---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/22/09: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:00 AM - Re: Proper Fix? (dave) 2. 05:18 AM - Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (dave) 3. 05:25 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (dave) 4. 05:29 AM - Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... (dave) 5. 05:39 AM - Re: Rudder trim tab (Catz631@aol.com) 6. 05:39 AM - Re: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (Larry Huntley) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools (dave) 8. 06:14 AM - Re: New Forum (dave) 9. 07:05 AM - Torque values NSI (Michael Logan) 10. 07:10 AM - TR-3 (Michael Logan) 11. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Lowell Fitt) 12. 08:48 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (WurlyBird) 13. 08:52 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (paul wilson) 14. 09:09 AM - Re: Rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson) 15. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Ron Liebmann) 16. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Rudder trim tab (Lynn Matteson) 17. 11:11 AM - Re: Torque values NSI (fox5flyer) 18. 03:32 PM - Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Guy Buchanan) 19. 04:53 PM - Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Ron Liebmann) 20. 04:53 PM - Re: Replacing 3 wings with 4 (Ron Liebmann) 21. 05:47 PM - Oil Fitting (Kitfoxkirk) 22. 06:01 PM - Re-applying Kreem (Kitfoxkirk) 23. 06:32 PM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (WurlyBird) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:32 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Proper Fix? From: "dave" Aluminum tanks crack from flexing in the Kitfox wing. Sloshing is a bandaid solution and not always perfect in the end. I am going to install the www.wingtanks.com tanks in a Kitfox 2 this year some time. I looking for comments. I have a dash tank in my Kitfox and I think it might be the same material as the wingtanks guys use, if so it is great. Highlanders and Skyraiders use the same material in their tanks. MY tanks have ZERO sloshing in them and Have no troubles. I just posted a comment on a new forum about these tanks asking for input. Airdale has apparently sold many tanks now and I would like to hear form some owners that have installed. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88 All this being said I have run thousands of gallons of the Fear mongered Ethanol gas through my tanks with no trouble with my fiberglass tanks yet. Here is more on that topic there. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=85 That new forum is sweet -- you can post a youtube video right into the post. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235604#235604 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:37 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools From: "dave" Larry , I converted a Kitfox IV from floats to Bungee gear yesterday. I gotta agree , bungess are so easy to do with out visegrips,pliers, tiewraps and all the nonsense I read about. Great tough gear too and lighter on the wallet and airplane than the newer gears out there :) http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87 no more than 5 minutes to do both bungees so easy ----- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235607#235607 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:22 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: leaking fuel inside the wing From: "dave" James, If your tank is leaking then replace it . Sloshing is not the answer. Mc bean sells new tanks but i not sure what is involved in replacing with them. I have a Kitfox 2 to do soon and I pretty sure I will be using the wingtanks.com tanks http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88 This 2 Kitfox has no wing tanks now so i not sure what i have to do yet. If you have existing tank it looks easy --jut fits inside of existing tank ( you know the one that leaks now. ) looks like a fast solution that will work though. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235609#235609 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:27 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: 582 Thermostat/Bungee wraps... From: "dave" I did bungees yesterday on a Kitfox IV of Gary Walsh ,. % minutes max to do both. Larry is right. it is so easy but many make alot of effort to hate them. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87 LOL i should sell a 5 minute CD to show you how to do it so easy and fast........ or I could spend 1500 $ on new gear and gain some weight and lose some in my wallet :-) yikes -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235610#235610 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:07 AM PST US From: Catz631@aol.com Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rudder trim tab James, This is the way I did it. Just a small aluminum plate I attached with 4 #6 or #4 screws (can't remember which) so that I could remove it or increase the tab size if I needed to. I had to adjust the bend a couple of times but now it is spot on (as the British would say). I have a picture from my files albeit not very good. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Pensacola,Fl **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:39:52 AM PST US From: "Larry Huntley" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools Dave, What is your address? I will be driving across on the QEW in a couple of days. Will probably be short on time ,but who knows. Sure would like to see your gear. Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY ----- Original Message ----- From: "dave" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools > > Larry , I converted a Kitfox IV from floats to Bungee gear yesterday. > I gotta agree , bungess are so easy to do with out visegrips,pliers, > tiewraps and all the nonsense I read about. Great tough gear too and > lighter on the wallet and airplane than the newer gears out there :) > > http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87 > > no more than 5 minutes to do both bungees so easy ----- > > -------- > Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada > http://www.cfisher.com/ > Awesome *New Forum * > http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ > Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth > http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235607#235607 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 19:01:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:54 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Emailing: Kitfox shock cord tools From: "dave" Larry I am about 90 minutes from Hamilton. You can type in where you at at here http://maps.google.com/maps?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=15123%20nine%20mile%20road&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl And drive right in. Let me know what day and time range so I can make sure i here. If you flying check ahead all 3 runways are usable but a few wet spots in places still. If you got King fox tires - heck land anywhere. You coming to buy a CD -- how to put on those evil bungees in 5 minutes LOL ? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235617#235617 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kingfox_288.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:09 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: New Forum From: "dave" Noel, Great -- site -- i not been here for months now , but i am over at that new forum . http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ They got Rotax documents there too http://rotaxaircraft.com/ This is what i like -- I posted a video from youtube right into the message forum and you can watch it there. http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30 Anyhow -- going flying -- muddin - have a blast !! -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235624#235624 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:53 AM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: Kitfox-List: Torque values NSI Deke, I went out and measured my bolts and looked at the NSI manual. The bolts on mine are AN5-7a's and the torque value is 100 inch-pounds. Mike Logan Series 5 NSI Subaru converted by RAM -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:14 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Torque values Yup, Lynn, it's a metal cockpit adjustable prop hub by NSI (CAP). The blades are all carbon fiber by Warp Drive. The bolts go through the crank hub and into the prop hub about an inch deep then the bolt heads are all safety wired on the engine side of the crank hub. Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:13 PM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Torque values > > Hey, Deke, is it a metal prop? Or does it have a metal hub? The numbers > on those are a lot less critical (I would think) than if the bolts are > going to be "crushing" wood. Also, I noticed that you said you have > AN5-10 bolts....I can't believe the "-10" part. This would make the bolts > too short to go through almost anything, so I'm assuming that's a > typo...is it? I'm thinking that if they're that short, they're only going > through metal, so the range is probably not as critical as a wood > application. > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 616.5 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On Mar 21, 2009, at 7:34 AM, fox5flyer wrote: > >> >> Thanks, Lynn, et al. I'm surprised how hard it's been to get good hard >> data on these torque values. AC43.13 has some info--and good stuff too, >> but it doesn't go deep enough and seems to assume we all know about >> interference drag, etc. I called a local IA who couldn't definitively >> answer the question either, other than to say that he usually just picks >> a value somewhere in the middle of the spread. He also said he rarely >> bothers with a torque wrench and just goes by feel, depending on what >> he's doing. After wrenching on airplanes for 30 years, he probably has >> that "feel", but I don't trust mine. He also said that the torque >> values are only a guide and that "close is good enough" in most cases. >> I tend to agree with him for the most part, but not with my prop! I >> want that puppy exactly like it's supposed to be. :-) So, unless I >> can find some more information on this I'm not going to worry too much >> about it. >> Deke Morisse >> Mikado Michigan >> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT >> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but >> progress." >> - Joseph Joubert >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:29 AM PST US From: "Michael Logan" Subject: Kitfox-List: TR-3 Nice looking TR-3 in the background there Dick. My dad had one when I was growing up. Mike Logan _____ From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631@aol.com Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rudder