Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:19 AM - Oil injection conversion (rawheels)
2. 07:11 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (Roger Lee)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave)
4. 08:09 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (rawheels)
5. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Near disaster (paul wilson)
6. 08:12 AM - Re: Re: Near disaster (paul wilson)
7. 08:12 AM - Fuel return line (paul wilson)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave)
9. 09:07 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (rawheels)
10. 09:18 AM - Re: Near disaster (Rueb, Duane)
11. 09:23 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave)
12. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (teresa, paul morel)
13. 10:03 AM - Fly on the wall...off topic (Lynn Matteson)
14. 10:44 AM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Tom Jones)
15. 11:22 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (rawheels)
16. 11:39 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave)
17. 11:39 AM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (jdmcbean)
18. 11:40 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave)
19. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Lynn Matteson)
20. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: Near disaster (Noel Loveys)
21. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Paul Franz - Merlin GT)
22. 01:00 PM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Lynn Matteson)
23. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: Heads UP - drag racing Kitfox Video (Randy Daughenbaugh)
24. 01:20 PM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Tom Jones)
25. 01:23 PM - Re: Oil injection conversion (Dave G)
26. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Near disaster (Lynn Matteson)
27. 02:51 PM - Re: Near disaster (JetPilot)
28. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Noel Loveys)
29. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Noel Loveys)
30. 03:49 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Noel Loveys)
31. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Noel Loveys)
32. 04:06 PM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Noel Loveys)
33. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Guy Buchanan)
34. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Guy Buchanan)
35. 05:11 PM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Dennis Golden)
36. 05:13 PM - Re: Oil injection conversion (akflyer)
37. 05:33 PM - Re: Re: Near disaster (Lynn Matteson)
38. 05:35 PM - Re: Fly on the wall...off topic (Lynn Matteson)
39. 08:01 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Jim_and_Lucy Chuk)
40. 09:41 PM - Re: Oil injection conversion (akflyer)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Oil injection conversion |
Is there a way to adjust/modify the oil injection system on a Rotax 582 so that
it meters at 100:1 instead of 50:1 at cruise?
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237363#237363
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Hi Ryan,
What would be your reason to change a very proven worldwide mix?
Thousands of people have played with the oil mixture over the years with the 582
with costly results. There are really good reasons for 50:1
I would stay with it and enjoy the longevity and reliability of the 582 at 50:1,
plus you need to maintain this engine just as the manual says to achieve those
results.
If you are thinking of using AmsOil at 100:1 then you will have excessive wear
issues and maybe engine failures when things like weather or other variables change.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237373#237373
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Ryan, I have to agree with Roger.
Rotax has spent millions on R & D - what make s you think you have a better idea?
Besides the oil injection when properly set up ( align the 2 marks on pump and
lever) You will get 50 to 1 at Wide open. in cruise you likely will see approx
65 to 1 ratio.
Stick with API TC rated oil and my preferance is Mineral oil and after thousands
of hours of two strokes alone I can tell you it works well.
MY last 582 was over 500 hours and not de-carboned at all. Still ran fine.
No need to re-create the wheel .
Kitfox movies here using Mineral oil in Rotax Engines.
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=8
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237374#237374
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
I really don't want to get in a debate over the advantages/disadvantages between
petroleum vs synthetic based oils. And yes, it is to run Amsoil. Does, anyone
have an answer for the 100:1 question?
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237376#237376
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
Yes what you describe is the equal of beaded lines. Good comment.
Paul
==============
At 05:49 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>I was referring to the brass fittings that have the smooth rounded
>hump, not the aluminum tubing to which the beading tool is applied.
>
>Lynn Matteson
>Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
>Sensenich 62x46
>Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>Status: flying
>
>
>On Apr 1, 2009, at 7:35 PM, paul wilson wrote:
>
>>
>>Proper name is Beaded tube end. Look in the catalogs and see
>>beading tools. Never use barbed fittings as you said. If you made
>>that mistake cut the hose off . Do not pull it off.
>>Lots of shops both auto and aircraft probably have beader in their
>>tool collection.
>>Another advantage is the beaded soft AL tubing can be hand bent to
>>point is a most desirable direction that a barbed fitting cannot
>>deal with.
>>Paul
>>========
>>At 12:59 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>>Another thing to keep in mind when running a fuel system.....if at
>>>all possible, use a "bulbed" fuel fitting instead of the barbed
>>>fittings. The bulbed (my term) type have a rounded hump that the hose
>>>slides over, and it is able to be pulled off without shearing off
>>>rubber from the inside of the hose. You might have to shop around to
>>>find them, but it's time well spent.
>>>
>>>
>>>Lynn Matteson
>>>Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
>>>Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
>>>Sensenich 62x46
>>>Electroair direct-fire ignition system
>>>Status: flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
If I am not mistaken the gascolator became history when the sump
header tank started shipping. All the is used with the deep sump
header is a final filter. or in many cases the filter before the E fuel pump.
PS, the deep sump header is highly recommended since its volume for
crud is far in excess of any gascolaror.
Paul
============
At 05:55 PM 4/1/2009, you wrote:
>
>My mistake, Noel. I forgot that the early headers didn't have a
>sump drain. In your case and others without the sump drain, then
>gascolator is a good plan. Of course, just my opinion and others will vary.
