Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:31 AM - Re: Door Strut Kit (815TL)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: 912 charing problem. (Catz631@aol.com)
3. 08:34 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (Kfyellowbird@cs.com)
4. 09:38 AM - Re: Door Strut Kit (akflyer)
5. 09:39 AM - Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (akflyer)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: leaking fuel inside the wing (fox5flyer)
7. 11:20 AM - Local CFI? (815TL)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: Local CFI? (Aerobatics@aol.com)
9. 11:33 AM - Re: Local CFI? (Aerobatics@aol.com)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: Local CFI? (815TL)
11. 12:49 PM - Wing Strut Fairings (Cudnohufsky's)
12. 02:02 PM - Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
13. 02:06 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Lynn Matteson)
14. 02:12 PM - Re: 912 charing problem. (Pete Christensen)
15. 02:28 PM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Bob Brennan)
16. 02:38 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (skyflyte@comcast.net)
17. 02:51 PM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
18. 03:06 PM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Bob Brennan)
19. 03:35 PM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
20. 03:42 PM - Re: Wing Strut Fairings (Tom Jones)
21. 05:49 PM - Re: 912 charing problem. (Pete Christensen)
22. 08:17 PM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Weiss Richard)
23. 09:25 PM - Re: Local CFI? (CDE2fly@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Door Strut Kit |
Bryan,
if you need any other pictures or measurements, let me know. I have them on my
model II as well.
Andrew
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236338#236338
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 912 charing problem. |
Pete, This probably won't work but it is cheap to try. I was having an
overvoltage problem with mine so I removed the voltage regulator and cleaned all
the
connections. I did have a small amount of corrosion. That did it and it is
working fine now.
Also, I think some of the guys are using voltage regulators other than the
original Ducatti units. I think they are cheaper and if they work OK I would be
interested myself .
Dick Maddux
Fox4
912
Pensacola,Fl
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
James
I had a similar problem with a leak inside the wing with fuel running out
the trailing edge. Discover it was leaking from the lower site gauge fitting.
Removed fitting, applied some plumbers thread sealer. ( find sealer that is
resistant to petroleum products) End of leak.
Lowell Schaper
Kitfox Lite2 912S
Installing Groves gear
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Door Strut Kit |
http://avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?topic=252.0
Shows the struts in place.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236364#236364
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
Fuel Lube is made just for sealing the fittings on fuel systems. Works great and
does not get hard over time.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236365#236365
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: leaking fuel inside the wing |
Where do you find Fuel Lube anymore? I bought a tube of EZ Seal (or Lube,
can't remember which) from ACC. Comes in a pretty big tube that will last
about 4 lifetimes.
Great stuff and exactly like Fuel Lube.
Deke
Please archive
>
> Fuel Lube is made just for sealing the fittings on fuel systems. Works
> great and does not get hard over time.
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Message 7
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Anyone know of a good CFI within 50 miles of Elmira NY? My CFI is not working
out so good. He took a new second shift job, which limits his time. Mostly though,
he is unavailable whenever I am available. He has canceled on me several
times. I have set several whole days aside only to have him tell me he can't
make it just before we are to meet up. So it ruins the whole day, when I could
have been doing other things. I have flown all of 3 hours in the last 5
weeks, and that was all in one day.
My airport has a good CFI with lots of hours, but only about 30 hours in trailwheel.
Larry Huntly flew my plane with him, and was not impressed with his landings.
I don't mind flying with him, but I want to get some more landings under
my belt first.
Larry reccomeded someone, but he may be a little far away. Anyone know a CFI,
that I could get 10-15 hours with?
Andrew
815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582 C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236402#236402
Message 8
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I might be able to help you I have about 1,000 tailwheel and 450 in a
KF2...
Dave
In a message dated 3/27/2009 1:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lawrenceaw@corning.com writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Anyone know of a good CFI within 50 miles of Elmira NY? My CFI is not
working out so good. He took a new second shift job, which limits his time.
