607#235607
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
James,
If your tank is leaking then replace it . Sloshing is not the answer.
Mc bean sells new tanks but i not sure what is involved in replacing with them.
I have a Kitfox 2 to do soon and I pretty sure I will be using the wingtanks.com tanks http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88
This 2 Kitfox has no wing tanks now so i not sure what i have to do yet.
If you have existing tank it looks easy --jut fits inside of existing tank ( you
know the one that leaks now. ) looks like a fast solution that will work though.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235609#235609
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... |
I did bungees yesterday on a Kitfox IV of Gary Walsh ,.
% minutes max to do both. Larry is right. it is so easy but many make alot of
effort to hate them.
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87
LOL i should sell a 5 minute CD to show you how to do it so easy and fast........
or I could spend 1500 $ on new gear and gain some weight and lose some in
my wallet :-) yikes
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235610#235610
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
James,
This is the way I did it. Just a small aluminum plate I attached with 4 #6
or #4 screws (can't remember which) so that I could remove it or increase the
tab size if I needed to. I had to adjust the bend a couple of times but now it
is spot on (as the British would say). I have a picture from my files albeit
not very good.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Pensacola,Fl
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools |
Dave, What is your address? I will be driving across on the QEW in a couple
of days. Will probably be short on time ,but who knows. Sure would like to
see your gear. Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
----- Original Message -----
From: "dave" <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:17 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools
>
> Larry , I converted a Kitfox IV from floats to Bungee gear yesterday.
> I gotta agree , bungess are so easy to do with out visegrips,pliers,
> tiewraps and all the nonsense I read about. Great tough gear too and
> lighter on the wallet and airplane than the newer gears out there :)
>
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87
>
> no more than 5 minutes to do both bungees so easy -----
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235607#235607
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:01:00
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools |
Larry I am about 90 minutes from Hamilton.
You can type in where you at at here
http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=15123%20nine%20mile%20road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
And drive right in. Let me know what day and time range so I can make sure i here.
If you flying check ahead all 3 runways are usable but a few wet spots in
places still. If you got King fox tires - heck land anywhere.
You coming to buy a CD -- how to put on those evil bungees in 5 minutes LOL ?
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235617#235617
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/kingfox_288.jpg
Message 8
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Noel, Great -- site -- i not been here for months now , but i am over at that
new forum .
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
They got Rotax documents there too
http://rotaxaircraft.com/
This is what i like -- I posted a video from youtube right into the message forum
and you can watch it there.
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30
Anyhow -- going flying -- muddin - have a blast !!
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235624#235624
Message 9
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| Subject: | Torque values NSI |
Deke,
I went out and measured my bolts and looked at the NSI manual. The bolts on
mine are AN5-7a's and the torque value is 100 inch-pounds.
Mike Logan
Series 5 NSI Subaru converted by RAM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Torque values
Yup, Lynn, it's a metal cockpit adjustable prop hub by NSI (CAP). The
blades are all carbon fiber by Warp Drive. The bolts go through the crank
hub and into the prop hub about an inch deep then the bolt heads are all
safety wired on the engine side of the crank hub.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Torque values
>
> Hey, Deke, is it a metal prop? Or does it have a metal hub? The numbers
> on those are a lot less critical (I would think) than if the bolts are
> going to be "crushing" wood. Also, I noticed that you said you have
> AN5-10 bolts....I can't believe the "-10" part. This would make the bolts
> too short to go through almost anything, so I'm assuming that's a
> typo...is it? I'm thinking that if they're that short, they're only going
> through metal, so the range is probably not as critical as a wood
> application.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 616.5 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
> On Mar 21, 2009, at 7:34 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
>
>>
>> Thanks, Lynn, et al. I'm surprised how hard it's been to get good hard
>> data on these torque values. AC43.13 has some info--and good stuff too,
>> but it doesn't go deep enough and seems to assume we all know about
>> interference drag, etc. I called a local IA who couldn't definitively
>> answer the question either, other than to say that he usually just picks
>> a value somewhere in the middle of the spread. He also said he rarely
>> bothers with a torque wrench and just goes by feel, depending on what
>> he's doing. After wrenching on airplanes for 30 years, he probably has
>> that "feel", but I don't trust mine. He also said that the torque
>> values are only a guide and that "close is good enough" in most cases.