>Deke Morisse
>Mikado Michigan
>S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
>"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
>- Joseph Joubert
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:46 PM
>Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
>
>>
>>I don't know about your header tank but mine doesn't have a drip on it that
>>drains from the bottom. In fact my header has an almost flat bottom which
>>would be hard to put an efficient drip into. The gascolator on the other
>>hand drips forn the lowest point, and it is just about a point, in the fuel
>>delivery system. It has a glass bowl which is easy to inspect for any
>>sediment that may get through the finger strainers. And the header tank.
>>If any is seen it's easy to cut the wire and clean both the screen and the
>>bowl. Personally speaking I think the gascolator is a great, simple and
>>useful device to have in the fuel system.
>>
>>Noel
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:08 PM
>>To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>>
>>
>>Why the gascolator? Seems redundant to me. Your header tank is already
>>filling that square. The rest sounds good.
>>Deke Morisse
>>Mikado Michigan
>>S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
>>"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
>>- Joseph Joubert
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>>To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:24 PM
>>Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I think this fuel system setup will be best, and is how I plan on building
>>
>>>my Kitfox. I don't want to rely on a little gravity pressure to drive
>>>fuel through a filter, so I will not do that that with this system.
>>>Finger strainers in the tanks , then fuel lines to a T at the bottom of
>>>the airplane where it will go into the header tank. After the header tank
>>
>>>have the gascolator at the low point ( has a pretty fine screen built
>>>in ). Then from gascolator to the Electric Facet fuel pump, then to a 10
>>>Micron Stainless Steel Mesh filter the to the engine driven fuel pump then
>>
>>>to the carbs.
>>>
>>>Any thoughts and comments on this setup would be appreciated.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>--------
>>>"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
>>>could have !!!
>>>
>>>Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237226#237226
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fuel return line |
For those that don't follow the Rotax list, I refer you the the Rotax
archives for the discussion of the use of a fuel return line for the
9xx series of engines. Rotax installation manual now requires this line.
This creates a small error for those that use the flow meter fuel monitor.
The primary purpose of the return line is to lessen the possibility
of vapor lock and to assure equal filling of the carbs. Without this
line your insurance company has an easy out in case of an incident.
No service bulletin just an update to the install manual. which was
sent to us all that subscribe to the notices.
Paul
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
rawheels wrote:
> I really don't want to get in a debate over the advantages/disadvantages between
petroleum vs synthetic based oils. And yes, it is to run Amsoil. Does, anyone
have an answer for the 100:1 question?
Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice form two Rotax Techs.
I do like Amsoil , They help me sell new cranks.
So you win -- no debate.
Just the facts, Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237381#237381
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
dave wrote:
> Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs.
Thats great Dave. I really appreciate all the help you give us on this forum.
A engine that is constantly used always seems to go farther past TBO than an
occasionally used one. You could probably use vegetable oil with as much as you
fly. You seem pretty invulnerable to everything.
I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on the oil. I've never
heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other Rotax techs that say the
OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap. Who to believe? The one that will honor my
overhaul warranty if I use Amsoil.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237387#237387
Message 10
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Jim:
What was the weather like? Did you use carb heat? I am with those who suspect
carb ice. Under conditions of temperature and due point where they are perfect
for the formation of carb ice, it happens, and it can be rather fast to form
when the conditions are just right for it.
Talk to those who know your engine and its rigging for carb heat and be sure you
have the carb ice antidote figured out and installed.
Good luck, and good flying, Duane Rueb N24ZM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Near disaster
Jim,
You have received a lot of information worth looking into.. Take a close
look at the fuel pump. I have seen this a few times. Works great for
run-up, taxi etc... but not delivering what's required at the higher RPM's
during T/O.
Give a call if we can be of help.
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Feldmann
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2009 8:39 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Near disaster
--> <feldesign@earthlink.net>
I had an engine failure on takeoff today. Fortunately it was a long runway
and it happened at 10 feet altitude. No injuries, no damage, and no idea
why it happened.
Actually, the engine (Rotax 912 ULS) did not stop. It was running smoothly
during taxi and warm up. Mag check was fine. I held short for 5 minutes or
so for incoming traffic, running the engine from 2500 to 4000 for short
periods. No problems. On takeoff, the engine pulled cleanly to 5000+ for
the 5 or 6 seconds it took to break ground, then suddenly started running
very rough and dropped to 2500 rpm or so. I immediately pulled the throttle
to idle and landed.
While taxiing back to the hanger it ran fine, I tried full throttle again a
couple of times and it ran perfectly. So what I have is an intermittent or
one time problem that could be deadly.
I don't think it was ignition related, because if it was a failure of one
"mag" it would have run much better than it did, and if both failed, it
wouldn't have run at all. That leaves fuel or mechanical.
The carbs have recently been rebuilt. After I calmed down, I checked the
float bowls, they are clean, the gascolator is clean and the fuel pump is
putting out 4.5 psi., right on spec. Fuel is flowing freely through all of
the inline filters and the header tank is full. I did recently drain all of
the fuel out of the airplane to fix a leak in the header tank. Then I
simply refilled the tanks from the top. Could there have been air in the
fuel line between the header tank and the gascolater? The engine had been
run for half an hour or so since then, but mostly at low throttle.