Mostly though, he is unavailable whenever I am available. He has canceled on
me
several times. I have set several whole days aside only to have him tell me
he can't make it just before we are to meet up. So it ruins the whole day,
when I could have been doing other things. I have flown all of 3 hours in
the last 5 weeks, and that was all in one day.
My airport has a good CFI with lots of hours, but only about 30 hours in
trailwheel. Larry Huntly flew my plane with him, and was not impressed with his
landings. I don't mind flying with him, but I want to get some more
landings under my belt first.
Larry reccomeded someone, but he may be a little far away. Anyone know a
CFI, that I could get 10-15 hours with?
Andrew
815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582 C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236402#236402
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under
$10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000002)
Message 9
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In a message dated 3/27/2009 1:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
lawrenceaw@corning.com writes:
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL" <lawrenceaw@corning.com>
Anyone know of a good CFI within 50 miles of Elmira NY? My CFI is not
working out so good. He took a new second shift job, which limits his time.
Mostly though, he is unavailable whenever I am available. He has canceled on
me
several times. I have set several whole days aside only to have him tell me
he can't make it just before we are to meet up. So it ruins the whole day,
when I could have been doing other things. I have flown all of 3 hours in
the last 5 weeks, and that was all in one day.
My airport has a good CFI with lots of hours, but only about 30 hours in
trailwheel. Larry Huntly flew my plane with him, and was not impressed with his
landings. I don't mind flying with him, but I want to get some more
landings under my belt first.
Larry reccomeded someone, but he may be a little far away. Anyone know a
CFI, that I could get 10-15 hours with?
Andrew
815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582 C
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236402#236402
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under
$10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000002)
Message 10
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Dave,
That would be great! Where abouts are you located?
Andrew
[quote="Aerobatics(at)aol.com"]I might be able to help you I have about 1,000
tailwheel and 450 in a KF2...
Dave
In a message dated 3/27/2009 1:21:30 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lawrenceaw@corning.com
writes:
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "815TL"
>
> Anyone know of a good CFI within 50 miles of Elmira NY? My CFI is not working
out so good. He took a new second shift job, which limits his time.
Mostly though, he is unavailable whenever I am available. He has canceled
on me several times. I have set several whole days aside only to have him
tell me he can't make it just before we are to meet up. So it ruins the whole
day, when I could have been doing other things. I have flown all of 3
hours in the last 5 weeks, and that was all in one day.
>
> My airport has a good CFI with lots of hours, but only about 30 hours in trailwheel.
Larry Huntly flew my plane with him, and was not impressed with
his landings.? I don't mind flying with him, but I want to get some more landings
under my belt first.
>
> Larry reccomeded someone, but he may be a little far away. Anyone know a
CFI, that I could get 10-15 hours with?
>
> Andrew
> 815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582 C
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236402#236402
>
>
>
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for under $10 (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000002).
> [b]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236411#236411
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wing Strut Fairings |
All,
The wing struts for my Model 5 have the PVC fairings, the end that attaches
to the fuselage has the aft fairing squared off and covered with fabric and
then the gap between them covered with sheet aluminum. I decided I wanted to
block out all the extrusion lines in the PVC fairings so I removed the
fabric and the aluminum and found all the gaps in that area filled with
bondo, which I have removed. Is the bondo thing normal? I do not have the
instructions for the install of the struts so I was wondering what others
have done and what others have seen for a finished weight for a strut with
the PVC fairings? What have other used for fairings besides the PVC?
Lloyd C
UP Mi.
Mod 5 912ul
IVO IFA
Checked by AVG.
