Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:02 AM - Re: - now Compass Card (dave)
2. 03:34 AM - Re: convert model 2 to tricycle gear (dave)
3. 04:29 AM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (dave)
4. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (fox5flyer)
5. 05:08 AM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (dave)
6. 05:12 AM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (dave)
7. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: was V-Speed question and placard question - now Compass Card (John W. Hart)
8. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (fox5flyer)
9. 05:51 AM - Re: Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (Lynn Matteson)
10. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: Near disaster (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
11. 06:33 AM - Re: Re: Near disaster (Lynn Matteson)
12. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (teresa, paul morel)
13. 07:27 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Lynn Matteson)
14. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
15. 07:43 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
16. 07:43 AM - Compass errors (fox5flyer)
17. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
18. 08:03 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
19. 08:05 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
20. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Noel Loveys)
21. 08:41 AM - Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox (dave)
22. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Guy Buchanan)
23. 10:38 AM - dang volcanos (akflyer)
24. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
25. 11:55 AM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Lynn Matteson)
26. 12:07 PM - Re: dang volcanos (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
27. 12:07 PM - Re: dang volcanos (Lynn Matteson)
28. 12:18 PM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Lynn Matteson)
29. 12:33 PM - Re: Compass errors (Lynn Matteson)
30. 04:20 PM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (teresa, paul morel)
31. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: - now Compass Card (Lynn Matteson)
32. 05:14 PM - Re: Near disaster (jdmcbean)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Compass swing, I get thousands of readers finding this on google
http://cfisher.com/compass.htm
Simple
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823
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| Subject: | Re: convert model 2 to tricycle gear |
I just converted a Kitfox 2 from a Tri-gear to a Taildragger.
It was done mainly for Ski operations. IF you are interested , I do have the gear
etc. Contact me if interested and I will make sure the owner wants to part
with it.
Some pics and Videos of it flying http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=45
Note the videos play right in the posts.
Now all this being said, It would be a fairly extensive conversion to convert to
a tri-gear from a taildragger and your plane would be less versatile than as
a taildragger.
That is my thoughts,
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236824#236824
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
Your vortices spiral out and down from your tips.
A cool experiment , in early am with light fog and no wind about 4 to 10 feet
thick , fly along a field or grass runway so you are just in the fog at cruise
or faster and yank her back. Look out your back window or turn and look
at what you just did.
That would make a neat video. Who will be first to post it ?>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236826#236826
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
> Your vortices spiral out and down from your tips.
Are you pretty sure about that? I've always seen it the opposite.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
Deke,
What I meant to say , I will make it clear
they rotate inwards but move outwards from the wingtips and down wards
I can remember during IFR training being behind a heavy in a 182 or 172 under the
hood at night and rolling past 90s degrees a few miles behind.
do you needs a pic ?
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236830#236830
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=97
pic if you not understand correctly
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236831#236831
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: was V-Speed question and placard question - now Compass |
Card
Except on a full overcast night, no DG, or other means of determining
directions. I've been in that situation more times than I like to remember
with only a magnetic compass to determine direction, and in mountainous
terrain at that.
John Hart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:34 AM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: was V-Speed question and placard question -
now Compass Card
I was trying to get at two things... First of all most compass swings are
not done anywhere near a compass rose. They are expensive and time
consuming to do and even when done correctly parallax errors can throw
everything off. There fore corrections are estimated by which way the wind
was blowing the day the correction card was filled out.
The second thing I was getting at is the magnetic compass is the last
instrument used in IFR and other than to hold a heading isn't used in VFR.
It may come in handy to designate grass runways. I think most pilots would
be just as happy without it. Perhaps out on the prairies it may get more
use but any where clear land marks can be seen it is just so much more to
carry aloft.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jones
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: was V-Speed question and placard question - now
Compass Card
I do the same as you Noel. The only time times I did the full heading plot
was for my cross countries when I was a student and for my check ride he had
me do one while we were in the air.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236747#236747
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
Nope.
>
> do you needs a pic ?
>
>
> Dave
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
"Whenever an airplane generates lift, air spills over the wingtips
from the high pressure areas below the wings to the low pressure
areas above them."
(Private Pilot Manual....Jeppersen/Sanderson)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:46 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
>> Your vortices spiral out and down from your tips.
>
> Are you pretty sure about that? I've always seen it the opposite.
>
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
After I had the problem with my plugged filter=2C I got rid of the filters
that were before the header tank. I then mounted another filter in paralle
l with the other one under the instrument panel. I put in another valve th
at I could close off the second filter with. I allways opened the valve fo
r takeoff and would close it once I got above 500' or so. My thinking was
I then had a backup filter if the engine started to spit and miss from a pl
ugged filter. Jim Chuk Avids=2C Kitfox 4 Mn
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
> From: gerns25@netscape.net
> Date: Sun=2C 29 Mar 2009 20:16:53 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I agree with Deke...there is no need for filters before the header tank.