I have checked the throttle linkages also. No problem there. The plugs
look good too, but my runups on taxi back would have obscured the evidence
anyway.
My A&E suggested that it could be sticky valve.
Has anyone experienced a similar problem? Any thoughts on what to look for?
I'm very hesitant to fly it again until I know what caused the problem
--------
Jim Feldmann, 3rd owner
1994 Kitfox IV Speedster / 912
Working on my Sport Pilot Certificate
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236597#236597
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Ryan, you have never heard of mineral oil? Well it is likely the most popular
oil for two strokes and after 35 years I have seen it all. Don;t get me wrong
as synthetics in two strokes do seem to lubricate ok , but where they lack is
on corrosion protection.
For the record I don;t use Pennzoil but I use mostly Bombardier XPS mineral oil
. It is API tC rated and if you engine sits for a few weeks or a month you don;t
have ot worry about corrosion. Now if you live in a dry climate then synthetics
will fare you better. Around here, no chance you would get the same protection.
You really never heard of mineral oil? Are you a real newbie? Come on you are
not serious ? We not talking castor oil here .
oh and if you are not in a dry climate you had better get used to using fogging
oil in your engine or be prepared for a shortened engine life.
Dave
rawheels wrote:
>
> dave wrote:
> > Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs.
>
>
> Thats great Dave. I really appreciate all the help you give us on this forum.
A engine that is constantly used always seems to go farther past TBO than an
occasionally used one. You could probably use vegetable oil with as much as
you fly. You seem pretty invulnerable to everything.
>
> I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on the oil. I've never
heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other Rotax techs that say th
>
> e OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap. Who to believe? The one that will honor
my overhaul warranty if I use Amsoil.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237390#237390
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
What does Rotax recommend for the 912?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: dave <dave@cfisher.com>=0ATo: kitfox-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 12:23:28 PM=0ASubject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oi
@cfisher.com>=0A=0ARyan, you have never heard of mineral oil?- Well it is
likely the most popular oil for two strokes and after 35 years I have seen
it all.- Don;t get me wrong as synthetics in two strokes do seem to lubr
icate ok , but where they lack is on corrosion protection.- =0A=0AFor the
record I don;t use Pennzoil but I use mostly Bombardier XPS mineral oil .
- It is API tC rated and if you engine sits for a few weeks or a month yo
u don;t have ot worry about corrosion. Now if you live in a dry climate the
n synthetics will fare you better. Around here, no chance you would get the
same protection.- =0A=0AYou really never heard of mineral oil?- Are yo
u a real newbie?- Come on you are not serious ?- We not talking castor
oil here .- =0A=0Aoh and if you are- not in a- dry climate you had be
tter get used to using fogging oil in your engine or be prepared for a shor
tened engine life.- =0A=0ADave=0A=0A=0Arawheels wrote:=0A> =0A> dave wrot
e:=0A> > Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs. =0A>
=0A> =0A> Thats great Dave.- I really appreciate all the help you give us
on this forum.- A engine that is constantly used always seems to go fart
her past TBO than an occasionally used one.- You could probably use veget
able oil with as much as you fly.- You seem pretty invulnerable to everyt
hing.=0A> =0A> I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on
the oil.- I've never heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other
Rotax techs that say th=0A> =0A> e OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap.- Who
to believe?- The one that will honor my overhaul warranty if I use Amsoi
l.=0A=0A=0A--------=0ARotax Dealer, Ontario Canada=0Ahttp://www.cfisher.com
/=0AAwesome *New Forum *=0Ahttp://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/=0ARealtime Kitfo
x movies to separate- the internet- chatter from the truth- =0Ahttp:/
/www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this
topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23739
=======================
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fly on the wall...off topic |
I'd sure like to have been a fly on the wall and overheard the
decision-making process at the EAA's publishing offices when they
choose the two pictures that accompany the article "Kitfox Classic
Return(s)" in Sport Aviation, and Sport Pilot this month. I wonder
what Kitfox Aircraft LLC thinks? How about it John? Would you have
chosen the orange plane to grace the announcement of the Kitfox
Classic, being as it doesn't really look like the Classic any more?
In the cowling area, that is....and the landing gear. Maybe a fly on
the wall at Kitfox Aircraft LLC could tell a better story. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
They probably just picked the best looking Kitfox 4 they could find.
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237396#237396
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Newbie? Yes. Don't get me wrong; I've grown up my entire life on our family's
airport, I am an A&P, multiple rated pilot, and have two aeronautics degrees
from Purdue University. However, I only have about 2 years flying behind a snowmobile/pwc
2-stroke. The only thing I've used mineral oil for is breaking
in a newly overhauled Continental.
There is one solid thing I do know about 2-strokes though, just about the entire
internet content relating to them is a huge debate about what oil to use. Guess
we can add this thread to the pile. I've seen synthetic, petroleum, blends
and even vegetable/castor bean, but I must have glossed over the mineral oil
discussion.
It does look like XP-S (synthetic and mineral) is generally liked by all, just
really expensive.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237400#237400
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
XP-s is synthetic
XPS is mineral oil and retail about 5$ to 6 a quart in bulk
you can buy Castrol super two stroke at Walmart in Canada for 4.25 $ a quart
they are both APIC TC Rated ( read the label )
Shell advance Ski doo oil as well avail for about 17 to 25 $ a gallon,
About the internet -- yup there is allot of Armchair captains, I do agree.