8:05 PM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so that
may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across the
runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation point,
and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy 'port,
so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took off
maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
plane.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
I have a Model IV, with the same fairings that you describe, but I
left the "extrusion lines" as is, covered them, and the sheet
aluminum at the lower end, with fabric and let it go at that.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 27, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Cudnohufsky's wrote:
> <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
> All,
> The wing struts for my Model 5 have the PVC fairings, the end that
> attaches
> to the fuselage has the aft fairing squared off and covered with
> fabric and
> then the gap between them covered with sheet aluminum. I decided I
> wanted to
> block out all the extrusion lines in the PVC fairings so I removed the
> fabric and the aluminum and found all the gaps in that area filled
> with
> bondo, which I have removed. Is the bondo thing normal? I do not
> have the
> instructions for the install of the struts so I was wondering what
> others
> have done and what others have seen for a finished weight for a
> strut with
> the PVC fairings? What have other used for fairings besides the PVC?
>
> Lloyd C
> UP Mi.
> Mod 5 912ul
> IVO IFA
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 8:05 PM
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 912 charing problem. |
Can someone please elaborate on "...some of the guys are using voltage
regulators other than the original Ducatti units."
Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 charing problem.
Pete, This probably won't work but it is cheap to try. I was having an
overvoltage problem with mine so I removed the voltage regulator and
cleaned all the connections. I did have a small amount of corrosion.
That did it and it is working fine now.
Also, I think some of the guys are using voltage regulators other
than the original Ducatti units. I think they are cheaper and if they
work OK I would be interested myself .
Dick Maddux
Fox4
912
Pensacola,Fl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
In case you hadn't calculated it out Lynn - with the wind at 13 knots
straight down the runway his wake turbulence was moving towards you at 1,316
feet per minute, so in that "long minute" the distance between your take-off
roll and his put you right where his turbulence was. I'm open to discussion
here but I think that if you took off immediately after him you would have
been fine, or more than 2 or 3 minutes after when the turbulence had blown
past the end of the runway where you were waiting.
Does that make sense? (sanity check) And also no way I would have thought of
that in the cockpit rather than in front of the 'puter, but I will from now
on!
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 27 March 2009 5:00 pm
Subject: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so that
may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across the
runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation point,
and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy 'port,
so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took off
maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
plane.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
Those "extrusion lines" are actually vortex generators which were=C2- par
t of the design to reduce drag.=C2- Eliminating them increases DRAG!!
=C2-=C2- Mike
=C2-=C2- 490MC
=C2-=C2- M II=C2-=C2- 582
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Matteson" <lynnmatt@jps.net>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 5:05:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wing Strut Fairings
I have a Model IV, with the same fairings that you describe, but I =C2-
left the "extrusion lines" as is, covered them, and the sheet =C2-
aluminum at the lower end, with fabric and let it go at that.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 27, 2009, at 3:44 PM, Cudnohufsky's wrote:
> <7suds@chartermi.net>
>
> =C2-All,
> The wing struts for my Model 5 have the PVC fairings, the end that =C2-
> attaches
> to the fuselage has the aft fairing squared off and covered with =C2-
> fabric and
> then the gap between them covered with sheet aluminum. I decided I =C2-
> wanted to
> block out all the extrusion lines in the PVC fairings so I removed the
> fabric and the aluminum and found all the gaps in that area filled =C2-
> with
> bondo, which I have removed. Is the bondo thing normal? I do not =C2-
> have the
> instructions for the install of the struts so I was wondering what =C2-
> others
> have done and what others have seen for a finished weight for a =C2-
> strut with
> the PVC fairings? =C2-What have other used for fairings besides the PVC
?
>
> Lloyd C
> UP Mi.
> Mod 5 912ul
> IVO IFA
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 8:05 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
MS -
===========
e -
=C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin.
===========
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
That makes sense to me, Bob, so that means it must be wrong. : )
Seriously, it sounds like it would do as you describe. I'd like to
hear what others think, also. The clockwise rotation of the
turbulence from the left wing would do to me just what I felt it do.
On the ground while waiting, I couldn't remember which direction the
turbulence rotates, but I found out later that it is clockwise
viewing from the rear of the lead aircraft on the left wing, and
counter-clockwise from the right wing. Because my right wing lifted,
I figured I ran into his clockwise-rotating turbulence coming from
his left wing...he was using the right side of the runway, and I was
using the left side.