When I say I have 3 filters=2C I am including my finger strainers as one. I
have an Earl's filter before the pumps and a final filter forward of the f
irewall just before it goes into the pressure regulator. Had my final filte
r not been there=2C all that disintegrated hose material would have ended u
p in my pressure regulator and carbs so it did serve a purpose. After chang
ing the hose=2C it is probably overkill to have the last filter but it is t
here.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville=2C Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236799#236799
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
Just to throw in some more fodder for debate, I have 2 finger
strainers (one in each tank), and three filters....one in each
downline from the tank and before the header, and one after the
header. These filters are the Purolator glass filters in the 5/16"
fuel line size and since the first application of fuel into the
Kreemed fuel tanks, I haven't seen any crap in these filters. Maybe
that means I don't need all these filters, but I'm not taking them
out. My engine runs on gravity feed only. I have removed all the
pumps (engine mechanical, and back-up electric) because the location
of my carburetor is at a position where gravity alone feeds all the
fuel necessary. The reason I like the filters in the down lines, is
so that if I get a bad batch of fuel, or dirt in the fuel I can see
it immediately...the glass filters are visible just above the top of
the back of the seat, and just below the two fuel shut-offs (for
service only). My system flows 12.3 gallons per hour if I recall
correctly. I should take another reading now that I've installed the
Northstar F210 fuel flow meter, and see what it says the flow rate
is. When I checked the flow rate before I installed the flow meter,
it was through the carb inlet. So that much fuel is getting through
the carb.
p.s. I have all "rubber" fuel lines...automotive 30R7
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 29, 2009, at 11:16 PM, darinh wrote:
>
> I agree with Deke...there is no need for filters before the header
> tank. When I say I have 3 filters, I am including my finger
> strainers as one. I have an Earl's filter before the pumps and a
> final filter forward of the firewall just before it goes into the
> pressure regulator. Had my final filter not been there, all that
> disintegrated hose material would have ended up in my pressure
> regulator and carbs so it did serve a purpose. After changing the
> hose, it is probably overkill to have the last filter but it is there.
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236799#236799
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Dave=0AI scanned through your article looking for what might be a solution
to a compass problem I'm having.=0A=0A- I have two types of compass and w
ill only be installing one of them.- I have a common whiskey compass and
a nice vertical card magnetic compass.-I really like the vertical compass
so-I made space in my panel to include the vertical compass which would
not only be functional but gives that "DG" look.- I put my panel together
with all my instruments on the bench and all the compass points were withi
n tolerance as I rotated the panel around.- (I planned to make final corr
ections once my panel was installedin the aircraft)-=0A=0A- Now the pro
blem arose when I placed the panel with all the installed instruments in th
e aircraft and the compass began to swing way out.- I'm talking around 12
0 degree difference!- After talking to some local pilots and mechanics, I
got suggestions-from moving the compass-to demagnetizing the airframe
-to changing to the whiskey and mounting it on top of the panel.=0A=0AHas
anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to correct it?
=0A=0APaul Morel=0A912 Model IV Speedster=0ALocust Grove, GA=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
________________________________=0AFrom: dave <dave@cfisher.com>=0ATo: kitf
ox-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:02:06 AM=0ASubject:
"dave" <dave@cfisher.com>=0A=0ACompass swing,- I get thousands of reader
s finding this on google=0Ahttp://cfisher.com/compass.htm=0A=0ASimple=0A=0A
--------=0ARotax Dealer, Ontario Canada=0Ahttp://www.cfisher.com/=0AAwesome
*New Forum *=0Ahttp://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/=0ARealtime Kitfox movies to
separate- the internet- chatter from the truth- =0Ahttp://www.youtub
e.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic onlin
e here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823=0A
===================
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
I mounted my vertical card compass above the glare shield/panel, and
in this location it is not affected by the airframe.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:41 AM, teresa, paul morel wrote:
> Dave
> I scanned through your article looking for what might be a solution
> to a compass problem I'm having.
>
> I have two types of compass and will only be installing one of
> them. I have a common whiskey compass and a nice vertical card
> magnetic compass. I really like the vertical compass so I made
> space in my panel to include the vertical compass which would not
> only be functional but gives that "DG" look. I put my panel
> together with all my instruments on the bench and all the compass
> points were within tolerance as I rotated the panel around. (I
> planned to make final corrections once my panel was installedin the
> aircraft)
>
> Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the
> installed instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to
> swing way out. I'm talking around 120 degree difference! After
> talking to some local pilots and mechanics, I got suggestions from
> moving the compass to demagnetizing the airframe to changing to the
> whiskey and mounting it on top of the panel.
>
> Has anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to
> correct it?
>
> Paul Morel
> 912 Model IV Speedster
> Locust Grove, GA
>
> From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:02:06 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
>
>
> Compass swing, I get thousands of readers finding this on google
> http://cfisher.com/compass.htm
>
> Simple
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the
> truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.cp; -Mcs.com/
> contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/
> contribution<============
>
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Paul:
The correct procedure for setting a compass is to turn the plane to Magnetic
North. Zero the deviation in the compass using either a brass or non
ferrous screwdriver. Engines should be turning at cruise rpm and all
avionics used in flight should be on for all adjustments/readings..
Turn the plane to magnetic 90 deg. And zero the compass deviation.
Turn the plane 180 M and remove half the deviation on the NS corrector.