I can tell you what works for me and me group of a dozen locals here that fly with
out troubles.
I don;'t sell oil but the Amsoil sales guy does.
Dave
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237402#237402
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fly on the wall...off topic |
Lynn,
Being that was your aircraft... it is not the pic that was sent to
the EAA... Why they substituted the pic is beyond me...
Here is the pic sent..
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com-
"The Sky is not the Limit...- It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn
Matteson
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fly on the wall...off topic
I'd sure like to have been a fly on the wall and overheard the
decision-making process at the EAA's publishing offices when they choose
the
two pictures that accompany the article "Kitfox Classic Return(s)" in
Sport
Aviation, and Sport Pilot this month. I wonder what Kitfox Aircraft LLC
thinks? How about it John? Would you have chosen the orange plane to
grace
the announcement of the Kitfox Classic, being as it doesn't really look
like
the Classic any more?
In the cowling area, that is....and the landing gear. Maybe a fly on the
wall at Kitfox Aircraft LLC could tell a better story. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Danielle Sassvile's site tell you the best
http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_tips/rotax_feed4.htm
[quote="PMorel"]What does Rotax recommend for the 912?
From: dave
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2009 12:23:28 PM
Subject: Re: Oil injection conversion
Ryan, you have never heard of mineral oil? Well it is likely the most popular
oil for two strokes and after 35 years I have seen it all. Don;t get me wrong
as synthetics in two strokes do seem to lubricate ok , but where they lack is
on corrosion protection.
For the record I don;t use Pennzoil but I use mostly Bombardier XPS mineral oil
. It is API tC rated and if you engine sits for a few weeks or a month you don;t
have ot worry about corrosion. Now if you live in a dry climate then synthetics
will fare you better. Around here, no chance you would get the same protection.
You really never heard of mineral oil? Are you a real newbie? Come on you are
not serious ? We not talking castor oil here .
oh and if you are not in a dry climate you had better get used to using fogging
oil in your engine or be prepared for a shortened engine life.
Dave
rawheels wrote:
>
> dave wrote:
> > Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs.
>
>
> Thats great Dave. I really appreciate all the help you give us on this forum.
A engine that is constantly used always seems to go farther past TBO than an
occasionally used one. You could probably use vegetable oil with as much as
you fly. You seem pretty invulnerable to everything.
>
> I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on the oil. I've
never heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other Rotax techs that say
th
>
> e OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap. Who to believe? The one that will honor
my overhaul warranty if I use Amsoil.
>
>
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/ (http://www.cfisher.com/)
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ (http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/)
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer (http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237390#23739r?Kitfox-List" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-Lit;
> [b]
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237405#237405
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
Yes, your probably right, and I totally agree with you, Tom : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Apr 2, 2009, at 1:42 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
>
> They probably just picked the best looking Kitfox 4 they could find.
>
> --------
> Tom Jones
> Classic IV
> 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
> Ellensburg, WA
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237396#237396
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
We're both in the same boat... I didn't know the new headers had sump
drains in them.
Noel Loveys
CDN AME Intern
PP-Rec, Kitfox III-A
Areocet 1100 floats
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
My mistake, Noel. I forgot that the early headers didn't have a sump drain.
In your case and others without the sump drain, then gascolator is a good
plan. Of course, just my opinion and others will vary.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
> I don't know about your header tank but mine doesn't have a drip on it
> that
> drains from the bottom. In fact my header has an almost flat bottom which
> would be hard to put an efficient drip into. The gascolator on the other
> hand drips forn the lowest point, and it is just about a point, in the
> fuel
> delivery system. It has a glass bowl which is easy to inspect for any
> sediment that may get through the finger strainers. And the header tank.
> If any is seen it's easy to cut the wire and clean both the screen and the
> bowl. Personally speaking I think the gascolator is a great, simple and
> useful device to have in the fuel system.
>
> Noel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:08 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
>
> Why the gascolator? Seems redundant to me. Your header tank is already
> filling that square. The rest sounds good.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:24 PM
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
>
>>
>> I think this fuel system setup will be best, and is how I plan on
>> building
>
>> my Kitfox. I don't want to rely on a little gravity pressure to drive
>> fuel through a filter, so I will not do that that with this system.
>> Finger strainers in the tanks , then fuel lines to a T at the bottom of
>> the airplane where it will go into the header tank. After the header
>> tank
>
>> have the gascolator at the low point ( has a pretty fine screen built
>> in ). Then from gascolator to the Electric Facet fuel pump, then to a 10
>> Micron Stainless Steel Mesh filter the to the engine driven fuel pump
>> then
>
>> to the carbs.
>>
>> Any thoughts and comments on this setup would be appreciated.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> --------
>> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
>> could have !!!
>>
>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237226#237226
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
On Thu, April 2, 2009 10:21 am, rawheels wrote:
> The only thing I've used mineral oil for is breaking in a newly overhauled
> Continental.
I think you don't realize "mineral oil" is standard refined oil. What you're thinking
is that for break-in you used straight mineral oil, non-detergent. Synthetic oil
is
extracted from mineral oil.