trim tab James, This is the way I did it. Just a small aluminum plate I attached with 4 #6 or #4 screws (can't remember which) so that I could remove it or increase the tab size if I needed to. I had to adjust the bend a couple of times but now it is spot on (as the British would say). I have a picture from my files albeit not very good. Dick Maddux Fox 4 Pensacola,Fl _____ Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:28 AM PST US From: "Lowell Fitt" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab Mike, I checked my picture files and found nothing. Dick Maddox's picture is about like mine and in the same location. It is aluminum and likely .025. Lowell ----- Original Message ----- From: "WurlyBird" Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:23 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab > > > Lowell, what size tab did you use and what were it's dimensions? What is > it made of? Have any pictures you could send me? > > Thanks a lot > > James > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop > 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235570#235570 > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:04 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: leaking fuel inside the wing From: "WurlyBird" They are fiberglass tanks, 2 x 6 gal. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that replacing them is the thing to do, especially since the new tanks are ethanol resistant so that opens up more fueling options. My primary concern is the fabric repair that will accompany the tank replacement. Will I still need to take off the wings? Am I just better off getting an A&P to do it? I don't really feel like purchasing all the stuff to start spraying paint right now, especially not if I have to dish out about a grand for new tanks. -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235645#235645 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:33 AM PST US From: paul wilson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab I saw a simple fix. It was a small triangular piece glued to the rudder. Easy to change and fine tune. No drilling etc. It appeared to be white plastic. I wonder if it lasted? Paul ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:43 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Rudder trim tab Here's how I did mine, James. Take the aluminum plate and "forge" it over a scrap piece of tubing or a 3/8" extension, and you'll be able to get the pop rivets into 2 different rows around the trailing edge tubing of the rudder. This will allow for a MUCH stronger attachment than if you just ran a straight row of rivets. If you don't...and you do much altering of the tab.....you'll run the risk of bending the rivets and the tab will become loose. I attached mine with aluminum rivets so I could drill the out if I decided on another method. My aluminum rivets haven't loosened in the 500 or so hours since I installed it. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Mar 21, 2009, at 7:24 PM, WurlyBird wrote: > > > I am wondering if anybody has made a rudder trim tab and would like > to share how they did it? I know it will only be really accurate > at one airspeed and I am okay with that since I spend a lot more > time at "cruise" then throttled back for a landing. > > I assume it is as simple as riveting a sheet of steel or aluminum > to the rudder and then just experimenting with it's deflection. > Any input? > > Did I mention I soloed the Kitfox today? I mean on this thread of > course. :D > > -------- > James > Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop > 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235554#235554 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:22 AM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab I made my rudder trim a cockpit adjustable one and am happy with it. If anyone wants more info on how it is made, just e-mail me on or off list. Ron rliebmann@comcast.net From: "paul wilson" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:51 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab > > I saw a simple fix. It was a small triangular piece glued to the rudder. > Easy to change and fine tune. No drilling etc. It appeared to be white > plastic. > I wonder if it lasted? > Paul > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:16 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Rudder trim tab Hi Ron- The question is, how are you gonna fly your giant RC model now that you borrowed those control horns from it? : ) Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying do not archive On Mar 22, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Ron Liebmann wrote: > I made my rudder trim a cockpit adjustable one and am happy with > it. If anyone wants more info on how it is made, just e-mail me on > or off list. > > Ron rliebmann@comcast.net > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:36 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Torque values NSI Hi, Mike. Thanks for the input. I just checked my bolts again and I was wrong. They're actually AN5-11A, not -10A. The bolts I have are the ones that came with the FWF package. My manual doesn't give a bolt size that I can find, but it does clearly say to torque to 150 in lbs. Again, I checked the chart I have and it says 180-220, but there are so many variables to torque values that when using charts it's almost an