Turn the plane 270M and remove half the deviation on the E-W corrector.
Now you are ready to turn the plane to magnetic north again and start
filling out the compass card.
This is the recognized procedure and using this procedure it is impossible
to get a 000 for North, as most cards show unless your plane is 100% plastic
and you use a rubber band for power.
Did I mention this is expensive?? Never mind I'll mention it again.
Because, today a lot of airports don't even bother to paint a rose any more,
so now you are supposed to also do an external line up of the aircraft with
a calibrated hand compa$$. You may as well go out with a bucket of white
paint and make a rose. It would be a lot faster.
The parallax correction I mentioned has to do with the fact the line on the
compass is on the glass several centimetres from the actual compass cage
itself. From the left seat, lean forward and you will line up a couple of
degrees higher lean back and you are going to read a couple of degrees
lower. In the old days of airliners ( pre jetliner) the cockpit had a
couple of balls for each seat which folded down from the ceiling. One set
for the pilot and one set for the co-pilot. The idea was you had to adjust
your seat so you only saw one ball then your eyes were in the exact
position, up-down and back-forth to correct for parallax on all your
instruments. I guess a degree or two is a big thing when flying
Trans-Atlantic with no Loran C and no GPS and no VOR. I'm sure the northern
routes navigated by the stars as a magnetic compass is useless up in the
high arctic.
As for having the compass police come charging down for you... Don't hold
your breath. I think they have better things to do. And flux gate compasses
on the bigger planes are only set up in alignment with the plane itself.
I'm not even sure if a compass swing is a requirement for the annual on a
homebuilt plane. It's a bit strange because even the AMOs here (Canadian
equivalent of a FBO) feel it is the most useless waste of time, money and
effort. As TC ( Transport Canada) inspectors generally come from the
private sectors you can guess their opinions on swings is the same. I don't
see any reason for things to be any different south of the 49th. Just don't
cross an FAA inspector the day his wife files for divorce, his dog dies and
he gets a flat tire on his way to work.
The hardest plane to do a swing on is a float plane. If you do the swing
while the plane is on a dolly you have introduced an error. If you want to
do it in the water you will need lots of rope because the plane wants to
move ahead with the engine running and it should be running at cruise rpm.
I've done them but I used a map of the lake and adjustments were made very
fast generally setting the magnetic compass from the gyro. It helps to
have lots of water to work with. I haven't figured out how to do it in a
tandem plane like a Super Cub... Cruise rpm would be out of the question
:-)
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Franz -
Merlin GT
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 2:38 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
I'm maybe forgetting something or just naive but that where I have done
them. On two
the compasses you had a little plastic screw to turn that would set the
indicator
perfect for north then south then east then west. You then updated the
deviations on
the compass card but they were all zero.
The other type compass had no such adjuster and you just filled out the
deviations at
each 45 deg heading change.
Then since the compass isn't stable and depending on your heading can
actually swing
the wrong direction when you start a turn, I have always used a DG as the
primary
heading indicator and set the DG to the compass with any applied deviation.
> They are expensive and time
> consuming to do and even when done correctly parallax errors can throw
> everything off.
I assume you mean they are expensive if you pay an instrument shop to do
them in order
to comply with some kind of inane rule. Maybe the compass police are
eventually going
to toss me in the clink. I'm just sort of a bad person, I guess. Some laws
just don't
seem to apply to me personally.
Now, I have a vague understanding of parallax error as it applies to a lens
but at the
moment am lacking the brain power to extend my limited conceptual
familiarization with
parallax to a compass. Please contribute some regular sized words on the
subject.
Now I am really concerned that I am more than a little uninformed because I
cannot
imagine what wind has to do with recording compass errors on a card. Maybe
the wind is
gusty and rocking the airplane and the compass? Or, of course, it could be
blowing
magnetic particles that I don't know about. But again, I need some regular
sized words
on this one too - how does wind affect magnetic compass calibration?
That must be a matter of flying technique. You don't even bother with a
compass when
you have a DG, IFR or VFR. You only need the compass to set the DG.
Of course, this might be a matter of procedure you do on an exam. Been a
long time for
me and it hasn't been an issue on any BFR that I have taken. That too could
be my
fault since BFR's are usually dominated by my questions and pleas for
current best
practice. The instructors usually enjoy telling you and showing you what
they know
more than anything else so maybe I have side tracked them all over the last
35 years.
I've managed to successfully have the medical examiners keep probing fingers
to
themselves every time too so I might be pushing my luck.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt
as
the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must
not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts,
we
must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts,
in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from
wasting the labor of the people, under the pretense of caring for them, they
will be happy.
-- Thomas Jefferson
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Before you get into that situation you should do what the crows do... walk.
Seriously, you have a good point. The question is what accuracy is needed
and what accuracy can you use. If you get in a bit of a pickle a magnetic
compass accurate to maybe + or - ten degrees including magnetic deviation,
and other compass errors.
As a VFR pilot I know that things come alive rather fast as I start to lose
visual contact with the ground. I have set up IFR panels and know how
everything works.... There's a lot of difference between the guy who makes
a scalpel and the guy who uses it. As you know trying to navigate while
still flying the plane can be, make that is more than a handful!