All the diagrams that I have seen say to land beyond his touchdown
point, or lift off before his rotation point, which is what I did,
but I guess I didn't wait long enough.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 27, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> In case you hadn't calculated it out Lynn - with the wind at 13 knots
> straight down the runway his wake turbulence was moving towards you
> at 1,316
> feet per minute, so in that "long minute" the distance between your
> take-off
> roll and his put you right where his turbulence was. I'm open to
> discussion
> here but I think that if you took off immediately after him you
> would have
> been fine, or more than 2 or 3 minutes after when the turbulence
> had blown
> past the end of the runway where you were waiting.
>
> Does that make sense? (sanity check) And also no way I would have
> thought of
> that in the cockpit rather than in front of the 'puter, but I will
> from now
> on!
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:00 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>
>
> I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
> KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so that
> may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
> ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across the
> runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
> take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
> and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
> the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
> until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
> After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
> take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation point,
> and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
> pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
> could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
> rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
> The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
> roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
> but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
> Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy 'port,
> so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took off
> maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
> time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
> wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
> the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
> not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
> plane.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
All my book learnin' said the same thing to me - "land beyond his touchdown
point, and lift off before his rotation point", but his rotation point is
relative to the runway, while his turbulence will be relative to the air
mass which in this case was moving down the runway towards you. Turbulence
can't sit at a fixed point on a runway, it is a rotation *of* the air mass
at the point the plane took off. If that air mass moves, so does the
turbulence. I think...
Think raindrop in a lake - a radiating pattern of turbulance. Now think
raindrop in a fast-moving stream, does the pattern travel with the water or
stay exactly where the drop hit relative to the earth?
That should be in the AIM someplace...
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: 27 March 2009 5:51 pm
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
That makes sense to me, Bob, so that means it must be wrong. : )
Seriously, it sounds like it would do as you describe. I'd like to
hear what others think, also. The clockwise rotation of the
turbulence from the left wing would do to me just what I felt it do.
On the ground while waiting, I couldn't remember which direction the
turbulence rotates, but I found out later that it is clockwise
viewing from the rear of the lead aircraft on the left wing, and
counter-clockwise from the right wing. Because my right wing lifted,
I figured I ran into his clockwise-rotating turbulence coming from
his left wing...he was using the right side of the runway, and I was
using the left side.
All the diagrams that I have seen say to land beyond his touchdown
point, or lift off before his rotation point, which is what I did,
but I guess I didn't wait long enough.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 27, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> In case you hadn't calculated it out Lynn - with the wind at 13 knots
> straight down the runway his wake turbulence was moving towards you
> at 1,316
> feet per minute, so in that "long minute" the distance between your
> take-off
> roll and his put you right where his turbulence was. I'm open to
> discussion
> here but I think that if you took off immediately after him you
> would have
> been fine, or more than 2 or 3 minutes after when the turbulence
> had blown
> past the end of the runway where you were waiting.
>
> Does that make sense? (sanity check) And also no way I would have
> thought of
> that in the cockpit rather than in front of the 'puter, but I will
> from now
> on!
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:00 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>
>
> I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
> KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so that
> may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
> ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across the
> runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
> take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
> and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
> the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
> until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
> After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
> take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation point,
> and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
> pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
> could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
> rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
> The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
> roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
> but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
> Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy 'port,
> so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took off
> maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
> time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
> wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
> the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
> not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
> plane.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
I recall reading that if the wind is blowing from left to right,
across the runway, that turbulence might just come from runway xxL to
runway xxR, and bite you if you are on the right-side runway, so if
it's coming down the runway...the wind, that is...it stands to reason
that it will bite you if you are both on the same runway. Just
another case of needing to stay current on ALL phases of flying,
which I try to do. I just hadn't brushed up on my turbulence factors
in a while....I will now!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 27, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>
> All my book learnin' said the same thing to me - "land beyond his
> touchdown
> point, and lift off before his rotation point", but his rotation
> point is
> relative to the runway, while his turbulence will be relative to
> the air
> mass which in this case was moving down the runway towards you.
