---------------------------------------------------------- Kitfox-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/07/09: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch (fox5flyer) 2. 05:38 AM - fuel tank venting (bob noffs) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: fuel tank venting (Lynn Matteson) 4. 07:22 AM - Re: fuel tank venting (Noel Loveys) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: fuel tank venting (fox5flyer) 6. 07:40 AM - Re: fuel tank venting (Bob Brennan) 7. 08:49 AM - Re: fuel tank venting (Lynn Matteson) 8. 09:29 AM - Avgas Stains (n85ae) 9. 10:19 AM - Re: Avgas Stains (fox5flyer) 10. 11:57 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (JetPilot) 11. 11:59 AM - Re: Oil injection conversion (JetPilot) 12. 12:09 PM - Re: fuel tank venting (dave) 13. 12:09 PM - Re: Avgas Stains (JetPilot) 14. 12:12 PM - Re: fuel tank venting (dave) 15. 12:23 PM - Re: was fuel tank venting, now airstrip talk (Bob Brennan) 16. 12:32 PM - Re: Re: fuel tank venting (Bob Brennan) 17. 12:33 PM - Re: Avgas Stains (n85ae) 18. 01:03 PM - Re: Oil injection conversion (rawheels) 19. 01:03 PM - Re: Avgas Stains (Lowlead) 20. 01:04 PM - Great Oil Debate (rawheels) 21. 01:07 PM - Re: Avgas Stains (n85ae) 22. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (fox5flyer) 23. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Avgas Stains (Lynn Matteson) 24. 02:18 PM - Re: Avgas Stains (steve eccles) 25. 03:47 PM - Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch (Ken Potter) 26. 03:57 PM - Re: Oil injection conversion (dave) 27. 04:00 PM - Re: Great Oil Debate (dave) 28. 04:39 PM - Re: fuel tank venting (dave) 29. 04:45 PM - Re: was fuel tank venting, now airstrip talk (dave) 30. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: fuel tank venting (Randy Daughenbaugh) 31. 06:58 PM - Re: Great Oil Debate (Noel Loveys) 32. 07:17 PM - gas tank venting (bob noffs) 33. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: Oil injection conversion (Michael Gibbs) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:32 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch With all due respect, Noel, not true. The standard continuous duty contactor that we use in our airplanes pulls nearly an amp and can put out enough heat to get quite hot, much more than "warm". Mine sure does and it's still working after 8 years. Below is a quote from the Aeoelectric List on Matronics. The reply is from Bob Nuckols of the Aeroelectric Connection. >Hi Bob, > >My principal concern has to do with the considerable heat generated >in the battery master contactor... >just wondering if there was a reasonable alternative. How is this heat a problem? The battery contactor generally draws about .8A after it warms up for a total power dissipation of about 12 watts. While this amount of power produces a marked temperature rise, it's well inside ratings for the materials used in fabrication of the contactor. When I was selling these things, I had a couple of builders want to return "defective" contactors because they were overheating. I had to explain that virtually all contactors of any size (50A class or larger) ran too hot to touch under normal conditions. This isn't a big deal when the alternator is running . . . you generally have the watts to spare. However, during alternator-out, battery-only ops, this .8A would run a couple of radios! It's a good load to get rid of. This was one of the drivers for the alternate feedpath to the e-bus that you see in our Z-drawings. So, if you configure the system to limit power losses due to battery contactor heating to times when you have the power to spare, the lowly contactor will offer you a good return on investment. Bob . . . Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel Loveys" Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch > > The relay coil shouldn't draw more than a half an amp...600 mW. They can > get warm but if they are coming anywhere close to hot then the internal > resistance isn't high enough or you have a starter solenoid. Power relays > generally after several hours of being pulled closed will only be slightly > warm to the touch. Never hot. > > Noel > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fox5flyer > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:49 PM > To: kitfox-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch > > > > Ken Potter wrote: >> Hi Folks; >> In preparation to take C-FJKP out of the shop and final inspection this > spring I've been running the electrical system whenever I'm in the shop > working--- master switch on, radio, transponder etc. running. Last > weekend > when I went to do an inspection before shutting down I noticed that the > master solenoid was very hot to the touch. Is this normal???? > > > Yes, Ken. When on for an extended length of time they can get pretty hot > which is why they should be mounted in an area that receives adequate > ventilation. Shouldn't be anything to worry about. Even a 60 watt > lightbulb will get hot after awhile. > Deke Morisse > S5 > NE Michigan > > -------- > Deke Morisse > Kitfox S5 TD > NSI/CAP > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238064#238064 > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:23 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting From: bob noffs hi all, what are builders doing to vent their wing tanks so they drain? one builder i know has a small tube sticking up and bent into the wind for a little''ram'' effect. is this necessary? wouldnt a small hole in the cap suffice? bob noffs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:35 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting It seems like a small hole would cause a vacuum inside the tank, and if it didn't lead to siphoning the fuel out through that hole, it might cause the engine to starve for fuel until the plane's speed was reduced until the siphoning action eventually stopped. My Kitfox, and all others that I've seen, have the "small tube sticking up and bent into the wind." Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 624.3 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 7, 2009, at 8:36 AM, bob noffs wrote: > hi all, > what are builders doing to vent their wing tanks so they drain? > one builder i know has a small tube sticking up and bent into the > wind for a little''ram'' effect. is this necessary? wouldnt a small > hole in the cap suffice? > bob noffs > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:09 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting The cap is generally right in the low pressure are of the wing when in flight so a hole in the cap will in fact cause a partial vacuum on the top of the fuel... If you forget to put the cap on you will find the tank empty in no time. The little ram effect tube is to overcome the slight vacuum in that area. That little tube should be checked before each flight to make sure it is clear and no insects have built nests there. Noel From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 10:06 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting hi all, what are builders doing to vent their wing tanks so they drain? one builder i know has a small tube sticking up and bent into the wind for a little''ram'' effect. is this necessary? wouldnt a small hole in the cap suffice? bob noffs ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:18 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting Well stated, Lynn. Those pitot tubes are there not only for venting, but to also provide a light pressurizing to the fuel system. As I recall, one of our valued past members (Don Smythe?) recessed his tank caps and vented the tanks similar to early Cessnas. Seemed to work OK, but he went to a ton of work to accomplish it. The system as designed works very well. Crappy weather in NE Michigan while waiting for my airstrip to dry out! Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynn Matteson" Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting > > It seems like a small hole would cause a vacuum inside the tank, and if > it didn't lead to siphoning the fuel out through that hole, it might > cause the engine to starve for fuel until the plane's speed was reduced > until the siphoning action eventually stopped. My Kitfox, and all others > that I've seen, have the "small tube sticking up and bent into the wind." > > Lynn Matteson > Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger > Jabiru 2200, #2062, 624.3 hrs > Sensenich 62x46 > Electroair direct-fire ignition system > Status: flying > > > On Apr 7, 2009, at 8:36 AM, bob noffs wrote: > >> hi all, >> what are builders doing to vent their wing tanks so they drain? one >> builder i know has a small tube sticking up and bent into the wind for a >> little''ram'' effect. is this necessary? wouldnt a small hole in the cap >> suffice? >> bob noffs >> www.matronics.com/contribution _- >> =========================================================== > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:02 AM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting Those of us that have the main tank under the cowling (me, at least) have a cap with a small hole which acts only as a vent. I suppose it works well because the big cooling fan at the front causes an increase in the pressure in that area. ;-) My "reserve" wing tank has the bug-nest tube facing into the wind, I am guessing without that it wouldn't drain at all when I open the petcock. In fact it drains extremely slowly when not in flight, so the tube helps the bad plumbing. Bad plumbing = Model II drain tube that goes from the wing tank to the floor and back up to the outlet of the dash tank, not like you guys with header tanks behind the seats. Without that "vent tube" I would probably need a pump. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lynn Matteson Sent: 07 April 2009 9:55 am Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting It seems like a small hole would cause a vacuum inside the tank, and if it didn't lead to siphoning the fuel out through that hole, it might cause the engine to starve for fuel until the plane's speed was reduced until the siphoning action eventually stopped. My Kitfox, and all others that I've seen, have the "small tube sticking up and bent into the wind." Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 624.3 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 7, 2009, at 8:36 AM, bob noffs wrote: > hi all, > what are builders doing to vent their wing tanks so they drain? > one builder i know has a small tube sticking up and bent into the > wind for a little''ram'' effect. is this necessary? wouldnt a small > hole in the cap suffice? > bob noffs > www.matronics.com/contribution _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:09 AM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: fuel tank venting If I recall correctly, Don (if it was him) had to run a vent line clear way out to the tip(s) of the wing(s) so that it/they would be higher than the top of the tank(s). And didn't this present a problem if/when the wings were folded? We got 3-4" of snow down here yesterday, Deke.....just enough to want to put the skis back on and make tracks in the snow, but the accompanying winds made me think better of it. Before I built the new set of skis, I wouldn't have thought of having the ordeal of putting them back on, but when it's only a 10-minute job, it's definitely a do-able job. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 624.3 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:30 AM, fox5flyer wrote: > > > Well stated, Lynn. Those pitot tubes are there not only for > venting, but to also provide a light pressurizing to the fuel > system. As I recall, one of our valued past members (Don Smythe?) > recessed his tank caps and vented the tanks similar to early > Cessnas. Seemed to work OK, but he went to a ton of work to > accomplish it. The system as designed works very well. > Crappy weather in NE Michigan while waiting for my airstrip to dry > out! > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT > "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but > progress." > - Joseph Joubert > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:50 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Avgas Stains From: "n85ae" Argh. my pilot side sight tube fitting started weeping, and I have not been at the hangar for a month. Leak is fixed, but I now have some nice light blue stains in the lower fabric, and flaperon. It's white aerothane (which YES will stain) Any suggestion for how to get the stains out? I tried an avgas soaked rag, but it only got out part. Thanks, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238164#238164 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:28 AM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Avgas Stains Jeff, you might try some typical car wax. If that doesn't work, try the type that has a mild abrasive in it that is made more for polishing old finishes (not rubbing compound). Swearing at it tends to help in many cases. If you run out of epithets let me know off-list as I usually have a couple in reserve for the real tough ones. 38f, windy, but sun is beginning to peek through occasionally Deke Morisse Mikado Michigan S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." - Joseph Joubert ----- Original Message ----- From: "n85ae" Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:29 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Avgas Stains > > Argh. my pilot side sight tube fitting started weeping, and I have not > been > at the hangar for a month. Leak is fixed, but I now have some nice light > blue stains in the lower fabric, and flaperon. It's white aerothane (which > YES will stain) > > Any suggestion for how to get the stains out? I tried an avgas soaked > rag, but it only got out part. > > > Thanks, > Jeff > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238164#238164 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:24 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion From: "JetPilot" rawheels wrote: > I really don't want to get in a debate over the advantages/disadvantages between petroleum vs synthetic based oils. And yes, it is to run Amsoil. Does, anyone have an answer for the 100:1 question? Two very knowledgeable people gave Ryan good advice, and his attitude was very clear by his above response... " I don't want to hear it, just answer my original question of how to adjust the mixture schedule of the 582 " What Ryan was wanting to do would have very likely resulted in him having an engine failure, so I posted an answer in a way that he needed to hear and would not be so easy to ignore like he did the first two answers he got. Maybe my post was not the nicest, but it was factual, attention getting, and effective. After 20 + posts in this thread with response by Ryan except that " I don't want to debate it ", it was time to make it very clear to Ryan what a big mistake he was about to make. So question is do you let a guy go out and probably hurt himself, or do you tell it like it is and get his attention. Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238181#238181 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:59:02 AM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion From: "JetPilot" JetPilot wrote: > > rawheels wrote: > > I really don't want to get in a debate over the advantages/disadvantages between petroleum vs synthetic based oils. And yes, it is to run Amsoil. Does, anyone have an answer for the 100:1 question? > > > Two very knowledgeable people gave Ryan good advice, and his attitude was very clear by his above response... " I don't want to hear any advice, just answer my original question of how to adjust the oil mixture schedule of the 582 " What Ryan was wanting to do would have very likely resulted in him having an engine failure and very possibly gotten him hurt, so I posted an answer in a way that he needed to hear and would not be so easy to ignore like he did the first two answers he got. > > Maybe my post was not the nicest, but it was factual, attention getting, and effective. After 20 + posts