>> I tend to agree with him for the most part, but not with my prop! I
>> want that puppy exactly like it's supposed to be. :-) So, unless I
>> can find some more information on this I'm not going to worry too much
>> about it.
>> Deke Morisse
>> Mikado Michigan
>> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
>> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
>> progress."
>> - Joseph Joubert
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Nice looking TR-3 in the background there Dick. My dad had one when I was
growing up.
Mike Logan
_____
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rudder trim tab
James,
This is the way I did it. Just a small aluminum plate I attached with 4 #6
or #4 screws (can't remember which) so that I could remove it or increase
the tab size if I needed to. I had to adjust the bend a couple of times but
now it is spot on (as the British would say). I have a picture from my files
albeit not very good.
Dick Maddux
Fox 4
Pensacola,Fl
_____
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner
<http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001> for $10 or
less.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
Mike,
I checked my picture files and found nothing. Dick Maddox's picture is
about like mine and in the same location. It is aluminum and likely .025.
Lowell
----- Original Message -----
From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:23 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> Lowell, what size tab did you use and what were it's dimensions? What is
> it made of? Have any pictures you could send me?
>
> Thanks a lot
>
> James
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235570#235570
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
They are fiberglass tanks, 2 x 6 gal. I have pretty much come to the conclusion
that replacing them is the thing to do, especially since the new tanks are ethanol
resistant so that opens up more fueling options. My primary concern is
the fabric repair that will accompany the tank replacement. Will I still need
to take off the wings? Am I just better off getting an A&P to do it? I don't
really feel like purchasing all the stuff to start spraying paint right now,
especially not if I have to dish out about a grand for new tanks.
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235645#235645
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
I saw a simple fix. It was a small triangular piece glued to the
rudder. Easy to change and fine tune. No drilling etc. It appeared to
be white plastic.
I wonder if it lasted?
Paul
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
Here's how I did mine, James. Take the aluminum plate and "forge" it
over a scrap piece of tubing or a 3/8" extension, and you'll be able
to get the pop rivets into 2 different rows around the trailing edge
tubing of the rudder. This will allow for a MUCH stronger attachment
than if you just ran a straight row of rivets. If you don't...and you
do much altering of the tab.....you'll run the risk of bending the
rivets and the tab will become loose. I attached mine with aluminum
rivets so I could drill the out if I decided on another method. My
aluminum rivets haven't loosened in the 500 or so hours since I
installed it.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 21, 2009, at 7:24 PM, WurlyBird wrote:
> <james.t.trizzino@us.army.mil>
>
> I am wondering if anybody has made a rudder trim tab and would like
> to share how they did it? I know it will only be really accurate
> at one airspeed and I am okay with that since I spend a lot more
> time at "cruise" then throttled back for a landing.
>
> I assume it is as simple as riveting a sheet of steel or aluminum
> to the rudder and then just experimenting with it's deflection.
> Any input?
>
> Did I mention I soloed the Kitfox today? I mean on this thread of
> course. :D
>
> --------
> James
> Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
> 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235554#235554
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
I made my rudder trim a cockpit adjustable one and am happy with it. If
anyone wants more info on how it is made, just e-mail me on or off list.
Ron rliebmann@comcast.net
From: "paul wilson" <pwmac@sisna.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab
>
> I saw a simple fix. It was a small triangular piece glued to the rudder.
> Easy to change and fine tune. No drilling etc. It appeared to be white
> plastic.
> I wonder if it lasted?
> Paul
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trim tab |
Hi Ron-
The question is, how are you gonna fly your giant RC model now that
you borrowed those control horns from it? : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote:
> I made my rudder trim a cockpit adjustable one and am happy with
> it. If anyone wants more info on how it is made, just e-mail me on
> or off list.