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Stokesberry
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:45 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
A compass could be useful when encountering very low visibility conditions.
Cecil
Kitfox IV 582 1050
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT
<paul@eucleides.com> wrote:
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, March 29, 2009 9:34 pm, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I was trying to get at two things... First of all most compass swings are
> not done anywhere near a compass rose.
I'm maybe forgetting something or just naive but that where I have done
them. On two
the compasses you had a little plastic screw to turn that would set the
indicator
perfect for north then south then east then west. You then updated the
deviations on
the compass card but they were all zero.
The other type compass had no such adjuster and you just filled out the
deviations at
each 45 deg heading change.
Then since the compass isn't stable and depending on your heading can
actually swing
the wrong direction when you start a turn, I have always used a DG as the
primary
heading indicator and set the DG to the compass with any applied deviation.
> They are expensive and time
> consuming to do and even when done correctly parallax errors can throw
> everything off.
I assume you mean they are expensive if you pay an instrument shop to do
them in order
to comply with some kind of inane rule. Maybe the compass police are
eventually going
to toss me in the clink. I'm just sort of a bad person, I guess. Some laws
just don't
seem to apply to me personally.
Now, I have a vague understanding of parallax error as it applies to a lens
but at the
moment am lacking the brain power to extend my limited conceptual
familiarization with
parallax to a compass. Please contribute some regular sized words on the
subject.
> There fore corrections are estimated by which way the wind
> was blowing the day the correction card was filled out.
Now I am really concerned that I am more than a little uninformed because I
cannot
imagine what wind has to do with recording compass errors on a card. Maybe
the wind is
gusty and rocking the airplane and the compass? Or, of course, it could be
blowing
magnetic particles that I don't know about. But again, I need some regular
sized words
on this one too - how does wind affect magnetic compass calibration?
> The second thing I was getting at is the magnetic compass is the last
> instrument used in IFR and other than to hold a heading isn't used in VFR.
That must be a matter of flying technique. You don't even bother with a
compass when
you have a DG, IFR or VFR. You only need the compass to set the DG.
Of course, this might be a matter of procedure you do on an exam. Been a
long time for
me and it hasn't been an issue on any BFR that I have taken. That too could
be my
fault since BFR's are usually dominated by my questions and pleas for
current best
practice. The instructors usually enjoy telling you and showing you what
they know
more than anything else so maybe I have side tracked them all over the last
35 years.
I've managed to successfully have the medical examiners keep probing fingers
to
themselves every time too so I might be pushing my luck.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt
as
the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must
not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts,
we
must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts,
in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from
wasting the labor of the people, under the pretense of caring for them, they
will be happy.
-- Thomas Jefferson
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
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It's interesting, Lynn, why the vertical card compasses don't seem to be
affected near as much as the whiskey types. There have been tons of posts
in the past 15 years on this list about swinging problems and many just gave
it up and paid the price for the vertical card or went another direction.
Perhaps it may be the range of adjustment available? Some have had good
luck with degaussers, but most couldn't overcome the magnetism in the
fuselage no matter where they place the compass. Some said it was caused by
the welding process. Personally, I gave it up and installed a 2" in-dash
Richie boat compass with a remote sensor. Works well, but not perfect.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
>
> I mounted my vertical card compass above the glare shield/panel, and in
> this location it is not affected by the airframe.
>
> Lynn Matteson
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Not in my 'Fox! I do have a compass but primarily use it to hold headings
to maintain visual tracks on the ground. Dead reckoning is fun for the
exercise of it but if I decide to deviate t all I really don't have time to
set up another navigation while flying the plane so it goes strictly VFR
follow the map stuff. It was suggested to me I get a set of road maps so I
could drop down and read the signs to see where I was... I don't fly that
low.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil
Stokesberry
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
I should mention that I don't have a DG.
Cecil
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Cecil Stokesberry <stokesc@wildblue.net>
wrote:
A compass could be useful when encountering very low visibility conditions.
Cecil
Kitfox IV 582 1050
On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Paul Franz - Merlin GT
<paul@eucleides.com> wrote:
<paul@eucleides.com>
On Sun, March 29, 2009 9:34 pm, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> I was trying to get at two things... First of all most compass swings are
> not done anywhere near a compass rose.
I'm maybe forgetting something or just naive but that where I have done
them. On two
the compasses you had a little plastic screw to turn that would set the
indicator
perfect for north then south then east then west. You then updated the
deviations on
the compass card but they were all zero.
The other type compass had no such adjuster and you just filled out the
deviations at
each 45 deg heading change.
Then since the compass isn't stable and depending on your heading can
actually swing
the wrong direction when you start a turn, I have always used a DG as the
primary
heading indicator and set the DG to the compass with any applied deviation.
> They are expensive and time
> consuming to do and even when done correctly parallax errors can throw
> everything off.
I assume you mean they are expensive if you pay an instrument shop to do
them in order
to comply with some kind of inane rule. Maybe the compass police are
eventually going
to toss me in the clink. I'm just sort of a bad person, I guess. Some laws
just don't
seem to apply to me personally.