> Turbulence
> can't sit at a fixed point on a runway, it is a rotation *of* the
> air mass
> at the point the plane took off. If that air mass moves, so does the
> turbulence. I think...
>
> Think raindrop in a lake - a radiating pattern of turbulance. Now
> think
> raindrop in a fast-moving stream, does the pattern travel with the
> water or
> stay exactly where the drop hit relative to the earth?
>
> That should be in the AIM someplace...
>
> Bob Brennan - N717GB
> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
> Wrightsville Pa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:51 pm
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>
>
> That makes sense to me, Bob, so that means it must be wrong. : )
> Seriously, it sounds like it would do as you describe. I'd like to
> hear what others think, also. The clockwise rotation of the
> turbulence from the left wing would do to me just what I felt it do.
> On the ground while waiting, I couldn't remember which direction the
> turbulence rotates, but I found out later that it is clockwise
> viewing from the rear of the lead aircraft on the left wing, and
> counter-clockwise from the right wing. Because my right wing lifted,
> I figured I ran into his clockwise-rotating turbulence coming from
> his left wing...he was using the right side of the runway, and I was
> using the left side.
> All the diagrams that I have seen say to land beyond his touchdown
> point, or lift off before his rotation point, which is what I did,
> but I guess I didn't wait long enough.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>>
>> In case you hadn't calculated it out Lynn - with the wind at 13 knots
>> straight down the runway his wake turbulence was moving towards you
>> at 1,316
>> feet per minute, so in that "long minute" the distance between your
>> take-off
>> roll and his put you right where his turbulence was. I'm open to
>> discussion
>> here but I think that if you took off immediately after him you
>> would have
>> been fine, or more than 2 or 3 minutes after when the turbulence
>> had blown
>> past the end of the runway where you were waiting.
>>
>> Does that make sense? (sanity check) And also no way I would have
>> thought of
>> that in the cockpit rather than in front of the 'puter, but I will
>> from now
>> on!
>>
>> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>> Wrightsville Pa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:00 pm
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>>
>>
>> I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
>> KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so that
>> may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
>> ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across the
>> runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
>> take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
>> and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
>> the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
>> until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
>> After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
>> take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation point,
>> and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
>> pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
>> could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
>> rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
>> The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
>> roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
>> but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
>> Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy 'port,
>> so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took off
>> maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
>> time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
>> wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
>> the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
>> not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
>> plane.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Status: flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing Strut Fairings |
7suds(at)Chartermi.net wrote:
> All,
> The wing struts for my Model 5 have the PVC fairings, the end that attaches
> to the fuselage has the aft fairing squared off and covered with fabric and
> then the gap between them covered with sheet aluminum. I decided I wanted to
> block out all the extrusion lines in the PVC fairings so I removed the
> fabric and the aluminum and found all the gaps in that area filled with
> bondo, which I have removed. Is the bondo thing normal? I do not have the
> instructions for the install of the struts so I was wondering what others
> have done and what others have seen for a finished weight for a strut with
> the PVC fairings? What have other used for fairings besides the PVC?
>
> Lloyd C
> UP Mi.
> Mod 5 912ul
> IVO IFA
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 8:05 PM
LLoyd, I talked with The Kitfox folks at the Arlington Wash. fly in last summer
before I bought my PVC strut fairing. They suggested using hysol (structrual
epoxy) to fill the gaps and finish the trailing edges on the fuselage end of
the fairing where they are cut. The aluminum cuff is the option they sell to
cover the fuselage end. The hysol provides a sturdy base to rivet into along
the trailing edge of the aluminum cuff.
The demonstrator kitfox there had the extrusion lines smoothed out. I think Debra
said she had installed those and had sanded the lines off before painting
the fairing.
Wood fairing covered with fabric is used also. It is a little lighter but a lot
more work than the PVC.