The most important consideration for motor oils is ash content. The lower the better.
That applies to both oil mix in fuel and oil for crankcase uses.
Bean oil (primarily from castor beans) is the third broad type.
> There is one solid thing I do know about 2-strokes though, just about the entire
> internet content relating to them is a huge debate about what oil to use. Guess
we
> can add this thread to the pile. I've seen synthetic, petroleum, blends and
even
> vegetable/castor bean, but I must have glossed over the mineral oil discussion.
Mineral oil is standard motor oil, all of it, except full synthetics and vegetable
oil.
> It does look like XP-S (synthetic and mineral) is generally liked by all, just
really
> expensive.
You pay a premium for close to zero ash content.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
VILLAGE IDIOTS
Stop debating? But that's what science is: "The scientific community
has gone through this chapter and verse. We have long since passed
the time when we should pretend this is a 'on the one hand, on the
other hand' issue. It's not a matter of theory or conjecture, for
goodness sake."
-- Al Gore
Blame Rush: "President Obama's a good friend of mine, and I'd just
like to think about him and, you know, I know -- you know Rush
Limbaugh and a lot of jackasses give him a hard time right now. They
always trying to divide and conquer the country. They've already
ruined the country, and now he's trying to save the country, and I
want him to keep his head held high."
-- former NBA star Charles Barkley
Maybe she actually gets it: "If you are just fed up, at some point,
just lean out your window and scream, 'I'm mad as hell,' 'cause
that's what's happening to me. I'm losing my mind, because I don't
understand why -- like they -- one of the things that I saw
recently, they have this whole thing about taxing 'the wealthy.'
Okay. Now, I don't mind that. I don't mind paying a little more tax
'cause I make a good living. But I don't want to get it coming and
going. I don't want to get the federal raised and then the state
raised and then the phone tax raised and then the television tax
raised and then the city tax. Back off me!"
-- entertainer Whoopi Goldberg SHORT CUTS
"[M]any of us are hoping that all those in power fail, because those
in power have a grating habit of being annoyingly self-righteous,
hopelessly corrupt, resolutely incompetent and completely apathetic
about the freedoms that they have sworn to protect. Embrace the
failure. It's patriotic."
-- columnist David Harsanyi
"Obama brags -- albeit dishonestly -- that he's only raising taxes
on rich people. Ninety-five percent of the American people will get
a tax cut, the president insists. Well, which is it? Do the times
demand shared sacrifice from us all, or from just 5 percent of
Americans? If I say to 10 co-workers, 'We all need to chip in
together to get this done,' and then say, 'So, Todd, open your
wallet and give five bucks to everyone else in the room,' it would
sound ridiculous. But when Obama says the same thing to 300 million
Americans it's called 'leadership.'"
-- columnist Jonah Goldberg
"President Obama defended his plan for higher taxes on the rich. He
is determined to level out the distribution of wealth in America. It
wasn't historic enough for him to be our first black president, he
also wants to be our first red one."
--comedian Argus Hamilton
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
Somebody up there must like me! : ) I think they took so many of the
plane when we did our air-to-air photo mission, that they were/are
going to get their money's worth.
I saw that picture...N91KS...on the wall of the FBO in Laramie, WY,
in 2007 when I stopped there for fuel during my return trip from
California. It was signed by 3 people: C.O. Denny, Skip Calderquist
(sp?) and Patrick xxxxxxx? When I mentioned this at the time,
somebody named all three of them...can you add anything more, John?
The photo on the wall there has certainly seen it's share of sun
hitting it, and is faded badly....wanna send them a fresh one? It IS
a beautiful plane, as are all Kitfoxes...oops, now I'm being a brown-
nose. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 623.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Apr 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, jdmcbean wrote:
> Lynn,
> Being that was your aircraft... it is not the pic that was sent to
> the EAA... Why they substituted the pic is beyond me...
>
> Here is the pic sent..
>
>
> Fly Safe !!
> John McBean
> Ph 208.337.5111
> www.kitfoxaircraft.com
> "The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Heads UP - drag racing Kitfox Video |
I suspect that if the 912S had a little less pitch on the prop, it would
have gotten off the ground a lot faster. But then it couldn't cruise as
fast as it does.
A comment on converting a 912 to a 914 with a kit. The 914 has larger
bearings for the main crank shaft to handle the extra power. So I suspect
that the "kit'ed" engine would not last as long.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JetPilot
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:40 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Heads UP - drag racing Kitfox Video
Neat video to show the performance of two different engines, the 912 looks
like it was climbing about twice as fast as the 582... The ground run
looked about the same.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you
could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237234#237234
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
91KS was the first kitfox I had a ride in. In 1994 I went over to the old Skystar
to look at the Kitfox. I got a demo flight with Patric Redicker I think his
name was. We flew down the Boise River at treetop level. I was impressed.
Enough that I ordered my kit before leaving that afternoon.
I think that aircraft was sold overseas a few years later.
I used to have one of those posters but left it hanging on the wall of my shop
in Oregon when I moved to Washington. Do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237429#237429
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Long experience with two strokes has shown the best wisdom is to use the
ratio recommended by the engine manufacturer and NOT the oil distributor. I
watched a guy with an old and rare east European two stroke destroy his
motor using 50:1 where the original ratio was recommended at 20:1.