Now, I have a vague understanding of parallax error as it applies to a lens
but at the
moment am lacking the brain power to extend my limited conceptual
familiarization with
parallax to a compass. Please contribute some regular sized words on the
subject.
> There fore corrections are estimated by which way the wind
> was blowing the day the correction card was filled out.
Now I am really concerned that I am more than a little uninformed because I
cannot
imagine what wind has to do with recording compass errors on a card. Maybe
the wind is
gusty and rocking the airplane and the compass? Or, of course, it could be
blowing
magnetic particles that I don't know about. But again, I need some regular
sized words
on this one too - how does wind affect magnetic compass calibration?
> The second thing I was getting at is the magnetic compass is the last
> instrument used in IFR and other than to hold a heading isn't used in VFR.
That must be a matter of flying technique. You don't even bother with a
compass when
you have a DG, IFR or VFR. You only need the compass to set the DG.
Of course, this might be a matter of procedure you do on an exam. Been a
long time for
me and it hasn't been an issue on any BFR that I have taken. That too could
be my
fault since BFR's are usually dominated by my questions and pleas for
current best
practice. The instructors usually enjoy telling you and showing you what
they know
more than anything else so maybe I have side tracked them all over the last
35 years.
I've managed to successfully have the medical examiners keep probing fingers
to
themselves every time too so I might be pushing my luck.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
I place economy among the first and most important virtues, and public debt
as
the greatest of dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must
not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. If we run into such debts,
we
must be taxed in our meat and drink, in our necessities and in our comforts,
in our labor and in our amusements. If we can prevent the government from
wasting the labor of the people, under the pretense of caring for them, they
will be happy.
-- Thomas Jefferson
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Ya gotta love that last line..
If your compass doesn't agree with the rose, the rose is probably wrong. :-)
One of the things with the Kitfox is the rounded cowl tends to make it look
like it is turned when straight and vice versa.
How much accuracy can you use on a magnetic compass at 80 mph?
When we did swings we would do north first then east then south then west.
You can gain minimal accuracy by doing it all again removing half the error
each time but a zero correction in any direction is rare if not impossible.
If you did get a zero correction I doubt it would be in a cardinal
direction. If you really want more accuracy get a flux gate digital
compass. Can you actually use more accuracy?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:32 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
Compass swing, I get thousands of readers finding this on google
http://cfisher.com/compass.htm
Simple
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Your compass is definitely too close to something ferrous in your plane. I
doubt demagnetizing the frame is an option as it's hard to demagnetize one
small area of it. I would go with an aluminium bracket hung from above the
windshield or attached to the glare shield. The more distance you can keep
between the compass and anything magnetic ( the frame) the better.
I don't think the Vertical card will be any improvement as it is still
basically a magnetic compass.
If you can find one of those small digital compasses that may work better.
They tend not to be so affected by ferrous surroundings.
Noel
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of teresa, paul
morel
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
Dave
I scanned through your article looking for what might be a solution to a
compass problem I'm having.
I have two types of compass and will only be installing one of them. I
have a common whiskey compass and a nice vertical card magnetic compass. I
really like the vertical compass so I made space in my panel to include the
vertical compass which would not only be functional but gives that "DG"
look. I put my panel together with all my instruments on the bench and all
the compass points were within tolerance as I rotated the panel around. (I
planned to make final corrections once my panel was installedin the
aircraft)
Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the installed
instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to swing way out. I'm
talking around 120 degree difference! After talking to some local pilots
and mechanics, I got suggestions from moving the compass to demagnetizing
the airframe to changing to the whiskey and mounting it on top of the panel.
Has anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to correct
it?
Paul Morel
912 Model IV Speedster
Locust Grove, GA
_____
From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:02:06 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
Compass swing, I get thousands of readers finding this on google
http://cfisher.com/compass.htm
Simple
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823
http://forums.matronics.cp; -Mcs.com/contribution"
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution<============
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Lynn when you are on the longer trips you have taken do you do a dead
reckoning navigation before leaving and follow the compass exactly or do
y9ou tend to fly the chart?
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
I mounted my vertical card compass above the glare shield/panel, and
in this location it is not affected by the airframe.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 9:41 AM, teresa, paul morel wrote:
> Dave
> I scanned through your article looking for what might be a solution
> to a compass problem I'm having.
>
> I have two types of compass and will only be installing one of
> them. I have a common whiskey compass and a nice vertical card
> magnetic compass. I really like the vertical compass so I made
> space in my panel to include the vertical compass which would not
> only be functional but gives that "DG" look. I put my panel
> together with all my instruments on the bench and all the compass
> points were within tolerance as I rotated the panel around. (I
> planned to make final corrections once my panel was installedin the
> aircraft)
>
> Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the
> installed instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to
> swing way out. I'm talking around 120 degree difference! After
> talking to some local pilots and mechanics, I got suggestions from
> moving the compass to demagnetizing the airframe to changing to the
> whiskey and mounting it on top of the panel.
>
> Has anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to
> correct it?