I installed the PVC fairing according to their suggestions. I mixed cotton flox
with the hysol so it is very hard when set up. I weighed before and after.
Gained 12.5 pounds. I can't tell any difference in climb rate and gained about
8 MPH cruise speed with my little 52 horse engine. 84 mph true airspeed at
5800 RPM now.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236457#236457
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: 912 charing problem. |
My research found some writings by Peter Sherman regarding using Honda
Motorcycle rectifier/regulators from the Honda CB250/400 or CX500 in his
Ducati mc.
Look here: http://www.geocities.com/750paso/paso/voltageregulator.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Catz631@aol.com
To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: 912 charing problem.
Pete, This probably won't work but it is cheap to try. I was having an
overvoltage problem with mine so I removed the voltage regulator and
cleaned all the connections. I did have a small amount of corrosion.
That did it and it is working fine now.
Also, I think some of the guys are using voltage regulators other
than the original Ducatti units. I think they are cheaper and if they
work OK I would be interested myself .
Dick Maddux
Fox4
912
Pensacola,Fl
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less.
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
Lynn,
I'm no expert on wake turbulence, but I've been there. It's real,
it's dangerous, and should be given a wide berth. I've been rolled 90
degrees while on approach. This was from a 747 - I was in a CRJ-200.
We were going into JFK and were 6 miles behind the 74 at 3000 feet, he
was at 4000. The roll was quick and exhilarating. I know the
passengers didn't like it, heck, we didn't like it! We also had a
similar, but less exciting, experience at Atlanta behind a 757.
Bottom line, we were at the legal distance behind the other aircraft
and still had the encounter.
Remember, the winds aloft are frequently different than those on the
surface, all the calculations on the location of the wake based on the
ground winds are estimates and remain suspect. The best defense is
to wait out the max time, especially in low wind conditions where the
wake can linger (yes, I believe it can be stationary on the runway for
quite a while) or be blown across the runway at a leisurely pace. I
wouldn't go early unless you're absolutely convinced you know the wind
environment.
If the other guys get impatient, that's their problem. Clearing
debris off the runway, i.e. the remaining parts of your Fox, is a lot
longer delay for them and will likely ruin your day. If they want to
go, let them. You may have the basis for some good hangar stories as
you watch the ensuing aerobatic show.
Just my two cents.
Rick Weiss
N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS
SkyStar S/N 1
Port Orange, FL
On Mar 27, 2009, at 6:31 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
> I recall reading that if the wind is blowing from left to right,
> across the runway, that turbulence might just come from runway xxL
> to runway xxR, and bite you if you are on the right-side runway, so
> if it's coming down the runway...the wind, that is...it stands to
> reason that it will bite you if you are both on the same runway.
> Just another case of needing to stay current on ALL phases of
> flying, which I try to do. I just hadn't brushed up on my turbulence
> factors in a while....I will now!
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
>
> On Mar 27, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> All my book learnin' said the same thing to me - "land beyond his
>> touchdown
>> point, and lift off before his rotation point", but his rotation
>> point is
>> relative to the runway, while his turbulence will be relative to
>> the air
>> mass which in this case was moving down the runway towards you.
>> Turbulence
>> can't sit at a fixed point on a runway, it is a rotation *of* the
>> air mass
>> at the point the plane took off. If that air mass moves, so does the
>> turbulence. I think...
>>
>> Think raindrop in a lake - a radiating pattern of turbulance. Now
>> think
>> raindrop in a fast-moving stream, does the pattern travel with the
>> water or
>> stay exactly where the drop hit relative to the earth?
>>
>> That should be in the AIM someplace...
>>
>> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>> Wrightsville Pa
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>> Matteson
>> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:51 pm
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>>
>>
>> That makes sense to me, Bob, so that means it must be wrong. : )
>> Seriously, it sounds like it would do as you describe. I'd like to
>> hear what others think, also. The clockwise rotation of the
>> turbulence from the left wing would do to me just what I felt it do.