----- Original Message -----
From: "rawheels" <rawheels@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 7:18 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Oil injection conversion
>
> Is there a way to adjust/modify the oil injection system on a Rotax 582 so
> that it meters at 100:1 instead of 50:1 at cruise?
>
> --------
> Ryan Wheeler
> Kitfox IV-1200
> Indianapolis, IN
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237363#237363
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
Mine does, plus the outlet for the fuel going to the engine is about
one inch or more up from the bottom of the header tank. Hell, I could
go a year without sumping the tank, but I won't.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 623.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Apr 2, 2009, at 6:02 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> We're both in the same boat... I didn't know the new headers had sump
> drains in them.
>
>
> Noel Loveys
> CDN AME Intern
> PP-Rec, Kitfox III-A
> Areocet 1100 floats
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of fox5flyer
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 11:26 PM
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>
> My mistake, Noel. I forgot that the early headers didn't have a
> sump drain.
>
> In your case and others without the sump drain, then gascolator is
> a good
> plan. Of course, just my opinion and others will vary.
> Deke Morisse
> Mikado Michigan
> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
> progress."
> - Joseph Joubert
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 10:46 PM
> Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>
>
>> <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
>>
>> I don't know about your header tank but mine doesn't have a drip
>> on it
>> that
>> drains from the bottom. In fact my header has an almost flat
>> bottom which
>> would be hard to put an efficient drip into. The gascolator on
>> the other
>> hand drips forn the lowest point, and it is just about a point, in
>> the
>> fuel
>> delivery system. It has a glass bowl which is easy to inspect for
>> any
>> sediment that may get through the finger strainers. And the header
>> tank.
>> If any is seen it's easy to cut the wire and clean both the screen
>> and the
>> bowl. Personally speaking I think the gascolator is a great,
>> simple and
>> useful device to have in the fuel system.
>>
>> Noel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> fox5flyer
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:08 PM
>> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>>
>> <fox5flyer@idealwifi.net>
>>
>> Why the gascolator? Seems redundant to me. Your header tank is
>> already
>> filling that square. The rest sounds good.
>> Deke Morisse
>> Mikado Michigan
>> S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
>> "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
>> progress."
>> - Joseph Joubert
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>> To: <kitfox-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:24 PM
>> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Near disaster
>>
>>
>>> <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> I think this fuel system setup will be best, and is how I plan on
>>> building
>>
>>> my Kitfox. I don't want to rely on a little gravity pressure to
>>> drive
>>> fuel through a filter, so I will not do that that with this system.
>>> Finger strainers in the tanks , then fuel lines to a T at the
>>> bottom of
>>> the airplane where it will go into the header tank. After the
>>> header
>>> tank
>>
>>> have the gascolator at the low point ( has a pretty fine screen
>>> built
>>> in ). Then from gascolator to the Electric Facet fuel pump, then
>>> to a 10
>>> Micron Stainless Steel Mesh filter the to the engine driven fuel
>>> pump
>>> then
>>
>>> to the carbs.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts and comments on this setup would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> --------
>>> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
>>> as you
>>> could have !!!
>>>
>>> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237226#237226
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
Thanks for all the good advice everyone.
I never heard about not using the barbed fuel fittings, and I always hate trying
to get the fuel hose off those things ! I will be buying the bulbed fittings
from now on. Thanks for all the other advice, it gives me a lot to consider
before building my fuel system. I presently use aeroquip 606 hose with firesleeve,
I'm torn between that and the High Pressure auto fuel line which is made
for auto fuel... Whichever one I use it will have firesleeve all the way to
the header tank.
Do you guys use fuel shutoff valves ? Where do you put them and what brand of
shutoff valve is best for auto fuel and 100 LL that I will be forced to use on
cross country flights ?
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237439#237439
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
I though the injector was variable. Giving around a 40:1 mix at idle and a
70:1 mix at cruise
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Lee
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion
Hi Ryan,
What would be your reason to change a very proven worldwide mix?
Thousands of people have played with the oil mixture over the years with the
582 with costly results. There are really good reasons for 50:1
I would stay with it and enjoy the longevity and reliability of the 582 at
50:1, plus you need to maintain this engine just as the manual says to
achieve those results.
If you are thinking of using AmsOil at 100:1 then you will have excessive
wear issues and maybe engine failures when things like weather or other
variables change.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Service Center
520-574-1080
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237373#237373
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
As Dave mentioned there is the calibration on the injector pump. I thought
as the rpm increased the mix ratio increased. 40:1 low Rpm to 70:1 high
rpm. My understanding is this occurred because the quantity of fuel through
the base is much higher at high rpm the injector slows down a bit to give a
consistent usage per hour. Dave says different and I must bow to his
superior practical knowledge on this one. Never the less I'm sure if you
really want to you can adjust the arm of the injector pump to give a higher
mix ratio. Even with the synthetic oil I'd be particularly careful about
messing around with mix ratios. Amsoil themselves specify a 50:1 injection
ratio. Rotax also asks for a 50:1 for premix. I expect you are bucking a
trend and possible walking a tight rope here.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rawheels
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:36 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion
dave wrote:
> Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs.