>
> Paul Morel
> 912 Model IV Speedster
> Locust Grove, GA
>
> From: dave <dave@cfisher.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:02:06 AM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
>
>
> Compass swing, I get thousands of readers finding this on google
> http://cfisher.com/compass.htm
>
> Simple
>
> --------
> Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
> http://www.cfisher.com/
> Awesome *New Forum *
> http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
> Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the
> truth
> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236823#236823
>
>
> http://forums.matronics.cp; -Mcs.com/
> contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/
> contribution<============
>
>
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Wake Turbulence in a Kitfox |
Vortice pic so some can see how it is .
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236870#236870
Attachments:
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
At 06:41 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
> Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the
> installed instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to
> swing way out. I'm talking around 120 degree difference!
>
>Has anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to correct it?
Yes, you have magnetization in the airframe. I mounted my
compass on the panel between the two fore and aft posts and found I
could only go in one direction, no matter which way I went! I rented
a de-magnetizer from Sacramento Sky Ranch (www.sacskyranch.com) and
demagnetized the posts, the firewall, and everything else I could
reach and the compass was perfect. You must be careful not to
demagnetize anything electronic, though, or the alternator. I took
out my avionics, but left the engine in place and worked only behind
the firewall.
On a slightly humorous note I was working behind the panel
one day and accidently grounded the battery hot to the airframe,
indeed one of the panel posts. I didn't think anything resulted from
my little arc-welding adventure until much later when I noticed that
once again my compass was fixed firmly in place. This time I was able
to demagnetize the post with a much smaller unit I owned suitable for
magnetizing and de-magnetizing screwdrivers and such. (Illustrating
that the frame's magnetization comes from the intense currents
induced during arc-welding.)
One more thing. When you swing your compass, make sure you
use a non-magnetic, (brass or bronze,) screwdriver to adjust your
compass. Mine was steel and drove me nuts.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
Message 23
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We went out for a nice quiet weekend in the middle of nowhere for some flying,
ice fishing and snow machining... Saturday The dang volcano erupted again and
covered us in ash while we were out on a ride. We pulled in to the trees and
waited it out till the ash quit falling then made a beeline for the cabin. Sunday
the winds came up and were forecast to hit 80 MPH so I cleaned the plane
off as best I could, pulled the radios and blew them out blew the engine off and
headed for home.. winds were up to 28 when I landed at the airport. I am going
to pull the engine down for a good inspection and to replace the crank seals.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236884#236884
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
On Mon, March 30, 2009 9:01 am, Noel Loveys wrote:
> The correct procedure for setting a compass is to turn the plane to Magnetic
> North. Zero the deviation in the compass using either a brass or non
> ferrous screwdriver. Engines should be turning at cruise rpm and all
> avionics used in flight should be on for all adjustments/readings..
> Turn the plane to magnetic 90 deg. And zero the compass deviation.
> Turn the plane 180 M and remove half the deviation on the NS corrector.
> Turn the plane 270M and remove half the deviation on the E-W corrector.
> Now you are ready to turn the plane to magnetic north again and start
> filling out the compass card.
You don't even need a compass rose. Explanation is nicely described in the link
that
dave@cfisher.com provided:
<http://cfisher.com/compass.htm>
If you have a DG then you don't need any reference lines at all. Further more,
if you
are able to adjust the deviation to zero in both the N-S and E-W directions, there
will be no deviation at any other headings.
So, given your proper preparation instructions and carefully heading either north
or
south on the compass and setting the DG to this track then turning 180 deg by the
DG
and take out half the deviation then repeat going 180 deg again taking out half
the
deviation. When there is none to take out, switch to doing it in an E-W direction.
When you have zero deviation in both N-S and E-W there will be no deviation at
all in
any heading.
> The parallax correction I mentioned has to do with the fact the line on the
> compass is on the glass several centimetres from the actual compass cage
> itself. From the left seat, lean forward and you will line up a couple of
> degrees higher lean back and you are going to read a couple of degrees
> lower.
Ah, thanks. I get it now. I just didn't visualize what parallax you were talking
about.
> The hardest plane to do a swing on is a float plane. If you do the swing
> while the plane is on a dolly you have introduced an error.
Should be easier than with a plane on land if you have a DG. Get to the middle
of a
lake, away from buildings and other possibly magnetic objects might be easier on
a
lake. A few people have observed that the compass deviation isn't noticeably different
from idle to cruise power so just moving in a straight line is about all you need
to
do.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Norman Mattoon Thomas (November 20, 1884 to December 19, 1968) was a
leading American socialist, pacifist, and six-time presidential
candidate for the Socialist Party of America. The Socialist Party
candidate for President of the U.S., Norman Thomas, said this in a
1944 speech:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But,
under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of
the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist
nation, without knowing how it happened!"
He went on to say: "I no longer need to run as a Presidential
Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted
our platform."
*******
"Barely two months into his Presidency, Obama is wreaking havoc,
crippling the nation, oblivious to consequences and monumentally
arrogant, believing the timbre of his voice and the manipulation of
the media will win public confidence until the socialist utopia he
believes in comes to fruition. Who knows how bad it will be in a
year, let alone four?"