>> On the ground while waiting, I couldn't remember which direction the
>> turbulence rotates, but I found out later that it is clockwise
>> viewing from the rear of the lead aircraft on the left wing, and
>> counter-clockwise from the right wing. Because my right wing lifted,
>> I figured I ran into his clockwise-rotating turbulence coming from
>> his left wing...he was using the right side of the runway, and I was
>> using the left side.
>> All the diagrams that I have seen say to land beyond his touchdown
>> point, or lift off before his rotation point, which is what I did,
>> but I guess I didn't wait long enough.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
>> Sensenich 62x46
>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>> Status: flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 27, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:
>>
>>> <matronics@bob.brennan.name>
>>>
>>> In case you hadn't calculated it out Lynn - with the wind at 13
>>> knots
>>> straight down the runway his wake turbulence was moving towards you
>>> at 1,316
>>> feet per minute, so in that "long minute" the distance between your
>>> take-off
>>> roll and his put you right where his turbulence was. I'm open to
>>> discussion
>>> here but I think that if you took off immediately after him you
>>> would have
>>> been fine, or more than 2 or 3 minutes after when the turbulence
>>> had blown
>>> past the end of the runway where you were waiting.
>>>
>>> Does that make sense? (sanity check) And also no way I would have
>>> thought of
>>> that in the cockpit rather than in front of the 'puter, but I will
>>> from now
>>> on!
>>>
>>> Bob Brennan - N717GB
>>> ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
>>> 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
>>> Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
>>> Wrightsville Pa
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
>>> Matteson
>>> Sent: 27 March 2009 5:00 pm
>>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox
>>>
>>>
>>> I had my first encounter with wake turbulence today. I had landed at
>>> KPTK (Pontiac, Mich...class D airspace, with customs service, so
>>> that
>>> may give an idea of its' busy-ness) and after a brief stay on the
>>> ground, I taxied to hold short of 27L for takeoff, staring across
>>> the
>>> runway into the intakes of a small twin-engine jet that was next to
>>> take off on this runway. The tower gave him the takeoff clearance,
>>> and away he went. I then got the tower clearance for me to go with
>>> the warning that I might encounter wake turbulence, and I could wait
>>> until I was comfortable to go...but "take all the time you want."
>>> After a long minute or so, I told the tower that I could probably
>>> take off, if I could climb out (way) shorter than his rotation
>>> point,
>>> and turn left when I wanted to, and got the ok to go. The wind was
>>> pretty much right down the runway, and about 13 knots, so I knew I
>>> could lift pretty good. I started out, and when aloft....very short
>>> rollout....I got a pretty good left-bank roll from his turbulence.
>>> The angle was a good 30+ degree bank, and I was really feeling the
>>> roll caused by his plane. It was pretty brief, and no *big* problem,
>>> but it really got my attention. This airport...the second largest in
>>> Michigan operations to only Detroit's class B...is a very busy
>>> 'port,
>>> so I didn't want to waste anybody's time sitting there, so I took
>>> off
>>> maybe a little too soon, but it worked out for me...this time. Next
>>> time I'll wait a bit longer and let the rest of the waiting planes
>>> wait. I had about half of a full fuel load (half of 26 gallons), and
>>> the extra weight probably helped stabilize the plane a bit, so I'm
>>> not sure that I'd want to try this procedure with a lighter-loaded
>>> plane.
>>>
>>> Lynn Matteson
>>> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>>> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 618.4 hrs
>>> Sensenich 62x46
>>> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>>> Status: flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 23
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Andrew - try Joe Rizzo based at BGM. I've flown with him and been very
satisfied.
Joe Rizzo Airport Name: Greater Binghamton Regional (added 2/24/2005
8:06:14 PM) Binghamton, New York, USA Identifier: KBGM We have a 1967 7ECA
Citabria in our flight school, established in 1981. We welcome pilots who want
to add the tailwheel endorsement or get their pilot training in a
conventional gear airplane. See our website at aero-techniques.com.
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under
$10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000002)
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