estimate. Then I checked for torque values using Google and that's when my head really began to spin. Too many variables, like crow foot, oiled bolt, dry bolt, zinc plate, no plating, tensile strength of bolt, strength of nut, etc. It just goes on and on. Fortunately I have the NSI numbers or I'd end up not sure at all what to use. Anyway, I'll be using 150 in lbs, not only because it's what my manual says to use, but it also sounds reasonable to me. Actually, my question was what to use when there is no manufacturer number and the chart says 180-220 in lbs. Never really got an answer to that, but I'll let it go. Thanks again, Deke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Logan" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Torque values NSI > > Deke, > > I went out and measured my bolts and looked at the NSI manual. The bolts > on > mine are AN5-7a's and the torque value is 100 inch-pounds. > > Mike Logan > Series 5 NSI Subaru converted by RAM ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:16 PM PST US From: Guy Buchanan Subject: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4 All, A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4 wings. Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the decalage the same between the 3 and 4? Thanks, Guy Buchanan San Diego, CA K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:37 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4 He will have to change the false rib that is part of the fuselage where the wing meets up with it. This is because the ribs are different. Its an easy thing to change. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4 > > All, > A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4 wings. > Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the decalage the > same between the 3 and 4? > > Thanks, > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:52 PM PST US From: "Ron Liebmann" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4 He will have to change the false rib that is part of the fuselage where the wing meets up with it. This is because the ribs are different. Its an easy thing to change. Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Buchanan" Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Replacing 3 wings with 4 > > All, > A friend at the airport wants to replace his 3 wings with 4 wings. > Does anyone have any direct experience with doing so? Is the decalage the > same between the 3 and 4? > > Thanks, > > > Guy Buchanan > San Diego, CA > K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil Fitting From: Kitfoxkirk Hello Kitfoxers, Does anybody have a part number for an oil fitting that screws into the oil intake side (oil pump inlet) of the Rotax 912, and the other thread end goes to an Earl's fitting? I have one from an auto parts store that claims it is 37 degrees (aviation) as opposed to the 40 degree automotive. Mine leaks and I think the fitting on the engine is not the same angle as the Earl's fittings. Thanks, Kirk Martenson Classic IV Speedster ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:01:34 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re-applying Kreem From: Kitfoxkirk Hello Kitfoxers again, I think I am going to re-slosh my fuel tanks. Does anybody have a procedure for this? The Kreem website is not specific to fiberglass tanks. They say to leave acetone in a steel tank for 24 hours to dissolve old Kreem, then re-coat with new Kreem. I think 24 hours would destroy a fiberglass tank. Also, where does one get a gas cap that can be used in the sloshing process? The reason I am going to re-slosh with new Kreem is that my Rotax 912 has been rough running for 5 years now. For the last 14 months, the entire plane was down with LEAF in southern WI. They tried everything to get this engine running smooth. Eric Tucker himself looked at this engine several times and he is stumped. I got the plane back, and started thinking of all the logical things that this could be. Then I remembered seeing a black mist like deposit on the inside of the intake manifold. LEAF said that it was just from running auto gas and that auto gas is not as clean as av-gas. But, when I asked some other Rotax service guy, he said that there should be nothing but clean gas in the intake manifold. So, I googled the subject, and on a boating website it stated that ethanol mixed with fiberglass fuel tanks can produce a black misty like tar under the carb, and that you cannot see the black mist in a fuel sample, nor will the filter stop it. Hence, I am going to re-slosh my tanks. I only use non-ethanol premium autogas, but you never know what you are getting from the gas station. Has anyone else seen any black mist-like deposits inside there intake manifold? Thanks, Kirk Martenson Classic IV Speedster ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: leaking fuel inside the wing From: "WurlyBird" I checked out the Wingtank.com site and I like what I see. But I as well would like to hear some first hand experiences. It claims that the tanks are installed inside the existing tanks but it the installation photos it shows the tanks being installed in just the wing. I fear it sounds to good to be true. Any one used these yet? -------- James Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop 4 hrs of instruction and climbing (I solo tomorrow) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235749#235749 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.