-- columnist Lance Fairchok
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
~~Margaret Thatcher~~
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
I've got the chart open, (a length of removable colored tape applied
along my course) and the GPS on, and I use both. I also like to have
a Road Atlas, as well as the AOPA Airport Directory. The thing I find
the most useless is the A/FD...the Airport/Facility Directory, the
green book that goes belly-up every 56 days. It is the most current
of the printed data, but it doesn't contain the stuff I need, like
motels, eateries, points of interest, distance from town, etc. You
know, stuff you need to know once you're on the ground. Of course, to
be legal, the FAA requires you to have the green book, too.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> Lynn when you are on the longer trips you have taken do you do a dead
> reckoning navigation before leaving and follow the compass exactly
> or do
> y9ou tend to fly the chart?
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
> Matteson
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:56 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
>
>
> I mounted my vertical card compass above the glare shield/panel, and
> in this location it is not affected by the airframe.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> Status: flying
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: dang volcanos |
On Mon, March 30, 2009 9:36 am, akflyer wrote:
> We went out for a nice quiet weekend in the middle of nowhere for some flying,
ice
> fishing and snow machining... Saturday The dang volcano erupted again and covered
us
> in ash while we were out on a ride. We pulled in to the trees and waited it
out till
> the ash quit falling then made a beeline for the cabin. Sunday the winds came
up and
> were forecast to hit 80 MPH so I cleaned the plane off as best I could, pulled
the
> radios and blew them out blew the engine off and headed for home.. winds were
up to 28
> when I landed at the airport. I am going to pull the engine down for a good
> inspection and to replace the crank seals.
Leni - the photos are really dramatic. That last one with showing a track through
the
ash covered snow really makes the point:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0013_206.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0011_145.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0010_178.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0009_176.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04198_688.jpg
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors
to live at the expense of everybody else.
-- Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the
facts.
-- Will Rogers
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: dang volcanos |
To paraphrase the George C. Scott character in "Dr. Strangelove" :
"Geez, I wish we had one of them volcanoes."
And speaking of Dr Strangelove, I just found the 40th Anniversary
Special Edition DVD at my local Meijer's store. If you haven't seen
this "black comedy" you should.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Mar 30, 2009, at 1:36 PM, akflyer wrote:
>
> We went out for a nice quiet weekend in the middle of nowhere for
> some flying, ice fishing and snow machining... Saturday The dang
> volcano erupted again and covered us in ash while we were out on a
> ride. We pulled in to the trees and waited it out till the ash
> quit falling then made a beeline for the cabin. Sunday the winds
> came up and were forecast to hit 80 MPH so I cleaned the plane off
> as best I could, pulled the radios and blew them out blew the
> engine off and headed for home.. winds were up to 28 when I landed
> at the airport. I am going to pull the engine down for a good
> inspection and to replace the crank seals.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "C" / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236884#236884
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0013_206.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0011_145.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0010_178.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pict0009_176.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04198_688.jpg
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
I had always heard that you could check a water tower for the name of
a city, but in reality they paint the name on the underside of the
tower...the ball-shaped ones....and you have to be a ways away or
quite low to read them. It's best to have a pretty good idea where
you are on the chart/map so you have some idea of what the name on
the tower should say.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
> Not in my Fox! I do have a compass but primarily use it to hold
> headings to maintain visual tracks on the ground. Dead reckoning
> is fun for the exercise of it but if I decide to deviate t all I
> really dont have time to set up another navigation while flying
> the plane so it goes strictly VFR follow the map stuff. It was
> suggested to me I get a set of road maps so I could drop down and
> read the signs to see where I was... I dont fly that low.
>
>
> Noel
>
>
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-
> list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cecil Stokesberry
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:23 AM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
>
>
> I should mention that I don't have a DG.
>
> Cecil
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Cecil Stokesberry
> <stokesc@wildblue.net> wrote:
>
> A compass could be useful when encountering very low visibility
> conditions.
>
>
> Cecil
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Compass errors |
I've found that my vertical card does the "NOSE" .....North Opposite,
South Extreme....just like a whiskey compass does.
Speaking of compasses, I had once removed my glare shield to deal
with some more electrical work, and with it went my vertical card
compass. Also, I had taken my GPS home to download some flight info
from it. Then I decided to go flying to the Saturday morning "coffee
and lie-telling" session about 20 miles away. All of a sudden I was
definitely an "IFR" flier....following roads, lakes, and a large
smokestack that is a very good landmark for a small town near the
coffee place.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 10:43 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> It's interesting, Lynn, why the vertical card compasses don't seem
> to be affected near as much as the whiskey types. There have been
> tons of posts in the past 15 years on this list about swinging
> problems and many just gave it up and paid the price for the
> vertical card or went another direction. Perhaps it may be the
> range of adjustment available? Some have had good luck with
> degaussers, but most couldn't overcome the magnetism in the
> fuselage no matter where they place the compass. Some said it was
> caused by the welding process. Personally, I gave it up and
> installed a 2" in-dash Richie boat compass with a remote sensor.
> Works well, but not perfect.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>>
>> I mounted my vertical card compass above the glare shield/panel,
>> and in this location it is not affected by the airframe.
>>
>> Lynn Matteson
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Guy=0AI went to www.sacskyranch.com and researched degaussing the aircraft.