Thats great Dave. I really appreciate all the help you give us on this
forum. A engine that is constantly used always seems to go farther past TBO
than an occasionally used one. You could probably use vegetable oil with as
much as you fly. You seem pretty invulnerable to everything.
I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on the oil. I've
never heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other Rotax techs that
say the OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap. Who to believe? The one that
will honor my overhaul warranty if I use Amsoil.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237387#237387
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
XPS is made by the guys who made the engine .... 'nuff said.
What I learned in technical school is synthetic oils typically have lower
ash content and a lot more range of viscosity. Unfortunately some of them
are so slippery they will actually drip off parts completely leaving them
prone to corrosion. They are supposed to be great for people who use the
engines every day.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:53 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion
Ryan, you have never heard of mineral oil? Well it is likely the most
popular oil for two strokes and after 35 years I have seen it all. Don;t
get me wrong as synthetics in two strokes do seem to lubricate ok , but
where they lack is on corrosion protection.
For the record I don;t use Pennzoil but I use mostly Bombardier XPS mineral
oil . It is API tC rated and if you engine sits for a few weeks or a month
you don;t have ot worry about corrosion. Now if you live in a dry climate
then synthetics will fare you better. Around here, no chance you would get
the same protection.
You really never heard of mineral oil? Are you a real newbie? Come on you
are not serious ? We not talking castor oil here .
oh and if you are not in a dry climate you had better get used to using
fogging oil in your engine or be prepared for a shortened engine life.
Dave
rawheels wrote:
>
> dave wrote:
> > Oddly enough Ryan you just got advice from two Rotax Techs.
>
>
> Thats great Dave. I really appreciate all the help you give us on this
forum. A engine that is constantly used always seems to go farther past TBO
than an occasionally used one. You could probably use vegetable oil with as
much as you fly. You seem pretty invulnerable to everything.
>
> I wasn't trying to imply that I didn't value your opinion on the oil.
I've never heard of using mineral oil, but I've got two other Rotax techs
that say th
>
> e OEM recommended Pennzoil is crap. Who to believe? The one that will
honor my overhaul warranty if I use Amsoil.
--------
Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada
http://www.cfisher.com/
Awesome *New Forum *
http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237390#237390
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
XPS is just about the cheapest two stroke oil we can get here... It's the
only one sold in bulk. In this neck of the woods if you want Amsoil bring
money!
As to a huge debate over engine oils... When it comes to two strokes I
think people feel closer to their oil than to their wives. They are
certainly a lot more protective and choosy about their oil!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rawheels
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 3:51 PM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion
Newbie? Yes. Don't get me wrong; I've grown up my entire life on our
family's airport, I am an A&P, multiple rated pilot, and have two
aeronautics degrees from Purdue University. However, I only have about 2
years flying behind a snowmobile/pwc 2-stroke. The only thing I've used
mineral oil for is breaking in a newly overhauled Continental.
There is one solid thing I do know about 2-strokes though, just about the
entire internet content relating to them is a huge debate about what oil to
use. Guess we can add this thread to the pile. I've seen synthetic,
petroleum, blends and even vegetable/castor bean, but I must have glossed
over the mineral oil discussion.
It does look like XP-S (synthetic and mineral) is generally liked by all,
just really expensive.
--------
Ryan Wheeler
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237400#237400
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| Subject: | Fly on the wall...off topic |
A little longer wing and colour matched floats and I'd be drooling....
Did I fool anyone??
That's one gorgeous plane!
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdmcbean
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 4:08 PM
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Fly on the wall...off topic
Lynn,
Being that was your aircraft... it is not the pic that was sent to
the EAA... Why they substituted the pic is beyond me...
Here is the pic sent..
Fly Safe !!
John McBean
Ph 208.337.5111
www.kitfoxaircraft.com
"The Sky is not the Limit... It's a Playground"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Kitfox-List: Fly on the wall...off topic
I'd sure like to have been a fly on the wall and overheard the
decision-making process at the EAA's publishing offices when they choose the
two pictures that accompany the article "Kitfox Classic Return(s)" in Sport
Aviation, and Sport Pilot this month. I wonder what Kitfox Aircraft LLC
thinks? How about it John? Would you have chosen the orange plane to grace
the announcement of the Kitfox Classic, being as it doesn't really look like
the Classic any more?
In the cowling area, that is....and the landing gear. Maybe a fly on the
wall at Kitfox Aircraft LLC could tell a better story. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 622.1 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
At 05:27 PM 4/2/2009, you wrote:
>I though the injector was variable. Giving around a 40:1 mix at idle and a
>70:1 mix at cruise
Nah, it's the other way around. It gives 50:1 at high RPM and 70:1 at idle.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
At 11:21 AM 4/2/2009, you wrote:
>It does look like XP-S (synthetic and mineral) is generally liked by
>all, just really expensive.
Ryan,
A cheaper well liked alternative is Pennzoil 2-Cycle for Air
Cooled Engines. It's now sold only in dinky 8 oz. bottles but is
still cheapest here in SoCal, even after shipping. It's a lot cheaper
if you can buy it locally. And the performance has been proven at
least adequate over the years in test and in use.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 300 hrs. and counting
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
jdmcbean wrote:
> Lynn,
> Being that was your aircraft... it is not the pic that was sent to
> the EAA... Why they substituted the pic is beyond me...