>
> Ron rliebmann@comcast.net
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Torque values NSI |
Hi, Mike. Thanks for the input. I just checked my bolts again and I was
wrong. They're actually AN5-11A, not -10A. The bolts I have are the ones
that came with the FWF package. My manual doesn't give a bolt size that I
can find, but it does clearly say to torque to 150 in lbs. Again, I checked
the chart I have and it says 180-220, but there are so many variables to
torque values that when using charts it's almost an estimate. Then I
checked for torque values using Google and that's when my head really began
to spin. Too many variables, like crow foot, oiled bolt, dry bolt, zinc
plate, no plating, tensile strength of bolt, strength of nut, etc. It just
goes on and on. Fortunately I have the NSI numbers or I'd end up not sure
at all what to use.
Anyway, I'll be using 150 in lbs, not only because it's what my manual says
to use, but it also sounds reasonable to me.
Actually, my question was what to use when there is no manufacturer number
and the chart says 180-220 in lbs. Never really got an answer to that, but
I'll let it go.
Thanks again,
Deke
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Logan" <michael.logan@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Torque values NSI
>
> Deke,
>
> I went out and measured my bolts and looked at the NSI manual. The bolts
> on
> mine are AN5-7a's and the torque value is 100 inch-pounds.
>
> Mike Logan
> Series 5 NSI Subaru converted by RAM
Message 18
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| Subject: | Replacing 3 wings with 4 |
All,
A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4
wings. Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the
decalage the same between the 3 and 4?
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 |
He will have to change the false rib that is part of the fuselage where the
wing meets up with it. This is because the ribs are different. Its an easy
thing to change.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4
>
> All,
> A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4 wings.
> Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the decalage the
> same between the 3 and 4?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 |
He will have to change the false rib that is part of the fuselage where the
wing meets up with it. This is because the ribs are different. Its an easy
thing to change.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn@nethere.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4
>
> All,
> A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4 wings.
> Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the decalage the
> same between the 3 and 4?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Guy Buchanan
> San Diego, CA
> K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
>
>
>
Message 21
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Hello Kitfoxers,
Does anybody have a part number for an oil fitting that screws into the oil
intake side (oil pump inlet) of the Rotax 912, and the other thread end goes
to an Earl's fitting? I have one from an auto parts store that claims it is
37 degrees (aviation) as opposed to the 40 degree automotive. Mine leaks
and I think the fitting on the engine is not the same angle as the Earl's
fittings.
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV Speedster
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re-applying Kreem |
Hello Kitfoxers again,
I think I am going to re-slosh my fuel tanks. Does anybody have a procedure
for this? The Kreem website is not specific to fiberglass tanks. They say to
leave acetone in a steel tank for 24 hours to dissolve old Kreem, then
re-coat with new Kreem. I think 24 hours would destroy a fiberglass tank.
Also, where does one get a gas cap that can be used in the sloshing process?
The reason I am going to re-slosh with new Kreem is that my Rotax 912 has
been rough running for 5 years now. For the last 14 months, the entire plane
was down with LEAF in southern WI. They tried everything to get this engine
running smooth. Eric Tucker himself looked at this engine several times and
he is stumped. I got the plane back, and started thinking of all the logical
things that this could be. Then I remembered seeing a black mist like
deposit on the inside of the intake manifold. LEAF said that it was just
from running auto gas and that auto gas is not as clean as av-gas. But, when
I asked some other Rotax service guy, he said that there should be nothing
but clean gas in the intake manifold. So, I googled the subject, and on a
boating website it stated that ethanol mixed with fiberglass fuel tanks can
produce a black misty like tar under the carb, and that you cannot see the
black mist in a fuel sample, nor will the filter stop it. Hence, I am going
to re-slosh my tanks.
I only use non-ethanol premium autogas, but you never know what you are
getting from the gas station.
Has anyone else seen any black mist-like deposits inside there intake
manifold?
Thanks,
Kirk Martenson
Classic IV Speedster
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
I checked out the Wingtank.com site and I like what I see. But I as well would
like to hear some first hand experiences. It claims that the tanks are installed
inside the existing tanks but it the installation photos it shows the tanks
being installed in just the wing. I fear it sounds to good to be true. Any
one used these yet?
--------
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop
4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235749#235749
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