- I made the "magnetic field reader" from the instructions with a paper c
lip and thread and found it to work as indicated.- I found magnetism in m
y door post and frame.- It certainly is magnetic enough to throw the comp
ass way off.- I plan to use a bulk erase unit tomorrow in this area of th
e cabin to see if I can't correct my problem and let everyone know if this
is an easy fix or not.- Luckily the pane is not installed in the cabin ye
t and the degaussing won't affect anything.=0APaul =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0AFrom: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>=0ATo: kitfox
-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:06:38 PM=0ASubject: R
e: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card=0A=0A--> Kitfox-List message posted
by: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>=0A=0AAt 06:41 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
=0A>- Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the installe
d instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to swing way out.- I'
m talking around 120 degree difference!=0A> =0A> Has anyone else encountere
d such a problem and what did you do to correct it?=0A=0A- - - - Ye
s, you have magnetization in the airframe. I mounted my compass on the pane
l between the two fore and aft posts and found I could only go in one direc
tion, no matter which way I went! I rented a de-magnetizer from Sacramento
Sky Ranch (www.sacskyranch.com) and demagnetized the posts, the firewall, a
nd everything else I could reach and the compass was perfect. You must be c
areful not to demagnetize anything electronic, though, or the alternator. I
took out my avionics, but left the engine in place and worked only behind
the firewall.=0A- - - - On a slightly humorous note I was working b
ehind the panel one day and accidently grounded the battery hot to the airf
rame, indeed one of the panel posts. I didn't think anything resulted from
my little arc-welding adventure until much later when I noticed that once a
gain my compass was fixed firmly in place. This time I was able to demagnet
ize the post with a much smaller unit I owned suitable for magnetizing and
de-magnetizing screwdrivers and such. (Illustrating that the frame's magnet
ization comes from the intense currents induced during arc-welding.)=0A-
- - - One more thing. When you swing your compass, make sure you use
a non-magnetic, (brass or bronze,) screwdriver to adjust your compass. Mine
was steel and drove me nuts.=0A=0A=0AGuy Buchanan=0ASan Diego, CA=0AK-IV 1
- - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
====
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: - now Compass Card |
Have you heard of a magnetic tape degausser? I used to use one when I
worked in a sound studio, and you could erase a whole sound tape in
just a few seconds. You turn the unit on with a button, and then
sweep the unit over the magnetized area, slowly pulling the unit
further and further away from the affected area, before shutting the
unit off. This might work for such an application as degaussing your
plane...in sections of course. Maybe that's what you're referring to
as a bulk eraser.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Mar 30, 2009, at 7:18 PM, teresa, paul morel wrote:
> Guy
> I went to www.sacskyranch.com and researched degaussing the
> aircraft. I made the "magnetic field reader" from the instructions
> with a paper clip and thread and found it to work as indicated. I
> found magnetism in my door post and frame. It certainly is
> magnetic enough to throw the compass way off. I plan to use a bulk
> erase unit tomorrow in this area of the cabin to see if I can't
> correct my problem and let everyone know if this is an easy fix or
> not. Luckily the pane is not installed in the cabin yet and the
> degaussing won't affect anything.
> Paul
>
> From: Guy Buchanan <bnn@nethere.com>
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:06:38 PM
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: - now Compass Card
>
>
> At 06:41 AM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
> > Now the problem arose when I placed the panel with all the
> installed instruments in the aircraft and the compass began to
> swing way out. I'm talking around 120 degree difference!
> >
> > Has anyone else encountered such a problem and what did you do to
> correct it?
>
Message 32
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Jim,
You have received a lot of information worth looking into.. Take a close
look at the fuel pump. I have seen this a few times. Works great for
run-up, taxi etc... but not delivering what's required at the higher RPM's
during T/O.
Give a call if we can be of help.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Feldmann
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Near disaster
--> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
I had an engine failure on takeoff today. Fortunately it was a long runway
and it happened at 10 feet altitude. No injuries, no damage, and no idea
why it happened.
Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly
during taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or
so for incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short
periods. No problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for
the 5 or 6 seconds it took to break ground, then suddenly started running
very rough and dropped to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the throttle
to idle and landed.
While taxiing back to the hanger it ran fine, I tried full throttle again a
couple of times and it ran perfectly. So what I have is an intermittent or
one time problem that could be deadly.
I don't think it was ignition related, because if it was a failure of one
"mag" it would have run much better than it did, and if both failed, it
wouldn't have run at all. That leaves fuel or mechanical.
The carbs have recently been rebuilt. After I calmed down, I checked the
float bowls, they are clean, the gascolator is clean and the fuel pump is
putting out 4.5 psi., right on spec. Fuel is flowing freely through all of
the inline filters and the header tank is full. I did recently drain all of
the fuel out of the airplane to fix a leak in the header tank. Then I
simply refilled the tanks from the top. Could there have been air in the
fuel line between the header tank and the gascolater? The engine had been
run for half an hour or so since then, but mostly at low throttle.
I have checked the throttle linkages also. No problem there. The plugs
look good too, but my runups on taxi back would have obscured the evidence
anyway.
My A&E suggested that it could be sticky valve.
Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Any thoughts on what to look for?
I'm very hesitant to fly it again until I know what caused the problem
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236597#236597
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