in this thread with no response by Ryan other than " I don't want to debate it ", it was time to make it very clear to Ryan what a big mistake he was about to make. So question is do you let a guy go out and probably hurt himself, or do you tell it like it is and get his attention. > > Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238182#238182 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:14 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting From: "dave" On the talk of airstrip , I have water filled roller. I never been happy with it . I am in the process of making a 8 ' wide 30" roller . Will fill with cement -- should be close to 5000 lbs. I got a few smaller wheel planes come in here and like it nice for them and the amphib float guys - like me . Kingfox Tires excel at most terrain. Never used much on asphalt so mine look fine. Glad to hear the Kevin might get more in. I shipped most of mine to Europe that I got from him. Fox5flyer wrote: > Well stated, Lynn. Those pitot tubes are there not only for venting, but to > also provide a light pressurizing to the fuel system. As I recall, one of > our valued past members (Don Smythe?) recessed his tank caps and vented the > tanks similar to early Cessnas. Seemed to work OK, but he went to a ton of > work to accomplish it. The system as designed works very well. > Crappy weather in NE Michigan while waiting for my airstrip to dry out! > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT > "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." > - Joseph Joubert > > > > > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238183#238183 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:26 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avgas Stains From: "JetPilot" Avgas leaves a beautiful blue tint, embrace and love your new colors ! Mike -------- "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238184#238184 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:03 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting From: "dave" Bob, I think you should have pitot tubes on each tank including your dash tank. I do and have over 1000 hours in this Kitfox trouble free. matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Those of us that have the main tank under the cowling (me, at least) have a > cap with a small hole which acts only as a vent. I suppose it works well > because the big cooling fan at the front causes an increase in the pressure > in that area. ;-) > > My "reserve" wing tank has the bug-nest tube facing into the wind, I am > guessing without that it wouldn't drain at all when I open the petcock. In > fact it drains extremely slowly when not in flight, so the tube helps the > bad plumbing. Bad plumbing = Model II drain tube that goes from the wing > tank to the floor and back up to the outlet of the dash tank, not like you > guys with header tanks behind the seats. Without that "vent tube" I would > probably need a pump. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238185#238185 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:32 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: Kitfox-List: RE: was fuel tank venting, now airstrip talk Dave - I use a culti-packer behind my tractor on my airstrip and I find it works better than the heaviest roller. In case you don't know what a culti-packer is - mine is two rows of heavy steel disks with small knobs on them, all rotating independently and about 8ft wide. I drag this up and down my strip after a rain when the ground is soft, the knobs push higher spots sideways to lower spots rather than compressing them like a roller. I've found it's the only way to truly keep a strip level and flat, and the grass healthy. Bob Brennan - N717GB ELSA Repairman, inspection rated 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop Wrightsville Pa -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: 07 April 2009 3:09 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting On the talk of airstrip , I have water filled roller. I never been happy with it . I am in the process of making a 8 ' wide 30" roller . Will fill with cement -- should be close to 5000 lbs. I got a few smaller wheel planes come in here and like it nice for them and the amphib float guys - like me . Kingfox Tires excel at most terrain. Never used much on asphalt so mine look fine. Glad to hear the Kevin might get more in. I shipped most of mine to Europe that I got from him. Fox5flyer wrote: > Well stated, Lynn. Those pitot tubes are there not only for venting, but to > also provide a light pressurizing to the fuel system. As I recall, one of > our valued past members (Don Smythe?) recessed his tank caps and vented the > tanks similar to early Cessnas. Seemed to work OK, but he went to a ton of > work to accomplish it. The system as designed works very well. > Crappy weather in NE Michigan while waiting for my airstrip to dry out! > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT > "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." > - Joseph Joubert > > > > > --- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238183#238183 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:32:43 PM PST US From: "Bob Brennan" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting You have a pitot on your dash tank cap? Is it the kind of cap that is above the cowling and you can fill without taking the cowling off? Mine is. I've seen some fillers under the cowling and I agree a pitot might help that. I know you have lots of pix - does any show a dash tank with pitot? Attached is a picture of mine - notice the cap is tilted into the wind. I also have had no problems with it the was it is, though not nearly as many hours! Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: 07 April 2009 3:11 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting Bob, I think you should have pitot tubes on each tank including your dash tank. I do and have over 1000 hours in this Kitfox trouble free. matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Those of us that have the main tank under the cowling (me, at least) have a > cap with a small hole which acts only as a vent. I suppose it works well > because the big cooling fan at the front causes an increase in the pressure > in that area. ;-) > > My "reserve" wing tank has the bug-nest tube facing into the wind, I am > guessing without that it wouldn't drain at all when I open the petcock. In > fact it drains extremely slowly when not in flight, so the tube helps the > bad plumbing. Bad plumbing = Model II drain tube that goes from the wing > tank to the floor and back up to the outlet of the dash tank, not like you > guys with header tanks behind the seats. Without that "vent tube" I would > probably need a pump. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238185#238185 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:37 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avgas Stains From: "n85ae" Deke - Tried profanity, but the color is still blue ... I'll try some polishing compound this weekend. If all else fails, I might just go over the noticeable part with a foam brush dipped in some some thinned aerothane and just hide the bad spot with a bit of paint. It's on the bottom of the wing aft of the fuel drain and only about a 1x3" area. the flaperon will probably buff out ok. I'll update after I've tried everything. I also know some Russian, and they have some really choice profanity which I'll use if all else fails. Regards, Jeff. Fox5flyer wrote: > Jeff, you might try some typical car wax. If that doesn't work, try the > type that has a mild abrasive in it that is made more for polishing old > finishes (not rubbing compound). Swearing at it tends to help in many > cases. If you run out of epithets let me know off-list as I usually have a > couple in reserve for the real tough ones. > 38f, windy, but sun is beginning to peek through occasionally > > Deke Morisse > Mikado Michigan > S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT > "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress." > - Joseph Joubert > > > > > > --- Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238188#238188 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:20 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion From: "rawheels" For anyone who does a future search on this topic. I did get an answer to the question from a couple of people that sent private messages: The answer is no. There is no known way to modify the oil injection system to run at a non-standard ratio, and not really worth risking it. If you are like me, and would like to re-install that system on your aircraft, you will need to find an appropriate 50:1 oil. Luckily, if you've made it this far, you already read plenty of good suggestions on alternatives. Or, you can search for the next post "Great Oil Debate". -------- Ryan Wheeler Kitfox IV-1200 Indianapolis, IN Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238192#238192 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:20 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avgas Stains From: "Lowlead" Of all the things I've tried on my white aerothane, the best results for removing the fuel staining was the Mr Clean Magic Eraser. I've tried everything from Simple Green to Lacquer Thinner. The polyfiber dealer here in SoCal named Norm Doothlit? (formerly with Ray Stits) suggested rubbing compound, but the magic eraser did a better job with less elbow grease. Unfortunately, nothing (yet) has completely cleaned the exhaust stains on my gear legs. Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238191#238191 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:57 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Great Oil Debate From: "rawheels" If you are thick skinned and willing to take a severe beating for having an opinion, please post what you think is the best, or best valued, 50:1 2-cycle oil. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238193#238193 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Avgas Stains From: "n85ae" I'll try that as well, thanks! Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238194#238194 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:54 PM PST US From: "fox5flyer" Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion I feel bad for the guy. He was new to the list and gets that kind of rabid response from a self proclaimed protector of pilots when he should have been given a welcome. A little courtesy would have gone much farther and he would probably stick around to provide some input of his own. He definitely has the credentials to do that. As it is now, I'd be surprised if he did. Deke do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "JetPilot" Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion > > > rawheels wrote: >> I really don't want to get in a debate over the advantages/disadvantages >> between petroleum vs synthetic based oils. And yes, it is to run Amsoil. >> Does, anyone have an answer for the 100:1 question? > > > Two very knowledgeable people gave Ryan good advice, and his attitude was > very clear by his above response... " I don't want to hear it, just answer > my original question of how to adjust the mixture schedule of the 582 " > What Ryan was wanting to do would have very likely resulted in him having > an engine failure, so I posted an answer in a way that he needed to hear > and would not be so easy to ignore like he did the first two answers he > got. > > Maybe my post was not the nicest, but it was factual, attention getting, > and effective. After 20 + posts in this thread with response by Ryan > except that " I don't want to debate it ", it was time to make it very > clear to Ryan what a big mistake he was about to make. So question is do > you let a guy go out and probably hurt himself, or do you tell it like it > is and get his attention. > > Mike > > -------- > "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you > could have !!! > > Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238181#238181 > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:45 PM PST US From: Lynn Matteson Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Avgas Stains This might be another reason to NOT use the drains in the wing tanks, but to plug those locations and use the header tank drain (if located low on the aircraft) as the means to do your sumping. It won't help Jeff's situation, but others might think about it. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger Jabiru 2200, #2062, 624.3 hrs Sensenich 62x46 Electroair direct-fire ignition system Status: flying On Apr 7, 2009, at 3:33 PM, n85ae wrote: > > Deke - > > Tried profanity, but the color is still blue ... I'll try some > polishing > compound this weekend. If all else fails, I might just go over the > noticeable part with a foam brush dipped in some some thinned > aerothane and just hide the bad spot with a bit of paint. It's on the > bottom of the wing aft of the fuel drain and only about a 1x3" area. > the flaperon will probably buff out ok. > > I'll update after I've tried everything. I also know some Russian, and > they have some really choice profanity which I'll use if all else > fails. > > Regards, > Jeff. > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:27 PM PST US From: "steve eccles" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Avgas Stains Jeff I had a similar situation only it was my gascolater leaking and I had a blue stripe the full length of the fuse I just kept wiping it down with an avgas soaked rag for a few days and it did come off , The only difference between mine and yours is that mine is yellow aerothane. I have tried to get the stains off my buddies wagabon with all the other suggestions (except magic eraser) with not much success. good luck Steve Kitfox V 0-200 N642SE -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of n85ae Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Kitfox-List: Avgas Stains Argh. my pilot side sight tube fitting started weeping, and I have not been at the hangar for a month. Leak is fixed, but I now have some nice light blue stains in the lower fabric, and flaperon. It's white aerothane (which YES will stain) Any suggestion for how to get the stains out? I tried an avgas soaked rag, but it only got out part. Thanks, Jeff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238164#238164 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:31 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Master Solenoid Hot to Touch From: "Ken Potter" Hi Folks; Thanks to everyone for the advice. I checked my receipt and the unit. It is the continuous duty 14 - 28 volt unit sold by Aircraft Spruce. I'm running it in a 14 volt system so it would draw a few more amps and be hotter than if it was running at 28 volts. According to the aircrafts amp-meter it is drawing about 1 amp. I will however check that their isn't any extra resistance in the connections, especially to ground. It is hot enough that I can only keep my fingers on it for 4-5 seconds when it has been on in the shop for 2 hours at 14.6 volts. This is why I've been running up all of the systems in the shop to; check for squawks before first flight later this summer. -------- Ken Potter Model II, No. 483 Rotax 582, C-Box, 98% Complete C-FJKP (marks reserved) Lanark, Ontario Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238209#238209 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:40 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion From: "dave" Here is the oil debate that I posted a few days ago dave Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 970 PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Oil injection conversion Reply with quote Here is more info on oils i compiled recently http://bit.ly/CyZWS The Great oil Debate http://bit.ly/1DRmB -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238211#238211 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:02 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: Great Oil Debate From: "dave" Ryan, I thought you was already oil injected? IF so the pump will meter your oil for you. If not then 50 to 1 will be the ticket. Any API TC rated oil should do you fine. If you choose synthetics then be cautioned that they do not offer the same corrosion protection as a mineral based oil does. But if you a nut like some of us your plane will never sit idle more than a day or two. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238212#238212 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:15 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting From: "dave" All 3 Pitot tubes for you Bob. btw I never saw an attachment from you. ? -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238220#238220 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/flying_0884_130.jpg ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:46 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: was fuel tank venting, now airstrip talk From: "dave" I never thought that would work that well. Mine rolls nice with water when still wet but later on in year it always gets a bit bumpy again. I was just out welding a bit more on it . Got to make a plate on ends of each roller tonight and load onto trailer and take to cement yard tomorrow. I think it will be about a metre total of cement that is just about 10% bigger than a yard . Once done I think likely 5000 lbs plus. -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238221#238221 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:33 PM PST US From: "Randy Daughenbaugh" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting Bob, That area on top of the cowling ahead of the windshield is a high pressure area. The pitot vent is not needed there. Randy -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:32 PM Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting You have a pitot on your dash tank cap? Is it the kind of cap that is above the cowling and you can fill without taking the cowling off? Mine is. I've seen some fillers under the cowling and I agree a pitot might help that. I know you have lots of pix - does any show a dash tank with pitot? Attached is a picture of mine - notice the cap is tilted into the wind. I also have had no problems with it the was it is, though not nearly as many hours! Thanks, Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave Sent: 07 April 2009 3:11 pm Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: fuel tank venting Bob, I think you should have pitot tubes on each tank including your dash tank. I do and have over 1000 hours in this Kitfox trouble free. matronics(at)bob.brennan. wrote: > Those of us that have the main tank under the cowling (me, at least) have a > cap with a small hole which acts only as a vent. I suppose it works well > because the big cooling fan at the front causes an increase in the pressure > in that area. ;-) > > My "reserve" wing tank has the bug-nest tube facing into the wind, I am > guessing without that it wouldn't drain at all when I open the petcock. In > fact it drains extremely slowly when not in flight, so the tube helps the > bad plumbing. Bad plumbing = Model II drain tube that goes from the wing > tank to the floor and back up to the outlet of the dash tank, not like you > guys with header tanks behind the seats. Without that "vent tube" I would > probably need a pump. > > Bob Brennan - N717GB > ELSA Repairman, inspection rated > 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger > Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop > Wrightsville Pa > > -- -------- Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada http://www.cfisher.com/ Awesome *New Forum * http://rotaxaircraft.com/forum/ Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238185#238185 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:37 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Great Oil Debate For my 582.... Bombardier XPS mineral oil... Its cheap ( in bulk), its API-TC rated, not just meets similar standard, it's made by or for the manufacturer of my engine and it's available at any Bombardier dealership. Just one thing I'm the exception to the rule... If anyone can show me a better oil I'll use it. In this climate corrosion protection is paramount. I have no loyalties to defend. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rawheels Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 5:35 PM Subject: Kitfox-List: Great Oil Debate If you are thick skinned and willing to take a severe beating for having an opinion, please post what you think is the best, or best valued, 50:1 2-cycle oil. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238193#238193 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:29 PM PST US Subject: Kitfox-List: gas tank venting From: bob noffs hi all, thanks for the feedback. i think i will make a trip to napa tomorrow for some brakeline to make my vent tubes from. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:36 PM PST US From: Michael Gibbs Subject: Re: Kitfox-List: Re: Oil injection conversion >A little courtesy would have gone much farther... True enough. JetPilot has been contacted off list by the moderators, so let's get back to talking airplanes. Mike G. Kitfox List Moderator ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kitfox-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kitfox-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kitfox-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.