>
> Here is the pic sent..
>
>
I've got that one on the wall. I demoed that in Grand Prairie, TX in
1992 and got the poster when I ordered my kit from Sue Downs. It could
have been perfect, but the framing shop didn't do the best job.
Dennis M4 Speedster some day
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
We have been running the citgo sea and snow oil for 15+ years in sleds and for
the last 2 years in the 582. I normally go through ~ 40 gallons of oil a year
in the sled and planes. We tore a 582 down after 250 hrs using this oil with
no wear or carbon present. The oil sells for 12-14 bucks a gallon.
My sleds that use power valves normally have to have the power valves cleaned every
500 miles if you use the arctic cat power valve oil ( manufacture recommended).
With the sea and snow, I have not had one issue or needed to clean power
valves in thousands and thousands of miles. We have used them in snowmachines
for over a hundred thousand miles with no engine issues. ( various sleds added
up) and one sled I know of with 14,000 very hard miles.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237461#237461
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/citgo_sea_and_snow_647.pdf
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| Subject: | Re: Near disaster |
For valves, I use one on each down line from the wing tanks. Mainly
these are for servicing the filters which are in-line. I never shut
them off, as with them open, the wing tanks self-level. The valves
that I used are in the Grainger catalog (grainger.com) under part #
6DG45, Brass Mini Ball Valves, 1/4" female NPT. (I got the idea from
William Willyard, whose Kitfox was the first I saw fly, just weeks
after buying my unfinished plane.) I also use one as my main fuel
shut-off, and that one I DO operate daily/flight-ly, and it is
located inside my center console, using an extension handle to reach
it...the valve lies at floor level.
I am "forced" to use 100LL all the time because I like the idea of it
being free of ethanol, has a better track record (it is written) for
being handled more carefully, and because it is formulated (it is
written) for use at altitude. This is the kind of "forcing" that I
can LIVE with.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 623.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
On Apr 2, 2009, at 5:49 PM, JetPilot wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the good advice everyone.
>
> I never heard about not using the barbed fuel fittings, and I
> always hate trying to get the fuel hose off those things ! I will
> be buying the bulbed fittings from now on. Thanks for all the
> other advice, it gives me a lot to consider before building my
> fuel system. I presently use aeroquip 606 hose with firesleeve,
> I'm torn between that and the High Pressure auto fuel line which is
> made for auto fuel... Whichever one I use it will have firesleeve
> all the way to the header tank.
>
> Do you guys use fuel shutoff valves ? Where do you put them and
> what brand of shutoff valve is best for auto fuel and 100 LL that I
> will be forced to use on cross country flights ?
>
> Mike
>
> --------
> "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast
> as you could have !!!
>
> Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237439#237439
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Fly on the wall...off topic |
You'd want orange and white and black floats? Come to think of it, so
would I. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 623.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Status: flying
do not archive
On Apr 2, 2009, at 9:34 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:
>
> A little longer wing and colour matched floats and I'd be drooling....
>
> Did I fool anyone??
>
> That's one gorgeous plane!
>
> Noel
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
Being from northern Minnesota=2C I know that 14000 miles on a sled is a lot
of miles. Just for fun=2C I grabbed my calculator and divided it by 50 MP
H and that was only 280 hrs. If you use 40 MPH=2C it was 350 hrs. All of
a sudden it didn't seem quite the same=2C being that we expect our plane e
ngines to go 300 hrs with no problem. Jim Chuk Avids Kitfox 4 Mn
> Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion
> From: akflyer_2000@yahoo.com
> Date: Thu=2C 2 Apr 2009 17:12:58 -0700
> To: kitfox-list@matronics.com
>
>
> We have been running the citgo sea and snow oil for 15+ years in sleds an
d for the last 2 years in the 582. I normally go through ~ 40 gallons of oi
l a year in the sled and planes. We tore a 582 down after 250 hrs using thi
s oil with no wear or carbon present. The oil sells for 12-14 bucks a gallo
n.
>
> My sleds that use power valves normally have to have the power valves cle
aned every 500 miles if you use the arctic cat power valve oil ( manufactur
e recommended). With the sea and snow=2C I have not had one issue or needed
to clean power valves in thousands and thousands of miles. We have used th
em in snowmachines for over a hundred thousand miles with no engine issues.
( various sleds added up) and one sled I know of with 14=2C000 very hard m
iles.
>
> --------
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
> Soldotna AK
> Avid "=3BC"=3B / Mk IV
> 582 IVO IFA
> Full Lotus 1260
> #1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
>
> hander outer of humorless darwin awards
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237461#237461
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/citgo_sea_and_snow_647.pdf
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Oil injection conversion |
I dont abuse the plane engine anywhere close that I do the sled engine. I have
never run the 582 at 8200 RPM for 50 miles, I do it routinely on the sled. I
run them from 50 above to -65 just as hard in all conditions. If the oil not
working was going to show its ugly face it would have.
Just to keep it on topic, I can take a shot in the dark who is pushing you to run
100:1. He builds the engines and he sells the oil. I am dealing with a 532
he built right now... not as much fun as you would think.
--------
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1260
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009
hander outer of humorless darwin awards
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237484#237484
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